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Tag: Evangelicalism

Do Evangelicals Interpret the Bible?

Bruce Gerencser 18 Comments
the bible rock of gibraltar

The Bible is certainly more than 3 words. What that word ‘every’ is telling you is that from Genesis to Revelation every word of the Bible came from the mouth of God. It did not come from the human writers God used but from God himself.

That means that the believer is to live by Genesis 1 all the way to Revelation 22. Those are the words that God has spoken to us. Those are the words we are to live by not what unbelieving science or scientists say but by what God told us in his divine book.

This also removes the option of living by interpretation. As Peter has told us, the word of God is not by private interpretation. We are to find the truth of what God is saying and live by that truth.

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Private interpretation is not allowed with scriptures. That is one of the reasons why we have over 40,000 ‘Christian’ denominations.

They do not live by every word that comes from God’s mouth. Instead, they live by their own private interpretation or the words of unbelievers. It is time to change and get back to the truth of the Bible and get rid of all alternatives to what God has told us in the Bible.

We are to live by the words of God while we can still do science, archaeology, and study other fields of interest, those are mere tools and have no authority over God or his words. if you want to live for eternity with God, then live correctly by his words.

— Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory God, We Will Follow the Science, March 24, 2023

Thiessen believes that Christians should just believe the Bible as written, and never interpret its words and teachings. This is a common Evangelical belief. The Bible is considered different from all other written works. Its words are written by God, not men or women. While Evangelicals have a variety of explanations for how the Bible came to be, all of them believe the Biblical text is the words of God — inspired, inerrant, and infallible.

From 1995-2002, I pastored Our Father’s House in West Unity, Ohio. One Sunday night, several new families came to visit the church. After the service, I struck up a conversation with one of the men. He asked me what I believed about a theological issue (I can’t remember the exact subject). We chatted back and forth for a bit, and then I told him that I had a book that I would be glad to loan him on the subject. He replied, “No thanks. The Bible is all I need.” These families didn’t visit again. I suspect I was too liberal for them; you know, I read books.

Any time we read something, we are interpreting the words of the text. Words have meanings, and we must make interpretations to determine what written texts mean. Individual interpretations will vary, sometimes wildly so. I have been writing for sixteen years — millions of words. While I do my best to write in a way so people will clearly understand what I am trying to say, it is not uncommon for people to “interpret” my words differently from the way I intended. Since I am a living author, these misunderstandings can be easily corrected by just asking me, “Bruce, what did you mean when you said ___________?” On occasion, I will write something, send it off to Carolyn to be edited, and she will return it with a note that says “is this what you meant to say?” Sometimes, I reply, “yes, that’s what I meant to say.” Other times, I correct the text so it means what I intended to say. Carolyn has been my editor for years. She has a good handle on how I think and how I use certain words.

We, of course, don’t have access to the authors of the sixty-six books of the Protestant Christian Bible. Even if I were to believe that “God” wrote the Bible, he’s inaccessible. Ask him what he meant to say in this or that verse and his reply is silence. For the past 2,000 years, believers and unbelievers alike have been interpreting the Bible. The moment we read a word, verse, text, or book, we are interpreting it.

Thiessen decries the fact that there are thousands of Christian sects, each with their own interpretations of the Bible, yet is this not what he does in his own life? I question whether Thiessen is a member of a local Christian congregation. If he is, he is part of a church/sect that interprets the Bible a certain way. Theissen demands that people accept that the Bible says this or that. Is he not saying that everyone must interpret the Bible as he does?

Of course, Theissen denies that he interprets the Bible; he just believes it. Such thinking is absurd. To believe is to interpret. Otherwise, one ends up believing that one’s beliefs perfectly align with what God (the Bible) says. This kind of teaching is dangerous, leading to all sorts of dangerous cultic beliefs. Evangelical misogyny, bigotry, racism, and hate rest on the notion that the words of God and the beliefs of God’s chosen ones are one and the same. This is why interpretation is essential to understanding what the Bible possibly says.

The Bible is a collection of ancient religious texts written thousands of years ago. The authors are dead, so we can’t quiz them about what they meant to say. All we can do is interpret their writings. We are blessed to have books, software, language tools, and commentaries to guide our understanding of the Bible. Thiessen uses these tools, so it is disingenuous for him to say he doesn’t interpret the Bible. All of us are influenced by the authors we read. None of us is a blank slate free from external influence. Every book we read, every video we watch, and every podcast we listen to influences our thinking and understanding. (Even if someone says he is following the direction of the Spirit, he is interpreting what he perceives to be the Spirit’s leadership.) All any of us can do is rationally and skeptically read and study the Bible, coming to reasoned, thoughtful conclusions about what the text says. Most important is humility. I may come to a conclusion about what a particular text says, but I am humble enough to know that I could be wrong.

“God said it, I believe it, that settles it,” thinking has called untold harm. The Bible can be a source of blessing, encouragement, and help, but far too often it is a tool of hurt and destruction.

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Quenching the Holy Spirit, A Stick in the Hands of Authoritarian IFB Preachers

Bruce Gerencser 2 Comments
indwelling of the holy spirit

If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you. (Ephesians 4:21-32)

The Apostle Paul told the church at Ephesus not to grieve (quench) the Holy Spirit by participating in sinful behaviors. According to verses 22-24, Christians are those who have put off their old lives and embraced the new life they have in Christ Jesus. Christians are new creations, created in righteousness and holiness.

Specifically, Paul said followers of Jesus were to:

  • Stop lying, and always speak the truth
  • Never let the sun go down on their wrath
  • Never give place to the Devil
  • Never steal, making an honest living by their own hands so that they can meet the needs of others
  • Never let corrupt communication come out of their mouths
  • Put away bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, evil speaking, and malice
  • Not be wrathful
  • Not be angry
  • Be kind, tenderhearted, forgiving

Failing to diligently keep these commands leads to Christians quenching the Holy Spirit — the third person in the Trinity who lives inside of every believer. To quench the Spirit, then, means suppressing (reducing to an ember) the power, influence, direction, and control of the Holy Ghost in believers’ lives. In other words, finite, sinful beings can hinder the work of an infinite God in their lives by behaving certain ways.

Here’s what Got Questions? has to say on the matter:

The Holy Spirit is a fire dwelling in each believer. He wants to express Himself in our actions and attitudes. When believers do not allow the Spirit to be seen in our actions or we do what we know is wrong, we suppress or quench the Spirit. We do not allow the Spirit to reveal Himself the way that He wants to.

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To grieve the Spirit is to act out in a sinful manner, whether it is in thought only or in both thought and deed.

Both quenching and grieving the Spirit are similar in their effects. Both hinder a godly lifestyle. Both happen when a believer sins against God and follows his or her own worldly desires. The only correct road to follow is the road that leads the believer closer to God and purity, and farther away from the world and sin. Just as we do not like to be grieved, and just as we do not seek to quench what is good—so we should not grieve or quench the Holy Spirit by refusing to follow His leading.

I was raised in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement, attended an IFB Bible college in the 1970s, and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. I heard numerous sermons about quenching the Holy Spirit, and preached a few myself. Far too often, “quenching the Spirit” was used as a stick to beat church members into submission.

Take Tony Hutson, pastor of Middle Tennessee Baptist Church in Murfreesboro, Tennessee:

Video Link

Hutson is known for telling fanciful stories (AKA lies), so take his illustration with a grain of salt. He wants his congregants to know that if God (the preacher) tells them to do something, they better do it lest they quench the Holy Spirit, and God has to discipline (abuse them with a leather belt) or kill them.

IFB pastors are known for their authoritarian tendencies. Hutson, and others like him, are control freaks. Believing they are supernaturally “called by God” to preach the words of a supernatural book to frail, sinful followers of Jesus Christ, IFB preachers expect church members to obey and practice what they say. If believers refuse to do so, they are quenching the Spirit.

When people think for themselves and voice their differences of opinion, IFB preachers often tell them that they are getting in the way of what God is trying to do; that they are standing in the way of the Holy Ghost doing something great. Often, IFB preachers will subtly threaten those who are quenching the Spirit with judgment, suffering, loss, and death. All because someone disagrees with them.

The goal of preaching on “quenching the Spirit” is to whip congregants into conformity so preachers can advance their agendas. What is really going on, of course, is that no matter how hard IFB preachers try to quash uniqueness and freedom of thought, congregants refuse to comply. You would think, if the Holy Spirit is what Evangelicals say he is, everyone would interpret the Bible the same way; think the same way; live the same way. That they don’t suggests that the Holy Spirit is a myth; that churches are groups of individuals working towards common objectives. There will always be differences of opinion. Healthy churches allow for freedom of thought and belief, even when congregants disagree with their pastors.

Pastors are not always right. The “Holy Spirit” led me to make bad decisions. I wish people had spoken up or questioned the path down which I was leading the church. Instead, when we had business meetings, people just sat there, nodded their heads, and acquiesced to my will. Conditioned and indoctrinated by years of IFB preaching, church members thought they should follow my leadership at all times; that if I, as the man of God, was led by the Holy Spirit, who were they to stand in the way of what “God” wanted to do? The last thing they want to do was “quench the Spirit,” and risk punishment from God and estrangement from their fellow Christians.

Did your pastor preach on “quenching the Spirit?” Was this teaching on prominent display in the churches you attended? Please share your experiences in the comment section.

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Sounds of Fundamentalism: IFB Evangelist John R. Rice Says He Would Violently Beat His Grown Daughters if They Disobeyed Him

Bruce Gerencser 4 Comments
john r rice and jack hyles
John R Rice of Sword of the Lord Fame and Jack Hyles

The Sounds of Fundamentalism is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section.  Let’s have some fun!

Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is a video clip of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist and editor of the Sword of the Lord John R. Rice saying he would beat his adult daughters if they didn’t obey him.

Video Link

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

Black Collar Crime: Man Pulls Out Hunting Knife During Bible Study, Repeatedly Stabs His Wife, Killing Her

Bruce Gerencser 2 Comments
robert castillo

The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

Robert Castillo and Corrina Woodhull came to Cartillo’s sister’s home for a Bible study on Tuesdays. During this week’s Bible study, Castillo pulled out a hunting knife, and repeatedly stabbed Woodhull, killing her.

The Pioneer Press reports:

A man fatally stabbed his wife during Bible study at a St. Paul residence, according to a murder charge filed Thursday.

Robert Castillo, 40, and Corrina Woodhull, 41, were sitting on a couch in the Payne-Phalen home when Castillo whispered something in Woodhull’s ear. After she shook her head “no,” Castillo pulled out a knife and stabbed her multiple times, a criminal complaint said.

Witnesses didn’t hear what Castillo said to Woodhull. The couple was no longer together because they were having marital problems, Castillo’s brother told police.

Woodhull had been trying to get away from Castillo, but he kept asking her for another chance, said Erin Honken, a friend of Woodhull’s for about 14 years who’d been her current roommate.

Family members of Castillo got him to stop stabbing Woodhull and wrestled him to the floor. Woodhull said, “Don’t let me die” to another person in the home who provided aid to her, the complaint said.

Police were called to the 1000 block of East Maryland Avenue about 9 p.m. Tuesday and arrested Castillo.

Officers provided medical aid to Woodhull, who said she couldn’t breathe. Paramedics took Woodhull to Regions Hospital, where she was pronounced dead about 9:40 p.m. Tuesday.

Woodhull leaves behind five children — three are minors and two are young adults, Honken said.

….

Castillo’s sister, who lives at the residence, told police they host Bible study at the home every Tuesday night and Woodhull and Castillo came over for it. They “were acting normally” and Castillo held Woodhull’s hand and kissed her, the complaint said.

They’d been at the home for about 90 minutes before the stabbing and Castillo’s brother also said he hadn’t seen “signs of hostility.” When he returned from the bathroom, he saw Castillo standing over Woodhull with a knife in his hand.

Castillo’s sister said she saw Castillo stab Woodhull with a hunting knife with a 6-inch blade. She grabbed Castillo’s hair and tried to pull him off Woodhull. Other family members also intervened and disarmed him.

Two witnesses estimated Castillo stabbed Woodhull 20 times and another said it was about 10 times. An autopsy found she had a stab wound to her chest that penetrated her breast and heart, and additional sharp force injuries to her face, chest and upper extremities.

Castillo’s sister told police that he “had a thing about carrying a knife all the time to protect himself.”

She previously saw Castillo hit a different woman, the mother of his child, with a hammer. It also happened at her home. She said it “was a long time ago and she thought Castillo was getting better,” according to the complaint.

Castillo received a 10-year sentence for the assault with a hammer, which happened in 2014, and he was on intensive supervised release. At the time of Tuesday’s stabbing, he had an active Department of Corrections warrant for alleged violations of conditions of his release.

….

The Ramsey County attorney’s office charged Castillo with intentional second-degree murder, not premeditated, and he could face an increased sentence because of his past convictions for violent crimes.

An attorney for Castillo declined comment. Castillo is being held in the Ramsey County jail and his bail was set at $5 million.

Castillo has eight prior felony convictions.

In addition to the DOC warrant, he had a warrant for failing to appear in court on a charge that he assaulted a correctional employee while he was in the Stillwater prison in 2020 for the 2014 assault.

In 2001, Castillo was charged with first-degree assault for stabbing a 22-year-old man in his back, head and neck in Vadnais Heights. Castillo accused the man of telling his girlfriend he’d brought another woman to their apartment complex, according to a criminal complaint.

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

Black Collar Crime: IFB Pastor Ken Shaver Accused of Stealing Over $10,000 From Church

Bruce Gerencser 1 Comment
pastor ken shaver

The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

Ken Shaver, pastor of Greater Vision Baptist Church in Utica, Kentucky, stands accused of stealing more than $10,000 from the church.

The Owensboro Times reports:

An Owensboro pastor is facing a felony theft charge after police allege he spent more than $10,000 of church money without approval, according to Kentucky State Police.

Kenneth Alan Shaver, 62, of Utica, was arrested Tuesday and charged with Theft by Unlawful Taking or Disposition of Property $10,000<$100,000.

Shaver is a pastor at Greater Vision Baptist Church, according to their website.

According to the arrest citation, Shaver “was found to have fraudulently spent a dollar amount exceeding $10,000.” The funds belong to the church operating fund, and the purchases were not approved, according to the citation.

Shaver’s church bio states:

Ken Shaver has the great privilege of being pastor to the wonderful people of Greater Vision Baptist Church. With a desire to serve the Lord, Who is worthy of our lives, Pastor Shaver believes that God can and will do great and mighty things through His people in Owensboro, Kentucky.

In fact, he has had a great burden and vision for Kentucky since the Lord called him to preach in 2000. He answered that call by going to Hopkinsville, Kentucky and starting the Greater Cumberland Baptist Church, whose first Sunday was the week of 9/11. This church plant in the Fort Campbell area greatly impacted the military community there and many were saved, discipled, and several have even gone into ministry and the mission field. This ministry continues to thrive under the pastorate of his son-in-law, Paul Edes. The Lord is still doing an eternal work through this church plant.

After 18 years in his first pastorate, the Lord moved him and his wife, Robyn, to the Owensboro area to pastor Greater Vision. God is stretching Pastor Shaver’s vision on a broader scale, and he believes Western Kentucky can be the place where God will send a mighty revival to His people. He is confident that what the Lord has begun in Owensboro, in Western Kentucky, He will continue and expand. The Lord asks His people to be faithful, and Pastor Shaver’s heart’s desire is to be a faithful servant all his days.

Not going into the ministry until he was 41, his prior secular jobs as Black Hawk helicopter pilot, air traffic controller, and international air traffic training manager provide him with many opportunities to relate to a diverse group of people; as well as compel him to use the rest of his life in the service of the Lord.

Pastor Shaver and his wife, Robyn, have been richly blessed with four faithful children, and a multitude of amazing grandchildren. He and his family look forward to sharing in the blessings of God as they serve Him all over the United States.

Shaver previously pastored Greater Cumberland Baptist Church in Hopkinsville, Kentucky.

In 2019, the Messenger-Inquirer had this to say about Shaver:

Ken Shaver learned to fly before learning to preach.

Shaver is a former Black Hawk helicopter pilot who has been pastoring Greater Vision Baptist Church, 4733 Sutherland Road, for about three months.

Shaver, an Ohio native, joined the Army in 1978 straight out of high school and initially started out as a clerk.

It was a friend who persuaded him to take the test together that would allow them into the flight program.

“…I said, ‘I’ve never even been in a helicopter. Are you kidding?’” said Shaver about when his friend suggested the idea.

….

From there, Shaver was sent to flight school at Fort Rucker in Alabama and from there was stationed at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.

And at that time, the Army’s Bell UH-1 Iroquois helicopter, nicknamed the “Huey” and best known for its use in the Vietnam War, was the standard utility fighting aircraft.

Shaver learned to fly the single-engine Huey before becoming among the first to pilot the twin-engine Black Hawk, which dramatically changed and improved helicopter flight combat.

….

During his 14 years in the Army — seven active duty and seven in the Army National Guard — Shaver logged just under 2,500 hours in the air.

While serving in the National Guard, Shaver was hired by the Federal Aviation Administration and worked his way up to the international air traffic manager. He was in charge of training foreign governments such as Morocco, The Bahamas and Egypt.

“We would go to help establish or improve a country’s aviation program,” Shaver said.

Shaver and his family were living in Oklahoma when he was “called to preach” at age 41.

Shaver said he was still working at the FAA but made the decision to leave a lucrative job for the ministry.

“(God) started dealing with my heart,” said Shaver, who’s now 59. “And I was a very happy man; I’ve lived a happy life; I had a great career and I was making big-time money; my future was set.”

But in 2001, Shaver returned with his family back to Fort Campbell to start a church.

“One of my greatest joys is that my wife and my kids never complained,” he said.

It was in the fall of 2001 that he converted a dance studio into what became Greater Cumberland Baptist Church.

“I quit my job; I took a $100,000 a year pay cut and moved to Hopkinsville, Kentucky,” he said. “…Our first Sunday was the week of 9/11.”

Shaver said the church became a home to many soldiers and their families.

….

Shaver said he’s trying to establish a veterans family care program that would help the families of the soldiers currently deployed from the Maj. Gen. (Ret) Dean Allen Youngman Owensboro National Guard Readiness Center.

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: You Can’t be Saved if You Don’t Wear Sex-Appropriate Clothing

Bruce Gerencser 40 Comments
christians attack lgbt people

Too many people are accepting and supporting the drag queen movement to the mainstream where it doe snot belong.

In fact, according to the Bible, drag queens do not belong anywhere in society and this behavior is very wrong. There are those Christians who dismiss the OT as if it does not exist. They only go by the NT which doe snot make as explicit comments as the OT does.

In Deut. 22:5 we have God command about this issue:

A woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God. (NASB)

Their attitude is why we wrote the post The OT in the NT and click on those words to get to that article. We will challenge anyone to show in the NT where God changed his mind or what is an abomination to him.

We want them to properly exegete any passage they find that makes it okay to disobey this command in the OT.

….

Men are to be men and women are to be women. That boundary is not to be crossed at any time. There are people out there who say women can wear men’s clothing but their reasoning is all wrong and they are ignoring God’s instructions.

….

This topic may bring up the arguments of traditional clothing, i.e. kilts in Scotland.

All those situations do is tell everyone that somewhere in the deep history of a society, civilization, or nation, people began to ignore God and his feelings and dressed the way they wanted to. it just happens that those items of clothing made it to the 20th and 21st centuries.

Adding cultural practices to those changes in clothing styles does not make cross-dressing good or right. What is wrong in the beginning is also wrong centuries down the road. But that classification of wrong must go by God’s declaration, not someone’s personal preference.

This situation is not helped when famous fashion designers start to market women’s clothing to men. We are not going to be one of those people who say ‘what you do in your own home is up to you.’

If it violates God’s commands then it is wrong when done in public and wrong when you do it at home. But here is the clincher. Dressing in drag, male or female, is not the unpardonable sin. Drag queens can find forgiveness if they truly repent of ALL their sins and give up their desires to be drag queens.

They will need to let Jesus totally redeem them and make them new creatures. Repentance and redemption do not work if the sinner hangs onto their sins. This goes for homosexuals and transgenders as well as other members of the LGBTQ community.

You have to love Jesus more than your sins to receive repentance and redemption and all of this is done by the grace of God. If you want a new life, you have to totally get rid of the old (this does not mean getting a divorce or similar actions).

— Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, The Rise of Drag Queens, March 21, 2023

Thiessen is a certified homophobe. He’s hardly unique, in this regard. Such people say they believe in salvation by grace, but when it comes to gay people, transgender people, drag queens, and the like, all of a sudden, salvation by grace is abandoned. Thiessen adds terms to the gospel, terms that are not found in the Bible. This reveals that what is really going on here is bigotry, not concern over the spiritual welfare of LGBTQ people and drag queens. Either Thiessen has latent homosexual desires he is rebelling against, or he finds LGBTQ people sickening and revolting. Unable to just let people live, he condemns them using a bigot turd covered in a golden patina of religious verbiage.

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: You Don’t Have to Know Anything About Science to Discredit Evolution

Bruce Gerencser 7 Comments
teaching creationism

The truth is, you do not have to be a scientist to be qualified to speak on evolution. One reason is that evolution is not scientific. As we have stated in many of our articles exposing evolution as a false theory, there has not been one true scientific experiment that can be described as being evolutionary.

Every scientific experiment has been non-evolutionary. The second reason why non-scientists are qualified to speak about evolution is that it is false teaching. Every Christian who knows the truth can pick out the false elements of evolution and expose it for what it is. One does not need to be a scientist to do that.

They just need to know the truth and stick with that. The Bible has taught everyone about false teaching, false teachers, and false prophets, and how to spot them. There is no better teacher than Jesus or God.

— Dr. David Tee, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, You Do Not Need to be a Scientist, March 22, 2023 (David Tee is not an actual Dr., but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. His real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen,)

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

The Holy Spirit: Cessationism and Non-Cessationism

Bruce Gerencser 3 Comments
feeling the holy spirit

The Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost is the third person — an incorporeal spirit — in the Trinity: God, the father, God, the son, God, the Holy Spirit. I grew up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. IFB churches are Evangelical theologically. After high school, I attended Midwestern Baptist College — an IFB institution in Pontiac, Michigan. While at Midwestern, I met a beautiful, dark-haired preacher’s daughter. The summer between our sophomore and junior years, we married, and the following year we left college, beginning a twenty-five-year journey pastoring churches.

As a Baptist, I was taught that the Holy Spirit was instrumental in salvation, lived inside of believers after salvation as our teacher and guide in everything pertaining to life and godliness, and, on occasion, endued us with the power to do mighty exploits in Jesus’ name. Pastors and church members frequently talked about being “led by the Spirit” or the Holy Spirit showing them the will of God for their lives. I would maintain these beliefs about the Holy Spirit until the late 1990s when my pneumatology — the branch of Christianity concerned with the Holy Spirit — changed.

Evangelicals fall into two categories when it comes to the “gifts of the Spirit”: cessationist and non-cessationist (continuationism). In the gospels and the book of Acts, we find Jesus and his disciples performing miracles and engaging in other supernatural acts such as speaking in languages they hadn’t learned. In Mark 16:16-20, we find these amazing verses:

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Several things stand out in this passage of Scripture. First. Jesus commands his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Second, Jesus explains what is required for unbelievers to be saved: he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. Third, Jesus says that certain “signs” shall follow those who believe and are baptized: cast out devils, speak with new tongues, take up [poisonous] serpents, drink any deadly thing and it shall not hurt them, and lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

After Jesus said these things, he ascended to Heaven, never to be seen again. What did Jesus’ disciples do? They immediately followed Christ’s command to preach the gospel everywhere, and signs (as mentioned in Mark 16) confirmed that their words were true.

Cessationists believe that the signs mentioned in Mark 16 and others throughout the Biblical text ceased after Jesus ascended to Heaven and the Holy Spirit was given to believers in Acts 2, on the Day of Pentecost. I always found it interesting that Jesus told his disciples about specific signs that would follow them as they preached the gospel, yet the moment he ascended to Heaven, he sent the disciples a text that said, “Ha! Ha! Forget all that sign stuff I was talking about.”

While cessationists certainly believe that God, through the Holy Spirit, can do miraculous things, such things are extraordinary, not the norm. Baptists, for the most part, are cessationists.

Non-cessationists: Pentecostals, Charismatics, Apostolics, United Pentecostals, and other Evangelical sects, believe spiritual gifts are valid and in force today. According to them, the miracles Jesus, the apostles, and the early church performed can still be done today by Jesus’ followers. Thinking about sign gifts among non-cessationists has evolved over the years. Today? No sign or miracle is out of bounds. Turn on any Christian TV channel, and you will see this illustrated firsthand. Crazy stuff, to be sure, but is it really any crazier than casting out devils, speaking with new tongues, taking up [poisonous] serpents, drinking any deadly thing and it shall not hurt them, and laying hands on the sick, and they shall recover?

Who is right? Cessationists and non-cessationists, both appeal to the Bible as justification for their beliefs. Both sides seem to be right, depending on which passage of Scripture you are reading. Gallons of metaphorical blood has been spilled between cessationist and non-cessationist Christians. Both sides demean the other, even going so far as cessationists saying that some non-cessationists are demon-possessed or headed for Hell.

I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I embraced the cessationist beliefs of the churches I grew up in. As a college student, I took one class on pneumatology — a boring, cursory, Sunday school-level class on the Holy Spirit.

The summer after my freshmen year of college, I happened to be at the county courthouse in downtown Bryan. While walking towards the courthouse, I was accosted by a Pentecostal preacher who started quizzing me about my religious beliefs. I was quite happy to share with him my testimony; that I was a Bible college student, preparing to be a pastor. Toward the end of his interrogation, he asked me whether I had been “baptized with the Holy Ghost.” I had no idea what he meant.

Over the years, I would interact with other Christians about the Holy Spirit. As a general manager for Arthur Treacher’s in the early 80s, I got into a discussion with a Church of Christ preacher at the restaurant about salvation. I remember him telling me, “Baptists wouldn’t know the Holy Spirit if he met them in the middle of the road!” We went back and forth, citing Bible verses. Neither of us budged an inch. Certainty met certainty over Fish and Chips. 🙂

In the early 90s, as I was preaching on a street corner in downtown Zanesville, a city bus driver pulled his vehicle up to the corner, opened the door, and beckoned me to come close. He said to me, “have you been baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and spoke in tongues as a sign that your sins have been forgiven?” I replied, “no.” He then said to me, “You seem like a nice guy, preacher. Too bad you aren’t saved.” And with that, he closed the bus door and drove off.

In 1995, I started a new church, Our Father’s House, in the rural Ohio village of West Unity. By that time, I was a Calvinist. As I continued to devour Calvinistic books and listened to Calvinistic sermons, I came across non-cessationists such as John Piper, Wayne Grudem, Greg Boyd, Martyn Lloyd Jones, and others. Their view of spiritual gifts made sense to me; that God was still in the business of working miracles. While I rejected the nonsense seen in Charismatic churches, I came to see that I was boxing God in by not accepting that it was still possible for the Holy Spirit to work in and through his church as he did in the first century. For the latter part of my time in the ministry, I was much more open to what God could do through me and among the people I pastored.

In the late 1980s, I realized that I had been living a sheltered life. Up until then, I had only attended IFB churches. Outside of attending a Methodist church service in 1972 for the purpose of trying to get a redheaded girl to go on a date with me, I had never attended a non-IFB church. I was thirty years old before I visited an Evangelical church that was not affiliated with the IFB church movement.

I was pastoring Somerset Baptist Church in Mount Perry, at the time — a church I planted in 1983 — when I visited my first non-IFB church. Due to budget-breaking increases in propane prices, we decided not to have services on Sunday evenings. This afforded me the opportunity to visit other churches. Sometimes, I preached for other churches on Sunday nights. I also visited other churches: Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Amish Mennonite, Charismatic, and mainline congregations, to name a few. I also visited a plethora of non-denominational churches. Sometimes I went alone, other times, my family or members from our church went with me. These experiences exposed me to Christianities I knew very little about. I learned beliefs about the Holy Spirit were varied, sometimes wildly so. These visits opened me up to the wonderful, rich Christian community. They also, however, left me with the question: if there is “one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism,” why are there so many varied beliefs, with each sect, church, pastor, and congregant believing they are right?” Maybe this was when my “doubts” first began. As with many Evangelicals-turned-atheists, the longer I am away from Christianity and the more I think about my years as a believer, I start to see cracks in my faith and beliefs that I hadn’t noticed before.

Did your understanding of the Holy Spirit change over time? Please share your experiences in the comment section.

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Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Late 80s, started attending different churches — had no experience

The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Lives of Evangelical Christians

Bruce Gerencser 20 Comments
indwelling of the holy spirit

What do Evangelicals mean when they say that they are “indwelt” by the Holy Spirit? The Got Questions website — the go-to place for Evangelicals when they have theological questions — defines the indwelling of the Holy Spirit this way: the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the action by which God takes up permanent residence in the body of a believer. Simply put, when unregenerate sinners are saved/born again the third part of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, permanently moves into their lives, becoming their ever-present teacher and guide. The Holy Spirit filled the God-shaped hole in their hearts. He is an ever-present reality in their lives, even when they sin. Evangelicals can grieve the Holy Spirit by their actions, but they can’t make him move out and leave them alone. According to proponents of once-saved-always-saved, Bruce Gerencser, the Evangelical-turned-atheist is still a Christian. The Holy Spirit — also called the Holy Ghost — still resides inside of me, although he seems to be upset and pissed off about my godlessness and sinful behavior these days. 🙂

There ya have it. That’s what all Evangelicals everywhere believe about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit! Thanks for reading. I jest. The Bible says in Amos 3:3: How can two walk together unless they are agreed? While Evangelicals generally believe the Holy Spirit indwells all believers, their beliefs diverge from there. Arminians, for example, would take issue with Got Questions’ claim that the Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence in the body of believers. Arminians believe unbelievers can lose their salvation/fall from grace. Some of them believe that if a person falls from grace — looking at you Bruce — he or she can not regain their salvation. Once lost, always lost. Other Arminians think believers can fall in and out of grace, repeatedly. Years ago, when I was the manager of a Christian bookstore in Heath, Ohio, I got into a discussion with a Freewill Baptist youth pastor about the “security of the believer.” He explained his position this way: suppose he drove home on the freeway at eighty miles per hour, knowing that the speed limit was sixty-five. He knew that he was deliberately breaking the law, a violation of Romans 13:1,2:

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers [laws, police officers, speed limits]. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

If, in the course of speeding, he drove off the road, hit a bridge, and died, he would go to Hell. Why? Because the moment he chose to deliberately “sin” (break the speed limit) he lost his salvation.

The owner of the bookstore, who happened to be a member of the church I pastored, at the time, was also an Arminian. When I asked him at what point does a Christian lose their salvation? he refused to answer me. All he told me was that there was a “line,” and that if people crossed that line, the Holy Spirit moved out of their lives.

Further complicating matters is what Evangelicals call the “filling of the Spirit,” the “baptism of the Spirit,” or being “indued with power from on High.” Some Baptists (and other Evangelical sects) believe that once people are indwelt by Holy Spirit, that’s it. They believe that Christians have all of the Holy Spirit they will ever need. Other Baptists, especially Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, believe that not only can believers be indwelt by the Spirit, they can also be “filled” with the Spirit (or indued with power from of High). These special fillings are given to believers so they can do great exploits for God. I experienced the filling of the Holy Spirit many times, especially when preaching.

Charismatics, Pentecostals, and other Evangelical sects believe in what is called the “baptism of the Spirit.” Similar to the filling of the Spirit,” the baptism of the Holy Spirit — a one-time act or a repeated act, depending on the sect — leads to supernatural behavior: things such as speaking in tongues, healing people, raising the dead, and other acts that only God can do.

Are you confused? Let me add to your confusion. The “believers” in the Old Testament were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. According to many Evangelical sects, the Holy Spirit had not yet been given to believers, This didn’t happen until the Day of Pentecost as described in the Book of Acts. Until then, the Holy Spirit came “upon” believers from time to time, but did not indwell them.

You will find variations of these aforementioned beliefs among Evangelicals, each with its own take on the Holy Spirit. You would think God would have spoken clearly on such an important issue, but alas he did not. One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism? Not in Evangelicalism, where the unity of believers is subservient to being right. I have no doubt that Evangelicals who stumble upon this article will stomp their feet and say, “that’s not what I believe, or what my church believes, what my pastor believes!” 🙂

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Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Dear Evangelical Christian: I May Respect You as a Person, But I do Not Respect Your Beliefs

Bruce Gerencser 2 Comments
respect beliefs

I am a member of a Facebook group that features pictures of classic paintings and other works of art turned into user-generated memes. Many of the memes are hilarious. No subject is out of bounds, including Christianity. Recently, a group member posted a meme that made fun of Jesus. One woman, a Christian, got her panties in a twist and decided to respond with a preachy comment. She, of course, quickly received pushback, and then said that people should respect her beliefs; implying that her sincerely held beliefs were exempt from criticism and mockery; that not only should people respect her, but they should also respect her beliefs.

Evangelicals, in particular, used to receiving reverential and preferential treatment in public spaces — i.e. don’t say Jesus Fucking Christ if a preacher is nearby — are often easily offended with they receive pushback or mockery from unbelievers or non-Evangelical Christians. How dare people mock the one true religion! How dare people laugh about Jesus! How dare people ridicule an eternal God-man who was born of a virgin, walked on water, turned water into wine, healed blindness with dirt and spit, brought dead people back to life, teleported out of a room, resurrected from the dead, and ascended into the sky, never to be seen again! How dare people make jokes about a three-headed deity creating the universe in six twenty-four-hour days, 6,026 years ago! How dare people laugh at crackers and wine turned into blood and human flesh! How dare people make ribald comments about Adam & Eve being the first human beings! How dare people ROTFL about a walking, talking snake, a talking donkey, the sun standing still, a worldwide flood, and bears eating children who made fun of a preacher!

The Bible, as read and interpreted by Evangelicals, is a joke book that just keeps on giving. When Evangelicals make triumphant entries into public spaces, demanding that non-Christians respect their beliefs and not criticize or make fun of said beliefs, they shouldn’t be surprised when people ridicule their beliefs. If Evangelicals want safe spaces, I suggest they retreat to the safety of their clubhouses, places where most members believe the same nonsensical beliefs.

Blogs, of course, are not public spaces. They are as public as their owners allow them to be. Most blogs have comment policies. (You can read this site’s comment policy here.) Personally, I have no interest in the comment section being a free-for-all; a place where anyone can say whatever they want, without accountability. I want to see friendly conversations, even among people who disagree with each other. Unfortunately, the nature of my writing and my leftist, socialist, and pacifistic political views make it almost impossible to have friendly discussions with people who vehemently disagree with me. So, I don’t try. I say to prospective Evangelical, Independent Fundamentalist Baptist, right-wing Republicans, forced birthers, anti-LGBTQ people, creationists, and the like, “Here are the rules. You are free to comment if you show you can play by the rules. I will even give you one comment to say whatever you want, even if it violates the rules.” Sadly, many Evangelicals either cannot or will not play by the rules. Why? They think they should have the freedom to say whatever they want, wherever they want. When I push back on this faulty notion of theirs, I typically say to them, “Fine. I will let you say whatever ever you want IF I can come to your church on Sunday and talk about atheism.” Evangelicals squawk and moan, saying I am comparing apples and oranges. Really? Their churches and this blog are private spaces open to the public. Both have rules that govern participation. Of course, Evangelical objections reveal the real issue: they expect preferential treatment; they demand freedom for me but not thee.

When it comes to respecting people, in general, I respect everyone, regardless of their beliefs. I respect their right to believe whatever they want. I once was an Evangelical, so I understand why Evangelicals believe the things they do. Disrespecting them, as people, is not helpful if my goal is to challenge their beliefs and change their minds. That said, there are some people I don’t respect. I don’t care how nice they are to kitties and puppies. When certain Evangelicals lie about me, besmirch my character, and attack my family, I don’t respect them. The same goes for some political leaders, especially those who are part of MAGA wing of the Republican Party and the Freedom Caucus. Some people, I loathe and despise. Such people don’t deserve my respect.

I generally respect people, seeing them as fellow travelers on this journey called life. However, when it comes to their beliefs, they shouldn’t expect me to necessarily respect those beliefs if they drag them into public spaces (and this goes for my peculiar beliefs too).

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

Bruce Gerencser