According to the dictionary, a homosexual is someone who is attracted to the same sex. Homosexuality is the sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) the same sex.
Evangelicals believe that all human beings are born male or female. They do not believe a person is born homosexual. They believe a person chooses to be a homosexual and to engage in homosexuality. According to their interpretation of the Bible, homosexuality, the engaging in sexual relations with a person of the same sex, is a sin.
Many Evangelicals think a person can be attracted to the same sex and not commit sin. It is the act of homosexual sex that is the sin. (the same goes for sins like adultery and fornication) If a person who is attracted to the same sex abstains from sexual relations with the same sex, it is possible for them to be considered a Christian. However, anyone who engages in habitual homosexual sex is not a Christian. (though Evangelicals seem to have a different standard for adulterers,fornicators, and masturbators)
According to their interpretation of Romans 1, many (most, all) homosexuals have been given over by God to a reprobate mind. Reprobates are people (like me, perhaps) who have crossed the line of no return when it comes to God’s mercy and grace. Reprobates are beyond redemption and will certainly burn in hell for all eternity.
To a large degree, Evangelicals are a sexually repressed group of people. They spend their lives being told what they can and can’t do sexually. (and the can’s cant’s vary from church to church, pastor to pastor) The bottom line is this…heterosexual sexual intercourse between a husband and his wife is the only permissible form of sex. Often churches and pastors take the sexual prohibitions to the extreme, considering masturbation, looking at pornography, and oral sex to be sins too.
This is the world Evangelicals live in.
Back in the r-e-a-l world, we know that human beings are sexual creatures. We have a natural desire for sex. We also know there are numerous sexual orientations, including heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality. While we readily admit that environmental factors certainly affect our sexual desires, we also know that we are born with a certain sexual identity. I am heterosexual because I was born this way and so it is for the homosexual.
It is a common occurrence these days to hear of an Evangelical who has been outed as a homosexual. Homosexual Evangelical preachers, evangelists, college professors, and para-church leaders are regularly exposed and either end up repenting of their sin or leaving Evangelicalism altogether. One thing is for sure…being an Evangelical precludes a person from being a homosexual that engages in homosexual sex.
Many Evangelical homosexuals spend their lives in the closet, secretly indulging their nature, all the while living like a “normal” heterosexual. Often they marry someone of the opposite sex hoping this will “cure” them of their attraction towards people of the same sex. They will engage in heterosexual sex, father or birth children,outwardly doing all the things heterosexuals are supposed to do, but inwardly they battle with who and what they really are. Often they are depressed, desperately struggling to keep up the Evangelical façade. Some even consider suicide, a sin only slightly less heinous to Evangelicals than homosexuality.
I suppose marrying away the gay works for some, but, more often than not, this approach miserably fails. The homosexual feels trapped in a marital relationship that is not open and honest. Sometimes their spouse understands their dilemma and turns a blind eye to their liaisons with people of the same sex. Other times, the dysfunction reaches such a point that it results in divorce. Imagine the pain and suffering inflicted on the heterosexual spouse, knowing that their significant other desires a man or a woman rather than them. Imagine the pain and agony children go through when they find out their father or mother is not heterosexual. (keep in mind the family and spouse have been indoctrinated in the Evangelical view of homosexuality)
Sometimes, Evangelicals who struggle with homosexuality are told they just need to pray. When a person is tempted they are told to pray away the gay. If they will just pray hard enough, have enough faith, and trust that God will not give them more than they can bear, they will surely be delivered from their same sex attraction. If they still have this attraction? Simple, it is their fault. They didn’t pray hard enough, have enough faith, or really believe that God would deliver them. No matter what…it is their fault.
Imagine the same scenario for a heterosexual. We know that the vast majority of Evangelicals engage in premarital sex and that most Evangelical heterosexuals are NOT virgins when they walk down the aisle. (add to this number those who masturbate and it is clear very few Evangelicals actually keep the Bible sexuality code) Imagine Evangelical young adults, Nathan and Abigail, going out on a regular basis. As time goes along, they become more physical with one another. Soon they find themselves rounding third and heading for home. What should they do? Pray? Have faith? Trust that God will provide them a way of escape? (but remember masturbation is NOT a way of escape)
It is likely that Nathan and Abigail will slide right into home. They will feel guilty afterwards, promising God they will never, ever do it again. And then…just like the person who goes to Dairy Queen for the first time to have a chocolate shake…every time he passes a Dairy Queen he now wants a chocolate shake. Once sexual intercourse has taken place there is no putting that genie back into the bottle.
Do you think fornicators Nathan and Abigail will be treated the same as two homosexuals when their sexual activity is exposed? Of course not. Most every adult in the church understands youthful temptation and desire. They likely know from firsthand experience the guilt Nathan and Abigail are experiencing. As heterosexuals they understand how such things happen. However, when it comes to two homosexuals sliding into home, they cannot begin to fathom such a thing. In their eyes, homosexuality is the one sin that is above every sin, and this thinking has turned countless Evangelicals into homophobes.
Sometimes, Evangelical churches and pastors recognize that some Evangelical Christians are attracted to people of the same sex. They might even grudgingly admit they were “born that way.” But, make no mistake about it, born that way or not, the Bible condemns homosexuality, and such conduct is never permissible. (God creates us with desires and then tells us we can’t act on them. Strange way to go about things, don’t you think?) Evangelical homosexuals are told that they must live a life of celibacy. They are never permitted to love someone, to know what it is to find sexual fulfillment in the embrace of one they love. They must forsake what is essential to human nature and live like a celibate priest. (and we all know how well that works)
Evangelical homosexuals rightly consider marry away the gay, pray away the gay, or being forced to be celibate, to be offensive and a denial of who and what they are. While many of them have a strong faith in the Christian God and desire to worship him, they are usually forced to leave Evangelicalism. The good news is they often find liberal and progressive churches who will accept them as they are.
One cannot be a homosexual and an Evangelical too. Evangelicals refuse to budge on this issue, believing God and his inerrant, inspired Bible is on their side. Like with abortion, there is no common ground when it comes to homosexuality.
Perhaps you are a homosexual, either in or out of the closet…do you have a story to share? Please do so. Feel free to be anonymous if you must.
For what it’s worth, the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) is awfully evangelical and began intentionally to be queer-friendly and is still packed with GLBT leadership and membership. I’m not a member of an evangelical tradition (I’m an Episcopalian) but I grew up Baptist and my mother’s American Baptist church is entirely queer-friendly.
Christians who care about the Bible as much as most evangelicals do will arrive at all different places on the issue of same-sex orientation. Most of the best biblical scholars can see that there is no contradiction in contemporary same-sex relationships and anything in the Bible, which was talking about sex acts (rather than identities) in very specific contexts we just don’t have today (like temple prostitutes worshipping Ba’al, for example.)
Even if I’m not an evangelical, the Bible poses absolutely no problem to me as a lesbian. It never has. In fact, when I came out, my church was my number one support system.
“The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have committed a detestable act, and are guilty of a capital offense.” Leviticus 20:13
“Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin” Leviticus 18:22
“For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” Romans 1:26-27
and many more.
And ‘as a lesbian’ you honestly have ‘no problem’ with these sorts of passages in the Bible? I can’t imagine what it’s like to live with such a strong case of cognitive dissonance.
Incidently, I absolutely agree with you that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with being homosexual. Unfortunately, you have to realize that the Bible does not agree with us, no matter how you might reinterpret it to fit what you want to believe.
You should check out Spinoza, Jung, or Emerson, for starters, for a much more interesting discussion on life philosophy. That dusty old solipsistic desert tribal written book of out dated nonsense simply cannot compete.
I’ve “checked out” quite a lot, thanks. (In fact, I’ve published on Emerson and the Transcendentalists, but that’s another topic.)
Those passages you quote are exactly what I mean above when I say that the Bible is not talking about same-sex relationships like what we mean today when we talk about it. Those passages are written for very specific people, in a very specific time and place under very specific circumstances.
I’m not “reinterpreting” the Bible for any reason (I have no need to–I don’t think the Bible is in any way divine or authoritative about human life, but even if I did, I could still be a lesbian with no problem). I’m actually interpreting it as it ought to be interpreted–with historical and cultural context. The reason thins must be done is exactly because it is in fact a “dusty old solipsistic book of desert tribes” (and a bit more, but for the most part, this is a good description). This is what actual, scholarly biblical experts do. And none of those experts I’ve met (and I’ve met a good number of them in Ivy League divinity school) believe the Bible has a single thing to say about what we call GLBT matters of our own time.
All I’m suggesting, is that people not take some ignorant, small-town pulpit whore’s word for it that the Bible is unequivocally anti-gay. That’s simplistic and self-serving. You can keep the Bible and Christianity and be as gay as you like. Plenty–PLENTY of people are.
I do recommend you find a tradition that considers sexual orientation a non-issue, however. And those exist.
I agree with the advice you give here but…I don’t think the liberal revisionist approach to homosexuality (and other things) can be supported exegetically or historically. (and I am no country bumpkin)
I understand why liberals want to reinterpret the Bible and I support gay rights, gay marriage, etc. However, the Bible says what it says and the intellectually honest answer to the Bible is, “we don’t believe that bullshit any more)
The fact is the Bible is almost completely wrong on sexuality. (heterosexual and homosexual) thoughtful Christians need to be open and honest and say, we don’t believe everything the Bible says. Of course they then must answer how they choose what to believe and what not to believe. What hermeneutic do they use to decide what to believe or not believe and what is authoratative and what is not.
I have read numerous modern writers on this subject. I applaud their goal, but when I go back to the text I must conclude that their exegesis and interpretation is lacking.
I would add that you are quite right about liberal scholars and the interpretive rules they use and how they view the Biblical text.
However, the dominant belief about the Bible is that it is an inspired text. A vast number of Americans believe the Bible is a supernatural text. Such people will never see the Bible as you want them to see it. They must leave their religion in order to think differently about the Bible. Now, I am not saying they can no longer be a Christian but I am saying they must become a radically different kind of Christian.
I live in an area that is dominated by Evangelicalism and Bible literalism. Opposing voices are few. Even liberal mainline denomination local churches in this area are decidedly conservative. Not one pastor in this area has publicly stood up for gay rights and gay marriage. It is left to me and a couple of other people to publicly defend gay rights and gay marriage. (along with abortion rights and most other liberal, progressive political causes)
Our hope for the future rests with those 30 and under. They are increasingly I different to religion and they tend to think the Bible has little value when moral and ethical judgments. I am encouraged by what I see.
Bruce
I find it impressive that you managed to conclude that the world’s foremost scholars on biblical studies have a hermeneutic that is “lacking.”
Perhaps you ought to go to Harvard and do a PhD in Near Eastern studies in a record three years (versus the average of ten) like Leong Seow, acknowledged to be the number one scholar in the world of Wisdom Literature, and take him on.
I used to have lunch with him in the Princeton cafeteria and he thought the idea that the Church refused to accept same-sex orientation on biblical grounds was sheer mean-spirited ignorance.
Dismissing such profound geniuses as “liberal” with some kind of axe to grind is indeed ignorant at best and sounds exactly like the preachers you oppose.
I have absolutely no interest in whether or not anyone in the future is a Christian or even a theist. (I challenge you on your assumptions about young people–some of the most hard-core conservatives, both religious and political that I’ve ever met have been my students.) But I also know that in fact, the Bible does not speak much at all to modern sexual life–as you say “it’s wrong” about it in the sense that our modern values abhor things like trading teenage girls to our political allies for the right price. Anyway, we say that we abhor it in our corner of the world.
You’re absolutely correct that every kind of Christian chooses what to “believe” or care about in the Bible and needs to explain her rational for choosing. On sexual matters, I’m rather inclined to Walter Wink’s essay about biblical sexual ethics and how they can only really be used as a negative example for us of what NOT to do–same-sex or otherwise.
As for me, I find the overwhelming moral message of the Bible taken as a whole to be social and economic justice. Count the hundreds of verses addressing it versus the half-dozen that say “don’t put a penis in an anus” and you will see what I mean.
Finally, I don’t blame you for not doing church at all. I wouldn’t do it either if I lived in a place like you describe. I am very picky and won’t darken the doorstep of a church that does anything less than embrace with glee my white lesbian agnostic-leaning-atheist, mother of Black children self. I’d stay home if I had no place like that to go. It’s the best part about living in a big city that I do.
But for people who don’t want to leave, there are options and there are perfectly legitimate–really vastly MORE legitimate ways to read and appreciate the Bible than to believe Leviticus prescribes life for us in the 2012.
Here is what I will say. (actually I have a lot I want to say about your condescending comment and your attempt to stifle discussion by appealing to authority, but I will refrain from doing so)
For 1900 years, theologians, scholars, and the like have interpreted the text a certain way. Now we come to the 20th century and all of a sudden the interpretations of the last 1900 years are no longer sufficient. What has changed? New textual finds? No. New, groundbreaking finds anywhere that would cause us to say the previous interpretations are wrong? No.
The Bible is written in dead languages and to quote Solomon….there is nothing new under the sun.
What has changed is our view of things like homosexuality.
Like Christianity has always done, it is reinterpreting the Bible to reflect current social trends and since we are a culture that is more homosexual friendly today our churches are reflecting this trend. That is the neat thing about the Bible…it can be made to say anything.
I do hope you know anecdotal stories about your students is not proof that kids are not more liberal/progressive. Study after study shows that young adults are far more progressive in their values and beliefs than previous generations. You err when you extrapolate from your interaction with your conservative students that they are the norm. They are not.
Thank you for commenting.
Bruce
Sexual orientation is a non-issue to me. It’s the Bible which has an issue with it. You can dress it up all you want but it’ll still be a piece of shit in a suit.
But I can see by your reply above, and following thread below, that you have simply created your own religion to fit what you specifically want out of your spiritual life. I say good for you. Have fun with that. But you need to come up with a new name for your exciting religion, because Christianity it isn’t.
Hi Bruce. I did exactly that – tried to marry the gay away – because my church said homosexuality couldn’t be countenanced (by God or those in the church). It said homosexual relationships were degrading and disgraceful though the only one I’d had up to that point, when I was 16 (my church didn’t know about it), had been anything but. Nonetheless I believed my pastors and youth leaders and at 20 married the first girl I met who’d have me. As result I involved her and my subsequent children in the mess of my life.
My wife and I separated six years ago when I was in my 50s. I’d behaved myself up to the end of the marriage when it just all became too much. I now accept and embrace my sexuality (any ‘faith’ has gone, thank goodness) and am so much happier and fulfilled being myself. My wife (we’re not divorced) is happier now too and the kids, grown up, are accepting of me.
I wish though I hadn’t listened to my church back in the day. Jesus has a lot to answer for.
Neil,
Thanks so much for sharing your story.
Bruce
Hey Bruce…you describe my life perfectly. My ex-husband was fully gay yet he married me hoping he would change. We had a son together but it took so much of his energy to hold up his fake heterosexual world. Our marriage ended mostly due to his lack of energy and his dishonesty with himself and with me.
Living with my gay husband was easy compared to living with his depression and with his deception.
Of course our fundygelical church ranted against gays yet told me to hand in there and be submissive so he would come around; the worst was after we divorced, those same church folk asked “what took you so long?” F**k them. There were no winners. And at age 52, became a happy atheist!
Sue,
Thank you for sharing your story.
Bruce
Pardon me, but yes, F**k them, Thanks for being honest.
Bruce:
The Bible was *not* interpreted in the same way for 1900 years. That’s just it. Fundamentalist literalism began when Darwinism began to ask questions no one had ever thought of before. Nothing may be new under the sun (Solomon himself didn’t say that by the way) but nothing stays static for 2000 years either. There’s a rich and interesting history of interpretation of the Bible that is everything BUT static.
I gather the experiences you asked real queers to share here do not include mine. I’m tired of being told by people who are neither queer nor Christian that I can’t be who and what I am. It is no better to be told here that I must be self-hating not to think exactly what you expect or want me to think than it is to be told I’m damned to hell by some Baptist preacher.
No–it’s worse in a context like this, where I am supposedly in the company of allies. I don’t give a flying flip what anti-gay preachers think.
My “appeals to authority” are simply an attempt to point out that many, many people wiser than you or I have different ideas about this than the limited ones you allow for here.
A note on language: “homosexual” is a word that signals anti-gay sentiments to those of us who are queer. Many people don’t like “queer” but GLBT will do in a pinch. “Homosexual” has been rather taken up by the right-wing conservatives, so, not being one, you might want to modify your language.
Your experience and what the an ancient text actually says is two different things. I accept and embrace your experience. I reject your interpretation of the Bible on intellectual grounds. I think your interpretation, while commendable and certainly understandable, does not reflect what the text says. You can’t or won’t accept this….that’s fine.
I never said you were self-hating did I?
As to my use of the word homosexual. (sigh)
Hi Bruce,
A great discussion! I support Gay and Lesbian rights, including marriage equality. Many Evangelicals are fearful of full equality and do everything in their power to prevent it. Homophobia is strong in these circles. Any Minister of Pastor that turned out to be a supporter of Gay and lesbian rights would be thrown out of the church. You only have to raise the issue and some Fundamentalists will say to you, “Are you going gay too?” I am strongly heterosexual, but I can’t see marriage collapsing if Gay and lesbians are given such rights.
Even in the Liberal Uniting Church of Australia where each presbytery can make up its own mind on their stance on Gay and Lesbian ministers, there is hostility from the Evangelical members to allowing same sex-oriented persons into the ministry of the Church. I was told by an elder at one Uniting Church that they lost half their congregation to the Baptists over the whole discussion about homosexuality when synod discussed this issue a few years ago. And some of those who left weren’t even Evangelical..
Most Christians in the pews accept a historico-grammatical interpretation of the bible and this plays into the hands of Evangelicals. Liberal scholars use historico- critical techniques and pastors are often trained in such techniques but are too scared to tell their congregations about them, because they know that the pews would soon empty and they might be out of a job or they would be immediately sacked if there was a strong contingent of Evangelicals in the church..
These different approaches to biblical hermeneutics explain, in part, the different approaches to the bible on the question of homosexuality and the bible. Historico-critical techniques have only been around for about 150-200 years or so. .
Shalom,
John Arthur
I just realized that the recent same-day legalization of gay marriage and marijuana (in Colorado and Washington) actually makes perfect Biblical sense. For as Leviticus 20:13 clearly states, ‘A man who lays with another man should be stoned.’
Very good, Aram, very good.
As a Catholic Marriage is a Sacrament that requires, as with all other Sacraments, prescribed conditions. As it turns out the Catholic Church may not be able to conduct Marriages in the UK because of the New Laws for New Marriage (as opposed to traditional Marriage). I can’t argue with people who are sex crazed and don’t understand that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is CHASTITY. Still there is a lot more at stake than philosophy or arguments for chastity…it is also about changing laws that persecute our church. Go ahead now ….call me a bigot if you like. I have been spat on by homosexuals, seen churches vandalised, clergy assaulted. Equality for all….I seriously doubt it. I do agree though that homosexuality is a disorder which could happen in the womb. As Jesus said. (Mat 16 12)
“For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others–and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
I doubt you will accept it.
Here is what you epically fail to understand. Yes, I think you are a bigot. Lots of Christians are bigots. Their bigotry has nothing to do with same-sex marriage.
Any church or sect is free to marry whomever they wish. They are free to refuse anyone. ANYONE.
Marriage is regulated by the state. Because we believe in equal protection under the law and the same civil rights applying to all, same-sex should be legal in all 50 states. Same-sex couples marrying does not affect you or your church in any way. (other than exposing your bigotry)
Who cares about your religious beliefs. They have no standing in the debate over same-sex marriage. We live in a secular state governed by laws. Your church’s laws have no place in our secular state.
So, by all means, continue to be a bigot. By all means support a church that is misogynistic, anti-woman, and led by pedophiles. By all means play the martyr…but…continue to watch your membership numbers decline as people who believe in decency and civil rights for all leave.
Thank you for commenting.