Earlier, I posted an article about the fact that many Evangelicals contend I never was a True Christian®; that I never met the REAL JESUS. Unsurprisingly, I often get similar treatment from hardcore — dare I say, Fundamentalist — atheists. According to these atheists, I am crypto-Christian, posing as an atheist; that deep down I am still a follower of Jesus — or at the very least want to be. In their minds, all religion is bad, and the Abrahamic religions are the worst of the bunch. That I am an accommodationist and believe Jesus was a real, flesh-and-blood historical figure says to them that I haven’t left Christianity behind. That I have good things to say about my Christian past, and I am willing to commend Christians when they do good in Jesus’s name, is more proof to them that under my atheist veneer beats the heart of a man who is having a secret affair with Christianity.
Years ago, I attended an atheist meeting in Fort Wayne, Indiana, that featured theologian and atheist Robert M. Price. I thoroughly enjoyed Price’s lecture. During the Question and Answer period, one man — an outspoken atheist — challenged Price’s respect for certain aspects of Christianity. The man said, Tell me one good thing Christians have done in twenty centuries that couldn’t have been done without religion. This led to a brief back and forth between Price and his accuser. Sadly, nothing Price said made any difference to this man. He was a Fundamentalist, and one of his cardinal doctrines was that all religion was bad. He was settled in his beliefs about Christianity. He and I later got into an email skirmish about the matter. I concluded, then, that I was an atheist, but I wasn’t one of THOSE atheists. I hold to this sentiment today.
Tim O’Neill, an acquaintance of mine, is also often accused of being a crypto-Christian. Tim blogs at the History for Atheists website. If you are not a reader of Tim’s writing, I encourage you to check out his site. Good stuff. Mythicist Richard Carrier says this about fellow atheist O’Neill:
Tim O’Neill is a known liar …. an asscrank …. a hack …. a tinfoil hatter …. stupid …. a crypto-Christian, posing as an atheist …. a pseudo-atheist shill for Christian triumphalism [and] delusionally insane.
Ouch, right?
I have received numerous emails over the years from atheists angered over my friendliness towards Christianity (or my liberal political beliefs). Funny, isn’t it? Evangelicals think I am hostile towards Christianity, and some atheists believe Jesus is my secret fuck buddy. Can’t win, so I don’t try. Both sides use the No True Scotsman argument to suggest that I never was or I am not part of their club. Fortunately, my mother and my Evangelical training taught me to stand on my own two feet and not be a company man. I am more than willing to listen to honest, thoughtful critiques of my beliefs, but demand that I believe this or that or risk losing my Atheist Card, and you will learn how recalcitrant I can be. Evangelicals can at least threaten me with their mythical Hell. What are atheists going to threaten me with? Loss of their support? Loss of their comments? Please. I am almost sixty-eight years old. I am a confirmed curmudgeon. Want to be friends with me? Fine, but you take me as I am. If not, that’s okay. I have more than enough atheist, agnostic, humanist, and pagan friends to carry me safely to my grave. I am too old to worry about making new atheist BFF’s.
I will continue to write about the excesses and dangers I see in American Evangelicalism. I will continue to point out hypocritical clerics in the Black Collar Crime series. I will continue to push back against the unholy alliance between church and state. And yes, most of all, I will continue to tell my story. What I won’t do, however, is hate people just because they are religious, even if they are Evangelicals. I live in an area where seven out of ten people are registered Republicans and virtually everyone believes in Jesus. If I want to happily and quietly live in rural northwest Ohio, then I must be willing to get along with people of faith. I choose to love my neighbor as myself. I choose to have a good testimony before my Christian neighbors. I want my way of life, my words, and my friendliness towards them to be confusing. I want my life to be in direct conflict with what their pastors say atheists believe and how they live. Does anyone seriously think that I would make any difference in my community if I loudly, publicly, and angrily preached from the housetops, Jesus Never Existed! Why, they would think I was a loon.
The other day, a local Democratic party worker, who is a devoted Catholic and a friend, stopped by my home while she was out canvassing. She told me as she leaving, Bruce, you may be an atheist, but you have gospel values. I smiled as she said this to me, thanking her for the kind words. Should I have given her a lesson on where atheists derive their morals and values? Of course not. What she was telling me is that she appreciated my pro-human progressive values. I am sure my atheism doesn’t compute for her, but the manner in which I live my life and the way I am willing to speak out when it matters tells her what kind of man I am. That Fundamentalists — Christian or atheist — can’t or refuse to see and accept me as I am is their problem, not mine.
On occasion, I am asked why I seem to live on the fringe of the atheist movement. Perhaps, this post best explains why I do. I have decided to be my own man, tell my story the best I know how, and leave the results up to God, uh, I mean . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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It’s a few years since I last heard of Tim O’Neill, and I must admit to having pretty well forgotten him. Now I’m reminded I have to say that I find him far too dogmatic and overly brusque in his opinions. I’m sure that underneath it all he sees himself as an atheist doing his best to counter some of the extreme claims of other atheists (especially the Price/Carrier Jesus mythicist claim) but he’s too extreme in my view. I conversed with him on one occasion and came out feeling more battered than educated.
Bruce I always appreciate your writing. If I am not mistaken, there was once a time that Catholic and liberal was not an oxymoron, and I think we need to get back to that time.
You will never satisfy the militant atheist crowd (who in my opinion are more anti-theist than atheist). As I wrote in a former comment, George Orwell was an atheist, Joseph Stalin was an anti-theist. One wrote some of the best literature warning about a totalitarian state, the other instituted regular purges of its citizens that led to millions of deaths, most often because those citizens were suspected of not being loyal Communists.
Hence the problem with loyalty/purity tests. They give the power to the person who implements them, and the standard is always subjective. The purpose many times is to use fear and anger to make someone like yourself change their views when there is a perception that you are not hateful enough towards a disfavored group.
Like you, I find hardcore atheism to be really no different than fundamentalist religion. In many ways they have the same requirements of it’s followers, the same vitriol from the “pulpit” and in the case of the former Soviet Union, the same type of enemies (free-thinkers and homosexuals).
I don’t want to live in a society with purity tests, whether they are from the far right or the far left. Both are dangerous, regardless of the nobility of the ideology itself. And my friends are my friends, and I refuse to justify to another person who I choose to be friends with or why. If that person wants to live in that kind of society, they may be happier living in a nice place like North Korea or Iran.
I don’t like some of the meanness that I have encountered from certain hardcore antitheist atheists. Not all antitheists are so mean, but the ones that are turn me off. I personally know some religious people (Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Jainists, Bahai, Buddhists) who are really good people. I don’t believe in their religions, but I’m not going to fight them about their belief in deities. These are people whose values align with mine – if not for their belief that a deity exists, we’d completely align. I don’t see a reason to not get along with them since they aren’t trying to convert people or using their religion as a cudgel to abuse others.
Interestingly, I read an article that Gen Z is the 1st generation where nonreligious women outnumber nonreligious men. This also correlates with the fact that more Gen Z women are college-educated than Gen Z men. If any atheist/nonreligious movement wants to succeed, it can’t just be old white guys mansplaining what “true atheism” is. Heck, that doesn’t fly with me either, a Gen X woman. Enough of the dogmatism.
Hello Bruce, and I hope the Oct. weather is buoying your spirits, it is certainly doing that for me. I love the crispness of the temperature and of course the change of colors.
I appreciate your post on this subject. While I have fully supported your position and arguments about abandoning the doctrinal positions so fundamental to Christianity (I consider it a cult) that does not necessarily place all followers into a category of being “bad” or “evil” people. In fact I.M.O. most followers are “good” people searching for meaning, order and attempting to follow “moral” principles. That was my own particular experience.
I find that the “leaders” especially the Catholic, SBC, Pentacostal, Evangelical, and Prosperity Christian types, all “MEN” dominated and obviously the “Alpha Males” that control these organizations as being “The Bad Guys”. When it comes to Islam or Orthodox Jews- I find many of their shaman and societal control mechanism’s to be lunatic, just my opinion.
Your comments are suggestive of the human condition and the desire for one side or the other to impose “Their Will”.
I personally wish people would just attempt to “get along” and tolerate one another, irregardless of beliefs or ideology.
I deeply regret that the American tradition that had momentem in the mid to late 20th century, of secular education and a belief in academics, education and science is being abandoned, or replaced with more archaic principles and beliefs and that “religon / worship” is evolving into political and nationalistic ideology, in the USA and to a significant degree, in the “West” in general.
We humans are an odd lot. Language, Cultural Practices, Resources, Spiritual Beliefs, Nationalism, Racism, and of course plain old Greed, keeps us at each others throats.
Sadly, I suspect that a Trump victory, should it happen, will reverse the American Experiment and Experience severely, if not permanently.
Hate, paranoia and intolerance does trump (yes an intentional play on words) peaceful coexistence, one need only study a little history to understand that. So many virulant forms of that, just look at Russia / Ukraine, Jew / Arab, Shia / Sunni and the countless other internecine conflicts that are on-going around the planet, courtesy of “human”
constructs. Myself, I do find legitimacy in the so called “Doomsday” clock being so close to midnight, for a species that claims to be the “Highest Order” of life on this planet, I find the truth to be rather different.
Anyway, thank you for the post. Enjoy the weather.
I agree with you Bruce. I still have a number of Christian friends whose friendship I value all the more since coming out. They’re good people and I respect their beliefs that prompt them to act in loving ways (or maybe they’re like that irrespective of their religion). Unfortunately, there are other Christian friends who shun me and won’t acknowledge or correspond with me. I find that really sad but their conditioning just won’t allow it. It’s people like these who turn people away Christianity.
I appreciate your example to stand on your own two feet and be against the absolutism in both religious and anti-theist groups. John S. comments are correct, so are those of Obstalechick about both religious groups and some anti-theist groups. I do not fit in any group, and I also have serious health problems. I get inspiration from you even as my cat walks across the keyboard when I am trying to type a comment.
@ GEOFFT Well, all I can say is I make a consistent point of being civil with people, up to and usually well past the point they get uncivil with me. After that, I reserve the right to be less polite. I have no idea who you are and so have no recollection of any exchange with you. So I can’t comment on how “extreme” I may or may not have been or why you would feel “battered”. All I ever do is explain the consensus views of historians on various historical topics. How that is “extreme” I have no idea. I can (eventually) lose patience with people who cling dogmatically to historical myths and fringe theories, but I’d say that says more about them than me. Have a nice day.
One thing I’ve learned in my 64 years on this earth is that there are pros & cons to everything & nothing is all-good nor all-bad. But there’s plenty of people who think in those terms & are incapable of thinking in any other terms. Unfortunately, they’re generally the kind of people who are committed to making others think as they do. Atheist or believer, dealing with them gets old fast.
I have been an atheist for more years than I believed. Yet some of my friends, old and new, are believers of one kind or another. I respect their beliefs because that is exactly what they are: They cannot be confirmed or denied because the evidence isn’t there. When you think about it, they believe for exactly the reason I don’t. So how can I denigrate them for coming to a conclusion different from mine?
They are my friends because they are kind and loving. That is the sort of person I try to be. Really, there isn’t any other basis for a friendship.