As always, the comments on Facebook are entertaining. Here are a few of them:

Good reminder of what most of our world believes…

Wow. What willful ignorance. Need to pray.

Thanks for sharing! Our God is GREATER! No weapon formed against you shall prosper,And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, And their righteousness is from Me,”
Says the Lord. Isaiah 54:17 New King James Version (NKJV)

What a sad, sad man. It is the ultimate in arrogance and conceit for a non-believer to claim they know anything about God or His word. There are so many holes in his statements big enough to drive a Mack truck through. I wonder if anyone has challenged the same tired false statements every secularist glories in perpetuating. How does one pray for such a man except to pray, “Lord, open his eyes.”

Need to pray for Bruce, that God will pierce his heart with the truth…..a fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. (Proverbs 18:2)

It’s funny, you can almost see him squirming while he is writing this lol. Basically doing everything he can to run away from God and his accountability before God, but his conscience won’t let him. It’s certainly interesting to see life from a humanists perspective and, like everyone else, just hates God.  It’s interesting to note that he hasn’t got much wrong about your views – the problem is, I agree with them where he clearly hates them. Putting his own views before God’s and living by his own standards. It’s certainly telling as to where society is at these days.

I guess he chooses to ignore Colossians 2:9.

What a sad report. We in South Ga will still fight and spread the teachings of the Bible. Jesus was perfect, he is perfect! The Bible has never changed. We will pray for the lost. The writer of this article is a lost soul and unfortunately many people will listen to him. Satan and his army roams the earth today and we are in spiritual warfare. We must be ready and studied to defend our faith and share God’s word.

I posted a comment, I hope that it starts the road to clearer thinking for this guy. Sinful arogance is REALLY difficult to swallow. But Ken, if people hate you this much then know you suffer with the Lord, which is worth it!

You are right – by knowing what they are “preaching”, we can be more specific in our prayers. But the heresy represented here is frightening.

Sad, reading his bio, he claims to be a former pastor who turned his back on God.

Remeber Ken, if the world hates you, remember it has hated Him first.

Very neat article. Makes one realize that the humanists have the same goal as Christians do (influence the younger generations). The sad part is, his argument is fairly good for uneducated Christians….

Secular humanism changes all the time but God’s Word stays the same.

Quite evident he has not actually read or studied the Bible. There is no greater freedom than being in Christ!!!!!

Just wrote a quick response to him on his blog. Man this guy is lost!

I read part of it, but had to stop. Obviously, the writer’s mind is blinded.

Well what is sad is that the author presents in information in such a compelling way that the uninformed or uneducated could easily buy into his arguments.

It’s painful to read these kinds of posts because it reminds me of me when I was living in ignorance of the Truth. God, battle for Bruce’s soul Lord, and please turn Bruce from darkness to light. Draw Him with the great love of your perfect Son and His cross, and plant your word in His heart, In Jesus name, Amen.

Oh my word, this brought tears to my eyes and broke my heart. Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

“Ham is a God said it and I believe it Christian.” That may be the single nicest thing anyone has said about anyone else while trying to insult them.

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Why Evangelical Christians Believe the Bible
2. What Do Christians Really Believe About God, Jesus, and the Bible

Ken “Hambone” Ham, operator of the Creation Museum, and a noted young earth creationist (YEC), states in no uncertain terms that no one is good. Of course, in classic Hambone style he contradicts himself just a few words later.

Ham wrote:

Recently atheists and other secular humanists decided to promote a “National Day of Reason” in opposition to the National Day of Prayer, which was held last Tuesday. These secularists stated that “We are trying to make a better world on our own by emphasizing good works and good deeds on the day” (emphasis added).

I couldn’t help but smile when I saw this statement about secularists wanting to do “good deeds.” So how does an atheist or agnostic determine what is “good”?

I’m reminded of Luke 18 where the rich young ruler came to Jesus:

Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Luke 18:18–19)

There is only one absolute standard by which anyone can determine what is “good,” and that is from the absolute authority who is all “good”—God! Outside of such an absolute standard, “good” is whatever you want to make it to be (if you can get away with it)—it is totally subjective. Some people think it is “good” to steal, for instance. When a culture abandons the absolute standard for what is “good” (as this culture is progressively doing in throwing out God’s Word), then we will see people doing what is right in their own eyes—as we are increasingly experiencing. The recent announcement by the president of the USA in support of “gay” marriage is just one such example—he abandoned the absolute standard for what is “good” and now is wanting to impose his subjective opinion on the nation.

Ham has no love for atheists, agnostics, humanists, deists, liberal Christians, and practioners of non-Christian religions. In fact, he has no love for some who fly under the same Evangelical flag as he does. Ham requires that Evangelicals be circumcised on the 6th literal day just like he was before he will consider them part of the true-blue, blessed by God, sanctified Christian church. Ham is a God said it and I believe it Christian. In his worldview there is no room for discussion, debate, difference of opinion, or nuance. Ken God has spoken!

In honor of Ken Ham, I want to take the Bible exactly as written. Ken uses Luke 18:18,19 to “prove” that no one is good. He could have used other verses like Romans 3:10:12:

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

In using Luke 18:18,19 Ham has a conundrum on his hands. In this passage Jesus says very clearly that no one is good. He is responding to the rich young ruler who called him “good teacher.” Jesus replied:

Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

Jesus makes it clear that no human being is good. Only God is good. Now Jesus is talking with the rich younger ruler as a human being. Since no human being is good then Jesus is not good.

Of course the standard Evangelical comeback is that Jesus was God and human so he was good. But what about his human nature? At best, all one could claim is that Jesus had a split nature, that he was good and bad.

Looking at it this way it seems to me that Jesus was just like every human being I have ever met. Not the God part, of course. Jesus wasn’t God and neither is anyone else. Jesus was a mixture of good and bad just like every human being is. All of us are capable of doing good things and doing bad things.

Evangelicals like Ham, if pressed, must admit that their theology says EVERY human being, Christian or not, is bad. In the delusional world of Ken Ham, good only comes from God. God enables human beings to do good, even non-Christian human beings. God gets all the credit for the good in the world and human beings/Satan get all the blame for the bad.

This works out perfect for God. He can do whatever he wants and if it turns out bad it is our fault or Satan’s fault. In O.J. Simpson parlance, the glove never fits.

Ham believes the Bible is the absolute, infallible, impeccable standard of good. I suppose he makes some attempt to argue away the passages that promote or condone slavery, incest, prostitution, and killing anyone who doesn’t worship the Christian God. No Christian believes every word of the Bible, not without resorting to some sort of Bible-gymnastics.

Many of us have come to the conclusion that the “good” God of the Christian bible is anything but. He certainly can be good, but he is often a mean spirited, capricious, arrogant son-of-a-bitch. He is a God, according to the Bible,  who is quite willing to use violence to get what he wants. We should be glad such a good God does not exist.

If the Bible is God’s absolute  standard by which good is measured, why do Christians disagree with one another about what constitutes “good.” Ham accuses atheists of making it up as they go……..is it any different among Christians?

Every human being determines for themselves what is good and bad. Our upbringing, exposure to religious or philosophical teachings, social environment, education, and social contracts we make with one another, help us determine what moral and ethical standard we will live by.

Ham, and Christians like him, demand an absolute source for determining good and bad. They put their faith in a book that has not had an entry written in it for over 1900 years. The world has changed dramatically since Jesus walked the shores of Galilee. While the Bible may offer us an occasional nugget of wisdom, it has little to say to us when it comes to morality and ethics in this modern day. In fact, it teaches things that thinking people now abhor. (though I am rethinking the whole concubine thing)

We have outgrown the bondage of the Bible. Where Ham sees degradation and people doing whatever they want to do, I see freedom. The freedom to do good things, and yes the freedom to do bad things.

In classic homophobic fashion Ham focuses on the issue of gay marriage. President Obama’s support of gay marriage is a sign to Ken Ham that we have abandoned the absolute standard of good and have instead turned to a subjective standard of good. (situational ethics)

He is right on the first part. We HAVE abandoned the Bible standard of good. We have weighed the Bible’s treatment of homosexuals in the balance of decency and civil rights and found it wanting.

It is a sign of progress when we no longer consider a class of people evil, reprobates, and the enemy of God. Homosexuals are human beings, just like me, Ken Ham, and everyone else. They are capable of doing good and bad just like any human being is. As far as them being married? How does two men or two women marrying each other affect my life or Ken Ham’s life? It is a non-issue. It makes no difference at all.

The good news is this……….we are winning the battle against the Ken Ham’s of the world. The bad news is that this is a generation-long battle, a battle that my grandkids will still be fighting long after my ashes are spread along the shore of Lake Michigan. We must be strong, willing to push back at EVERY attempt to drag the world back into the constraints of the Christian Bible.

Christianity has had 2000 years to work its magic. Look at what it has given us. While I am in no way suggesting that Christianity is evil, I am suggesting that Christianity has proven to be a failed standard by which to govern people. There is a better way, a way that supports and promotes diversity and celebrates individuality. It is called secular humanism.

For those who are unsure about what I mean when I say secular humanism, let me finish this post with the Council of Secular Humanism’s answer to the “What is Secular Humanism?” question:

Secular Humanism is a term which has come into use in the last thirty years to describe a world view with the following elements and principles:

• A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
• Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
• A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
• A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
• A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
• A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
• A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Is the Christian God Good? Are Human Beings Good?
2. Am I a Good Person, I ask a Christian Friend
3. What Do Christians Really Believe About God, Jesus, and the Bible

Robert Driskell, at Creation Conversations thinks so:

People understand that the truth matters.  We base our decisions and actions on what we perceive to be true.  For instance, if someone is about to take medicine, they count on the label to be true so that they do not ingest anything harmful.  They want the truth about whether or not any cars are coming when they are about to walk across the street.  The Truth concerning our souls, and its eternal destiny, is incredibly important and merits serious investigation.

Christians consider the Bible to be the Word of God.  As such, the importance of accepting the historicity of the Bible cannot be overstated.  If Jesus is who he says he is, then we should heed his words.  If he is not who he says he is, then there is no basis for Christianity at all.  Jesus said that He is the Way to God, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6 ESV).

Jesus commissioned believers to spread God’s Word (Matthew 28:19-20) and in the book of Jude we read that we are to, “…contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints” (Jude 3 NASB).  Christians share their faith because they love people with the love of Christ, they know what it is like to be forgiven of our sins, and they want to see everyone enjoy a close personal relationship with God.  It is not a question of whether “ours is better or yours is better” but “what is the Truth?”

The Bible tells us that we are to share the Truth of God with anyone who will listen.  Many unbelievers use the misdeeds of some calling themselves Christians to dismiss the veracity of the biblical record.  It is true that some Christians, and many pretending to be Christians, have behaved in ways that did not honor God.  However, these actions were carried out contrary to the will of God, not in accordance with the way He wants us to behave. 

There are also those who dismiss the truth of the Bible because they believe science has proven it untrustworthy.  They believe that science and the biblical record are at odds with one another and that a person can accept one or the other, but not both.  This is simply not true.  Christians do not believe that science is bad.  Rather, when properly interpreted, science and the Bible complement each other.

However, when science hypothesizes as to how we may or may not have begun our existence, they have exited the realm of science and entered the realm of philosophy.  True science, the science that seeks and finds cures for diseases, etc. is a wonderful gift from God.  It should glorify Him in its endeavors.  When science has this outcome, it is perfectly compatible with the Christian faith and adds to the veracity of the Bible.

The Bible contains the truth God wants us to know.  It would be well worth the time spent to find out what it contains.

Driskell shows in this post why it is almost impossible to have a rational discussion with an Evangelical Christian. They operate from the presupposition that the Christian Bible is truth, absolute truth, nothing but the truth, so help them the Christian God.

God has spoken truth to humanity and that truth is recorded in the Bible. While I have no doubt that Driskell would agree that creation and conscience also show us truth, their truth-i-ness must conform to what the Bible says. So when scientists look at the natural world and come to a different conclusion than what is recorded in the Bible, the scientists are wrong. The Bible trumps everything.

The Evangelical Christian is not seeking for truth wherever it may be found. They believe they already have truth and their objective is to conform the natural world they live in to that truth.  Their life is not one of a journey but of a destination. Rather than following the path wherever it leads, they set out on a path predetermined by what they read in the Bible. Any “truth” that does not conform to the Bible is considered false.  That’s why we have Evangelical Christians who believe the earth is only 6-10,000 years old.

As a skeptic, I challenge Driskell’s notion of absolute truth, or even truth at all. Now, I am not some wishy-washy postmodernist who thinks everything is relative BUT I also don’t fall off the other end of the spectrum with demands for absolute truth.

What is truth? Everyone seems to have their own definition of the word. Personally, I steer away from the word truth. As a skeptic, I have come to see that my beliefs, my “truths” are based on observation and probability. I believe what I can see. I believe what sound reasonable and rational. My beliefs are always tentative. Granted, like with the Bible, I can say, with a large degree of certainty, that there is nothing more for me to learn from the Bible, it is always possible that I could be wrong. Likely? No. Possible? Sure. Since I do not possess absolute knowledge, unlike many Evangelical Christians, I can never speak in absolute terms.

The Evangelical Christian will jump on my admission above and say, “HA!! So you can’t say for certain that God does not exist?” Of course not. No thoughtful skeptic would say otherwise. Is it likely God exists? No. I suppose there is a .0000000000000001 percent chance that a God of some kind exists, but even then the chance is even less that the God is THE God of the Christian Bible.

Driskell wants everyone to know that he is not anti-science. This is akin the man at office party, after downing 10 drinks, who says with slurred speech, I am not an alcoholic. Sure……….

Driskell reframes the whole science question by saying there is such a thing as TRUE science. This is Evangispeak for “The Bible is truth and everything must be judged according to it, including science.” He is disingenuous when he says that “Christians do not believe science is bad.”  Some Christians don’t, but I am quite certain Christians like Driskell think science, secular science is bad. The key, for Driskell, is that “science and the Bible be rightly interpreted.”

In Driskell’s mind, good science glorifies God, is perfectly compatible with the Christian faith, and adds to the veracity of the Bible. Again, the Bible is the standard by which EVERYTHING is judged.

For you raised in Evangelical Christianity, this way of thinking is nothing new. You likely thought this way yourself for many years. It is hard to break free from this way of thinking.

I am going to shock some of you now. The key to breaking free is the Bible!

The Bible?

Yes, the Bible.

I agree with Driskell when he says, “The Bible contains the truth God wants us to know. It would be well worth the time spent to find out what it contains.” Well, I don’t agree with the part that says the Bible contains the truth God wants us to know but I do agree that it is “well work the time spent to find out what it contains.”

Reading the Bible for what is actually says without parsing everything through Evangelical orthodoxy goes a long way in freeing a person from the bondage of Evangelical Christianity.(and yes, I think Evangelicalism is intellectual, moral, and cultural bondage)  Asking hard questions and demanding answers is crucial. Pleas to have faith or trust God must fall on deaf ears. Appeals to ignorance will not suffice.

Once a person is free to read the Bible without Evangelical constraints, free to question at will, it is doubtful they will remain an Evangelical. They may come away with some sort of Christian belief system but it will certainly not be Evangelical. As Driskell well knows, once a person starts to say, Yea hath God said, they are on a slippery slope that leads to Bruce Gerencser hell.  

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. An Inerrant Errant Bible
2. Why Evangelical Christians Believe the Bible
3. Skeptics, Science,Creationists, and the Bible

I am the guy who can’t ever seem to just enjoy a movie. I try really hard, I really do, but inevitably I find myself looking for gaffes and mistakes in the movie.

The other day I called for my son and daughter to come into the living room….I wanted to see if they could see what I saw. I must have played and replayed the movie clip half-a-dozen times. I kept giving them more and more hints.

They have played this game many times with me. Finally, they gave up.

The scene in question was a man sitting in a car talking. The window of the car was down. I said, “look very carefully at the whites of the man’s eyes.” They still didn’t see anything. Finally I gave up and said, “Look at the whites of his eyes and you will see the reflection of the movie camera outside of the car.”

That is just how it is for me. I suspect this is due to my perfectionist, OCP tendencies. I have always been this way. If my kids had a dollar for every time I said to them, “what time was it in the scene we just watched?”, they would have a good bit of cash.  Most often, I get the rolled eyes look that says Dad can’t you just watch the movie?

The truth is, no I can’t.

A while back my counselor wanted me to watch a particular movie. He told me, “now Bruce you are going to have to turn off that analytical mind of yours.” Then he chuckled, and his chuckle told me he was thinking, “good luck with that.”

My medical doctor told me years ago that he thought  I had a mind that never seemed to shut off. That’s why I have always had trouble falling to sleep. My wife can fall asleep in 2 minutes. Oh, how I wish to be blessed with such ease of sleep. Years ago, when I was slim, trim and healthy, it took me several hours to fall asleep. I had to have a slow, methodical wind-down. These days, bad health, muscle spasms, and unrelenting pain, make sleep a rare luxury. I often wake up several times a night and on many nights I am still up when my son gets up at 5 AM to go to work.

When Polly and I first married I taught her to be aware of her surroundings. This was no man over woman type of thing. I was more concerned for her safety. I wanted her to lift her eyes and look around when she left a store and walked into a parking lot. Who is standing where? How are they acting? Who is in line at the ATM? I am convinced that many crimes occur because people simply are oblivious to their surroundings. (and this applies to matters of religion and politics. People simply don’t pay attention to what is going on around them)

When I taught my children to drive I told them it was very important to pay attention to what is going on down the road. We live in an area where most auto fatalities occur from cars running stop signs on side roads. This area is very flat and people become inattentive as they drive down flat, straight roads. That is until they run through a stop sign and someone dies. It is crucially important to pay attention to the car rolling up to side road stop sign down the road. Anticipate! Think! Are they going to stop? If they don’t, what should I do?

I also taught my children to pay attention to others when in public. Most often, this was just a matter of courtesy. Don’t walk down the middle of the store aisle. Don’t string your shopping cart across the aisle. Walk to the right when people are coming your way. Careless, inattentive people frustrate me.  Does this mean I am a better person? Nope, just means I have a lot more stress than many other people.

There are days where I wish I could just float through life with nary a care in the world.  I wish I could just watch a movie and not pay attention to the gaffes. I wish I didn’t have to analyze every article I read and every report I hear.

As more than one person has told me, “Bruce you ask to many questions. You are never satisfied.” True, on both accounts. But, this is who I am. As much as I might, at times, want it to be different, this is who I am.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2008. I bought in to all the Hope and Change. In a rare moment, I paid more attention to the rhetoric than the facts. Here we are now…2012, and President Obama is hoping I will do the same again. Sorry……ain’t going to happen. I have spent the past 4 years paying close attention to what the President has ACTUALLY done. His speeches won’t sway me this time and his rhetoric falls on deaf ears. If anything, President Obama has taught me how important it is to PAY ATTENTION.

We are a Nation, dare I say a World, that is teetering on the precipice of an abyss and we seem quite oblivious to what is going on around us. As long as our must-see TV programs are renewed and McDonalds continues to sell Chicken McNuggets all is well. Things that matter, things like global climate change, industrial farming, concentrated agricultural facilities, nuclear proliferation, antibiotic resistant bacteria, and class warfare are rarely talked about. Instead, way too many Americans are fixated on the Kardashians, Lindsey Lohan, and whether or not Snooki’s boobs are real.

Politicians and corporations bank on the fact most people don’t pay attention. Kraft really doesn’t want you to know that a quart of Miracle Whip only has 30 ounces. Since people often notice price increases, what better way to snooker the public than keep the price the same while reducing the product size.

I say people pay attention to prices but I wonder if they really do. The other day I saw that Amazon was selling Bar Keepers Friend Cleansing Powder for 5.00. It had dozens of reviews. Surely, Amazon has the lowest price, people think. Nope. Same product is about 2.29 at the local grocery. Big companies like Amazon and Walmart do their best to convince people that they are the one-stop shop, lowest price store. Sometimes they are, but unless a person pays attention they will end up paying more than they need to. (and paying more is fine as long as we KNOW we are paying more. For example, I will pay more to buy locally.)

How about you? Are you a pay attention person or do people like me irritate the hell out of you? (my wife and children are banned from commenting on this post. ) Just kidding….

No related posts.

Today’s brilliant bit of prose?

Watch Out for Good Things…God is On the Job.

My wife texted this to me and she added:

How’s that working out?

Any cursory review of current events in the world reveals that there is NO God on the job. Either that, or God is, like Elijah said (in reference to Baal):

And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. (1 Kings 18)

Perhaps God is busy talking on Facebook or Twitter. Maybe he is using the toilet and can’t be bothered. Maybe he is taking a nap.

At best, God is AWOL. He has had all eternity to learn his job, yet he fails to perform even the basic duties of feeding, clothing, and protecting his children. If he was a flesh and blood father he would be arrested for neglect and sued for back child support.

There is no evidence, in the natural world, that God exists.

Yes, good things happen.

Yes, bad things happen.

Who should we give the glory or the blame for these things?

What do your eyes tell you? (yes, open them up and see what is in front of you)

Best I can tell, the only God sighting over the past year was in Denver, Colorado. God took a marginal NFL quarterback named Tim Tebow and helped him play far above his ability. It was rumored that God showed up at a few other sporting events over the past year. At least……….that’s what Christian athletes keep telling us.

Perhaps, this is the crux of the problem. God is a sports addict. He spends all his time helping athletes score touchdowns, cross the finish line first, and hit home runs. So much so that he doesn’t have any time for such trivial matters like people dying, people starving, and earth being ravaged by war and environmental degradation.

So, I will keep watching out for God but so far……..

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. A Few thoughts on Children and Church
2. We Love People and We Are the Friendliest Church Around
3. Does the Church Matter?

The Do Right BJU group’s purpose is:

This is a silent, peaceful demonstration of support for victims and a call for awareness about abuse and how to respond correctly to these situations. We believe that support for victims is especially important for those who know the love of Christ.

We need to go above and beyond the minimum effort as required by the government and we need to uplift and encourage those victims. This is a healing process and victims must know that we will be there with them through the entire struggle.

Although one of our main goals is to see the BJU faculty, staff, and administration support victims and handle cases of abuse correctly, we feel that there has been a misunderstanding about the name of our group.
Our main goal has always been to petition fellow students at Bob Jones University to do right in supporting abuse victims through spreading awareness and by responding appropriately to abuse.

We believe that the students of BJU can be the voice for victims who have been misunderstood and mistreated. While we continue to insist that BJU show support towards victims, we the students must be the change that we seek.

This is a call for students to stand up for victims and to be the voice of the abused.

This is not an attack on BJU, this is a defense and a support of the victims; we believe that BJU has a huge amount of potential to reach out and help victims; but things must change.

What follows is a YouTube video of a man who was kicked out of Bob Jones University for, among other things, watching GLEE. Over the course of 11 minutes you will see the connection between this man’s expulsion and the Do Right BJU group. (and yes, I know the interview leaves a bit to be desired, quality wise.)

Video Clip

For those of us raised in Baptist fundamentalism, this video is filled with all the negative things we remember about our past. Authority. Control. Rules. A Christian commenter on YouTube pretty well sums up how indoctrinated someone can become:

The very idea a person can openly defy authority and actually think they are right boggles the mind. Obey the rulers who have authority over u. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities r opposing what God has done, and they will b punished. If u do something wrong, u ought to be afraid, because these rulers have the right to punish u. They are God’s servants who punish criminals to show how angry God is. Rom 13

It is all about submission to authority. And they wonder why some consider them a cult.

Elizabeth Esther sums up nicely the kind of thinking taught at fundamentalist institutions like Bob Jones University:

Yes, I survived my childhood cult. Yes, I’ve gone on to live a fairly successful life. But I can tell you right now that it has felt like CLAWING my way out of a pit. I was messaging with a family member recently who told me the same thing: sometimes we are just absolutely blindsided by pain from our shared pasts. It never, ever, ever goes away. You just learn different coping mechanisms.

When you are raised in a fundamentalist environment, it’s like your body and soul are branded with hot iron. What BJU has created is a system of learned helplessness. Did you notice that almost every single action requires prior approval?And even after approval, you are required to check in and check out. On top of that, other people are checking on you. Reporting on you.

I remember that well. That was precisely how my fundamentalist church operated. What happens when you live like this is that you never develop your own decision-making skills.

You’re constantly seeking prior approval for everything. After awhile, you can’t LIVE without permission. You begin to panic when faced with a decision–how will you ever make this decision without approval/permission from the “God-given authorities” in your life?!

One of the things I had to work on in therapy was not apologizing for everything and also not feeling compelled to explain everything I did. I had been raised to believe every decision Reverberated Through Eternity! and so I was always ready with “Biblical reasons” for ANY decision I made. It was like I couldn’t do something without a Bible verse to back it up.

And even then, I agonized over whether I had made a decision “outside of God’s will.” I doubted myself and second-guessed myself all the time. Basically, I didn’t know how to be an adult outside of the religious rule system. Like BJU, the rules in my church were so focused on the minutia of my external behavior that I believed that’s what God cared about, too.

It was like: as long as I kept my hair naturally colored, neat and feminine I could leave all the big decisions to God! I didn’t have to make decisions about whom I’d marry or whether I’d get a job after college. I just needed to keep my hemlines low and my necklines high.

When the pain hits, I focus on what is very good in my life right now. I have five wonderful, healthy children. I have a steady, faithfully loving husband. I focus, focus, focus on those things until the darkness ebbs and my mind stops howling.

But does the fact that I’ve gone on to live a good life after fundamentalism mean I’d want my kids to grow up that way? Over.my.dead.body.

And all the people said, AMEN!

No related posts.

In response to one or several of the letters I have written to the editor of the Defiance Crescent News, a local Christian wrote:

Christians need to ‘wake up’

Christians need to wake up! It is time we get offended by what offends Christ.

We wonder why our country is declining, look around. We actually support businesses and networks that promote and endorse what is clearly an abomination to the Lord. It is time we stand up and against that which offends our Savior. Stop watching shows that promote homosexuality, stop shopping at places that fund abortion. The atheists and socialists are pushing their agendas. It’s time we do the same.

In response to Mr. Gerencser’s last letter of ignorance, the A-Team’s Mr. T said it best: ” I pity the fool”.

Wake up Christians, the earth is moaning.

This kind of delusional thinking is quite common here in NW Ohio. Many local residents think the fags, God-haters, and commies are on the verge of taking over the United States. Fueled by right-wing and Christian TV and radio, along with their pastor’s newspaper-Bible preaching, they lash out at anything and everything that does not fit their bigoted, narrow Christian paradigm.

The writer of this letter evidently has a “personal” relationship with Jesus, so personal that Jesus must talk to her face to face. Why? Jesus never mentioned atheism, homosexuality, or socialism, yet she says he did. Where in the Bible do we find Jesus being offended by atheism, homosexuality, or socialism? Most of Jesus’ offense was directed towards the religious, towards his own sect.

The writer shows she is quite ignorant of atheism and socialism. There’s this idea, in what Bill Maher calls the bubble, that atheism and socialism are brothers from the same family.(Satan being their father) She would likely be shocked to know that the atheist community is quite diverse politically. Personally, I am an atheist and a socialist but I know many atheists who are quite conservative politically. I have even met a few pro-life atheists. In groups as wide and diverse as the atheist community, stereotypes are unwise. When used, it makes the user look like what Mr. T said.

The letter writer thinks I am ignorant and a fool. I will leave the letter writer with a few wise words from the Jesus she says she follows:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22

Take that Mr. T. Wait, Mr. T says he is a Christian too. Don’t any of these Christians take the Bible seriously?

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Scientists, Atheists, Theological Training, and Agendas
2. Freethinkers: A source guide to atheists, humanists and nontheists
3. Magazines For Skeptics, Humanists, Agnostics and Atheists

I have talked to many believers face to face and online for about six years. Not one of them believes me when I say there isn’t anything important they can tell me that I haven’t considered before. Almost to a person they speak and write as if they can share something new that would cause me to change my mind. It’s pathetic to me, and frustrating. I have to start all over with each new believer to convince them of this. Even now some believer just may comment below with what is perceived as something new, or a new approach to reaching me. Many have tried arguing with me. Others have ridiculed me–remember, it’s supposed to have an effect when we do it to believers!? Some have tried being kind to me. A few have asked me to come “experience God” at their worship service.

I agree completely with John’s sentiment.

I was part of the Christian church for fifty years. I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty five years. I spent most of my life DAILY reading and studying the Bible. I have spent countless hours reading theology books. While the Bible may be a “timeless” book, as some Christians say, it is not an inexhaustible book. I am quite confident that I have exhausted its contents and that it has nothing more to say to me.

I am quite sure many Christians will find my words quite arrogant. They are convinced that the Bible is a magic book that keeps on giving. No matter how many times you read it, it tells you something new and original, the Christian says.

No, it doesn’t and I think a lot of Christians who SAY this really don’t believe it. How else do we explain the fact the most Christians rarely, if ever read the Bible, and IF they read it, they read Psalms, Proverbs, and portions of the New Testament, leaving vast portions of the Bible untouched?

The Bible may still be a bestseller but it is a bestseller that is collecting dust or found residing in the back window of the car, only to removed from its resting place for an hour or two on Sunday.

Yet, these same Christians think they have something they can tell me that will cause me to repent and return, or come for the first time, to Jesus. Since most Christians never read the Bible from cover to cover how is it they think they have anything to say to me? Their theology is as deep as the 3 minutes they spend in Our Daily Bread. Their reading habit consists of reading books written by pabulum giving Evangelical authors of the day. These people think Joel Osteen and TD Jakes are scholars.

No bragging here, just facts. I know the Bible inside and out. Over the past four  years, countless Christians have tried to win me back to Jesus. Some have tried to use all the apologetical magic tricks in the book to get me to see the error of my way. No matter the ploy, I have heard nothing new. Nothing that would cause me to change my mind or reconsider the false claims of Christianity.

If that is arrogance, so be it. I prefer to think that I am a man who has weighed God/Jesus/Christianity/Bible in the balance and found them wanting.

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. The Bible Has Survived for 2000 Years Without Being Changed

Earlier this week I wrote a post titled The Danger of Being In a Box and Why It All Makes Sense When You Are in a Box.  A commenter of Reddit asked if I would elaborate on:

But is wasn’t.  My mind was filled with thoughts of all the wonders I found outside the box. Things that those in my box said were bad for me. Things that they were sure would ruin me. They told me that the box was all I needed.

But out I wandered once again and just like before I fell down the slope of the slippery hill. This happened to me many times before I finally gave up stayed at the bottom of the hill. At this moment the box I had lived in for almost 50 years no longer fit. For the first time the things I had found in the box seemed odd, peculiar, and contradictory.

Every time I left the box I found new and wondrous things. Things I had never heard about before. Things I had never experienced. The box I was in for 5 decades was a box where the dimensions of the box were clearly defined. There was no guessing about the length, width, or depth of the box.  Over time the box had to be replaced. Those outside the box constantly battered the box with bats, bricks, and rocks. Sometimes these attacks would cause gaping holes in the box and it became necessary to replace the box.

The new box was not like the old box at all. The dimensions were different and it held fewer people. Everyone in the box pretended that the box was just like the old box. An old-fashioned box, we were told We knew the box was not like the old one, but giving the appearance that the new box was the same as the old box was more important that coming to grips with the reality that the box was different. The box keeper was adamant. He said our box was just like the first box that the savior of the box built 2000 years ago.

On one of my trips outside of the box I found out that the box keeper wasn’t telling the truth. He was trying to preserve something that never existed. Perhaps he really didn’t know since he had never been outside the box.  I found out the box manual had errors and contradictions in it. People outside the box questioned whether the box manual was a divine manual. For a time fear plagued me every time I went outside the box. I realized if the box manual wasn’t true then everything I believed about the box was wrong. I thought, “I am smart guy. How could I have been deceived for almost 50 years?”  “Surely ALL these people in the box can’t be wrong?”

As I strayed further and further away from the box I found that there were all kinds of other boxes. Every religion had their own box, as did the various political, social, and economic ideologies. I always knew there were other boxes but I considered all other boxes but the one I was in to be false boxes.

Those of us in the box always mocked those in the atheist box. None of us actually knew an atheist, nor had we ever read a book written by an atheist but Dr. Ihavethetruth told us he  knew all there was to know about the atheist box and he was certain the atheist box was a false box. He told us many horrible things about the atheist box. I was glad I was not one of THOSE kind of box dwellers.

Imagine my surprise to find out that the atheist box was nothing like Dr. Ihavethetruth said it was. In fact, I found out there was quite a bit of diversity in the atheist box. They argued back and forth with each other, but at the end of the day they all went to the bar and were still friends. I had never seen such interaction before. In my box when arguments broke out they usually ended when each party called the other party a not-a-true box dweller. Some of them even went so far as to leave the box and, just a few feet away build another box.  They said they were a new and DIFFERENT box but everyone knew that they only thing  different was the location of the box.

I found that I liked the atheist box. Those in the atheist box encouraged me to be skeptical of the every box. I had never heard this before. In the box I was from we were told to never question the box and certainly to never question or doubt the box manual. The box keeper warned us that doubt led many a box dweller outside of the box never to return.

This new found freedom to question and to be skeptical was quite liberating. It also caused a good bit of conflict for me. People from the box I had left were questioning whether or not I was ever a “real” box dweller. They said, Yes he was in the box but he never really believed the box manual. They called me a deceiver. Some even thought I was deluded. The box keeper used me as an illustration of what happens when a person leaves the box.

For a time my new found freedom, while liberating, caused me a great amount of mental conflict.  There seemed to be a constant tug and pull. I felt like I was going to be pulled apart. I heard about a man who specialized in helping people who left boxes like the one I was in. So I went to see him and I knew immediately that he could help with the tug and pull that was trying to pull me apart.

Over time I began to see how the box, the box keeper, and the box manual had taken over my life to such a degree that I lost who I was. Every time I saw the specialist I reclaimed some of the self that I had lost. As this happened I began to deal with the questions I had about the box and the box manual.

I am not sure when the moment was, but I do remember coming to a place where I felt completely free. I felt “born again”. I thought I am a “born again” atheist. I no longer felt any pull to return to the box. Of course those in the box said “See what happens when you stay outside the box for a long time?”

Three years have gone by since I found myself at the bottom of the slippery hill. It is hard to believe…three years. People in the atheist box, the box I now call home, told me that things would be better with time. They encouraged me to read and study. They told me “go where the data leads you.”

Leaving the box I was in was the best thing that has ever happened in my life. I want to shout FREE, FREE AT LAST. I love having  the freedom to investigate not only my religious beliefs but also my political, social, and economic beliefs. (or for that matter any issue I am confronted with)

Over time I learned that the atheist box, or for that matter any box I find myself in, is not perfect. In every box there are arrogant, nasty, vindictive box dwellers. No box is perfect but some boxes are definitely better than others. That’s the greatest wonder of all………I now have the  ability to freely choose the box (es) I want to be in.

I guess the best thing to say here is this……

I no longer feel boxed in.

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. The Danger of Being In a Box and Why It All Makes Sense When You Are in a Box
2. I Was an Atheist Like You Before I Found Jesus
3. Bruce, the Pornographer and WHY I Really Left the Christian Faith

Picture

(repost)

Based on a sampling of almost 6,000 comments I am able to come to some conclusions about the methods Christians use to turn me, and many other people, off to Christianity. Their words speak volumes about their God, Jesus, and the Bible.  In their attempts to witness to me, evangelize me, set me straight, or deliver me from my delusions, they continue to show me that leaving Christianity and the ministry was the next best thing I have ever done. (The best thing was marrying my best friend and wife of 33 years)

So, here’s the list of Most Effective Methods used by Christians to Turn Me off to Christianity. Whatever their motive, Christians need to know that the things listed here DO NOT help them achieve their intended goal. (and I suspect most atheists and nonbelievers would agree with me on this, not that Christians care what we think)

Quoting Bible Verses

One of the favorite things that Christians like to do is quote Bible verses. They think the verses of Bible have some magical power and that if they put them in a comment that I will, all of a sudden, be convicted of the error of my way and coming running back to Jesus.

They seemingly forget that I know the Bible inside and out. Even today, six years removed from when I preached my last sermon, I can still quote from memory hundreds of Bible verses. The Bible is deeply imbedded into my mind. (as are the lyrics of hundreds and hundreds of Christian songs)

I know the Bible inside and out. Arrogant sounding, I know, but it is just how it is. I have yet to read a verse in a comment that I have not seen before. I have not read the Bible in over three years, yet my mind is still filled with the words of the Bible and Christian doctrine. I even find myself humming Christian songs or singing a few bars of my favorite hymns or praise and worship songs.

My problem is not a lack of Bible knowledge or understanding. I know all I need to know about the Bible and its teaching.

Fortunately, some commenters know this. I have observed that the less fluent someone is in the intricacies of Christianity the more likely they are to quote Bible verses. (proof texting) Mature, well educated Christians understand the problems I have with Christianity. While they still choose to believe, they understand why I don’t.  They may WISH I would return to Christianity but they understand that quoting Bible verses will not facilitate that return.

Preaching

Some Christians take to preaching in the comments. They view the readers of this blog and yours truly as a captive audience so they quote a few verses and preach away. They are not interested in interaction or understanding. They are only interested in getting a good word in for Jesus.

Sometimes, they aren’t really preaching to the me as much as they are preaching to themselves. Perhaps my writing troubles them. They wonder, “If a well-educated, seasoned pastor like Bruce can fall from the faith, so can anyone one!”  Very true, however, rather than carefully considering what I write and its implications, they circle the wagons and defend the home turf.  This is a normal response. We all do it when our sincerely-held beliefs and convictions are challenged.

Preaching may make the preacher feel good and it may reinforce their need to be right but it has a negative effect on people like me. Atheists and nonbelievers likely have heard enough preaching to last them a lifetime. I have preached thousands of sermons and heard thousands more. Lest you doubt the math……consider 50 years x 3 times a week + Sunday school, revivals, special meetings, pastor’s conferences, street meetings, nursing home services, and chapel services. I have preached and heard more sermons than the average Methodist or Episcopalian hears in 5 lifetimes.

Preaching doesn’t work but it seems that a lot of Christians like to hear themselves talk or read their own sermons. So preach away, dear Christian but understand, that to me and many atheists, your words are like sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (1 Corinthians 11) They are just noise.

Ignoring Questions

Bible verse regurgitators and sermon preachers seem to have no time for questions. They are focused on whatever their objective is and can not be bothered with questions.  Recently, a commenter has been droning endlessly about law and grace. He has been asked several questions, yet he never answers them. It seems he expects everyone to just accept his theological pronouncements, even if they show a lack of nuance and understanding about the text of the Bible. He is above the questions of lowly atheists and nonbelievers. (even if his comments show a definite lack of understanding Christian doctrine)

Granted, I do not ask questions because I don’t know. I ask questions in hopes of getting the Christian commenter to think more deeply about their beliefs. Of course many Christian commenters are certain that what they belief is THE TRUTH, the ONLY TRUTH, so help them the triune God of the Christian Bible. They are absolutely certain that their interpretation of the Bible is absolutely correct. They expect people to bow in submission to their interpretation. Questions? When in the presence of certainty questions are not needed. Just believe!

Ignoring Educational and Professional Background

One of my favorite commenters is the one that only reads one blog post. Often, they come to the Fallen From Grace blog via a Google search. One recent commenter came to this blog via a Google search of “Todd Burpo Did Jesus have Wings?” I am not kidding. This same person then proceeds to argue Christian doctrine with me and tell me how ignorant I am of the Bible. Any person having to Google, Did Jesus Have Wings ought never to open their mouth about the teachings of Christianity.

Many of the prominent atheists on the internet were former Christian pastors or educators. Many of us spent decades studying the Bible. We spent countless hours reading books and dissecting the Greek and Hebrew text. We took seriously our calling and devoted our lives to knowing the Bible inside and out.  Like a doctor, lawyer or any other professional we knew our craft well.

Why is it then that little respect is paid to us? Why is it every Christian armed with a Strong’s Concordance and a Bible software program thinks they are an expert on what the Bible teaches?  Evidently, when we deconverted all our knowledge disappeared.

One recent commenter quoted Andrew Murray and then proceeded to tell me he was a non-Christian writer. Sigh…. She was trying to give secular proof of the existence of Jesus and her proof was 19th century Christian author Andrew Murray. Never mind that I have read most of what Andrew Murray wrote……I am ignorant and closed minded because I didn’t accept her no-proof proof.

Regardless of what disagreement I may have with a person, I respect those who work hard at knowing their craft well. I know that becoming proficient at anything requires hard work. Excelling requires total commitment to the craft.

While I can’t stop Christian commenters from disparaging and ignoring my 50 years in the Christian church, my education, and 25 years in the ministry, they should know that this approach causes me to shut my ears. If you don’t respect me why should I listen to one word you say or write?

Calling Names

This is a no-brainer. Calling names is a definite show-stopper. Yes, I know I have called people names a time or two. Yes, I know there are some well-known atheists who are quite proficient at name calling. Surely your mother taught you that just because someone else does something does mean it is a good idea for you to do the same.

Being told I am ignorant, a fool, an idiot, etc. causes me to stop listening to anything the epithet hurler has to say. Once again, it is about respect.

When I call names it is because I am angry, offended, pissed off, want to retaliate, or lack a good response. When I call names I am  reducing myself to level of my word-challenged critics. I must constantly guard against telling some commenters that they are brain-dead, illiterate, married to their sister dumb fucks. 

I see name calling as a coarse, degrading way of conversation. It rarely accomplishes anything. Sadly, some Christian commenters don’t see it this way. I wonder what Jesus would think of their name calling?

Some commenters think of themselves as prophets, called of God to speak truth to degenerate, atheist,Christ-haters like me. They see themselves as modern day speakers of truth, just like the prophets and apostles, and men of God of old. (sorry women really should keep silent in the comments)   They think they are above the unwashed uncircumcised Philistines that frequent this blog so they can say whatever they want.

Invitations for Breakfast, lunch, or dinner

I like eating out. I like fellowshipping with other people. That said, eating out is not a time to debate over Christianity or atheism. Eating out is a time for good food, lame jokes, reflections on the past,and having fun. Eating out is meant to be free from dick measuring. (sizing each other up) As a home-bound disabled person, I look forward to going out to eat. This Saturday Polly and I are going to Toledo to shop and we plan to eat at Famous Dave’s while we are there. It is only Wednesday and I am already exited about our trip to the big city. I love spending time with Polly, eating good food, and spending money.

So, I ask you WHY would I want to share a meal with a Christian, a pastor, a “concerned” follower of Jesus? If they can read, my blog tells them everything they need to know about me. What will eating a meal together accomplish?

Listen, I understand their motivation. They refuse to accept that I left Christianity for intellectual reasons. They are certain there is some underlying emotional issue. Perhaps I am burned out or I have been hurt. They think if they just befriend me they can win me back to Jesus. They think if they are nice to me they can show me the “good” Jesus and I will then come running back to the fold.

While I will readily admit that there is an emotional component to my defection from the faith, the bottom line reason is an intellectual one. I don’t believe the Bible is truth. That’s it. End of story. No matter how friendly a Christian might be it is not going to change my beliefs about God, Jesus, and the Bible.

Dear Christian, you want to be my friend? Do you want to wine and dine me at McDonalds?   Can you do this without ever bringing up Christianity or my atheism? (unless we mutually agree to talk about it) Can you do this without psychoanalyzing my past? Can you focus on the here-and-now rather than the sweet-by-and-by? Can you respect me as I am, where am? Can you respect why I am an atheist?

Before you answer YES……..consider that many have walked the path to my door before you. They all said YES, but over time the simply could not repress their native need to speak a good word for Jesus or to try and nudge, pull, or drive me back to Christianity. Maybe, you are different. I doubt it……but maybe. Knowing now what I have experienced in the past, you’ll forgive me if I don’t trust any Christian, especially a pastor, who says, “I want to be your friend.”  I am like the woman who has been married five times…When a Christian says “let’s be friends” I am immediately wary.

What else could be added to this post? What do Christians do that immediately turns you off or causes you to stop listening?

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Millions of People are Christians so Christianity MUST be True.
2. What Do Christians Really Believe About God, Jesus, and the Bible
3. If Christianity Doesn’t Matter Why Do You Bother With It?

(repost)

God said to me…

God spoke to me….

The Lord is leading….

Statements like these are common, every day statements made by millions of Christians. They sincerely believe God (the Lord, Jesus) talks to them.

Sometimes the Lord speaks to Christians audibly, though most often the Lord speaks to their heart.

When Christians say that the Lord is speaking to their hearts what do they mean? What is the heart? Where is the heart found?

Most Christians believe that a human being is made up of a body/soul/spirit. Some Christians believe that a human being is made up of a body and sprit. When they speak of the heart they are talking about the innermost part of a human being, the place were the will is found. (the heart being the essence of who and what you are)

The heart is given a mystical quality, with many Christians unsure of exactly what the heart is. I have heard countless preachers warn people about making a head rather than heart profession. Many people will miss heaven because they made a head profession rather than a heart profession, or so they say.

The Bible is fairly clear about the heart. As a man thinketh in his heart so is he, the Bible says. Countless verses show very clearly that when the Bible talks about the heart it is talking about the mind. (and I am aware that not every verse that uses the word heart can be interpreted this way)

When a person decides to become a Christian they make an intellectual decision to believe the Christian gospel.  They “believe in their heart” that the gospel message us true.

Of course Christians, like all of us, are emotional beings. Every day our emotions influence the decisions we make. There is no such thing as making an emotion-free decision. Most people understand this but the Christian is often told that emotions can deceive a person and they should never be relied upon.

There is some truth to the notion  that emotions can, and do, cause us to do things that are against our best interest or harmful to others. Prisons are filled with people who, in a moment of extreme emotion, hurt or killed someone else. That said, without emotions rarely would human beings rise to the occasion and do anything of meaningful value. Emotions are the fuel by which great things are accomplished.

The next time a Christian says to you that God is speaking to them, leading them, etc ask them to explain what they mean. How do they know it God leading/directing/speaking? 

Most often a Christian will say I just KNOW. Many Christians will couch their God interaction in Bible verses and theological justifications. They are told that emotions can lead them astray and that they must ever “trust” their emotions so they attempt to give “biblical” justification for God speaking to them, leading them, etc.

Regardless of Christians suggesting otherwise, God leading, God speaking is an emotional experience.There is no empirical proof to the contrary. None. When a person says God told me to _______________, what proof do they have that it was God speaking to them?

We all have stories of emotional experiences we could tell. I had many, many emotional experiences when I was a Christian. I remember “God” coming upon me and leading me to preach a particular sermon or “God” leading me to have the church do this or that. I have sat in countless services and “felt” the presence of God.  I just KNEW God was in our midst. I have been in services where it was evident that the room was thick with God’s presence. I have preached sermons that God used in mighty ways, with countless people professing faith in Christ or getting right with God.

Were these emotional experiences  real? Sure they were. Not the God “speaking” aspect of it, but the emotional experiences themselves were real.  That’s the nature of emotional experiences. I don’t criticize the emotional experiences of others as long as they don’t use those experiences to “prove” there is a God. (or prove anything else for that matter)

Since emotional experiences cannot be proved they have no value in the God debate. As an atheist I have emotional experiences quite often. Watch a movie .Listen to a song. Go to a place that brings back fond memories. Read a book. Sit in the yard and watch the wildlife. Observe my grandkids playing. The list is endless. All of these things can, and do,elicit an emotional response. from me. I desire and even want to make an emotional connection with the things that make up my wife but I do not make a huge leap in logic and think that when I have an emotional experience that it is God speaking to me. Emotional experiences remind me I am alive, however they do not speak to whether or not God exists.

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. You KNOW You Believe in God
2. Is God to Blame for Weather that Kills People?
3. Prayer, a Few Thoughts on My Life of Praying to the Christian God

(repost)

Not THAT A word.

This one…

Atheist.

Richard Dawkins writes:

Let us consider the appropriateness or otherwise of someone (call him ‘Philo’) describing himself as a theist, atheist or agnostic. I would suggest that if Philo estimates the various plausibilities to be such that on the evidence before him the probability of theism comes out near to one he should describe himself as a theist and if it comes out near zero he should call himself an atheist, and if it comes out somewhere in the middle he should call himself an agnostic. There are no strict rules about this classification because the borderlines are vague. If need be, like a middle-aged man who is not sure whether to call himself bald or not bald, he should explain himself more fully

For a long time I labeled myself as an agnostic.  Agnostic was a safe word for me. A good place to hide and heal.

People, particularly Christian people, were willing to give me some space, the benefit of the doubt , when I said I was an agnostic. Perhaps they thought agnosticism was just a temporary state. Perhaps they thought I was riding the fence and would, in time, come back to them.

It is time for me to come out of hiding and own up to the truth that I am an atheist.

Practically, I live my day to day life as an atheist. (but then so do many Christians) I don’t pray to a deity. I don’t study a religious text. I don’t check in with God before I do something. I live my life in such a way that God never enters the picture.

Richard Dawkins aptly describes my view:

I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.

I have learned that most people misunderstand atheism.  They think atheism is akin to Satan worship. Oh my God, you don’t believe in God!     For some reason people believe the worst about atheists.  They have no reason to so so.  Atheists are like many groups of people, diverse and resistant to stereotype.

For me, the God question is about probabilities. Can I state with certainty there is no God? (using the word God in a generic sense) Of course not. But, I can not make an absolute statement about anything. I don’t possess complete, absolute knowledge of anything.  Even if there was proof of the existence of a god how would I determine which god is the real God? Humans believe in a plethora of gods. Which god is the true God?

Atheists are skeptics. Claims of certainty, like the claims of Christianity, are viewed with suspicion. The Atheist says “prove it.” Appeals to faith or the supernatural have no effect on atheists.

When I told people I was an agnostic I often had to explain what that meant. By labeling myself as an atheist I no longer have to explain myself. When I say I am an atheist people know I don’t believe in God. Of course, calling myself an atheist brings a whole new set of cultural and social problems that I have to deal with.

I am the same Bruce, just with a different label.

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Word Games
2. Bruce, Do You Believe in God?
3. God’s Word, Used as A Tool to Control and Destroy

I love the variety of colors that are on display in our yard. Every year we add more perennial plants, bushes, and trees. We also plant wildflowers every Spring. Over the past 5 years the birds and wind have spread seeds everywhere and we have volunteers growing all over the yard. Bachelor Buttons and Holly Hocks are found in more places we DIDN’T plant them than where we did.

I will label these pictures when Polly comes home tonight. These days, I have a hard time remembering the names of everything we have planted.

Sweet William

Shasta Daisy

Iris

Japanese Iris

Wildflower of some sort

Chives

Blackberry Bush. Year Three. We should have a lot of berries this year.

Wildflower of some sort.

No related posts.

If you have a strong body and good health you are indeed blessed.

I remember a day when I had good health and a strong body.

I remember being able to do whatever I wanted to do.

I remember hours spent playing basketball or softball.

I remember playing tackle football after church.

I remember walking for hours in the woods hunting deer, rabbits, or squirrels.

I remember hiking in the Huachuca Mountains.

I remember hiking to the top of Miller Peak.

I remember working long hours, with little sleep, and getting up and doing it all over again. And doing this for days and weeks on end.

I remember what it is to be a man’s man.

But, that is all I have these days……..just memories of a life that once was, a life I will never, ever have again.

Usually, at this point, someone is thinking, “I wonder if he has tried______________?”

Whatever you were going to put in the blank space, I have tried it. Diets. Foods. Drugs. Supplements. Tests.

Been there, done that.

I know you care and that’s why you send me the “new” information you have found. I know you want me to be in good health again.

But, it is not to be.

There is no fixing me.

God didn’t fix me, prayer didn’t fix me, and all the king’s horses and all the king’s men can’t put Bruce’s body back together again.

Life becomes one, slow, painful slide towards death.

Sometimes, I get periods of time where life flattens out. No new problems to deal with, no new adversity to fight.

These times become what I call The New Normal.

18 months ago, my right elbow started swelling and hurting. I went to the orthopedic doctor and he gave me a cortisone shot. The elbow problem went away.

About 9 months ago, my left elbow started swelling and hurting. I went to the orthopedic doctor just like before but this time the cortisone shot only lasted for a while and then the elbow began swelling and hurting again.

There isn’t anything structurally wrong with my left elbow. It just swells and hurts. It has been this way for months now.

My left elbow problem becomes a part of The New Normal.

Just one more thing to add to a long list of things I must deal with every day.

Think this is no big deal?

Add to the elbow problem, swollen and painful hands. Add to this chronic, never-far-from-me, lower back pain.

Then………think about wiping your ass.

A simple bodily function, yet it requires me to grit me teeth to stand the pain as  I try to do what billions of people do every day.

The New Normal.

Family and friends rarely inquire these days about how I am doing. I understand. They see me handling The New Normal so they assume I am doing just fine. They have their own lives to live, their own problems.

Those of us who life which chronic illness and disability often feel like we are just another piece of furniture. While everyone else is busy living life to its fullest, we just try to get by til tomorrow. They get so used to use being right where we are that they forget about us. Often, we become invisible to those we love the most.

I have no answers to this problem. I don’t fault my family and friends. I have very little to offer them these days. I don’t contribute like they do. I am just taking up space.  In the busy-ness of life family and friends assume that I will be here tomorrow. Just like every other day. I am right where I always am. A life that pretty much covers the distance from the bedroom, to the bathroom, to the Man Cave, and to the living room.

If I feel up to it  my world expands to the yard or a short drive to a nearby town to shop or eat. These trips become harder and harder to do. When you can’t drive you have to rely on others to take you here and there and let’s face it………they have a life too. So…….for the most part, I suffer in quietness and loneliness. Maybe I should have been a hermit.

This is my New Normal.

I have no power to change any of this. All I can do is adjust to my New Normal.

One of the hardest things for someone with a chronic illness to do is to embrace their reality. We remember a past when things were different. We remember a different life. In many ways, chronic, debilitating illness has made us into a different person. Whoever we were before is long gone. We must accept who we are NOW.

Often, the great struggle is not with pain or lack of mobility. The biggest battleground is the mind. With our mind we can bring up memories of the past. With our mind we can survey the present. With our mind we can gaze into the future. Often, despair sets in.

It should come as no surprise that many people who have chronic, debilitating illness see a counselor on a regular basis. The mental toll such illness brings is overwhelming. Struggles over meaning and purpose become matters of life and death. The counselor often becomes the firewall between the sick person and the gun or pills. I know that is how it is for me.

For you who are healthy and full of vim and vigor this post probably sounds defeatist or even whiny. “I should be glad I am alive or that I have a spouse and children who love me,” some might say.

I wouldn’t argue these points but I do wonder how they might respond to life if they had to walk in my shoes for awhile?

Imagine losing your strength and vitality. Imagine losing the capacity to work and do things that give your life meaning and purpose. Imagine there never being a day or moment that you are not in pain. Imagine your life being reduced to sitting in a recliner and watching TV hours on end. Imagine not being able to drive and having to be driven everywhere you go. Imagine a life of walking with a cane or being wheeled around in a wheelchair. Imagine this is your life day in and day out. Imagine going to sleep only to wake up and start it all over again.

This is my New Normal.

I write this post not as a complaint or an attempt to elicit sympathy or understanding. I write this post to give voice to my fellow sufferers. I write so they can know that there is someone else who understands. Perhaps, united in our suffering, we will find the necessary strength to make it another day.

Pictures: Bitstrips and Lisa Copen

No related posts.

I subscribe to several magazines that are sympathetic to a non-theist/humanist worldview. I heartily recommend these magazines to you.

The Humanist applies Humanism—a naturalistic and democratic outlook informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by compassion—to broad areas of social and personal concern. In pursuit of alternative ideas, the Humanist airs opinions that may not necessarily reflect those of the editors or the publisher, the American Humanist Association.

The American Humanist Association, is a membership organization established in 1941 as successor to the Humanist Press Association, which was established in 1935, which was itself successor to the Humanist Fellowship organized at the University of Chicago in 1927. The AHA is a founding member of the International Humanist and Ethical Union.

With a distinguished cadre of feature writers covering everything from science and religion to politics and popular culture, and with a wide-ranging list of stellar contributors, the Humanist continues to challenge its readers with insightful ethical critique and commentary on the central issues of our time.  Subscribe here   19.95 yr.

New Humanist is the London based magazine of the Rationalist Association, promoting reason, debate and free thought since 1885.

New Humanist magazine is one of the world’s oldest continuously published magazines (starting life as The Literary Review in 1885). During that time New Humanist has distinguished itself as a world leader in supporting and promoting humanism and rational inquiry and opposing religious dogma, irrationalism and bunkum wherever it is found. Subscribe here 37.00 yr.

The mission of the Council for Secular Humanism is to advocate and defend a nonreligious lifestance rooted in science, naturalistic philosophy, and humanist ethics and to serve and support adherents of that lifestance.

The Council is North America’s leading organization for non-religious people. A not-for-profit educational corporation, the Council supports a wide range of activities to meet the needs of people who find meaning and value in life without looking to a religion. Its activities range from magazine publishing and campaigning on ethical issues to holding conferences and supporting a network of autonomous local groups.

Secular humanists reject supernatural and authoritarian beliefs. They affirm that we must take responsibility for our own lives and the communities and world in which we live. Secular humanism emphasizes reason and scientific inquiry, individual freedom and responsibility, human values and compassion, and the need for tolerance and cooperation. Subscribe here 24.95 yr.

The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry encourages the critical investigation of paranormal and fringe-science claims from a responsible, scientific point of view and disseminates factual information about the results of such inquiries to the scientific community and the public. It also promotes science and scientific inquiry, critical thinking, science education, and the use of reason in examining important issues.

Some of the founding members of CSI include scientists, academics, and science writers such as Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov, Philip Klass, Paul Kurtz, Ray Hyman, James Randi, Martin Gardner, Sidney Hook, and others. A list of CSI fellows is published in every issue of Skeptical Inquirer magazine. Subscribe here  19.95 yr.

Since 1992, the Skeptics Society has published Skeptic, a quarterly journal that examines a wide variety of social, scientific, and pseudoscientific controversies. Our contributors are top experts in their fields, making Skeptic a respected academic voice. The magazine has been called “stimulating and provocative” by Carl Sagan, “clearly superior … gutsy” by Edward O. Wilson, and “the best journal in the field” by Stephen Jay Gould. Subscribe here 30.00 yr.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc., is an educational group working for the separation of state and church. Its purposes, as stated in its bylaws, are to promote the constitutional principle of separation of state and church, and to educate the public on matters relating to nontheism.

Incorporated in 1978 in Wisconsin, the Foundation is a national membership association of freethinkers: atheists, agnostics and skeptics of any pedigree. Subscribe here  20.00 yr.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State was founded in 1947 by a broad coalition of religious, educational and civic leaders. At that time, proposals were pending in the U.S. Congress to extend government aid to private religious schools. Many Americans opposed this idea, insisting that government support for religious education would violate church-state separation. The decision was made to form a national organization to promote this point of view and defend the separation principle.

Americans United believes that all Americans have the constitutional right to practice the religion of their choice (or refrain from taking part in religion) as individual conscience dictates. The government must remain neutral on religious questions. This has been a guiding principle of Americans United since the organization was founded. Subscribe here  25.00 yr.

American Atheists is an organization in the United States dedicated to defending the civil liberties of atheists and advocating for the complete separation of church and state. It provides speakers for colleges, universities, clubs and the news media. It also publishes books and the quarterly American Atheist Magazine, currently edited by Pamela Wessel. The organization was founded by Madalyn Murray O’Hair.
Subscribe here. 20.00 yr. if you are a member of American Atheists.

*all text taken from respective magazine websites

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Freethinkers: A source guide to atheists, humanists and nontheists
2. Skeptics, Science,Creationists, and the Bible
3. Scientists, Atheists, Theological Training, and Agendas

One of the questions I am asked most often is “what about your children?”

I have six children, ranging in age from almost 33 to almost 19.  4 boys, 2 girls.

They grew as preacher’s kids. Their father, for almost their entire lives, was a pastor. They heard most every sermon their Dad ever preached, They  attended more Church services than most people attend in 5 lifetimes.

They were the unpaid staff of the Church. They mowed the grassed, mopped the floors and did pretty much everything that needed done.

They have seen the best and the worst of the Christian Church. They have been amused and abused, and most certainly never excused.

They lived in a glass house.

They did without so the Church could do with.

They watched their Dad and Mom  work themselves to death for sake of the call.

They did  without when it seemed no one else was.

They experienced all the good and bad the Church could offer.

And then one day……..their preacher father stopped preaching.

At first they thought it was just a temporary stoppage.

Surely Dad will find another Church to pastor.

They could not envision their Dad not pastoring a Church.

In their life, Dad was always a pastor.

When  Dad accepted the pastorate of a Southern Baptist Church in Michigan, the three oldest stayed behind.

For the first time the family was separated.

This began a process of learning to be free, learning to make decisions without the Holy Spirit (also known as Dad) telling them what us do.

There came a point where Dad not pastoring and the freedom to make our own decisions crossed paths.

Where do we go from here?

Three of us married and the youngest three still lived with Dad and Mom.

Mom and Dad stopped going to Church.

Mom and Dad stopped talking about Church all the time.

Mom and Dad started living life different than they had in the “good old days.”

No sermons. No Bible readings. No prayers.

No Christian books. No G rated movies. No Christian this or Christian that.

Yet, they were still Mom and Dad.

They still loved us

Dad said a curse word.

Mom said a curse word.

Dad said a lot of curse words.

Mom frowned.

Did you know Mom and Dad watched an R rated movie?

Dad admitted watching porn.

Did you know Dad believes in Evolution?

He even told us some stories about the what really went on behind the scenes in the ministry. Really? That really happened?

Dad no longer consulted the Bible when deciding what to do on a given matter.

Dad talked a lot more about reason and common sense.

Dad said he no longer believed the Bible to be true.

Dad not believing the Bible? That can not be true.

But it is.

He gave some of us Bart Ehrman’s books to read.

Dad sent the LETTER to family and friends.

What happened? Why have most of Dad and Mom’s friends walked away from them?

Those selfish ingrates. After all Mom and Dad did for them.

Dad actually watched the Super Bowl.

Dad struggles with health problems.

He is in pain all the time.

So much for being rewarded for doing God’s work.

Did you know Dad is seeing a counselor?

Wow, that’s a pretty big step for him.

All of a sudden we can be ourselves around Dad and Mom.

No judgment. No finger pointing.

Dad and Mom voted for Obama!

Dad thinks gays should be allowed to marry.

The roof did NOT fall in on Dad. Maybe God is not a Republican after all.

Dad still likes to be the CEO, the Potentate, the boss-man. After all he is Dad.

Free.

Free to be our own person.

Free to live life on our own terms.

Free to worship or not worship.

Dad and Mom love us, no strings attached.

This hasn’t been easy.

It seems everyone and everything is in a state of flux.

Dad made a scene during Thanksgiving over prayer before the meal.

He’s right, but it upset some of us.

It seems with freedom comes conflict.

It is a lot easier to talk to Dad now.

No rules.

No preaching at us.

Instead, he talks TO us.

Dad has apologized over and over for the whippings and belittling.

Dad has apologized for not letting us play sports or do the things all the other kids got to do.

He can stop apologizing now.

He is forgiven.

Dad still hates that one of us rides a motorcycle.

He told one of us today they He and Mom would raise our kids if we got killed.

That’s Dad.

In many ways we are more of a family today than we ever were before.

Some of us are still Christians, though none of us are Fundamentalists.

Some of us are not.

Some of us are “hell if I know what I am.”

This Friday we will have dinner at Dad and Mom’s home.

It is Good Friday.

But it will not be a Good Friday in the religious sense.

It will be a Good Friday because we have one another and that makes every day good.

(this post comes from numerous conversations I have had with my children.  I hope I have represented them accurately.)

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Why Do So Many Christians Abuse Their Children?
2. A Few thoughts on Children and Church
3. Do it for the Children or the Flowers

I was a Christian for most of my life, a pastor for most of my adult life. I was a fervent believer of the faith once delivered to the saints. I believed it, practiced it, and lived it. When I was in the box of Christianity it all made sense to me. Everything I read, everything I heard, and everything I experienced, reinforced the belief that I was in the right box.

God told me, the Bible told me, my friends and family told me, and the opposition of the world told me, that I was in the right box. Every once in awhile I would take one step outside the box and experience a bit of other boxedness. (yeah it is not a word but you know what I mean) After every foray into the world outside the box I would return to the safety of the box.

This is the way I lived my life for 5 decades. Then one day, I decided to take more than one step outside of the box. I haltingly, tentatively took a few steps, close enough to the box that I could run back if I needed to.

Over time I wandered farther and father away from the box. I found all kinds of things that were not to be found in the box I was in. I was confronted with data, beliefs, ideologies, ism’s, and practices that I had never heard of. I was uncertain about what I should make of these new found things.

I talked to fellow box keepers about this. They caution me about wandering outside of the box. Nothing good happens outside of the box , Bruce. Everything we need for life and godliness is right here in the box. We even have a box manual that tells us how to live in the box.

Over time I continued to wander outside of the box. One day I wandered so far outside the box that I realized, for the first time, that the box sat on a  steep. slippery hill. One day while I was far outside the box I turned around to longingly look at the box and I slipped, and before I knew it I was slipping and sliding down the slippery hill.

On this day I fought my way back up the hill and I crawled back to the box. Dirty and bruised, I was safe within the box once again. The box was my salvation.

But is wasn’t.  My mind was filled with thoughts of all the wonders I found outside the box. Things that those in my box said were bad for me. Things that they were sure would ruin me. They told me that the box was all I needed.

But out I wandered once again and just like before I fell down the slope of the slippery hill. This happened to me many times before I finally gave up stayed at the bottom of the hill. At this moment the box I had lived in for almost 50 years no longer fit. For the first time the things I had found in the box seemed odd, peculiar, and contradictory.

When I was in the box it all made sense. It all fit. But now, here I am outside of the box, at the bottom of the slippery hill, and the things I once believed now seem to be the strange language of an alien culture.

I now find myself saying, I can’t believe I actually believed _________________________.  It seems so crazy and incoherent now, yet when I was in the box it all made sense.

I can’t go back to the box I was in. As a secularist, as a person who promotes skeptical, rational thinking, I must always be aware of other boxes around me. Every box says that they have the truth. Every box wants me to take up residence in their box. However, I have learned, perhaps the hard way, that living in the narrow, blind confines of a box keeps me from experiencing the world that  lurks just outside the box.

Experiencing the world out side the box changed me forever.  I know I still have a penchant for box-like thinking but I revel in a life free of the constraints of any one box.

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Groupthink, A Danger For All of Us
2. It All Make Sense Inside the Bubble

2000 years.

2000 years of Jesus.

From the beginning, Christians put their teachings, their beliefs, into writing. The Bibles that modern Christians use all trace their authority back through history to Christian writings dating from the late first century forward. (speaking only of the New Testament in this post) The original writings, the first edition writings, do not exist. (any claim of inspiration for the  “original” writings is nothing more than a wishful, fanciful claim that cannot be proved) Every claim ever made by the Christian church rests on text of the Bible and how the church has interpreted it.  I am well aware that, over its long history, the Christian church has been influenced by Gnosticism, but, for the most part, Christianity is a text based religion that places the text of the Bible above personal experiences and revelations. Even when personal experiences and revelations are given weight they are almost always expected to conform to what is found in the text of the Bible.

Most Christians believe the Bible is inspired by God. They believe the words of the Bible came from God or at least represent,in fallible human form, what God wants humankind to know about God, life,salvation, death, judgment, and the afterlife. Some Christians believe every word is inspired by God and some Christians even go so far as to say that a particular translation, the King James Version, is inspired by God. Christians who hold this extreme view believe that God has preserved his Word through time and that every word of the King James Bible is from the lips of God himself.

Most Christians believe the Bible is truth. While they may not believe ALL the Bible is truth, every Christian, at some point or the other, says THIS is truth. A person who does not believe the Bible is truth is not a Christian in any meaningful sense of the word.

There is a silly form of Christianity floating  about these days that suggests a person can be a Christian and not believe the Bible. In many cases these kind of people are what I call cafeteria Christians. They pick and choose what they want to believe. Most cafeteria Christians believe in Jesus since they DO want their sins forgiven and they DO want to go to heaven when they die. (I am sure Thomas Jefferson would be proud of them) But, when it comes to the hard sayings of the Bible, the teachings that get in the way of the American dream and living the way they want to live, the cafeteria Christian dismisses such sayings and teachings as old, outdated relics of past that have no value or application today. Simply put they want a Jesus divorced from anything else the Bible says. Cafeteria Christians become quite adept at explaining away anything in the Bible they disagree with.

This brings me to the point of this post. Who determines what the Bible says? Who decides what this verse or that verse says? Who is the truth arbiter? It boils down to authority. Who is the final authority?

Some Christians says GOD is the final authority. The Bible is God’s Word…..THUS SAITH THE LORD!! These well meaning Christians think that the Bible is clear in what it says and that any person can know what the Bible says. Why then do they go to church on Sunday and listen to a man tell them what he thinks the Bible says? Why do they read books and commentaries written by people telling them what they think the Bible says? If the Bible is a self-attesting, self-explanatory text why all the middlemen?

Some Christians say the HOLY SPIRIT is the final authority. God gave New Testament Christians (Old Testament believers only got a part-time Holy Spirit) the Holy Spirit to be their teacher and guide. The Holy Spirit teaches them everything necessary for life and godliness. It is not hard to see the gnostic influence in this kind of thinking.

If there is ONE Holy Spirit who teaches and guides every Christian, why is there no consensus on what Christians believe? Why does the Holy Spirit give contradictory instructions or lessons? Why are there so many Christian sects? Surely, if the Holy Spirit is on his game, every sect would believe the same thing and they would become ONE body with ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism.

Some Christians are what I call red-letter Christians. They give great weight and authority to the “words” of Jesus in the gospels. With great passion and commitment they attempt to walk in the steps of Jesus. (WWJD) Unfortunately, they rarely consider whether or not the words attributed to Jesus in the gospels are actually his words. Jesus didn’t write any of the books found in the Bible. (which is odd) Many modern scholars question who actually wrote the gospels and some scholars doubt that the actual writers were Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. The words of the gospels were not put on parchment until decades after the death of Jesus, the Christ, so the best a modern-day Christian can say about the gospels is that they are words written by an unknown person who recorded what someone told the writer Jesus said.

Believing that God or the Holy Spirit or Jesus wrote, spoke, or guided the writers of the Bible text requires faith. Such claims cannot, outside of the text itself, be proved. Either you believe the Bible is truth or you don’t. I am an atheist today primarily because I no longer believe the Bible is truth. It’s all about faith.

Every Christian belief rest not on God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, but on the authority of a human being or a group of human beings. It is humans who decide what the Bible says. It is humans who decide what this or that verse means. Whether it is a denomination, the Pope, theologians, a pastor, or an individual Christian, it is a human who is the final authority. At best, the only thing a Christian can claim is THUS SAITH THE POPE, MY DENOMINATION, MY PASTOR, MY COLLEGE PROFESSORS OR MYSELF!! Any claim that it is God speaking of leading is a matter of faith, a matter that cannot empirically be proved. In other words, you are just going to have to take their word for it…….or not!

Christians need to get off their Bible High-Horse and admit who the real final authority is. The fact that there are thousands of Christian sects shows very clearly that humans are the ones with the final say on what the Bible does and doesn’t say. It is humans who preach, write books, teach theology classes, blog, and debate.

God may have said, but it is humans who get the final say as to what God actually said or what he meant to say. Every Christian statement of belief is an interpretation of the Bible. It is that person or group saying this is what the Bible says. In other words, the person is saying I know what God said.

Name one Christian teaching that ALL Christians agree on? That Jesus was a real person……and that’s about it. Every other teaching of the so-called “faith once delivered to the saints” is disputed by some Christian sect or the other. If the Christian church was a married couple they would have long since been divorced for irreconcilable differences. Oh wait, that is exactly what has happened. The Christian church is hopelessly splintered with no hope of unity.

Children in Evangelical Sunday Schools learn to sing the B-I-B-L-E song. In light of what I have written above, the lyrics of the song should be changed:

The  B-I-B-L-E, yes that MIGHT be the Book for me, I SOMETIMES stand alone on the WORDS OF MEN, the B-I-B-L-E.

B-I-B-L-E!!

Until God shows up in person and says YES, I wrote this convoluted, contradictory book that makes me out to be a hateful vindictive sadist, I am not going to believe the Bible is God’s Word. If God really wrote the Bible do you think he would have written what he did? If God had control of the writing process do you think he would have included his unsavory side? If God was involved in putting the Bible together don’t you think he would have proofread it and made sure that there were no mistakes and that the text was internally consistent?

Instead, Christians spend countless hours trying to harmonize (making it all fit) the text of the Bible. They put forth laughable explanations for the glaring errors found in the Bible. Well, you know Bruce, Jesus cleansed the Temple at the start of his ministry and the end of his ministry! Sure he did. Sometimes I wonder if Christians know how foolish some of the harmonizing attempts sound to those on the outside of the church. (or someone like me who has been on both sides of the fence) Of course, according to the Bible, the harmonization’s sound foolish because the non-Christian doesn’t have the Holy Spirit inside of him teaching him what is true. And so ‘round and ‘round the merry-go-round goes.

If Christians want to believe the Bible and worship God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit I have no beef with them. If they want to believe the Bible and its teaching who am I to say they can’t.  However, when they insist that everyone believe the Bible and believe in their God and that the Bible and their God is the only one, true religion then I have a problem. When Christians insist that the Bible and its teachings be taught to public school children I have a problem. When Christians try to make the moral and ethical code taught in the Bible (or their interpretation of it) applicable to everyone I have a problem.

Here’s what I am saying…..take the Bible, go to your houses of worship and believe and worship as you will. It is your business and I have no grounds for complaining about it, However, I expect you to keep your beliefs to yourself. If I don’t ask, you don’t tell. Stop all the theocratic, God-rule talk. Stop trying to turn American into a Christian nation. Stop demonizing everyone who disagrees with your beliefs. In other words, be a good human being, and not a prickish religious fanatic who thinks everyone should hear about the Christian God whether they want to or not.

Do you think American Christians can do what I mentioned above?

Not a chance.

So we fight on……..

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. What Do Christians Really Believe About God, Jesus, and the Bible
2. Liberals and the Bible
3. Bible Gymnastics

Why would any woman want to be a Christian? If the Bible is the Word of God, inspired by God, and every word true, why would any modern, thinking woman ever darken the door of an Evangelical/Fundamentalist church?

Over the past 100 years women have continued to gain rights and privileges kept from them by men, law and social propriety. The right to vote. Equal pay for equal work. The right to use birth control. The right to have an abortion. The right to divorce.  While women do not yet have equal rights and privileges in this country huge progress has been made to that end.

Why don’t women have true equal rights and privileges in America? Don’t deceive yourself into thinking they do. There are still places in our society where the signs say Men Only. (as there are signs that say White Only and Heterosexual Only)

The primary reason women are denied basic civil rights and social privileges are the teachings of the Christian Bible. While we rightly criticize the patriarchy movement, the basic tenets of the movement were common practice a hundred years ago.

Christianity teaches that women are inferior to men. The Bible calls women a weaker vessel. The Bible teaches women are to be married, keepers of the home, bearers of children, and sex partners for their husband. (unless the husband goes Old Testament and has multiple wives and concubines). Quite simply the Bible teaches that the world of women revolves around husband, food, children, and sex.

If the Bible is meant to be taken as written women have no part in the governance of society or the church. Women are relegated to teaching children, and as women age they are given the task of teaching younger women how to be a good wife.

1 Timothy 5:14 says:

I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Titus 2:2-4 says:

That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

The Bible teaches women are to keep silent in the Church:

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:33-35

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 Timothy 2:11,12

The Bible regulates how women are to dress and wear their hair:

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. I Timothy 2:9,10

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

⁶For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 1 Corinthians 11:5,6

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 1 Corinthians 11:13-15

The Bible teaches that women are to be in subjection to their husband:

For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 1 Peter 4:5,6

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Ephesians 5:22-24

The Bible teaches that having a wife is a sure way to avoid fornication:

Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 1 Corinthians 7:1-3

Women were created for men:

Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 1 Corinthians 11:9

And this is just the New Testament. The Old Testament portrays women as chattel, not much different from livestock. Women should be thrilled to have all the liberties the New Testament gives them. (this is sarcasm btw)

Liberal and progressive Christians try to make all these verses go away by saying they are no longer applicable or that they must be interpreted in their historical context. Fine. Let’s do the same with Jesus. A case can be made for Jesus being no longer applicable and surely we must interpret the teachings of Christ in their historical context. Of course this would result in Jesus being more irrelevant than he already is.

Millions of women attend Christian churches that believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. The church they attend proudly claims to be a bible-believing church. Some churches follow the above mentioned verses to the letter while other churches pretend the verses are not in the Bible.  The latter are bible-believers lite. If they taught all of these verses as written there would be empty houses and beds by nightfall.

Many Christian women, those not brainwashed by literalist pastors and husbands, ignore the verses I mentioned. They tend to love Jesus and say screw the rest. While this viewpoint is rationally inconsistent and contrary to the teachings of the Bible I certainly understand women doing this.

Most Christian women are not into theology. Theology is what men do. (this says women are not educationally proficient enough to “do theology”. Best to let men do the hard thinking) Women embrace Christianity and continue in the church because of the social and family connection they have with others in the church. They are willing to put up with being considered second class citizens as long as they can maintain the social and family connections. I suspect this is due to the maternal instinct that most women have.

Some Christian women realize  they have been taken captive by the bible, a book that men use to dominate and control them.  Remember the “hell hath no fury” line that talks about a woman scorned?  Once women realize they can be free from the control and domination of men……watch out.

Many women, once free, leave Christianity altogether. Others make their peace with God and the church. If their marriage survives they adopt an egalitarian way of life. Marriage becomes a joint, a shared relationship. Gone are the religious and social strictures meant to keep women in their place.

For those who have left Christianity, how did your marriage and your relationship with your husband change?

For those who are still in the Christian church, what changes have you made to your beliefs and practices to reflect your rejection of the Bible verses above?

Perhaps you still embrace the Evangelical/Fundamentalist teaching on women. Your comments are welcome too.

Other Posts You Might Enjoy:

1. Christian Radar
2. Women, The Doormat Of The Church
3. How I KNOW Christianity is True Says the Christian

Despite a clear request on the contact form to NOT send me emails like the one that follows, some Christians just can’t help themselves. It is like they have this pathological need to prove themselves right and what better way than to tell a man who was a Christian for 50 years, a pastor for 25 years, that he is wrong.

A man in his 40’s who self-describes himself as a scientist/engineer and loosely associated with the emerging church movement writes:

I find your blog very interesting….

….Suppose someone is telling you he used to be Mormon/Yehovah’s Witness/Moonie, but now is no longer a Christian. You would be puzzled, right? So was I when I read that you were a fundamentalist, but now you are no longer a Christian.

Why is it puzzling. I once was and now I am not. The fact that you can not wrap your mind around this fact doesn’t change it. The problem is that your theology is getting in the way of common sense. People change beliefs all the time. I once was a Republican and now I am a Democrat. According to your logic, I never really was a Republican. After all, if I was, I would still be a Republican.

People change. People mature. You admitted yourself that you changed beliefs and churches a few times. Are you not being hypocritical?

Your error is a common one among the human species. We take our experiences, our beliefs, and we judge everyone else by that standard. Of course I don’t measure up. How could I….after all…….are your ready for it…I AM NOT YOU!

….There were commentators claiming that, on the basis of the once-saved-always-saved doctrine, you never were a Christian. You insisted you were a Christian because you had a conversion experience, you honestly believed what the Church believed, and you were serving as a pastor for 25 years.

No, you are dead wrong here. I was a Christian not only because I had a conversion experience BUT as a result of that conversion experience I followed after Jesus Christ. I didn’t believe what the Church believed. I believed what I thought the Bible taught and I taught that every Sunday and Thursday from the pulpit.

I think the once-saved-always-saved doctrine is nonsense. Otherwise, the passage in Hebrews 6 you mentioned in a recent post would make no sense. Nevertheless, I believe you never were a Christian.

This is your opinion, nothing more and nothing less. Millions of Christians disagree with you. Whole denominations disagree with you. Calvinism and Arminianism and all their step-children can clearly be found in the Bible. That is what is so neat about the Bible…..it supports virtually every theological system.

Of course the real issue here is that you KNOW you are right. What YOU believe is the faith once delivered to the saints. You are so certain of your certainty that you feel you can judge the spiritual relationship of others. In other words, you are God.

Some commentator was pointing out that being a Christian is a relationship rather than a religion. You replied that Christianity is text-based, therefore it is a religion.

I have heard fundamentalists preaching over and over that being a Christian is all about a relationship to Christ and not at all about following religious rules. I would be surprised if it was different in your case. When you still were in office, you probably did not preach that there is no such thing as a relationship to Christ, but, on the contrary, Christianity is entirely a text-based religion.

You are a careless reader or you have not reach much of what I have written.

Christianity IS a text based religion. No Bible=No Christianity. However, I never would have said that a relationship with Jesus Christ is not important. If you read carefully what I write you will notice that what I reject is the notion that a person can have a relationship with Jesus apart from the teachings of the Bible. How does a Christian KNOW they have a right relationship with Jesus? Is it a touchy-feely emotion? Of course not. The standard is the teachings of the Bible.

The modern, It’s a Relationship movement is just an attempt to ignore or reject any part of the Bible they don’t like. I reject such thinking. I am an all-in kind of person. Say you are a follower of Jesus? Then follow him all the way. Like the Bible says, “follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth.”

Fundamentalists preach that Christianity means a relationship to Christ, but they actually believe something else – namely that being a Christian means (i) having a conversion experience, (ii) believing that the Bible is “inerrant”, and (iii) participating in Christian activities. As it is characteristic of sects and cults, they hide their true believes behind coded language. They are deceiving themselves and others. It is the same with political sects. For example, communists and Nazis frequently use the term “freedom”, but it has a different meaning for them.

Maybe in the “cults” you were a part of but not the “cult” I was a part of. All religions, by the way, are, by definition, cults.

The Bible is clear that being a Christian means having a relationship to Christ. There is a warning about false Christians who think they are Christians but are not. They are called wolves, because they are dangerous as they lure people in their cults and keep them from the true knowledge of Christ.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves … On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?” And then will I declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.”

I will assume that you think I was a cult leader, that I never had a relationship with Christ, and that I was a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

What can I say to such closed minded, arrogant thinking that I have not said countless times before?

I have come to realize this about people like you. It is not about me, it is about you. You need certainty. You need to know you are right. You need your past and present validated. What better what to do it than to deconstruct and invalidate a prominent Evangelical Pastor turned atheist’s life story.

Interestingly, these people are unaware that they are wolves, but consider themselves Christians on the basis of their works (e.g., going to a Bible college, serving as a missionary). Jesus makes clear that they are not Christians because they don’t know him.

No, again, I considered myself a Christian based on the relationship I had with Jesus. That said, faith without works is dead and 1 John 1 makes it clear that the measure of true Christianity is how a person lives. Want to compare Christian dicks? I bet mine is bigger than yours.

Because of the relationship I had with Jesus, I worked day and night to win souls to Jesus and build up the body of Christ.

Here is what I find so interesting. You read a few blog posts and you KNOW I was never a Christian. You KNOW I was a cult leader and a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Yet, for 50 years as a Christian and 25 years as a pastor, not ONE pastor or parishioner ever questioned whether or not I was a Christian. I came into contact with thousands of people and not one person EVER suggested I wasn’t a Christian. They might have disagreed with what I taught but they never doubted that I was a sincere follower of Jesus. Yet, you have a special gift from God to be able to discern whether or not someone is a Christian. I suspect there would be a huge demand for a Christian detector like you IF such a gift was real. (hint:it is not)

Apparently you did not know Christ. You did not taste the heavenly gift, became partaker of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come. Otherwise, you could not be an atheist today. You could not believe that these things you have once experienced do not exist.

In my opinion, the key to becoming a Christian is honestly searching God. This will be rewarded by finding God.

I choose to understand my Christian past in a sociological and psychological context. My birth, upbringing, and environment had a lot to do with the fact that I was a Christian. Of course you reject such notions, but the facts, from study after study, are on my side. Who a person’s parents are and where they are born go a long way in determining what religious belief they have.

The fact remains, I once was a Christian and I now I am not. I know what I know and I was there when it happened. I only respond to your email in this manner because I think some of the readers of this blog will find my response helpful.

Your final paragraph is quite careless and could lead one to conclude that as long as someone is seeking God that is all that matters. Of course, I would somewhat agree with that. However you mean YOUR God, don’t you? The Christian God. Your flavor of the Christian God. When a person is like YOU then they will know they have found the true God.  Seems quite cultic to me.

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