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Dr. David Tee Responds to My Post About Jesus Abandoning Hospitalized Woman

Bruce Gerencser 4 Comments
woman-lying-on-hospital-crying-praying-to-jesus-with-raised

Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, took issue with a recent post of mine:

When it comes to spiritual issues and Christians, unbelievers develop some weird and absurd views. They do not grasp the subtleties involved with God’s answer to prayer. Take for example this post Jesus Abandons Christian Woman in Hospital, Leaving Her to Suffer Horrific Pain [by Bruce Gerencser]:

Over and over and over again, for two hours, an elderly Charismatic Christian woman in a hospital bed near mine, lay on her bed with hands extended to the ceiling, pleading for Jesus/God to come to her and make his presence known….

Fortunately, after two hours of crying out to Jesus, he finally showed up! Just kidding. What showed up was a nurse with a syringe filled with high-powered narcotics. Soon, the woman fell asleep, ending her pleas to God. When she awoke, family and medical staff alike comforted her so she would no longer hysterically cry out for an imaginary pain-alleviating deity. Her suffering was alleviated, not by God, but by medically trained and compassionate human beings.

It is obvious that unbelievers will not see God or Jesus behind the kind act of the nurse. They only look on the surface of events and do not look for the real action taking place behind that surface view.

Unbelievers fail to realize that God uses people thus a human would be sent with the right medication to alleviate the woman’s pain. Given the fact that deaths due to medical malp[practice [sic] are abundant, the woman receiving the right dosage of the right medicine is an act of God answering her prayers.

Why would it take so long? Well, real life does get in the way of God answering prayers. One reason is that the nurses resisted God’s leading and disobeyed. Another is that they came when they were free as they had other patients to minister aid to and other practical and real reasons.

It is not that God abandoned this woman but that he answers in his time. Unfortunately, according to the author of that post, the woman’s faith was being undermined by family and medical staff. That is another reason God’s aid was delayed.

The post goes on to denigrate God and the Bible but that is also par for the ocurse [sic] as unbelievers never see God in any result of prayer. Not because they do not believe but because they do not look for God’s behind the scenes action.

According to Thiessen, I failed to see “God or Jesus behind the kind act of the nurse.” How could I, or anyone else, for that matter, see God or Jesus behind the nurse caring for this woman? Thiessen makes a claim for which he provides no evidence. Thiessen claims that I just took a “surface” view of the situation. How could I have done otherwise? I have no tool available to me that allows me to detect Jesus/God, so I make judgments based on what I see and hear. If God is the sovereign of the universe and hears every believer’s prayer, why did it take him two hours to show up? Jesus could have immediately revealed himself to her or alleviated her pain, but he didn’t. Instead, she lay on her bed writhing in pain, pleading for Jesus to make an appearance and alleviate her suffering.

Thiessen asserts, without evidence, that the woman finally receiving the right dose of narcotics was “an act of God answering her prayers.” How could he possibly know this? It is far more likely the charge nurse had to get in contact with the doctor before giving her pain meds and this took some time to accomplish or she had already received pain meds and it was too soon for more.

Thiessen suggests that God’s tardiness (not explaining how God could be tardy or absent when he is ever present) was due to “the nurses resisted God’s leading and disobeyed” or “they had other patients to minister aid to and other practical and real reasons.” Again, Thiessen provides no evidence for his claims. He is just making shit up as he goes, trying to make God look good. I was two beds away from this woman in a ward when the events detailed in my post happened. She had nursing staff in her room the whole time. My nurse, an RN, spent thirty minutes with the woman, trying to comfort and settle her down. She had plenty of human help, but supernatural deliverance was nowhere to be found.

Thiessen claims that the woman’s family and her nurses undermined her faith, and that’s why pain relief was delayed. I have no idea how he came to this conclusion. Besides, what kind of God withholds pain relief from one of his followers because of what others did? Why should she be punished for what others do (not that they did what Thiessen alleges)?

Thiessen concludes his post by saying “Unbelievers never see God in any result of prayer. Not because they do not believe but because they do not look for God’s behind-the-scenes action.” Saying God answered a prayer is a claim. If you want me to believe a supernatural claim then you must provide sufficient evidence for your claim. Thiessen, of course, doesn’t do this. As a Fundamentalist presuppositionalist, he believes that his claims are self-evident; and that unbelievers are deliberately deaf and blind to what God is doing in the world. Sure . . . but if Thiessen wants me to accept his claims, he going to have to do more than quote Bible verses, share personal experiences, or make bald assertions for which he provides no evidence. I am not going to take his word for it, and neither should anyone else.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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The One Thing the Evangelical God Could Do to Convince Me He Is Real

Bruce Gerencser 4 Comments
amputated leg

I am often asked what evidence it would take to convince me of the existence of the Evangelical God; the God of the Bible. Some atheists refuse to answer this question, saying “God knows what evidence would convince me of his existence, so when he provides it, I’ll know it.” Fair enough. The Evangelical God is allegedly omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. If these claims are true, God knows exactly what will convince unbelievers of his existence. Yet, God is silent, outside of helping Granny find her car keys or Grandpa his hearing aids.

So what could the Evangelical God do to convince the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser that he exists? One thing. One thing that God, in all of human history, has never done. One thing that would clearly, and without ambiguity, show me that he is real. What is that one thing, you ask? I would like to see God miraculously regrow an amputated arm or leg. Do this, God, and I will admit that you are real. I may not worship you, but I will believe you exist. Regrowing an amputated limb is not enough to absolve God of his murderous, genocidal acts recorded in the Bible. I can admit this God exists without bending a knee to him.

Okay, God, the ball is in your court.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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The Atheist Hymnal: Singing a Song in Praise of Christopher Hitchens

Bruce Gerencser 7 Comments

A collaboration between Bruce Almighty and Microsoft CoPilot AI.

Here’s a song praising the late Christopher Hitchens, set to the tune of “Blessed Assurance.”

Verse 1:

Blessed with reason, Hitchens we praise,
Voice of the skeptic, lighting our ways.
Champion of truth, with courage so bright,
In the face of dogma, you stood for the light.

Chorus:

Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free,
Your words inspire, your mind a sea.
In the quest for knowledge, you led the way,
Guiding us through night to the break of day.

Verse 2:

Critic of falsehoods, fearless and strong,
In debates and writings, you righted the wrong.
With wit and wisdom, you challenged the lies,
In your legacy, the truth never dies.

Chorus:

Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free,
Your words inspire, your mind a sea.
In the quest for knowledge, you led the way,
Guiding us through night to the break of day.

Bridge:

In your prose, we find the spark,
Of a mind that left its mark.
Though you’re gone, your voice remains,
In our hearts, your spirit reigns.

Chorus:

Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free,
Your words inspire, your mind a sea.
In the quest for knowledge, you led the way,
Guiding us through night to the break of day.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Jesus Abandons Christian Woman in Hospital, Leaving Her to Suffer Horrific Pain

Bruce Gerencser 10 Comments
woman praying

Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

I see your face, Jesus!

I see you, Jesus!

Come to me, Jesus!

I see your face, Jesus!

Over and over and over again, for two hours, an elderly Charismatic Christian woman in a hospital bed near mine, lay on her bed with hands extended to the ceiling, pleading for Jesus/God to come to her and make his presence known. She had just had surgery and was in a tremendous amount of pain. Pain medications were ineffective, so she turned to Jesus — the ultimate pain reliever. As a former devout Evangelical, I understand the woman’s pleas. As a pastor suffering from chronic illness and pain, I daily pleaded with God to deliver me from my suffering; or at the very least lessen my pain so I could sleep and do the work of the ministry. Alas, not one of my prayers was answered by God. At the time, I believed that if God didn’t answer my prayers, he was using my pain and suffering to either punish me, correct me, or for his glory. God always got a free pass.

Fortunately, after two hours of crying out to Jesus, he finally showed up! Just kidding. What showed up was a nurse with a syringe filled with high-powered narcotics. Soon, the woman fell asleep, ending her pleas to God. When she awoke, family and medical staff alike comforted her so she would no longer hysterically cry out for an imaginary pain-alleviating deity. Her suffering was alleviated, not by God, but by medically trained and compassionate human beings.

I genuinely felt sorry for the woman, knowing that Jesus was not going to show himself to her; that all the prayers, Bible verses, and worship were no match for severe pain; and that narcotics are the best tool medical professionals have in their toolbox to alleviate suffering.

I understand why Evangelicals turn to Jesus when suffering, but he is little more than a placebo. Jesus has never made a pain go away. He has no power to palliate suffering. How could he? Jesus is dead. Sure, prayer/meditation/positive mental attitude/mindfulness can help reduce pain; they are, after all, placebos. If you want to put this to the test, the next time you have surgery, ask the surgeon to do it without anesthesia or ask him to NOT give you narcotic pain meds post-surgery. None of us, I suspect, is willing to do this, even Holy Ghost-filled Christians. When we are in pain, we want the best post-surgery pain relievers. We want pain relievers because they work.

Nurses kept this woman sedated for the duration of my stay. I am grateful she found relief from her pain, even if her God had nothing to do with it.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Did Jesus Invent Thought Crimes?

Bruce Gerencser 20 Comments
thought crimes

Every day, billions of humans have thoughts that they never act upon or speak out loud. We don’t have a pre-crime bureau, as in the 2002 Tom Cruise movie, Minority Report, where people are arrested, convicted, and incarcerated for their thoughts (or what they “might” do). We generally judge people based on what they do, and not what they think.

All of us have had thoughts that we would never want anyone to know. Years ago, as I was driving to nearby Defiance, I pulled up to the traffic light at the corner of Clinton St and State Hwy 15. The light was red, so my eyes turned toward the drugstore on the corner. As I surveyed its parking lot, I noticed a large dumpster. I thought, “That sure would be a good place to dump a body”! WTF, right? Where in the world did that thought come from? Am I a hopeful serial killer? Not likely. It was just a random thought, likely fueled by my TV viewing habits. Should I have been arrested for my thoughts? Of course not. I have had numerous crazy thoughts over the years; fleeting moments where my thought processes turned dark. As a depressive, I have had countless suicidal thoughts. Should I be arrested to keep me from harming myself? Most people would say no. Most people ponder killing themselves at one time or another. These thoughts come and go for most people, who don’t act upon them. I suspect most of us don’t want to live in George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four world; a world where people are routinely arrested for their thoughts by the Thought Police.

Unfortunately, many Evangelical Christians are taught that God does, indeed, judge us for our thoughts. In Proverbs 23, the Bible talks about a ruler, saying, in verse 7a, ” So as he thinks in his heart so is he (KJV). This verse is often mistranslated, misinterpreted, or misapplied, but generally, Evangelical preachers use this verse to say that “we are what we think.” They justify this use or interpretation by quoting the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:27-28:

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus said that if a man looks at a woman and lusts after her, he has committed adultery with her in his heart. In other words, Jesus judges a man for what he thinks, and not just for what he does. Just because a man looks at a woman and has a lustful thought, it doesn’t follow that he will have adulterous sex with her. Imagine if this were really true. Most of us would have committed fornication or adultery with countless people.

Talk to people who spent their formative years in Evangelicalism and you will hear how they were taught that they could sin with their thoughts; that just having a sinful thought will bring God’s judgment upon you. Evangelicals are encouraged to fill their minds with Bible verses, prayer, sermons, Christian literature, and Christ-honoring music. And when these methods fail to keep “bad” thoughts at bay, either Satan is blamed for our failure or our “flesh” is.

Were you taught that your thoughts could be “sinful”? Please share in the comment section how this thinking affected you.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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If Heaven is the Goal, Then Every Evangelical Christian Should be Pro-Abortion

Bruce Gerencser 4 Comments
noah's flood

Listen to Evangelicals justify God killing children and unborn fetuses in Noah’s Flood or other Bible stories where God either kills children/babies or commands Israel to do so, and they will eventually tell you, “at least all the children went to Heaven” (of course, a Calvinist might object to the universality of this claim, since only elect children go to Heaven after they die).

If this claim is true, it provides Evangelicals with a conundrum. If all children and fetuses go to Heaven when they die, this means that aborted zygotes and fetuses go to Heaven too. Wouldn’t it be better to abort all zygotes and fetuses, ensuring them a home in Heaven after death? Abortion provides a sure path to Heaven, as does miscarriage. This means every Evangelical should be pro-abortion. Better to abort fetuses than to have them reach the age of accountability and reject Jesus.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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The Atheist Hymnal: Loki Loves Me and Rock of Mischief, God of Jest

Bruce Gerencser 4 Comments

A collaboration between Bruce Almighty and Microsoft CoPilot AI

Loki Loves Me (sung to the tune of Jesus Loves Me)

Loki, trickster, wise and sly,
Brings the magic from the sky.
With his wit and charm so bright,
Guides us through the darkest night.

Loki loves us, this we know,
For his tales and tricks do show.
In his laughter, we find cheer,
Loki’s presence always near.

Mischief maker, bold and free,
Loki’s spirit, wild as sea.
In his stories, we delight,
Loki’s wisdom, shining light.

Loki loves us, this we know,
For his tales and tricks do show.
In his laughter, we find cheer,
Loki’s presence always near.

Rock of Mischief, God of Jesus (sung to the tune of Rock of Ages).

Verse 1:

Rock of mischief, Loki’s name,
Trickster god of ancient fame.
From Asgard to Midgard’s land,
Chaos weaves with clever hand.
Mischief’s master, sly and bold,
Stories of your deeds retold.

Chorus:

Loki, Loki, god of jest,
In your schemes, we find no rest.
Shape-shifter, with cunning art,
You play tricks upon our heart.

Verse 2:

Brother to the thunder’s might,
Yet you walk a different light.
From the shadows, you emerge,
With a smile, the world you purge.
Fire’s child, with wit so keen,
In your laughter, truth is seen.

Chorus:

Loki, Loki, god of jest,
In your schemes, we find no rest.
Shape-shifter, with cunning art,
You play tricks upon our heart.

Bridge:

In your tales, we see the spark,
Of a mind that leaves its mark.
Though your ways may seem unkind,
In your chaos, truth we find.

Chorus:

Loki, Loki, god of jest,
In your schemes, we find no rest.
Shape-shifter, with cunning art,
You play tricks upon our heart.

Did you try singing these songs? What do you think? 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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A Comment from a Canadian Christian Seminary Student

Bruce Gerencser 28 Comments
email

Originally posted in 2015

Several years ago, I received a Facebook message from a Canadian seminary student by the name of Matt. I assume he is an Evangelical. Here’s some of what he had to say:

You don’t know me. I am a seminary student at a school in Canada. One of my professors passed around your article entitled “Know it all Evangelicals” and asked the class to post a response in the class forum.

As I considered my response, I felt that if I wanted to take the assignment seriously, I should also post my response in the comments on your article . . .

. . . If you are not interested in this I completely understand and will bother you no more. I wish you all the best as you battle through your health issues. Thanks for considering my request.

Here’s the comment Matt posted to the class forum page:

Dear Bruce,

Thanks for a thought provoking article. I’ll admit that my first reaction was indignation and the inner protest that while this may refer to most Christians, it certainly doesn’t refer to me, don’t lump me in with everyone else.

I suspect that just about any Christian reading the article would feel similarly at least initially. Perhaps others would jump on the bandwagon and say, “Yeah, that is the problem with the church, they are so arrogant and they know nothing.” as though they themselves are somehow apart from and therefore better than the church.

Then I tried to think more about what you are really saying. It seems that the main problem that you outline in the article is the arrogance Christians tend to have based on their knowledge which in reality often amounts mostly to ignorance. I wonder if I really can be lumped into that category.

Perhaps in your years as a pastor you had the experience of having kids from your church go off to Bible College and then come back after a year armed with a new knowledge and a great zeal to correct the areas where you were in error in your leadership. The reality is that I was one of those kids. I recall as a Bible School student zealously inserting myself into a church conflict in the church where I grew up.

I made sure to point out to the pastor the areas where he was wrong and clearly warned him of the dangers of his behaviour. He was a man who was struggling in life, he had a teenage daughter causing a great deal of grief in his home and a church in turmoil around him and I am sure that in my great wisdom and discernment I caused far more harm than good. I look back on that incident with no small regret and hope that I have learned something since then.

Now, years later I find myself with a role of leadership and influence within the church and your article is a challenge to me. I can ask myself, “How can I be an influence for good in the church? Can I challenge the young people around me to get into their Bible, to study the scriptures and to think about what they are reading?” I think I can. The reality is that if the scriptures are true (and I believe that they are) they are worth studying and knowing. If they are truly a way to know God then this is what I should devote my life to learning and I want to influence the next generation of the church to change the reputation that we have of being arrogant and ignorant.

Thanks for your challenge.

Matt

I’m am not sure which post (s) Matt was referencing, but I do remember what I wrote. (Please see Know-it-all Christians and Why Do Evangelical Pastors Think They Know Everything.) I focused on the arrogance of many Evangelicals when it comes to them thinking they know everything. In truth, most Evangelicals know very little about theology, the Bible, the history of Christianity, and the transmission and historicity of the text they claim is divine. Even among preachers, the lack of knowledge is astounding.

I think Bart Ehrman’s books should be required reading in Evangelical churches — even more so in Evangelical Bible colleges and seminaries. Evangelicals should know where their Bible and beliefs came from and how much these beliefs have changed over the centuries. They should know that many of the claims they make for the Bible are not only laughable, but ignorant. If they are going to say that the Bible says ____________, then they should, at the very least, learn to defend and explain their assertions. In the process of learning how to defend themselves, they should expose themselves to authors and scholars outside of their sect, men such as Marcus Borg, John Dominic Crossan, John Shelby Spong, N.T. Wright, and even secular, non-Christian writers of the ilk of Bart Ehrman, John Loftus, and Robert M. Price. And that’s just for starters.

I take the Bible seriously, and those who say they believe it should do the same. I hope, in the advice that Matt gives to future congregants, he will encourage them to read outside the rut of their peculiar sect. Any belief worth having will stand examination and critique. Now, if it is really all about faith, then future Evangelical preachers such as Matt need to make that clear. They need to state that their beliefs are faith-based, and not evidence-based. This we believe, then becomes an article of faith, a shared faith, that may have some facts attached to it, but such facts are not required.

I want to thank Matt for his comment. I always appreciate it when Evangelicals make attempts to engage me on a thoughtful, professional, and intellectual level. Rarely does this happen, so I am all the more pleased when it does. His kind message to me is a reminder that my writing is often discussed far beyond the pages of this blog.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Secular Scientists Need to Repent and Follow the Bible Says Dr. David Tee

Bruce Gerencser 10 Comments
dr david tee's library
Dr. David Tee’s Massive Library

First off, we need to look at the source of scientific information. Are the people bringing us the alternative to Genesis 1 or scientific discoveries actually and truly Christian? If not then we know that they are being led by evil and are deceived people.

They are the blind trying to lead the blind. 

….

God separates education into two distinct categories—true teaching and false teaching. If the scientists are not following God and the Bible then they are not bringing true teaching to the faithful. They may mix some of the truth in with their alternative ideas but as all con men know, to deceive people you need some truth to make the con work.

….

Secular scientists and alternative believers bring a different gospel than the one Jesus and the disciples taught. They are saying that Moses is wrong but Jesus, Paul, and the apostles never corrected Moses and in fact, Jesus stated in John 5:45ff that if you do not believe Moses how can you believe his words? So believing Genesis 1 is important to one’s salvation.

Secular scientists and alternative believers do not believe Moses thus they try to alter the gospel message because they cannot bring themselves to follow God’s rule of using faith to accept a supernatural origin.

….

We have help [God and the Bible]. The secular scientist does not have this aid so we know that whatever they conclude or say is not coming from God but from evil. They do not know what the truth is.

….

There is only one way for secular science to be compatible or harmonized with scripture and that is for those in secular science to repent of their sins and get right with God then toss out all false teachings from the field of science.

God and the Bible do not humble themselves to secular scientists, science, or alternative believers. Those groups are to humble themselves and give up what is wrong. We cannot put the truth into secular science because it is not made new but a very sinful and corrupt field of research and the Bible teaches us.

….

One is not blessed by God for taking sinful words and counsel over God’s words. Here is a question I have asked many an atheist, alternative believer, and secular scientist: Where in the Bible do both God and Jesus give permission to take secular science over their words?

So far not one of the people I have asked has been able to provide an answer. 

They can’t because both God and Jesus tell us to follow them over the secular world and to use faith when we believe. We do not have to use secular science and its rules to combat secular science. We just need to know who God is and what happens if he is wrong to see that the truth lies in Genesis 1 and not with those who have rejected that passage of scripture.

It is not the amount of educational degrees behind a name that finds the truth nor is it the amount of expertise or years of doing experiments that lead us to the truth about our origins. It is following the Holy Spirit that gets us to the truth and the Holy Spirit will not contradict God or the Bible.

— Dr. David Tee, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of Scientific and Theological Ignorance, Harmonizing Science and Scripture, September 3, 2024

Bruce Gerencser