(Thomas Jefferson)
Rebellion is a common word in the vocabulary of Evangelical Christian pastors, church leaders, husbands, and parents.
The Bible considers rebellion a serious matter:
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. (1 Samuel 15:23)
Those who practiced witchcraft were to be put to death (Exodus 22:18, Deuteronomy 18:9-11) so it is clear that God considered rebellion to be a serious matter.
God commanded a harsh punishment for a rebellious son:
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them; Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
The Old Testament is the written record of how a Holy God dealt with a rebellious people, Israel. Page after page details God’s judgments against his people. (and those who got in his way)
When we get to the New Testament, the word rebellion is not used. Does this mean that God had changed? Of course not. How is it possible for a perfect God to change? Malachi 3:6 says:
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
The Bible says, speaking of Jesus:
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Hebrews 13:8)
It is clear that God is immutable. He doesn’t change. (though there are texts that seem to suggest otherwise)
The Evangelical Church is a sect that accepts both Testaments as authoritative. (especially those Old Testament verses about tithing) Granted, Evangelicals are quite contradictory in their interpretations of the Old Testament, picking and choosing what they want to believe, but they do say all 66 books of the Bible are authoritative.
And there is the key word, AUTHORATATIVE.
Evangelicals take seriously the matter of rebellion because they believe that Bible is an authoritative text and from the text they deduce an authority structure.
It goes something like this:
- The Christian God is the supreme authority over everything. He is the sovereign over all. He is the creator. He is in complete and absolute control.Even with salvation, no one can be saved unless God permits them to be saved.(both Calvinists and Arminians alike believe God is the final arbiter in salvation)
- The Christian God has established authority in the church. Under Jesus Christ, pastors (elders, bishops) are the head of the church. They have been called by God to teach, correct, lead, and direct the church. They are to initiate discipline when necessary to ensure the church is a pure, holy body. (though many churches have a pretty low standard for pure and holy)
- The Christian God has established authority in the home. Again, under Jesus Christ, the husband is the head of the home and his wife is to submit to his authority. Children are to to obey their parents and submit to their authority.
- The Christian God has established authority in nations. All nations are to bow to the authority of the Christian God. Their laws should reflect God’s law. Better yet, theocracy, God rule, is the best form of government.
The Evangelical Christian believes God rules over all. There is no King but Jesus and no God but the Christian God.
The problem here is that Evangelical Christians are human. Contrary to all their talk about being saved and sanctified, Christians are pretty much just like the rest of us. For all their praying and confessing sin they live and talk just like everyone else. Simply put, like all of us, they do what they want to do.
And that is a big, big problem.
You see the God of the authoritative Bible demands obedience. God expects Christians to implicitly obey his commands. All of them. God will have none of this picking and choosing that American Christians love to do.
So everywhere you look you have Christians in some form of rebellion against God, the pastor, their parents, or their husband. No matter how much they pray, read the Bible, go to the altar, and promise to really obey God this time, they continue to lapse into rebellion.
This is what Jesus told his followers in Matthew 5:48:
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
It seems Jesus didn’t lower the standard. God expects and demands perfection. God will have none of this “I am not perfect just forgiven” cheap grace Christianity. Jesus expects his followers to walk in his steps. Empowered by the Holy Spirit, they have been given everything they need pertaining to life and godliness. (2 Peter 1:3)
But, let me say again:
The problem here is that Evangelical Christians are human. Contrary to all their their talk about being saved and sanctified, Christians are pretty much just like the rest of us. For all their praying and confessing sin they live and talk just like everyone else. Simply put, like all of us, they do what they want to do.
The difference between the atheist and the Evangelical Christian is guilt. The Christian lives in a constant cycle of living right, rebelling, feeling guilty, repenting, and back to living right. This cycle can go one numerous times a day.
The atheist can feel guilty at times but since he is not encumbered by a long list of laws, commands, rules, regulations, precepts, or standards he is less likely to feel guilty. With no God hovering over him, with no pastor thundering at him, the atheist is pretty much free to enjoy life. He tries to live by the maxim, don’t hurt other people and when he fails he is likely to make restitution and ask for forgiveness from the person he hurt. No need for a God, Bible, church, or pastor. As a human, he has all the necessary faculties to be a good person.
What makes it worse for the Christian is that they go to church and their pastor reminds them, from the Bible of course, how rebellious they are. He points out their sin and reminds them that God hates sin. He rightly calls on them to repent.
You would think that people would get tired of all this but each week they dutifully return to church so their pastor can remind them about their sinfulness and need of repentance.
Children, especially teenagers, get this same treatment from their parents. When they don’t obey their parents they are chastised and reminded that God hates rebellion. But kids will be kids, as every parent knows…and in Christian homes it seems that children are either starting into rebellion or coming out of it.
Parents are commanded by God to beat the rebellion out of their children. They have a good example in God. Hebrews 12:5-10 says:
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
The Bible records how God goes about chastising rebellious Christians. He maims them, makes them sick, kills their family, takes away their possessions, starves them, and if necessary kills them. God goes to great lengths to make sure a Christian seeks after the “peaceable fruit of righteousness.” (Hebrews 12:11)
Here is how God expects Evangelical Christian parents to respond to the rebellion of their children:
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. (Proverbs 22:15)
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. (Proverbs 23:13,14)
Let me tie this all together.
An authoritative text from an authoritarian God establishes authority structures for the church, family, and nations. Disobedience to authority is to be be punished.
For those of us raised in this kind of Christianity (and all forms of Christianity have some of this, even liberal iterations of Christianity) we well know how this practically works out.The Bible, in the hands of God’s man, the pastor, is used to dominate and control people. Individuality and freedom is discouraged and, in some cases, severely punished.
Pastors remind the church of pastoral authority. Parents remind children that they are to be obedient at all times and threaten them with punishment if they don’t. Husbands remind their wives that they are the head of the home and their word is f-i-n-a-l. Collectively, Christians warn government officials that Jesus is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings and God demands they submit to the authority of God, the Bible and his people. (this is the essence of the theocracy movement in this country)
Some readers are likely weeping by now. Their mind goes back 20 or 30 years to a time when they were teenagers. Their parents considered them rebellious. Often their rebellion was things like listening to rock music, smoking, getting pregnant, talking back, having sex, or smoking marijuana.Their parents, needing to show them that they were in charge, sent them off to group homes to get their “rebellion” problem fixed. What really happened is that they were cruelly misused, abused, and debased. Years later their lives still bear the marks of the Godly “rebellion” treatment they received.
It is hard not to see cultism in all of this. I am sure Bible-believing Christians, people of the book, will scream foul, but the marks of a cult are there for all to see if they dare but open their eyes. Millions of people attend churches that believe the things I have written about in this post.
This is what Bible literalism gets you. How can it be otherwise?
The teaching of Rebellion may be the basic cause of why I finally broke away from Church (A/G background). I really grew tired of hearing how bad and sinful and fallen and rebellious we all were. I really tried to get this teaching to permeate my being but my being rejected it as it did most of the teachings. I’ve been churched 5th grade and I cannot tell you a time that I ever enjoyed actually attending – not a revival, not a SS class, not a picnic, none of them, not even as a child. I could never figure out the logic of anything…and I never saw anyone else try to figure out the logic either.
So…I guess after all is said and done…I have a rebellious spirit after all.
MIght Jesus be using hyperbole in HIs comment? He knows we are never going to be perfect, surely, not in this life. I don’t feel constant guilt as a Christian. It seems to me that the essence of the gospel is grace and freedom.
The church talks so much about justification by God’s grace through faith, but I think even our “sanctification” is about grace, and God’s work in us, not something we can do in our own strength.
I cannot imagine being in a situation of feeling guilty all day long, just waiting for the proverbial axe to fall.
It is little wonder people are running from church.
In the wolf and ape world, its authoritarian. Maybe we too have evolved so that we have to both wield and submit to authority?
It occurred to me as I was reading this post that you’re still a preacher, Bruce.
Of course now you’re trying to help a different group.
I once read that for every comment a person gets on a post that there are 10 people reading. I’ve found that true with my little blog, and others I’ve spoken to have, too.
So you are reaching people with a different type of good news… news that will actually help some be able to leave the cults behind.
This is a good thing.
I agree with Ami that Bruce is still a preacher but is now helping a different group. The bible is beginning to make great “sense” to me thanks to Bruce’s writings.
Ami and Michele are correct, Bruce. You help so many with your words. I can feel them as I read.
Your assessment is, of course, correct. All I ever wanted to do was live my life as I saw fit. That is, probably, how most of us are. As teens, our “rebellion” was simply choosing to not live as our parents or guardians lived. Of course, that made the old folks livid. I still vividly remember my mother saying to me, “as long as you live in this house, you will not only do as we do, you will think like we do, too!” I knew then and there it was going to be a long road.
“Rebellion” as it is called, seems to be simply another way of doing things. Kids see their parents ways and decide they are going to be different. This difference is considered defiance and is what got me sent away to be “fixed” (brainwashed).
As an adult, I realized my teenagers were simply having to explore the world on their own terms. They could see what they did and did not want to emulate in me, and that was fine. Why in the world would I want them to be little automatons? It still puzzles me that many in my generation were expected to fall into lock step within certain cookie cutter expectations.
Bruce, thank you. You have brought it all together beautifully.
Here is the issue for me, how is rebellion defined? It seems to me there is a huge difference between things like hard core rebellion “likened to the sin of witchcraft” and normal teenagers wanting to maintain their autonomy and independence.
It seems to me a problem of Biblical interpretation and common sense discernment. What is really “rebellious” about a teenager wanting to grow his hair, listen to contemporary music, or be with his significant other?
On the other hand folks I’m working this summer with a group of teenagers who are truly giving their parents a run for their money, some who appear on the road to serious deviancy that may end in jail time or far worse.
Of course, some of the issues are genetic or environmental. Some caused by abuse. But, in other cases, I think some positive, consistent discipline and structure, when these kiddos were little, may have made all the difference in the world. Discipline and authority are not all bad. It’s the misuse and abuse of these things that I would view as the problem.
How does the Bible define rebellion?
The rebellious son that was stoned to death was a drunkard.
The rebellious Uzzah touched rhe ark of the covenant and God killed him.
The rebellious Israelites murmured and God killed them.
The rebellious wife of Lot looked in the wrong direction and God killed her.
The rebellious Annanias and Saphria lied about some land they sold and God killed them.
Shall I go on?
I was thinking more of this in the context of parenting children, and the ability to discern if a child is being truly rebellious or simply displaying normal development.
But, Bruce, the verses you cited do raise another question.
As a former pastor, how did you relate these passages of Scripture with other verses that speak of the the Lord being slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and mercy, or that he remembers our frame, and knows that we are dust..Scripture also commands parents to not provoke their children to wrath..
In the Anglican tradition, and among Lutherans also, our focus is very incarnational. You’ve have often asked what is my hermaneutic? It is always to center in the light of God’s love expressed in Christ, and to interpret and apply Scripture in that context.
Our faith is not just tied up with a literalistic, inerrant view of the Bible, but also is based in the independent witness of certain of the church fathers relating to the incarnation and resurrection of the Lord. To give an example,
It is recorded by Irenaeus, that Polycarp who heard him speak in his youth, and by Tertullian, that
he had been a disciple of John the Apostle.
Well, getting back to these verses. They certainly sound harsh and inexplicable to my ears. But, they are written and coming from a very different time and culture. I’m willing to reserve my opinion in this, and simply trust God.
It does seem to me a deliberate choice.
So, let me sum up your view. Yes, I don’t like what these verses say so I am going to ignore them or explain them away.
I could has listed a hundred more. How many does it take Grace before your view of God changes? Of course this is the real issue. You have determined, like all other Christians, what kind of God you want, and you ignore any data that suggests your version of God is wrong or skewed.
Either the Bible matters or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, if it always has be qualified, why bother? Why not just let the Bible speak for itself? The stories I mentioned? They mean what they say. There is no way to explain around them. You are free to “trust” God but it doesn’t change what the text says.
Bruce, This article really hit a chord with me today. The whole premise that I should feel guilty just because I was born into a sinful world, one that God ~ who is perfect~ created causes me much distress. I have no reason to believe that a God would create us just to punish us.
Grace, there is a huge difference between rebellion and those who are acting out due to trauma in their lives. Seriously, try to explain to your child that she was sexually abused because God allowed it to happen and his will must be accepted AND PRAISED. That house of cards you stand on will collapse quickly.
I agree Mandi. It is never God’s will for kids to be sexually abused. I think someone who tells this to a child has deep problems and issues themselves.
Grace, i replied to quick. When you are having that conversation with your child, also try to explain to them why they must forgive and love that person who caused them much harm and violated their trust in people.
Forgiveness is important, but not always easy by any means for people whose trust has been so violated.
Mandi, my step-daughter just shared this on facebook. It speaks to our conversation.
“Forgiving does not mean forgetting. When we forgive a person, the memory of the wound might stay with us for a long time, even throughout our lives. Sometimes we carry the memory in our bodies as a visible sign. But forgiveness changes the way we remember. It converts the curse into a blessing. When we forgive our parents for their divorce, our children for their lack of attention, our friends for their unfaithfulness in crisis, our doctors for their ill advice, we no longer have to experience ourselves as the victims of events we had no control over.
Forgiveness allows us to claim our own power and not let these events destroy us; it enables them to become events that deepen the wisdom of our hearts. Forgiveness indeed heals memories.”
-Henri J.M. Nouwen
No, Bruce, this is not what I”m saying. But, I’m viewing all of Scripture in the light of the incarnation. What I really think is that we don’t know how to fully explain theses passages of Scripture in the light of God’s love and mercy. There are many scholars out there with various explanations and thoughts. Tim Keller in his book, “The Reason For God,” is one that does come to mind. But, all of these folks are simply sharing their own opinions as well.
But, at the end of the day, I’m neither ignoring or explaining away, just choosing to trust Him.
Rebecca.
Sorry, Grace but you are ignoring and explaining away. You always have. Three years…I know exactly what you think on this or that. As far as I know the only thing you have ever changed your mind on is that you quit calling yourself an Evangelical when commenting on my blog. So, it seems to me, you are not here to learn or understand as much as you are here to defend your peculiar version of Christianity.
Perhpas that is the difference in our denominations views, however, we are taught in our church that good things happen to us are blessings for following gods way. The bad things happen because of everyone’s sin. And we are taught that no matter what happens, it IS god’s will. Obviously, I disagree with what the church teaches, otherwise I would not reject their beliefs. No matter how another church tries to explain it, the verses are still there that support what i was taught.
Grace’s denomination teaches this too but she just ignores it. She is an Episcopalian and the 39 articles is their statement of faith. Quite Calvinistic, but in the Episcopal Church you can pretty much believe whatever you want. As one Episcopal told me when visiting their church, “you can believe whatever you want here.”
Forgieness does have a place. For my daughter, I hope she forgives herself for feeling as if she did something wrong. I hope she forgives herself for feeling guilty. I hope one day she can hear her abuser names and not totally flip out. But no, I do not hope that she loves this person. There is no need to. Maybe one day she can feel compassion for her abuser was abused himself, but really, he CHOSE to hurt her. The church in my opinion is really screwed up on the whole forgivenss thing. Also, I will never see my daughters abuse as a blessing. Most of her childhood was stolen from her. Will she move on and succeed? Probably because her parents support her and love her. Not all victims of abuse (physical, sexual, mental, etc have a good support system). It doesn’t help that the justice system rarely is able to punish these offenders.
Also, I see a huge difference in levels of transgressions.
Mandi, I worked for awhile as a child welfare investigator, and sometimes had to confront this, and these abusers as well head on. They can be extremely manipulative and masters at subterfuge. Nothing tested my compassion more than this as a Christian believer. (In the end, I could not continue with the position, and was not well suited for it.)
And, yet, many of these folks, were themselves cruelly abused as children. This can be a cycle that goes through generations. It’s what they know, and seems “normal.” . I met families where even incest was an accepted way of life. I once worked with a man, who was taught by his father and grandfather that it was acceptable to rape women, and carry them off. It was like a mark of manhood, being “macho.” Sometimes I would find myself at this lose for words, and simply had to cry out to God for help and wisdom in dealing with these people.
It is truly tragic and heartbreaking. There is certainly a balance between forgiveness, and yet, holding people accountable.
If someone abuses a child, they need to be in jail, and getting help as well.
Thank God that your daughter has parents who love and support her. She has certainly done nothing wrong, but is a victim.
You and your family are in my prayers.
Love,
Rebecca.
Grace,
I do not envy those who work for CPS as they often have their hands tied to intervene in an appropriate way. The detective tried to have the offender indicted on several felony counts. Justice will not be served now, maybe later. Nontheless, I thanked them both profusely for believing in my daughter and trying their best for her. Unfortunately, I know all to well about master manipulators and sociopaths ~ my inlaws. They do know right from wrong and choose what pleases them. In your profession you must understand the difference between ignorance and sociopaths.
I would almost bet that you think this incident led to me rejecting my faith? No. It did not as I was already half out the door when this happened. I will say the reaction from the church family and some relatives (mine and my hubbys) solidified the truths that I was already begining to believe.
Different example. Our community recently had a very high profile murder. YOu would not believe how many people are saying that this is gods will and although it is not seen now, it is a blessing he poured out of the heavens. Seriously? WTF? No matter how you spin it, having a mother murdered by her ex (her childrens father) in front of their children will never make sense or be a blessing.
Have you noticed how sometimes christians will say some of the most outrageous comments following a tradgedy? Sorry your infant suffered cancer and died, but really, god needed an angel and this is a blessing. We should be rejoicing that he is with the father….
or, yes, a drunk driver killed the driver of another vehicle. It is a blessing and maybe the drunk will turn his life around and praise god. I would think that man’s family and friends have a differing viewpoint.
I do apologize for my responses may seem odd. You did touch a very deep nerve within me. These types of scenarios make me very angry. God has some explaining to do, in my opinion. We are taught to accept and not question these horrors because we are born with sin, and all sin has a wage to be paid. jesus blood was not spilled for free.
Odd responses are always welcome. The people who frequent this blog are “odd” to start with, so odd comments will not be seen as strange. Of course this starts with the “odd” posts I write.
Don’t apologize. Your responses are honest.
Bruce,
I do not know much about the Episcopals, perhaps I should find out more in order to understand where Grace is coming from. My background is Catholicsm and non-denominational (evangelical) many family and friends are southern baptist and methodist. I have studied what the mormons and jehova witness preach. I will say that there are some differences between the sects, for the most part though, they are the same and teach the same truths about heaven and hell, sin, baptism, etc.
I agree, most every sect teaches the same beliefs. That is why I consider them just different flavors of ice cream. The Anglican Church, which the Episcopal church is a part of, is dying on the vine. (as are many of the mainline denominations) Part of the reason for this is that they have no hill worth dying on. They have a weak, general, kind of fuzzy at times, view of Jesus and everything else is left up to personal interpretation. IMO, the Episcopal Church is the half-way house between Catholicism and Unitarian-Universalism.
That said, I love the local Episcopal church, Great people. However, there is nothing compelling to draw me to them. No beliefs that really matter. Now there are some people IN the church that seem to have beliefs that matter, but for the most part the church is a social club. (and a very nice one at that)
My world is a world where facts and evidence matter. While I recognize that there are nuances and shades of gray, I think we can come to a conclusion about what this or that passage of Scripture teaches. This is not me being a Fundamentalist. This is me being an academic, an intellectual. These are the very reasons I am an atheist today.
It is nice to participate in a blog community that for the most part does not judge! Thanks for accepting me an my ‘oddities’.