Several days ago, I published a post titled How to be an Online Evangelical Christian Apologist by Tim Sledge. Here’s what Tim, a Southern-Baptist-preacher-turned-unbeliever, had to say about online Evangelical apologists:
- Above all else, remember this: You are right. They are wrong. You are coming from a superior position. You have God on your side. They don’t.
- Never, never think about the possibility that you might sound arrogant and condescending when you keep asserting that God has led you to the real truth.
- Accept uncritically and parrot the answers well-known Christian apologists give about challenges to belief. Never check these things out for yourself.
- Do not listen to ex-Christians when they tell you why they left and how life feels after leaving faith. Turn off all curiosity about an ex-believer’s life experiences. Listen only to what the Bible tells you about why people leave and how it feels to them when they leave. This enables you to know more about how their lives feel than they do.
- Always assume that individuals who never believed will be immediately convinced when you quote Bible verses as proof of your beliefs.
- Ignore the feedback of ex-believers when you are quoting Bible verses to convince them, and they tell you you’re quoting verses they memorized or quoted when they were believers.
- When someone surprises you by responding with a Bible passage that disagrees with your position, tell them they are not interpreting the passage correctly.
- If you find out that an ex-believer has studied the Bible more than you, confidently assert they were never a true believer and consequently all their study was in vain.
- If all your arguments fail, attack the character of the person who disagrees with you! Tell this individual that there’s no way his/her life can have meaning, and there’s no way s/he can live any kind of moral life. Top it off with the warning: “You’ll be sorry when you burn in hell!” And be sure to convey that you see that destiny as a just reward.
- Remember that you’re not just an apologist for Christianity, you’re also an apologist for your brand of Christianity. Confront Christians whose theology is different from yours with the same intensity that characterizes your confrontations with atheists.
Funny stuff; sarcastic; not meant to be taken literally; a tongue-in-cheek jab at online Evangelical apologists. One online apologist, Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Theissen, thought these ten points were spot on. Why, he said AMEN, Brother Sledge, all the way from a basement somewhere in the Philippines.
Here’s what Thiessen had to say:
Thiessen: There is nothing wrong with using the internet to further the kingdom of God but be careful as the rules of God still apply when you are a keyboard warrior In the following article, we are going to address 10 steps another believer has compiled to help other Christians be online warriors [that was not the unbelieving Sledge’s intention.].
Sledge: #1. Above all else, remember this: You are right. They are wrong. You are coming from a superior position. You have God on your side. They don’t.
Thiessen: This is true but with some caveats. You are right if you make sure you have the truth and do not assume you have it. Also, God is with us as long as you do not sin in your online work. Plus, Christians do not come from a superior position. We come from a humble one grateful that God has saved us and set us free from sin.
Sledge: #2. Never, never think about the possibility that you might sound arrogant and condescending when you keep asserting that God has led you to the real truth.
Thiessen: Sounding arrogant is not the same as being arrogant. What unbelievers do not understand is that once Christians have found the truth, they do not have to struggle or search for it. We have the truth and need to speak it in Biblical love. If it sounds arrogant or condescending to the unbeliever, that is because they come from a different viewpoint and they are deceived into thinking they are correct. [In other words, if I sound like a Christian asshole, that’s because unbelievers such as Bruce Gerencser are deceived.] However, some Christians are arrogant and condescending but that can be fixed with God’s help. This accusation is one where the unbeliever ignores the fact that they are arrogant and condescending when they trash the beliefs of Christians. It is a hypocritical complaint.
Sledge: #3. Accept uncritically and parrot the answers well-known Christian apologists give about challenges to belief. Never check these things out for yourself.
Thiessen: There is nothing wrong with this IF the well-known Christian apologist speaks the truth. We do not have to search for new information because the truth is the truth. You cannot expand on the truth. The only issue here is for those parroting Christians to make sure they have heard the truth. Just like the Bereans did in Acts. Once you confirm it as the truth, speak it all the time when it is appropriate to mention it. Just do not go into falsehood because the unbeliever will get upset. We are to speak the truth at all times.
Sledge: #4. Do not listen to ex-Christians when they tell you why they left and how life feels after leaving the faith. Turn off all curiosity about an ex-believer’s life experiences. Listen only to what the Bible tells you about why people leave and how it feels to them when they leave. This enables you to know more about how their lives feel than they do.
Thiessen: Ex-Christians have left the truth and are very vulnerable to the work of evil. As we have found over the years, the ex-Christians blame everyone else for their decisions except those most responsible for it– themselves and evil. While a few of them may have legitimate concerns, most are not. We have visited and read ex-pastor and ex-Christian websites and have seen them blame God and everyone else for their departure. Most of the time, they are at fault and not the church or Christians. The latter are just excuses for their decisions and the real problem is that the ex-Christian just does not want to follow God’s rules anymore.
….
Sledge: #5. Always assume that individuals who never believed will be immediately convinced when you quote Bible verses as proof of your beliefs.
Thiessen: This is the first legitimate complaint on this list. Many Christians do have this attitude. They forget that you have to plant, then water, and then finally harvest. Evangelism is a process and it starts with the Christian being a Christian to all people.
….
Sledge: #6. Ignore the feedback of ex-believers when you are quoting Bible verses to convince them, and they tell you you’re quoting verses they memorized or quoted when they were believers.
Thiessen: Nothing wrong with doing that. The verses are still true and it doesn’t matter if the ex-believer memorized them before they left the faith or not. What is important is that the ex-believer did not listen to those verses or implemented them in their lives. Their feedback only tells you this and their feedback should be ignored. They do not have the truth of those scriptures anymore and they are using this knowledge as a defense against the truth. In reality, they are ignoring what you are saying by using this defensive tactic. But we need to be careful of quoting scripture to ex-believers as they will trod the truth and pearls under their feet. [And they will also scoop up our bullshit and feed it back to us, one spoon at a time.[
Sledge: #7. When someone surprises you by responding with a Bible passage that disagrees with your position, tell them they are not interpreting the passage correctly.
Thiessen: Many Christians are surprised but generally, the ex-believer or unbeliever does not understand the passage correctly. The Bible does not contradict itself and every verse works together. When the unbeliever or ex-believer makes these quotes, they do not understand the Bible or how it is applied. Usually, they are interpreting the bible according to their sinful and subjective viewpoint and not using God’s objective view to get the right message. The Spirit of Truth is not with those who do not believe even if they were once believers. They do not know the truth. You can by following the Spirit of Truth to the truth. Then do not depart from the truth because someone uses the Bible against you and your knowledge.
Sledge: #8. If you find out that an ex-believer has studied the Bible more than you, confidently assert they were never a true believer and consequently, all their study was in vain
Thiessen: Yes, if they are an ex-believer, all of their biblical studies were in vain. The reason for saying that is that with all the knowledge and experience with Jesus they had, they still quit on Jesus. There is no other way to put it. They will not get to heaven just because they studied and memorized the bible. They gave up their salvation when they left the faith and that action makes all their previous work in vain. Whether they were a true believer or not should be left up to God to decide. We have to deal with the issues that confront us and not make judgments on their spiritual lives prior to their leaving the faith. Also, just because they studied the Bible more than you did does not mean they know or understand the Bible better than you. They no longer have the truth even if they are quoting scriptures. They threw everything away when they left the faith. No unbeliever or ex-believer can tell you the truth of what God’s word says. Even if they have a doctorate in biblical studies. [He’s talking about Dr. Bart Ehrman. Thiessen thinks he knows more about the Bible than all the unsaved scholars in the world — past and present.]
Sledge: #9. If all your arguments fail, attack the character of the person who disagrees with you! Tell this individual that there’s no way his/her life can have meaning, and there’s no way s/he can live any kind of moral life. Top it off with the warning: “You’ll be sorry when you burn in hell!” And be sure to convey that you see that destiny as a just reward.
Thiessen: Never attack the other person. Address their arguments and show them the error in their thinking. BUT NEVER attack the other person. You will notice that the only people Jesus insulted or attacked were the religious leaders of his time. But those attacks were also meant to be a lesson and an example to us as to how NOT to be. It was never permission to attack anyone who disagrees with us. believe it or not, most unbelievers already know they are going to hell, you do not need to remind them of that fact. As for ‘meaning and morality’, the unbeliever thinks they can be moral or have meaning as their definition of those aspects of life is different from the Christian. Many unbelievers who became Christians have stated that they did not have meaning in their lives before becoming Christians. [You might want to practice what you preach, Derrick. Dare I republish the nasty, hateful emails you sent me?]
….
Sledge: #10 Remember that you’re not just an apologist for Christianity, you’re also an apologist for your brand of Christianity. Confront Christians whose theology is different from yours with the same intensity that characterizes your confrontations with atheists.
Thiessen: Always speak the truth. When you speak the truth it doesn’t matter if they are claiming ot be a Christian or an unbeliever, they cannot do anything against it. There is only one truth and only one true Christian faith [mine]. When you work for Christ on the internet or anywhere else, you are to bring the true Christian faith and the only truth. It does not matter if other denominations disagree with you, the truth [as interpreted by me] is the truth no matter what.
….
Thiessen: In conclusion, when you do your online Christian work, make sure to do it in a manner that is glorifying to God. Not just that you think it is glorifying to God but that it actually is accomplishing that objective.
Thiessen: All points quoted above came from the article How to be an Online Evangelical Christian Apologist by Tim Sledge on the website we no longer link to. [In other words, I steal content from Bruce Gerencser’s website without providing proper attribution.]
Thiessen: We saw that there was a response to our article yesterday and as usual our English nemesis fille dit with distortions, etc. it is not worth responding to as it seeks to deflect the truth.
I wonder who Thiessen was talking about in his post? That’s a rhetorical question, by the way. If he is not talking about the Evangelical-preacher-turned- atheist Bruce Gerencser, he is talking about his other nemesis, Ben Berwick, AKA the English Meerkat. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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When he said that you shouldn’t attack the person, I couldn’t help but recall the comments left that called me an idiot and a liar, and for that matter, the post where he called me/implied I was a murderer (where he then removed his apology, but didn’t retract it, whatever that’s supposed to mean).
Methinks he doth need to practice what he preaches.
Tee has selective amnesia. 🤣
Tee can write whatever he wants in his blog but he can’t defend his views outside of it. He claims claims that he, and only he, has access to the truth, but the reality is that he has no means of assessing that what he believes is true. In short, his philosophical toolbox is empty.
Tee carries a big burden: all the wisdom and knowledge that most humans don’t have. Or he’s arrogant beyond belief. Having extensively read his writing, I can tell you his understanding of Christian theology is lacking or grossly distorted. I’m convinced that he is just making it up as he goes.
“Or he’s arrogant beyond belief.”
That’s how he came across in that post.
“I’m convinced that he is just making it up as he goes.”
Perfect. I sometimes define “theology” as the fine art of making up stuff as you go along.
Neil—I think it was Robert Heinlein who wrote that theology bears the same relationship to God that history does to the truth—which is to say, none to speak of.
The ont thing Mr T got right was to NOT ATTACK other people. Yet I recall reading his attacks of Bruce and Ben so I question what he considers to be an attack.
I really thought that original apologist post was satire.
Obstacle—I was thinking the same thing. “Tee,” however attacks Bruce every time he posts.
Karen—You we’re expecting self-awareness, let alone a satire detector, from “Tee?”
I sure fell bad for the people of the Philippines, who are forced into hosting Tee Hee. For a few decades now, they’ve been deluged by all sorts of religious cults and cranks from America. Under duress already from the Marcos clan, and recently, the violent and frightful Duterte, grinding Catholic poverty, there’s the added insult of the above !! Who could ever take this T- bone seriously ? It’s in spite of such ding- dongs one can remain a Christian,if anything ! This is why the churches are emptying out- all these kooks ! Last night I was looking up Puritan chaplains on slave ships,and their direct role in the slave trade. In their own words,rather than scholars or researchers. I hold Europe and the Doctrine of Discovery for twisting the creed into something toxic. It’s still an active legal document,by the way. I had no idea in school about any of these things. The local tribes in New England were enslaved by the Puritans in large numbers. It sure makes one think ! And, how on Earth did the Pilgrims and Puritans feel they could ignore the commands for Christian conduct in the New Testament ?? Virtually everything they did there contradicted definite instructions for what NOT to do- but they did it, didn’t they !!💀💀
Wow, talk about Theissen not only missing Sledge’s point, but having it whiz past him like a bullet. Serious lack of self-awareness.