I had a Twitter discussion over the past few days with a Calvinistic Christian named Michael Morth. He has a blog titled Biblical Orthodoxy. Michael responded to Former Christian Atheist’s guest post My Life. The Vyckie in the discussion is my friend Vyckie Garrison (she has a large Twitter following) who tweets all of my posts. Vyckie blogs at No Longer Qivering.
Michael: 1. There are no former Christians Jn 6:37-40, 1 Jn 2:19 2. Christianity is not assent, but repentance and faith!
Bruce: Nice try Michael. Keep telling yourself this as the number of former Christians who repented and had faith grows.
Bruce: Do you really think Vyckie or I spent our whole adults lives “assenting” and not faithfully living?
Michael: Well, I don’t know either of you, but I do believe God’s word. I think some people are false converts and fall away because they didn’t trust wholeheartedly. Trust and faith requires abiding and staying; many threats.
Bruce: So you believe what a book says rather than what you can see and what a person knows about themselves?
Michael: Faith is a gift of God and a drawing to Christ. The gifts and callings of God are irrevocable (Romans 11:29)
Michael: I don’t believe that the elect, after being born-again from above , will be able to turn away; God preserves.
Bruce: I don’t care what you believe. How we lived our lives tell the story. If we weren’t Christians no one is.
Bruce: Besides, millions of Arminian Christians disagree with your Calvinism. How do you know you are right?
Michael: I’ve been on both sides of the fence, but ultimately was convinced by the overwhelming testimony of Scripture.
Bruce: This is what they all say. Arminianism, Calvinism. Amyraldianism. All taught in the Bible. All with overwhelming evidence.
Michael: The Word of God is a better judge of humanity than our own finite understanding and experiences. We change often
Michael: then, what made you stop trusting? I’m a believer because God caused me to be born-again; didn’t start with me.
Bruce: who knows better what happened in my life? You or the person who lived it? I know I was a Christian and now I am not.
Bruce: Again, you can’t know for sure. Unless you persevere to the end you weren’t saved. You might yet fall away.
Bruce: and if you fall away how do you think you would respond to people who said you were never really saved?
Michael: The scriptures say that God “gave” people to Christ and Christ won’t/cant lose any. Also see Romans 8:28-30
Bruce: I am well aware of what you think the Bible says. Been there done that. I know Calvinism inside and out.
Michael: Again, I must ask what caused you to disbelieve? Cleverly crafted arguments? Scientific theory? Sinful desire?
Bruce: if Calvinism is correct, it was God who was the agent of my unbelief. God is in control of everything, yes?
Bruce: I stopped believing because I came to see that the Bible wasn’t truth, it wasn’t inerrant, inspired,infallible.
Michael: What led to those conclusions? Cleverly devised arguments?
Bruce: You really want to frame my answer according to your own conclusions with your use of the word clever.
Bruce: Facts and evidence born out of Intellectual pursuit led to my conclusions about the bible and its central message and teachings
Michael: What fact and evidence?
Bruce: Read Bart Ehrman. His books succinctly address the text issues and many Internal contradictions. Inerrancy can not be sustained
Michael: “See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit… of the world, and not according to Christ. Col 2:8
Michael: Did you read anything by biblical scholars that hold to inerrancy/infallibility?
Bruce: You might what to check out who you are talking with? I pastored Evangelical churches for 25 years. So yes, I have read the books.
Michael: Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend.
Bruce: No offense. However, quoting Bible verses that I already know and used to expositionally preach from has no effect.
Michael: So, no belief in God at all? Did you check out any other religious traditions?
Bruce: I am an atheist, so no God at all. Yes, I have checked out all the “other” gods and none of them ring true.
Michael: Do you think that you were living in a protracted delusion all those years? How long since you left?
Bruce: No, I was a Christian, plain and is simple. 8 years since I pastored, 4 years since attending church.