Bruce, Are You Settled on Your Beliefs About Christianity?— Part One

open to new evidence

I recently received a thoughtful, polite email from a Christian man named Levi. My response follows.

I’ve spent more time than I probably should admit reading through your blog to get a feel for how the project actually works on its own terms. One thing I keep circling back to is how your evidentiary standards function in practice, not just in principle.

You’re clear (and consistent) that extraordinary claims require strong justification. That’s a fair standard to set. But what I’m still trying to square away is how admissible justification seems to be doing a fair bit of work before the argument even starts. Historical inference, testimony, and philosophical reasoning are perfectly serviceable when reconstructing Roman governance, Jewish sectarianism, or early Christian belief formation. But when those same tools start pointing toward metaphysical conclusions you’ve already set aside, they seem to downgrade into just “mere claims.”

The Bible is a book of claims. Evangelicals quoting Bible verses at me seem to not understand this fact. If they want me to believe, Evangelicals are going to have to do much better than giving proof-texts from an errant, fallible, contradictory ancient religious text. Why should any of us consider the Bible authoritative?

It’s not that I need overwhelming evidence as much as I need sufficient evidence; evidence that I find compelling. Such evidence has not been forthcoming. All I get are the same, worn-out, weak philosophical and theological arguments. After hearing these lame arguments thousands of times, I hope you will forgive for not being open to such arguments today.

Now, that asymmetry doesn’t automatically make your conclusions wrong, but it does make your method interesting. Skepticism usually presents itself as provisional, meaning it can and does change sometime in the future. In the archive, your skepticism often reads as settled. The questions repeat, but the answers never seem particularly at risk of changing.

I am an agnostic atheist, so the God question is an open possibility for me. An unlikely possibility, but possible; as in me winning the mega-millions lottery. Possible, but unlikely. I am more settled in my opinion of Christianity. I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting. Christianity is a text-based religion; a dead religion with no new revelation forthcoming. Thus, I am confident that my studies have led me to the proper conclusion: Christianity is a mythic blood cult that worships a dead man named Jesus.

It wouldn’t make much sense to just ask you to reopen Christianity, suddenly grant the Bible authority, or give miracles a hall pass. But it does seem reasonable to ask whether your framework itself ever becomes an object of skepticism, or whether it functions as the final court of appeal, immune to the standards it applies everywhere else. I think that question alone would provide readers with more information about how you see your own project.

My framework is certainly open to challenge, yet few Christians bother to contest it these days. Instead, they bitch, whine, and complain about my comment rules; as if I am infringing on their right to shit on my doorstep. I have worked very hard to make this blog a community. I learned early on that I had to regulate Evangelical commenters lest they fill the comment section with preaching, Bible verses, and personal attacks. That said, EVERY commenter is given at least one opportunity to say whatever it is they think the Lord has laid upon their heart. Future participation depends on them playing well with others. Sadly, many Evangelicals are toddlers, unable to pay nice on the Internet.

I ask this question because, even though I’ve perused around 100 or so of your articles (I even went back to your first article, a letter to the editor of a newspaper posted in 2006), I still could not find an article that addresses this question directly. Perhaps it is buried somewhere in here, but I could not located it, even with the help of the handy search bar. If it’s necessary, you could use my message as a new article to answer the question once and for all on your blog.

I haven’t directly answered this question before, so I appreciate being able to answer it, If you still have questions, please let me know, and I will do my best to answer them.

If the answer is simply “yes, my framework is settled,” that’s fine. But then your blog reads less like an open inquiry and more like a ongoing explanation of why inquiry, at least on certain questions, is no longer necessary.

This blog is primarily a place for me to tell my story. As such, it is personal and conversational. I invite people into my story, and traffic numbers and emails suggest that many people find this approach helpful.

I am ALWAYS open to questions. My answers might not sit well with others, but I try to be open and honest in my responses. I plan to start a new series titled, “The Bible Says What?” This series will flesh out some of the objections I have to some of the things found in the Bible.

That, in and of itself, is still an interesting project. I’m just not sure it’s the one the blog advertises.

This iteration of this blog was started in 2014. Have my views changed over the past twelve years? Sure. Long-term readers know how my writing has evolved over the years. HaveI left my core mission? I don’t think so, but I will leave this for others to decide.

Thanks for the questions, Levi. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Saved by Reason,

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Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Comments

9 responses to “Bruce, Are You Settled on Your Beliefs About Christianity?— Part One”

  1. I have more respect for Levi than some of the others who have emailed you.

  2. Avatar
    John S.

    I second what MJ said. Respectful dialogue is refreshing to see in this day and age. Bruce, as always I appreciate your manner of dialogue with folks who may not totally share your views but still wish to engage in a good conversation with you.

  3. Merle

    LOL, tell AI that the Bible makes more sense when read right side up. Then again, come to think of it, maybe it doesn’t.

  4. Avatar
    Mike Armstrong

    This is an excellent email and response by both men! Well thought out, sincere and not pushy or belligerent toward you. I appreciate you sharing this with your readers.

  5. Avatar
    Levi

    I appreciate you taking the time to respond, Bruce. My question isn’t so much about Christianity itself as it is about method. You’ve clearly explained why you find Christian claims unconvincing. What I’m still curious about is this: what would count, in principle, as disconfirming evidence for the epistemological framework you’re using to evaluate those claims? Not evidence for Christianity, but evidence that your evaluative standard itself might need revision. Is there any scenario—even hypothetical—in which you would reconsider the criteria by which you assess religious claims?

    Thank you again for your responce!

    1. Avatar

      Thanks, Levi. My writing ✍️ schedule depends on my pain levels and bowel problems on any given day, but I plan to answer your excellent questions as soon as I can. Of course, if Trump gets me nuked or Polly hits me with a Lodge Cast Iron skillet, all bets are off.🤣🤣

      Bruce ❤️

  6. Hello Bruce. I have commented before, but it has been a while.

    I was struck by you depiction of Christianity as a text-based religion. My training and career as a pastor, of course, was centered a lot on the text for teaching or preaching. But I don’t think I would describe my personal life as a follower of Jesus as text based. I would describe it as relationship based. I find the dynamic of prayer as conversation and listening to God’s leading through life to be more important that poring over the text. And to be honest, much more exciting. I think of the text as God’s letter to me and prayer as face-to-face conversation. The letters would get to be dry and lifeless without the conversation.

    BTW I wish you better health. I at 81 am finding health a challenge at times too.

  7. Avatar

    I cannot speak for all of Bruce’s readers, but based on comments, it seems like the majority of readers here treat religious claims just as they do any other claims. They look for evidence from a variety of sources. Many of us look to works by scholars who have been trained in the scientific method.

    For myself, I also go be what makes sense. When we get into miracle claims, my brain just doesn’t accept those as anything but fantastical, unverifiable stories. I admit that’s a bias I have, but it’s based on my own personal experience with the world. Additionally, I don’t find corroborative evidence from verified sources about miracle claims. I am willing to look at evidence put before me, and I can make decisions about the evidence.

    1. Avatar
      Levi

      Good to see some discussion in the comments about my question. I just have a few things I’d like to say to your response. (Sorry for the text wall; I like being through, y’know?)

      I noticed you said that you “treat religious claims like any other claims,” but then you say that “when we get into miracle claims, my brain just doesn’t accept those as anything but fantastical stories.” I don’t see how you can reconcile the former statement with the latter. If religious claims were truly treated like any other historical claim, then miracle claims would be evaluated the same way historians evaluate other ancient reports (i.e., with testimony, corroboration, contextual plausibility, manuscript evidence, early sources, etc.). But you’re saying that miracles are rejected prior to evaluation because they are miracles. I don’t believe that’s ordinary skepticism. In other words, the rule is only natural explanations are admissible. Once that rule is adopted, miracles are impossible by definition.

      Then I noticed you said that many people like you “look to works by scholars trained in the scientific method.” But there is a category error here. The scientific method studies repeatable, observable, testable phenomena. But most historical claims—religious or secular—are not repeatable experiments. For example Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon, Alexander the Great conquering Persia, and the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in A.D. 79–none of these events can be tested scientifically today. They are evaluated using historical reasoning, not laboratory science. Saying that miracle claims must meet the standards of experimental science applies the wrong tool for the job. It’s like trying to weigh a painting with a thermometer. 😆

      But I also like your honesty. I believe when you said that your “brain just doesn’t accept miracle claims.” To your credit, you do admit it’s a bias you hold. But your admission confirms what my original question was probing: “What would count as disconfirming evidence for the framework itself?” Your answer suggests that your framework might not be falsifiable. If miracles are rejected before evidence is considered, then no amount of evidence could ever qualify.

      I say this because my question was about methodological self-criticism. A healthy epistemological framework should be able to answer something like: “If X happened, I would reconsider my method.” But your reply rests on two assumptions: (1) Miracles are inherently unbelievable, and (2) scientific methodology is the standard for evaluating all claims. Those assumptions are philosophical, not scientific.

      Thank you again for your reply and I hope I didn’t talk your ear off!

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