Tag Archives: Inerrancy

How Inerrancy Turns Christians into Haters

This is a picture of a retired IFB pastor in the nursing home.

Evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the inspired (God breathed), inerrant Word of God. They believe that the text of the Christian Bible is without error and they are certain that every word in the Bible is the very words of God. (either spoken by him or inspired by him)

While many Evangelical pastors and professors don’t really believe the Bible is inerrant, they continue to preach the inerrancy myth from the pulpit and in their college classrooms. These Evangelicals, late at night, get out a flashlight, pull the covers over their head, and secretly read one of Bart Ehrman’s books. They will never tell anyone about this lest they lose their job.

When it comes to the people in the pew, I have never met an Evangelical Christian who didn’t believe every word in the Bible is true. They are certain that the leather-bound Bible they carry to church every Sunday is the very words of God.

Evangelical Christians are told from their youth up that the Bible can be understood by anyone, even a child. Why then are there so many theology books if the Bible is so simple it can be understood by a child?

The fact is, the Bible is anything BUT a simple book. It is a book that must be interpreted and this is where Evangelicals get themselves into trouble. They think, The Bible is God’s Word, it is so simple a child can understand it, I have read it, and I understand it, thus my interpretation of the Bible is exactly what God said.

This kind of thinking leads to arrogance. When a person is absolutely convinced they are absolutely right, they no longer have to consider competing ideas or interpretations.

This kind of thinking is at its worst in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. All Evangelicals are theological Fundamentalists. The doctrine of inerrancy requires the Evangelical to have a Fundamentalist view of the Bible. In the case of the IFB church movement, not only are they theological Fundamentalists but they are also social Fundamentalists.

Social Fundamentalists take their inspired, inerrant Bible, often the King James Version, and strictly apply it to every aspect of their lives. They believe that everything in their lives is governed by what the Bible says. This is why IFB churches have strict codes of conduct, often called church standards. Everything, from what clothes they should wear, to what they should listen to on the radio, is determined by their peculiar interpretation of the Bible.

IFB pastors are known for being hellfire and brimstone preachers. They scream and holler, step on toes, beat church members with the sin stick, all because they think they are divinely called by God to tell people exactly what God says in the Bible.

As a God-called man, no women need apply, the IFB pastor thinks he has a special relationship with God. God speaks to the IFB preacher and the IFB preacher then speaks to the people in the pew. Just like the Pope, the IFB pastor, stands between God and church member.

Though the IFB pastor will deny what I have written above, saying, WE BELIEVE IN THE PRIESTHOOD OF THE BELIEVER, the truth is they only believe in the priesthood of the believer when the believer’s interpretation of the Bible agrees with theirs.

In the IFB church, as it is in most Evangelical churches, diversity of belief is discouraged. In many churches it is forbidden. After all, if the Bible is inerrant then there can only be ONE correct interpretation of the Bible.

Eleven years ago, we saw Fundamentalism at work in the George Bush administration when they decided to wage war against Iraq. George Bush and his administration were certain their beliefs about Iraq, Saddam Hussein, and weapons of mass destruction, were infallibly right. And here we are a decade later, and hundreds of thousands of deaths later, trying to extricate ourselves from another failed war. Yet, to this day, George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld, refuse to admit they made any mistakes. They are certain that their beliefs were/are correct, and, in the case of George Bush, the Christian God was/is on our side.

Most IFB church members are not only theological and social Fundamentalists, they are also political Fundamentalists. They are certain their Bible is God’s words and that their interpretation is infallibly true. Since they apply the Bible to the minutest details of their lives, it should come as no surprise that they have exacting beliefs about politics.

I have never met an IFB pastor or church member who was not a Republican or a Libertarian. I am sure there are a few IFB church members who are Democrats, but they, like gay or bisexual IFB church members, are way in the back of the closet. IFB church members are told to vote their “conscience” but everyone knows that voting your conscience means voting exactly the way God the pastor tells you to vote. To vote differently means going against the man of God, the Word of God, and God himself, and no one want to do that. right?

Disobedience and rebellion are not permitted in IFB churches. Those who think for themselves or believe differently than the pastor, are told they are not right with God or that they are backslidden. They are told their “discerner” is broke and that they need to listen to their pastor.

Those who refuse to conform end up marginalized, disciplined, or asked to leave the church. IFB churches are notorious for turning over their memberships, and generic Evangelical churches are not much different. There is a constant stream of people going out the back door as new people come in the front. (with most new people coming from other churches)

Is it any wonder that this kind of thinking turns people into haters? Is it any wonder that people raised in this kind of environment lack the necessary skills to make sound, reasoned judgments about the world they live in?

Everything is, THUS SAITH THE LORD. Everything is black and white. Nuance or gray areas are called compromise and God HATES compromise.

It is this kind of thinking that breeds the nasty, hateful comments you read on this blog. It is what causes people to send me nasty, hateful emails. Rarely does a day or two go by that I don’t receive a nasty, hateful email from an Evangelical Christian.

Just today, the husband of Jeannie Williams, (see here and here) David Williams, an IFB pastor, took it upon himself to email me and tell me about some blog posts he had written about morality. I wrote him back and told him, in no uncertain terms, that I was not interested in reading anything he had written, he replied:

I did not attack you so if you don’t want to read truth, they that is your choice. The moral law is a law of choices. It is the law of love. The only way to truly love is to know God. If you don’t know Him you are immoral. No one that is immoral can point their finger at anyone else. That is all!

In a follow-up email he wrote:

Here are some points to consider. You may not like me, you may hate Jack Hyles but you have a duty to be moral as well as any other being in the universe. It is a law that applies to all. Moral law is not the command of God or a product of the will of God. It is a priori, something that every living person knows is just and right. It is the law of love.

To sum up what David Williams is saying…anyone who disagrees with his view of morality is immoral. Like Matt Nye, James Spiegel, and countless other Evangelicals who have written me, atheists are immoral.

Most decent, thinking people believe that Fred Phelps, the Phelps clan, and the Westboro Baptist Church, are arrogant, bigoted, nasty, hateful people. However, there is little difference between the beliefs of Fred Phelps and Matt Nye, James Spiegel, and David and Jeanie Williams.

While Matt Nye, James Spiegel, and David and Jeanie Williams put a better “face” on their beliefs and don’t go to the extremes that the Phelps’s do, their beliefs are pretty much the same. It is their belief that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God that leads them to the conclusions they come to.

The only only way to reach people like this is to attack their foundational belief that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God. If they can be brought to see that the Bible is not what they claim it is, there is hope for them.

Don’t count on it. Most people who believe in inerrancy keep this belief until they die. When you take a high road position like inerrancy it is hard to back up. To admit that the Bible is not inerrant is to admit you are wrong and Evangelicals rarely admit they were wrong. Those who do, do so on their way OUT the doors of the Evangelical church.

While I am not an evangelist for atheism, I do encourage people to leave Evangelicalism. Any religion that demands conformity and fidelity to a certain interpretation of a religious text is certain to harm people intellectually and emotionally. Any church or pastor who demands everyone think the same way and who considers doubts and questions to be a challenge to their authority or a work of Satan are not places where a personal can intellectually and emotionally thrive.

Liberals, Evangelicals and the Bible

30 Replies

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have been following a discussion about creationism on James McGrath’s blog. The discussion has been quite entertaining. As an atheist who thinks the Bible is an errant, fallible book made up mostly of mythical stories, I find the arguments between Evangelical Christians and Liberal Christians about the nature of the Bible better than Saturday Night Live.

The recent discussion on McGrath’s blog is primarily between a young earth creationist named Tim, (yes THAT Tim who commented on this blog a few weeks ago and here too) and McGrath and several other like-minded commenters.

While the discussion is primarily about science, there are a few comments about the Bible, salvation, and who owns the “real” Christian interpretation of the Bible. McGrath, a liberal Christian, believes his interpretive tradition is the historic tradition of Christianity. Tim, however, believes his literalistic interpretation of the Bible is the historic position of Christianity.

Added to the entertainment is Tim insisting on knowing the spiritual credentials of McGrath and other commenters. Tim asked McGrath:

Have you ever come to know Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord?
Do you know Him and love Him today?
Do you believe what He says?

Standard Evangelical stuff. McGrath did not answer Tim directly, pointed to other things he has written on his blog, and refused to give Tim what he wanted; a clear, concise, testimony of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Why is this important to Tim? Simple. Tim states:

One’s relationship with Jesus Christ has EVERYTHING to do with our discussion. One may be highly educated, yet not wise. For it is the fear of the LORD that is the beginning of wisdom.

According to Tim’s interpretation of the Bible, true wisdom, knowledge, and understanding comes from having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. In Tim’s mind. believing in evolution is a denial of the Word of God, and a denial of God himself.

The Evangelical believes the Bible as it is written. For the most part they are literalistic in their reading of the text. This is why almost half of Americans believe God created the world, as is, in the last ten thousand years. It is, after all, what the Bible says.

Evolutionary biology, geology,physics, astronomy, and archeology tell a very different story. We live in a universe that is billions of years old, a world where humans evolved over millions of years. It is clear that modern science and creationism are incompatible and no matter how one tries, it is impossible to reconcile the two.

Liberal Christians like McGrath allow modern science to shape their understanding of the Bible. When science conflicts with the Bible, science wins. The Evangelical, on the other hand, never lets science have the final say. When science conflicts with the Bible, the Bible wins.

Does this mean the liberal Christian has the upper hand? Not necessarily. While the Evangelical is way too literal in his reading and interpretation of the Bible, the liberal Christian is far too willing to abandon anything that doesn’t fit their modern, scientific understanding of the world.

So, the Evangelical says, The Bible says_________________________ and the liberal Christian replies, that is poetry, allegory, or meant for a different culture or time. Rarely does a liberal Christian explain how they come to their conclusions on a particular text. It seems they just explain away anything that doesn’t “fit.”

Here’s the problem I have with how liberal Christians read and interpret the Bible. If Genesis is poetry or allegory why not treat the story of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus the same way? While modern science certainly discredits the Evangelical belief about Genesis, can we not say the same thing about the liberal Christian’s belief about who and what Jesus Christ was?

At the end of the day, every Christian is a literalist. The question is, to what degree are they a literalist. The Evangelical views most of the Bible from a literalistic viewpoint, the liberal Christian only views small parts of the Bible as literal.

The liberal Christian is quite willing to jettison most everything in the Bible except their belief in Jesus. Why is the story of Jesus special?

The liberal Christian will argue that modern science clearly shows that creationism is false. Fine, I agree. But, modern science also shows us that virgins don’t get pregnant, the miracles ascribed to Jesus didn’t happen, and dead people don’t get back out of the grave. Why does the liberal Christian willingly use science to discard creationism to the ancient relic dustbin but not Jesus himself? Maybe Jesus was just an allegory or a metaphor? (and I am not a mythicist. I think Jesus was a real person who lived and died in Palestine during the early days of the first century.)

In most cases, I prefer talking about the Bible and theology with the Evangelical. With the liberal Christian, discussing the Bible with them is often like nailing Jell-O to the wall. They are a constantly moving target, ever-changing depending on changes in their understanding of the world.

Let me be clear, I think Evangelicalism is harmful mentally and emotionally. I think it teaches people a naïve way of looking at the world than often has tragic consequences. (especially when their beliefs enter the political arena)

In every way, the liberal Christian way of thinking is better for our world. I just wish they would go one step farther, and admit what many of us agnostics and atheist suspect is true; that liberal Christians are atheists/agnostics who like to go to church.

For Further Investigation

Tim’s Blog
James McGrath’s blog

Charles Spurgeon’s View of the Bible

7 Replies

Charles Spurgeon was a 19th century Baptist pastor in London, England. He pastored, at that time, the largest Protestant church in the world and is revered today by Baptists everywhere. (He was a five point Calvinist but did not believe in double predestination) Spurgeon was an alcohol drinking, cigar smoking, grossly overweight man, prone to bouts of severe depression.

The following quote shows that the Evangelical belief about the Bible predates the modern Evangelical era. According to Charles Spurgeon, the Bible was written by God himself:

Stand over this volume [the Bible], and admire its authority. This is no common book. It is not the sayings of the sages of Greece; here are not the utterances of philosophers of past ages. If these words were written by a man, we might reject them; but O let me think the solemn thought, that this book is God’s handwriting– that these words are God’s! Let me look at its date; it is dated from the hills of heaven. Let me look at its letters; they flash glory on my eye. Let me read the chapters; they are big with meaning and mysteries unknown. Let me turn over the prophecies; they are pregnant with unthought- of wonders. Oh, book of books! And wast thou written by my God? Then will I bow before thee. Thou book of vast authority! thou art a proclamation from the Emperor of Heaven; far be it from me to exercise my reason in contradicting thee. Reason, thy place is to stand and find out what this volume means, not to tell what this book ought to say.

Come thou, my reason, my intellect, sit thou down and listen, for these words are the words of God. I do not know how to enlarge on this thought. Oh! if you could ever remember that this Bible was actually and really written by God. Oh! if ye had been let into the secret chambers of heaven, if ye had beheld God grasping his pen and writing down these letters– then surely ye would respect them; but they are just as much God’s handwriting as if you had seen God write them. This Bible is a book of authority; it is an authorized book, for God has written it. Oh! tremble, lest any of you despise it; mark its authority, for it is the Word of God.

Evangelicals and Their Bible

2 Replies

The Bible is the foundation of Christianity. Without the Bible, Christianity would not exist. When I make statements like this, some Christians remind me that Christianity started with Jesus and his disciples, not the Bible.

Certainly Christianity started with Jesus and his disciples, but we must not forget they had a foundational religious text, the Old Testament. All of the Abrahamic religions have foundational religious texts. While an argument can be made for there being multiple Christianities in the Bible, be it the Jesus sect or the Paul sect, all of them find their roots in the soil of the Bible. I can not imagine any way Christianity exists apart from the Bible.

There is an increasing number of people who call themselves Christians that want to hang on to Jesus but reject the teachings of the Bible. Some reject the parts of the Bible that offend their moral sense, others reject the Bible completely, I am at a loss to understand how it is possible to believe in Jesus and not accept the Bible, to some degree or another, as a divine, authoritative text.

While I think people are free to believe whatever they want to believe, I question whether a Christianity without the Bible is Christianity at all. At best, they have a spiritualized Jesus but, again, what kind of Jesus is this without the Bible?

Evangelical Christianity is a text-based religion. The sixty-six books that make up the Christian Bible is the foundation of Evangelical Christianity. Remove this foundation and the Evangelical house comes crashing down.

When Evangelicals deconvert it is almost always due to a loss of belief in what is claimed for the Bible. As I have said many times, my deconversion came about because I came to see that the Bible was not what Christianity claimed it was.

What claims do Evangelicals make for the Bible?

Inspired

All Evangelicals believe the Bible is inspired by God. 2 Timothy 3:16 says:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:20-21 says:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The phrase, given by inspiration of God , is one Greek word, theopneustos (heh-op’-nyoo-stos). The word inspiration means, God breathed. The Evangelical believes the Bible was breathed out, given life by Jehovah. Therefore, the Bible is considered a supernatural book spoken forth from the very mouth of God. It is a book unlike any other book ever written. It is the only book written by God himself.

Evangelicals hold varying opinions to “exactly” what is inspired by God. Some Evangelicals believe only the original manuscripts of the various books of the Bible are inspired. However, the original manuscripts no longer exist. The extant manuscripts are copies of copies of copies of the original manuscripts, or so the theory goes since there are NO originals to compare the copies to.

When Evangelicals read the Old Testament they assume they are reading a text that dates back to the beginning of the human race, six thousand years ago. Little do they know that the Old Testament text is not as old as they think. As you can see from the Wikipedia table below, the extant Old Testament manuscripts are dated thousands of years after God supposedly created Adam and Eve.

The New Testament fares no better. As Wikipedia makes clear, most of the extant manuscripts of the New Testament were written a thousand years after the death of Jesus. :

Parts of the New Testament have been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work, having over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin manuscripts and 9,300 manuscripts in various other ancient languages including Syriac, Slavic, Gothic, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian. The dates of these manuscripts range from c. 125 (the John Ryland’s manuscript, P⁵²; oldest copy of John fragments) to the introduction of printing in Germany in the 15th century. The vast majority of these manuscripts date after the 10th century. Although there are more manuscripts that preserve the New Testament than there are for any other ancient writing, the exact form of the text preserved in these later, numerous manuscripts may not be identical to the form of the text as it existed in antiquity. Textual scholar Bart Ehrman writes: “It is true, of course, that the New Testament is abundantly attested in the manuscripts produced through the ages, but most of these manuscripts are many centuries removed from the originals, and none of them perfectly accurate. They all contain mistakes – altogether many thousands of mistakes. It is not an easy task to reconstruct the original words of the New Testament….”

No two manuscripts are the same. It is estimated that there are over 400,000 variations among the manuscripts. There are more variations than there are words in the New Testament.

When Paul wrote to Timothy, all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, what Scripture did he have in mind? It couldn’t have been the New Testament because it didn’t yet exist. Paul was clearly speaking of the Old Testament when he wrote of a God inspired text. While 2 Timothy 3:16 is used as a proof text for the entire sixty-six books of the Bible being inspired by God, such a claim can not be sustained if the verse is understood in its historical context.

Preserved

Many Evangelicals attempt to address the above mentioned problems with inspiration by saying that God has supernaturally preserved the Bible through the centuries. This is a faith claim since there is no evidence that God preserved the text of the Bible. In fact, based on the extant manuscripts and the plethora of Bible translations, it could be argued that God deliberately tried to hide or obfuscate his inspired words.

On the extreme end of the Evangelical spectrum are Christians who believe a particular translation of the Bible is inspired, having been preserved by God down through the centuries.

Answers in Genesis states:

One of the most amazing testimonies to Scripture’s truth is its preservation over thousands of years, despite sometimes intense efforts to destroy it.

Jesus Christ made an amazing prophesy about this preservation of His Word: “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away” (Mark 13:31; also Matthew 24:35). He believed that God’s Word is indestructible (“And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle [small mark in Hebrew lettering] of the law to fail” Luke 16:17).

Moreover, Jesus believed His words would spread around the world: “This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come” (Matthew 24:14); “the gospel must first be preached to all the nations” (Mark 13:10). And that is what we find today. God’s Word has been preserved.

The discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls in 1947 confirmed that we still have the same Old Testament as they did at Jesus’s day. The survival of thousands of New Testament manuscripts confirms that the New Testament writings were also providentially preserved. The question among textual scholars is not whether some words are missing, but which variant readings, in a few minor cases, are the correct ones…

…The Bible has not only been preserved, but translated into over two thousand languages (both ancient and modern). Many of the earliest surviving manuscripts include translations, such as Syriac versions, showing that God’s Word was spreading from the very beginning, and the words of its message have been preserved in many languages.

John Burgeon, a 19th century defender of the Bible wrote:

If you and I believe that the original writings of the Scriptures were verbally inspired by God, then of necessity they must have been providentially preserved through the ages.

Jack Moorman, a British defender of the King James Bible wrote that believing in the preservation of the Bible requires faith. Moorman states:

Like all other Bible truths, the Scripture’s teaching on its own preservation is to be in the first instance accepted by faith. Edward F. Hills in his outstanding book, The King James Version Defended calls it “the logic of faith.” The facts and evidence of such preservation will then follow.

What Moorman seems to be saying is this, if you look at the inspiration and preservation of the Bible solely on rational grounds, it will not make sense, but if you have FAITH it all makes sense.

In other words, just take our word for it.

Inerrant

Most Evangelical church members believe the Bible translation they read from and their pastor preaches from is without error. Pastors are quite dishonest when they do not tell church members that this is not true.

Outside of pastors who are King James Only, most Evangelicals pastors believe the original manuscripts were inerrant and the translations we now have are faithful and reliable but not inerrant.

Many Evangelical pastors will make a claim of partial inerrancy. They believe, when it comes to salvation and the core doctrines of the Christian faith, the translations now in use are indeed inerrant. Any errors found in the Bible do not affect the core teachings of the Bible, so the errors are not a concern to them.

Of course, Evangelical pastors have no way of knowing this. How can they know what is inerrant and what is not not? This is a faith claim that usually comes down to inerrancy being applied to whatever part of the Biblical text the pastor thinks is important.

Is it the pastor or the professor’s place to decide what is important and not important in the Bible? If the Scripture is God-breathed, is it not the height of arrogance for a pastor or professor to suggest that some parts of the Bible are less inspired, less important? If God is perfect in all his ways, it stands to reason, that a perfect God inspired a perfect text and that this perfect text would say exactly what God meant it to say.

I can think of no way to maintain the integrity of the Evangelical belief about the Bible and, at the same time, say a verse or passage of Scripture is errant, fallible, mistaken, or not important. Is this not tantamount to what the Serpent said to Eve in the Garden of Eden, Yea hath God said. (Genesis 3)

The authority for everything the Evangelical believes and practices rests on the notion that the Bible is the inspired, preserved, and inerrant Word of God. Without this belief, the entire Evangelical house comes crashing down.

Why I Recommend Bart Ehrman to Evangelical Christians

18 Replies

Bart Ehrman’s Best Selling Books

I have often been accused of being a Bart Ehrman fan boy and that this clouds my judgment of what Ehrman writes. Do I appreciate the books that Ehrman writes? Sure. But fan boy? Not really. I don’t know Ehrman personally, so there’s really no basis for the fan boy claim any more than for being a Get Fuzzy fan boy because I have read all Darby Conley’s comics. If reading everything an author writes makes one a fan boy, I am a fan boy of a number of authors.

Here is what I know about Bart Ehrman’s books:

They are written in a such a way to appeal to the average reader. A person does not need training in Hebrew and Greek to understand what Ehrman is talking about.
They are an excellent presentation of the facts about the text and history of the Christian Bible.

Yes, Ehrman can overplay his hand at times, and I don’t necessarily agree with everything he writes. However, Ehrman does a good job of detailing the history of the text and the various problems the text has. These things are widely known and accepted by most Bible scholars, even Evangelical ones.

The beef people have with Ehrman is not over the evidence he presents. Most every Bible scholar agrees with the evidence. It is Ehrman’s conclusions that some Christians object to. (and now that he is a declared agnostic, they object to his godlessness)

For whatever reason, The Way Forward attracts Christians who believe the Bible is the inerrant and inspired Word of God. They are certain that the text of the Bible is exactly what God meant it to be, perfect and without error.

Some Christians moderate their view a bit, realizing that saying a particular translation of the Bible is inerrant makes one look ill-informed, so they move the inerrancy line to the manuscripts. They will say, I believe the original manuscripts were inerrant. Of course, the original manuscripts no longer exist, so there is NO way we can ever possibly know what they said.

Some Christians moderate their view further and say, I believe the totality of extant manuscripts provide us with enough data to put together an inerrant Bible. Never mind that the extant manuscripts differ with one another in thousands of places. How can we ever know which manuscript is the right one?

Some Christians will use words like a faithful translation or a reliable translation to describe their view of the Bible. When pressed, they will usually defend one the above mentioned views of the Bible.

Go to any Evangelical church this Sunday. Stand outside the church and ask each member as they leave the church:

Do you believe that every word in the Bible is factual and true and do you believe the Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God?

I guarantee you that most church members will say YES!!

If their pastor has any training outside of a Fundamentalist Bible college, he knows what his parishioners believe about the Bible is not true. He knows there are errors, mistakes, and internal contradictions. He knows there are “problem texts.”

He will likely never admit these things to his congregation (the sin of omission) for fear of causing a problem in the church or causing people to “doubt” God. Pastors know they must maintain the status quo, even though behind the scenes, in the privacy of his study, he is increasingly aware that the text of the Bible has major problems. (if one wants to maintain the belief the Bible is inerrant and inspired)

Back in 2005, I candidated at a Southern Baptist church in Weston, West Virginia. The church really wanted me to come be their pastor and I was interested in coming. (Polly was NOT interested in going to Weston)

The church loved my preaching, loved my vision for reaching greater Weston for Christ, but there was one sticking point. I preached from the ESV (English Standard Version) of the Bible and since there were a few King James Only families in the church, if I was going to be their new pastor I would have to preach only from the King James Version. I told them I couldn’t do that and I didn’t become their pastor. (and Polly said Amen!)

At the pew level, inerrancy is a live and well.

And this is why Bart Ehrman’s books are so important and why I recommend them to most everyone. His books are not stuffy scholarly tomes that only a scribe could love. He writes in a way that the average blue-collar worker with a high school education can understand what he is writing about. (not that more educated people won’t profit from his books, they will)

When well-meaning Christians come to this blog and start spouting off about what their inerrant, inspired Bible says, I always ask them, have you read any of Bart Ehrman’s books? So far, exactly 0% of such people have read Bart Ehrman. (or any other non-Evangelical scholar for that matter)

I know if they have not read Bart Ehrman or someone like him, it is a colossal waste of time to have a discussion with them about the text of the Bible. Until they are willing to venture outside of the inerrancy box there is no hope of having a meaningful discussion about what the Bible does or doesn’t say.

Some Christian may see my reticence to engage them on this as fear of being showed up or proved wrong. This is not the case. I am not going to spend time typing answer after answer to questions or challenges when all that is needed is for someone to read a 300 page book.

Once they have read the book (s) THEN we can talk, but not until then.

Here is a list of Bart Ehrman’s books that I think every Evangelical Christian should read:

Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don’t Know About Them)

Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew

God’s Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question–Why We Suffer

(you can buy these books for less than 50.00 total at Amazon.com)

For Further Investigation:

Bart Ehrman Blog

Larry Tonjes Explains Everything

Life in the Fundamentalist Bubble

3 Replies

cartoon by the Naked Pastor

An anonymous commenter left the following comment on the Galatians 4 blog:

if the Bible is not truth; the Word of God – then NO ONE can be saved. If we do not believe the Bible, we cannot be saved.

The post this comment was left on was a post titled, The IFB Pastor Turned Atheist: Those Who Fall Away. This post is about my defection from Christianity. The author of the blog post agrees with the anonymous commenter’s view that if we do not believe the Bible we cannot be saved.

Here’s the problem with this view. First, it makes salvation dependent on reading the right words and believing the right things.

Second, the first century Christian church had no Bible. They had the Old Testament, a text that makes no mention of Christian salvation, and oral traditions.

Third, the gospels were not written until decades after Jesus Christ died and resurrected from the dead. The writings of Paul were written first and they are quite sparse when it comes to Jesus and clearly articulating the Christian gospel. (Paul’s writings need the gospels for the Christian/Pauline gospel to make sense)

Fourth, the printing press was invented over 1500 years AFTER the death and resurrection of Jesus from the dead. What Bible did people read before the invention of the printing press?

Fifth, illiteracy and the cost of a printed Bible meant that most Christians did not own a copy of the Bible. They relied on others to read to them the Bible or to pass on the stories of Christianity orally.

Sixth, it took centuries for the canon of the Christian Bible to be completed. Prior to this, Christians had “incomplete” Bibles, often only reading or hearing a few books of the Bible.

The anonymous commenters does what a lot of Christians do…he takes how things are now and reads it back into Church history. You know…if the Oxford, Calf-Skinned KJV Scofield Bible was good enough for the Apostle Paul it is good enough for me.

The truth is many Christians have little knowledge of the long, complex, and contradictory history of the Bible and the Christian Church. This lack of historical knowledge allows them to make statements like the anonymous commenter made on the Galatians 4 blog.

The bigger problem is the way fundamentalists read the Bible. When they read the phrase “word of God” they assume it means “the Bible.” This, however, is not the case. Most of the instances in the Bible where we find the phrase “word of God” refers to spoken words or to Jesus Christ himself.

The phrase “word of God” appears 49 times in the Bible. As you can easily see, the phrase has several different meanings.

1Samuel 9:27 And as they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, Bid the servant pass on before us, (and he passed on,) but stand thou still a while, that I may show thee the word of God.
1Kings 12:22 But the word of God came unto Shemaiah the man of God, saying,
1Chronicles17:3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying,
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luke 5:1 And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret,
Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Acts 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
Acts 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Acts 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
Acts 12:24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.
Acts 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
Acts 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
Acts 13:44 And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Acts 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.
Acts 18:11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Acts 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
1Corinthians14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
2Corithians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
2Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
1Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
2Timothy 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
2Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
1John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Revelation 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Revelation19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The word Scripture appears 32 times in the Bible. Most of the time the word Scripture refers to the Old Testament, a text that is devoid of any mention of the Christian gospel.

The Bible states in John 1:1-2 that Jesus was the Word:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. (the rest of John 1 makes it clear that the Word John 1:1-2 is speaking of is Jesus)

With this thought, that Jesus is the Word, in mind, let’s look at Hebrews 4:12-14:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Raise your hand if you have heard Hebrews 4:12-13 quoted in reference to the Bible, the Word of God? Anyone raised in a Baptist church has heard this countless times. However…

With the thought that Jesus is the Word in mind…look closely at Hebrews 4:12-14. Is the word of God here the Bible or Jesus? Notice the male pronoun in the phrase manifest in HIS sight?

Verse 14 makes the “who” of the text very clear when it says, “Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God…”

The whole point of this exercise it to show that it is important to NOT read preconceived ideas and beliefs into the text. Pastors breed ignorance when they quote verses to “prove” a point rather than actually conveying to the congregation what the text actually says.

If The Bible is God’s Word

15 Replies

Guest post by Exrelayman

If the Bible were God’s word:

1. It would be perfectly engrossing. You would love reading it.

2. It would be perfectly clear. There would not be any disagreement anywhere about the meaning of any verse or passage.

3. It would be perfectly persuasive. People of any other faith would convert immediately upon reading this clear and persuasive message.

4. It would perfectly distributed to all the cultures of the world simultaneously, in their own language.

5. It would be perfectly indestructible. Neither years nor flood nor flame could mar or destroy it.

6. It would be perfectly original and accurate in all that it says.

In brief, it would be a perfect revelation proceeding from a perfect God.

And what do we observe in the real world:

1a. Very hard to force yourself to slog through it. Most who profess Christianity don’t struggle through all the begats and directions for making temple garments. Very inferior to myriads of mere human novelists.

2a. Earnest disagreement about what it actually says has led to thousands of differing denominations. Not so clear then.

3a. It needs a bit of help. Pastors must spend Sundays being persuasive. Persuasive hymns and apologetics are needed. Heaven and hell must be dangled as carrot and stick to evince coercion through hope and fear rather than clear evidential persuasion.

4a. Given at one part of the world, the gospels especially through unknown biased writers at unknown places and times.

5a. As susceptible to decay and destruction as any other book.

6a. Sadly imitative, many other dying and resurrecting savior gods from surrounding cultures preceded the Christ story. The Old Testament stories largely derive from antecedent cultures also. Flatly in conflict with what science has discovered about the age of the Earth and the evolution of life upon it. Flatly contradictory with its own self in numerous places.

At each expectation of what the revelation of a perfect and powerful God would be like, the Bible fails. Now these expectations are admittedly subjective, so that each one of them might be arguable. But cumulatively they become, at least as I see it, irresistable. Thus the verdict that it is not a divine document, but is shown by its own nature to be the product of ignorant and superstitious men writing in ignorant and superstitious times.

Is the Bible the Basis for Truth

7 Replies

Robert Driskell, at Creation Conversations thinks so:

People understand that the truth matters. We base our decisions and actions on what we perceive to be true. For instance, if someone is about to take medicine, they count on the label to be true so that they do not ingest anything harmful. They want the truth about whether or not any cars are coming when they are about to walk across the street. The Truth concerning our souls, and its eternal destiny, is incredibly important and merits serious investigation.
Christians consider the Bible to be the Word of God. As such, the importance of accepting the historicity of the Bible cannot be overstated. If Jesus is who he says he is, then we should heed his words. If he is not who he says he is, then there is no basis for Christianity at all. Jesus said that He is the Way to God, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6 ESV).
Jesus commissioned believers to spread God’s Word (Matthew 28:19-20) and in the book of Jude we read that we are to, “…contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints” (Jude 3 NASB). Christians share their faith because they love people with the love of Christ, they know what it is like to be forgiven of our sins, and they want to see everyone enjoy a close personal relationship with God. It is not a question of whether “ours is better or yours is better” but “what is the Truth?”
The Bible tells us that we are to share the Truth of God with anyone who will listen. Many unbelievers use the misdeeds of some calling themselves Christians to dismiss the veracity of the biblical record. It is true that some Christians, and many pretending to be Christians, have behaved in ways that did not honor God. However, these actions were carried out contrary to the will of God, not in accordance with the way He wants us to behave.
There are also those who dismiss the truth of the Bible because they believe science has proven it untrustworthy. They believe that science and the biblical record are at odds with one another and that a person can accept one or the other, but not both. This is simply not true. Christians do not believe that science is bad. Rather, when properly interpreted, science and the Bible complement each other.
However, when science hypothesizes as to how we may or may not have begun our existence, they have exited the realm of science and entered the realm of philosophy. True science, the science that seeks and finds cures for diseases, etc. is a wonderful gift from God. It should glorify Him in its endeavors. When science has this outcome, it is perfectly compatible with the Christian faith and adds to the veracity of the Bible.
The Bible contains the truth God wants us to know. It would be well worth the time spent to find out what it contains.

Driskell shows in this post why it is almost impossible to have a rational discussion with an Evangelical Christian. They operate from the presupposition that the Christian Bible is truth, absolute truth, nothing but the truth, so help them the Christian God.

God has spoken truth to humanity and that truth is recorded in the Bible. While I have no doubt that Driskell would agree that creation and conscience also show us truth, their truth-i-ness must conform to what the Bible says. So when scientists look at the natural world and come to a different conclusion than what is recorded in the Bible, the scientists are wrong. The Bible trumps everything.

The Evangelical Christian is not seeking for truth wherever it may be found. They believe they already have truth and their objective is to conform the natural world they live in to that truth. Their life is not one of a journey but of a destination. Rather than following the path wherever it leads, they set out on a path predetermined by what they read in the Bible. Any “truth” that does not conform to the Bible is considered false. That’s why we have Evangelical Christians who believe the earth is only 6-10,000 years old.

As a skeptic, I challenge Driskell’s notion of absolute truth, or even truth at all. Now, I am not some wishy-washy postmodernist who thinks everything is relative BUT I also don’t fall off the other end of the spectrum with demands for absolute truth.

What is truth? Everyone seems to have their own definition of the word. Personally, I steer away from the word truth. As a skeptic, I have come to see that my beliefs, my “truths” are based on observation and probability. I believe what I can see. I believe what sound reasonable and rational. My beliefs are always tentative. Granted, like with the Bible, I can say, with a large degree of certainty, that there is nothing more for me to learn from the Bible, it is always possible that I could be wrong. Likely? No. Possible? Sure. Since I do not possess absolute knowledge, unlike many Evangelical Christians, I can never speak in absolute terms.

The Evangelical Christian will jump on my admission above and say, “HA!! So you can’t say for certain that God does not exist?” Of course not. No thoughtful skeptic would say otherwise. Is it likely God exists? No. I suppose there is a .0000000000000001 percent chance that a God of some kind exists, but even then the chance is even less that the God is THE God of the Christian Bible.

Driskell wants everyone to know that he is not anti-science. This is akin the man at office party, after downing 10 drinks, who says with slurred speech, I am not an alcoholic. Sure……….

Driskell reframes the whole science question by saying there is such a thing as TRUE science. This is Evangispeak for “The Bible is truth and everything must be judged according to it, including science.” He is disingenuous when he says that “Christians do not believe science is bad.” Some Christians don’t, but I am quite certain Christians like Driskell think science, secular science is bad. The key, for Driskell, is that “science and the Bible be rightly interpreted.”

In Driskell’s mind, good science glorifies God, is perfectly compatible with the Christian faith, and adds to the veracity of the Bible. Again, the Bible is the standard by which EVERYTHING is judged.

For you raised in Evangelical Christianity, this way of thinking is nothing new. You likely thought this way yourself for many years. It is hard to break free from this way of thinking.

I am going to shock some of you now. The key to breaking free is the Bible!

The Bible?

Yes, the Bible.

I agree with Driskell when he says, “The Bible contains the truth God wants us to know. It would be well worth the time spent to find out what it contains.” Well, I don’t agree with the part that says the Bible contains the truth God wants us to know but I do agree that it is “well work the time spent to find out what it contains.”

Reading the Bible for what is actually says without parsing everything through Evangelical orthodoxy goes a long way in freeing a person from the bondage of Evangelical Christianity.(and yes, I think Evangelicalism is intellectual, moral, and cultural bondage) Asking hard questions and demanding answers is crucial. Pleas to have faith or trust God must fall on deaf ears. Appeals to ignorance will not suffice.

Once a person is free to read the Bible without Evangelical constraints, free to question at will, it is doubtful they will remain an Evangelical. They may come away with some sort of Christian belief system but it will certainly not be Evangelical. As Driskell well knows, once a person starts to say, Yea hath God said, they are on a slippery slope that leads to Bruce Gerencser hell.

Liberals and the Bible

62 Replies

I understand where Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians are coming from when it comes to their belief about the Bible. It is liberal Christians I have a hard time understanding. While I certainly wish every Evangelical would become a liberal, that doesn’t mean I think the liberal Christian belief system is rational and logical. In fact, I find liberal beliefs quite confusing and often contradictory. As I have often said, liberal religious beliefs are like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall.

Every Christian sect believes that Jesus Christ is God. Every Christian sect believes that Jesus became a human, died on the cross, and rose again from the dead three days later. Every Christian sect believes that Jesus, while on earth, was God in the human flesh. He came to earth to become the atonement for humankind’s sin. He was buried and rose again from the dead three days later securing life everlasting for all who will follow him. Every Christian sect believes that Jesus ascended to heaven and some day will return to earth again to usher in his eternal kingdom.

Most sects would also say they believe Jesus was born of a virgin, healed the sick, and raised the dead. The bottom line is this…….Jesus was a supernatural being who came to earth to do a supernatural work. From start to finish, Jesus’s life was anything but ordinary human.

Where do we find the story the Jesus? The Bible. This story is found nowhere else. Surely we all would agree that Jesus Christ is the alpha and omega of the Christian religion and all that every Christian sect knows about Jesus comes from the Bible. Without the Bible there would be no discussion going on about the historicity of Jesus.

On what basis do Christian sects believe what the Bible says about Jesus? Is the Bible just another work of literature? That’s what liberal Christians would have us believe. The Bible is just another work of literature and should be treated like any other text from antiquity.

If this is so then why have doctrinal statements or for that matter have churches at all? If the Bible is just an old book then why invest so much time and money in believing and living out its story? Quite frankly Harry Potter would be a much more interesting God and I suspect children would LOVE going to the First Church of Harry.

At this point……liberals start stammering and steaming….

You see, the Bible really is MORE than just another work of literature. Every Christian sect believes that the Bible is revelatory, that God, through the text of the Bible speaks to humanity. We can fuss and fight over words like inspiration, inerrancy, and infallibility but the fact remains ALL Christians give the Bible weight and authority that they give no other text. Without an authoritative text there is no Jesus and without Jesus there is no such thing as Christianity.

We can argue endlessly about the various critical methods and hermeneutics but sooner or later every Christian must say, THIS I BELIEVE. And when they do this they are saying, I believe the Bible, to some degree or another, to be true/factual/correct.

Liberals and Evangelicals alike continue to shed beliefs like lovers and their clothes on a hot, steamy summer night. Science continues to challenge and attack Christian beliefs and Christians back up and retrench. The Christian Church has gone from a doctrinal sumo wrestler to a wasting away anorexic model. Doctrine after doctrine is abandoned or reinterpreted and it seems only Jesus is safe from discard. And even with Jesus, we now have liberals who are quite willing to jettison the virgin birth, Jesus’s bodily resurrection from the dead, and his bodily ascension back to heaven. At the rate they are going the only thing left will be Jesus’s image on a piece of toast.

Atheism is not Christianity’s biggest problem. Atheism will not bring the Christian house down. Christians will do that all on their own. When people realize that NOTHING matters they will conclude that NOTHING matters and they will stop attending church and stop giving their money. The beast will die a slow, agonizing death, a death brought on by their unwillingness to have beliefs that matter.

Currently, there is a battle raging over the historicity of Jesus. Christianity finds a strange champion in Bart Ehrman. He has done much to hasten the death of Christianity, yet here he is, defending their man. I suspect any day now there will be a liberal theologian or pastor somewhere that will say, “Well, we don’t really need to believe Jesus was real to be a Christian.” Game over.

As an atheist, I think Christianity is false. I reject any, and all, claims made by the various Christian sects. I don’t think Jesus was anything that the Bible says he was. While I believe Jesus the man was a real historical figure, I reject any supernatural claim made for Jesus. At best, the Bible is an admixture of fact and error and it is almost impossible to tell one from the other. That said, I have great respect for people who have beliefs they are willing to stand up for and defend. There is something about a person’s willingness to stand up for their beliefs no matter the cost….I admire such boldness, such conviction.

I know someone will be sure to suggest that I still think like a fundamentalist. Believe what you will. While I am most certainly not a fundamentalist, I do admire people who have courage and conviction. I respect people who believe something enough that they are willing to give their lives to it.

Share this:

Share this:

Share this:

Share this:

Share this:

Share this:

Share this:

Share this:

Share this:

Share this: