George Zimmerman on killing Travon Martin: I feel it was all God’s plan
Travon Martin’s Mom on Zimmerman killing Travon: I don’t believe it’s God’s plan for him to kill an innocent teen-ager
I wish Christians would make up their mind. Either God was behind George Zimmerman killing Travon Martin or he wasn’t. Which is it?
The Calvinist says Yes, of course God was behind the killing. God is behind everything. He is the first cause. He is the Sovereign of all and nothing happens apart from his decretive will. So, Bruce says, God killed Travon? Oh NO!, Zimmerman did. Bruce sighs and says says, sure makes sense to me.
The Arminian says No, god was not behind the killing. Humans have freewill. God is not responsible for what man does. But, Bruce says, Zimmerman and Martin were both Christians. Surely, God was “with them” in their moment of killing and dying?
Bruce, the atheist says, Travon Martin’s death is lamentable but I wonder, given the circumstances, if it was a tragedy waiting to happen? Do we KNOW all the facts? People quickly jumped on the Travon Martin train. Does he have any culpability in his own death? How about the racial tension that is quite evident in this story? Is the State of Florida culpable since their Stand Your Ground law gave George Zimmerman the legal cover to defend himself with lethal force? Is the NRA and the Gun Lobby culpable? Would less guns make the city streets in Florida safer?
I have lots of questions and I am convinced there is more to this story than what we have been told.
Woww. Awesome, dude (and ballsy). I thought I was the
only Liberal, Socialist bastard that thinks that kid deserved it.
(And, yes, there is much more to this story than our boys Bill &
Michael would have you believe).
“deserved it” — for buying skittles? for being black? for confronting someone with a gun for being black? deserved to be erased from existence? I don’t think so.
Deserved it is an ill-advised use of the word deserved. I hope we all the facts of this case will be made known in the forthcoming court case. What were the stressors that led to this fateful engagement? Is there a Hispanic/African-American issue here. I know when I lived in San Antonio I was shocked to find out Hispanics and African-Americans hated each other. (I wrongly assumed racial minorities stuck together) We seem to know exactly who George Zimmerman but who is Travon Martin? Innocent teenager? Thug? Gang member wanna-be?
Take a look at the pictures for Zimmerman and Martin. (do a Google image search) Which picture is the real Zimmerman and Martin? Or are all of them Zimmerman and Martin?
A lot of liberals jumped on the Martin bandwagon, while conservatives jumped on the Zimmerman bandwagon. I choose to stay off bandwagons.
I continue to wait for that persuasive piece of evidence that gives me what I need to know. Maybe I am expecting what never will happen. If not, I conclude that this is a tragic event with many people and institutions having culpability.
Yes, I agree that the stereotypes were flying. And I know that I myself know next to nothing about this. And I know that nearly every newspaper article I read on linguistics (my tiny area of any knowledge) has major errors, I can only wonder about the quality of the reporting about the rest of the universe.
Ahhh, the “Act of God” clause, which absolves all involved from responsibility.
There are SO many events in life that affect the mortality of these oh-so-tentative beings called humans. Last week a semi wandered into the other lane and two people on a motorcycle here in Wisconsin were history. Great to see the Deity making use of internal combustion to determine the immediate rolls of heaven and hell. Multiply such serendipity by a thousand and welcome to a typical human day.
At first the way the media presented it, I thought Zimmerman must have wanted to shoot Trevan. Now we know that Zimmer was injured. All I do know, that if God had any part of this, I am not sure He is someone I want on my side. Seems pretty screwed up ~ either He wanted Trevon dead, or He could have prevented the killing. Pretty twisted when you think about it.
God’s plan? Maybe it was Satan? Or maybe it was just humans acting badly!
Either way, a teenager is dead.
I agree. I , Al Sharpton, Sean Hannity, and who ever do not know all the facts.
I think Zimmerman is morally culpable for the kid’s death since he really shouldn’t have gotten out of his car. On the other hand, it appears that Zimmerman was getting his a$$ kicked by Travon and, at that point, was in fear of his life.
What we don’t know is, was Travon in fear of his own life? This whole situation is a tragic mess and if Zimmerman would have simply waited for the police, the Travon would probably be alive today, although angry about being stopped by the police when all he had was a soda and a bag of Skittles.
If I was on the jury, I would probably go with manslaughter from what I have read but who knows what will and what won’t come out in the courtroom.
Did the kid do anything other than be African-American in the “wrong” neighborhood, to provoke the confrontation? It seems bizarre to me that you can accost someone because of your racist phobia, and if the accosted defends himself, kill the person you’ve confronted? I must be missing something, or be too old for the new America.
Best I can tell, both of them used physical violence against the other. I want to know what the chain of events were. Did it start as verbal sparring, then escalate to physical violence, and then Zimmerman shot Martin?
At the root of this is the notion of standing up for yourself even if it means using viloence. It seems people are no longer taught it is better to walk away than resort to violence. (unless someone is physically attacking you) What do kids see on TV? What do they see in our actions in Afghanistan and Iraq? What do they hear in their music? Everything they and hear tells them violence is the way you solve problems. Only cowards walk away.
This event should cause up to reflect deeply on our violent culture, racism, guns, children growing up too soon, etc. It is one man murdering a boy BUT it is much more than that.
I totally agree with you about the violence, Bruce, and I worry a lot about the portrayal of the macho man in popular entertainment. It seems pretty obvious that this young man who killed and injured so many people in Aurora was fantasizing about super-heroes and super-villains. So 12 people are erased from existence. (As an aside, this was of course God’s plan. As the Brady Campaign against gun violence points out, in 2010 17 people died from gun violence in Finland, 200 in Canada (with 1/10 of the U.S.’s population) and 9,484 died in the U.S. So, making the population adjustments, 5 times the rate in Canada. God loves to use guns in America to gather souls to heaven.) So what happened to turning the other cheek? As I posted in another comment on your site, 90% of the Bible’s obvious precepts are ignored by modern evangelical Christians (and you point this out too). I think it would be safe to say that the relationship of evangelical Christianity to the BIble is “incidental” at best, and yet, they’ve got their eyes on your sex life because of something Paul said. And they believe in “inerrancy.” And they’re pro-Mormon because of how scintillatingly Romney aligned himself with Christ at Bain Capital.