Even skeptics.
Skeptics like to think of themselves as people of reason, people who value evidence and facts above all else.
I agree, that’s the way we should think.
Why is it then that so many skeptics think people who go to Christian colleges receive an inferior education?
Everyone has seen the Bill Maher clip now…….the one where he denigrates Liberty University………basically saying their degrees are a joke, worthless. (BTW, Liberty is an accredited institution)
Now……..I am a Bill Maher fan. I watch his show religiously.
But, on this matter……Bill Maher is full of shit.
Skeptics like to focus on the fact that Christian colleges teach creationism. Let’s assume all Christian colleges teach creationism. Does this one fact mean that every other class or course of study is deficient?
Where are the studies, oh we skeptics love studies, that show that a Christian college education is inferior to a secular college education? Come on skeptics…….just one study.
I thought so…..this isn’t about evidence or facts. This is about our disposition towards hating all things religious.
Outside of the science issue, what proof is there that a secular college education is superior to the Christian college education? Three of my children and my wife have taken classes and graduated from secular colleges. I have watched closely as they take their classes. I have read their syllabuses, looked at their textbooks. I have reviewed what was required of them to graduate from their respective college. I found nothing that would suggest that their secular education was superior to a Christian college education.
The truth is, education standards have declined everywhere, Christian and secular. Personally, I think a lot of what is taught at the college level is a colossal waste of time. The whole system is in need of a radical overhaul. Yet, skeptics tend to ignore the deficiencies in their own places of higher learning. Christian colleges, because of their religious beliefs, become easy targets for skeptics. After all, only uneducated hillbillies attend a Christian college. Many of them, curl lip, and with a slight snarl…….many of them were HOME SCHOOLED.
Ah yes, another dog skeptics love to beat. Skeptics hate stereotypes, yet they seem to have no problem using a stereotype when judging home schoolers. Skeptics have their anecdotal evidence of a Christian family that home schooled their children. The kids lacked social skills and were educationally deficient. Never mind that their anecdote is the exception to the rule. Skeptics WANT to believe that home schooled children are wallflowers and have the education of a third grader. This makes it much easier to dismiss Christians and their backwater religion.
Skeptics might want to take a long, hard look at the public school system before they start chucking rocks at families who home school. A couple of years ago I read a number of Comp 1 and and Comp 2 essays written by recent high school graduates for their college English class. The vast majority of the writing was atrocious. Terrible grammar and spelling. Many of them showed a complete lack of ability to construct a coherent paragraph. So much for the superiority of the public school system.
Home schooling has its faults. All six of our children were home schooled. I am well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of our home school program. My wife and I determined that we would focus on core competency, so we made sure our children could read and write well. We adhered to this philosophy: a child who can proficiently read and write can do most anything.
We knew that we could never provide the science education that a public school with a lab could provide. Instead, we taught them to be observers of the natural world. Yes, at the time, we believed they should be careful observers of the natural world God created, but good observation skills are valuable for theist and skeptic alike.
When our children entered college and took Biology they were at a slight disadvantage. I say slight, because they didn’t have the lab skills their public school counterparts did. However, their reading and writing skills were far above their classmates so this offset their lab skill deficiency. Again…..read well and you can learn most anything.
Skeptics need to judge Christian colleges and homeschooling according to facts. We live in an educational world where everything is judged by a number. How do home schoolers test out compared to their high school counterparts? In most instances they test higher, often significantly higher.
Now, I am not saying that every home schooled child is receiving a good education. I have met a few of the anecdotal stories that skeptics like to tell. Parents who have no business home schooling their children. Children who are illiterate. These are rare occasions and the whole home schooling movement should not be judged by the reprehensible actions of a few.
When one of my sons was in elementary school he had a teacher that had no business being a teacher. How she got a college diploma and a teaching certificate is beyond me. After three years, local school administrators found out she was not teaching her students to read and they fired her. Terrible story. Now, using the standard some skeptics do, I could conclude that the public school system is a failure. Of course, a good skeptic wouldn’t do that. The skeptic realizes that all this is one bad teacher, an anecdotal story that proves nothing.
Christianity deserves the criticism it gets but let’s be sure of our facts before we open our mouth or post the latest Bill Maher attack on religion to our blog, Facebook, or Twitter. Christian colleges and home schooling deserves careful scrutiny but let’s not forget our own sacred secular cows.
No, PLEASE don’t attack my boyfriend Bill Maher, Bruce!! ARGGGHHHH!!!
Believe what you like, dude. But my exeprience is he’s right on time. My wife graduated from Christian school and was there most of her life. She is BARELY educated. She struggles everyday to fit in and work in an educated world. And, the home school kids I have dealt with over the years barely had the intelligence of a rock; (depending on the Rock. Some Rocks are pretty sharp! Lol!)
Anyway, just my experience.
This isn’t about belief or anecdotal stories. Have you met public school kids that are barely educated and who have the intelligence of a rock? Sure you have. Again, anecdotal stories abound. We must take a huge step back, divorce ourselves from the anecdotal store is and look at the evidence. Are Christian school children and home schoolers less educated than their secular school counterparts? The evidence says no. They may not be learning the subjects we think are important but at the foundational level they are just as educated, if not more so, than public schools kids.
Granted, public schools have to take all comers and Christian schools can pick and choose. Home schooled children also benefit from a small teacher to class size ratio. So, there are some variable here that skew the numbers. However, Christian schools and home schools operate on thousands of dollars less per student, per year. If they had the same funding as their secular counterparts, I suspect their numbers would even be higher.
I think this is a blind sport for the secular community. In their love to have religion that appeal to anecdotes and stereotypes rather than evidence. In this instance they are far too often just like the Christians they criticize.
Surely, we can admit what they do well, while at the same time critiquing their handling of science and American history. Instead of cheap shots like Bill Maher’s, out time would be better spent improving education for everyone. The public schools and colleges are rife with problems and since they educate the majority of our children we should focus our attentions there. (and I haven’t heard a Bill Maher monologue on this)
Touché on the Public system (and, Bill should be talking more about the failures of it). But, they are doing a great job with my 5 year old, so far; (I’m keeping 2 of my fingers crossed
You’ve really raised many distinct issues here, and to address them all would take a lot of space. So just a few thoughts.
1. You’re right about Maher, that he was playing on and to prejudices.
2. I attended a Bible school for a year or two (can’t actually remember how long). I already had an undergraduate degree from a state university at the time. The Bible school was required training for Christian work I was going to be involved in, because I had not been raised in a conventional Christian home. I found the Bible-related classes very disappointing, since they strongly required that all argument be framed within a context of scriptural infallibility. This ideology drove the curriculum. Now it’s an interesting question as to whether equivalently central ideologies drive public higher education. My sense is that universities are not honest about such things. I’m mainly talking about the humanities here, where there’s room to massively skew things towards particular social framings–in science, I think there’s no doubt that public universities (I could say “secular” but that’s not really a category except as negatively defined) do a FAR better job. The imposition of scriptural infallibility on science renders it essentially useless, because it a priori eliminates the scientific method from the discussion. I think that’s what Bill Maher was talking about with his comment about getting the answers wrong being counted right. Does Liberty teach science with the same objectivity that Harvard does? If not, then where does one draw the line as to what the standards of education are and should be? When does the university fail in terms of curricular quality to such a degree that it no longer deserves accreditation? In the sciences, this seems to me a definite peril for some ideologically driven curricula.
3. As for home-schooling, I think we could so profitably benefit from a candid discussion. I really appreciate your bringing this up. To me, the biggest problem with home schooling is that it fails the social contract. It says I have so little regard for the standards and edification of my fellow citizens, of my participation in the commonwealth, that I am going to remove my children from the system. I honestly find it hard to believe that a rational nation would allow this. And of course this goes to the heart of many issues–what are our responsibilities as citizens, as parents, as families, etc.? Do you notice how rarely such things are even discussed anymore? I find it almost heart-breaking how the word “socialism” can be used as some kind of albatross to be tossed around the neck of anyone who believes that our duties/responsiblities/obligations as human beings extend beyond ourselves and our nuclear families. But personally, I really think they do, and for that reason primarily, I think home-schooling should be illegal.
The other thing about home-schooling that I very much object to is that it allows the decision that children are better off not engaging with people outside of the family. This is an obvious fundamental premise. What a sorrow to subject little human beings to. When I reflect on my own life, the real pillars that still stand out are teachers I had in elementary school and high school. Is it right to deny our children contact with the world? Honestly, and sincerely, it simply strikes me as positively abusive. I won’t go into the ideological aspects of this, you know them very well. Well, one: an ideology ALWAYS underlies home-schooling. So home-schooling basically asserts that a particular ideology is more important than my child’s participation in the society that it is his fundamental responsibility to be a part of. No sense to that. To me the biggest problem with all of the anti-”government” talk is that it fails to recognize that you ARE the government in a democracy, that whatever the government is, it is what it is as a result of your attending to YOUR responsibilities.
Enough.
You guys are right that not everyone homeschools for ideological purposes. Here’s an article on the youngest graduate of UW-Madison, perhaps ever, who was home-schooled! As was the current holder of the Guinness Book of World Records for youngest college graduate. I don’t agree that such exceptional people should be home-schooled, but I certainly retract my claim that ALL homeschooling is ideologically driven. http://bit.ly/KoCdON
Hey Rand,
On point two, I agree completely. I assume ALL teachers are ideologically motivated and driven. What fun is it if all we teach people are “just the facts.” College ought to be a place where people are taught to think.
Christian colleges are going to teach from the viewpoint that what the Scripture says is true. Of course, the science classroom is where this really comes into play. I suspect it comes into play in the history classroom too.
Your contentions, in general, about home schooling and socialization are correct, though it would be wrong to assume this is always the case. Due to the fact that their father was a pastor, my children were quite social. The learned to interact with adults and as teens preferred adult conversation to conversation with their peers. In retrospect, I think my kids were pretty mature for their age BUT I wonder if they missed out on some things because of their lack of interaction with kids their own age.
That said, I think public school kids, and kids in general, are over-socialized, and generally lacking in maturity. Again, the factors are many. College has turned into a 4-6 year extension of high school for many students. I am astounded by how few 16-25 year olds I come into contact with can not have a mature sustained conversation with an adult. Again, all I have to go on is my personal experiences. Perhaps too much time spent playing video games and having 140 character discussions?
I am in no way stereotyping young adults. I have met many fine, mature, articulate college students. However ,I have met enough of the other to cause me to be concerned.
Home schoolers tend to be driven by anti-cultural, counter-cultural thinking. Of course, all they are doing is following the Bible which is quite anti-cultural, counter-cultural. The Bible says Christians are to be in the world but not of the world. Home schoolers look at the public school system and see it as a tool of Satan to indoctrinate children in false teachings. Home schooling allows the parents to indoctrinate their children in the Christian way of life. It also allows them to keep their children from being tainted by the world. (though hall this does is “delay” the tainting)
This whole issue is quite complicated with many variables. I hope my post is seen as a corrective to some of thew wild assertions made by people like Bill Maher. (and I am a huge fan of his) I knew when I wrote this that I would really upset some people. It is easy for those of us who have left Evangelicalism to demonize everything that was a part of the culture we left. I know I did. As time passes, I try to look at things more objectively, with less passion. I am sure I still fail at this quite often.
Bruce
I agree completely with your thinking Bruce. I can tell you that my sister home-schooled 4 of her children for several years. The first until 9th grade, the second until 8th grade, and the other two through 4th and 5th grade. They all excelled and did very well after going to a public school. One is in grad school now, one graduated with a degree in finance, one graduates next week and the other one chose not to go to school but could have easily. Like your kids, they were all readers. It does really depend on the teacher, home-schooled, public or private.
Well, I can only say that in my city, the absolute best, top notch high schools are the five Catholic high schools. Superior education because, well, frankly the Catholics have been doing education for.a.long.time. No, I’m not Catholic, nor have I ever been, and frankly, we could not afford to send seven children to $10,000/yr high schools. But…I’m just saying….
I think that right now, we are in a flux over education. I don’t think we even know what “education” is any longer. Maybe there are different “kinds” of education that teach children different things. Maybe we should totally rethink what we’re doing and how we’re doing it.
As for homeschooling? I live in a largish city. Many, many parents I’ve known have homeschooled for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with religion, but rather the crappy experiences they were receiving in the public school system. No, I’m not knocking all public education, but there are schools that most people would not ever choose to send their children to. Homeschooling is an option that many have used.
Believe it or not, there has as yet not been any study that actually objectively examines homeschooled children’s academic performance. The reason is that the studies that are conducted using volunteer samples (most) are no good (for obvious reasons), and the studies that aren’t using volunteer samples (a few) compare homeschooled children to *all* public schoolers, rather than to public schoolers in the comparable demographic – white, middle class, two parent families, etc. Thus we don’t actually *know* that homeschoolers score better than public schoolers, despite your suggestion that we do.
Actually, I’m not sure I should have even written this out, because I just noticed your source for your assertion was HSLDA. HSLDA is biased, does bad studies, and can’t be trusted. They’re in bed with Christian Patriarchy and Quiverfull and are the furthest you can possibly get from objective. Using HSLDA as a source for this kind of thing is silly.
There are SO many contemporary issues that we all feel so strongly about, but when we actually consider what we really confidently KNOW about these issues, we usually have to admit that we know next to nothing, and it is our vague and impressionistic ideological sensibility that is guiding us. So it is with me and homeschooling, as it probably is with 99% of the rest of the population. Thanks for sharing.
No using HSLDA is not silly. Just because they are associated with things you and I have strong objections to doesn’t mean that their studies (and many of the studies listed weren’t done by them) are wrong. I believe I mentioned in the post some of the variables that might skew the studies.
My objective is this post is to provide a corrective to the the rhetoric coming from the skeptic community about religious schools and home schooling.
I always thought that freethinkers would be proponents of home schooling, just because it can be geared towards the individual, rather than sticking an individual in a “one size fits all” setting. The home school curriculum can be structured to the child’s strengths and weaknesses, as well as encourage the child’s interests far beyond what a public school could do.
You raise a good point out customization of an educational program for the student. I know when it came to reading we decided to allow our children great latitude in what they chose to read. As long as they were reading we were happy. Every one of our children have different reading likes and dislikes. Most of them were reading from the adult section from the library long before they were allowed to check out the book themselves.
When we had a Christian school we tailored the program to where the student was educationally. For a year or two we had high school students sitting in with the third graders for math. They hated it but that is where they were educationally. They hated doing the weekly drills………but they improved dramatically.
One of the problems I have with the public school system is the cookie cutter approach they use. Educationally advanced kids end up bored and kids who are struggling tend to be left behind.
My oldest son attended public school for 2 years. He always read well. He came home frustrated because he teacher would only let him check out library books that were at his grade level, This teacher was holding him back, though I am certain that was not her intent.
I attended an SDA High School for several years – loved it, learned heaps. But then the public schools I went to weren’t half bad either. It’s well known here in Australia though, that the private schools (church run) mostly do it better when it comes to education. Even my oh so anti-religion bro and sis-in-law have sent their oldest to the same SDA school I went to. It had nothing to do with my attendance, as they didn’t know I’d gone there till afterwards.
There were good and not so good teachers in both systems. It’s comme ci comme ca no matter where you go in life I reckon, and you have to make your own way through the jungle.
Very true. I know of some excellent Christian schools. Unfortunately, I know of way too many terrible schools, schools were academics come second to knowing the Bible. I saw a lot of this among homeschoolers. Kids who knew their memory verse but couldn’t diagram a sentence.
We homeschooled all six of our children, but academics came first. The religious part of our curriculum was very small. Of course, being preacher’s kids they got plenty of religious instruction outside of the classroom.