Most homes and apartments have closets. We use closets to store things, keep things out of sight, and to maintain order. Metaphorically, a closet is a state or condition of secrecy, privacy, or obscurity.
A few years back my family and I lived in Yuma, Arizona. We lived in a beautiful home, the largest home we have ever lived in. The master bedroom had a ginormous closet, bigger than several offices I had over the years. This closet was perfect for a person like me. I have an Obsessive Compulsive Personality and I love order. I love everything having its own place.
So it is with Evangelical Christianity. Evangelicals have a ginormous closet they use to store the people and behaviors they don’t want other Evangelicals and the outside world to see. This closet is a metaphorical closet, a state or condition of secrecy, privacy, or obscurity.
Evangelicals believe the Bible is the inspired, authoritative Word of God. They believe the Bible is God’s guidebook for life, the roadmap for life, the divine standard for living. The Bible itself says:
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 2 Peter 1:3
According to 2 Peter 1:3, God has given the Evangelical Christian EVERYTHING they need pertaining to life and godliness. Filled with the Holy Spirit and armed with an infallible, supernatural Bible, the Evangelical has everything he need to live a Godly, holy, righteous life.
According to the Bible, Evangelicals should be the cream of the moral and ethical crop. They should be pillars of virtue in their communities. Surely a person filled with God Spirit and having God’s written blueprint for life should be head and shoulders above the rest of us mere fallible cretins.
Should be, yes, but are they? No. Every week there is another Evangelical pastor, evangelist, professor, principal, teacher, or para-church leader in the news because of a moral failing or some sort of criminal behavior. Every week we hear of another Holy Spirit filled Evangelical church member committing a crime, getting divorced, entering rehab, having an affair, having a baby out of wedlock, getting busted for drug possession or getting a DUI.
Study after study tells us that Evangelicals are no more or less moral and ethical than their non-Evangelical counterparts. The Evangelical’s life is indistinguishable from the life of non-Evangelicals. In every way the Evangelical is just like everyone else. Take away from the picture the trappings of the Evangelical ghetto and all that is left is a life that looks pretty much just like everyone else’s life.
Foundational to Evangelical life is the notion that some actions are sin. The Bible defines sin as transgression of the law, law meaning the law of God. When an Evangelical does something that is on the official Evangelical sin list (and the list varies from Evangelical to Evangelical, pastor to pastor, church to church) they are believe they are sinning against a thrice holy God. Every sin is an affront to God. Every sin is a repudiation of what Jesus did on the cross for the Evangelical.
Evangelicals hear their pastor and para-church leaders routinely delineate exactly what actions (and thoughts) are sins. Evangelicals are expected to NOT sin. They are expected to show in their lives that they are a child of King Jesus.
While Evangelicals will likely deny it, a lot of emphasis is placed on looking like and outwardly acting like an Evangelical Christian. At an early age Evangelicals learn to play the game. They learn the lingo and they learn what outward actions will make others think they are an Evangelical in good standing. Perception is what matters.
Evangelicals are taught that God wants them to be winners, to be victorious. The Bible says, speaking of the Christian, if God be for us who can be against us? Paul encouraged Christians to run the race that was set before them. They were to always keep their eye of the goal of crossing the finish line as the winner of the race.
Evangelical church services can best be described as a pep rally or a motivational seminar. How-to sermons are common and the goal is to help church members live up to the Bible standard of conduct. Look around the average Evangelical church…a monoculture, people looking, thinking, and living the same way. Evangelicalism is the king of the religious manufacturing world, producing from one die Evangelical Christian after Evangelical Christian.
They all look and act the same way. To the outsider, the Evangelical way of life seems to be worthy of emulation. Their demeanor and way of life, complete with perfect marriages and families, cause many an outsider to desire what the Evangelical has.
The Evangelical façade gives the appearance that all is well in Evangelicalism, but if we look in the Evangelical closet we quickly find out that looks can be deceiving.
As I mentioned above, Evangelicals are not any different than their counterparts in the “world.” For the most part they live just like everyone else does. They have similar attitudes, desires, wants, and needs and therein lies the problem for Evangelicals. Many of their attitudes, desires, wants, and needs are considered “sin.” If they indulge these attitudes, desires, wants, and needs they are breaking God’s law and breaking God’s law results in them being out of fellowship with God and out of fellowship with their fellow Evangelicals.
Not only are they out of fellowship with God, according to the Bible, they will likely be chastised by God for being disobedient. Evangelicals fear God punishing them for giving in to “sinful” attitudes, desires, wants, and needs. Sunday after Sunday they are implored by their pastor to live right, get right with God, repent, be on fire for Jesus, and to so order their lives that Jesus would be proud to call them his own. They are told Jesus is coming soon and that they should want to be found faithfully serving Jesus when he comes again. After all, no Evangelical wants to be caught at an adult bookstore or at a bar when Jesus comes again.
Every Sunday Evangelicals leave their place of worship with a heart set on living a life that is pleasing to God. And then…an hour, a day, or a week later their “sinful” attitudes, desires, wants, and needs draw them back into the “world.” The Evangelical is caught in a constant struggle between his humanness, who he really is, and this struggle leads to fear and guilt.
The Evangelical knows his life must be a certain way to be pleasing to God, and more importantly, for him to be accepted by his pastor and fellow Evangelicals. Since he can not successfully keep from giving in to his “sinful” attitudes, desires, wants, and needs, he learns to give the outward appearance of having it all together.
He takes all his “sinful” attitudes, desires, wants, and needs and shoves them to the back of the Evangelical closet. Once in the closet, no one will ever know what really goes on in his life. As long as he outwardly looks and acts like an Evangelical all will be well.
If there is one thing I know about the Evangelical closet, it is this…what is put in the closet rarely stays in the closet. Human nature, human wants, desires, and needs will most always win over commands and demands from a religious text like the Bible. When a struggle between God and human nature breaks out, human nature usually wins the battle.
Evangelicals are taught that basic human emotions and desires like angry, envy, jealousy, and lust are “sins.” Eating too much,cursing, indulging in a smoke or a beer, having sex with the wrong person, watching the wrong programs on TV, voting for the wrong person, supporting the wrong causes, having the wrong kind of friends, wearing the wrong kind of clothes, not reading the Bible or praying every day, or reading the wrong kind of books, among countless other things, are “sins” according to the Evangelical interpretation of the Bible.
When in the company of fellow Evangelicals, the Evangelical thinks, acts, looks, and talks in the approved manner. Once away from the company of his fellow Evangelicals he often reverts to his base nature and as much as he tries to keep his base needs, wants and desires in the closet, out they come.
Sometimes his “sinful” attitudes, desires, wants, and needs spill out for all to see, and once this happens everyone knows that the Evangelical is just like everyone else. He has the propensity to be a good or bad person just like everyone else. He is, outside of what he does with his time on Sunday, no different than the atheist, humanist,new-ager, or those he thinks worship false Gods.
The difference, of course, is that the Evangelical has presented himself to the world as a righteous, holy, moral, and ethical human being. He led others to believe that he is above the fray, different and better than the “sinners” in the world. His outward demonstration of Evangelical faith gives the appearance that he is a devoted follower of Jesus, a man committed to living a life of devotion, a life of godliness.
And then the truth comes out. Jack Schaap, David Hyles, Jack Hyles, Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, Bob Gray, Jim Bakker, and countless Evangelical men and women you have never heard of, are exposed as fornicators, adulterers, child molesters, or thieves. Out of the closet comes Evangelical men and women who secretly have homosexual relationships. Out of the closet comes Evangelicals with computers filled with pornographic images. Every behavior found among the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world is found among Evangelicals.
Evangelicals are shocked to find out that the people they trusted to lead them, to teach them the Bible, are hypocrites, living one way while telling them to live another way. Often they are shocked to find out the people they went to church with every Sunday are perverts, alcoholics, drug addicts, and tax cheats.
They are shocked to find out that Bro. So and So abused his wife and that Sister So and So is having an affair with one of the deacons. They are shocked to find out that the adult Sunday school swears like a sailor, subscribes to Playboy, and watches pay-per-view porn. They are astounded to find out that the pastor’s daughter got pregnant at age fourteen and had an abortion.
Those of us outside of Evangelicalism often have a perverse sense of delight when Evangelicals are exposed as being just like the rest of us. When a Jack Schaap, James Henderson, or a Ted Haggard is exposed for all the world to see we cheer and say, serves them right.
Those of us who were once Evangelicals often forget what we once were. We forget how we used to live our lives. We forget that we had our own secret “sins” that we stored ever-so-carefully in the Evangelical closet.
If we remember where we came from, perhaps we can then have a bit of sympathy and understanding for Evangelicals who find their humanness exposed for all to see. By being exposed they are now forced to come to terms with their humanness. They are forced to admit that, no they are not any different than the people they called heathens, sinners, degenerates, reprobates, or godless. It is hard for Evangelicals to admit, I am human, to admit that, for all their sanctimony and Bible-thumping they are no different than atheists like me.
The first step in the twelve step embracing your humanness program is to admit you are not better better than anyone else. This first step is hard for Evangelicals because they have spent their entire lives thinking they were special, that they were unique, chosen by God.
I am not suggesting that all bad behaviors by Evangelicals are just the Evangelicals being human and should be excused. We all know that certain behaviors are wrong regardless of who is doing it. Harmful acts against children are always wrong. Physically or sexually assaulting others is always wrong. We understand that there is a small set of human behaviors that must not be tolerated and should be punished.(like my counselor told me, we can all agree that killing, roasting, and eating a baby is wrong)
Many of the Evangelical “sins” are not what non-Evangelicals would consider wrong. It is the Evangelical moral and ethical code that says certain behaviors are wrong and often Evangelicals find themselves doing things that are contrary to the official Evangelical code of living. Their behavior is only wrong when viewed in the context of their Evangelical beliefs.
A central tenet of the Evangelical religion is self-denial. (I have written about this here) Evangelicals are taught and expected to deny who and what they really are. If the Bible says something is a “sin” then the Evangelical MUST refrain from doing it regardless of what his desire, want, or need is.
An Evangelical man knows he is a homosexual or bisexual. No matter how much he tries to deny his desires, no matter how often he tries to pray away the gay, he still has homosexual or bisexual desires. He may even marry a godly Christian woman, but buried deep in his Evangelical closet is the fact that he is a homosexual, that he desires to love men and have sex with men. All the self-denial in the world won’t change who he really is and what he really desires.
Evangelical Christianity considers every normal sexual desire a sin except heterosexual, monogamous, married sex. Homosexuality, bisexuality, sex before marriage, non-monogamous sex, and masturbation are all routinely labeled as “sins” against God. Looking at pornographic magazines, watching pay-per-pew porn movies, or perusing videos at youporn.com are all considered “sinful” acts that no godly Evangelical would ever commit. (Evangelicals commit these “sins” as often as non Evangelicals do)
The Evangelical is taught to fight against his humanness. He must deny the lusts of the flesh. He must die to self. He must crucify the flesh. But he can’t. No matter how much he tries, his humanness still forces its way to the forefront and he ends up doing things that his church, pastor, and fellow Evangelicals consider “sinful.”
It should come as no surprise that living like this often results in mental breakdown. Ex-Evangelicals like me often spend countless hours in therapy trying to reconnect with who and what we really are. Riddled with fear and guilt, our lives are in need of complete demolition and reconstruction. Everything must be stripped away before the true, authentic person can be found again. Who we really are was swallowed up by our devotion to God, the church, and the Bible and only by casting those things aside can we find once again who and what we really are.
It often takes years and years to get back what was taken from us. As we regain our humanness, we are often confronted with angry thoughts and feelings. We feel betrayed and we wonder how could we have been sucked into the Evangelical way of life. We wonder…at what point did we surrender our humanness? For people like me, we surrendered our humanness as children. We lived with fear and guilt for decades, and even now we battle with an Evangelical hangover. We wonder if we will ever truly be free from our past, free from those things that robbed us of who we really are.
I am an avid fan of the Showtime hit, Dexter. The main character of Dexter is forensic blood splatter expert by day, serial killer by night, Dexter Morgan. Dexter’s sister Debra is a detective and she recently found out that Dexter is a serial killer. She has decided that she is going to keep Dexter from killing. In the latest episode of Dexter, Debra’s attempts to keep Dexter from killing cause a rift between her and Dexter. Why? Debra is driving Dexter crazy by trying to keep him from being who he really is. She wants him to stop killing and he want to follow what he calls his “dark passenger” and kill people he believes deserve to be killed. (Dexter follows a code given to him by his father Harry, a code that Dexter uses to determine who should be killed)
Debra finally realizes that Dexter must be free to be who he is. Little does she know that he never did stop killing. Dexter is a serial killer, and killing is what serial killers do.
Evangelicals are humans, and like Dexter, their humanness calls to them and demands attention. No matter how long or how often they force their humanness into the Evangelical closet, it continues to call out to them. They can no more deny who they are than Dexter Morgan can deny that he is a serial killer.
The only hope for the Evangelical is to leave Evangelicalism. Its beliefs and practices are not healthy. Any belief system that requires a person to deny their humanness and calls normative human behavior “sin” is not healthy and should be rejected.
I am not suggesting that atheism,agnosticism or humanism is the answer. For some of us it is, but for many people, atheism,agnosticism or humanism will not give them what they need emotionally or spiritually. (and atheists are naïve to think otherwise) All of us need need beliefs, connections, and interactions that celebrate and respect our humanness while giving meaning, purpose, and significance to our lives.
There are countless religious groups and beliefs a person can find meaningful without losing who they really are. The Evangelical must be willing to break free from the certainty that Evangelicalism purports to give, and embark on a journey of self-discovery.
This journey is called the human life, a life of embracing who and what we are. A life of depth and meaning that allows us to find a life that matters. This is a journey we must walk alone. There is no right or wrong path as long as we walk with openness, honesty, and integrity.
Above all…we must embrace who and what we are.
Well said, Bruce! This idea of trying to live up to Evangelicalism’s ideals, and yet realizing I was no different than anyone else, and, in fact, led me to believe I was worse because I was an Evangelical, and as such, was called by God to a higher standard of behaviour. Trust God, and allow the Spirit to do a work in the heart. The problem was – it never happened. This created such a tension of guilt that tormented me for all of my 24 years in the faith. After five years of being away from the Christian faith, I feel that I am finally discovering who I am.
Bruce,
The Christian Reformed Church ( http://www.crcna.org ) understands that sin contaminates all human activities including the church.
Your friend,
bill
Bill. I may be missing your point concerning the Christian Reformed Church. Of course sin is everywhere according to Christian doctrine, but wouldn’t we expect the church to demonstrate that there is a significant difference in lives that are being continually indwelt by the Holy Spirit? I may not have been looking close enough or trusting Jesus enough in my 30+ years of being an active follower of Christ, but I saw little real change and a large amount of pretending going on.
It’s certainly possible to have people feel bad about their sexual orientation, but I have seen very little positive come from making people feel bad about such things.
Churches are hospitals for sick people, not clubs for perfect people. Churches probably have roughly the same percentage of bad apples as the rest of the neighborhood in which they are located.
On the other hand, a person who goes his local church instead of his local pub is limiting his chances for being robbed or assaulted.
1. If its a hospital for the sick then its not doing a very good job making people better, more like one of those medival hospitals where they don’t use antiseptics and bleed people for every ailment.
2. being guilted into forking over your money is a form of robbery.
3. there’s lots of physical and mental assaults that take place in churches, just read the news.
I have never been guilted into forking over money. Neither am I a free loader.
churches are places for money to be collected so church power can be perpetuated.
Churches may, at times, be hospitals for sick people, but most of the time the sick are expected to be healed of their disease before they will be accepted.
Bruce,
We do have some ground for agreement here . . . . on most of what you wrote!
First of all, God does expect his people to live like the Bible says that we are to. It is the perfect standard. However, all men are sinners. We have a sin nature and sin is in our flesh. We sin by nature and by practice. There is no question by that. Where I would disagree with you is that fundamental Christians lives are equal to a non believer in behavior. I honestly believe that, if we can know the truth, most REAL Christians do live better lives than most non believers. Now, there are those who are NOT really believers. I call them “make believers”. I have seen many of them in church and they don’t usually stay too long.
And, we have seen a number of evangelical leaders who have failed morally. However, I think that there are MANY more men who are faithfully serving God in churches all over this country who are not known but to a few people. Many of these men make tremendous sacrifices to fulfill their calling and no one pays much attention to them. However, when a person of note fails, the press will grab hold of that and it will make first page news.
Don’t get me wrong; people who are leaders of a group of God’s people, they need to live to a higher standard. But, that is why we need to remember that we shouldn’t follow men, we should follow Christ. His life WAS the epitome of perfection and he is the real standard.
But, and here is a basic disagreement; should we attack all preachers because of the failure of a few? Of course not! If a bartender is caught being a pedophile, does that mean that all bartenders are pedophiles? If a judge is caught with kiddie porn, does that indict all judges? Why then do people like to indict all (or most) preachers because of the failures of a few?
Take care!
It is not a few, it is many.
Real Christians who sincerely serve Jesus, yet they have secret “sins.” I use the word sin for the benefit of Christians. I do not believe in sin. Sin is a religious construct.
I pastored thousands of people over the years. I know dozens and dozens of pastors, professors, and church/para church leaders. Secret “sins” are the rule not the exception. The problem is not the person.Their “sins” are most often a result of their humanness. The real problem is their religious beliefs. Get rid of the beliefs, embrace their humanness, and most of the fear and guilt goes away. The religion is the problem.
This blog is frequented by thousands of people and it is likely many of them are sincere Christians turned unbeliever. If they dared to do so, I am certain most would share a story of their own secret “sins.” they would tell of fear and guilt AND they would tell of the peace and freedom that comes from being free of a sin centered religion.
It’s pretty easy to claim that Christian miscreants are “few” when you characterize the bad-deed-doers as not being True Christians™. You should look up the “no true scotsman” meme.
“If a bartender is caught being a pedophile, does that mean that all bartenders are pedophiles?”
Nope. And no one in their right mind would say so … unless bartenders tried to claim that they have a direct connection to the source of all morality and are possessed by a holy spirit that leads them to live righteous lives.
In other words, it’s the hypocrisy that inflames public opinion against misbehaving clergy. The churches’ attempts to cover up their clergy’s misdeeds — and for religious people to make excuses for the skunks in their club — don’t sit too well with a lot of us, either.
I could spend weeks telling stories about preachers, evangelists, professors, and church members and their “secret” sins. I would never do so but such things are quite common within the Christian church.
Many of the behaviors are nothing more than normal human behaviors, behaviors that can be readily understood. Then there are the behaviors that can’t and shouldn’t be understood…the child molesters and wife/child abusers. Like you mention in your comment, these people are often given safety and protection and their crimes are covered up because the church doesn’t want its image tarnished.
When it came to child abuse, sexual abuse, spousal abuse…I always reported these things. Polly and I were foster parents for many years and we knew first hand the damage that abusers inflicted upon children. It was hard for me to watch several church members be investigated by children’s services, knowing I am the one that reported them, but it was the right thing to do. One man went to jail over his abuse.
In one church we had a large bus ministry and the level of abuse we saw among the children that road the bus was significant. It was heartbreaking.
I blame some of the physical abuse on Christianity and its teachings on corporeal punishment. Not all of it, but some of it.
Well said, bro. As always! But, I’m sorry, I have NO PITY at all for any of these pious, self-righteous fucks when they get exposed.
When I was “Saved”, I wasn’t an arrogant, phariseeical prick like the Hyles’, Schaap’s and Gray’s of the world. And, I lived faaaaar better than they do.
my sense (looking in from the outside), is that evangelicals are quick to forgive anyone “inside” the church who’s caught, so long as they confess and still agree the bible is true. then the rank and file and think “hey, if that pastor can hire a gay prostitute and jesus will forgive him, then certainly my embezzlement and wife-cheating will be forgiven! ” and it all fits their cheap-grace theology, and lets them feel superior. hence the popularity of salvation by grace (correct beliefs) rather than works.
however, the evangelicals go crazy against anyone who dares say the homosexuality is not a sin, or that the bible isn’t 100% true. that’s because that causes the evangelicals to have to think, and deal with all the cognitive dissonance that raises.
You said “however, the evangelicals go crazy against anyone who dares say the homosexuality is not a sin, or that the bible isn’t 100% true. that’s because that causes the evangelicals to have to think, and deal with all the cognitive dissonance that raises.”
and I couldn’t agree more.
For me….my acceptance of homosexuality began when I started meeting homosexuals in the course of managing restaurants. Good people, who literally blew away the fundamentalist stereotype of homosexuals.
So Bruce every human has human desires are they all legitimate or can you please say which one we should allow and which one`s we should keep under control and why.
I will not be drawn into a discussion about objective morality. I think ALL moral standards are subjective and what is moral is different from culture to culture.
We should regulate certain human desires if the acting on those desires is harmful to the common good. Such prohibitions are few. For the most part, what consenting adults do is their business. We should determine at what age a person is considered an adult, but outside of that, the government AND the church should stay out of people’s private sexual proclivities.
You say we should embrace who we are , well every paedophile
and sexual predator will be delighted with your acceptance of them.Along with the freedom we have to be who we are, the bible teaches us we are also responsible for our actions,and our actions hurt other people, even thing like affairs, divorce drinking , smoking , gambling, anger, envy, these thing hurt or cause us to hurt other people. The bible is not the cause of great evil in the world its mans selfish desires and the attitude of, if it feels good i am going to do it , and as an individual I have the right to do what I want.You look honestly at the evil in the world and tell me this is not the case, even all the hypocritical preachers and pastors you mention these are men who are just acting on their
fleshly desires to both their and others hurt. so selfishness is the problem not God .
Nowhere did I say every human behavior is acceptable. Nor did I say that humans should have a right to do whatever they want. And I have never said humans should not be held accountable for their actions. Maybe you meant this comment for someone else’s blog because your comment is not directed towards any belief that I have.
I am sorry you have no pleasure in your life. (since if it feels good it must be wrong, right?)
churches, pastors, and Christians use the Bible to justify repressing normal, healthy human behavior. Of course, to you it looks like people are doing whatever they want, but your view is a denial of what it means to be human. Yes, I get it..As a Christian you think humans are innately sinful and prone to do vile things if left to themselves. However, my personal, real life experience is that people are basically good without God and the Bible.
The Dutch branch of Reformed theology has a doctrine of common grace which teaches that all good comes from God. “The rain falls on the just and the unjust.” Good is where you find it. Knowledge and truth is where you find it. Non-Christians are generally decent sorts because of the grace of God.
I was on a list of Orthodox Presbyterian Reconstructionists who drove me crazy. Every statement had to be backed-up by a Bible verse or by an authority on their approved list. Galileo must have been a real Christian because apples on Presbyterian trees always fall down and never fall up. Dutch Reformed people don’t have this problem.
I’m on a reflector list of right wing Baptists who are as goofy as the OPC in the own way. Every statement must be backed by a bible verse. No one can know anything that isn’t in the Bible. It is nasty but amusing to try to stir their pot without being banned.
Ah yes common grace for all the non-elect who will burn in hell for eternity because God decreed it. Are we supposed to be grateful to such a God for common grace?
Of course common grace is an inference made from Scripture. Since there is electing, particular grace there must also be a common grace for the majority of the human race that God has purposed to torture in hell.
I remember when you weren’t so Calvinistic, Bill.
Bruce,
I think that is an intentional misrepresentation of John Calvin’s teaching for the purpose of command and control. Calvin never heard of TULIP and would have argued against making a big deal out of it.
See http://www.evangelicalinclusivism.com
CRC Pastor Neal Punt was brought up on heresy charges at a CRC synod and the charges were rejected. The theology behind them was subsequently ignored.
Rev. Punt’s hypotheses is that the entire human race is “elect” except those persons whom scripture specifically names as reprobate, Esau and Judas, for example.
I don’t know of any preacher who paid his bills by preaching a universal salvation. The Christian message should be, “You are all “grandfathered” into heaven. You don’t have to do anything, think anything, or pay anything! Come to church and learn about it. We don’t need your money.”
If, in the next life, someone wants to go to Hell “to be with his friends,” God isn’t going to force him into Heaven. As Whatshisname wrote in “The Great Divorce (?), “The lock on the door of Hell is on the inside.”
Why might Hitler or Pol Pot want to be in Heaven? To them, it would hell.
bill
In Calvin’s own words:
“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends. We say that he has been predestinated to life or to death” (3:21:5). “We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was His pleasure to doom to destruction. We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless but at the same time, incomprehensible judgment” (3:21:7). “Now if in excuse of themselves and the ungodly, either the Pelagians, or Manichees, or Anabaptists, or Epicureans (for it is with these four sects we have to discuss this matter), should object the necessity by which they are constrained, in consequence of the divine predestination, they do nothing that is relevant to the cause” (3:23:8). In the same paragraph, however, he writes. “Moreover, though their perdition depends on the predestination of God, the cause and matter of it is in themselves.”
As far as I can remember, Jesus did not have much to say on the subject of sexuality. There is also very little information in the Bible regarding his life, whether he had girlfriends, masturbated or was a homosexual. So following Jesus is really not very helpful in these matters. He did say “Love thy neighbour as thyself” which to me implies that you should first love yourself, or have a good self esteem, before you can love anyone else. He also preached forgiveness and tolerance, so why would he be intolerant of homosexuals, or people who had “impure” thoughts?
He was tempted in all things – heb 4:15
Maybe that statement was written as hyberbole. Jesus only made it to age 30 or so.
Further, there has been an ongoing theological discussion Jesus’ ability to sin. How does one tempt God?
Anyway, consider alcohol. You can’t tempt be with alcohol because if it is good booze I will accept. I don’t get shnockered because I don’t like hangovers. I don’t have an addictive personality. I have a tight wad personality.
An alcoholic can be tempted because he thinks he can handle one drink. To put it crudely, if Jesus is God and if God knows everything then Jesus can’t be tempted with sex because he already know what it would be like to screw every human who has ever lived or will who live. It would be like trying to “tempt” me into eating lima beans.
The one thing Jesus said…if you look on a woman with lust you have committed adultery with her already in your heart.
Of course, did Jesus say this? We don’t know.
However, a man desiring a woman is normal so I am not sure how to square what Jesus said with what is a normal male expression of his sexuality. Perhaps the word lust means inordinate desire…
If the thought carries the same punishment as the deed . . . it’s party time.
It wasn’t the doctrine of the resurrection that caused my faith to die, it was the doctrine of the holy spirit. I don’t see how the resurrection, a miraculous event that was supposed to have occurred 2000 years ago can even be addressed. The doctrine of the holy spirit on the other hand, CAN be addressed because according to the bible the holy spirit is here and now. I realized that there was no evidence for the existence of the holy spirit, and so Christianity couldn’t be true.
Say again? Exactly what observation or experience convinced you?
I am absolutely convinced I have a guardian angel, call him/her what you will. If you rode with me behind the wheel for a few thousand miles you also would be convinced I have a guardian angel.
Years of seeing no evidence for a holy spirit, and having gotten exhausted trying to invent the evidence myself