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Tag: Domestic Violence

Is Dr. David Tee Actually Derrick Thomas Thiessen?

dr david tee

Fake Dr. David Tee blogs at TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God. Tee is a well-known Internet troll, self-published young-earth creationist author, and a diehard Fundamentalist Christian. Tee is best known for his consummate defense of abusers and child molesters. Over the past several years, Tee has written numerous posts about me and the readers of this blog. He has also sent me several emails which he hoped would emotionally traumatize me. At every opportunity, Tee has attempted to slander my character. He has even gone after my wife and children — in Christian love, of course.

I have long known that “David Tee” was not his real name. I found that he was using the name David Thiessen. Come to find out, that’s not his real name either. According to a source I now believe to be credible, Tee’s actual name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen.

Recently, the following comments were left on this site:

Comment One

I know there’s been a bit of speculation from those who have followed “Dr. David Tee” across the interwebs over the years. I thought I’d expand on it some.

Some of you have divined his real name to be David Thiessen. You’re half right. His name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, and he’s a Canadian national.

“David” is a name he probably picked up after he stole his then-girlfriend’s identity (Social Security Number) to facilitate procurement of employment in the United States, where he was living illegally. If David is his legal name, it’s a relatively new development.

His “doctorate” is from a paper mill. He has never, to my knowledge, submitted to a curriculum created by any accredited institution.

His Bible is missing 1 Timothy 5:8 (“[b]ut if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever”) as he probably began using the abridged version of his last name shortly after he was ordered to pay child support to the child he fathered, of which he never paid a penny before disappearing from the child-support enforcement system’s radar.

But his Bible does have a unique translation of Ephesians 5:22, the same one other males of the species use to justify being abusive to their wives. Except most of them at least aren’t so cowardly to assert that dominance over a quadriplegic who not only can’t fight back, she can’t easily run away from it.

Comment Two

Original poster here. Everything I posted originally is the unvarnished truth.

The name “David Tee” comes from whole cloth, as does the name “David” in general. “Derrick” is the name that he answered to relative to at least three legal documents in my physical possession. One of them involves a restraining order, which is why I am being somewhat vague with what I post publicly. Although an extensive amount of time has passed, I do not wish to be located and identified by him or any apologists he may have.

I believe my recent e-mail to him, sent from a throwaway account, is the inspiration for his latest blog post, meaning he has narrowed my identity down to two, possibly three, people … but he would have long-outdated information if he ever came looking for any of the three, and I’d like to keep it that way.

I am also in physical possession of the court transcript of a deposition in which he conceded, under oath, that he interchangeably used “David Thiessen” and “D. David Thiessen” (as well as “David Ford”) as a pseudonym, supposedly to hide from his family in Calgary. Although, the informal name change roughly coincides with him fleeing (I believe) Washington state after being charged with domestic violence in the mid-90s. The victim was the same person who he claims – quoting from his sworn testimony – “told me she was giving me my freedom” by handing over her Social Security card for him to use for employment purposes. This, presumably, is one of the half-truths and lies he rants about in his blog, although he doesn’t clarify which part of his account of that encounter is only half-true.

I have reviewed the aforementioned sworn affidavit. It is a damning document that suggests Thiessen committed domestic violence, illegally used another person’s social security number, and attempted to commit voter fraud. If these things are true, we now understand why Thiessen has been holed up in South Korea and the Phillipines for years.

Another friend of mine, with whom I shared this information, did an Internet search on Derrick David Theissen. Low and behold he got a hit: Tee used his real name in a 2016 article about a lecture he gave to the Asian Center for Missions:

An inspirational message and challenge were shared by Dr. Derrick Thomas Thiessen, a missionary to Korea for 14 years. He placed emphasis on the significant and distinct roles of the body of Christ in mending the wounds and brokenness of a missionary especially when they make mistakes in their given assignments.

With the article was a picture of the conference participants and speakers. In the back row is a tall white guy. You guessed it. It’s Dr. David Tee/David Thiessen/Derrick Thomas Thiessen.

david thiessen

The person who left the comments on this site about Thiessen contacted him about his allegations. This prompted Thiessen to write an incoherent, unhinged post titled When People Hate You:

We were taught years ago, that a good preacher is preaching himself when he prepares and speaks his sermon. Everything we have said on this website plus this topic has already been preached to us. and we learn the lessons we need to learn.

Everything said in this specific post is said with a lot of heartfelt kindness. And we are not going to go into specifics just using the material to glean lessons.

Recently, we received an e-mail from someone who stated they hated us. We never met the person before and had no direct contact with them. Yet they hated us and not because of what we write on our websites.

We knew that attitude would be in that person because sinful third parties told us what they were going to do and there was nothing we could really do about it. The author of that particular e-mail was a victim of those sinful third parties’ evil deeds yet the author decided to direct their hatred and anger toward us.

There really is nothing you can do when a person takes that stance. Their minds are closed by the hatred and other negative and sinful emotions they let rise in their minds and hearts. A  Christian cannot approach the people like that author as their closed mind does not let them see the truth and they can get angrier if one tries.

Sometimes it takes a fourth party to get involved to help the angry person to realize their mistake and see the truth. That 4th party can be God doing it directly or sending another human to work with the angry person.

The angry person won’t hear you but they might hear that God-sent person. There are no guarantees as that person has free choice. The one that wrote us chose to believe the lies and half-truths told him or her, (they did not leave a name), We know they were lies and half-truths as we know the whole story.

We are not getting involved because we do not want that author to hate the people who did this to him or her. They are as much a victim of those third parties as a person who is killed is a victim of a murderer.

We cannot get angry at them for their content in the letter nor do we hold any ill will or negative thoughts against the, We understand where they are coming from. BUT, they have always had a choice.

God’s instructions throughout the Bible apply to the author of that e-mail as well as to every victim that has existed in this world. They can choose the path that person is on right now or they can choose to follow the path that God laid out in the Bible.

We as Christians cannot force that choice nor demand that they choose God’s way over the sinful evil way they have decided to follow. That is up to the Holy Spirit to convict and convince that and those people of their wrong choice.

By not choosing God’s way, they leave themselves on a path to destruction as their hatred and unwillingness to forgive destroys them. They should forgive because they do not know the whole story and are making bad assumptions about the situation and the circumstances surrounding that situation.

They are taking someone’s word for what happened even though the words they received were not true. That is wrong and makes them as bad as the third parties that planned this direction.

The key is for these people to learn that God’s instructions apply to them even though they may not be a Christian. They are the ones in disobedience to God, not the person they hate. Christians must remember that they are not responsible for the decisions of those who hate them.

That responsibility lies on the people who decided to hate. We cannot force decisions on others even though the people that ran the different Inquisitions tried. They were given free choice just like Christians were and their decisions are on their shoulders.

You can’t pass the buck on this issue. Even Christians are responsible for their choices and we must make the right ones as well. As for the author of that e-mail, we do not think bad of them or hate them. They just do not understand that they are victims of evil and deception.

We would hope and pray that God sends a 4th party to that person and help them before it is too late for them. Christians will face different situations where people will hate them just for being Christian. That is not our responsibility.

Our responsibility is that we obey Christ in all situations even when we are victims ourselves. The author of that e-mail said that we would be too chicken to respond, while that person should have made sure their e-mail address accepted responses.

Sometimes all Christians can do is leave these types of people in God’s hands and endure the hatred. Responding in kind is not Jesus supported. Getting all the facts is important before you draw conclusions.

Coming to a conclusion without all the facts means you are making faulty conclusions that lead you away from God and his ways. That is not the right move to make. Christians need to do the same thing especially when they are trying to reach out and win the other person to Christ.

While it is almost impossible to understand what the hell Theissen is talking about, I have concluded that he sees himself as a “victim,” unfairly persecuted and he believes “God” will take care (kill?) of the person making these allegations.

I have long believed that Thiessen was hiding something. I will leave it up to him to defend himself. I will gladly give Thiessen space on this site to rebut the allegations laid at his feet.


Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Domestic Violence in the IFB Church Movement

god domestic abuse

Let me begin by giving readers the definition of domestic violence. The National Domestic Violence Hotline defines domestic violence as follows:

Domestic violence can be defined as a pattern of behavior in any relationship that is used to gain or maintain power and control over an intimate partner.

Abuse is physical, sexual, emotional, economic or psychological actions or threats of actions that influence another person. This includes any behaviors that frighten, intimidate, terrorize, manipulate, hurt, humiliate, blame, injure or wound someone.

Domestic violence can happen to anyone of any race, age, sexual orientation, religion or gender. It can happen to couples who are married, living together or who are dating. Domestic violence affects people of all socioeconomic backgrounds and education levels.

Does the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement have a domestic abuse problem? The short answer is Yes!

The IFB church movement is built on a foundation of psychological manipulation and abuse. This is seen in how parents discipline their children and how husbands lord over and control their wives. These behaviors are often modeled by IFB pastors, deacons, and church leaders as they manipulate, control, and dominate church members.

I know IFB readers of this blog are howling over what I have written here. How dare I suggest that the IFB church movement has an abuse problem. How dare I suggest IFB pastors and church leaders emotionally and mentally manipulate and control people. Child abuse? Domestic violence? Where do such things happen? says the IFB church member. I have never seen it.

And therein lies the problem. The abuse and violence are institutionalized to such a degree that it is considered normal. People are so used to seeing it that they never consider whether such behavior is appropriate. IFB church members are familiar with having their “toes stepped on.” They are accustomed to fire-and-brimstone, naming-names, calling-sin-“sin,” sermons. They are used to aggressive behavior from their pastors. It seems quite “normal” to them. Those of us who were raised in the IFB church movement understand this. It took us getting away from it to see how manipulative and abusive our churches, pastors, and families really were. The waiting rooms of mental health professionals are crowded with people whose mental wellness and self-esteem were ruined by Fundamentalism.

For those of us who spent decades in the IFB church, we know that the deep psychological scars left by our time in the IFB church will never go away. We learn to come to terms with our past and try to do the best we can going forward. We are marred, even broken, yet somehow, we find a way to pick up and move forward.

This is why some of us speak so openly about the IFB church movement and its manipulative and abusive tendencies. We don’t want ANYONE to experience what we experienced. When we see someone gravitating towards Fundamentalism we try to warn them as we would warn a person who is driving towards a cliff. Stop! Turn around!  Sadly, many people ignore these warnings and often pay a heavy price, emotionally, mentally, and sometimes physically, as a result.

Domestic violence in the IFB church movement is widespread. Unfortunately, it is often not seen as domestic violence by those who are devoted church members. Instead, the use of domestic violence is often seen as being “true to the Bible” or being “a faithful follower of Jesus.” To understand this, we must first understand the theological underpinnings of such violence. Domestic violence often happens because husbands (it is almost always husbands who perpetrate domestic violence in the IFB church) want to be obedient to the Bible, Jesus, and the pastors’ dictates. Remember, in the IFB church, the voice of God sounds an awful lot like the voice of the Pastor.

Here is what many IFB pastors preach to their church members:

  • Christ is the head of the church and pastors are ordained by God to lead (and control) their churches.
  • The Bible is an inspired, inerrant, infallible text that should be interpreted literally and explicitly obeyed.
  • Husbands are the head of their homes.
  • Wives are to submit to their husbands.
  • The highest calling for women is to bear children and to be a keeper of the home. Many IFB pastors discourage women from working outside the home or getting college educations (unless they go to an IFB college to get an MRS degree).
  • Husbands are the authorities, disciplinarians, and the kings of their homes. God holds them, like he did Adam, responsible for everything that goes on in their homes.
  • The Bible sanctions using violence when children disobey. If parents don’t spank, whip, or beat their children, it  means they are not willing to obey the teachings of the Pastor and the Bible. The rod of correction is meant to be used to drive wickedness out of the hearts of children.

Now, none of these things necessarily lead to domestic abuse. However, add to this the IFB church’s preoccupation with sin and the portrayal of God as a violent deity who will whip them if they disobey, and you have a recipe for not only domestic abuse but also child abuse. I have watched more than a few IFB church members and pastors beat the living hell out of their children with a belt, switch, or paddle. I remember hearing of one parent who picked up a 2×4 and beat his two teenage girls with it. Why? The teens deliberately disobeyed him by riding the church bus home instead of going home with him.

I have admitted my own violent, abusive methods of correcting my three oldest children. Fortunately, I abandoned these practices with my three youngest children. My oldest sons routinely got thrashed for disobeying their parents. I corrected them this way because I thought that is what God wanted me to do. The books I read said this was the proper way to discipline children, and every big-name preacher I heard preach said I was doing right by my kids when I whipped them. Is it any surprise then, with Bible-sanctioned brutality against children and a violent God who uses violence to chastise disobedient IFB church members, that violent behavior spills over into the relationships between husbands and their “submissive” wives?

I can’t say that I know of more than a few instances where IFB husbands physically beat their wives. I know of a few pastors’ wives who were physically abused by their pastor husbands. The pastors were men of God in the pulpit, but at home they were violent disciplinarians who ruled over their wives and children with a rod of iron. Most of the abuse I saw was more of the mental and emotional type. If their wives weren’t submissive enough or didn’t put out sexually, they would pay for it. If they dared to have ambition, wanted to work outside the home, or go to college, these “rebellious” wives would be brought to heel, reminded of God’s divine order for the home.

I have often said, I don’t know how ANY woman stays in the IFB church. Well, I do know. Women are afraid. They fear disobeying God, their husbands, and their pastors. They fear God will chastise them if they dare step outside the role God has allegedly ordained for them.  And so they stay and suffer the abuse.

Again, theology plays a big part in this. Many IFB pastors think that there are no grounds for divorce or that the only ground for divorce is adultery. Having a husband who is abusive, especially if it is emotional or mental abuse, is not grounds for divorce.

Let me give an illustration of how this is perpetuated from the pulpit:

Years ago the church I was pastoring joined together with other IFB churches to hold a joint revival meeting. The speaker was Bill Rice III. (I am almost certain it was Bill Rice but it could have been Pete Rice, both were associated with the Bill Rice Ranch.) One night, Bill Rice preached on  the subject of marriage and divorce. Rice did not believe there were any grounds for divorce. He said that even if a husband was beating on his wife, the wife should stay in the marriage. Perhaps she would win her husband to Jesus by her willingness to stay in the marriage. Rice intimated that saved husbands don’t beat their wives.

By the time of this meeting my views had already begun to change and I pulled our church out of the meetings. I was incensed that Rice was advocating a woman endure her husband beating on her, implying that God wanted her to do so.

As my wife and I traveled beyond the IFB church movement, we had to relearn what it meant to have a healthy marriage and family relationship. Ultimately, it took getting away from Christianity altogether for us to find wholeness.

I am not suggesting that every husband in the IFB church movement is abusive or that every father abuses his children when he disciplines them. I am suggesting that IFB theology encourages manipulation, violence, and abuse. Personally, I don’t think the IFB church movement is good for anyone. The extreme Fundamentalism found in the movement is psychologically harmful and people are better off finding other Christians sects to be a part of; sects that don’t view women as inferior, and don’t see children as chattel. I am of the opinion that the best thing that can happen to the IFB church movement is that it dies a quick death. It is dying, but it is dying slowly. I am all for smothering the movement in its bed.

Over the years, I have watched a number of women break free from domestic violence. They decided their own personal self-worth and happiness were more important than supposed obedience to God, the Bible, the pastor, and their husbands. Most often, gaining their freedom required them to divorce their husbands.

Let me head off those who might suggest that the reason there is domestic abuse and child abuse in the IFB church movement is that they misinterpret the Bible. I don’t think this is the case at all. Sadly. abusers are being consistent with their beliefs and literal readings of the Bible. After all, the Bible does command fathers to beat their children with rods. The Bible does command wives to be submissive to their husbands and be keepers of their homes. And let’s face it, the Bible is a written record of the violence God pours out and will yet pour out on all those who do not worship or obey him. The good news is that many Christians ignore or explain away vast parts of the Bible. They know beating children is wrong. They know demanding a wife submit to her husband is demeaning. They wisely reject such things.

Do you have a story to tell about domestic violence? What did you experience growing up in the IFB church? What went on in your IFB home when the doors were closed? Please share your thoughts in the comment section.


Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Domestic Violence Is Not Grounds for Divorce

domestic violence

We are going to get this out of the way right now. There is only one reason for divorce. The unbelieving world has created a myriad of reasons but in reality and truth, there is only one- adultery.

Since God and Jesus get to make the rules, there are no substitutes. While the unbelieving world feels that they are more compassionate and more moral than God, they keep coming up with new ways to break up a solid family.

Sadly, the church has followed the unbelieving world and added far more reasons than the one Jesus gave. Many years ago we were in an online discussion with a woman on this very topic. We stated our position, as above, and she came back with, ‘My pastor said abandonment’ is grounds for divorce.

We came back with a solid no and restated adultery and her response was always the same – ‘and abandonment. her pastor was wrong and so are all those people who add abuse or domestic violence to the list.

Domestic violence is a sin but it is not a reason for divorce. In fact, encouraging people to divorce an abusive partner does not make the situation any better. Many women are killed after they have moved out and divorced their husbands.


Does this mean we are condemning people to abusive relationships? No. We are telling them not to sin in response to the sins committed against them. Sinning in response does not solve the problem either.

Remember Jesus was heavily abused by his family and the Romans, yet he did not sin in retaliation. He set the example. He is the one to follow. Can spouses and children bring charges against their mates and parents?

This is a delicate issue and one has to use the law wisely. Punishment is not for revenge or to hurt others. It is to bring the offender to repentance. You cannot achieve that goal if you sin in response or deal with the offender unjustly.


We do not sin when sin is done against us. Forgiveness does not make everything go away or make it better. Nor does it remove punishment but it helps us see clearly and find the just punishment for the offense or offenses committed.

Revenge is mine saith the Lord. Our duty is to allow God to lead us to the just punishment and not let our own will get in the way.

“Dr.” David Tee (David Thiessen), Theology Archeology: A Site for the Glory of God, Domestic Violence, October 6, 2021

Evangelical Pastor John Piper Tells Christian Women to “Submit” to Domestic Abuse

john piper

John Piper, a notable Evangelical pastor and author, is known for his Calvinistic and complementarian beliefs. Piper believes married women should “submit” to their husbands in all things, even if they physically and/or verbally abuse them.

In the short video that follows, Piper is asked whether a married Christian woman should submit to physical and/or verbal abuse. Piper replied:

“If it’s [asking her to engage in group sex] not requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked one night.”

Video Link

What a mighty and wonderful God John Piper worships and serves.


Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: How to Avoid Getting Abused by Your Husband

A wife has a much greater chance of being abused if she is quarrelsome, contentious, & abusive towards her husband rather than if she is kind, loving, & submissive. God’s ways are for our good, NOT for our harm.

Lori Alexander, Twitter, October 21, 2019

In other words, ladies, if your (Christian) husband beats the shit out of you, it is likely your fault. All you need to do is be kind, loving, and submissive, and your husband will not beat you.  Why, if wives would just stop being quarrelsome, contentious, and abusive towards their husbands, peace would reign supreme. Talking about blaming the victim. Just when I think Alexander can’t say anything worse, she sends out a Trump-like tweet or blog post.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Wives Commanded to Submit to Abusive Husbands


If a husband physically abuses his wife, he is either a very troubled man or an evil man. Not one woman that I have mentored who has been physically abused by her husband has told me that their husband is evil. They all say their husband is very troubled and needs help. I encourage them to call the authorities if they are being physically abused and even separate for a time until he gets help. BUT this doesn’t make void God’s commands for wives to submit to their husband’s leadership and that women who are married to disobedient husbands are to win their husbands without the word by their godly behavior (1 Peter 3:1). God’s ways are “good, and acceptable, and perfect” (Romans 12:2) so we must trust and obey Him! There are TWELVE verses that clearly states a wife’s position under her husband. There’s no guessing game here.

— Lori Alexander, The Transformed Wife, Why Women Are More Easily Deceived, October 1, 2018


pabst blue ribbon

In April of 1972, my parents divorced. I was fourteen years old. In the fall of that year, my dad married a nineteen-year-old girl with a baby and my mom married her first cousin — a recent parolee from Texas State Penitentiary at Huntsville. In early 1973, Dad auctioned off our household goods, and in the dark of night — hoping to avoid debt collectors — moved us across country from Findlay, Ohio to Tucson, Arizona. Five months later, I moved back to Findlay so I could attend eleventh grade at Findlay High School. In late May 1974, I returned home to Bryan, Ohio to live with my mom. By then, Mom’s second husband had committed suicide and she had a new man. Mom always had a new man. Her new beau was a man by the name of Chuck Jones.

Chuck was a lifelong resident of Bryan, Ohio. I don’t know how he and Mom met, but by the time I moved back to Bryan, he was Mom’s boyfriend. She would spend days on end at Chuck’s father’s rundown shack on the north side of town, leaving her children to fend for themselves. Chuck’s father was one of the town drunks, and as you shall learn in this story, so was his son. In November of 1974, Mom had another nervous breakdown. She spent the next six months or so at the Toledo State Mental Hospital. While there she would receive electroshock therapy (now known as electroconvulsive therapy — ECT).

After finding out his children had been living without parental supervision — as if we had any such supervision since their divorce — Dad came from Arizona, picked us up, and returned us to his home in Sierra Vista.  I would live there until fall of 1975. After breaking up with my girlfriend — my first serious, I want to marry you, relationship — I left my car for Dad to sell (which he quickly did and pocketed the money), packed up my meager belongings, and rode a Greyhound bus back to Bryan. By then, Mom had married Chuck, and they had bought a new mobile home, putting it in a trailer park on US 6, between Bryan and Edgerton (where Manufactured Housing Enterprises’ manufacturing facility sits today.)

Chuck had a split personality, as is common among alcoholics. When somewhat sober, he was a decent enough man. He was a union journeyman meat cutter for Kroger in Fort Wayne. He and I weren’t close, but when he wasn’t drunk we got along well enough to make Mom happy. I wasn’t home much. I spent my daytime hours working as the dairy manager for Food Giant in Bryan. Evenings and weekends, I was either attending church or running around with my friends. On a few occasions, Chuck and I would go fishing for catfish in the St. Joe, a nearby river.

Chuck drank from the time he got up until he went to bed. He was a Pabst Blue Ribbon man. He was what you would call a functional drunk. There were times, however, when Chuck went from a tolerable drunk to a mean, nasty, violent boozer. Chuck abused my mom (physically and psychologically), and there were times she feared for her life.

One day, Chuck went on a rampage, verbally and physically abusing my mom. I was home at the time, and having had enough of his bullshit, I told him to stop. I thought at the time, that if I needed to — all 160 pounds of me — I would kick his ass and put an end to the abuse of my mother. I was angry — I mean redheaded, can’t-see-straight angry. While I blamed Mom for allowing such a degenerate like Chuck in her life, I wasn’t going to stand by and do nothing while he abused her.

Chuck briefly stumbled out of the living room down the hallway to their bedroom. When he returned he was brandishing a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson revolver. He continued his screaming fit, pointing the gun at Mom and me. By this time, Mom was crying, worried that Chuck was going to kill us. Not me. I was beyond fear. Chuck cocked the hammer on the revolver, hoping to strike fear in my heart. Instead, I said to him, Go ahead!  Stupid, I know, but I was eighteen and filled with righteous indignation. Fortunately, calling Chuck’s bluff was enough to back him up and he soon retreated to the bedroom.

Several days later, at the behest of my mother, Jack Smith, pastor of Eastland Baptist Church in Bryan, and an evangelist stopped by to “help” Chuck with his alcohol problem.  What Chuck needed, said these clueless preachers, was Jesus. If he would just ask Jesus to save him, all would be well. I have no idea if Chuck got “saved,” but the only salvation the rest of us found was to get away from Chuck. My younger sister, age fifteen, got pregnant and married her baby’s father. I left to train for the ministry at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan. By the time I returned home for the summer (1977), Mom had thrown Chuck out of the house and divorced him.

Chuck lived with his dad for a time and then moved into his late mother’s house in Bryan. On November 19, 2009 Chuck died at the age of seventy. His obituary stated:

Charles E. ‘Chuck” Jones, 70 years, of Bryan, died Thursday, November 19, 2009 at the University of Toledo Medical Center, Toledo, Ohio. Chuck was born February 22, 1939 to Ewell “Pete” and Zelma (Sanders) Jones in Cloverport, Kentucky. He was an Army veteran. Chuck was a meat cutter, working for several area stores, including Kroger Company while living in Indiana and Harger Meats in Bryan, Ohio. Chuck obtained his pilot’s license at the age of 17. He enjoyed building airplanes that he then sold. He was an avid fisherman, but he also enjoyed gardening and playing on the computer. Preceded in death by his parents, half-brother, Donald Heston and sister, Irene Jones, he is survived by his aunt Dorothy Carver of Bryan and numerous cousins. Graveside funeral services will be held at 3:00 p.m. Saturday, November 21, 2009 at Farmer Cemetery with Pastor Gary Keisling officiating. There will be no public visitation.

Absent from this telling of his life was his addiction to alcohol and the great harm it caused to a woman who loved him. I shall never forget Chuck Jones. On the day I read his obituary in the local paper I said to myself, Good riddance, you piece of shit. Think I am being too harsh? Consider this: There are things Chuck did to my mom sexually, that to this day I am too ashamed to mention. Evil stuff. He was a violent, abusive man, and I have no problem saying that the world is better off without him in it. Now that I no longer have to love people because Jesus says I must, I am free to speak my mind on the people who have passed through my life.

About Bruce Gerencser

Bruce Gerencser, 61, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 40 years. He and his wife have six grown children and twelve grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist. For more information about Bruce, please read the About page.

Bruce is a local photography business owner, operating Defiance County Photo out of his home. If you live in Northwest Ohio and would like to hire Bruce, please email him.

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Black Collar Crime: Evangelical Pastor Derek Jones Enters a Not Guilty Plea

michael derek jones

The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

Six weeks ago, I wrote a post detailing the domestic battery charges filed against Michael “Derek” Jones, pastor of Sold Out Church in Conway, Arkansas.  Jones was in court yesterday to enter a plea of not guilty. Also in attendance were Sold Out members who were there to support the previously convicted felon Jones (who is still listed as their pastor on the church’s website).

Marisa Hicks, a reporter for the Log Cabin Democrat reports:

Those who attend Sold Out Church and others who have worked alongside Lead Pastor Michael “Derek” Jones continue to support him despite criminal allegations against him.

Jones, 35, of Conway was charged with third-degree domestic battery, a Class A misdemeanor, following an incident reported in the early morning hours of July 13. His charges were later upgraded to second-degree battery against certain persons, a Class D felony.

Olivia Smith, a member of Sold Out Church, said that while she doesn’t know a great deal pertaining the details surrounding Jones’ charge, she continues to support her pastor.

“This man, and his family, have [b]een there for me and my family through some of the most difficult times in my life and he did it all through grace, love, and compassion,” she said, noting she’s attended the church for the past three years.

Jones stood at the back of the courtroom Monday, opening and closing the door for those entering and exiting, as he awaited Circuit Judge Charles “Ed” Clawson Jr. to call his name.

Lee D. Short stood in for Jones’ attorney, David Cannon and accompanied Jones as he entered a not guilty plea Monday morning.

“We’d like to enter a plea of not guilty and request a jury trial,” Short said.

Clawson took note of the plea and set out a Jan. 3 pretrial in Jones’ case.

Smith said it was Jones’ persistence that inspired her to keep coming back to the church.

Jones reached out to Smith when she didn’t show for service one Sunday. Smith said the gesture touched her and continues to do so.

“I have grown up in church all my life and never has a pastor done that,” she said, noting she was surprised Jones wanted to check on her well-being. “He is sincere about his faith and his mission to make Jesus known to a hurting world and develop Sold Out followers of him. He has been a father figure to my boys, a spiritual leader for myself and a true friend. I genuinely love this man and his family and believe wholeheartedly in what he stands for.”

City of Conway Chief of Staff Jack Bell said he holds a good professional relationship with Jones, who has volunteered through the Ministry Center to perform tasks around the city.

Spring Hunter, the Ministry Center’s director, said she has also grown close to Jones after working alongside him the past four years.

Hunter said Jones’ character was represented by his love for God and his passion for his family and the community and said she, also, will continue to support him despite the criminal allegations against him.

“He does his best to practice what he preaches on Sunday morning,” she said. “He reaches out to love on people regardless of who they are, where they come from, or what hardships they face. When you strive to meet people right where they are, you sometimes find yourself in some very difficult situations. We know Derek’s heart, and we will stand with him as he goes through this process.”


After learning the victim suffered an orbital fracture, which is a traumatic injury to the bone of the eye socket, prosecutors determined the misdemeanor charge would be upgraded to a felony.

“I think these charges are justified, because Mr. Jones has a history of anger management.”

Jones, who once served the Air Force and was stationed in North Carolina from 2001 to 2002, was previously sentenced to prison after he shot two people during a drunken fight. He served seven years in prison.

Because Jones went to the victim’s house after it was made known he was not welcome at the time, McCoy said Jones’ self defense argument was not genuine.

“Derek Jones went to [the victim’s] house … if he felt like he was physically threatened he has a burden on himself to remove himself from the home,” McCoy told the Log Cabin. “His claim of self defense doesn’t hold water.”

Many Sold Out Church members have openly supported Jones over Facebook.



Prosecutors drop felony charges against Jones.

Black Collar Crime: Evangelical Pastor Derek Jones Accused of Domestic Violence


The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

Michael “Derek” Jones, pastor of Sold Out Church in Conway, Arkansas, was arrested earlier this month and charged with third-degree domestic battery.

The Log Cabin Democrat reports:

A local preacher was arrested earlier this month on suspicion of domestic battery.

Michael “Derek” Jones, of Conway, was arrested in Mayflower around 2:30 a.m. July 13 on a third-degree domestic battery charge.

Jones is the current lead pastor at the Sold Out Church, located at 701 Polk St. in Conway.

According to the church’s website, Jones has been the lead pastor at the church since January 2014.

The Log Cabin Democrat reached out to Jones for comment via phone on Thursday. However, calls went unanswered by press time.

According to court documents, Jones was ordered to have no contact with the victim following the incident.

Jones currently faces third-degree battery, which is a Class A misdemeanor. However, his case has since been sent to the Faulkner County Prosecutor’s Office for review.

Chief Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Carol Crews confirmed Thursday the prosecutor’s office received Jones’ case file last week and would soon make a determination whether Jones’ charge should be upgraded to a felony.

Jones is set to appear in Mayflower District Court at 8:30 a.m. Aug. 16 for a plea and arraignment hearing regarding the misdemeanor charge.

According to Jones’ bio on his church’s website:

Derek and Amie Jones decided to respond to God’s prompting to start a new church and called a meeting at their house on May 2, 2012. This was the culmination of a long process that had been leading to this point. For years Derek knew he had an anointing in his life to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to lead His people, but instead looked for answers in everything except Christ. He tried to run from that calling into the ministry for a very long time. Finally, after losing a child in October of 2009, he threw his hands up and boldly prayed “Whatever you have for me Lord, I’m ready.”

Derek and Amie served bi-vocationally on staff at in Conway, Arkansas, where Derek was ordained. Derek also served as the Director of Men’s Ministries for Homelessness at the Union Rescue Mission in Little Rock for 4 years, but took a leap of faith in January 2014 and became full-time at Sold Out Church as the Lead Pastor

Derek and Amie live in Conway and have a passion and love for their city. They have five children, [names removed] whom they pray in faith will rise up to be the greatest godly men and women of their generation.

Sold Out Church Facebook page.

The comments on the original article are quite interesting, yet predictable:

It’s a shame that both sides of this story is not being shared as to the what and why. Derek Jones is human, he has not placed himself upon a pedestal. He sins as we all do. If you want to know his past, ,just simply ask him and he will share it with you and he will also share his love of Jesus Christ. Pastor Derek has publicly shared his past more than once. As for me and my family we will continue to serve the Lord and continue serving at Sold Out Church. We will continue making Jesus known in a hurting world and develop SOLD OUT followers of Him.

I also am a member of Sold Out Church as is my family and Pastor Derek and his family have been nothing but real. He doesn’t claim to be or portray himself to be perfect..he after all is human. We all sin everyday whether it’s breaking the law, or not being truthful, no one sin is greater than the other. I wish you would have taken the time to give more of the facts instead of making it out to try to damage his character. The fact is he was trying to protect not only others but himself as well. We will continue to support Derek and his family and our church through this.

My family and I consider Pastor Derek Jones as a part of our family. He is human, and, yes he makes mistakes. He will openly tell anyone that there is only one perfect “being” and that is God. He has never even pretended to be perfect and he is as authentic and transparent as they come. He has never wanted to be put on a pedestal, for only one deserves that honor. We will continue to support our Pastor, Michael Derek Jones.

Mathew 7:1-5 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

And finally, one comment that suggests there is more to this story:

It is very important to note that this is not the first time that Michael Derek Jones has been in trouble with the law for violence. He has previously served time for a violent offense.

All of the cult like supporters of Michael Derek Jones are basing their opinions on what they were TOLD by MICHAEL DEREK JONES.

The TRUTH will come out in court.

For those of you who are claiming self defense, a normal person, in a reasonable state of mind, should retreat if they feel threatened, especially if they are at a house where they were not invited to.

The medical records and photos of the victims face will provide clear evidence that this was not a case of self defense. It was a violent beating. How does Michael Derek Jone’s face look in the mug shot? Does he look injured?

What is truly sad is that one of the cult like supporters of Michael Derek Jones called DHS and made false accusations against the victim. DHS went to the victim’s house, and after seeing the wounds and swelling on the victim’s face, interviewing the victim’s daughter, and inspecting the home, immediately concluded that the report was unsubstantiated and only a clear attempt to smear the victim. DHS left the victim’s house after only 10 minutes or so. Shame on you.

For the cult like supporter quoting scripture, you left out Matthew chapter 5 verse 39.
“But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.”

The thing that the cult like supporters of this man need to realize, is that he came up with a story to try to make himself not look responsible. When the truth comes out in court, his story will not matter. The facts are what matter.

I do feel sorry for the members of Sold Out Church. You are having to accept some facts that are not easy to accept.

And I feel sorry for the family of Michael Derek Jones.

I hope that all of the truth comes out in court and that justice is served.

In 2014, The Arkansas Online ran a feature story about Jones. Here’s an excerpt of what they had to say:

Derek Jones of Conway said he knew when he was 8 years old that he was called to the ministry, but he went astray for years before accepting the call.

His passion reignited, the now 32-year-old started Sold Out Church about two years ago with approximately 30 people in his living room, and on Mother’s Day, May 11, the church will hold a grand opening in its renovated building at 1015 Lincoln St. in Conway.

“We don’t believe the church is a building; we believe we are the church. We’re here for the world,” he said.

The flier for the church uses the saying: “This ain’t your momma’s church.”

Jones said he grew up in North Little Rock, the son of an alcoholic. His parents divorced when he was 2, and his father has since died.

“When I was 12, my godfather passed away,” Jones said. “I turned away, looked for answers” in unhealthy ways. “I ran into trouble. I felt Jesus had betrayed me.”

Things got much worse before they got better.

Jones served in the Air Force in 2001-2002, stationed in North Carolina, but after a drunken fight, he shot two people and went to prison.

“My whole congregation knows about it; I never hide anything,” he said. “I truly believe I’m a testament to what happens when you encounter a holy God,” Jones said.

“I went to a party one night; things went really bad. Me and a guy got into a fight,” Jones said. “He threw a cinder block through my windshield.” Another individual was involved, too, Jones said. “I decided I was going to go back with a gun and make them give me money and make them pay for it.

“I did shoot two people. They did not die; I did not kill them.”

One man was treated and released for a “flesh wound,” Jones said. The other was seriously injured.

Jones said he didn’t immediately become a Christian while in prison. He said he saw people come into prison, “walk in the door and say, ‘Oh, Jesus, save me.’ That wasn’t me.

“Somebody gave me a Bible, and that’s when everything changed.”

Jones was 21 years old. Although he started out in a North Carolina prison, he transferred to Arkansas to do his time — seven years.


“I had been clean and sober since 2002. In 2009, that’s when everything really, really changed. I realized I’m not in control.

“I threw up my hands in surrender and said, ‘Lord, you’ve been calling me for years.’ Although this makes no sense, that’s all I can lean on.”

Three days later, Jones said, his best friend called and encouraged him to apply for a job.

“He said, ‘God told me you have to know about it,’” Jones said the friend told him. The friend also had applied for the position.

Jones was working at a plumbing company at the time.

“I knew in my spirit what was taking place,” he said. “I said, ‘I’m afraid if I apply, I’m going to get it.’”

Sure enough, Jones got the job as director of the homeless ministry at Union Rescue Mission in Little Rock.

“It’s been like riding a rocket ship ever since,” Jones said.

About two years ago, he said, he started a church service in his home with around 30 people. It grew like crazy, he said. Today, there are about 100 members of Sold Out Church.

“I have experience dealing with the last, the least and the lost,” he said.

As director, he worked hand in hand with a nine-month “life-recovery” program for people at the mission who had struggled, like he had.

Jones said he was ordained through That Church, which is no longer in Conway, although its Sherwood location is thriving, he said.

“I do have a biblical degree through Andersonville Theological Seminary,” he said, which is an online program. [an unaccredited institution that some haves called a diploma mill.]

It was too hard to be a pastor and work at the mission and “do both excellently,” he said.

He resigned Jan. 3 from his job at the Union Rescue Mission and took a $23,000 pay cut to become a full-time pastor, he said.

“Four weeks after I resigned, I found out my wife was pregnant with our sixth child — Logan is with the Lord — our fifth that’s with us,” he said.

Jones said it was a surprise, albeit a happy one.

Despite the financial impact, Jones said he has no doubt that he’s where God wants him to be.

“It’s stepping out on faith,” he said.


“My background, I was baptized Baptist, … but we are not Baptist; we are nondenominational. We’re about Jesus. That’s what we’re about,” he said. “We’re a church, and we represent Jesus Christ, and that’s what we do. On our website, it says it doesn’t matter what your race, religion, sexuality, anything.

“I’m not going to tell anyone sin is OK, but we’re going to love anyone who comes through the door.”


Prosecutors drop felony charges against Jones.

Black Collar Crime: Baptist Pastor Michael Baker Charged With Domestic Violence

pastor michael baker

Michael Baker, pastor of Greater St. Luke Baptist Church in Columbia, South Carolina was charged Wednesday with third-degree criminal domestic violence. The State reports:

The pastor of a Columbia church and a chaplain for local police has been charged with criminal domestic violence.

Michael Henry Baker, 55, was booked at the Alvin S. Glenn Detention Center on Wednesday and charged with third-degree criminal domestic violence.

Baker is the pastor of Greater St. Luke Baptist Church on Farrow Road. He served as a chaplain for both the Richland County Sheriff’s Department and the Columbia Police Department but, since his charge, has been relieved of his duties by both agencies, spokespeople said.

Baker’s charge comes after an officer responded to two incidents within the past week between Baker and his wife, according to incident reports provided by the sheriff’s department.

On March 16, a deputy responded to the couple’s home on Hunt Club Road just before 10 p.m. According to the report, Baker’s wife said he was keeping her phone from her. When his wife repeatedly asked him to give it to her, he pushed her to the floor twice, causing her to hit her head and injure her hand, she told the officer.

His wife went to a neighbor’s house to call 911 and later filled out a criminal domestic violence statement but “didn’t want Mr. Baker to go to jail,” the report said.

And on March 20, a deputy again arrived at the home, where Baker was sitting in his wife’s car preventing her from leaving, according to the incident report. His wife said she had come to pick up some of her belongings and leave but Baker wouldn’t let her. She also said that Baker had changed the locks on the doors and hadn’t given her a new key to the house, the report said.

Baker’s bio on Greater St. Luke Baptist’s website states:

Pastor Michael H. Baker delivers a profound impact to the Kingdom of God. He inherently inspires and insistently motivates others to operate in a spirit of excellence, while using their gifts and talents for the Glory of God.

Pastor Baker received his Bachelor of Arts Degree from Florida Theological Seminary and has attended Oxford University in England in pursuit of obtaining a Masters of Divinity.

A true Man of God, Pastor Baker’s national ministry and international involvement are consistent in a community based work that reaches the heart of God’s people. Presently, he is the Senior Pastor of the Greater St. Luke Baptist Church in Columbia, South Carolina.  He is the Executive Director of the Light of The World Economic Community Development Corporation. This non-profit corporation assists in sponsoring and promoting religious, educational and community events.

Since advancing to South Carolina, this visionary leader is involved with a wide variety of organizations including, but not limited to, the NAACP, The South Carolina Baptist Congress of Christian Education, co-founder of The Midlands Baptist Ministerial Alliance, Richland County Sheriff’s Department Chaplains Division and former member of the 100 Black Men of Greater Columbia. He is the founder of the Annual Pastor’s Cup Golf Tournament and serves on the Executive Board of the National Action Network under the leadership of Reverend Al Sharpton and is a co-sponsor of the A&M Leadership Conference.

Pastor Baker has a zest and zeal for our youth and the community. He can be quoted in saying “My concern is for our children. Pastor Baker founded the Greater Columbia Holistic Enrichment Development Summer Program that offers academic, music and computer training. Pastor Baker also served as the Chairman for the first Interdenominational Ministerial Alliance City Wide Revival. This revival brought people of all denominations together as well as helped to eradicate the debt of two families victimized by gang violence. As a community leader, every year a portion of the proceeds from the Pastor’s Cup Golf Tournament are used to educate and empower the homeless in our community.

His passion for empowerment and education birthed numerous classes at Greater St. Luke Baptist Church. Various classes on Christian Education are offered in Greater St. Luke’s new state of the art 2.5 million dollar M. L. Smith Community Development Center.

Pastor Baker is a nationally known Evangelist and the renowned Author of “How to Build Without Borrowing”, which he presently teaches as a course of study during the National Baptist Convention’s Congress of Christian Education. Pastor Baker has served on the National Baptist Convention’s Late Night Service Staff. He is a lecturer and a former instructor in the Gethsemane Baptist Association.

Most importantly, Pastor Baker is a family man, a native of Jacksonville, Florida and the son of the late Reverend Dr. and Mrs. Henry L. Baker.  He is married to the former Min. Darlene Hunter, a devoted father to Michael and Michelle and a loving grandfather of two grandchildren.


Bruce Gerencser