Forrest Valkai is a frequent guest on shows produced by The Line and the Atheist Community of Austin. Valkai is a biologist, and when it comes to explaining complex science to mere mortals, he does an outstanding job. However, when it comes to Christianity, Valkai often makes claims he can’t support, such as claiming that preachers are in the ministry for the money. I have yet to see a fellow host correct Valkai’s false assertion, so I assume they have similar sentiments.
Are preachers really in the ministry for the money? I am sure some are, but most preachers believe God has called them to preach, and while they certainly need money to provide for their needs, making money is not their first priority. Remove megachurch pastors from the mix, and most preachers pastor congregations of 60-90 people and are bi-vocational. Preachers work outside of the churches they pastor because the congregations don’t pay them enough for them to make ends meet.
Most of the preachers I knew either struggled to make ends meet, worked part-time outside of the church, or were on social security or government assistance. I was in the ministry for twenty-five years, pastoring rural/small town churches that ranged in attendance from 50 to over 200. I was a full-time pastor for every church I pastored, but not one of them paid me a living wage, with benefits. This forced me to work outside of the church. Later in my ministerial career, Polly went back to work, easing the financial pressures we had been under for years.
Did I know any money-grubbing preachers? Of course, I did. I knew a few lazy-ass preachers who were in the ministry for the money. When looking for a new church to pastor, how much the congregation paid was their first priority. Money never mattered to me. I preached and ministered to people whether they paid me or not, and that included preaching revival meetings that cost me more in expenses than the church paid me. I never complained, though, to be honest, there were times I should have been clearer with congregations regarding my financial needs. I quickly learned that if I didn’t say anything, no raises would be forthcoming. In retrospect, I should have appointed a group of members who were responsible for setting my salary and benefits. Sadly, I was always hesitant to talk about money, and because I never mentioned it, church members thought everything was fine.
Granted, some of the churches I pastored couldn’t pay me a decent salary, with benefits. That never stopped me from being their pastor, but there were times when I thought congregations were taking advantage of me. I remember one church in West Virginia that wanted me to be their pastor. They were sitting on thousands of dollars, yet when I asked them to pay my moving expenses, the church board said they could only pay half. I told them that the church would have to pay all of my moving expenses. They eventually agreed, but demanded that I only preach from the King James Bible. A King James-only family was outraged by my preaching from the English Standard Version (ESV). I declined, knowing that this KJV-only family would be trouble for me, and since the board wouldn’t stand up to them, I declined to be their pastor. They hired a retired pastor, instead; a man who wouldn’t rock the boat and would be happy with the meager salary the church paid.
Megachurch pastors and TV preachers deserve every bit of the criticism they receive. They have turned Christianity into a circus, a clown show. Some preachers makes millions of dollars from not only preaching, but from book and media sales. They also rake in loads of money holding conferences and revival meetings. But, these men and women do not represent most preachers, and atheists such as Forrest Valkai would do well to remember this. (And I know how much Valkai hates being painted with a broad brush.) By all means condemn and criticize their doctrine, but unless there’s evidence to the contrary, we should assume that most pastors are decent, hardworking clerics. I know I was, as were many of my colleagues in the ministry. I was dead wrong about what I believed and preached, but my motivations were pure. I sincerely wanted to help other people, and that desire remains to this day.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Bruce, this is an excellent response to a broad-brush accusatory claim about the motivations of folks who enter the ministry. I always admire the way you can honestly and respectfully disagree with religious beliefs but still respect the intentions of the person based on your own observation. If Forrest Valkai is making this broad claim, he should supply evidence to back it up, much like he would rightfully demand of a person who professes Christianity as an absolute all-encompassing belief system, 6,000 year old Earth and all.
The church I attended in my youth, an Assembly of God church in the suburbs of Cincinnati, started out as a relatively normal church building with a good sized congregation. I remember a nice ball field next to the church where we would play tag football, kickball, softball, etc. Our services were very traditional, and I have fond memories of this time in my life. But at some point in the mid-1980’s, it was decided we needed a big new addition onto the existing church. No more ball field- it was where the new building went, along with an expanded parking lot. This more than doubled the size of the church. And of course, money became more of the focus. We were reminded constantly that God wanted more than just “tithes”, but also offerings on top of that. It was even preached in Children’s church. The Pastor and his family lived in a decent house on the church property that was already there, and I never really heard much about what kind of salary he made. I do remember that he was a very engaging and decent man, who remembered my name even though he pastored a large congregation. He always found time to say hello, and ask how I was doing, and this helped me during a not so great time in my childhood. Even today, regardless of the salary and benefits he personally made, I feel he earned it. I say this just as a recollection of my own life. My current older cousin in rural southwest Ky doesn’t make much compared to what he actually does as an AOG Pastor. His life is literally his small church and the well-being of his congregation. I would say he has a decent but certainly not an extravagant standard of living. His happiness is not in money but in living the life he feels he was meant for. This is not at all meant to minimize the growing knowledge of abuse and atrocities we are learning about that were committed by many Pastors and Priests. These are just two examples I know of personally.
A decent religious minister can be there for folks who are in need of something that transcends our day to day life. These may be folks who are experiencing extreme grief over a loss, or guilt over a misdeed from long ago. Someone who wants to make things right but is afraid to take the first step. Can they replace a psychologist? No, but they can be there in the immediate moment a person just needs someone to talk to about the meaning of our existence. I have no doubt you filled this role several times, just as you are doing now for those who experienced the negative side of organized religion.
A former preacher trying to convince us that preachers aren’t in it for the money despite our life experience with them isn’t very convincing. EVERY preacher of any faith needs to go out and get a real job. You know the kind, that actually produce something of value instead of using fear and social condemnation to manipulate people into doing what they want which ALWAYS includes giving them money. Every preacher I’ve ever met was concerned with money, so, nice try, but no play.
In California, things are different, and pastors, ministers and ministries make LOTS of money! The rural South and Midwest must be in a different system, as money and political agendas are the main focus,as its ideal as a toll to control people and frighten them into compliance. Few of them have decent motives for entering this profession. The good ones really stand out.
“Radiant”, I’m also a person whose profession is frequently disparaged as dishonest and money grubbing. Such was the furthest from my conduct and I take exception to your overbroad characterization of anyone’s professional ethics, especially someone you don’t know. Some of us got into our professions out of a desire to do good and serve and our motives never changed. That being so, I submit, based on your post, which is all I know of you, you seem burdened by an overload of retained excreta. I recommend an extra high fibre diet for a few weeks to clear your head.
might clear your head.
Golly Radiant, I hadn’t realized that people like Franciscans, Dominicans and Augustinians are in it for the money. Thanks for enlightening me. /s
Well said. Money doesn’t always speak. I worked in government paleontology and nearly starved but, I would do it again if I were 50 years younger. Why ? Like you Bruce, it was an adventure ! And I never felt so alive ! And I worked with so many people from different cultures, ethnicities and sub specialties. People made the difference. I miss that.
A fair and reasonable explanation of financial realities and pastoring in many if not most communities Bruce.
While I have been scornful of Christianity I will admit in many communities, especially rural communities, church offered the opportunity for citizens to gather, learn, have fellowship, break bread and generally get to know each other. In fact I attribute these things to the tremendous draw of the church. Especially so in the early era of the U.S.
right up to the mid 20th century.
I suspect that Bruce and other preachers like him would have been social workers, therapists, healthcare professionals, teachers, professors or others in the “helping professions” had they not felt called to the ministry.
To be sure, there are some foe whom the (mega-) ministry is a nice racket. And some Catholic priests, while not paid a salary, have pretty plush lifestyles. But even though I have little good to say about organized religion in general (and survived sexual abuse by a priest) I don’t think it’s fair to paint all clergy members with the broad brush Radiant Mind wields.
I suppose the issue is that since religious persons are by definition credulous, there will always be hucksters that prey on such people. Your thesis is fundamentally correct: While there are good and bad pastors with a gamut of financial interests, most are at sincere (or were once sincere). I’d even include those that end up in infamy as they are disgraced in the annals of black collar crime as typically sincere believers and purveyors.
I have a considerable respect for pastors and would assert that their pay should be on par with either a semi-professional or professional in the demographic area in which their church congregation is located. This assumes that they are fully engaged in Pastoral duties such as visiting the sick, counseling, various rites, youth group.
I’d point out that a salary won’t be particularly low. If you’re a member of a church, then you should be paying a considerable weekly donation that is proportional to your income, and of course this donation isn’t just when you can get your butt out of bed on Sunday morning.