In His Own Words: Jaisen, the Catholic

catholicism

Regular readers know that a Catholic commenter by the name of Jaisen, real name Jason Jones, has left comments on Please Help Me Understand Why You Stopped Believing, Should a Christian Attend a Same-Sex Wedding?, and Why I Hate Jesus.  I have deleted a number of his comments, after warning him that I would do so. Finally, I banned him, blocking his IP address at the server level. So he could continue to leave comments, he spent much of today using an IP service that gives him a new, unblocked IP address. I banned about 10 IP addresses.

I did approve several  comments, thinking that his vitriol would be instructive. Jaisen objected, saying that by doing this I have presented a skewed, incomplete picture of him. He’s right, so here is all his comments, in all their glory, for ever and ever, Amen. Consider this post to be The Last Will and Testament of Jaisen, the Catholic ©. (almost 5,000 words)

I don’t plan to approve or post any further comments from Jaisen.

Bruce

Comment 1

From a quick read of your article it sounds as if you were in it for all the wrong reasons to begin with. I say that not to belittle your story, it’s just the impression I got. I don’t wish to argue, just recommend a few things. If you ever again have a yearning to know Jesus again, start at the beginning, not the 1500’s. Read the writings of first, second, third, etc., century Christians, e.g., St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Polycarp, St. Justin, St. Irenaeus and others. True orthodoxy and orthopraxy resides in their writings. One of my favorite current authors is Scott Hahn; I highly recommend him. Peter Kreeft comes highly recommended as well. And if you ever again go in search of a church that takes seriously the teachings of Jesus, you’ll find a spiritual home like none other in the Catholic Church. Her doors are always open to you and yours. May God bless you on your journey!

Comment 2

Thank you for your kind, intelligent, well thought out reply. If I may reply (somewhat in jest), which of the 45,000+ divided Protestant denominations who are incapable of doing anything in one accord, let alone praying, should I credit for churning out money hungry, calumnious atheists? Please keep the bloviating to a minimum—I’d hate to miss anything relevant due to speed reading.

Comment 3

Actually, I only said one thing regarding Protestantism, Bruce being the case-in-point. Not sure to what else you’re referring. “But pretending that Catholicism doesn’t have huge problems, is putting a blindfold on your face.” I never said it didn’t. But one thing I can say is that the Church doesn’t promote things that are anathema to biblical teaching as various denominations so proudly do.

Sgl tried to help Jaisen:

Jaisen, you may think your comments are original and insightful, but every few weeks, someone exactly like you comes by, and drops nearly identical comments.  imagine a school teacher, and the number of times they’ve heard the same excuses for why the homework wasn’t done.  imagine a lawyer or judge hearing the same excuses for how the check was lost in the mail.  well, that’s bruce’s blog when people like you drop by, make a shoot-from-the-hip observation based on no reading of his story and rigid stereotypes about atheists.

as i understand it, in peace negotiations and marriage counselling, one of techniques is to require each side to state the position of the other side (not agree with it, just state it) in a fashion that the counter party says “yes, that is an accurate statement of my position.”  because too often, the different sides don’t actually understand the other side, and are too busy arguing to actually listen.  this technique forces them to listen.

the fact is that bruce and many of the readers here understand your position very well, since many/most were strongly religious, often for decades.  yet you do not understand bruce’s or anyone else here’s position at all.  and from your tone, it’s very clear you have no interest in learning about anyone else’s position and how they arrived at it.

hence, despite the fact that you think you’re a special little snow flake with just the exact pearls of wisdom that bruce needs, in fact you’re merely a dot in a blizzard of wanna-be apologists that drop by, spout predictable platitudes from an extremely small bingo-card of religious propaganda, and then expect ooohs and ahhhs of adoration for you enlightening us.   sorry, but you’re boring and predictable and frankly obnoxious.  the fact that you can’t see this only makes it even more a waste of time for all of us.

Comment 4

Here’s Bruce’s first reply to me, a first time reader:

“When priests stop molesting boys and diddling teenagers let me know.”

Bruce’s second, passive aggressive sub-comment to me:

“My reply to Jansen was meant to be snarky and dismissive.”

Apparently Bruce thinks pedophilia is limited to one religious or even non-religious affiliation.

I admitted that I quickly read his long, fluffy blog and that what I said was just the impression I got from quickly reading his own words (such as there not being enough money for him in ministry). I kindly made some suggestions in a non-aggressive manner and wished him well, yet the above comments were the bigoted responses I received. No invite to read more of his articles to broaden my brief view of his position, no equivalent suggestions to purvey to understand what led him where he is now, no olive branch to lure me along his own “enlightened” path. Just the same old tired, worn out, divisive atheist hyperbole. With such a brief and hateful introduction, now I can affirmatively say thank goodness this man is no longer a pastor with such a horrible attitude towards those with different views. That’s the kind of Christian who gives us all a bad name and drives people away from faith, including themselves (obviously). But at least you all have each other to wallow in your bigotry
and hate-filled vitriol together.

As for your own reply to me, change my name to yours at the top and ditto, pal. You guys can pretend to be all intellectually superior and further isolate yourselves all you like, but don’t expect any respectful crosstalk when that’s all we ever get from you. My apologies for wasting your time; a four paragraph response to someone you know nothing about filled with such judgmental presumptions kind of speaks otherwise, but hey, whatever floats your boat. And FYI, the Church and all of Christendom have been dealing with your type and your shallow arrogance for over 2,000 years now, but do feel free to let us know when YOU come up with something original.

Sgl tries to help Jaisen again:

you were in it for all the wrong reasons to begin with”

a shoot from the hip character assassination of bruce, despite your protestations to the contrary

“True orthodoxy and orthopraxy resides in their writings.” “a church that takes seriously the teachings of Jesus, you’ll find a spiritual home like none other in the Catholic Church”

demonstrating that you think you and your church have the one true religion, and everyone else got it wrong.  almost every sect makes the same claim.  while this is “suggestions in a non-aggressive manner”, it’s also rather haughty.  anyone who’s read church history, or read about the inconsistencies in the bible, or the scholarship of how the bible came to be, would label those statements as rather bold to say the least.

“Apparently Bruce thinks pedophilia is limited to one religious or even non-religious affiliation. “

“blaming the church for the flaws of men is an appropriate response to my inviting you to read something you may not have read before? Aside from the obvious calumny and bigotry … “

ahh, yes, the “get out of jail free” card; all flaws are due to fallen men, but somehow it’s still the true church.  while pedophilia is certainly not limited to one religion or institution, it’s the catholic church that has covered this up for *decades*, and continues to stonewall any reform.  hardly an institution that “takes seriously the teachings of jesus.”  sorry, but pointing this out is not bigotry, it’s speaking truth to power.  the fact that you continue to believe in the church, and probably continue to tithe, and not hold your leaders accountable, is why the problem persists.  and why bruce and many others will take them or their adherents seriously when they claim moral superiority.

so, at every turn, all you’ve done is blame bruce (or me, or atheists), and have not once accepted any criticism of your church or yourself.  and you’ve made excuse after excuse for your behavior and the church’s behavior.  a more appropriate, (perhaps christian) response, would have been to apologize for jumping to conclusions, admit that the church has some serious moral failings that bother you also.   hence, i’m done talking with  you.  if bruce wants to let you continue to comment, that’s his choice.

Comment 5

Bruce,

Apparently you’re not familiar with the concept of speed reading. Typically, it results from being in a hurry and having little time, hence my not reading any of your other linked articles. As they say, “common sense isn’t so common.”

So, blaming the church for the flaws of men is an appropriate response to my inviting you to read something you may not have read before? Aside from the obvious calumny and bigotry (which continued in your recent reply), that’s some serious rash judgement on your behalf and even more revealing of your character.

My original post wasn’t intended to be an attack on your character, but wow, I’m not sure how you pastored anything that long with such thin skin! And seriously, how could your comment about poverty not stick out to me like a sore thumb? As believers we’re called to poverty of spirit and worldly possessions, two things you clearly have no desire for. That’s a rather obvious advantage of the priesthood–being more concerned with God rather than the things of this world and the flesh. But that’s neither here nor there; that deeper theological virtue/significance didn’t even occur to me until you got so butthurt about it.

It’s truly odd seeing such an entitlement mentality from a man of the previous generation. I suppose that’s a manifestation of such self-interest, among the other obvious things. I read your rather lengthy post out of curiosity, not fealty. So I’m sorry, I don’t owe it to you to read anymore. I’m honestly not even interested anymore after your passive-aggressive rants against my imaginary assault on your character and your continued antagonizing sarcasm.

Again, it wasn’t my intent to ridicule your past, and my invite to explore the Church and the writings of her fathers was sincere. I offer you my deepest apologies for causing you such a spike in your blood pressure, inadvertently “stirring you up.” Be sure to have your Catholic sons and daughter-in-laws come on here and read the bigoted, vitriolic, anti-Catholic, hyperbolic comments about their faith that you spill so freely on unsuspecting passersby. While it’ll be unwise coming from someone who has gone their entire life without fully comprehending it, I’ll wait with bated breath for your post about Roman Catholicism, as I’m sure they will as well. I’m sure it’ll be a real call to interfaith communication.

Peace be with you.

Comment 6

SGL,

Yes, I admitted it was a “shoot from the hip” impression. Solid work, Captain Obvious. Oh and thanks for the advice on proper Christian response, but no thanks. That’d be like taking advice from a mouse on how to be a good lion.

If I didn’t believe the Church teachings and authority were absolute, I wouldn’t be there. That would just make me another watered down hypocrite. See, that’s the difference between an opinion and a conviction, the subjective and the objective. If I wanted a watered down version, I’d return to one of the countless sects who work tirelessly to reinvent the wheel while pretending the first 1,500 years of Christianity doesn’t exist. But hey, anyone who’s ever read about the inconsistencies of the Bible might understand that it’s not a book, but a collection of books, hence the supposed inconsistencies.

And yes, flaws come from the failures of men. The Church doesn’t flaunt those things in pride parades or preach them from the altar as do various liberal churches from their pulpits. The Church is not a man; someone so great at pointing out the obvious should clearly be able to see that. Nor does the Church sit idly by ignoring the failings of past men in her ranks. Clearly you can read, so maybe you could peruse some current, relevant articles on the matter. And yes, implying that the Church teaches, promotes, advocates or accepts such deplorable acts is both bigoted and ignorantly ill-informed. I thought atheists were supposed to be champions of freethinking, not false witness? Thanks for correcting my belief.

If you care to understand the failings of men, meditate on the sins of Adam, Cain, Abraham, David, and especially Judas Iscariot. For the sake of argument, if you believed in an all-knowing God, does logic not tell you that He knew what these people would do but used them as an example of the failings of men anyway, both pre- and post-Church establishment, in an effort to signify those who would try to infiltrate yet fail (Judas)? And yet, Judas’ office was filled, apostolic succession was implemented, the primacy of Peter was obvious, and the Church remains, despite the failures of men.

Also, while I did apologize for my haste, why should I apologize for an accurate conclusion? And yes, I admit that many men and women have failed the Church. The Church, however, has not failed us. Hence the 2,000 year old unchanged doctrine, dogmas and theology. Some of us prefer an unchanging truth, some an evolving truth. But by nature, only one is the Truth.

Comment 7

Bruce,

I started off saying you were in it for the wrong reasons based on your own words. That doesn’t mean you didn’t believe you were in it for the right reasons (that would be a character attack), but whatever those reasons were, look where they led you. Which doesn’t mean you can’t be led back, but your present circumstances are what they are. I make no judgement of your apostasy, heresies or blasphemies; that’s for you and God to sort out. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

And while I appreciate SGL’s heartfelt approach to “help” me with his ad hominem laced sarcasm, I’m clearly not the one heading or following some sort of self-help group; not my thing. I prefer to surround myself with those who challenge and build me up, not wallow with me in the various miseries of life. But hey, to each his own. Here’s looking at you, SGL:

“Frank, honest, open, and passionate discussion about religion, Christianity, and Evangelicalism is encouraged and welcome. However, I do expect atheists not to attack, badger, or denigrate people who still believe in God.”

I appreciate that you’ve read Hahn, Merton, Day and the Church Fathers, but again, I didn’t know that until I was not-so-gently corrected. No need to get your feelers wrapped around the axle. I guess my actual assumption would be that you didn’t comprehend them. Which is correct based on your current view of things. Here’s a more approachable response:

“Jaisen, I invite you to check out this blog and this article and this book about why I’ve come to said conclusions. Perhaps they’ll shed a little light on my reasons, past and present. If you ever have the hankering to walk away from your faith, the doors of atheism are always open to you.”

(See, you wouldn’t have sounded like such a bigoted, closed-minded, crotchety old internet warrior that way, and we might have pursued a somewhat meaningful dialogue.)

I never once said anything about “my one true church”. I don’t prescribe to such Protestant personalization lingo (neither does the Bible). The Church isn’t mine. Jesus isn’t mine. Salvation isn’t mine. They belong to everyone. So I guess one of us truly is big on assumptions, but it isn’t me, my friend. I invited you to explore and experience “the” Church; her doors are open to all.

Now if I wanted to engage someone on the theological or financial practices of the church, it wouldn’t be with someone who has no grasp or comprehension of her place in the world and how she came to be. Personally, I prefer solid food to milk. But if I wanted to discuss megachurches bashing opulent palaces from the pulpit, all the while surrounded by endless empty rooms on weekdays with all the homeless in their cities, multi-millionaire televangelists, and prosperity preachers applying their teaching to the people of Ethiopia, then maybe I’d ask you. Surely you have something insightful to say about such practices after so many years being surround by or included in those groups. However, I have no need of discussing such fruitless institutions because common sense tells me they are just that.

Nor do I prescribe to such fallacious logic as equal rights for gays when they’ve had the same right to marry as the rest of us all along: one woman, one man. It’s their choice not to do so. I refuse to advocate such relativistic ideas of murdering your own children before they take their first breath, or going against God’s will to procreate by urging young women to unnaturally poison themselves with a pill a day while preaching against polluting “Mother Earth.” I’ve never been a fan of such hypocrisies, especially cheering on science that promotes things it can’t objectively verify or recreate (evolution, the Big Bang, the gay gene, etc.) while overtly deriding and denying biological science that clearly shows life begins at conception, as well as how the climate changes and there isn’t squat we can do about it. (Duh.) Not to mention being a self-professed liberal, socialist father of someone with Down Syndrome, two ideologies that openly advocate dismembering such persons before b
irth. But it’s a free country, you can put your “faith” in whatever you like and still call yourself a “freethinker”.

As for women in the priesthood, I follow the teachings and the precedents set by Jesus and his Apostles, as does the Church. As I said in my original post about orthodoxy and orthopraxy, it can be found in one place, which is why I’m there. I went searching for right teaching and right practice just like you. I found them. My faith is bigger than mere misinterpreted symbolism or junk science. You’re always welcome to come experience it as well, but I find it’s best experienced without the litany of pretexts.

As a side note, to know who you are you have to embrace where you come from:

“Unfortunately, there are many people, Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians in particular, who have a hard time playing well with others. They often use a passive-aggressive approach towards me and the non-Christian people who frequent this blog. This kind of behavior will not be tolerated and will result in a permanent ban.”

Also:

“Please do not confuse my directness and pointedness with me attacking you or your religion. This is a grown-up blog, so crying that I offended you or “attacked” your religion will fall on deaf ears.”

Should I petition you to ban yourself from this blog, or should I just take the personal attacks and denigration of my faith (shit, as you call it) from you and your like-minded, dictator-like followers…like a grown-up?

Comment 8

Hey, that’s fine if you don’t want to publish my comments there, Dear Leader. If I were in your shoes I’d hate for my readers to see me get owned by a guy who’s only been a Catholic for two weeks, too. Gotta love you socialist liberals with your vast open-mindedness, tolerance and hate of censorship (or is that just libertarians?). You can even smell the hypocrisy through the internet!

Comment 9

Dale,

Thanks for your comment. Clearly you’re confused. First, I’m not an adherent to Islam who’s goal is to return the entire world to the 7th century (the Stone Age). Second, easy on the Sci-Fi channel, buddy. Seriously, those are some interesting and imaginative, dare I say child-like ideas you shared, but none of them go together. Third, I’m not sure what the average reading comprehension level is for Bruce’s reader’s, but the last thing I was trying to do was evangelize him or help him “re-beleive”. I simply stated that if he ever had a desire to know Jesus again (see my original post), the doors of the Catholic Church would always be open to him. Personally, I went to Mass several times without reverencing the cross or the Eucharist, so I know from personal experience that you can explore an idea without adhering to it. I like to call that “open-mindedness”. It’s a crazy concept, I know. Fourth, perhaps you could write an expose on liberals politicizing and institutionalizing religious matters to fit their skewed versions of Christ’s teachings, aka, relativism, and how that isn’t a legitimate form of Christianity. Finally, I’m actually a big fan of Santa Claus. Not the man as you know him to be though, but as Saint Nicholas, the guy who punched the first heretic in the face at the First Council of Nicaea in a.d. 325. Ah, the good old days!

Comment 10

Yeah, Bruce. You really got me! Glad I could expose you and your self-glorifying narcissistic need for censorship to prove your tolerance and open-minded enlightenment. Ban me, delete my posts as you said you would. As of right now you can’t even stick to that promise. Seriously, don’t flatter yourself anymore than you have already. It’s really just gross at this point. Enjoy your isolation, but do try to pull your head out to take a breath once in a while. It makes it much easier to “play well” with the grown-ups. ; )

Comment 11

Becky,

You get what you give. Please do point me to where I said I knew “the TRUE church” or where I tried to convince Brucey Bruce of his error. Best of luck with that. Do enjoy Mr. Goebbels’ censored blog. (If you’re reading this, he thinks he got me again. They’re so cute at that age.)

Love,
The truth hurts

Comment 12

Instructive? Well in that case, you’re welcome. It’s flattering to know you’re patiently waiting to approve or delete my comments so you can say, “Aha, gotcha.” It’s almost…biblical.

Comment 13

SGL,

Well-played there, Saul Alynski. “Oh no! Someone has different values than us, we have to destroy them to show them how much more open-minded we are than them!” Silly hypocrites.

Comment 14

Nothing different than a heterosexual marriage? Well, besides the fact that there’ll be no communion with God later on or any procreation (a commandment, not a suggestion), there’s also zero complimentarity. Sure, it fits. But that doesn’t mean you should stick it there. Apply that logic to a cigar cutter sometime.

And clearly, the difference between attending a Hindu marriage and a same-sex “marriage” is that homosexuals aren’t trying to change the definition of a Hindu marriage, which is why it’s a direct attack on Christian marriage. One would think someone who spent 25 years in ministry could understand such a simple concept. But I guess that explains why you’re no longer there.

But seriously, how much more demeaning to women and human life could it be? Seriously, a vagina that brings forth another human being is somehow EQUAL to some guy’s stinky anus? You’d have to be a real nut job liberal to believe that garbage.

However, if you prefer wiping someone else’s excrement off of your manhood even though you courteously gave them an enema beforehand, more power to you. That’s your business. Just don’t pretend you’re something you’re not or that marriage is yours to profane. Being a homosexual doesn’t make you a sinner, nor is it any different than any other sin. It’s the act of sticking your penis in another man’s stink hole that makes you a sinner. Go try that BS with Islamic marriage and find out who the real bigots are when they toss your ass off the top of a building or hang you in a public square.

Comment 15

Bruce Almighty,

While I enjoy giving you something to do, I do not appreciate you polluting my comments. You may be the dictator of this blog, but when your precious liberal government takes over the internet that’s all gonna change, mister.

All jokes aside, yep, that’s the man I am. Speaking the ugly truth no matter how bad it may be. Nothing I said is untrue. Sure, the wording is a bit colorful, but I was just taking it down to the level of the playing field that I’m on. It’s a great way to avoid being called a lying, censoring, hypocrite. Which is much more than I can say for yourself, Mr. Goebbels.

Comment 16

Beckers,

Please step down from your hypocritically judgmental high horse and explain for me how describing the birds and bees of homosexuality (or rather the birds and the birds) is mean, hateful and vicious. Perhaps I could show you the aftermath of an abortion and you could say the same thing about me while highfiving the abortionist who did it. That’d be rich.

Comment 17

Beckers,

You do understand how the homosexual act works, right? The penis is repeatedly inserted into the place only meant for removing bacteria ridden human waste, and then they say, “Love is love!” And poof, a unicorn is born 9 months later.

But seriously, from the female perspective, how do you feel about so many people like Brucey Bruce who devalue your female anatomy and worth by proclaiming your vagina to be equal to a man’s anal sphincter? Do you agree or disagree with them?

(Bruce, don’t act like you didn’t at least giggle a tiny bit before you went all Goebbels on this comment.)

Nice skunk analogy. This blog smells like hypocritical censorship and someone who speaks from experience. That would actually explain a lot about Dear Leader’s homosexual devotion. How about a blog explaining what it’s like being part of the 54%, Brucinda?

Comment 18

Bruce,

Of course you hate Jesus. You spent 25 years as a false teacher imitating John Calvin instead of Him, dishonoring His mother and denying the divinity of His body and blood. Reinventing the wheel and recreating His image without any authority, and then wondering why it didn’t work out. And then it’s supposed to be some great surprise that you “lost the faith” and that other “fundies” act exactly as you do now, only still attached to the evangelical mold that you propagated for so long. Is it really a great surprise to you that you were filled with grace at baptism (the other two didn’t count by the way, clearly), only to watch that grace diminish over the years through your denial of the priesthood, confession and Eucharist, leading to this obvious and glaring state in which you find yourself? It’s clear as day to me. Even the demons believe and shutter. Yet even still your pride reigns in you, the same pride that yelled at Catholocism from the pulpit for years now yells hysterically, “You’re attacking my character!” That same pride that led you away from Jesus tells you that you know who He is now better than ever and you’re going to pollute everyone else’s idea of Him, just from a different pulpit. All the while pretending it’s not your intention to tear down anyone else’s faith. Can you smell the hypocrisy? Pride truly is the root of all evil. However, the only unforgivable sin is to go to your grave denying the Trinity and all that it entails, not the sin of homosexuality (another false teaching you no doubt helped to spread). As I said before, the doors are always open to you. Grace can always be restored. You may hate the Jesus that you helped create, but the real Jesus still loves you.

P.S. This Jesus you speak of sounds a lot like every liberal and socialist of the Democratic Party. Which reminds me, aren’t you all three?

Comment 19

Nothing I said was vitriolic, Bruce. If the truth is vitriolic to you, then maybe a good dose of self-examination is in order. *Pro-tip: We do that before receiving the sacrament of reconciliation.

Comment 20

Yeah Bruce, I’m no match for your ability to press a “delete comment” or “ban user” button on the internets! Your intellectual prowess is far too superior for the likes of me! My prayers go out to those questioning or doubting folks who stumble upon your snares. And of course I keep reading; even Catholics need entertainment! I rather enjoy your reverse-shaming tactics–they teach you that trick at seminary?

Comment 21

Carmen,

“And you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I am going to vomit you from my mouth.”

Comment 22

Poor fella, those buttons aren’t working anymore. Here’s an idea, instead of hiding behind your keyboard, how about addressing the points I made? No? Well…I guess that’s just the kind of man you are! You’ve brought shame upon your fundamental atheist church, good sir! Sound familiar?

Comment 23

Careful, Bruce. Carmen might call you nasty. She’d probably call you a coward as well if she could see the rest of my comments which you so conveniently delete. Super comeback, by the way. Way to bring your A-game.

Comment 24

To be clear, are you referring to what assholes do at the physiological level, or at the more emotional, liberal worldview? I’m sure you’ll have a great answer as you’ve clearly cornered that market.

Comment 25

Oh, I get it. You only want to have a dialogue with people who think at your level. No room for dissent or alternate opinions. Roger that. Enjoy your “open-minded, free-thinker” society. Or would that be “me-thinker”? Doesn’t matter. Have a hypocritical day!

Comment 26

Aww, Beckers. Bruce is pretending he’s open-minded while deleting my comments, editing them to make him look smarter, etc., aka, hypocritical to free thought. I never said anyone was lost on here in any of my comments, but hey, you stated the problem there when you said, “I have to assume that…” While you’re welcome to your assumptions and putting words in my mouth, it doesn’t make your assertions any less false. It’s really just par for the course at this point. Bruce’s opinion of how Christians should act is not only irrelevant, it’s also the reason why so many leave: We’re not called to be pandering, politically correct, over-feminized beta-males who won’t stand up for the teachings of Christ. THAT is why so many people lose their faith, because it simply does not work that way. Bruce will delete this comment because he doesn’t want any of those questioning and doubting folks to wonder onto his blog and find somebody actually saying something that makes sense. That’d be bad for business.

Comment 27

The Bruce does not like to appear too predictable, so the Bruce abides.

Comment 28

Exciting! Will this upcoming post be about how the judgmental Dear Leader doesn’t like to be questioned or challenged?! Or about how if you stop by Bruce’s corner of the internet to invite him to your church and wish him well you’ll be derided and disparaged (against Dear Leader’s comment rules I might add)?! I’ve yet to see your thoughtful reply to Mr. Ed up top addressing his heresies and omission of Matthew 28:19; will it be about how I should undermine my own convictions by respecting the heresies of others?! I’m sure whatever the topic it’ll be super intellectually stimulating without a thread of truth about anything I’ve said, or the fact that I’ve simply responded to you and your antagonizing readers with the same lack of respect shown me. Not to mention any attempt to correct you (you REALLY hate that!) or your libel will show up as “Comment Deleted.” Can’t wait!

*The sarcasm in this comment is in no way an endorsement of the author of this blog’s hypocritical views of other’s convictions.

Comment 29

Bruce. Wow. You’ve figured me out. I didn’t know you were such a huge fan of my work on the Daily Show. I’m flattered! And what is with the truck driver comments?

But seriously, you like to point fingers and accuse me of things I haven’t done. I may have been a bit frank with you, but let’s be honest, you get what you put out there. Yes, I was very much surprised at your first reply to me as I was very polite; hardly a pulling down of the pants and claiming imminent domain on your living room floor. I also thought I was interacting with an adult who might have some interesting insights based on where you’ve been and where you are now. I even had a couple of theological questions, exercises as you call them, that I was hoping to throw your way regardless of your position. You can’t pretend you’re all polite and thoughtful based on your initial reply to me and breaking your own blog rules by allowing others to attack me; your actions speak otherwise.

I never said anyone was wrong or attempted to push my views on others. Anything definitive I’ve said towards you was meant solely for you. Clearly it doesn’t take much to rile you up, which was the goal. As I said, you get what you put out there. Sure, I could’ve just been the better man and let your childish, libelous comments stand alone. I probably should have because it’s been a colossal waste of time typing out responses only to have them deleted so that you can control the narrative and paint me to be the foot stomping fundamentalist beating up on the atheist.

Sure, I’d love to have a meaningful dialogue with Ed about unitarianism as it’s not something I’ve ever studied. Or with David, to explain the empty facade you’ve created for me. Both of them seem like reasonable human beings. However, you are Bruce and you are god of this here blog and unless you agree with what’s being said and how it’s being said, it’s not happening. So what would be the point in trying, am I right?

And to answer your question, I respect the office of the Pope, and yes, I do respect the current Pope. I doubt he has time to worry with the thoughts and actions of every individual in the world, but as you can clearly see by glancing over your comments section, he wouldn’t be able to read my comments in context: You’ve deleted most of them, creating a pretext. So your point is moot. The Pope doesn’t claim to be the thought police as so many anti-Catholics claim anyhow. Hell, he’d have to battle with you for that position!

Let’s ask you a similar question. I assume you respect your Catholic children? I wonder if they read your comments about their faith what they would think? I wonder if they’d think you’re the polite and thoughtful interfaith communicator you claim to be? I suspect they’d be disappointed to say the least.

No hard feelings, Bruce. I wish you well, too. As I said at the end of my very first post, may God bless you on your journey. (And yes, I know it’s silly to you because you don’t believe in God, but that doesn’t make Him any less real for me or the billions who think otherwise.)

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21 Comments

  1. Ami

    Jesus H. Christ.

    Reply
  2. Matt Martin

    Presumably after his next examination of conscience, Jaisen will realise he’s committed the sin of detraction and admit so to his confessor.

    Reply
  3. Becky Wiren

    I read through all those comments and all I could get wasn’t the truth of the Catholic church, but how swell-headed Jaisen is. I have Catholic family members and friends, and they represent what is good about the Catholic church. But if Jaisen was the only Catholic I knew, I would run, as far and as fast, to get away from him as a representative of Catholicism.

    Reply
  4. Geoff

    Jaisen has several issues coming through in his comments, none of which reflect well on him or the catholic church. Indeed his comments are full of ignorance and bigotry, but he does have the ability to write reasonably coherently, so covering these defects.

    1. The catholic church has itself re-written the bible, contrary to his claims of 2000 years of history, to bring Mary to a prominence never suggested. In many ways the church has elevated her status to a point where it’s now the holy quartet, not trinity. Indeed, in Spain for example, she seems revered almost more than Jesus. This development is relatively recent and was brought about for political reasons.
    2. Mary has now even herself achieved the feat of having been immaculately conceived, based solely on the delusional ravings of a servant girl, enabling the church to sink yet deeper into its perverse relationship to anything sexual.
    3. Denial of evolution is just plain stupid in someone supposedly educated. The evidence in favour of evolution is now so vast that denial is seen as largely pointless by apologists, even the catholic curch itself accepting it.
    4. Abortion and the beginning of life is not necessarily a matter of biology.
    5. To continue to encourage people to avoid artificial birth control is irresponsible and will continue to worsen the plight of many of the poorest in the world.
    6. Why do so many religious people obsess so about the details of homosexuality. Whether Jaisen likes it or not, it’s almost exclusively the way they are born, so by his account that’s the way god created them. Even the catholic church seems to be shifting its position towards the inevitable (as it always does) and becoming more accepting of gays.
    7. As with gays, women priests will come. It may yet be sometime but there is an inevitability about the process.
    8. I notice Jaisen makes no reference to the countless billions the church has had to pay out, especially in the US, in settlement of abuse claims. If catholic priests weren’t required to be celibate these problems would be far less frequent. Why are they required to be celibate? Because otherwise they’d have heirs, to whom their estates would devolve rather than, as now, the church.

    Reply
  5. Karen

    Wow. I confess I didn’t make it all the way through the comments. This person is breathtakingly full of himself. I hope he can grow up a bit someday.

    The Catholic Church I grew up in (US West Coast, 1960s and 1970s) had a lot of good features. It was quite liberal on many issues and extremely concerned for social justice. The Catholic nuns who taught me in school insisted the Christian’s mission was to “do for the least of these”. They certainly didn’t disagree publicly on any Church teaching, but they spent a whole lot more time talking about systemic poverty and racial disparity than they did about abortion. We even had semi-comprehensive sex education; each method of birth control was carefully explained, along with why the Church opposed it. The unspoken subtext was that if you were going to sin, at least do it sensibly.

    I don’t think Jaisen would have liked that church much.

    Reply
  6. Zoe

    Yikes!

    Reply
  7. Jack

    His comments appear to be typical. I read patheos.com and the Catholic Channel quite a bit. They appear to be as bad as most of Evangelicals. Here’s a good example: How Protestant Fundamentalism Destroys Christianity. It’s as though they don’t recognize their own fundamentalism.

    Reply
  8. John Arthur

    Hi Bruce,

    I couldn’t get through all his comments. He reminds me of Matt. Jason is right, everyone else is wrong. he just has no idea what his attitude to others does to promote his faith. Flee the faith. A compassionate atheism is preferable any day, compared to his attitude.

    Shalom,

    John Arthur

    Reply
  9. Troy

    His accusation of censorship is absurd. This is Bruce’s blog, bought and paid for, your roof, your rules. If he wants he can always start his own blog.

    Reply
  10. gimpi1

    Wow… that was… interesting. Interesting in the, “May you live in interesting times,” as a curse. That sort of interesting.

    Reply
  11. Michael Mock

    Good call, Bruce. I think Jaisen’s own words do more to damage his cause than anything the rest of us can say in response.

    Reply
  12. Connie

    Jaisen kept insisting someone answer the points he made but the only thing I heard loud and clear is jaisen is correct, no matter what is said jaisen has the answer.

    Did anyone else find a real question?

    Reply
  13. Len Koz

    Thank you for blocking this @ssh01e. I already had regrets about growing up Catholic, he reminded me why I would never go back to them.

    Reply
  14. khughes1963

    Jason’s egotism is rather overpowering.

    Reply
  15. Carmen

    Bruce,

    I think it’s important that you showed us this character’s comments – they’re very informative. You see, ordinary people need to be shown clearly what goes on in the mind of a zealot and his comments illustrate this quite clearly. One can see the anger/angst this person holds (I’d venture to guess he has very low self-esteem), the judgemental tirades against anyone who thinks differently than he does, the condemnation of anyone he feels is unworthy of understanding, and the absolute disregard for those who mount a persuasive argument against his vitriol.

    It’s a fairly short leap to understanding why religious fanatics fly airplanes into buildings.

    So I say, keep the fool spouting his verbal diarrhea!

    Reply
  16. Angiep

    He claims to be a speed reader because he needs to save time, yet he seems to spend an awful lot of time baiting people into arguments, knowing they will be diametrically opposed to his opinions. Thank you, Bruce for blocking him. The last thing this web site needs is to be bogged down with garbage. Meanwhile I do enjoy hearing from your other readers.

    Reply
  17. Gene

    One of the things that caused me to leave evangelical Christianity was the realization of how many of the most despicable people I have known in my life were evangelical Christians. Jason is a prime example. He would probably tell me that I find him despicable because he loves Jesus and the unsaved people like me hate Jesus. No, I find Jason despicable because he is a total asshole.

    Reply
  18. Brian

    Oh Jaisen, fuck off!

    Reply
  19. Michael Mock

    “Speaking the ugly truth no matter how bad it may be.”

    You know, there’s a profound difference between speaking the truth in love, and speaking the truth in arrogance — and every time I see someone protest that they’re only doing the former, it’s precisely because what they’re actually doing is the latter. If they were genuinely speaking the truth in love, they wouldn’t have to justify it.

    Jaisen prides himself on his honesty, I think. Trouble is, he’s mistaken certainty for honesty. Honesty accepts that our knowledge is necessarily incomplete and that we might be mistaken, and works from there. Certainty, on the other hand, only comes prepared to correct other people’s errors and set them straight.

    Reply
    1. Brian

      Wow, that is beautifully expressed, Michael. Had I the finesse you display, I would have surely followed my FUCK OFF with words as wonderful as yours… thank-you for being here. It is very hard to be accepting of uncertainty when certainty has been your memory work for life. When you achieve doubt quite naturally and experience uncertainty, it is not hard anymore and feels balanced, like science is balanced and allows new probabilities to replace previous ones that have been shown as less robust. Religion does not use a scientific method to improve itself. It says: Jesus is the truth or Mohammed is the final messenger or you-name-it, THE END.
      What a wonderful song it is to move past that cul de sac…

      Reply
  20. Jerri

    Dude needs a new hobby. Can’t he build model cars or collect stamps or something?

    I can’t imagine getting so obsessed with something. “But, look at ME! Over here! Look! Aren’t I so amazing?” Stalk much?

    That’s the kind of person I think could be a serial killer or something. I’m creeped out.

    Reply

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