Tag Archives: Bible

Liberals, Evangelicals and the Bible

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hath_god_said

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have been following a discussion about creationism on James McGrath’s blog.  The discussion has been quite entertaining.  As an atheist who thinks the Bible is an errant, fallible book made up mostly of mythical stories, I find the arguments between Evangelical Christians and Liberal Christians about the nature of the Bible better than Saturday Night Live.

The recent discussion on McGrath’s blog is primarily between a young earth creationist named Tim, (yes THAT Tim who commented on this blog a few weeks ago and here too)  and McGrath and several other like-minded commenters.

While the discussion is primarily about science, there are a few comments about the Bible, salvation, and who owns the “real” Christian interpretation of the Bible.  McGrath, a liberal Christian, believes his interpretive tradition is the historic tradition of Christianity. Tim, however, believes his literalistic interpretation of the Bible is the historic position of Christianity.

Added to the entertainment is  Tim insisting on knowing the spiritual credentials of McGrath and other commenters.  Tim asked McGrath:

Have you ever come to know Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord?
Do you know Him and love Him today?
Do you believe what He says?

Standard Evangelical stuff.  McGrath did not answer Tim directly, pointed to other things he has written on his blog, and refused to give Tim what he wanted; a clear, concise, testimony of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Why is this important to Tim? Simple. Tim states:

One’s relationship with Jesus Christ has EVERYTHING to do with our discussion. One may be highly educated, yet not wise. For it is the fear of the LORD that is the beginning of wisdom.

According to Tim’s interpretation of the Bible, true wisdom, knowledge, and understanding comes from having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. In Tim’s mind. believing in evolution is a denial of the Word of God, and a denial of God himself.

The Evangelical believes the Bible as it is written. For the most part they are literalistic in their reading of the text.  This is why almost half of Americans believe God created the world, as is,  in the last  ten thousand years.  It is, after all, what the Bible says.

Evolutionary biology, geology,physics, astronomy, and archeology tell a very different story. We live in a universe that is billions of years old, a world where humans evolved over millions of years.  It is clear that modern science and creationism are incompatible and no matter how one tries, it is impossible to reconcile the two.

Liberal Christians like McGrath allow modern science to shape their understanding of the Bible. When science conflicts with the Bible, science wins.  The Evangelical, on the other hand, never lets science have the final say. When science conflicts with the Bible, the Bible wins.

Does this mean the liberal Christian has the upper hand? Not necessarily.  While the Evangelical is way too literal in his reading and interpretation of the Bible, the liberal Christian is far too willing to abandon anything that doesn’t fit their modern, scientific understanding of the world.

So, the Evangelical says, The Bible says_________________________ and the liberal Christian replies, that is poetry, allegory, or meant for a different culture or time.  Rarely does a liberal Christian explain how they come to their conclusions on a particular text. It seems they just explain away anything that doesn’t “fit.”

Here’s the problem I have with how liberal Christians read and interpret the Bible. If Genesis is poetry or allegory why not treat the story of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus the same way? While modern science certainly discredits the Evangelical belief about Genesis, can we not say the same thing about the liberal Christian’s belief about who and what Jesus Christ was?

At the end of the day, every Christian is a literalist.  The question is, to what degree are they a literalist.  The Evangelical views most  of the Bible from a literalistic viewpoint, the liberal Christian only views small parts of the Bible as literal.

The  liberal Christian is quite willing to jettison most everything  in the Bible except their belief in Jesus.  Why is the story of Jesus special?

The liberal Christian will argue that modern science clearly shows that creationism is false.  Fine, I agree. But, modern science also shows us that virgins don’t get pregnant, the miracles ascribed to Jesus didn’t happen, and dead people don’t get back out of the grave.  Why does the liberal Christian willingly use science to discard creationism to the ancient relic dustbin but not Jesus himself?  Maybe Jesus was just an allegory or a metaphor? (and I am not a mythicist. I think Jesus was a real person who lived and died in Palestine during the early days of the first century.)

In most cases, I prefer talking about the Bible and theology with the Evangelical.  With the liberal Christian, discussing the Bible with them is often like nailing Jell-O to the wall.  They are a constantly moving target, ever-changing depending on changes in their understanding of the world.

Let me be clear, I think Evangelicalism is harmful mentally and emotionally. I think it teaches people a naïve way of looking at the world than often has tragic consequences. (especially when their beliefs enter the political arena)

In every way, the liberal Christian way of thinking is better for our world. I just wish they would go one step farther, and admit what many of us agnostics and atheist suspect is true; that liberal Christians are atheists/agnostics who like to go to church.

For Further Investigation

Tim’s Blog
James McGrath’s blog

If the Bible REALLY is True

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bible_trueDo Evangelical Christians really believe the Bible is true? Do they really believe the Bible is God’s divine revelation to humankind?  They say they do. They come to this blog and argue and debate with me about this or that…but do they REALLY believe the Bible is true?

The proof of what a person believes is how they live their lives. We give our time, money, and effort to the things we consider important.

So, I ask you dear Evangelical…if the Bible is true, if it is God’s divine revelation to humankind, why do your actions suggestion you really don’t believe the Bible is true?

Ask any Evangelical, do you believe in hell?

Ask any Evangelical, do you believe that a person must be saved to go to heaven?

They will answer with a resounding YES!!

If hell is as awful as the Bible says it is and the only way a person can escape hell is by being saved, by putting their faith and trust in Jesus Christ, why do most Evangelicals live lives that say that hell is not real?

According to Evangelicals, most of the 7 billion people on earth do not know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Most people will die without being saved and will go to hell to be tortured for all eternity. They will go to a place where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

If this is so…why do so few Evangelicals witness? Why do so few Evangelicals share their faith with those headed to a Christless hell?

Instead Evangelicals are busy going to work, buying lands and houses and cars, taking their kids to soccer practice, watching Netflix…living the same life that hell-bound people are living.

Did not Jesus say:

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. (Matthew 16:24,25)

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. (Matthew 10:37-39)

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?… The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?  Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. (Matthew 19:16, 19-22)

It is for this reason the Apostle Paul thought it better that Christians not marry. By not marrying they could give their complete attention to preaching the good news of the gospel. When a person marries they have divided loyalties and can not give Christ all he deserves. Wouldn’t it be more honoring to Christ if Evangelicals never married? (imagine a world with no Duggard’s on TV)

So what is my point, you ask? Simple. Evangelicals don’t really believe the Bible word for word from cover to cover.  They pick and choose what they want to believe and ignore or explain away the rest.

Imagine there is a sickness that is spreading across the world, killing everyone who gets it.  You have an antidote that will protect a person from the sickness, yet you keep the antidote for yourself. You make sure you can’t get the sickness but have no concern about the millions of people who are dying without the antidote.  Your only concern is yourself.

This is exactly what most Evangelicals do. They say they have the antidote for sin. They say they have the one thing that can keep people from dying and going to hell, yet they do not share this wonderful truth with anyone.

Why is this? To put it simply, Evangelical Christianity is a social club where likeminded people gather to encourage one another and find their beliefs reinforced.  To use a Walking Dead analogy, as long as they are safe inside the prison they don’t  care about the walkers (the walking dead) outside the prison fence.

Evangelicals need to be honest with us. They think we are going to hell and they don’t care.  They are too busy taking care of their own soul to be bothered with the souls of unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines.

Of course, as an atheist, I am glad that Evangelicals are hypocrites and do not really think the Bible is true. Can you imagine Evangelicals, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, knocking on your door every day of the week as they go from house to house preaching the good news of the gospel?

Let me end this post with the words of the Apostle Paul:

Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews: And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Tell me, dear Evangelical, how is your life any different than mine? In what way is your life a statement that you take the commands and teachings of the Bible  seriously? If you are going to say, I am a Christian, then you ought to, at least, go to the Bible and find out what that means. I suspect arguing with an atheist on his blog or spending all your time surfing the internet, tweeting, playing Farmville, or any of the other countless human pleasures Evangelicals engage in, are not signs of a person who takes their call to follow in the footsteps of Jesus seriously.

Ken Ham Asks His Disciples to Pray for Me

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adam_dino

Should I feel honored?  Smile You can check out what Young Earth Creationist  Ken Ham had to say on his Facebook page.  Here is what some of his disciples had to say in response to a recent post of mine:

The level of pure hatred in their writings are almost palpable. They are the blind, leading the blind right into Hell!

Should not their own venomous hatred be a warning to them that they are not thinking clearly and rationally? How can they possibility imagine that they are walking in truth when they are eaten up with bitterness and loathing?

And as is highly typical of skeptics, they use lots of insults and personal attacks.
In fact, insults are their personal mark and business card. Remember too – Satan is called the accuser of the brethren.

Sad for them. Their hearts are hardened.

evil is cancer…it spreads quickly everywhere…it destorys the ability to think or even reason…the worldly mind just cannot understand the wisdom of God. Praise God for grace.

So much anger and hatred. Just proves, in my mind, that this is a spiritual battle.

I really think the average Christian needs to have a better quick come back for the “God said” “God is speaking to me” and why the Bible is true… Those objections are voiced over and over again and I find the average Christian raised in our churches today simply has no good quick answer….

Jesus said we would be hated by this world because it hated Him first. Also all those who want to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

“we are coming for your children.” Over my dead body.

“We are coming for your children” … Arrogant, conceited, rude and intrusive, aren’t they?

This may be the most difficult part of being a Christian, Ken: standing in the face of uncalled-for hatred. Perhaps we should all think of Jesus being nailed to the cross as we hear this kind of nonsensical hatred. Their pride will destroy them. Repentance is the only way….

While we MUST expose the wiles of the evil one, we must also remember that apart from the Grace of God, many of us would likely be in the same position they are in. Jesus warned us that in the End Times there would be a great deception and this is obvious. It is only by the Grace of God that we do not fall for this deception. We are indeed in a war and our enemy does not play fair. Fortunately, we fight with a Commander-in-Chief who also does not fight fair. Our Commander wins…PERIOD because he overcame death, sin, the grave, deception, and every other weapon the enemy throws at us. NO WEAPON formed against us shall prosper. The lies, the hate, the slander, the fear, all the weapons these atheists throw at us shall not prosper.

These atheists are not as secure as they present themselves to be. The truth of God’s Word dispels darkness. Be encouraged Ken. “But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.” Romans 5:20

The claim that Bible belief and teaching retards the thinking of young people is not true. Since the Bible is true, that would be impossible! If science from the beginning had believed and searched the scriptures, there would have been more progress. For example, science once believed in bleeding people to make them feel better, a flat earth, and more. Bible knowledge would have prevented those errors of “science” along with the impossible theory of evolution – the “belief” that everything came from nothing with no influence from any power or intelligence. Now that’s retarded thinking.

And again we see the humanists’ “tolerance”!

I’m interested in reading these updates, but I’d like to follow up on something you wrote above. I have NEVER met anyone who hates God, ever. I’ve never heard anyone say that. They do hate us and our interpretation of God’s word (truth!).

Thank you for sharing. It is so sad that the lost cannot understand the truth and their deception turns their anger towards those who proclaim the truth. We need to understand those on the other side to know how to combat their influence.

Even so, Come Lord Jesus!

Wow…such hatred. I think it is sad that the Christians use to be dogmatic, and that crowd was quiet, and now it has flipped around. They are dogmatic, and the Christians have become the quiet ones. And the gall of people like this to discredit all Creationists, and especially to discredit the credentials of scientists who are Creationists, is unjust. These scientists have payed for their education, and spent as much of their life in school, as the secular scientists, and so it is unjust to claim that these guys are dumb and stupid.

Never forget a man got up and walked out of the grave……….Atheists are such fools.

He needs to know that we don’t believe in the 7 day creation because a pastor said “God said,” but because God said! We need to stick to the word. Thanks Mr Ken.

if God is not real, why would I waste my time arguing or caring about what Christians thought….nothing meanings anything if there is no God….so I would spend my time in as much pleasure and selfishness as possible as I only have maybe 80 years of meaningless existence…I would not want to waste a second on science or Christianity…who cares?…the fact they oppose so strongly shows they are scared and insecure in their own beliefs

I asked a few Athiest once, why do you talk about God so much if God doesn’t exist? Why do you mock it? An Athiest told me its because of all the violence and wars. And I asked if that is true. Why is it a Christian God and not any other gods, for example Allah the god of Islam?.. I have personally paid attention to the media and tv shows that would make fun of religion. And also been in Philosophy classes where they would bring up a Christian God most of the time. Even they say Christianity copied other religions when it was the other way around they pic and choose things. Indeed we are living in the End times I believe. More Christians are being persecuted there was/still is being more Christians being persecuted in the last century than the 1900 years after 0A.D all together. The Lord has really told me that He is my shield. And to have full Faith in Him. As I’ve been reading Scripture lately.

These comments are a good primer on how Fundamentalist Christians think about people like me. Did you notice how often the words angry, hate, hatred are used? However, outside of saying Ken Ham is a snake oil salesman, which he is, there is nothing angry or hateful about my post. I was simply responding to an article written by Ham.

As long as they can convince themselves atheists are angry and hateful, they are free to dismiss us. But I , for one, am not angry or hateful. I am pointed and forceful and I oppose the bankrupt belief system Ken Ham is selling. But, angry and hateful? They got the wrong guy. Smile

Here’s my favorite comment from Don Swaringen, a 1961 graduate of Bob Jones University :

The claim that Bible belief and teaching retards the thinking of young people is not true. Since the Bible is true, that would be impossible! If science from the beginning had believed and searched the scriptures, there would have been more progress. For example, science once believed in bleeding people to make them feel better, a flat earth, and more. Bible knowledge would have prevented those errors of “science” along with the impossible theory of evolution – the “belief” that everything came from nothing with no influence from any power or intelligence. Now that’s retarded thinking.

Let’s see:

  • “The claim that Bible belief and teaching retards the thinking of young people is not true.” Why ? The “Bible is true.”  Talk about circular reasoning. The Bible is true because the Bible says it is true.
  • Bloodletting? A procedure performed on people for 1,900 years, long before the modern scientific era.  Countless Christians and clergymen were bled by Christian doctors. All of them had the Bible at their disposal, yet none of them found the “truth.”  It took scientists, not theologians, to find out that, in most cases, bloodletting does not help a sick person.
  • Flat earth? Evidently, Swaringen is not aware that the flat earth belief came, in part from the Bible. (Daniel 4:10, Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1)  (Excellent article on the relevant Bible passages that teach the earth is flat)
  • There would be more progress if science believed the Bible? Really? I mean really? What about the scientists that were killed for going against the Bible and the teachings of the Christian church? What does history tells us about countries that have a religious-text based science? Look at the Muslim world and see for yourself.
  • Science does make errors but it correct them. When’s the last time the Don Swaringen’s of the world have “corrected” an error in their Bible or theology? Everyone now….NEVER!

I stand my my statement:

…Teaching children the earth is 6,000 years old, that God killed with a flood every human being save eight a few thousand years ago, and that anyone who does not accept the Evangelical version of the Christian God will be tortured by the Evangelical God in hell for eternity, is quite harmful to the intellectual development of children.

The waiting rooms of mental health professionals are filled with people who have had their sense of self-worth damaged or destroyed by Christian teachings like original sin. Being told you are wicked, that you can be oppressed or possessed by Satan, and that God holds absolute power of your life, does not make for a healthy mind,

So, to Ken Ham, I say this: Yes we are coming for your children. We hope to expose them to the wide, wondrous universe we live in. We hope to teach them to think critically and not to accept something as fact just because a preacher said, God said __________________.

I am not anti-Christian or anti-religion. I am, however, anti-ignorance. I think parents hurt their children when they keep them from ALL the knowledge available about the universe and their place in it….

My Preaching Bible

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When I left the Christian faith, I got rid of most of my theological books and all of my Bibles except one. I kept a King James Version Cambridge Bible.  A Cambridge Bible is THE Bible to own. Exquisite craftsmanship, built to hold up under the weekly abuse of a Baptist preacher.

When I wrote the recent post, Jesus is Coming Soon, I couldn’t remember part of the end-time chronology, so I blew the dust  off my KJV Cambridge Bible (literally, like most good Baptists do) and turned to the book of Revelation. After finding what I needed, I looked at the dedication page and the note page in the back and this is what I found:

cambridge_bible-001

Bruce Gerencser

2000

Our Father’s House  West Unity, Ohio

Woe unto me if I preach not the Gospel of Christ!!

God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in him.

cambridge_bible

A sermon outline for John 3:16 (preached numerous times at various churches and events)

  1. For God-The Starting Point
  2. So Loved the World-Why?
  3. That he gave his only begotten son-Ultimate Gift
  4. That Whosoever-The Wideness of God’s Love
  5. Believeth in Him-What is it to believe?
  6. Should not perish-Die and face the Lake of Fire
  7. Have Everlasting Life-Sleep and Eternal Kingdom

I thought some of you might find this interesting.

Odd stuff for a deceived, never was saved, preacher to write in his Bible, yes? Smile

Local Boy Scout Leaders Support Bigotry, A Letter to the Editor

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This entry is part 19 of 22 in the seriesLetters to the Editor

Dear Editor,

It comes as no surprise that local Boy Scout leaders are against gays being allowed to be a part of the Boy Scouts. Rural NW Ohio is a homogenous area known for bigotry. We may be nice, friendly, country people, but behind the façade are beliefs that marginalize anyone who is not white, Christian, and heterosexual.

Local Boy Scout leaders are right; the Bible does condemn homosexuality. In fact, the Apostle Paul wrote that homosexuality is a sign of reprobation. This is why, in the 21st century, we must abandon the Bible as the standard for morality. While Christians are free to live by the teachings of the Bible, in a pluralistic, secular society, where supposedly all people are equal, there is no place for discrimination against any group of people.

The Boy Scouts are free to fly the banner of bigotry. I hope local churches that sponsor Boy Scout troops will consider what their support of bigotry says to the local community. I hope they will also consider what message they are sending to the youth who attend their churches and participate in the Boy Scouts. If we desire a more progressive, tolerant society, then we must begin by opposing intolerance and bigotry wherever it is found.

The Boy Scouts are a private group and are free to set membership standards. Local residents are also free to withhold their giving through United Way to the Boy Scouts. Perhaps church members, who are appalled by the bigotry of local Boy Scout leaders and local churches that sponsor Boy Scout troops, will withhold their offerings until the discrimination against gays end.

If we want a more just and tolerant society, we must oppose intolerance and injustice wherever it is found. We cannot let an antiquated, irrelevant book, written centuries ago, dictate how we should treat others today. While there are many good teachings in the Bible, there are also abhorrent, immoral teachings, that people who respect others, regardless of their race, religion, or sexual orientation, must reject.

One thing is certain. Gay people are not going to return to the closet. They are out and intend to stay out. I hope there will come a day in Ohio when gays are afforded equal protection under the law. I hope there will come a day when gays are allowed to marry and have the same marital rights as heterosexuals. When the day comes when gays can legally marry in Ohio, I hope to be the first person in Defiance County to perform a same-sex marriage. Above all, I hope for a more just and tolerant society. As shown by the bigotry of local Boy Scout leaders, we have a long way to go.

Sincerely,
Bruce Gerencser
Ney, Ohio

From the Sunday, February 10, 2013 issue of the Defiance Crescent-News:

The possibility that the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) could end its 103-year-old ban on openly gay members and leaders does not sit well with area scout leaders and former Eagle scouts.

“I think the higher-ups are crazy,” said Charlie Duerk, scoutmaster of Troop 75 in Defiance for the past 58 years. “They are going to ruin the scout program.” …

…”I’ve talked to a lot of other scout leaders and they don’t want to have any part of it,” said Duerk, who has mentored 92 Eagle Scouts during his tenure. “Letting it up to the individual councils or troops won’t work. What would happen at the (national) Jamboree when you have scouts from all over the world? We’ve got a good program the way things are.”

Marc Beach, a lifelong Defiance resident who earned his Eagle in 1973 and whose son, Christopher, followed suit in 2005, echoed Duerk’s comments.

“I am not for this (change). I believe what the Bible says (about homosexuality),” said Beach, currently a Troop 75 committee member. “A lot of us (local Boy Scout leaders) have talked about it. If the ban is lifted at the national level, many people will decide to get out of the organization.”

Complicating the issue, both in northwest Ohio and nationwide, is that about 70 percent of scout troops are chartered through churches. In Defiance alone, separate troops are sponsored by St. Paul’s United Methodist, St. John Lutheran, St. John Catholic and St. Mary Catholic.

“I hate to speculate how our church partners would react if the ban is lifted,” said Vic Pooler, scout executive and CEO of the Black Swamp Area Council which covers 13 counties in northwestern and west central Ohio. “Our church partners are critically important. I hope it would not affect the quality of our program.”

Defiance resident Larry Kisor, who earned his Eagle award in 1967, said churches that charter troops typically use them as an evangelism tool and as a means to provide spiritual direction to boys involved in scouting.

“The churches view it as a form of religious education, a way to reach scouts and to encourage them to have a spiritual life. Each faith denomination has its own religious awards (e.g. God and Family and God and Church for Protestants; Light of Christ and Parvuli Dei for Catholics). If the ban on gays is lifted, I think fewer churches would be involved and that would make it tougher for the scouts to earn the religious awards.”

Kisor’s father, Adrian, was a well-known area scout leader who served Troop 71 from 1955 until his death in 1997. During that entire period, the now-defunct troop was sponsored by First Church of God.

“Dad was very proud of the church’s affiliation and support,” said Kisor. “For many years Carlton Powell was the cub scout leader, dad was the boy scout leader and Lester Schmunk was the explorer troop leader. All three men were active members of the church. The scouting program was used as a bridge to help in the religious education of the scouts, even those who were not members of the church.” …

Lawrence O’Donnell on the Bible

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What follows is a video clip of Lawrence O’Donnell talking about the Bible during the REWRITE portion of his MSNBC show called The Last Word.

I think O’Donnell is spot on and he bluntly says what most politicians and talking TV heads are afraid to say. Kudos to Lawrence O’Donnell and a hearty AMEN my pew in the godless universe.

Video Link

If The Bible is God’s Word

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Guest post by Exrelayman

If the Bible were God’s word:

1. It would be perfectly engrossing. You would love reading it.

2. It would be perfectly clear. There would not be any disagreement anywhere about the meaning of any verse or passage.

3. It would be perfectly persuasive. People of any other faith would convert immediately upon reading this clear and persuasive message.

4. It would perfectly distributed to all the cultures of the world simultaneously, in their own language.

5. It would be perfectly indestructible. Neither years nor flood nor flame could mar or destroy it.

6. It would be perfectly original and accurate in all that it says.

In brief, it would be a perfect revelation proceeding from a perfect God.

And what do we observe in the real world:

1a. Very hard to force yourself to slog through it. Most who profess Christianity don’t struggle through all the begats and directions for making temple garments. Very inferior to myriads of mere human novelists.

2a. Earnest disagreement about what it actually says has led to thousands of differing denominations. Not so clear then.

3a. It needs a bit of help. Pastors must spend Sundays being persuasive. Persuasive hymns and apologetics are needed. Heaven and hell must be dangled as carrot and stick to evince coercion through hope and fear rather than clear evidential persuasion.

4a. Given at one part of the world, the gospels especially through unknown biased writers at unknown places and times.

5a. As susceptible to decay and destruction as any other book.

6a. Sadly imitative, many other dying and resurrecting savior gods from surrounding cultures preceded the Christ story. The Old Testament stories largely derive from antecedent cultures also. Flatly in conflict with what science has discovered about the age of the Earth and the evolution of life upon it. Flatly contradictory with its own self in numerous places.

At each expectation of what the revelation of a perfect and powerful God would be like, the Bible fails. Now these expectations are admittedly subjective, so that each one of them might be arguable. But cumulatively they become, at least as I see it, irresistable. Thus the verdict that it is not a divine document, but is shown by its own nature to be the product of ignorant and superstitious men writing in ignorant and superstitious times.

No One is Good but God

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Ken “Hambone” Ham, operator of the Creation Museum, and a noted young earth creationist (YEC), states in no uncertain terms that no one is good. Of course, in classic Hambone style he contradicts himself just a few words later.

Ham wrote:

Recently atheists and other secular humanists decided to promote a “National Day of Reason” in opposition to the National Day of Prayer, which was held last Tuesday. These secularists stated that “We are trying to make a better world on our own by emphasizing good works and good deeds on the day” (emphasis added).

I couldn’t help but smile when I saw this statement about secularists wanting to do “good deeds.” So how does an atheist or agnostic determine what is “good”?

I’m reminded of Luke 18 where the rich young ruler came to Jesus:

Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Luke 18:18–19)

There is only one absolute standard by which anyone can determine what is “good,” and that is from the absolute authority who is all “good”—God! Outside of such an absolute standard, “good” is whatever you want to make it to be (if you can get away with it)—it is totally subjective. Some people think it is “good” to steal, for instance. When a culture abandons the absolute standard for what is “good” (as this culture is progressively doing in throwing out God’s Word), then we will see people doing what is right in their own eyes—as we are increasingly experiencing. The recent announcement by the president of the USA in support of “gay” marriage is just one such example—he abandoned the absolute standard for what is “good” and now is wanting to impose his subjective opinion on the nation.

Ham has no love for atheists, agnostics, humanists, deists, liberal Christians, and practioners of non-Christian religions. In fact, he has no love for some who fly under the same Evangelical flag as he does. Ham requires that Evangelicals be circumcised on the 6th literal day just like he was before he will consider them part of the true-blue, blessed by God, sanctified Christian church. Ham is a God said it and I believe it Christian. In his worldview there is no room for discussion, debate, difference of opinion, or nuance. Ken God has spoken!

In honor of Ken Ham, I want to take the Bible exactly as written. Ken uses Luke 18:18,19 to “prove” that no one is good. He could have used other verses like Romans 3:10:12:

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

In using Luke 18:18,19 Ham has a conundrum on his hands. In this passage Jesus says very clearly that no one is good. He is responding to the rich young ruler who called him “good teacher.” Jesus replied:

Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

Jesus makes it clear that no human being is good. Only God is good. Now Jesus is talking with the rich younger ruler as a human being. Since no human being is good then Jesus is not good.

Of course the standard Evangelical comeback is that Jesus was God and human so he was good. But what about his human nature? At best, all one could claim is that Jesus had a split nature, that he was good and bad.

Looking at it this way it seems to me that Jesus was just like every human being I have ever met. Not the God part, of course. Jesus wasn’t God and neither is anyone else. Jesus was a mixture of good and bad just like every human being is. All of us are capable of doing good things and doing bad things.

Evangelicals like Ham, if pressed, must admit that their theology says EVERY human being, Christian or not, is bad. In the delusional world of Ken Ham, good only comes from God. God enables human beings to do good, even non-Christian human beings. God gets all the credit for the good in the world and human beings/Satan get all the blame for the bad.

This works out perfect for God. He can do whatever he wants and if it turns out bad it is our fault or Satan’s fault. In O.J. Simpson parlance, the glove never fits.

Ham believes the Bible is the absolute, infallible, impeccable standard of good. I suppose he makes some attempt to argue away the passages that promote or condone slavery, incest, prostitution, and killing anyone who doesn’t worship the Christian God. No Christian believes every word of the Bible, not without resorting to some sort of Bible-gymnastics.

Many of us have come to the conclusion that the “good” God of the Christian bible is anything but. He certainly can be good, but he is often a mean spirited, capricious, arrogant son-of-a-bitch. He is a God, according to the Bible,  who is quite willing to use violence to get what he wants. We should be glad such a good God does not exist.

If the Bible is God’s absolute  standard by which good is measured, why do Christians disagree with one another about what constitutes “good.” Ham accuses atheists of making it up as they go……..is it any different among Christians?

Every human being determines for themselves what is good and bad. Our upbringing, exposure to religious or philosophical teachings, social environment, education, and social contracts we make with one another, help us determine what moral and ethical standard we will live by.

Ham, and Christians like him, demand an absolute source for determining good and bad. They put their faith in a book that has not had an entry written in it for over 1900 years. The world has changed dramatically since Jesus walked the shores of Galilee. While the Bible may offer us an occasional nugget of wisdom, it has little to say to us when it comes to morality and ethics in this modern day. In fact, it teaches things that thinking people now abhor. (though I am rethinking the whole concubine thing)

We have outgrown the bondage of the Bible. Where Ham sees degradation and people doing whatever they want to do, I see freedom. The freedom to do good things, and yes the freedom to do bad things.

In classic homophobic fashion Ham focuses on the issue of gay marriage. President Obama’s support of gay marriage is a sign to Ken Ham that we have abandoned the absolute standard of good and have instead turned to a subjective standard of good. (situational ethics)

He is right on the first part. We HAVE abandoned the Bible standard of good. We have weighed the Bible’s treatment of homosexuals in the balance of decency and civil rights and found it wanting.

It is a sign of progress when we no longer consider a class of people evil, reprobates, and the enemy of God. Homosexuals are human beings, just like me, Ken Ham, and everyone else. They are capable of doing good and bad just like any human being is. As far as them being married? How does two men or two women marrying each other affect my life or Ken Ham’s life? It is a non-issue. It makes no difference at all.

The good news is this……….we are winning the battle against the Ken Ham’s of the world. The bad news is that this is a generation-long battle, a battle that my grandkids will still be fighting long after my ashes are spread along the shore of Lake Michigan. We must be strong, willing to push back at EVERY attempt to drag the world back into the constraints of the Christian Bible.

Christianity has had 2000 years to work its magic. Look at what it has given us. While I am in no way suggesting that Christianity is evil, I am suggesting that Christianity has proven to be a failed standard by which to govern people. There is a better way, a way that supports and promotes diversity and celebrates individuality. It is called secular humanism.

For those who are unsure about what I mean when I say secular humanism, let me finish this post with the Council of Secular Humanism’s answer to the “What is Secular Humanism?” question:

Secular Humanism is a term which has come into use in the last thirty years to describe a world view with the following elements and principles:

  • A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
  • Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
  • A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
  • A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
  • A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
  • A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
  • A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

Is the Bible the Basis for Truth

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Robert Driskell, at Creation Conversations thinks so:

People understand that the truth matters.  We base our decisions and actions on what we perceive to be true.  For instance, if someone is about to take medicine, they count on the label to be true so that they do not ingest anything harmful.  They want the truth about whether or not any cars are coming when they are about to walk across the street.  The Truth concerning our souls, and its eternal destiny, is incredibly important and merits serious investigation.

Christians consider the Bible to be the Word of God.  As such, the importance of accepting the historicity of the Bible cannot be overstated.  If Jesus is who he says he is, then we should heed his words.  If he is not who he says he is, then there is no basis for Christianity at all.  Jesus said that He is the Way to God, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6 ESV).

Jesus commissioned believers to spread God’s Word (Matthew 28:19-20) and in the book of Jude we read that we are to, “…contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints” (Jude 3 NASB).  Christians share their faith because they love people with the love of Christ, they know what it is like to be forgiven of our sins, and they want to see everyone enjoy a close personal relationship with God.  It is not a question of whether “ours is better or yours is better” but “what is the Truth?”

The Bible tells us that we are to share the Truth of God with anyone who will listen.  Many unbelievers use the misdeeds of some calling themselves Christians to dismiss the veracity of the biblical record.  It is true that some Christians, and many pretending to be Christians, have behaved in ways that did not honor God.  However, these actions were carried out contrary to the will of God, not in accordance with the way He wants us to behave. 

There are also those who dismiss the truth of the Bible because they believe science has proven it untrustworthy.  They believe that science and the biblical record are at odds with one another and that a person can accept one or the other, but not both.  This is simply not true.  Christians do not believe that science is bad.  Rather, when properly interpreted, science and the Bible complement each other.

However, when science hypothesizes as to how we may or may not have begun our existence, they have exited the realm of science and entered the realm of philosophy.  True science, the science that seeks and finds cures for diseases, etc. is a wonderful gift from God.  It should glorify Him in its endeavors.  When science has this outcome, it is perfectly compatible with the Christian faith and adds to the veracity of the Bible.

The Bible contains the truth God wants us to know.  It would be well worth the time spent to find out what it contains.

Driskell shows in this post why it is almost impossible to have a rational discussion with an Evangelical Christian. They operate from the presupposition that the Christian Bible is truth, absolute truth, nothing but the truth, so help them the Christian God.

God has spoken truth to humanity and that truth is recorded in the Bible. While I have no doubt that Driskell would agree that creation and conscience also show us truth, their truth-i-ness must conform to what the Bible says. So when scientists look at the natural world and come to a different conclusion than what is recorded in the Bible, the scientists are wrong. The Bible trumps everything.

The Evangelical Christian is not seeking for truth wherever it may be found. They believe they already have truth and their objective is to conform the natural world they live in to that truth.  Their life is not one of a journey but of a destination. Rather than following the path wherever it leads, they set out on a path predetermined by what they read in the Bible. Any “truth” that does not conform to the Bible is considered false.  That’s why we have Evangelical Christians who believe the earth is only 6-10,000 years old.

As a skeptic, I challenge Driskell’s notion of absolute truth, or even truth at all. Now, I am not some wishy-washy postmodernist who thinks everything is relative BUT I also don’t fall off the other end of the spectrum with demands for absolute truth.

What is truth? Everyone seems to have their own definition of the word. Personally, I steer away from the word truth. As a skeptic, I have come to see that my beliefs, my “truths” are based on observation and probability. I believe what I can see. I believe what sound reasonable and rational. My beliefs are always tentative. Granted, like with the Bible, I can say, with a large degree of certainty, that there is nothing more for me to learn from the Bible, it is always possible that I could be wrong. Likely? No. Possible? Sure. Since I do not possess absolute knowledge, unlike many Evangelical Christians, I can never speak in absolute terms.

The Evangelical Christian will jump on my admission above and say, “HA!! So you can’t say for certain that God does not exist?” Of course not. No thoughtful skeptic would say otherwise. Is it likely God exists? No. I suppose there is a .0000000000000001 percent chance that a God of some kind exists, but even then the chance is even less that the God is THE God of the Christian Bible.

Driskell wants everyone to know that he is not anti-science. This is akin the man at office party, after downing 10 drinks, who says with slurred speech, I am not an alcoholic. Sure……….

Driskell reframes the whole science question by saying there is such a thing as TRUE science. This is Evangispeak for “The Bible is truth and everything must be judged according to it, including science.” He is disingenuous when he says that “Christians do not believe science is bad.”  Some Christians don’t, but I am quite certain Christians like Driskell think science, secular science is bad. The key, for Driskell, is that “science and the Bible be rightly interpreted.”

In Driskell’s mind, good science glorifies God, is perfectly compatible with the Christian faith, and adds to the veracity of the Bible. Again, the Bible is the standard by which EVERYTHING is judged.

For you raised in Evangelical Christianity, this way of thinking is nothing new. You likely thought this way yourself for many years. It is hard to break free from this way of thinking.

I am going to shock some of you now. The key to breaking free is the Bible!

The Bible?

Yes, the Bible.

I agree with Driskell when he says, “The Bible contains the truth God wants us to know. It would be well worth the time spent to find out what it contains.” Well, I don’t agree with the part that says the Bible contains the truth God wants us to know but I do agree that it is “well work the time spent to find out what it contains.”

Reading the Bible for what is actually says without parsing everything through Evangelical orthodoxy goes a long way in freeing a person from the bondage of Evangelical Christianity.(and yes, I think Evangelicalism is intellectual, moral, and cultural bondage)  Asking hard questions and demanding answers is crucial. Pleas to have faith or trust God must fall on deaf ears. Appeals to ignorance will not suffice.

Once a person is free to read the Bible without Evangelical constraints, free to question at will, it is doubtful they will remain an Evangelical. They may come away with some sort of Christian belief system but it will certainly not be Evangelical. As Driskell well knows, once a person starts to say, Yea hath God said, they are on a slippery slope that leads to Bruce Gerencser hell.  

You Say You Speak For God

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Millions upon millions of voices all clamoring at the same time, all uttering the same thing.

God says…

The Bible (God) says…

God is leading me to say…

God is telling me to tell you…

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. right?

Get a Baptist and a Catholic in the same room and let them duke it out over One Baptism.

Father, Son, Holy Ghost and these three are one. Surely everyone agrees?

Baptism saves. It doesn’t save.

Communion is the Lord’s Supper is the Eucharist, is really body of Christ, kind of the real body of Christ or a memorial?

Pre, Mid, Pre-wrath, Post rapture and tribulation.

Pre, A, Post millennial reign of Christ.

Dispensationalism. Non-dispensationalism. Hyper-dispensationalism.

Calvinism.

Arminianism.

Pelagianism.

Cessationist. Non-cessationist.

The Old Testament is for today. No it is not.

The gospels are for today. No they are not.

New Perspective. Old Perspective.

Pauline or Peterine.

The OT law is still for today.

No it’s not.

Yes it is but only the Ten commandants.

No, only Nine commandments. (No rest for me) and maybe the verses on tithing. Got to pay my salary you know.

Only the words in red matter.

Only what Paul writes matters.

Eternal Security. Perseverance of the Saints.

Losing your salvation.

66 books in the Protestant Bible. Catholics, and Orthodox count differently but no matter they aren’t Christians.

So you say:

God says…

The Bible (God) says…

God is leading me to say…

God is telling me to tell you…

Pray tell…why should we believe you?

Can you even answer the most basic questions?

What is salvation? How is a person saved?

By Grace?

By faith?

By works?

By faith, plus works?

By faith, plus works, and staying true to the end?

I can choose or not choose?

I can’t choose?

God chooses me?

I choose God?

Baptism saves?

Baptism doesn’t save?

You argue endlessly among yourselves.

The Bible SAYS!

God SAYS!

Our Church SAYS!

The Pope SAYS!

The Pastor SAYS!

There is one TRUE Church and it is ours, hundreds and hundreds of denominations say.

With us and heaven is your home.

Against us you fry.

Your lack of unity is the indictment against you.

Your lack of a singular voice is clear to all who dare listen.

You should not then be shocked when you try to tell non- Christians that God says or the Bible says

that they

smile

and turn a deaf ear.

Oh wait, they are deaf because God made them that way.

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. (Luke 8:10)

It’s God’s fault.