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Bruce
My Catholic friend will be – MCF
Her Catholic friend will be – HCF
I’ll be myself. Albeit a really tired rendition of me.
So, MCF shared with me her concerns for HCF and what she believes and how that plays out in her everyday life. MCF considers herself to be a liberal/progressive. Her faith is very meaningful to her. MCF considers HCF (also very dedicated to her belief) to be uninformed and prone to mostly black and white thinking. Dogmatic. The entire conversation as I listen reminds me of my Christian years. Yes, we were to evangelize the lost. Those without Christ. But . . . for the most part we seemed overly preoccupied with one another, our fellow Christians. Seems to me we could have seen more added to the kingdom if we stopped the back and forth about one another. Hindsight. Besides I’m out of the kingdom now.
As MCF despaired over HCF and her rather primitive belief ways my heart felt heavy. Ironically I am in a position to defend HCF. Though never Catholic I did with sincerity and a well-intentioned heart throw myself into what ended up being a very narrow, uninformed way of believing. I yearned for black and white. I wanted dogma. In other words, “been there done that.” I understood and understand how and why HCF believes the way she does.
After listening at length I decide to enter the fray by saying that I actually identify with HCF having once believed or tried to believe just like her. You could hear a pin drop. I continued. I even shared other stories of my attempts to believe and how I wrestled with things like Christmas trees and Santa and Halloween and Satan. I shared that if during my fundamentalist (commonly referred to as conservative evangelical back in my day) years one of my children had left the faith and been married outside of the church I would have been shattered too. I could and do understand HCF’s grief. Her world has been turned upside down
I shared many details of my former way of believing and I wasn’t really sure how it was coming across. At one point MCF said, “Yes but you got out of it. How?”..
…I told her that there was always two Zoe’s. One was shattered and broken and didn’t have a sure foundation. She needed firmer ground. She was drawn to the need for absolutes and who better to provide them then God. The other Zoe was the part of me that asked questions and she never stopped asking. In the end, the Zoe that asked all the questions, got me out. In other words, I saved myself….
…In the end I think MCF was stunned to hear how it is I once believed. The thing is she sees the way she believes in a much more healthy way than HCF and me. She can’t see the forest for the trees. She doesn’t see that she still believes many of the things HCF believes and many of the things I use to believe. It’s ironic to me to hear her explain how the Catholic church is evolving somewhat and how many Catholics and even the Pope leave’s room for non-Catholics in heaven. And I thought to myself, ‘Oh that makes me feel better.’
Not to mention that she’s still making an absolute statement. That being that Catholics are the one true faith. Just like HCF believes.
I hope you will meander over to Zoe’s blog and read the entire post. 
Zoe speaks of their being two Zoe’s: one that needed certainty and absolutes, and the other that never stopped questioning. I suspect many Evangelicals turned atheist/agnostic were just like Zoe. They had a deep need for certainty and absolutes, but in the still of the night, away from the church and its pastor, their mind raced with questions that their Evangelical faith had no answer for.
Like Zoe, I was a devoted, committed, sold-out follower of Jesus Christ. I had a questioning mind too, but my questions tended to stay within the boundaries of orthodox Christianity. My trajectory was more one of moving from Evangelicalism to liberalism, and it was out a liberal Christian belief system that I ultimately apostatized.
I know pastors who are proud of the fact that they have been preaching for twenty, thirty, or even fifty years and they still believe what they believed when they started preaching. They started with a core set of beliefs and practices and have not wavered one bit. I often wonder, do they ever have doubts or questions? Do you they ever consider that they “might” be wrong?”
Zoe said of her journey, I saved myself. I know some Evangelical readers will see this as proof that Zoe was never a Christian. I am to the place in my journey where I just say
w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r when people say the same about me. People who say this are ignorant and lack the capacity to truly understand anyone or anything that does not neatly fit in their small, defined Fundamentalist box. We waste our time casting our pearls before such swine, to quote the Good Book.
Like Zoe, I saved myself. My path was a bit different from hers, but both of us had questioning minds. When you have a questioning mind, you seek answers, and when the particular religious sect you are a part of doesn’t provide answers to your questions, you start to look elsewhere.
Over the years, I have had a few former pastor friends and parishioners tell me that my reading habits were my downfall. They suggested that I stop reading books and go back to reading ONLY the King James Bible. In other words, ignorance is bliss.
Here is what I find interesting about this argument. When I was their pastor or part of the preacher fraternity, they applauded my reading habits. When they walked into my office they were surprised at how many books I owned. More than one person asked, have you really read all these books? 
Yes, really…I have. (I know pastors who take great pride in NOT having a library. All they need is the King James Bible, a Concordance, and a Dictionary. After all, that is all Jesus had.)
In the Evangelical circles I ran in, I was considered the intellectual pastor. Pastors would call and ask my thoughts on this or that passage of Scripture. But now, since that same study and worth ethic has led me to renounce my faith, suddenly, the problem is that I read too many books. (BTW, my devouring reading habit started in elementary school)
I spent most of my life in the Christian Church. Who and what I was were swallowed up by Jesus, the Church, and the Bible. I lost any sense of self-identity. After all, Jesus said, Let a man deny himself…and I took the word of Jesus seriously.(please read my posts The Denial of Self and Living in Denial) For decades, I lived according to the Evangelical mantra, Jesus FIRST, others SECOND, yourself LAST. In fact, I thought that if I put Jesus FIRST and others SECOND that I didn’t matter.
This coming Thanksgiving, it will be five years since I declared, I am no longer a Christian. Over the course of the last several years, I have seen a secular psychologist on a regular basis. He has helped me rediscover who and what I really am. He has helped me to reacquaint myself with Bruce Gerencser.
Bit by bit, Jesus, the Church, and the Bible, have been shoveled, one broken piece at a time, out of my mind. At times this has been quite painful. Becoming reconnected with who and what you really are can be frightening. Learning that you really do have emotions can be quite unsettling.
I remain a work in progress. I have no Jesus to rest in, no faith to cover myself with. I have no final authority to appeal to. I must face head-on every question that comes my way. I can’t go back and I can’t go around, so I must stop and squarely face the question in front me.
There are times I secretly yearn for the certainty of the past. I wish I could consult the Christian divination book and parse all the issues that confront me. To NOT think and just say, The BIBLE says_________________________, certainly has its appeal.
But, I know better. I know that certainty is an illusion and that finding answers to the questions I face requires hard work. No deity is going to find the answers for me. My personal salvation is not found in a religion or a divine text. The only person who can save Bruce is…Bruce.
I know what I have left but I am not sure where I am headed,
First, some time back you discussed a Clergy Project type project aimed at helping laypeople leave religion. What is the status of that project?
Thanks for asking, Brian.
To refresh everyone’s memory…I want to start a Project similar to the Clergy Project for people who are in the process of leaving the faith but who are not ready to say I am an atheist/agnostic/humanist.
These are people who still have doubts and questions. They may not even become an atheist/agnostic/humanist. Their path may lead them to liberal/progressive Christianity or some other religion altogether.
I helped with the Clergy Project when it first started. I think they are doing a wonderful job. While I am no longer active with the Clergy Project, I do support everything they are doing.
When the Clergy Project was getting up and running we had a discussion about people who were in the process of leaving the faith but who were not ready to call themselves an atheist/agnostic/humanist.
Several of us wanted the Clergy Project to admit these kind of people, but the majority wanted the Project limited to people who were now atheists/agnostics/humanists. I think this was a shortsighted decision, but I understand why they made it.
Just today, a man I have been corresponding with, a former IFB church member and pastor, wrote and told me the Clergy Project rejected his application. This rejection only added to the deep pain he feeling. I want to help people like this man.
I plan to start the Leaving the Faith Project. I have been sitting on the leavingthefaith.com domain for some time and I hope to get this project up and running sooner rather than later.
My “calling”, if I have such a thing, is to help those who are considering leaving Christianity or who have already left Christianity. I want the Leaving the Faith Project to be a safe place for those with doubts and questions to congregate and find help and fellowship.
The Leaving the Faith Project, like the Clergy Project, will be strictly regulated and controlled. As you can imagine, there will be Christians who have no compulsion about lying, who will try to infiltrate the Project and cause participants more mental and emotional pain than they already have. (next to the death of a loved one or a divorce, losing one’s faith is one of the most painful circumstances a person can face)
Stay tuned.
Lynn asked:
All those families that I went to church with in an IFB church-those that are still believing it all after all these years-How do they do it? Do they never analyze? This astounds me.
This is a great question, one that most former Christians ask themselves at one time or the other. What is implied in the question is, I escaped, why can’t they?
There are many factors that affect how, when, and why a person leaves the Christian faith. It is different for every person.
The more intellectual among us want people to know that we left Christianity for intellectual reasons. Sometimes we minimize the emotional and mental component of our deconversion. Christians, who can’t fathom anyone wanting to leave Jesus, say that people leave Christianity because they are angry, hurt, or bitter. If the former Christian admits this, then their deconversion can easily be dismissed as an emotional response rather than a intellectual choice.
For a long time, I refused to admit that I was angry, hurt, or bitter. I wanted everyone to see my deconversion as the product of my intellect. After all, this is the kind of person I am. I am an intellectual. I am analytical. I like to think I am a man who values reason above all else. Yet, if I am willing to be honest, I must also admit that I am an emotional being.
My nineteen year old son and twenty-one year old daughter are driving me crazy. Both will graduate from College this year (Northwest State Community College and Bowling Green State University) They both plan to on their own by December. I can’t wait. 
(they read this blog and they know I love them) They are ready to be on their own.
The other day my son came home from a meeting with the College dean and it was evident he was upset. As he started to tell me what was up…I offered him some advice. He got upset at me…. And here is what I told him, and later told his sister:
You need to develop a system to let me know when you want advice from me or you just want me to listen to you bitch.
My son and daughter, like all of us, are intellectual and emotional beings. Sometimes they want my advice. Other times they just want someone to listen to them bitch and complain. I have never been very good at distinguishing between the two.
The primary reasons I left Christianity are rooted in my understanding of the Bible; what it teaches and what claims Christians make for the Bible. As I tell every person who asks, I left Christianity because I came to see that the Bible was not an inerrant, infallible, God-inspired text. I came to see that the Bible was errant and filled with contradictions. From this, I concluded that Jesus was not the virgin-born son of God, that he did not work the miracles ascribed to him in the Bible, and he did not resurrect from the dead. While I think Jesus was a real person who lived in Palestine, I think he lived, died, end of story.
Did my emotions play a part in my deconversion? Sure. Was I angry? Sure. How could I not be? I spent my entire life following after and serving a Jesus who I now believe was a fraud. I spent most of my life living off of poverty wages for the sake of the gospel only to find out that my reasons for living this way are a myth…if I wasn’t angry THAT would be the real story.
While I did not leave Christianity because of being hurt, I have been hurt since I left. People who have known me for years have turned on me, called me names, questioning my sanity, suggesting I am demon possessed, or that I never was a Christian. My morals and ethics have been questioned, and life-long friends have treated me like dog-shit on the bottom of their shoes.
So yes, this kind of treatment hurts. It reminds me of the ugly underbelly of Christianity. For all their talk of love, Christians can be mean, nasty, hateful, and vindictive. As long as you are part of the club they love you…leave and they will do everything in their power to demean and marginalize you.
My counselor told me that it is rare for people like me to leave the ministry. After fifty years in the Christian church and twenty-five years in the ministry, most people like me have too much invested to walk away from it. While I am to be commended for walking away, the emotional and mental cost of walking away has been great. ( and it is one of the reasons I still see a counselor)
There are other well-known pastors-turned-atheists, but most of them did not have as much time on the job as I did. They were able to escape without spending decades in the ministry. They were able to flee before they wasted so many years of their life in a mythical pursuit.
So when we look back at the churches and people we left, we ask questions like Lynn asked above. Surely, if people just intellectually understood things like I did they would leave Christianity too. Of course, the Christian thinks the same way. They think that if the atheist just understood how wonderful Jesus was they would want to be a Christian too. However, believing or not believing is not as simple as believing or not believing a set of “facts” about Jesus, the Bible, and Christianity.
The bigger question is, why do Christians go to church? Why do people attend churches that preach things they disagree with or have a pastor they don’t even like?
The glue that binds a Christian to their church is the communal aspect of Christianity. Humans have an innate desire to belong, to be a part of something bigger than themselves. What is the one thing that atheists miss about church? Community. A sense of belonging. The connection every church member has with each other.
Many atheists miss the social aspects of attending a church. I know I do. Many days, I feel very much alone and I know a lot of atheists who feel the same way. This is why it is important for atheists/humanists to have groups that can meet the social and communal needs that atheists/humanists have.
People don’t leave Christianity because it still provides a benefit to them. I view Christianity and attending a church from an economic perspective.The Christian gets more out of the church than they are putting in and as long as it “profits” them they will likely continue to attend church. When the Christian no longer “profits” from attending church they will likely stop attending. (many readers of this blog are Christians who no longer have any connection with the institutional church)
If humanists want to grow their community, it is important that we show that we can meet the social and communal needs that people have. Very few Christians will be “argued” out of their faith. To reach them we must present them with an alternative way of life. When they “see” that a person can be moral and ethical without God, then they might be willing to consider whether what they believe is true.
We must be willing to be patient with people of faith. Calling them names, constantly ridiculing their beliefs, will only reinforce the negative view they have of atheists/humanists. (just like the nasty comments on this blog from Christians reinforces the negative view many of us have of Christianity)
We must never forget where we came from. We must never forget the sleepless nights and the emotional and mental agony we suffered as we wrestled with the loss of our faith. Instead of taking a scorched earth policy towards those who are still Christian, perhaps we should be people of love, compassion, and respect, remembering that we were once were where they are,
Liberal Christian John Shore, in a post titled, The Only Sin God Cannot Forgive, wrote:
As for Christians who renounced Christ, who are no longer Christian? Two things: 1. If they don’t care (and they can’t, since they no longer believe that Christ is any more real than the tooth fairy), then the question of what their new relationship is to Christ is the ultimate moot point; and: 2. As much ire as I know this will bring me [and it did: see below], my vote is that such a person was never really a Christian in the first place—by which I mean that their Christianity was always immature. And that’s certainly no crime.
In response to Shore’s shocking condemnation of former Christians-turned- atheists, Libby Anne wrote:
Look, I expect this from fundamentalists and conservative evangelical Christians, the kind John spends most of his time combating on LGBTQ issues. I don’t expect it from people like John. I have to wonder whether John realizes just how much pain he causes when he makes a statement like that. He mentions expecting “ire” as a result of that statement, but does he realize that the anger is rooted in pain? For the amount of time he spends blogging against pain caused in the name of Christianity, I don’t understand how he can be blind to this.
Think about the thing you believe in most, the thing you are most devoted to, the cause you most want to further, the thing that means the most to you out of everything in your life. Now imagine changing your mind on that issue in the future. How would you feel, then, in this hypothetical future, if someone were to tell you that you had never actually believed in that thing? You see, with that one little statement, John is negating the very essence and core of who I was all of those years. And that really hurts.
Like Libby Anne, I expect Evangelical Christians to make statements like Shore made. But coming from someone like John Shore? Shocking, to say the least. So how did Shore come to this conclusion?
In the above mentioned post, John Shore is attempting to answer a question about the unpardonable sin. Exactly what the unpardonable sin is (Matthew 12:31-32) has plagued Christians for 2,000 years. Ask a hundred Christians what the unpardonable sin is and you will get one hundred different answers.
Shore answers the unpardonable sin question this way:
I think what Jesus is saying here is, “I can forgive you for believing that I am not who I say I am. Apparently raising the dead just isn’t enough for some people—but whatever. That’s why I gave you free will; everyone has the right and power to doubt anything they want. But once the Holy Spirit has eradicated forever your reason to doubt who I am by awakening within in you the certain knowledge of who I am—once I have moved, in other words, from an idea outside of you to a reality inside of you—then … well, then we’re bonded for life, because the truth will then be a part of you that you could no longer willfully reject than you could eject your stomach right out of your body.”
See the trickiness? Having the only unpardonable sin be the rejection of Christ means that by definition no Christian can possibly commit that sin. And neither can any non-Christian, since you can’t reject from your life someone who’s never been in your life.
So the answer to your questions is that, yes, there is a sin that God cannot forgive—but it’s a sin that virtually no one on earth is capable of committing. Christians can’t commit it because they’re Christian, and non-Christians can’t commit it because they’re not.
Confused? You should be. Shore’s answer makes no sense. In all the years I spent studying theology, I never heard an explanation like this for the unpardonable sin. I think all that Shore does with this answer is show how little training in theology he actually has.
Shore says virtually no one can commit the unpardonable sin. So there must be some way a person can commit the unpardonable sin or Shore would have said , but it is sin that no one on earth is capable of committing. (and if this is the case why bother even discussing it)
Shore needs to figure out what he is . Either he is a universalist and everyone, in the end, will be saved, or he believes there is an objective difference between the saved and the lost.
I appreciate Shore’s attempt to make the Christian church more gay-friendly. Even though I disagree with how he contorts and reinterprets the relevant Bible passages to come to the conclusion he does, I do appreciate any effort to make Christianity kinder and inclusive. Unfortunately, Shore’s inclusivist approach stops when it comes to atheists.
Shore would have us believe that a former Christian turned atheist was never a Christian to begin with. But, then he says in the next sentence that they had an immature Christianity. Which is it? No Christianity or an immature Christianity?
The charge of having an immature Christianity is more offensive than being told you never were a Christian. I left the following comment on Shore’s post:
I am shocked at the statement you make about those of us who have left the faith. I hope you will rethink what you have written and realize it is offensive to those of us who left Christianity, not because our faith was immature or because we had no faith at all, but because we no longer believed the claims of Christianity. I would love to see how you would square my life with what you have written here.
In this post you sound just like the Evangelicals who frequent my blog. I hope you will think about this.
Shore replied:
Bruce: You used to be an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist preacher, yes? I don’t know how to say this without offending you–in fact, there is no way, of course–but … well, honestly, wouldn’t you agree that of every possible iteration of Christianity, the IFB is the most intellectually and spiritually immature? Just … by its very nature? I think I know as much about IFB as you do, and I’m very comfortable saying that. And I’m hoping you’ll be too–what with you having so … extremely outgrown it and all.
In his comment, John Shore reveals a problem that a lot of Christians have when judging the lives of people like me.
As soon as they find out you were once a part of an extreme Fundamentalist Christian sect, like the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement, they assume your life was static and you never moved beyond your Fundamentalist beliefs.
Shore seems to forget, or not know, that I left the IFB church movement in the early 1990’s, and when I left Christianity in 2008, I had been a progressive/liberal for years. While I may have begun the ministry with Jack Hyles and John R. Rice, I left the ministry with Dorothy Day, Thomas Merton, Wendell Berry, Brian McLaren, and Jim Wallis.
While Shore can easily dismiss me as long as he sees me as a former Fundamentalist, the fact is my journey out of Christianity was paved with the books of liberal and progressive authors. Coupled with the books of writers like Bart Ehrman, these authors helped me to see that the claims made for Christianity were not true. (and while I respect liberal/progressive Christians, their hermeneutics pretty much render the Bible powerless)
John Shore really stepped in it with this post. I hope he will take to heart take the criticism he has received and retract the statement he made about former Christians turned atheists. As Libby Anne says, such a statement is hurtful, and more than that, it does not reflect the life of most of the former Christians turned atheists that I know.
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. (Luke 9:23)
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. (Luke 9:24)
Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s,But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. (Mark 10:28-30)
I am convinced that most Christians are Christian in name only. They have what is commonly called cultural Christianity. It is a Christianity that does not take the Bible seriously, nor does it takes the commands of Christ seriously. It is a Christianity of convenience, a Christianity good for marrying, burying, and cultural respectability.
What do the above words of Jesus mean? Jesus demands total commitment from his followers. I have little doubt that if Jesus were alive today he would likely not recognize the religion that came into existence after his death. Who do these people think they are? Do they really think they can serve Mammon and still be my disciple? Do they really think they can live lives contrary to my teachings and still be my disciples?
It is this kind of thinking that dominated much of my adult life. Jesus first, nothing else matters. Everything and everyone else was secondary to being a follower of Jesus. I had little use for the JOY acronym, Jesus first, Others second, yourself last. All that mattered was a single-minded devotion to Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the living God.
I took the Bible seriously. I lived by the mantra, only one life, twill soon be past, only what’s done for Christ will last. I saw everyone in the world as saved or lost. Heaven awaited the saved and hell awaited the lost. Since hell and judgment were sure, how could I devote one moment to idleness or entertainment? Lost souls hung in the balance. If I didn’t share with them the good news of the gospel, who would?
I had little use for lazy, professional pastors. Pastors who spent all their time golfing and going to conferences and fellowship meetings. Pastors who gave lip service to the command to, “go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. “
I was convinced that it was better to burn out for Jesus than rust out. I was an eight-day a week pastor, who rarely took time off and rarely took a vacation. Even when I took a vacation, I planned the vacation around preaching at conferences or special meetings.
For many years, I taught Sunday School, preached twice on Sunday, once on Thursday, once on Tuesday at the nursing home, and several times a week on the streets of Zanesville, Lancaster, Newark, and Crooksville.
During the evenings, I went on visitation, and on Saturday I went on bus visitation. I spent hours each week studying and preparing sermons. I had an open door policy and most every day someone would stop by to talk to me about this or that problem in their life.
I do not say any of this as a way of bragging about what a great pastor I was. I want you to understand how I lived my life for many years. Every waking hour was spent doing the work of the ministry. Jesus first, nothing else matters.
Jesus came before my family. I was willing to forsake the comforts of family for the sake of the gospel. After all, Jesus gave his all for me, how can I give any less than my all to him? My wife and children were, in many ways, just props for the furtherance of the ministry God had called me to. Whenever God called me to do something they were expected to fall in line and march with me to the beat of Jesus’s drum.
This singular devotion took me to churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Never once did my wife complain. Never once did she question God’s leading in my life. She knew that following her husband was part of what it meant to be a good pastor’s wife. Every need and every desire she might have had to be measured by the needs of the ministry and the work God had called her husband to.
My children were never allowed to be like other children. They were the preacher’s kids. They had to do right and obey at all times. Church parents were looking at our family to see what good parenting looked like. The Bible said in 1 Timothy 3:
This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work…One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
My children never got to do many of the things other children did. There was no time for idleness or superficial entertainments. Sports? They couldn’t play because practice conflicted with the midweek service. They were safe, fed, clothed, and educated. What more could a child want?
From the time they were in elementary school, my children learned to work. They worked in the garden, mowed the grass, cut wood, stoked the wood stove, and helped with endless church work days and construction projects. When something needed done around the church they were expected to help. Griping and complaining was never allowed.
And yet, my family and I were quite happy. We lived a life focused on what we thought really mattered. By all accounts, my children turned out well. They somehow, in the midst of the busyness of a pastor’s home, found time to be kids.
As adults, they are hard-working, tax paying, productive members of society. Their employers compliment them on their work ethic and their devotion to detail. I wonder if they hear their dad’s voice in their head, do it right the first time or when it is time to work we work?
2013. Ten years since I pastored my last church. Four years since I left the Christian faith. As I look back on my life as a pastor I have many regrets. I wish I had put my wife and family first. I wish I had taken taken time to be a husband and dad, rather than always being the pastor. I wish I had taken time to enjoy the natural world. I wish I had taken time to rest. I wish I had taken vacations. I wish I had put the economic security of my family first. I wish I could go back and tell the people I pastored to live life to its fullest since it is the only one they will ever have. I wish I could gain back the time I lost in what I now see as delusion.
But, if I was still a Christian, I would likely still live my life the same way. After all. the Bible says….
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. ( Matthew 6:33)
How Some Evangelicals View Me, the Godless Ex-Preacher
I don’t get it.
I am but ONE man with a story to tell.
I write about my past experience as an Evangelical Christian and pastor.
I write about my journey out of Evangelicalism to Atheism.
I write about my personal opinion on matters affecting the culture I live in with a few posts about photography, sports, and the like thrown in.
My writing is passionate and personal.
I am a well-past-prime balding man, married to a wonderful woman, six great kids, and eight awesome grandkids.
My family loves me and I love them.
All in all, life is good.
Yes, I am disabled. Yes, pain is ever with me, Yes, life is a struggle.
Life is what it is and I accept life as it is.
So what is it in my story, in my life, that causes some Evangelicals to react so violently?
I am not a national figure. This blog is read by thousands, not millions of people.
I have not written a New York Times Bestseller. I am not famous in any sense of the word. Shitting on my doorstep might be cathartic for some Evangelicals, but I just hose off the porch and life goes on, with few people ever knowing someone shit on my doorstep.
Yes, my story is somewhat unique. I know it is unusual for someone my age ,with my background, to walk away from everything and embrace atheism.
But, it does happen and surprisingly there are a lot of ex-old preachers turned atheists. They may not have a blog or be as open and vocal as I am, but they can be found most everywhere one looks. (I know because they write me or I met them through The Clergy Project)
I am no Madalyn Murray O’Hair, Richard Dawkins, or Christopher Hitchens. I live in a small rural town in Ohio and the reach of my godlessness is limited. (less than 1% of the people who read this blog are local)
So, why the outrage? Why the hateful, judgmental, mean-spirited letters?
I get a lot of email. Most of the email is from people with questions or who want to thank me for my writing. Every day or so I get an email from someone desperately in need of help. Their involvement in Evangelical/Fundamentalist/Conservative religion has caused untold harm to them, their family, and their marriage.
My heart breaks when I get these kind of emails. I wonder about the damage I did to the people I pastored. I wonder about my children and my wife. They seem fine, but I often feel guilty over the past.
Ever the pastor, I try to help anyone who writes me. I don’t preach at them and I don’t try to convert anyone to my way of thinking. Yes, I have a point of view. Yes, I have opinions and ideas. Yes, I have ideals, Certain things matter deeply to me. I am, after all, human.
But, I have zero interest in making other people like me. Pardon the cliché, we are all on a journey. If we walk our journey openly and honestly, we will end up right where we need to be. Christianity taught me life was about believing the right things and reaching the right destination. Atheism teaches me life is about the journey and not the destination. I am far more concerned with authenticity than I am making sure I have all the right answers to the 100 question True-Christian test, What do you believe? (answer one question incorrectly and you fail)
Multiple times each week I get emails from Evangelicals who believe it is their calling in life to preach at me, quote Bible verses to me, deconstruct my life, tell me what they think of me, and generally judge my life in way their pastor would tell them only God can do.
Evidently some Evangelicals think an atheist does not deserve kindness, decency, or respect. From name calling to attacking my character and motives, to making disparaging remarks about my disability, physical appearance, or family, they quickly remind me why I am glad to be free from Christianity. By their actions, they are a lighted billboard advertising the bankruptcy of a faith that purports to change the life of everyone who comes in contact with it. If their emails are evidence of a “changed” life, I hate to see how they were before they found Jesus.
So what is it in my writing that turns some Evangelical Christians into nasty, vindictive, mean-spirited people?
Here is my take on the matter.
I think many Evangelical Christians are troubled by my story. More than one former parishioner has told me they don’t read my blog because they find it unsettling. They simply can not mentally or emotionally process how the man who once taught them the things of God is now an atheist. I can only imagine how difficult it is to process, Pastor Bruce or the Preacher, as most people called me, is now an atheist.
They fear, if Bruce, a man of God, a devoted follower of Jesus, can turn from the faith, it is possible they will too. (and remember, he that endureth to the end shall be saved. No one can KNOW they are saved until the end)
So what do some Evangelical Christians do? They lash out at me because they find my story unsettling and it makes them fearful. ( and I fully understand the emotions in play here)
Usually I ignore nasty, vindictive, mean-spirited letters. I subscribe to the Bible adage, don’t cast your pearls before swine. Sometimes though, I will try to engage them . My counselor has told me more than once that I naïvely think my critics want to know and understand me. They don’t.
By attacking me, it gives them a feeling of vindication. It reinforces their “rightness.” They think by putting me in my place or putting a word in for Jesus, God will be pleased with their unflinching stand for the things of God. (how they can know this I do not know)
Since I do not know any of the letter writers personally, I can not judge their motives. (though that doesn’t seem to stop them from judging mine) All I am left with is wondering why they respond the way they do? Why invest one moment on a poor ,lost, deluded, never was saved, apostate like me?
Once I found out the Bible was not an inspired, inerrant text, my Evangelical house of cards came tumbling to the ground.
Several Christian bloggers have taken this statement to mean that once I no longer believed in the inspiration and inerrancy of the Christian Bible, I then became an atheist.
While it is true that once I came to see the Bible was not inspired, not inerrant, and not infallible I abandoned the Evangelical faith, I did not immediately turn to atheism.
My journey from Evangelicalism to Atheism was a long, arduous, and painful one.
My journey actually began when I was still a Christian pastor. Long before I questioned the authority of the Bible, I began to have doubts about Christianity itself. Being a pastor for twenty-five years will do that to you. For the last few years in the ministry, I became increasingly discouraged with the state of Christianity in America. The Christian church was rife with internecine warfare, in direct contradiction to Jesus’s command that the world would know we were his followers by the love we had for one another.
During this time, I abandoned my conservative, Republican political views and began to embrace a liberal political view. As my politics move leftward so did my theological views. I was sympathetic towards the emerging, emergent church movement and I appreciated the work of men like Brian McLaren, Jim Wallis, and Tony Campolo. (and Catholic writers Thomas Merton and Dorothy Day, along with Gandhi)
Towards the end of my ministry, I was a closet liberal pastoring conservative, Evangelical churches. I became quite catholic in my view of other Christians. I was willing to embrace Catholics as fellow Christians and my view on abortion and homosexuality changed from anti to pro.
During this time, I still held on to the belief that the Bible was the inspired, inerrant Word of God.
2003 marked the end for me as far as the ministry was concerned. For a couple of years, I candidated at churches here and there, but I found no church I was willing to go to or was willing to have me. (one church wanted me to be their pastor but I had to commit to only using the KJV of the Bible. I could not do this.) (read The Disaffected Years, 2004-2008)
As time went on, Polly and I decided to look for a church we could call home, a church that we could use our talents to help the church and advance the kingdom of God. Over the course of three years we visited over one hundred churches. What we found confirmed our worst fears about the Christian church, and in November of 2008 we attended church for the last time. (read Wilderness Wanderings, 2002-2012)
Once I stopped attending church, I turned my attention to my theological beliefs. What did I really believe? The first belief to go was my belief that the Bible was inspired and inerrant. (Bart Ehrman was extremely helpful at this juncture) Once free of the notion that the Bible was a supernatural text inspired by a supernatural God, I turned my attention to the core teachings of Christianity.
As I took a fresh, new look the the teachings of Christianity, I came to the conclusion that I could no longer believe what the Bible said about God, the divinity of Jesus, his virgin birth and resurrection from the dead. Simply put, I could no longer embrace the fundamentals of Christianity as truth. While I still think a man by the name of Jesus lived in Palestine, I no longer think this man was God. He lived and he died, end of story.
I took Bart Ehrman’s suggestion and I changed how I read the Bible. Instead of trying to read the Bible though a particular theological lens, I allowed each book and author to stand on its own. All of a sudden, the Biblical text looked completely different. The Bible says, Let US make man in our image. Instead of straining this text through Trinitarian theology, I let it stand on its own. I came to the conclusion that the Bible reveals to readers many Gods, rather than the Three in One God of Christianity. ( I saw a progression from polytheism to monotheism)
As I took a careful look at the New Testament, again without making any attempt to harmonize the competing passages of Scripture, I came to the conclusion that there are several different Christianities in the Bible. I found that the Christianity of Jesus is quite different from the Christianity of Paul. A case could also be made for Peter and James having their own distinct versions of Christianity.
When I look at the natural world with all its wonders, I can fully understand how a person might conclude that a deity of some sort created everything. However, affirming that A God created the universe is far different from affirming that the Christian God, the God revealed in the Bible, created the Bible. I came to the conclusion that there was not a rational way for me to get from A GOD to THE GOD of Christianity. Such a belief required faith, a faith I did not have.(read, You Must Believe in A GOD before you can choose THE GOD.)
From this intense, painful study of the Bible and the literature of other religions, I came to the conclusion that the Christian God does not exist. While I am agnostic concerning whether or not a deity of some sort exists, I decided that, based on how I live my day to day life, I am an atheist.
Most every day, I get an email from a well meaning Christian who wants to know what “hurt” I suffered to cause me to leave Christian faith. Other email writers suggest I must be angry, bitter, or burnt-out. None of these people can imagine someone looking at the Bible and the claims of the Christianity and coming to the conclusion that the Christian Bible is just a book and that the Christian God does not exist.
While I will readily admit to being burnt-out and having spells of anger and bitterness, at the end of the day, my defection from Christianity is rooted in an intellectual pursuit that led me from Evangelicalism to atheism.
For me, it has always been about the Bible.
Guest Post by Paul Sunstone who blogs at Sunstone’s Café
My mother, who was a Christian, intentionally raised my brothers and me as agnostics.
You see, mom had a theory: Questions such as whether God exists, whether Jesus is our lord and savior, whether there is a heaven and hell — all such questions were far too important to be decided by little boys according to her. Hence, she strictly forbid us reaching any conclusions about religious matters until we were able to reason as adults. As a consequence, I grew up resisting — for the most part — the temptation to arrive at any firm conclusions regarding religion.
Of course, it is almost impossible to grow up in a society that is 80% Christian without unconsciously adopting many of the views and assumptions of your Christian friends and neighbors. Looking back, I think I adopted so many Christian views and assumptions that I might have been fairly labeled a Christian in all but a handful of ways.
For instance: I neither believed in nor disbelieved in god, but — like any good Christian — I thought the question of god’s existence was crucially important. More over, the god I neither believed in nor disbelieved in was very much like the God of the Christians. In those and in a hundred other ways, I was more or less a Christian — without being aware of myself as such.
Consequently, I can look back now and see how I have spent a lot of my life freeing myself from Christianity. And one way I’ve freed myself from Christianity is by freeing myself from the Christian notion of self-sacrifice.
Growing up, I was taught that a good person was, among other things, self-sacrificing and even self-effacing; that he or she not only did what was beneficial to others, but did it for little or no reward of any kind. Unfortunately, that was one of the things about Christianity that I took to heart. And for so long as I took it to heart, I could not understand what it meant to be true to myself.
The notion of being true to myself sounded suspicious to me. If you were busy being true to yourself, weren’t you by necessity neglecting other people? The people you should be sacrificing yourself for? Being true to yourself just didn’t make much sense to me, so I never really investigated it.
When I finally did get around to examining the idea — which was not until mid-life — I discovered that it had a lot more going for it than I had imagined. As I learned how to apply it,. I found it gave me a richer sense of purpose and meaning than I had suspected it would.
I think an important key to understanding what it means to be true to yourself is to grasp that our beliefs are not what we most need to be true to. Of course, beliefs are of crucial importance in Christianity. After all, whether you spend eternity in heaven or hell largely seems to depend on your beliefs. But that prejudice can be misleading for beliefs are of much less importance to being true to oneself. Beliefs come and go. If we make a reasonable effort to have true beliefs, then we are almost certainly required to change and update our beliefs as we gather new information. For that and other reasons, it is risky to make them paramount.
I am of the opinion that, instead of focusing on what we believe — and then trying to be true to those beliefs — we should focus more on our talents. And then try to turn those talents into socially responsible skills. In my experience, that brings the richest and most lasting sense of meaning and purpose.
There’s a saying (often mistakenly attributed to Aristotle) that goes something like this: “At the crossroads where your talents and skills meet the needs of the world, there lies your well-being or happiness”. To illustrate, imagine someone with a talent or gift for music. By turning that talent into musical skills, he or she is being true to themselves. Then, by using their skills to meet the needs of the world for music, they increase their chances of finding some measure of happiness. Yet, in my experience, even if they do not meet the needs of the world, even if they keep their music to themselves, they are likely to find happiness and a sense of well-being simply in turning their talent into skills.
I do not hold Christianity entirely responsible for my not having discovered the rewards of being true to myself until mid-life. I think there were other factors involved as well. But I believe Christianity — at least to the extent it made me suspicious of being true to myself — impeded my progress in that direction.
There have been several other ways in which I believe my life has improved as I’ve freed myself from the Christian ideas and assumptions I unwittingly adopted while growing up. But that is by no means to say I think of Christianity as an evil that must be abolished. Rather, it’s just that in my own case I have discovered — time and again — that it is a poor fit for me.
You have finally come out of the closet.
You have declared to your family and friends that you are an unbeliever, that you no longer are a Christian.
You feel good. You feel clean. Finally the burden has been lifted.
Everyone knows.
Now what?
If you are married your new found freedom of unbelief comes with a new marital dynamic, especially if your spouse is still a believer, still a Christian.
When I left the ministry, left the Christian Church, and finally left the faith altogether, my wife was right there by my side. At first, I was concerned she was just following along. After all, that’s what Baptist women are taught to do, follow their husband. Don’t think, just obey. Submit.
Over time it became clear that my wife was staking out her own ground. I asked her awhile back if she wanted to go to church. Her response was a quick and sharp NO. She has no interest in going to Church.
I am blessed to have a partner that embraces many of the same things I do. I am grateful she is a fellow unbeliever. (and according to some we will roast in hell together) Our affinity for the same beliefs makes life much easier to navigate.
I know that some of the readers of this blog are not so fortunate. Their marriages are mixed marriages, where one partner is a believer and the other is not.
I can’t imagine a more difficult circumstance than to have one partner committed to a belief system like Christianity and the other partner believing that the Christian God does not exist or does not exist in the form put forth by the modern Christian Church.
A mixed marriage is fraught with danger. The threat of conflict and dissolution are real. Many marriages do not survive the conflict and end in separation or divorce.
Then there is the whole matter of children.
It is likely that the unbeliever does not want their children educated in the superstitions or doctrines of Christianity. The believer adamantly believes that the children should go to church. How are the children going to learn good moral and ethical values if they don’t go to church?
Baptisms. Dedications. Confirmations. Weddings. Funerals. Christmas. Easter.
The opportunities for conflict are many . What should the unbeliever do? I wish there was a magical Unbeliever’s Bible to turn to in hopes of finding an answer but there is not. The unbeliever is left to their own reasoning to determine how to engage and live with their believing partner.
The remainder of this post is more of a “what would Bruce do” rather than the rules for navigating the believer/unbeliever road. I don’t want anyone to turn my words into a how-to manual for couples trying to make their marriage work in light of one partner’s unbelief.
Communication
It is important for couples to communicate with each other, even more so when one partner does not believe. Religion, by nature, brings conflict into a mixed marriage. Religion is an attempt to answer the great questions of life: why I am here, what is the purpose of life, how should I live my life, what happens when I die.
Both the believer and the unbeliever should have the freedom to express their feelings and beliefs. Openness and honesty is very important.
In an open and honest relationship there will be times when one partner verbalizes a belief that is 180 degrees opposite from what the other partner believes. Hopefully the couple will be able to talk about their differences. The goal is understanding not acquiescence.
Discussions can, and should be, passionate, however they should never turn into abusive diatribes where one partner beats the other over the head with the Bible or the other partner mocks the mythical sky God. Respect your partner’s beliefs even if you think their beliefs are foolish or contrary to reason. Believers and unbelievers alike must learn to respect those who hold to different beliefs than theirs. I know this is not easy. Sometimes we have to swallow our pride and sense of rightness.
Proselytizing is never acceptable, Sicking the pastor, church members, or deacons on the unbelieving partner is sure to cause conflict and could ultimately destroy your marriage. Think twice about requesting at church prayer for your unbelieving partner. How will they respond when a filled with the Holy Ghost, loose lipped church member sees your partner at the mall and proceeds to let them know how the WHOLE church is praying for them in the hope that they will become a Christian.
Children
Children are a lightening rod for conflict in a mixed marriage. It is likely that the believing partner will want the children to attend church. After all, where will the children learn morals and ethics?
I think it is proper for the unbeliever to lovingly confront the believing partner’s assumption about the value of church in teaching morals and ethics. Personally, I think children learn ethics and morals from those they interact with the most. Two hours a week in church pales in comparison to the time parents spend with their children.
Church “may” benefit children but it also has the potential to harm them. Churches can be, and are, dens of intolerance. Anytime a church groups people into classes (saved ,lost,heterosexual, sodomite) there is a risk the children will be taught to be intolerant. (whole generations of racists received their racist training compliments of the Christian church)
What will the children be exposed to at church? Will they be pressured to make a “decision” for Jesus, asking Jesus into their heart? Will they be encouraged to develop critical thinking skills or will they be taught dogma and encouraged to view unbelievers as heathen, unsaved, or people headed to hell?
Children should never be used to coerce the unbelieving partner into going to church. More than one spouse has used their children as a tool for evangelism. “Why don’t you go ask daddy/mommy if they want to go to church with us.” Such a tactic usually results in marital conflict. Children should never be put between the believing and unbelieving parent.
Moments of intense conflict often come when the believing partner wants one of the children baptized or confirmed. The unbeliever most likely thinks religious rituals are a waste of time. However the believer, if they are serious about their religion, believes the rituals have great meaning and significance. Baptism washes away original sin, is a sign of the covenant, an outward sign of an inward act, etc ,etc. (churches have varied views on what baptism signifies and whether or not it is a means of grace)
Recently, I attended the baptism of my granddaughter Emma. Her mother and father attend the Catholic church. To be honest I didn’t want to go to the baptism. I didn’t want to step foot in a church building, not for fear that it would fall in, but because of the anger I still have towards organized religion. I have a special place of anger for the Catholic church. I do not understand why anyone would want to be a part of a church that has such a bloody history as the Catholic church. (and add to to that the sex scandal the church is currently embroiled in)
But Emma’s baptism is not about me and my views. Her parents wanted her baptized and I respect their beliefs. As long as I did not have to participate in the baptism and I wasn’t required to affirm any religious dogma I thought I could attend the baptism without fear of conflict. I did have a “I want to shout bullshit” moment when the priest exorcised the devil out of my granddaughter but I held my tongue.
A mixed marriage with children is fraught with danger and there will be many places where the marriage can be shipwrecked unless both partners work very hard to avoid conflict .
In general I will attend religious rituals, ceremonies as long as I am not required to participate in the ritual or ceremony. In the case of my granddaughters baptism I attended the ritual to support my son and daughter-in-law.
At the start of my unbelief I found it impossible to attend any religious rituals or ceremonies. I was too angry and I feared making a scene. Over time I have mellowed out and now I am comfortable attending rituals and ceremonies in support of my children and grandchildren.
Holidays
Holidays are special times when the risk of believer/unbeliever conflict is especially high. Christmas and Easter are two holidays that offer any number of points of conflict. Avoiding conflicts requires everyone to be willing to compromise. (remember the overall objective is to have a home free of animosity and conflict)
Christians believe that Christmas is a high holy day, the birth of their savior Jesus Christ. The unbeliever doesn’t believe the Christmas story. They likely know that Jesus wasn’t born on December 25th and no doubt they have read about the similarities between the Christian religion and other pagan religions. (I consider all religions pagan)
Easter is very similar to Christmas. Easter celebrates the the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Easter is THE day in the Christian Church. As a pastor I often said that a lot of people are like a flower that blooms twice a year, at Christmas and Easter. The unbeliever likely knows the history behind the church co-opting the Easter holiday from the pagans. The unbeliever probably doesn’t believe in the supernatural and they likely consider Christ’s resurrection, along with the virgin birth and the miracles Jesus did, as nothing more than superstitions.
When I first left the Christian faith I did not want anything religious uttered in my home. “Keep that shit to yourself” was my approach. Over time I realized I was being unfair to family members who were religious. Life is not all about me.
When the family gathers in our home I ask my father-in-law (a retired pastor) to say a prayer over the meal. I allow this for the benefit of others. I am of the opinion that prayer accomplishes nothing since there is no God that answers prayer. (there “may” be a god but I am quite certain that god does not answer the prayers of the faithful)
Once again, as long as I am not put in a position that requires me to participate in a ritual or affirm religious dogma I am indifferent to those who want to do differently. Several years ago one family member wanted us to go around the dinner table and say what we were thankful for. (the implication is thankful to GOD for) I asked that it not be done because it put everyone on the spot to come up with something they are thankful to God for. Needless to say the meal was quite tense. I was thankful when the meal was over.
Conclusion
Any relationship that brings believers and unbelievers together will have conflict. They key is to manage the conflict in such a way that allows each person to maintain their dignity and self-respect. This is not easy to do when one partner thinks the other is a potential salvation prospect or the unbelieving partner thinks the beliefs the believing partner are bat-shit crazy.
This is a two-way street. Unfortunately, it seems that believers most always want the unbeliever to back down. After all they are one with the new unbelief belief. The family has always been Christian and the unbeliever should not expect them to change.
The unbeliever does not (or should not) expect believers to deny their belief in God, Jesus, the Bible, etc. All the unbeliever asks for is respect. My wife and I have stopped going the her family’s Christmas get-together because the level of religious and political intolerance is so high that it makes impossible for us to have a good time. (and raises the risk of me having a stroke) The family expects us, the only unbelievers, to go along with whatever is done, yet they find offense when they come into our unbelieving home, a home where religion has no place. At times, it seems this gulf is almost impossible to bridge.
Sometimes couples have to decide that religious discussions (and often political) are off limits. This is not ideal because of the many areas of life religion touches, but, for the sake of the marriage, it might be better not to discuss issues relating to the believing/unbelieving divide. This requires both partners to compartmentalize their lives.
Neither partner should demand or force the other to participate in things that violate their conscience. Share the 90% of life you have in common with each other and realize that many people would love to be 90% compatible with their partner. ( 2 out of 3 ain’t bad)
No couple is 100% compatible. My wife and I tolerate each other rather well, We can talk about most anything. However there is one thing we can’t talk about, suicide. When depressed and racked with pain head to toe I will talk about taking a ride on the .357 train. My dear wife freaks out about this and it is one area where we can not seem to have open, honest discussion. I could be bitter about this but that would hurt our marriage. So, my counselor has the privilege of parsing “Bruce’s suicide talk.”
I could focus on the one thing Polly and I can not talk about OR I can focus on the wonderful, open, loving marriage we have 99% of the time. It is easy to become fixated on the 1% and totally miss the wonderful 99% you share with your partner.
Some marriages will end in separation or divorce. The believer/unbeliever divide is too wide and one or both partners find it impossible to find ways to close the divide. Perhaps the believer/unbeliever conflict exacerbates problems that were under the surface long before the conflict over religion began. The conflict over religion only brought light to matters that have been lurking in the shadows for years.
Before dissolving your marriage I would encourage you to see a marriage counselor. Make sure the counselor is a secular counselor. A religious (one who believes the Bible is truth) counselor can not be objective. The secular counselor is able to see the issues more clearly since their view is not clouded by dogma and presuppositions about family, marriage, etc. I know that some Christians will find my advice offensive but if they think about it for a moment they will know I am right. A conscientious Christian counselor most likely has views about human nature, sin, marriage and divorce that would only muddle the problems the couple is having. When Jesus is the ultimate answer for every problem an unbeliever will find such counseling a waste of time.
Above all, talk to each other. Be open and honest with each other. Be passionate without resorting to temperamental outbursts and ill advised pronouncements. For those of us who have been married a long time, consider the investment you have made in your marriage over the years. When someone suddenly professes faith in Christ or professes they no longer believe in God it can cause turmoil in the best of marriages. Move slowly and carefully. Consider the other person, the person you love and the person you have spent a lifetime with, facing everything life can throw your way. Facing this latest battle will not be easy but most likely you can face it together and find a way to live in peace with each other, leaving thoughts about eternity to that day when we all will know whether or not our beliefs were right.