Members of First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana and people closely associated with Hyles-Anderson College and Jack Schaap are astonished at the firing of Jack Schaap for sexual misconduct with a minor. (see previous posts here and here) Evidently these people have a short memory or live in denial because First Baptist Church has a long history of pastors getting themselves in trouble with the fairer sex.
Jack Schaap’s father-in-law, Jack Hyles, had an illicit sexual relationship with his secretary. The evidence against Hyles was overwhelming, yet the church rejected the evidence and Jack Hyles continued to pastor the church. (see Conservative Babylon’s section on Jack Hyles)
David Hyles, the son of Jack Hyles and youth pastor of the church, had numerous sexual relationships with women in the church. The church quietly sent him away to pastor another church, not telling the new church about his sexual proclivities, and he continued to have numerous sexual relationships with women in the new church. (see Conservative Babylon’s section on David Hyles)
Some people are praising the church for publicly exposing Jack Schaap’s “sin.” This is the same church that ignored Jack Hyles’ “sin”, covered over David Hyles’ “sin”, and whitewashed numerous other scandals in the Church and College, so forgive me if I don’t think they are acting “better” than the Catholic Church. (as one commenter said)
The people of First Baptist Church were taught that if they didn’t see something it didn’t happen. They were taught that unless an allegation could be confirmed by two or more people (Matthew 18) they were not to believe it. This kind of thinking resulted in a culture where “sin” was ignored or swept under the proverbial rug. (a rug that is so high now that you have to walk up a five foot hill to get into the church)
In general, the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) Church movement abhors scandal and they do everything they can to cover it up. More important than the sin or the victims is the church’s testimony. The church’s testimony must be protected at all costs, even if we ignore a pedophile in our midst, like Trinity Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida did. (see Conservative Babylon’s section on Bob Gray)
For First Baptist Church of Hammond to out Jack Schaap they had to have been backed into a corner without the option of covering it up or quietly making the “problem” go away. (calling in attorney David Gibbs to “manage” the crisis speaks volumes about depth of the scandal)
The root of the Jack Schaap scandal is found in the ministry, teaching, and doctrine of his predecessor, Jack Hyles. The remainder of this post will focus on Jack Hyles. It is impossible to understand the Jack Schaap story without first looking at Jack Hyles’ forty-two year ministry at First Baptist Church of Hammond. (a church that was an American Baptist Church until Hyles pulled it out of the Convention a few years after he arrived there in 1959)
In its heyday, First Baptist Church of Hammond was the largest church in the United States. (and, at times, claimed to be the largest church in the world) The Church was built around two things: the bus ministry and Jack Hyles.
The Church saw attendances exceeding 25,000 people. At the center of this huge church was its Pastor, Jack Hyles.
In the late 1960’s and 1970’s Jack Hyles was, what many of us described, the pope of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church movement. He authored numerous books with titles like Let’s Go Soulwinning, Let’s Build an Evangelistic Church, Enemies of Soulwinning, The Hyles Church Manual,How to Rear Infants, How to Rear Children, How to Rear Teenagers, Satan’s Bid for Your Child, Marriage is a Commitment, Woman the Completer, and Blue Denim and Lace.
There was a hard-fast rule in the IFB movement. The bigger the church attendance the more authority you were granted and the more weight your words had. I heard countless big- name IFB pastors say, “until you have as many eggs in your basket as I do you have no right to criticize me.” Pastors with small churches were looked down on and were expected to shut up and learn from the top dogs of the movement.
From 1976 to 1989, I heard Jack Hyles preach numerous times. I traveled to a number of Sword of the Lord Conferences, often taking people from the churches I pastored with me.
Hyles was a dynamic preacher, a real motivator. He used very little of the Bible in his preaching. His sermons were always topical or textual and were littered with personal stories and illustrations.
Hyles was a narcissist. Most of his stories and illustrations were about his own personal life and exploits. His stories about he and his mother are legendary.
Over time, as I became more and more dissatisfied with the IFB movement, I paid closer attention to the substance of Hyles’ sermons. In particular, I focused on the stories that Hyles told. I came to the conclusion that Hyles was a narcissistic liar.
Hyles would often talk about how important and busy he was. In several sermons he talked about how many people he counseled every week. I sat down and did the math and I concluded it was physically impossible for Hyles to have counseled as many people each week as he claimed.
Hyles was a ruthless man. I watched him, during Q and A times at a conference, dress down and belittle pastors for asking the “wrong” question. He refused to allow anyone to challenge his authority as the king of the IFB hill.
To understand the scandals at First Baptist Church in Hammond, we must understand the gospel that has been preached at First Baptist for over 50 years. It is the same gospel that is/was preached by men like Bob Gray of Texas, Bob Gray of Jacksonville, Curtis Hutson, Dennis Corle, and thousands of other IFB pastors.
Jack Hyles preached a bastardized version of the Christian gospel. The Hyles gospel has been labeled as decisional regeneration or one, two, three, repeat after me. I used to label the gospel of the IFB church movement as:
- win them
- wet them
- work them
- waste them
The only thing that mattered was winning souls. Dennis Corle told me one time that I should spend more time soulwinning and less time studying in preparation to preach on Sunday.
The key to church growth was to keep more people coming in the front door than were going out the back door. IFB churches are notorious for turning over their church memberships, especially when a pastor leaves and a new one comes in. (more on this later)
The Hyles gospel focused on praying the sinners prayer. Pray this prayer and you are saved. Good works? They were desired and even expected, but if a saved person never exhibited any change in their lives they were still considered saved.
If a pastor dared suggest that new life in Christ meant a change of conduct they were accused of preaching “works salvation.” (the Lordship Salvation controversy) According to the Hyles gospel, it was all about praying the prayer and once a person prayed the prayer they could NEVER,EVER be lost again. This is why some people insist that I am still saved even if I don’t want to be. Once God has you he never lets go of you. (check out RB Thieme’s teaching of this perverted gospel)
The Hyles gospel filled churches with people who had made a mental assent to a set of propositional facts. Every year churches like First Baptist Church in Hammond and Longview Baptist Temple report thousands of people being saved. Most of these new converts stop attending after a short while but this is of no consequence. They prayed the “prayer”…on to the next sinner in need of saving.
The IFB church movement is centered on men. Most IFB churches are pastored by one man who has complete, total control of the church. Most IFB churches are congregational in name only, with the pastor being the autocratic king of the church.
Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, and countless other big-name IFB traveling preachers routinely promote the notion of pastoral authority. The pastor, under the authority of Jesus and powered by the Holy Spirit, is the final authority in the church. He is the hub around which everything turns.
IFB churches are not known for their name but for who their pastor is. IFB church members routinely say, when asked about what church they attend, I go to Pastor So-and So’s church.
Two years ago, in a post titled, The Cult of Personality, I wrote:
Churches aren’t known for what they believe or even the works they do. They are known for who their pastor is.
When asked where they go to Church a Christian will often say “I go to Pastor Smith’s Church.”
The focus of everything is on the pastor. He is the mover and shaker. He is what powers the machine. Without him it all fails.
Christian TV, radio and publishing is all about the personalities within the Church. Name recognition is the name of the game.
Does anyone really believe Rod Parsley is a good writer? Yet, his books sell. Why? Name recognition.
Everything is focused on and culminates with the sermon and the preacher.
I had people drive 40 minutes to the Church I pastored in SE Ohio. They loved my preaching. They thought I was the greatest preacher since the last guy they thought was wonderful. Really? As much as I think that I am a pretty good public speaker, they had to drive past 40 Churches to get to the Church I pastored. Not one of those Churches had a preacher that could preach competently? (well maybe not, after hearing more than a few preachers)
What happens when the pastor leaves the Church? What happens when the personalities change, when a new preacher takes over? Strife. Division. People leave the Church. Why? Because Church became about the preacher rather than about Jesus and serving others.
Why is it the pastor’s name is on everything? The sign out front. The bulletin . Every piece of literature the Church produces.
If it is really is all about Jesus then why does it matter if anyone knows the pastor’s name?
Ah, but it does matter. Most Christians are good capitalists. (serving a socialist Jesus) They are consumers first and Christians second. They know people are “attracted” (the attractional method) to the Church by the pastor, the programs, the building, etc.
They know the pastor becomes the face of their Church. It shouldn’t be this way, but it is, and quite frankly, it is the Church itself that must bear the blame for this.
They revel in the cult of personality. They love having a name brand preacher. They watch Christians TV and listen to Christian radio because Pastor/Rev/Dr/Evangelist/Bishop/Apostle so-and so is on. Take away the names and it becomes as interesting as eating a no-name hamburger at a no-name restaurant surrounded by no-name people.
Is it any wonder IFB pastors and churches have the scandals they do? Members are taught to obey their pastor without question. He is the man of God. If he is doing something wrong God will chastise him.
This kind of thinking allows IFB pastors to commit adultery, molest children, and steal from the church without anyone ever knowing about it. I could spend the next two days writing about IFB pastors who have abused their place of authority and committed heinous acts against the people they pastored.
IFB churches think they are above the world and other churches because of what they believe. They are Bible believers, and their pastors preach hard against sin. Because of this, they have a hard time believing that their pastor or any other noted preacher could ever commit sins like Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, David Hyles, and Bob Gray did.
Bob Gray, pastor emeritus of Longview Baptist Temple had this to say on this blog about the Schaap scandal:
May I present the practical side? There exists more molestation cases proportionately reported in the 42,000 churches of the Southern Baptist Convention than in the 22,000 independent Baptist churches. Consider the largest denomination in our nation, the Catholic Church, and then think on their sexual transgressions for a while. This is not to take lightly one person who is violated by a leader in a church.
Look carefully at the argument Gray is making here. The Southern Baptists and the Catholics are worse than us! Praise Jesus! Such thinking should sicken all of us.
Here is what I know about the IFB movement. They will wail and moan for awhile but, in a few weeks or months, the scandal will pass, and they will go back to “winning souls” and “Preaching hard against sin.” It is only a matter of time before
a-n-o-t-h-e-r scandal rocks the IFB movement
Until the IFB movement repudiates its corruption of the Christian gospel and changes how their churches are governed there is no hope of meaningful change. Will they change? Not likely.
Change is not likely to come because of their literalism and belief in the inerrancy of the Bible. Armed with certainty, knowing they are right, they will continue to preach a corrupted gospel and allow narcissistic pastors to rule over them. It IS in the Bible…
(Please read my post Independent Fundamentalist Baptists and the Secrets They Keep)
“The people of First Baptist Church were taught that if they didn’t see something it didn’t happen.”
They don’t see their pastor having sex, so they don’t believe it, yet they don’t see Jesus raised from the dead, yet they believe that.
Strange world we live in.
That is exactly what I was thinking. You took the words right out of my fingers
I preach against the sins and abuses of the Roman Catholic church. I will also preach against the sins and abuse of the Roman Baptist church. Jack Schaap, who I knew personally when a student at HAC, should have the same thing done to him as any pedophile priest. He should be castrated and have a bullet put in his head for ruining that girls life. Instead of violating her he should have been showing her Christ. Listen up you stupid pastors: NO PASTOR SHOULD EVER COUNSEL A WOMAN ALONE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! Christ says that the Laodicean church makes Him vomit. And that is the age we live in. We make Christ sick. God have mercy on us!
He is not a pedophile, he is an adulterer. He violated the Bible but evidently not the law in Illinois. I hold him in derision only because he is a hypocrite, preaching one thing but doing another.
Bruce,
Sorry to see your blog and obvious bitterness toward Baptists. Not all of us preached an easy believing Gospel and certainly not all of us lived a perverted life. These King makers you blog about have nevwr had my respect.Reva and I have been happily married for 44 years. I am sorry your health is so bad and though you apparently have rejected what you once professed, I am praying for you
to the God (not preachers) that I trust.
I sincerely hope your health improves and remember some good times in the old days. Stay healthy friend.
Bruce Turner
Mr Turner, have you even played fundie bingo?
You are so right in your analysis. This type of thing is almost built into their system. It is sad. If I’m shocked it is because Schaap didn’t learn from his father-in-law about this type of thing. (Of course had it been Jack Hyles, he would have denied the very evidence presented against him, just as he always did.) I can’t help but feel sad for his wife and family. As for him, I’m glad he is exposed. Let him now get a real job.
I have no sympathy for Schaap but I do feel bad for his wife and children. Their lives will never be the same. Sadly, people quickly forgive and forget. Schaap will be a pastor again somewhere. Ted Haggard should have been done as far as the ministry is concerned, but, here he is pastoring again.
I don’t know, Bruce, about feeling sorry for his wife and children (who are grown, with at least one carrying on the Hyles tradition). They are first and foremost his primary enablers. Without perfect photo-op families with beatific smiles standing behind them and propagating all the Pastor-Is-King B.S., these demigod preachers wouldn’t have the bedrock foundation they do to stand upon and mislead others.
Granted, these people are brainwashed. If I really stretch it, I can think: Stockholm syndrome. But these are adults, with access to books, the Internet, the entire world — they’re not Patty Hearst locked in a closet for months, or Koresh offspring isolated on a compound in the middle of nowhere.
I could be wrong — but, for the good luck of the draw, I never experienced this kind of insanity, and don’t really know if these guys do keep their wives and kids locked in a closet 23 hours a day.
Still, when I see Cindy Schaap’s books (of the How to Subjugate Yourself and Live to Worship Your Preacher-Husband variety), I pretty much lose any shred of sympathy.
I think I blame the witless followers more than I do the dirty preacher-man. Without them, he would be nothing, and have nothing.
BTW, Jim Bakker is pastoring again, too. As with Haggard and all the rest, if they couldn’t find an audience of willing fools, they would just disappear, as they should. So, again, I blame the blind followers even more than I do the preachers.
I feel the same way…the family members are just like the other cult followers but with more information and evidence to make better choices…
Before we are so harsh in our judgement toward the wife and family members, maybe we had better take a look at where they came from. Lets all remember that Cindy Schaap is the DAUGHTER of Jack Hyles and lived her entire life in this cult. It is all she knows. When he died, he left his wealth (and HE sure had a lot of it) to the ministry, not his family. Check out the video on UTube of his daughter Linda who finally at the age of 28 found the courage to break away from this twisted, perverted, double-standard man and move on to healing through telling her story. Cindy is only doing what she has been programmed her entire life to do. Just because they have more information, doesn’t necessarily mean that they have more choices. To say that she hasn’t “been locked in a closet” for all these years really shows what little you know about what life is like in one of these cults.
Thanks for this Bruce. The structure of these churches with the pastor being at the top, accountable to no one & the lack of transparency, is a perfect environment for abuse & deceptions to thrive.
Hi Bruce,
I wonder whether these sexual misdemeanours by Pastors are just the tip of the iceberg, occurring in all religious institutions.
Shalom,
John Arthur
Baptists have flown under the radar and now, as more attention is being paid to them by the press and bloggers, it is harder for them to “hide” their sin. While I do not think that the Baptists have as big a problem as the Catholics, who turned sexual abuse and denial into a fine art, they do have a huge problem with it.
Do you think that Catholic pedophiles go into the priesthood in a calculated way to fulfill their impulses or that the the sexual perversions are unintentionally developed as a result of the celibate lifestyle and constant exposure to pre-adulescent boys? The same question also applies to IFB males as it relates to the constant teaching against and preoccupation with pre-marital sex, the female body, nudity, porn, extreme standards of modesty, touching, etc. Is it possible that this unbalanced focus coupled with the patriarchal attitude towards women actually creates unhealthy impulses and fetishes in young IFB males that are then constantly fed by the culture of guilt and outward conformity? I wonder if any sort of study has been done on this?
You raise a great issue. I don’t know of any study that has taken a look at this. Some predators enter the ministry in order to prey on others. Most, I suspect, due to the things you mention in your comment, become abusers or predators over time. What complicates this is that many pastors are raised in these kind of churches so it all they know. The dysfunction gets passed on from generation to generation.
I am grateful that my family and I could break free from this. I am glad that my grandchildren will be able to live their lives free of the dysfunction their parents and grandparents experienced most of their lives.
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I posted an article about this to facebook and received a reply from my childhood preacher (who is a good man and still a friend, although we disagree on many things) that quoted both Romans 3:23 and John 8:7. I replied that those were strange scriptural quotes coming from someone with a profile picture of the Chick-fil-A logo.
Sounds like his holy book condones the abhorrent behaviour.
Ah yes, the old, how dare we point the finger at others or judge them because we are sinners too. I have “sinned” too but I have never sexually abused someone or had an adulterous affair with a teenage girl. There are “sins” and then there are “SINS.” (and yes, I know the good pastor will suggest all sins are the same in God’s eyes)
I enjoyed and agreed with most of the article above. I may have read your conclusion incorrect, but were you stating that part of their problem was belief in a perfect bible? That is far from what they believed, and far from the reason there is death in the camp in the churches today. The higher you exalt God’s word the less impressed you are with yourself. These men held the Bible and claimed to cherish that book, but by their actions proved they were their own gods and accountable to no one. The biggest problem in America, STARTING WITH THE PULPITS OUT, is Americans have lost their FEAR OF GOD. God is love, God is mercy, God is grace. Yet without running into FIRST his HOLINESS and experiencing true repentance and true regeneration God’s love is cheapened, grace becames a license to sin, and people come to Jesus with a Just-In-Case attitude vs. the “Who can tell?” attitude the prodigal son and people of Ninevah experienced. The Great Awakening contrasted to the Hammond Decision Factory shows this plainly. People were awakened to their SIN and need for God and lost and saved alike had a respect for God’s laws, and in general lived more moral lives. Moral lives do not save, obviously, but it is a lot more wonderful place to live in an America where pervsersion is not constantly rammed down your throat and corruption is everywhere! America is falling fast, and won’t survive much longer, and mostly to blame are it’s churches. Preachers need to be humble God Fearing men who love God and care more about being faithful to gospel and not about bulidling numbers. The modern mega church movement says if it draws a crowd, it must be of God. Hogwash! Go tell that to Noah who failed to get one convert. As we head toward the end, QUICKLY, there will be a great falling away and perilous times shall come. Judgment must begin at the house of God. What is the answer? Do we just scrap the church and do what is right in our own eyes? Just look to the book of Judges for the disaster that would create. We need not be rebels, but we need to find some Godly authority figures not to worship but to work with and follow. Paul said Follow me as I follow Christ. Two heads is a monster, and Southern Baptist Churches run the church by their deacon board. You can’t even order gospel tracts without a fight. We are to follow Bibllical leadership. Hammond Indiana is CULTIC leadership. There is a vast difference between the Church that Christ built and the CULT that Jack built. His doctrines of unquestioning loyalty and Prayer Salvation need to be uprooted and exposed. Salvation is a person, not a prayer. HE that hath the Son Hath life. We need not to leave both, but it is time to change on both fronts — rebels need to get right, but so do any and all who are wicked hypocrital leaders, whereever they are and whoever they are. — Mike
Bible literalism and a belief that the Bible is the perfect, inerrant book lies at the heart of the problem. Don’t you do the same here? You believe like they do but came to different conclusions? They believe they are right, you believe you are right. Who is right? You both say you speak for God.
I am sorry for your experience in the fundamental movement Bruce. I too was a fundamentalist for eight years and even got a four year degree from one of there bible colleges. About 5 years go though I started to really understand the bible and saw that a lot of what I was taught was neo-nomian and anti-nomian and wasn’t true. IFB don’t know their bibles and misuse them. For example they say a person can be living a corrupt life style and if they prayed once in their life they will be saved but that go against (Matthew 7:18-23 NKJV). “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’. It is pretty clear that it means man must demoatrate their salvation. I have challenged any fundamentalist to give me a different understanding but they cannot because they cannot handle the text and twist it around. It is not a matter of their opinion versus my opinion but it is a matter of what does the Bible say. I think it would be better for you just to say I do not believe in the Bible because I decide not to believe in the Bible then to say that there’re so many beliefs that there is no way that I can choose the correct one. Because that just demonstrates to me that you never thoroughly studibutter bible but probably just parroted what somebody else said.
No, there really is so many beliefs. Christians can’t even agree on the basics.
But, we now have you. You know what the excact truth is and if everyone believes like you all will be well.
As far as studying the Bible? I studied it inside and out. Suggesting I parroted what others said is simply not true . I know you want it to be that way. It is important to you to discredit and dismiss everyone else so you alone remain the true-blue, Bible believing follower of Jesus.
Thanks for commenting.
So you are saying since there are so many “Christian beliefs” it is impossible to know the true one (if there even is a true one). But aren’t you claiming the type of knowledge you are implying can’t be had which in your case means that the bible can’t be understood. That Bruce is making an absolute statement. So I do not understand why the sarcasm for me making an absolute statement.
There are issues of disagreements in regards to some doctrines in the bible for example ecclesiology but a person beliefs in that isn’t going to determine whether he is a believer or not. What does determine whether a person is a Christian or not is the belief in regards to the gospel. Just because there are some things that more difficult to understand doesn’t me that God has made everything difficult to understand in the Bible. I am sorry that you thought you were part of christianity at one point and I will pray that the bitter taste the fundamentalism will leave your heart.
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. (1 John 2:19 NASB)
Christians don’t agree on the three basic fundamentals of Christianity: salvation, baptism, and communion. If they can’t even agree on these three basic doctrines why should we think there is any such thing as Christianity. At best, there are multiple Christianities, the Christianity of Jesus and the Christianity of Paul to name two.
Baptists believe in the priesthood of the believer. This allows each Baptist to have their own version of Christianity. At least the Catholic Church says…this is Christianity. End of story.
Please leave of the verse quoting. It lends nothing to the discussion.
I have found that there is a great deal of disagreement over ‘Biblical Leadership”. What the Bible teaches on that topic is much like what it teaches on slavery, which is to say– ‘ignored with extreme prejudice.’ If we look at the gospel accounts of what Jesus did, then contrast that with Paul’s actions and teaching I don’t think you can do more than go to ‘cafeteria Christianity’, just pick the verses you want to accept and write the others off as allegory.
Ah, the old, “America is doomed if it does not repent and turn to God” argument. Mike, you do realize that there are countries outside your borders, right? Many of those countries do not have the insanity that you call Christianity underpinning everything in their society. Many countries could be considered atheist, and they are doing just fine thank you. I really with Christians would keep their religion to themselves. You want to base your lie on a book written by men thousands of years ago, that has almost no relevance to our 21st Century culture? Go ahead. Just keep it to yourself.
If the literal interpretation of the Bible was so easy and straightforward we wouldn’t have thousands of different denominations or areas of religious thought and philosophy would we? Here’s an example…the Bible, as you noted, states that the world will fall away from God as Jesus’ return comes closer (of course to all OLD Baptist preachers it will definitely be soon and in their lifetime because, well…no one wants to die, right?) However, the Bible also says Jesus will not return until all people (people groups?) in the world have heard the gospel. How those two dynamics can happen simultaneously so that both can be fulfilled is beyond me. If one generation of the population turns to apostasy, then very quickly, future generations will know nothing of God or the gospel message and it will be impossible for all people in the world to be exposed to the gospel. I’m sure at some point I’ve heard sermons on both concepts to either guilt Christians into living a more holy life or to go soul-winning to save the world, but I’ve never heard both concepts discussed concurrently.
Bruce, This is Peggie (Spiller) Fetter. This is a very good article….you hit the nail on the head. My husband has recently became a Pastor, and he has not wanted his name on the sign, because he said “It’s about Jesus, not me”. You are sadly correct on the IFC movement. BUT, I will exercise my freedom to say, that there is a God…the human race has gone far too much accustomed to pleasing people….those they want to ‘impress’, those who are ‘big wigs’ in the church realm……I believe their reward is coming, and I don’t mean it to be a good thing. God , who created us, has been put at the end of the ladder of importance….because if He really were essential in lives, there wouldn’t be sin in the camp. Period. Please say hello to Polly! Love and smiles to you both!
Hey Peggie,
Thanks for commenting.
Even though I don’t believe in God, I do agree with your sentiment about the church. If people are going to claim to be a Christian then they should take their faith seriously. When I left the Christian faith it was because I no longer believed the tenets of Christianity. I could have continued on as a “cultural” Christian but saying “I am a Christian” should have meaning.
I passed on your hello to Polly I still have many fond memories of our days in the dorm at Midwestern.
Bruce
I almost attended HAC because of encouragement from many members of my church. I grew up in a Baptist church and school. Following up with a good old-fashioned Baptist college education was expected.
I attended a youth conference at HAC when I was 16 and that is when I was completely creeped out about the place. A 33 year old male student who was studying to be a pastor took a liking to me while I was attending the youth conference. So many people thought this was wonderful since my only real reason to attend college should be to find a husband. I already apparently had a good start and I wasn’t even attending the college yet. At 16 years old, a 33 year old man was elderly. His obsessive interest in me so quickly from the time we first met and the resounding enthusiasm of people at the church and college about it made me change my mind about attending the college. Instead, I attended a nursing school in my hometown.
I still believe in God but not the same way. I do not attend church and do not associate with any religion. I consider my beliefs liberal. I firmly believe that the church actually made me dislike the church.
I hope you will find a way to focus on Jesus and who He is and forget hypocrisy that you encountered. Mere Christianity by CS Lewis has been a great inspiration for me and is also a great read that helped me establish a faith for myself that allowed for my independent thoughts and questions without all the judgement from churches like these.
” If christianity is a lie and a hoax it is of little importance if it is true it is infinitly important. The one thing it cannot be is moderatly important.”
CS Lewis
Read plenty of Lewis.
Even though I believe Christianity is untrue in its supernatural claim, I do consider it important. As long as Christians demand to turn America into a Bible-law theocracy we better consider it important. When Christianity retreats to the privacy of the home and the church then I will no longer consider it important. As long as Christians demand allegiance to their God, I plan to give their view all the attention it deserves.
I am quite focused on Jesus and this is why I do not believe him to be what the Bible says he is.
Thanks for commenting.
P.S. Thanks very much for the shout-out, Bruce.
I was saved and taught in an IFB church, although not of the Hyles variety. Over the 35 years since then, I have found one of the biggest problems Christians have is not looking in the Bible and considering which idea lines up best. They would rather have a preacher tell them what is what. And I don’t see anything to change these people, although I still hope and pray.
Your observations are so on the mark. I had to keep reminding myself that you no longer believe in God. I know nothing about you, but I will have to check out your site more.
Thanks for commenting. The latter six to eight years of my time in the ministry my views about Christianity were very different. I came to see that following Jesus was all about how we lived rather than what we believed. I still thought that believing the teachings of the Bible was important but if those beliefs were not transformed into good works and a transformed life, what good were they?
Dittos on that, Bruce. In short, faith without works is dead. And works don’t mean hair length or church attendance or smashing your rock CDs. Works means visiting the isolated and imprisoned, feeding the hungry, giving water to the thirsty, comforting the afflicted, demanding justice for the oppressed.
Hi Jeriwho,
“Works mean visiting the isolated and imprisoned, feeding the hungry, giving water to the thirsty, comfrting the afflicted, demanding justice for the oppressed”.
Amen! You are spot on!
Shalom,
John Arthur
If people genuinely believe what they say they do….there would be no effort for how they behave……it would be natural to behave a certain way….what they believe=how they act!!! There’s no good if it’s all hypocrisy! Why spend all that energy, into something that’s all an act? If I don’t live “real”, then, yes, I will get exhausted trying to live up to other people’s standards! It would be a quick way to a nervous breakdown…..Believing what I believe in my God, Jesus Christ, allows me the freedom to live without guilt…and shouldn’t make me fret over what someone else may think…or say…or how I will be judged by others! MOST IFB will promote a guilt on another, if not looking just right , or acting just right….and it’s wrong to place another human being into that position. It’s not my job to put somebody into a box……..PLUS, living a certain way because a preacher tells them to, could certainly be very dangerous…..preachers are not God….we are responsible for our own souls…You are so right about this statement: Saying ‘I’m a Christian’ should have some meaning.
I’m Ken Reamy, author of “I’m Glad God is Not a Typical Baptist Preacher,” and I deal with this sort of duplicity (and assorted other lunacy) in the book. I’m not surprised but I am saddened. The pulpit elitism in the IFB movement is an atrocity of Nicolaitan proportions. It’s as though these personalities literally do not believe in a coming judgment. They have forgotten that Jesus said he hates the deeds/doctrines of the Nicolaitans.
Knew Schaap very well back in the day: close friend, business partner. First marriage he performed was my wife & me in 1985. I have seen this coming for 23 years. Go to Youtube & type in my name & you can watch my videos on Schaap & the IFB movement.
I am in a position to know and to know well: this is the tip of the iceberg. I have counseled some of his victims, yet when I shared the accounts of adultery they revealed to me, Eddie Wilson & Co. refused to investigate. ALL of the men on that platform knew of the horrific, violent, pathologically vulgar and disgusting abuses on display in weekly staff meetings. These men have been bought and paid for for 30 years. I am fervently hoping and praying that short of full repentance and confession (WHICH WILL N-E-V-E-R HAPPEN!), that church needs to be turned into a shopping mall. Jerry Kaifetz
Bruce, I’m wondering if you could draw a clear line between a belief in Biblical inerrancy and the abuses you mentioned above? I’m confused because the vast majority of Christians throughout history have held such a belief without incident, as it were. I think a more appropriate line of thought would highlight “unchecked, power and authority.” A “secular” example of this would be the Penn State snafu re: Sandusky.
This is a horrible story that breaks the heart of those who love and believe in Jesus. I hope that all of those in leadership that are living this type of hypocritical double life will step down and repent. Stepping down would be part of their repentance unless they do step down they have not repented. We live in a culture that is steeped in unbelief and pop idolotry. I believe in a large number of our churches the focus has shifted from Christ to cultural relevance like that matters. A multitude of sins can go unnoticed when our gaze is on the culture and society instead of our Lord.
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Bruce,
This is an excellent post, with no exaggeration or ad hominem attacks. I left the IFB 25 years ago (though I have not given up on Christ or the Bible). I just recently found out that one of the guys that was in my house dorm at Tennessee Temple in the late 70s (lived in the room right above mine) killed one of his parishioners after carrying on a 10 year affair with the man’s wife (the pastor/murderer/adulterer is David K Love). As soon as I saw his mug shot I knew it was him. However, at Temple it was the same as at HAC – numbers are the only thing. The pastor in Chattanooga actually defended a fellow preacher as a Christian even though he knew this guy was committing adultery, simply because he “brought in souls” through his preaching.
Hold on. I agree with much of what you say but the facts are different than what you are trying to imply on at least one point. From what I can see there once was a problem with certain people covering up sin. In this case, it was acted on very quickly. They could have kept it quiet but they did not. When any of us shade the truth much of what we say otherwise is also shaded even if it is true. Call a spade a spade. This has been handled thus far correctly. They immediately went to the please and fired him. [Schaap] I apologize if I am wrong but if I am wrong please don’t give opinions but give facts.
They went to the police and fired Schaap because they had no other option. No opportunity to cover it up or have him quietly resign. Many of the people involved in this case were also involved in the Jack Hyles sex scandal. They ignored and covered up, just like they did with serial-adulterer David Hyles. So, please forgive me for not patting them on the back, when they likely had no other choice but one.
The “protect the church” at all costs philosophy still dominates the church. Why did they bring in IFB crisis manager, David Gibbs, to “handle” matters? Why did Gibbs encourage other victims to come to him and the church rather than the police?
When they own the past, I will gladly praise them for their actions now. Until then, I think, a leopard can’t change its spots.
Bear in mind, before they went to the police, the administration of the church had already started floating the cover story that Schaap was taking an indefinite leave of absence “for medical reasons.” A bunch of FBCH people were online after Darrell Dow of Stuff Fundies Like warned of an impending change at the church, and they insisted that Schaap was taking medical leave or had resigned due to medical problems. Later that day, when the deacons changed their story and said they had fired him, the first story died out.
There is no doubt that they intended another cover up. Somebody warned them it was no good this time. My guess is that the Sandusky case has shown somebody that the good ol’ days are over. Whatever scared the deacons, they then went to the police. And they are STILL trying to control the story by insisting no charges will be filed.
Correct. This is a little known and quickly forgotten part of the story. Thanks for posting this.
I have spoken with Eddie Wilson & Rick Sparks, the two point men delegated to manage this crisis for the church. The problem for the church is that these guys combined are no political Bill Clinton and fall considerably if not laughably short of convincing anyone hoping for the transparency and accountability they seek to project. Until they own their past, they will have no credibility, and if they man up and do own it, they fear that their ship will be bottom mates with the Titanic & they will rust into oblivion together.
These people need to drain the swamp and stop pointing to the pretty Lilly Pads as evidence of a healthy ecclesiastical ecosystem. There is some NASTY stuff in that swamp that too many people have seen, and even more can still smell today. To operate on the premise of denial has been wearing very thin since 1989. Now it is a pathetic, monstrous and unsustainable concept, and the victims continue to pile up.
This outfit will only be restored through the leadership of a heroic and righteous figure WHO DOES NOT EXIST in Fundamentalism. What they have now is a Bill Clinton with a Bible under his arm and a gaggle of culpable and complicit yes-men for whom the word righteousness is something grandma embroidered and hung on her wall 50 years ago and eventually went the way of a garage sale.
In the IFB movement, many errors, sins, transgressions, and idioacy is ignored because “people are being saved.” This claim ascribes human efforts for the results, and only gives lip service to God’s involvement. It’s als a subtle way to slap down critics because God, after all, is blessing the ministry with “souls” being saved. The extortion, largesse, and devouring widows’ houses can all be justified because “people are being saved.” Yet you never see Jesus or His core group of apostles making such absurd claims.
ILCS = Illinois Compiled Statutes
(720 ILCS 5/11-1.20) (was 720 ILCS 5/12-13)
Sec. 11-1.20. Criminal Sexual Assault.
(a) A person commits criminal sexual assault if that person commits an act of sexual penetration and:
(4) is 17 years of age or over and holds a position
of trust, authority, or supervision in relation to the victim, and the victim is at least 13 years of age but under 18 years of age.
(b) Sentence.
(1) Criminal sexual assault is a Class 1 felony,
The Federal Mann Act violation wouldn’t apply if his actions weren’t something for which he could be prosecuted. States often let the Feds run with the ball to save costs and Illinois is nearly bankrupt.
Disgusting behavior.