Jack Schaap
If you have been following the Jack Schaap case, you know his sentencing has been delayed until March 12, 2013. On January 3, 2013, lawyers for Jack Schaap filed a Sentencing Memorandum with the US District Court. You can read the entire document here. (it is a PDF file)
In the memorandum Schaap admits to the following:
Unfortunately, for a four-week period during the summer of 2012, he acted in a
manner contrary to the entire balance of his life by engaging in sexual activity with a
young woman with whom he had only recently come to counsel. The government
asserts the sexual activity to include the following: On June 20 and June 27, 2012, Dr.
Schaap caused the young woman to be transported from Indiana to Illinois where they engaged in sexual activity prohibited by Illinois law. And, during the week of July 10, 2012, he caused the same young woman to be transported from Indiana to Michigan where they engaged in sexual activity prohibited by Michigan law. Subsequently, during the week of July 15, 2012, while remaining in Indiana, he and the young woman engaged in sexual activity prohibited by Indiana law. Dr. Schaap does not dispute that the sexual activity began on June 20, 2012 (approximately one week before the young woman’s 17 birthday) and ended during the week of July 16, 2012 (approximately four weeks later)
Most of the eighteen page document is a recitation of all the good Schaap has done in the past. It is a plea for leniency. Schaap could be sentenced to 10 years in prison.
I have mixed feelings about how long he should go to prison. What are your thoughts on the matter?
If you have not read my previous posts on this subject please read the Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap series.
Nice to have you back, Bruce.
They should throw the book at him. He was supposed to be counseling that girl and he took advantage of her instead.
Good to see you too!!
Personal, he did wrong. But, why should he get special treatment of a minium of 10 years? If anyone else did this, we would take care of the isssue. He should be punished to the full extent, more than 10 years. He ruined her life as well as many others.
I agree, he should get the same treatment as anyone else. However, we don’t have a just legal system. Money and status often buy you a reduced sentence or, far too often, probation. The poor and minorities, who can’t afford legal representation, are often at the mercy of overworked public defenders. Sadly, they tend to receive longer sentences and little mercy from the court.
I would give force him to take a vacation to a place of his choosing, then take a month off from his schedule to recuperate followed by extended counciling.I f you read the 18 pages of what he has done, I doubt if any human in history has come close to his accomplishments.I would honor him with a medal for what he has done and forgive him his transgressions.
I CAN JUST HEAR THE SCREAMS OF SOME OF YOU SELF RIGHTEOUS,”HOLIER THAN THOU” PEOPLE WITHOUT THE AID OF A SPEAKER.LOL
DEMONSTRATUM
Spoken like a true IFB cultist. Schaap has sex with underage girl and you think all he needs is a vacation and counseling.
You are the one who should get the medal. The Pope Benedict medal given to people who don’t take seriously sex crimes.
Shame on you.
You claim you want him to be treated like anyone else. Does this mean you think all professionals who abuse their position by having sex with underage clients should just be sent on vacation to a place of their choosing? I believe you DO think he should get a slap on the wrist for being a preacher. I DON’T, and I’m a Christian. His sins found him out and he should pay the price. Otherwise, there’s no point in having any laws or standards at all.
And just how do you know he ruined her for life? If that is true, then he should spend the 20 or so years in prison. If she is able to recover and regain her ability to trust others (which is likely weakened) then I am not opposed to a sentence of less than 10 years. 10 years for most people is just a number. For inmates it is a very long time. I also expect, if she hasn’t already done so, she will benefit financially through civil litigation.
I am a medical provider, working in the DRC system in Ohio. I attended Grace Baptist Church in Delaware, Ohio for greater than 10 years. A sickening product of Hyles Anderson. I felt like a stepford wife in a dream. Shunned if you did not conform to Caryn Banes (Corey Bane,’s, pastor Wife) way. If she did not like something, you knew it. The old Hyles Anderson Pastor Jack acted just like his father in law having sexual relations when married.
Corey & Caryn Bane can’t take the heat at GBC, Caryn has to have a female “body guard” at all times so she does not have to answer questions from the peanut gallory. She is a peice of work, Banes are leaving GBC for a look alike church in West Virginna. A Hyles product.
Jack should get the full extent of the law. Pastor Bane was asked to write a letter to the courts for Jack. He followed through.
Jack start being accountable for your actions now, stop making excuses. god will ask you to take account soon enough. Perhaps you’ll become someone’s Bitch at DRC, baby rapers are hated. I’ve been to Death Row and all the highest level security prisons. You deserve the MAX.
Hi! I just wanted to say that I attended grace baptist church from the time I was born and also attended hyles anderso. While I do have issues, I dont believe its right to talk such disgrace of people.I dont believe our opinions really matter, becaus God will judge them how he sees fit. We need to be focusing on lost souls as I believe the end is very near. If any of us think that we are better than these people, I think God can prove us wrong. P.s. buy using a curse word just proves my point. We have a great heritage with God regardless of what wrong people do.
Uh, you do know this is an atheist blog, yes? Since there is no God, our opinions and judgments do matter. I am not willing to let people off so a “mythical” God can judge them. Sexual predators should be arrested and tried by a jury of their peers. And if found guilty, they should go to jail.
Curse words are just words. Again, since there is no God to “judge” us for the words we use, we are free to say what we want. Now this doesn’t mean that using curse words are always appropriate but they do have their place. Besides, Baptists cuss all the time. Shoot, darn, crap, dang-it, freaking, etc. These are just replacement word for the real words.
Do you propose just sending murderers and thieves on vacation instead of giving the sentence the law provides? The man is a criminal. It amazes me that some Christians are so into everybody’s business when it comes to sex, yet when one of their preaching heroes commits a sex CRIME against a minor, they think going on vacation is punishment enough.
If that had been your underage daughter, would you be so unconcerned that this man is a criminal and needs to be dealt with according to law?
If opinions don’t matter why post and why are you on this site? Drank the koolaid
Drank the koolaid of Hyles and Grace.
if he receives any less than 10 years, it will be a blazing historical beacon to other “pastors” who think that they can get away with the same thing, that their sentences can be reduced by a “plea for leniency”.
I don’t think he should be locked up for more than five years after they should cut his dick off. Yes, I am aware that’s rude. Obnoxious. But I had some asshole preacher think he could molest ME as a teen. And I’m willing to bet Mr Good Works Schaap would never pork another teenage girl if he lost his equipment. I’m up for nailing his balls to a stump and pushing him over backwards… just give me an opportunity.
I’ve also had counseling as a teen. From a professional, not a pastor. And that’s exactly what he was. Professional. Schaap is a low scumbag piece of shit.
People make mistakes and Jack Schaap has counseled thousands of women without any problem. It just happened to be a time in his life when he was vulnerable…..something that could happen to you or anybody else. I don’t think the sentence for a thief is cutting off his hand? So your idea of punishment IS ridiculous!
You can’t know if he ever did this before. We can not take his word for it since he has no credibility.
No, this really can’t necessarily happen to me, you, or anyone else. Sex with a minor is wrong, criminally wrong. Sex with someone vulnerable (the girl) is wrong, and in the case of Schaap counseling her, criminally wrong. Schaap is the adult in this story, a middle aged man who knew better. He allowed his sexual urges to run wild…if it was all about sex…why not have an affair with an adult woman? Why not go to a prostitute? Instead, he chose a path that was criminal and he KNEW it was criminal. (every pastor knows the legal parameters when counseling people)
If Schaap was caught having an affair with a grown woman or caught coming out of a massage parlor…no story here for me. Certainly big news for the Church and the Schaap family but it is not uncommon for men to have affairs or go to places of adult entertainment.
Generally, people don’t just up and do something like Schaap did. There is a backstory here that has not been revealed. I am not saying there are more women but I am saying there is more to this story than what is being reported. I can’t imagine Jack Schaap waking up one day and saying, I think this is a good day to have sex with a minor.
Men who have sexual desires that aren’t being met within their marriage have several options. They can work to make the sex in their marriage better. They can have an affair. They can hire a prostitute. What they can not do, according to our legal code, is have sex with minors, children,their progeny, or people they have power and authority over.
Indeed he was caught having an affair with a grown woman, so why do you care? She was 16, just days from her 17th birthday, above the age of consent in most states (including Michigan and Indiana, their home states), and the charges brought against him are a technicality of his having crossed a state border and have nothing to do with the morality of his having sex with a young unmarried woman. According to the Bible he should be required to marry her (unless her father objects) so that she would not be forced to live in shame. He did not rape her, from all accounts I’ve read this was not an abusive relationship but was fully consensual. While I definitely believe he did wrong, and I also strongly disagree with his teaching and manner of conduct as a pastor, I still believe he should get fair treatment as should anybody living in a free and just society. He had sex with a young unmarried woman above the age of consent, so punish him accordingly. Now he may be under the punishment of God for other things, God knows what is just, but 10 years in prison for crossing state lines and having sex with a young woman is NOT JUST.
If GOD knows what is just then how can YOU say Schaap’s sentence is not just?
You seem to miss or ignore the fact that he was old enough to be her father or grandfather and he was in a professional relationship with her. (counseling her) In Ohio, such a relationship is always illegal regardless of the age.
Why do I care? Simple. Schaap set himself up as an arbiter of what is moral. He railed against all sorts of immorality…yet he couldn’t keep his own fly zipped. I feel sorry for the girl. For Schaap I have nothing but scorn and derision. Just another arrogant, self-righteous preacher who told others how to live but didn’t live that way himself. (and I don’t think this is his only “sin” on an otherwise unblemished record)
Schaap broke the law and there is no justification for what he did. When you cross a state line you are governed by the laws of that state or federal law, depending on the circumstance. If a man from Michigan comes to Ohio and murders someone he could face the death penalty. He can not claim, well I am from Michigan, a no-death-penalty state, so the death penalty doesn’t apply to me.
Bruce, I’m not sure why but there is no “reply” link on your message above so I’m posting it as a non-reply.
When I said God knows what is just, I was talking about things other than this case, such as his manipulation of people in his church and teaching false doctrine in God’s name. In this case we know God’s law, you can read it in Exodus 22:16-17. We don’t know what all else Jack has done, God knows what is just punishment for that.
It doesn’t matter how old HE was! She was old enough to give her legal consent, that’s all that matters. And being her pastor is not a “professional” relationship. Pastors’ relationships with their church members are not regulated by the government. And this did not happen in Ohio. And would it be unreasonable of me to ask for a reference to said law banning sex between people in professional relationships?
I wanted to know why you care because you said above, “If Schaap was caught having an affair with a grown woman […] …no story here for me.” And make no mistake, she was a grown woman, not a child.
I agree that Jack is a hypocrite, a no-good rotten sinner (like myself in so many ways) and that he should be banned from the pulpit. But is 10 years or more in prison a proper punishment for having sex with a woman not his wife?
Jack and the young woman went to Illinois and had sex when she was a few days shy of her 17th birthday. That was pretty stupid of them, because it is perfectly legal in Indiana and Michigan for a 16 year old to have consensual sex with an adult, but not in Illinois, where you have to be 17. But as far as I know, Jack is not charged with violating Illinois law, as nobody pressed charges there, but with violating federal law in an obscure interpretation, in that he took a minor across state lines for illegal sex, which is a 10 year felony, even if the illegal sex act was a misdemeanor. In other words, the punishment is for a technicality and does not match the crime, therefore is an unconstitutionally illegal “cruel and unusual punishment” which should be challenged in court.
Sorry, it was a professional relationship. Most states forbid sexual acts between the professional and the client/patient/student/church member
Any claim to the contrary is false.
Even if sixteen were the age of consent there, when the other party is WAY over 18, and in a position of authority, it results in a legal gray area. It is not a clear case of “oh, she’s a consenting grown woman..”
One of the few comments on this string that make any rational and common sense. Of course I believe that what Jack Schaap did was wrong. BUT this was not a ten year old girl. If you think that many 17 year old girls are icons of virtue then you live in a different country than I do. His crime was taking her across state lines – not having sex with her. Yes, he was very wrong – but the sex was not necessarily the criminal part of this. Many of the comments on here are hateful lashings out at a group that believes differently than you do. WHY should Jack Schaap pay a heavier penalty than others for what is more than anything else a technicality in the law – transporting her across state lines. Hell, if he hadn’t been in Northern Indiana where several states meet in a short distance this would never have been a public issue. In fact, I looked it up and First Baptist Church of Hammond is only minutes from Illinois – MINUTES. Jack Schaap lost his church and his hard earned stature – forever. This is punishment enough. And yes, before you say it, I have four children and if my 17 year old committed this act I would be angry but would not blame the entirety of this act on the pastor. You folks need to join the real world and realize this girl DOES have some culpability – she is a consenting individual who was old enough to know better. Once again, Schaap should be ashamed and has been fired and will never again be what he was. Punishment enough.
The person who is truly an adult and the person who holds a position of authority or power is always the person with the greater responsibility to do the right thing. Actions have consequences. If he had lived as he preached, he wouldn’t have to worry about whether it was “fair” to be prosecuted. No one would want to.
Correct and the law has a stiff penalty for taking minors across state lines. What he did, regardless of the age of consent, is relevant to the sentence he received. Should he get ten years? I don’t know and I will leave it to the judge to decide the proper sentence.
Amen.
Bruce,
This is my first post since you came back and, as a Baptist preacher/pastor, I might surprise you. I think that he should get more than the minimum sentence. Since he is 55 years old, I would like to see him get 15 years with no chance of parole. If he makes it to 70, I think that would be sufficient to him and he could still be useful to the Lord if he has truly repented.
My thoughts on the “goods” that he has done, with the great position that he was given, then comes great responsibility. This was not just a janitor at FBC, Hammond, this was the spiritual shepherd that God had placed in that position and he violated it. His attorneys seem to go to great lengths to make sure that the court knew of the “age of consent” for Illinois, Indiana and Michigan. However, this was also not a couple of 17 year old kids rolling around in the backseat of a car or a 20 year old boy and a 16 year old girl eiher. This was a man over 50 and a girl under 18 and that is inexcusable. He betrayed the trust that a lot of people had in him and there is no telling the damage that has been done in a lot of peoples lives by his actions. I think that to think there are just a few (the girl, her family and his family) who are hurting, that is a very ignorant view. Thousands of people across this country will not trust their pastors because of the failures of this one. And that is sad because most men of God are good, honorable men who are honestly trying to do good. There are a few “Elmer Gantry”s out there, but not many.
You may disagree with that, but I think that if you were to honestly look back at your ministry, you would have to say that the good, far outweighs the bad.
Yes, I think, in general, I did a lot of good as a pastor. However, the type of religion I taught was emotionally and mentally harmful to people so I carry great guilt over that. I consider any form of fundamentalist religion to be harmful and anyone who becomes deeply involved with it will likely be hurt. There are other forms of Christianity that are not harmful and people need to be encouraged to seek out these forms. I am not against personal religion or spirituality. I recognize most people believe in God and need or want a spiritual connection.
This may be Schaap’s only act of sexual misconduct BUT he was a control freak who harmed countless people. (as was his father-in-law before him and as are many IFB and Evangelical pastors) His “sins” are many but most of his “sins” are not criminal.
I couldn’t agree more Bruce! IFB are harmful and run by a bunch of control freaks who do not walk with God! It’s all about $$$$ and power! Was in them way too long! Jack should serve his time and quit with the excuses! Many of us are stressed with our jobs and tired from long hours…we don’t molest children!
Because he was in a position of authority, abused his connection as a counselor, and repeated the behavior numerous times, I believe he should get a sentence just as harsh as anyone else. This was not an affair between equals in any way.
Unfortunately, once again, people are confusing crimes with wrong doing. We live in a nation of laws. By the way, I’m not an “IFB” not even sure what that is – but you people sound far more judgmental than the people you say are so harmful??? I will do some digging on this IFB thing but I do know a little about some of the things First Baptist Church of Hammond has done for poor folks. I heard they even operate a rescue mission for the poorest of folks there in Hammond – not sure if this is true but that’s what I heard. Maybe before you point your judgmental finger at others and calling out the sins of others you should do what Christ admonished and examine yourselves before you cast the first stone. If you are Christians then I want no part of you.
If you don’t know anything about the IFB you might want to might want to do some reading on it before you comment. You haven’t read any other post on this site besides this one. You do know I was an Evangelical pastor for 25 years and I am now an atheist? Please read this series http://brucegerencser.net/series/jack-hyles-and-jack-schaap/
I notice a lot of Christians harp about not only forgiving molester pastors but also restoring them. Why restoration? Where is that in the bible? Ananias and Sapphira didn’t get any chance at restoration. Who decides who gets to be restored? A lot of Christians think if a molester pastor isn’t restored, then Satan wins. Rather I see it as the opposite, you give someone like that another chance to molest or cheat or embezzle again, then Satan definitely wins.
Out of the whole Bible you can only come up with Ananias and Sapphira? That’s the best you can do? What about the Apostle Peter – just to name one of many. If you recall he cursed and swore and denied Christ. Forgiveness and restitution are common themes throughout the Bible. David was an adulterer and a murderer and yet was restored – perhaps not to the great stature he was before his sin but definitely restored.
@Chikirin. They only ‘restoring’ guideline that made sense to me was C. H. Spurgeon;s. The way I remember it, when the repentance becomes as known as the sin, then he can be restored.
As far as Schaap goes, I feel a medium-heavy sentence of about 7 to 8 years.
I’ve been scratching my head about this for a long time. In many professions, you can lose your license or get dis-barred and that means you can never work in that profession ever again. Not so with the pastor profession. Pastor goes to a hooker? not only is he forgiven, he’s restored to the pulpit. Why is it so important that these guys get restored to their former positions? There’s no shortage of pastors and bible college graduates to take their places.
Let me clear something up for you. When they talk about restoration, its not being restored to the pulpit. They want the offender to repent and admit he’s messed up and ask for forgiveness and then the relationship with those he has hurt (friends, family, coworkers) can be restored. He can’t ever be in the pulpit again and he actually is never allowed to be at that church again either.
Actually, countless pastors, ARE restored to the ministry after committing crimes or committing “sins”. Jim Bakker, Ted Haggard, and Jimmy Swaggart to name three. I know of IFB pastors who committed sexual sins and left the ministry and are now pastoring again. Anyone can start a church and call themselves Pastor. David Hyles, a serial adulterer, son of Jack Hyles, and brother-in-law to Jack Schaap, pastored several churches before he was finally put out to pasture. And now, all these years later, he is “back” and talking about ministering and helping people. http://brucegerencser.net/2012/10/serial-adulterer-david-hyles-has-been-restored/
Bruce – your keen insight and knowledge of the sins of the Hyles’ and Schaap’s is very enlightening. Not sure what’s biblical or holy or Christlike about it – but definitely entertaining. Have u nothing better to do? No really, you can name all of the sinning pastors in a neat row, explain how they’re still menacing, and even direct to websites which belch out more of the same. To each his own but I would be careful because we have ALL sinned and I am glad that the Lord has cast my sins far from me and sees only the blood of Christ. I’m sure you would see more.
No I do not have anything better to do…and, evidently you have nothing better to do than defend pastors who misuse and abuse people.
Evangelical Christians purport to have God living inside them…yet they “sin” (a word I do not use) just like us unwashed uncircumcised Philistines. If your kind want to admit that you are not in any way different from nonbelievers, I will stop pointing out their “sin.”
That is probably how it should be. It may be that way for the denomination you are familiar with. But not in the ones I am familiar with. I remember Jimmy Swaggart being told to step down from the pulpit for one year because of his sin. He left the denomination instead and kept preaching.
It is a power trip and the fact that many don’t know how to do anything else. Look at Bruce’s comment and link for further information.
Dear Bruce,
I have a (Christian) friend who drives himself nuts watching the money grubbing TV preachers. We tell him to stop watching them but he is addicted. In the same way, you are probably not helping yourself by reading and writing about Christian crazies. I sincerely recommend that you stop writing about people who are wrong and concentrate on demonstrating that your philosophy is correct.
Your friend,
bill
Bill,
I am not like your friend.
I do write a fair bit about my philosophy and worldview. That said, part of my “mission” here is to help people who are considering leaving Christianity or who have already left Christianity. It is important for me to give voice to their struggle and I do that by taking a hard look at Evangelicalism. Those people you call Christian crazies dominate American culture and have maimed, hurt, and destroyed countless people. If my email inbox is any indication there are a lot of hurting people who have had their lives turned upside down by Evangelical churches, pastors, and beliefs. (I make no distinction between an Evangelical and Fundamentalist. All Evangelicals are theological fundamentalists)
So…I try to be balanced. In recent days, Jack Schaap and First Baptist have been in the news, so I have written about them. Posts about Schaap/Hyles make up 2% of the blog posts.
Thanks for caring.
Bruce
My two cents worth.
I come here to hear your opinion on what is happening as well as your philosophy and world view. You seem to follow a philosophy I try to apply to my own life: To thine ownself be true. I may not agree with you, but I like the way you make me think.
Thank you my friend.
Of course, Bruce has an answer and is right. Of course.
You are quickly wearing out your welcome. If you have something constructive to add to the discussion, please do so.
Hi Bruce,
I tend to agree with Chikrin above. I found a site discussing the requirements for an elder, and it says: “By ‘blameless’ the Scripture does not mean that a man must be sinless in order to be an overseer in the church of God. To be blameless is to be irreproachable. No one should be able to lay a charge against an overseer and make it stick. To be blameless does not mean that one is able to evade accusation or conviction. Rather, a man is blameless or above reproach when his words and conduct conform to the holy commandments of God in Scripture so that he cannot justly be accused or convicted of any sin.” Clearly a charge can be placed on this guy, so he should be “disbarred” from being in any kind of ministerial position, forever. I don’t think he should go to jail, that won’t help the girl. I’d like to see him pay a PUNISHING fine, part of which is for the girl to get proper counseling and help with her education. The rest of the fine should go to assist some proper non-religious counseling facilities. Let him work it off, and be punished by his wife—-him rotting in jail and becoming a better criminal is not restitution for the girl.
Using your definition of blameless, and I don’t necessarily disagree with it, most of the pastors, deacons, and church leaders I know are not fit to hold church office. Even those who preach up this definition often overlook their own sins.
That said, Schaap must go to jail. I am undecided about how long…but he must, for the sake of others considering such a path, go to prison.
I don’t think there is any restitution that Schaap can make to the girl. He took from her what can never be regained. He robbed her of innocence and her trust in the leaders of her church. There are some behaviors that must be punished, and sexual “Sins” are one such behavior.
As to Schaap being qualified ever again for the ministry…the question remains was he qualified BEFORE this happened? (again using the Evangelical parlance you are familiar with) By all accounts, Schaap, like his father-in-law before him, was an ego-maniac, narcissist, and a control freak. (as many preachers are, including myself when I was in the ministry)
I am of the opinion that if Church members were every allowed to see behind the curtain they would be dismayed at what they found. They would find that I Tim 3 is a great ideal for pastors (and all people) but most pastors are far, far away from the ideal. Every study I have read tells us that Christians and non-Christians are pretty much the same when it comes to morality and ethics. We all should aspire to do better, knowing that we all are frail, feeble human beings.
I wander sometimes if the emotional abuse he inflicted on teens and his entire congregation wasn’t close to the damage that he did to this poor girl. I think of 35 years of my life wandering if I was really saved,etc and worrying if I wasn’t right with God I would wind up in the bad place.
But even worse, I remember when my homosexual cousin died of aids in the nineties worry that he was in hell. That I didn’t drive five hours and go witness to him on his death bed. My late mother in law was Mormon and a true friend. I worried she was in Hell. Her pentecostal sister claimed she said a prayer or something and then after the funeral never paid back my wife and her sisters all the back rent she mooched off their mothers. I have never raped or abused physically. Never have been beat up. But honestly I can’t imagine it being worse than the constant thoughts that loved ones are suffering for eternity. My dad is agnostic and 80 and I enjoy every minute of his being cantankerous and bitching. I will miss him when he is gone and love him so much. I will have peace that although I will never see him again he isn’t suffering just helping something else grow or a part of a rock. I appreciate life more because of my secular world view now. I am so very happy being free of religion.
He is an adult. He knew his actions were wrong. He deserves to suffer consequences for them that are in accordance with the law. The fact that he is a pastor should have no standing whatsoever. He committed a crime and should have to pay for it just like any other tax paying citizen of the United States would. 140 letters of ‘recommendation’ shouldn’t even be considered in the matter. If they are considered, I believe this would send the message to anyone that if they got 140 people to write positive letters then they should receive a lighter sentence as well.
Yes, some crimes are such that the punishment should not be ameliorated by letters testifying to prior good acts.
Some crimes, like perhaps someone stealing, might deserve a look at the persons life to determine a proper sentence.
Generally, I support restitution rather than incarceration for property crimes. However, when it comes it capital crimes like rape, sexual abuse, murder, etc…such crimes are such that they deserve proper punishment. We can debate if ten years is proper punishment but to let him off with a slap on the wrist sends the wrong message about these kind of crimes.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Judges OFTEN take into account the entirety of a person life when deliberating on a just sentence for a breach of the law. Every day across this nation, people who support those who are facing sentencing will write letters to the judge in praise of the accused. Right or wrong it happens every single day in this country.
I do not think that stress is an excuse. That was his job, he should have stepped down. Under no circumstances should anyone have an “excuse” for this behavior. The fact that he said this in court tells me that he is not truly repentant for his actions. He’s not ready to admit his sinful nature took control because he allowed it to. Someone of his position doesn’t enter into this type of behavior overnight. He either was arrogant enough to think he wouldn’t get caught…or he thought about this for a long time prior to the first offense. He would have had to reason through his conscience first. That would be very difficult and require a LOT of self discussion. Even entertaining those thoughts are sinful. The sin began with the first thought.
I really enjoyed this man’s preaching, but it is all tainted now. I don’t ever care to hear another message.
I do feel that because of his position and influence…he should get the maximum sentence as an example to ALL those in leadership…you CANNOT get away with this behavior. But, if they do give him a lighter sentence – I will rest in the truth in scripture, vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the LORD. God is the best Judge – He knows the whole truth and is the best Judge, not I.
My wife graduated from Hyles Anderson College, and as my brothers put it, I did a 2 year sentence there. She was a Hammond Baptist girl, and I was the one who made the college write 2 new rules because of us. All this to say, we saw things from the inside. We saw a female friend go to Hyles for counseling,her husband was physically abusing her, only to have him tell her she should be ashamed for even thinking of leaving. Her job is to support her Hyles College husband. FYI, we helped her escape and move to another state.
We saw husbands in the church who would not even buy a car unless Hyles said it was ok. I also witnessed many midnight runs where male college students were taken from their dorm to the bus station because of inappropriate activity.
Our 7 year old daughter was molested by a star Hammond Baptist student and Hyles Anderson attendee. As a leader in the youth group with Dave Hyles, some things stuck with him. After serving a 2 year sentence, he got out, and surprise, surprise! He did it again.
This church was founded as a cult. Schaap lived the cult, then lead the cult. Not much is mentioned about Jack Hyles and his sex games, which is ok. Let him rest in peace, unlike his life. Yes, Schaap should be held to a hire standard, and yes, he should serve whatever time a busted first time sex offender gets, plus added years because of his role in authority. But, the cult controlling of the mind has to stop!!!
My wife and I will celebrate our 35th year of marriage this year. I give NO credit to any church influence. Quite the opposite. Thanks for the forum to finally vent.
Thanks for commenting.
Like you, Polly and I will be married 35 years this year. We may have started with Jesus but it is not Jesus that has helped us sustain our marriage all these years.
I went to HAC from 79-83..graduated. Saw many things that i questioned,(i wasa new convert)…never saw any of this stuff….feel bad for Mrs. Schaap and this poor young lady. I fear their pain has been dismissed or trivialized. I loved Bro. Schaap, but sawq him grow , in my opinion arrogant as pastor. What kind of power freak has church staff set up this thrist. He broke lawsin 3 states..sad.
I am a 60 year old woman whose husband cheated on me for 10 years. And with two whores, the second whore he was with for the entire 10 years. Our oldest son caught them in Feb.2010. I learned about his Adultery on March 8,2010. We were married in 1977. The last 3 (almost) years have been the worst years of my life. I have been sick for almost the entire 10 years. My husband was a deacon in our church, he was in the Jail Ministry and he was in church all the time and he read his bible twice a day. One of the lines he fed his whore is ” after we have sex we will confess it, and God will forgive us.” That way the next time we have sex will be the first time in God’s eyes. And guess what she believed him. 5 months before he was caught he asked me to loan his “friend” $50,000.00 of my inheritance money. And me being the giving trusting wife I did. I do give her credit she is paying me back.
We were given a series of cd’s on Adultery preached by Jack Schaap. One of them is really hard on the Adulterer. I think that Jack Schaap should have to listen to that cd morning noon and night for the entire time he is in prison. When I learned what he did every sermon we had of Jack’s went into the garbage. He has most likely hurt so many couples and or individuals with his sin.
Shame on him for taking the innocence of a child. He should rot in Hell for that. He knew exactly what he was doing. And saying I was under stress of health and church issues, I only have two words for that, BULL SHIT! You have a problem buddy take it to your wife and God. You jerk you have destroyed so many good people because you couldn’t keep your dick in your pants.
If I had my way every Adulterer and Adulteress should have what they are tattooed across their faces for all to see. And that includes my husband. Who took In Sickness and in Health and stomped and spit on. My husband destroyed the sanctity of our marriage.
My health is no better but we are working on staying together. There are still trust issues. And faith issues.
Jack Schaap deserves more that 10 years. I am sad for Mrs. Schaap, but Jack should rot in jail for a very very very long time.
so sorry for your pain….we men can let these temporal passions control usand devast those around us. If we only saw the tears first..
Thanks Mike. Not sure if seeing my tears would have helped. Begging him to come home after our oldest son got into trouble with the law didn’t bring him home, I doubt my tears wouldn’t have.
Both my sons went HAC but neither graduated. The oldest got kicked out for challenging the rules and hanging out with the “wrong” crowd. He is good and has a very well paying job. My youngest went there too, but only stayed 1 1/2 years. His first year was a scholarship he won and the 2nd year he decided he wanted to attend a credited school. He too is doing very well and have a good paying job. Neither of my boys fell into the HAC trap. They can think for themselves.
Our Pastor is a Hyles Graduate he preaches Jack Hyles all the time. He was right behind Jack Schaap all the way until his fall from grace. He has apologized to all the people he counsels for having us listen to Jack’s cd’s on marriage. He preaches some odd things sometimes but I am smart enough to take what I need when I need it.
I would like to state that not all IFB pastors are money hungry control freaks. In my expirence, many are sacrificial, loving men trying to share the love of Christ with their community. I attend an IFB church and it is the place that God speaks to me. I have lived in this town for 9 years and attended my church for 8 years. In that time, I have never been presented with the gospel by any other church in town. Our church family recently bought our pastor a new car. His old one was literally falling apart with over 200,000 miles. He has a car allotment through the church, but every month he put it back in the plate. He has never bought a full priced new suit and had lawn furniture in his living room for several years because he and his wife sold their living room furniture to raise money for a building banquet. He is not perfect and makes mistakes. He will be the tell you he is a sinner at best and at best a sinner. I’m trying to pridefully build him up, but I want people to know what a IFB preacher who is filled with the Holy Spirit is like.
As far as Bro. Shcaap is concerned, I think he should get more than the minimum sentence. As a pastor and a leader, he should be held to a higher standard. Your good doesn’t outweigh your bad. The Bible very clearly teaches that.
Your pastor should not have to do those things. It is great that he wants to, but he should not have to. After all, the laborer is worthy of his hire, yes? Whatever I might think of religion in general, I think pastors who work for churches should be paid a good enough wage that allows them to adequately provide for their family. This includes health insurance and other benefits that most everyone outside the church receives. If a church is not large enough to support the pastor full-time then he should be free to work outside of the church AND the church should not expect him to work full-time at the church.
My personal opinion is that I think it would be better if all pastors were bivocational. This would force them to live among the people and stay connected to the real world. As a pastor who worked full-time as a pastor most of the 25 years I was in the ministry, I know it is easy to lose touch of the real world. You begin to think having the leisure to read and study and pray hours a day is what everyone should be doing. I had to remind myself that the people I pastored worked all day just like I did. Way too many pastors are disconnected from reality and it shows in the demands they make of people.
I have no doubt there are good IFB pastors. However, I do think the IFB worldview and its disdain for science and intellectual pursuit is harmful and I would never recommend someone go to an IFB church. There are better alternatives, churches where you are free to be who you are and you are not required to walk lock-step with the pastor and his theological beliefs. That said, I know the IFB church appeals to certain people and if that’s what they want…who am I to object.
Thanks for commenting.
Stranger – would you say the same thing if someone who spent his/her life doing “good works” happened to, ONE TIME IN HIS/HER LIFE, murder someone h/she wasn’t too fond of? And this went on over a period of weeks – it wasn’t a one-time thing…or just a moment of weakness. Get a clue from the clue bag.
How do you know what his desired were for?
He has polished his shaft from the pulpit.
Notice the wording about how the sexual activity was against Illinois law and Michigan law. What about the highly accepted group of laws that Fundamentalist Christians live by? Adultery being bad and only being allowed to sleep with your spouse. That is even more strict than the Old Testament.
Yet the majority of the document is all about his good works, but for those small paragraphs where his lawyers wrote out what he did wrong, they make no connection to how he broke the moral codes of his culture.
Can’t have the cake and eat it too. Or better yet, can’t say you are a Christian yet deny your own laws.
Bruce
I here sometimes that Jack Schaap will burn in hell for his sins. But in the christian religion it isn’t jack Schaap that goes to hell it is the non believers like Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins., Also followers of other religions.(In fundamentalism it is liberal christians as well). Jack Schaap I am sure has asked for forgiveness but is covered in general by once saved always saved. Carl Sagan was a skeptic(like myself now I use to be a fundamentalist) and is being tortured.Personal even if that is true I would rather be in hell. I object to torture here on earth and I object to it in the afterlife if there is one. It is unjust period. As bad as the crime jack Schaap committed I do not feel he should burned alive in this life or the life after if it exists. Now off my soap box. Question for you Bruce. Does the Bible violate the geneva conventions?
Jeff
Good question.
But you are right, Evangelicals have a get out of hell free card. No matter their crime, Jesus and forgiveness is just a prayer away.
This thinking corrupts how people think. Years ago I did the funeral of a girl who was raped and murdered. (my first funeral) Of course, the family wanted to know about forgiving the perpetrator. Back then I told them it was important to forgive the man. These days? Hell no, I wouldn’t forgive the guy. Let him rot in jail for what he did.
We have to come terms with these kinds of things lest they consume us BUT forgiveness should be reserved for those who deserve it.
Bad Christians go to Heaven, good atheists go to Hell seems to be how they see things.
What I wanna know is why do u have to label this pagw the Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap series. Jack Hyles has nothing to do with this. So please leave his name out of it.
Jacky Hyles was an adulterer, as was his son, as was his son in-law, as was…. Shall I go on? Hyles has everything to do with the scandalous behavior that has gone on at First Baptist Church. His corrupt doctrine, self promotion, and aggrandizing behavior has been duplicated by many IFB pastors. IFB churches are routinely scandalized by sexual misconduct, all the while preaching an emotionally and mentally damaging message that makes people think they are poor, helpless, sinful worms. Except for the preachers, right? They are the Men God… Funny how these Men of God seem just as sinful as those they preach at. (As Jack Hyles, David Hyles, Jack Schaap and co. clearly show)
I encourage you to read http://brucegerencser.net/2012/08/the-legacy-of-jack-hyles/
This is for Wisconsin Joe’s March 9th comment. “Jack Schaap lost his church and his hard earned stature – forever. This is punishment enough. And yes, before you say it, I have four children and if my 17 year old committed this act I would be angry but would not blame the entirety of this act on the pastor. You folks need to join the real world and realize this girl DOES have some culpability – she is a consenting individual who was old enough to know better. Once again, Schaap should be ashamed and has been fired and will never again be what he was. Punishment enough.”
Shame on you! I am shocked you could be so passive with what this vile man did. Wow “he” lost his church and he was fired and this should be punishment enough! Yes the girl has culpability and I am sure she knew what she did was wrong. But despite the fact she turned 17 does not make her a mature consenting adult.she is a child deceived by an old disgusting perverted man in authority. I know if this happened to your daughter I hope you would think differently. You are also not thinking of the thousands of couples and women this man counseled. Over the years he had to have been having disgusting thoughts with these women. You have not thought what is going through their minds. They have been deceived to. All of their counseling was a lie. I know because that is how I feel. He is no better than my adultering husband. There went 2 years of marriage counseling, it was all a lie. All the hours and hours of listening to all his “Marriage cd’s and books” read were all a lie and wasted time! My heart breaks for Cindy Schaap and their children and grandchildren. Cindy is living in Hell right now. Her heart is broken because the man she loved and trusted is Adultering Scum! Her marriage is a lie, her mind goes back to the times when she traveled to speaking engagements and she has questioned whether or not if her husband was cheating then too. Or when he traveled to other churches to preach, she is now thinking was he alone or did he have someone with him. She can no longer believe or trust him. He has destroyed all that was precious and pure in their marriage. One time or many times makes no difference to we wife’s who have been cheated on. Think about Cindy, think about her adult children. Think about the spouses of those married children. And how they reply to their children when they ask about grandpa. Lets just slap Jack’s hand and say, you have been punished enough. He could never be punished enough! He needs to be out of their lives for a very long time so they can heal and try to move on with their lives.
Personally as bad as Jack Schaap’s behavior I feel the frightening of young children with damnation is worse child abuse. Sorry I said it. Making them watch for example the left behind series in the 1970′s or the Ron Ormond movies is very scarring. I had nightmares for years over those movies. Personally to this day I have forms of post traumatic stress disorder from it. Personally I think the severe restrictions on sexuality cause preachers like jack schaap to fall. In his book on dating he said he first held hands with a girl after he got married. Somehow I believe that. IOf course not all of them but enough. Hope Schaap finds some secular help in prison.
I think the movies, the hell fire and brimstone sermons,the constants focus on sin and worthlessness,and the high pressure altar calls, all have an immense mental and emotional effect on people. Many of us are scarred for life.
I am in an unique place because I was a victim and a victimizer. I am angry over the former and guilt-filled over the latter. This blog is a part of my penance and my mental and emotional recovery.
I am not condoning crime or sin.
But the Bible allows us to ask for mercy.
We deserve all the punishment given for all our crime
and sin.
God is a loving and forgiving God. He says to come
to him for mercy.
May God give all of us the correct amount of justice,
judgement, grace, and mercy.
The problem is…Schaap is not standing before God. He is standing before a Federal Judge who is going to judge him according to U.S. law not the laws of the Bible. God has nothing to do the sentence Schaap will receive. Is he going to send a letter to the judge with a sentencing recommendation? Of course not.
Seems like you have the IFB people shitting literal bricks, Bruce. Good. Hypocrites with tons of pastors that have abused teenagers and young people, both sexually and emotionally. This needs to stop and if exposing it to the light and talking about it makes it stop, all the better.
Hope the judge invalidates his plea agreement based upon the fact that he and his capering minions are trying to put pressure on the judge. I would love to see him serve the entire amount that is the usual guideline for violation of the Mann act.
His supporters seem unable to realize it’s not just about him having an affair or not. He violated federal law Don’t violate federal law if you can’t do the time. He’ll have plenty to consider in prison, where sexual predators that prey on the young are held in low regard by the other inmates. Plus I’m sure there’s plenty of prisoners just dying to make his acquaintance.
Today is the 12th. Wonder what the sentence will be and if the victim spoke at the sentencing hearing?
They rescheduled again to March 20, 2013 http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/hammond/hammond-church-ex-pastor-sentencing-slated-march/article_3aa4db00-3c52-57a0-82b2-40a54768877f.html
The defenses of Schaap remind me of how much critical thinking skills are compromised in the IFB church movement. I have no doubt these same Schaapites think a Catholic priest who had sex with a teenage boy should receive the harshest penalty possible. But, wait, he only diddled one boy. Look at all the good he did? Sounds sick to me…just like it does with Schaap.
I don’t know what the “right” sentence is for Schaap. I do trust that the judge will do the right thing and that he will not be swayed by the 100 atta-boys outweigh 1 aw-shit line of thinking. Sometimes, previous good conduct matters.But not in cases of abuse.
Of course, I don’t think Schaap is anywhere near the saint his disciples think he is. Like with his father-in-law, people confuse the myth with reality.