Too many people are accepting and supporting the drag queen movement to the mainstream where it doe snot belong.
In fact, according to the Bible, drag queens do not belong anywhere in society and this behavior is very wrong. There are those Christians who dismiss the OT as if it does not exist. They only go by the NT which doe snot make as explicit comments as the OT does.
In Deut. 22:5 we have God command about this issue:
A woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God. (NASB)
Their attitude is why we wrote the post The OT in the NT and click on those words to get to that article. We will challenge anyone to show in the NT where God changed his mind or what is an abomination to him.
We want them to properly exegete any passage they find that makes it okay to disobey this command in the OT.
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Men are to be men and women are to be women. That boundary is not to be crossed at any time. There are people out there who say women can wear men’s clothing but their reasoning is all wrong and they are ignoring God’s instructions.
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This topic may bring up the arguments of traditional clothing, i.e. kilts in Scotland.
All those situations do is tell everyone that somewhere in the deep history of a society, civilization, or nation, people began to ignore God and his feelings and dressed the way they wanted to. it just happens that those items of clothing made it to the 20th and 21st centuries.
Adding cultural practices to those changes in clothing styles does not make cross-dressing good or right. What is wrong in the beginning is also wrong centuries down the road. But that classification of wrong must go by God’s declaration, not someone’s personal preference.
This situation is not helped when famous fashion designers start to market women’s clothing to men. We are not going to be one of those people who say ‘what you do in your own home is up to you.’
If it violates God’s commands then it is wrong when done in public and wrong when you do it at home. But here is the clincher. Dressing in drag, male or female, is not the unpardonable sin. Drag queens can find forgiveness if they truly repent of ALL their sins and give up their desires to be drag queens.
They will need to let Jesus totally redeem them and make them new creatures. Repentance and redemption do not work if the sinner hangs onto their sins. This goes for homosexuals and transgenders as well as other members of the LGBTQ community.
You have to love Jesus more than your sins to receive repentance and redemption and all of this is done by the grace of God.If you want a new life, you have to totally get rid of the old (this does not mean getting a divorce or similar actions).
— Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, The Rise of Drag Queens, March 21, 2023
Thiessen is a certified homophobe. He’s hardly unique, in this regard. Such people say they believe in salvation by grace, but when it comes to gay people, transgender people, drag queens, and the like, all of a sudden, salvation by grace is abandoned. Thiessen adds terms to the gospel, terms that are not found in the Bible. This reveals that what is really going on here is bigotry, not concern over the spiritual welfare of LGBTQ people and drag queens. Either Thiessen has latent homosexual desires he is rebelling against, or he finds LGBTQ people sickening and revolting. Unable to just let people live, he condemns them using a bigot turd covered in a golden patina of religious verbiage.
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The truth is, you do not have to be a scientist to be qualified to speak on evolution. One reason is that evolution is not scientific. As we have stated in many of our articles exposing evolution as a false theory, there has not been one true scientific experiment that can be described as being evolutionary.
Every scientific experiment has been non-evolutionary. The second reason why non-scientists are qualified to speak about evolution is that it is false teaching. Every Christian who knows the truth can pick out the false elements of evolution and expose it for what it is. One does not need to be a scientist to do that.
They just need to know the truth and stick with that. The Bible has taught everyone about false teaching, false teachers, and false prophets, and how to spot them. There is no better teacher than Jesus or God.
— Dr. David Tee, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, You Do Not Need to be a Scientist, March 22, 2023 (David Tee is not an actual Dr., but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. His real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen,)
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost is the third person — an incorporeal spirit — in the Trinity: God, the father, God, the son, God, the Holy Spirit. I grew up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. IFB churches are Evangelical theologically. After high school, I attended Midwestern Baptist College — an IFB institution in Pontiac, Michigan. While at Midwestern, I met a beautiful, dark-haired preacher’s daughter. The summer between our sophomore and junior years, we married, and the following year we left college, beginning a twenty-five-year journey pastoring churches.
As a Baptist, I was taught that the Holy Spirit was instrumental in salvation, lived inside of believers after salvation as our teacher and guide in everything pertaining to life and godliness, and, on occasion, endued us with the power to do mighty exploits in Jesus’ name. Pastors and church members frequently talked about being “led by the Spirit” or the Holy Spirit showing them the will of God for their lives. I would maintain these beliefs about the Holy Spirit until the late 1990s when my pneumatology — the branch of Christianity concerned with the Holy Spirit — changed.
Evangelicals fall into two categories when it comes to the “gifts of the Spirit”: cessationist and non-cessationist (continuationism). In the gospels and the book of Acts, we find Jesus and his disciples performing miracles and engaging in other supernatural acts such as speaking in languages they hadn’t learned. In Mark 16:16-20, we find these amazing verses:
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Several things stand out in this passage of Scripture. First. Jesus commands his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Second, Jesus explains what is required for unbelievers to be saved: he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. Third, Jesus says that certain “signs” shall follow those who believe and are baptized: cast out devils, speak with new tongues, take up [poisonous] serpents, drink any deadly thing and it shall not hurt them, and lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
After Jesus said these things, he ascended to Heaven, never to be seen again. What did Jesus’ disciples do? They immediately followed Christ’s command to preach the gospel everywhere, and signs (as mentioned in Mark 16) confirmed that their words were true.
Cessationists believe that the signs mentioned in Mark 16 and others throughout the Biblical text ceased after Jesus ascended to Heaven and the Holy Spirit was given to believers in Acts 2, on the Day of Pentecost. I always found it interesting that Jesus told his disciples about specific signs that would follow them as they preached the gospel, yet the moment he ascended to Heaven, he sent the disciples a text that said, “Ha! Ha! Forget all that sign stuff I was talking about.”
While cessationists certainly believe that God, through the Holy Spirit, can do miraculous things, such things are extraordinary, not the norm. Baptists, for the most part, are cessationists.
Non-cessationists: Pentecostals, Charismatics, Apostolics, United Pentecostals, and other Evangelical sects, believe spiritual gifts are valid and in force today. According to them, the miracles Jesus, the apostles, and the early church performed can still be done today by Jesus’ followers. Thinking about sign gifts among non-cessationists has evolved over the years. Today? No sign or miracle is out of bounds. Turn on any Christian TV channel, and you will see this illustrated firsthand. Crazy stuff, to be sure, but is it really any crazier than casting out devils, speaking with new tongues, taking up [poisonous] serpents, drinking any deadly thing and it shall not hurt them, and laying hands on the sick, and they shall recover?
Who is right? Cessationists and non-cessationists, both appeal to the Bible as justification for their beliefs. Both sides seem to be right, depending on which passage of Scripture you are reading. Gallons of metaphorical blood has been spilled between cessationist and non-cessationist Christians. Both sides demean the other, even going so far as cessationists saying that some non-cessationists are demon-possessed or headed for Hell.
I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I embraced the cessationist beliefs of the churches I grew up in. As a college student, I took one class on pneumatology — a boring, cursory, Sunday school-level class on the Holy Spirit.
The summer after my freshmen year of college, I happened to be at the county courthouse in downtown Bryan. While walking towards the courthouse, I was accosted by a Pentecostal preacher who started quizzing me about my religious beliefs. I was quite happy to share with him my testimony; that I was a Bible college student, preparing to be a pastor. Toward the end of his interrogation, he asked me whether I had been “baptized with the Holy Ghost.” I had no idea what he meant.
Over the years, I would interact with other Christians about the Holy Spirit. As a general manager for Arthur Treacher’s in the early 80s, I got into a discussion with a Church of Christ preacher at the restaurant about salvation. I remember him telling me, “Baptists wouldn’t know the Holy Spirit if he met them in the middle of the road!” We went back and forth, citing Bible verses. Neither of us budged an inch. Certainty met certainty over Fish and Chips. 🙂
In the early 90s, as I was preaching on a street corner in downtown Zanesville, a city bus driver pulled his vehicle up to the corner, opened the door, and beckoned me to come close. He said to me, “have you been baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and spoke in tongues as a sign that your sins have been forgiven?” I replied, “no.” He then said to me, “You seem like a nice guy, preacher. Too bad you aren’t saved.” And with that, he closed the bus door and drove off.
In 1995, I started a new church, Our Father’s House, in the rural Ohio village of West Unity. By that time, I was a Calvinist. As I continued to devour Calvinistic books and listened to Calvinistic sermons, I came across non-cessationists such as John Piper, Wayne Grudem, Greg Boyd, Martyn Lloyd Jones, and others. Their view of spiritual gifts made sense to me; that God was still in the business of working miracles. While I rejected the nonsense seen in Charismatic churches, I came to see that I was boxing God in by not accepting that it was still possible for the Holy Spirit to work in and through his church as he did in the first century. For the latter part of my time in the ministry, I was much more open to what God could do through me and among the people I pastored.
In the late 1980s, I realized that I had been living a sheltered life. Up until then, I had only attended IFB churches. Outside of attending a Methodist church service in 1972 for the purpose of trying to get a redheaded girl to go on a date with me, I had never attended a non-IFB church. I was thirty years old before I visited an Evangelical church that was not affiliated with the IFB church movement.
I was pastoring Somerset Baptist Church in Mount Perry, at the time — a church I planted in 1983 — when I visited my first non-IFB church. Due to budget-breaking increases in propane prices, we decided not to have services on Sunday evenings. This afforded me the opportunity to visit other churches. Sometimes, I preached for other churches on Sunday nights. I also visited other churches: Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Amish Mennonite, Charismatic, and mainline congregations, to name a few. I also visited a plethora of non-denominational churches. Sometimes I went alone, other times, my family or members from our church went with me. These experiences exposed me to Christianities I knew very little about. I learned beliefs about the Holy Spirit were varied, sometimes wildly so. These visits opened me up to the wonderful, rich Christian community. They also, however, left me with the question: if there is “one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism,” why are there so many varied beliefs, with each sect, church, pastor, and congregant believing they are right?” Maybe this was when my “doubts” first began. As with many Evangelicals-turned-atheists, the longer I am away from Christianity and the more I think about my years as a believer, I start to see cracks in my faith and beliefs that I hadn’t noticed before.
Did your understanding of the Holy Spirit change over time? Please share your experiences in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
What do Evangelicals mean when they say that they are “indwelt” by the Holy Spirit? The Got Questions website — the go-to place for Evangelicals when they have theological questions — defines the indwelling of the Holy Spirit this way: the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the action by which God takes up permanent residence in the body of a believer. Simply put, when unregenerate sinners are saved/born again the third part of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, permanently moves into their lives, becoming their ever-present teacher and guide. The Holy Spirit filled the God-shaped hole in their hearts. He is an ever-present reality in their lives, even when they sin. Evangelicals can grieve the Holy Spirit by their actions, but they can’t make him move out and leave them alone. According to proponents of once-saved-always-saved, Bruce Gerencser, the Evangelical-turned-atheist is still a Christian. The Holy Spirit — also called the Holy Ghost — still resides inside of me, although he seems to be upset and pissed off about my godlessness and sinful behavior these days. 🙂
There ya have it. That’s what all Evangelicals everywhere believe about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit! Thanks for reading. I jest. The Bible says in Amos 3:3: How can two walk together unless they are agreed? While Evangelicals generally believe the Holy Spirit indwells all believers, their beliefs diverge from there. Arminians, for example, would take issue with Got Questions’ claim that the Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence in the body of believers. Arminians believe unbelievers can lose their salvation/fall from grace. Some of them believe that if a person falls from grace — looking at you Bruce — he or she can not regain their salvation. Once lost, always lost. Other Arminians think believers can fall in and out of grace, repeatedly. Years ago, when I was the manager of a Christian bookstore in Heath, Ohio, I got into a discussion with a Freewill Baptist youth pastor about the “security of the believer.” He explained his position this way: suppose he drove home on the freeway at eighty miles per hour, knowing that the speed limit was sixty-five. He knew that he was deliberately breaking the law, a violation of Romans 13:1,2:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers [laws, police officers, speed limits]. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
If, in the course of speeding, he drove off the road, hit a bridge, and died, he would go to Hell. Why? Because the moment he chose to deliberately “sin” (break the speed limit) he lost his salvation.
The owner of the bookstore, who happened to be a member of the church I pastored, at the time, was also an Arminian. When I asked him at what point does a Christian lose their salvation? he refused to answer me. All he told me was that there was a “line,” and that if people crossed that line, the Holy Spirit moved out of their lives.
Further complicating matters is what Evangelicals call the “filling of the Spirit,” the “baptism of the Spirit,” or being “indued with power from on High.” Some Baptists (and other Evangelical sects) believe that once people are indwelt by Holy Spirit, that’s it. They believe that Christians have all of the Holy Spirit they will ever need. Other Baptists, especially Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, believe that not only can believers be indwelt by the Spirit, they can also be “filled” with the Spirit (or indued with power from of High). These special fillings are given to believers so they can do great exploits for God. I experienced the filling of the Holy Spirit many times, especially when preaching.
Charismatics, Pentecostals, and other Evangelical sects believe in what is called the “baptism of the Spirit.” Similar to the filling of the Spirit,” the baptism of the Holy Spirit — a one-time act or a repeated act, depending on the sect — leads to supernatural behavior: things such as speaking in tongues, healing people, raising the dead, and other acts that only God can do.
Are you confused? Let me add to your confusion. The “believers” in the Old Testament were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. According to many Evangelical sects, the Holy Spirit had not yet been given to believers, This didn’t happen until the Day of Pentecost as described in the Book of Acts. Until then, the Holy Spirit came “upon” believers from time to time, but did not indwell them.
You will find variations of these aforementioned beliefs among Evangelicals, each with its own take on the Holy Spirit. You would think God would have spoken clearly on such an important issue, but alas he did not. One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism? Not in Evangelicalism, where the unity of believers is subservient to being right. I have no doubt that Evangelicals who stumble upon this article will stomp their feet and say, “that’s not what I believe, or what my church believes, what my pastor believes!” 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I am a member of a Facebook group that features pictures of classic paintings and other works of art turned into user-generated memes. Many of the memes are hilarious. No subject is out of bounds, including Christianity. Recently, a group member posted a meme that made fun of Jesus. One woman, a Christian, got her panties in a twist and decided to respond with a preachy comment. She, of course, quickly received pushback, and then said that people should respect her beliefs; implying that her sincerely held beliefs were exempt from criticism and mockery; that not only should people respect her, but they should also respect her beliefs.
Evangelicals, in particular, used to receiving reverential and preferential treatment in public spaces — i.e. don’t say Jesus Fucking Christ if a preacher is nearby — are often easily offended with they receive pushback or mockery from unbelievers or non-Evangelical Christians. How dare people mock the one true religion! How dare people laugh about Jesus! How dare people ridicule an eternal God-man who was born of a virgin, walked on water, turned water into wine, healed blindness with dirt and spit, brought dead people back to life, teleported out of a room, resurrected from the dead, and ascended into the sky, never to be seen again! How dare people make jokes about a three-headed deity creating the universe in six twenty-four-hour days, 6,026 years ago! How dare people laugh at crackers and wine turned into blood and human flesh! How dare people make ribald comments about Adam & Eve being the first human beings! How dare people ROTFL about a walking, talking snake, a talking donkey, the sun standing still, a worldwide flood, and bears eating children who made fun of a preacher!
The Bible, as read and interpreted by Evangelicals, is a joke book that just keeps on giving. When Evangelicals make triumphant entries into public spaces, demanding that non-Christians respect their beliefs and not criticize or make fun of said beliefs, they shouldn’t be surprised when people ridicule their beliefs. If Evangelicals want safe spaces, I suggest they retreat to the safety of their clubhouses, places where most members believe the same nonsensical beliefs.
Blogs, of course, are not public spaces. They are as public as their owners allow them to be. Most blogs have comment policies. (You can read this site’s comment policy here.) Personally, I have no interest in the comment section being a free-for-all; a place where anyone can say whatever they want, without accountability. I want to see friendly conversations, even among people who disagree with each other. Unfortunately, the nature of my writing and my leftist, socialist, and pacifistic political views make it almost impossible to have friendly discussions with people who vehemently disagree with me. So, I don’t try. I say to prospective Evangelical, Independent Fundamentalist Baptist, right-wing Republicans, forced birthers, anti-LGBTQ people, creationists, and the like, “Here are the rules. You are free to comment if you show you can play by the rules. I will even give you one comment to say whatever you want, even if it violates the rules.” Sadly, many Evangelicals either cannot or will not play by the rules. Why? They think they should have the freedom to say whatever they want, wherever they want. When I push back on this faulty notion of theirs, I typically say to them, “Fine. I will let you say whatever ever you want IF I can come to your church on Sunday and talk about atheism.” Evangelicals squawk and moan, saying I am comparing apples and oranges. Really? Their churches and this blog are private spaces open to the public. Both have rules that govern participation. Of course, Evangelical objections reveal the real issue: they expect preferential treatment; they demand freedom for me but not thee.
When it comes to respecting people, in general, I respect everyone, regardless of their beliefs. I respect their right to believe whatever they want. I once was an Evangelical, so I understand why Evangelicals believe the things they do. Disrespecting them, as people, is not helpful if my goal is to challenge their beliefs and change their minds. That said, there are some people I don’t respect. I don’t care how nice they are to kitties and puppies. When certain Evangelicals lie about me, besmirch my character, and attack my family, I don’t respect them. The same goes for some political leaders, especially those who are part of MAGA wing of the Republican Party and the Freedom Caucus. Some people, I loathe and despise. Such people don’t deserve my respect.
I generally respect people, seeing them as fellow travelers on this journey called life. However, when it comes to their beliefs, they shouldn’t expect me to necessarily respect those beliefs if they drag them into public spaces (and this goes for my peculiar beliefs too).
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
An Evangelical man name David sent me a message today via my Facebook Page. Here’s what he had to say (all spelling and grammar in the original):
That’s interesting. I know in my mind I wondered about my faith for a long time. I’ve seen some miraculous stuff in my lifetime as I’m sure you have too. I saw the shekinah glory move through the church isles when I was about 22 which was 32 years ago and walked away from God for along time but I always felt God tugging on me trying to bring me back. Have you every studied the evidence on both sides of evolution vs creation? There’s a lot of scientific evidence for creation and a lot of scientists who believe that God created it all and that’s how I believe also after looking at all the evidence. I’m not one of those who would say well you just really was never saved because I believe you are. The one thing that stood out to me in your conversation between the two of you that have renounced Christianity was that there’s been a lot of people that are calling themselves Christians did not do the Christian thing to either one of y’all and I get the impression that y’all are both bitter with God because of it. I hope you realize that and don’t take what broken people do and turn it on God. My hope is that one day you’ll come back to God and I will definitely pray that you do. Sorry that wife never got to experience some of the stuff you did as I’m sure sooner or later she would have. I had always had a little bit of faith even when I was running from God and it all started with offense from other people but now my faith is strong and I have no doubt God put us here and the Bible is his word due to the the underlying mathematics in the Greek and Hebrew text and just from studying the Bible in general. Bruce I will be praying for you brother as I believe you still are a Christian. You got a wonderful looking family and good luck to you sir.
I want to give David the benefit of the doubt, but I find emails, comments, and messages such as his increasingly irritating, frustrating, and condescending. While David says I have a “wonderful looking family” and wishes me luck, his email also ignores what I have publicly said and written about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism, and essentially calls me a liar (a point which I shall press in a moment).
David, as many Evangelicals do, conflates atheism with acceptance of evolution as the best explanation of the natural world. Atheism is one thing, and one thing alone: the lack of belief in the existence of gods. I wish Evangelicals would write this down on a post-it note and attach it to their computer screens; a reminder of what atheism actually is. Atheists have all sorts of beliefs — crazy beliefs, promoters of woo. Jesus, some atheists even voted for Donald Trump. Sure, atheists generally accept what science says about our biological world and the universe, but that does not mean such beliefs require atheism. Scores of Christians believe in theistic evolution or are old earth creationists. Are these followers of Jesus actually atheists too?
I am not a scientist and neither is David. Neither of us is qualified to speak authoritatively on evolution. As a former Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years, I understand creationism inside and inside. I don’t need a science education to understand creationism. Why? Creationism (and its gussied-up step-sister intelligent design) is a theological claim, not a scientific claim. Science, in fact, has repeatedly repudiated creationist claims. Sure a handful of scientists, operating from the presuppositions that the Christian God exists and the Bible is true, are creationists, but the vast majority of scientists believe evolution best explains our natural world, and that cosmology and other sciences best explain the universe.
Let me say this one more time, evolution played no part in my deconversion from Christianity. None, nada, zip. I read my first book on evolution in 2012 — Why Evolution is True by Dr. Jerry Coyne — four years after I deconverted. I have read several books about evolution since then and continue to watch YouTube videos about evolution. I have found Forrest Valkai’s video series on evolution to be quite helpful. Here’s episode one:
I generally accept scientific consensus. Since I am not a trained scientist, I am in no position to judge the work of people who have dedicated their lives to understanding our biological world. I try to educate myself and be informed as possible, but I will always be a novice. Thus, as I do with many things, I trust experts. Want to talk theology, Evangelicalism, or sex, I’m your man. Okay, maybe not that last one. No one knows everything. My late brother-in-law was a cardiologist, yet he couldn’t fix his computer or palm pilot if his life depended on it. That was my job. He trusted my expertise about computers and I trusted his expertise about medicine. That’s the way the world works. Sadly, within Evangelicalism, there are countless people who think if they read books published by Answers in Genesis and other creationist parachurch ministries, they are somehow experts on evolution. They are not, but don’t bother trying to tell them that.
Typically, when I interact with creationists, I try to get them to discuss the foundation of their creationist beliefs — the Bible. Not science, the Bible. If I can disabuse them of the notion that the Bible is in any way inerrant and infallible, then perhaps they will see that believing God created the universe in six literal twenty-four hours days, 6,026 years ago is rationally and intellectually unsustainable.
Let me conclude by answering David’s statements about my life and that of my wife, Polly. David believes that Polly and I are still Christians; that we are just bitter over harm caused to us by other Christians. David supposedly watched my video interview with the Harmonic Atheist.
Did he hear me say that I am bitter about what Christians did to me? Of course not. This is a straw man that David has built of me (and Polly) in his mind. There’s nothing in my story that suggests I was bitter towards God or Christians. I am not, by nature, a bitter person, so any claim that I am is false. If anything would make me bitter, it would be constant attacks on my character by God’s chosen ones.
David says he is a Christian. I believe him. I accept his story (testimony) at face value. Who am I to say that he is not, right? Why can’t David extend the same respect to me? Rarely does a day go by without an Evangelical Christian telling me what I really believe, what’s wrong with me, why I am not a Christian, etc. They daily dig through my story, looking for things that don’t fit their peculiar worldview. Others psychoanalyze me. Some attack, harass, call names, and threaten me with judgment, Hell, and death.
The Bible says you will know a tree by the fruit it produces. From my corner in the orchard, Evangelicalism is a poisonous tree that produces poisonous fruit. Even if I were inclined to return to Christianity, it sure as Hell wouldn’t be Evangelicalism. Of course, that ain’t going to happen. I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting. Unless new evidence is presented to me, I see no reason to reconsider my decision to divorce Jesus.
This brings me to my last objection to David’s message: the idea that I am still a Christian. This is, by far, the silliest thing Evangelicals say to me. What, in my life, remotely suggests that I am a Christian? Nothing. The God of the Bible is a myth. The Jesus of the Bible is forever dead, and did not perform the miracles recorded in the Bible. The Bible is an errant, fallible manmade book. I reject EVERY central claim of Christianity including the divinity of Christ, the virgin birth of Christ, and the resurrection of Christ. Can I fully, and without reservation, reject these claims and others? In what universe am I still a Christian?
No, the problem here is that David can’t square my story with his peculiar theology, so he claims I am still a Christian. Once saved, always saved, right? If David wants me to accept his claim that he is a Christian, then he must mine. That’s respect. I AM AN ATHEIST. Proudly so. I am, according to the Bible, an apostate and a reprobate.
I am not David’s brother. I am a stranger on the Internet. As is common among Evangelicals, they cheapen words such as love and brother. Becoming my brother is reserved for my three biological brothers — two of whom I became aware of two years ago — and men who are close, intimate friends. And trust me, I have very few male friends. I am not promiscuous with my love and friendship as Evangelicals are.
Well, enough. I am sure David got more than he bargained for. I suspect all I did with this post is prove to him I am bitter. 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Both Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1 read, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’”
Brenda, what’s your objective? Surely you know that the Bible carries no weight with me; that I grant it no authority in my life. I am more than happy to discuss the nature and history of the Bible with you. I think you will find that I am quite conversant in all things Bible.
So, to the Bible, as interpreted by you, saying “Bruce Gerencser is a fool,” I say, so what? Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it’s true. The Bible is not evidence; it is a collection of books written by primarily unknown authors that make all sorts of claims. It is up to you, Brenda, to provide evidence for these claims.
You will find that presuppositionalist arguments carry no weight with me or most of the readers of this blog — many of whom are Christians. You presuppose that your peculiar version of the Christian God is the one, true God who created the universe; that nature, conscience, and divine revelation (the Bible) reveals to everyone, without exception, this God; that all humans intuitively know this God exists; that anyone who denies these “truths” is deliberately suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. You also believe that the Bible, as divine revelation from your God, is inerrant and infallible.
I reject these presuppositions out of hand. Let me be blunt, just because you say something doesn’t make it so. As a rationalist and skeptic, I expect actual evidence for your claims; not proof texts or regurgitated Fundamentalist talking points.
Some take these verses to mean that atheists are stupid, i.e., lacking intelligence. However, that is not the only meaning of the Hebrew word translated “fool.” In this text, the Hebrew word is nabal, which often refers to an impious person who has no perception of ethical or religious truth. The meaning of the text is not “unintelligent people do not believe in God.” Rather, the meaning of the text is “sinful people do not believe in God.”
Awesome, you know how to use Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. I find it interesting that you chose the third possible meaning of the word to make your point. The first meaning says that atheists are “stupid.” This claim — and it is a claim — is not factually supported. In general, atheists are more educated than Evangelical Christians. The more education one has, the less likely they are to believe in God; especially the Evangelical God. You commented on a post about Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist C.T. Townsend. If you are IFB or familiar with the movement, then you know IFB adherents are not known for being overly educated. The more Fundamentalist one is, the less likely they are to have a post-high school education. I don’t say this to say that Fundamentalists are “stupid.” I am saying that any suggestion that atheists, as a class of people, are stupid is a foolish and unwise claim. Are there stupid atheists? Absolutely. That said, most of the atheists I know are educated and well-read. Their atheism is rooted in knowledge and facts and a rationalist, humanistic understanding of religion and the world. That’s why we expect Evangelical zealots to interact with us on a rational, evidentiary basis. If you can do that, Brenda, I am more than happy to discuss with you anything you want. However, if you are here to quote Bible verses and preach, then I am not interested in hearing what you have to say. Yeah, I know, I have a hardened heart; I’m an apostate; I’m a reprobate.
In other words, it is a wicked thing to deny God, and a denial of God is often accompanied by a wicked lifestyle. The verse goes on to list some other characteristics of the irreligious: “They are corrupt; their deeds are vile; / there is no one who does good.” Psalm 14 is a study on the universal depravity of mankind.
Many atheists are very intelligent. It is not intelligence, or a lack thereof, that leads a person to reject belief in God. It is a lack of righteousness that leads a person to reject belief in God. Many people do not object to the idea of a Creator, as long as that Creator minds His own business and leaves them alone. What people reject is the idea of a Creator who demands morality from His creation. Rather than struggle against a guilty conscience, some people reject the idea of God altogether. Psalm 14:1 calls this type of person a “fool.”
Psalm 14:1 says that denying God’s existence is commonly based on a desire to lead a wicked life. Several prominent atheists have admitted the truth of this. Some, such as author Aldous Huxley, have openly admitted that a desire to avoid moral restraints was a motivation for their disbelief:
(Huxley quote deleted. It is irrelevant and an attempt to poison the well. I could just as easily say that Jeffrey Dahmer, Donald Trump, and David Hyles are Christians.)
Let’s see if I understand what you are saying here: atheists are corrupt, atheists are vile; atheists desire to lead a wicked life. Do you have any evidence for these claims? How many atheists do you know? How many of them have you actually talked to about their worldviews and how they live their day-to-day lives?
What you are saying to me directly is that the reasons I left Christianity and embraced atheism are because I am vile, corrupt, and have the desire to live a wicked life. (You could have quoted the “sins” in Romans 1 as well.) Evangelicals routinely accuse me of being a closeted homosexual. Their evidence? I have LGBTQ friends and I wear rainbow-colored suspenders.) Ask yourself this, Brenda. Did I immediately stop being a moral, ethical man the moment I said I was no longer a Christian? Did I stop being a loving, thoughtful husband, father, grandfather, neighbor, and friend? Did I have secret sins in my life, and becoming an atheist gave me to the freedom to lie, steal, cheat, and fuck whomever I want? Do you realize how silly this sounds?
Here’s what I know. Christianity has no corner on the morality market. You seem to forget that I was a pastor for twenty-five years. I counseled scores of church members and heard the deep, dark secrets of colleagues in the ministry. I can tell you this: Jesus is not vaccine against immoral and unethical behavior. Bible-believing Christians, who are filled with the Holy Ghost, can and do commit crimes and cause harm to others. I pastored people who committed all sorts of heinous crimes, everything from murder to sexual abuse to adultery to domestic violence, and numerous other crimes and lesser “sinful behaviors,” while not criminal, caused untold harm to their spouses and children. As far as preachers are concerned, please peruse the Black Collar Crime Series. You will find almost 1,000 stories about criminal misconduct by pastors, evangelists, missionaries, youth pastors, worship leaders, and other church leaders — mainly sex crimes. So any claim that Christians are moral or that Christianity provides morality that atheists don’t have is laughable and not supported by facts.
Further, I have been blogging since 2007. Thousands of Evangelicals have commented on my posts, sent me emails, or sent me messages on social media. By and large, their interactions with me have been caustic and argumentative. Many of these so-called followers of the Prince of Peace were hateful, vile, and nasty, threatening me with judgment, Hell, and death. Several have threatened to murder me; another threatened to assault my daughter with Down Syndrome. Others have visited other blogs and tried to attack my character. A new tactic is to seek out my family and acquaintances and try to evangelize them or play mind games. So, don’t tell me about the supposed moral superiority of Christianity. Thousands of former Evangelicals read my writing. Many of them will tell you, myself included, that we have met and know many fine people whom are Evangelical Christians. They will also tell you that Evangelicalism — especially the IFB church movement — is a poisonous tree that produces poisonous fruit. How about actually interacting with and learning from Evangelicals-turned-atheists/agnostics instead of pompously and arrogantly preaching AT them? Do better, Brenda, do better.
Belief in a divine Being is accompanied by a sense of accountability to that Being. So, to escape the condemnation of conscience, which itself was created by God, some simply deny the existence of God. They tell themselves, “There is no overseer of the world. There is no Judgment Day. I can live as I please.” The moral pull of the conscience is thus more easily ignored.
Belief in God has never stopped anyone from doing what they want to do. People do what they do — good, bad, and indifferent. All of us are as moral and ethical as we choose to be. I have murdered and raped as many people as I want. I have robbed as many banks as I want. I have sexually assaulted as many people as I want. I don’t want to, so I don’t — no God needed. If the only reason, Brenda, you are not a murderer, rapist, child molester, or thief is that you believe in God, then by all means keep believing in God. However, I suspect you know as I do that if you became an atheist today that you would be as moral and ethical today as you were when you were a Christian. People don’t suddenly become serial killers the moment they stop believing in God.
As far as accountability is concerned, I am accountable to my spouse, children, and close friends. I don’t need a magical being to keep me moral. I love my wife. I love my family. I love my friends and neighbors. And because I do, I want to be a good man; a loving man; a kind man. I am sure I frequently fail. but the bent of my life is toward love for those that matter to me.
Trying to convince oneself there is no God is unwise. The point of “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” is that it is an impious, sinful heart that will deny God. The atheist’s denial flies in the face of much evidence to the contrary, including his own conscience and the universe he lives in.
Most atheists don’t convince themselves against extant evidence that there is no God. Have you actually had a serious, lengthy discussion with an Evangelical-turned-atheist; a discussion where they explained to you their reasons for deconverting? I doubt it. Your comment reveals a total lack of understanding about what it is atheists actually believe and why they left Christianity.
What evidence can you provide, Brenda, for the existence of your peculiar version of the Christian God? Not A GOD, not a generic God, THE GOD, the one, true, everlasting God you worship. Since God commands you to give an answer to the hope that lies within you, please provide evidence — outside of Bible prooftexts and generic appeals to the natural world (creation) and morality (conscience), both of which can be adequately explained by science — for the existence of your particular deity.
A lack of evidence of God’s existence is not the true reason atheists reject a belief in God. Their rejection is due to a desire to live free of the moral constraints God requires and to escape the guilt that accompanies the violation of those constraints.
Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”) You are just preaching now. I suspect that was your goal. You really don’t have any interest in reaching me with the gospel. You are more concerned with being right; more concerned with putting an atheist in his place with God’s inerrant, infallible Word; more concerned about telling fellow Fundamentalists that you sure told that critic of C.T. Townsend. There’s no compassion, concern, love, or understanding in your comment from someone who invested little to no time in understanding my story or interacting me as an equal.
I deleted your lengthy quote of Romans 1:18-25. Did you think I have never read this passage of Scripture, or that countless zealots before you haven’t quoted these verses to me? As a pastor, I preached from this text numerous times. I know what it says inside and out. I spent over 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible during the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry. If you comment further, please refrain from prooftexts. If you have not done so, please read the comment policy — which you violated numerous times. The only reason I approved your comment is that I thought my response to you would be helpful to both Christians and unbelievers alike.
You ending your comment with Romans 1:18-25 is you saying that what you said in your comment is God speaking, not you; that if I have a problem with what you said, I have a problem with God. No, Brenda, I have a problem with you. My goal in this post is to both chastise and correct you. You could have had a thoughtful discussion with me. Instead, you wasted it.
Be well.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Travis Albers, a youth director at Trinity Reformed Church in Pella, Iowa, stands accused of two counts of lascivious acts with a child – inflict pain or discomfort, both class D felonies; and two counts of indecent contact with a child. Trinity Reformed is pastored by Chris Piersma, and is affiliated with The Gospel Coalition.
A former youth director at a Pella church is facing multiple charges of sexual abuse, according to court documents.
Travis Albers, 38, of rural Pella, has been charged with two counts of lascivious acts with a child – inflict pain or discomfort, both class D felonies; and two counts of indecent contact with a child.
According to court documents, the Marion County Sheriff’s Office began an investigation in November 2022 after a juvenile victim made statements to officials that Albers had touched them inappropriately. At the time, Albers denied the allegations, police said in court documents.
On March 5, Albers was arrested on a warrant and released on a $14,000 bond. Albers waived a preliminary hearing that was originally scheduled for Thursday morning.
Albers was formerly employed as a youth director at Trinity Reformed Church in Pella. A statement issued by the Consistory of Trinity Church says the accusations do not involve any current or previous youth group members of the church. The church says it first placed Albers on administrative leave when they were first notified of the accusations last year, then fired him after his arrest March 5.
The church released the following statement:
“The Consistory of Trinity Church was informed back in November of 2022, that Travis Albers had criminal accusations made against him. As a result of this, the Executive Committee of the Consistory immediately placed Travis on administrative leave,” the statement says. “It is important to note that these accusations are not related to his work in Trinity’s youth ministries; the accusations do not involve any current or previous Youth Group members. Due to his arrest on March 5, 2023, the Consistory terminated his employment. Trinity will continue to shepherd Travis and his family.”
Note the carefully crafted statement: “It is important to note that these accusations are not related to his work in Trinity’s youth ministries; the accusations do not involve any current or previous Youth Group members.” The church forgot to add: “that we know of.” The church seems to want to obfuscate the fact that while allegedly committing these sex crimes, Albers was employed by the church. Good on him for not sexually molesting church children? Notice that no mention was made of his victims.
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Terry Rudisell, pastor of Cornerstone Independent Baptist Church in Lincolnton, North Carolina, stands accused of three counts of taking indecent liberties with children.
The Lincolnton Police Department says a man is accused of child sex crimes, one of which reportedly happened recently.
The department said 49-year-old Terry Wayne Rudisill was arrested Friday afternoon. He is charged with three counts of taking indecent liberties with children.
A news release from police said one of the charges stems from a reportedly recent incident involving an 11-year-old girl, while the two other charges are tied to a girl who was 15 years old at the time.
Rudisill was jailed with a $50,000 bond. Online records show he made bail.
….
Rudisill’s home address was included in a news release shared with media outlets. WCNC Charlotte verified he lives next door to Cornerstone Independent Baptist Church. Google Earth data gathered in 2019 has a “Terry W. Rudisill” listed on the church’s sign as the pastor.
While Lincolnton Police have not yet confirmed Rudisill’s status as a pastor, WCNC Charlotte received confirmation from a former church member who said he was Cornertsone’s pastor. WCNC Charlotte also reached out to the church for comment and left a voicemail.
While someone did call WCNC back from the number, they did not leave a voicemail. A follow-up phone call yielded no response.
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The recent success of an interview (28,000 views) I did with Tim Mills, the Harmonic Atheist, has brought me increased attention from Evangelical Christians.
Media interviews I do always bring out knives, pitchforks, and pyres, but it seems, at least to me, Evangelical hostility levels have dramatically increased, so much so that I have had thoughts of throwing in the towel. So much vitriol toward an insignificant atheist. What gives? Judging by their attacks, you would think I had kidnapped their firstborn or slept with their spouse. One man, whom I have banned and blocked numerous times, is trying to get at me through family, friends, and acquaintances. Yesterday, he went after my youngest son’s transgender roommate. That didn’t go very well for this Evangelical man. He happened to run into a young man who is more than capable of handling themselves. In fact, I suspect they enjoyed eviscerating this man. Earlier this week, my youngest daughter received a cryptic email from an Evangelical man, saying that he was trying to get a hold of me. Of course, he wasn’t trying to contact me. I am one of the most accessible people on the Internet. I am but a click or two away. No, this man wanted to let me know that he could get at me and my family. Why else did he list all the publicly available email addresses for me, including several email addresses I haven’t used in twenty years?
The fact that I have a lot of serious health problems has made it easy for Evangelicals to say that these maladies are God’s judgment or God trying to get my attention. The unrelenting pain that is literally choking the life out of me is “God” trying to get my attention. Someday, hopefully not today, tomorrow, or next week, I will die. I know that I am on the short side of life; that either disease, accident, or the damn cat will one day put an end to me. I can only imagine what Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) zealots will say on their blogs and what preachers say in their sermons upon hearing reports of my demise. “Bruce knows the truth now!” “Atheist Bruce Gerencser now knows that God exists and Hell is real!” These followers of Jesus will feign sadness as they speak of my death, but they will silently say to themselves, “that God-hating, Devil-loving motherfreaker got exactly what he deserved. No one mocks my God and gets by with it. ” (Motherfreaker is a Baptist swearword. An Evangelical recently got upset with me because I used a swear word in one of my posts. I am sure you can imagine my response to him. Please see Evangelical Swear Words.) 🙂
Let me circle back around to this idea that God gave me fibromyalgia, gastroparesis, and degenerative spine disease because he is trying to get my attention; that every night I writhe in pain in bed, unable to sleep, my suffering is a message of love from the Christian deity.
What’s with God “trying” to do anything? Is he weak and powerless, unable to do what he wants? If God is not willing that any should perish, how is possible that Bruce Gerencser, a frail, broken-down biped, can thwart God’s will? Surely God can easily and effortlessly reach me at any time. “Nothing is too hard for God” and “with God all things are possible,” the Bible says. Yet, it seems that saving me is too hard for God and that it is impossible for the Big Kahuna to reach me.
If my suffering is God trying to get my attention, does this mean that if I repent and put my faith and trust in Jesus, my chronic pain and illnesses will immediately and magically disappear? Crickets are all I hear from Evangelicals. They know there is no connection between my health problems and God. None. Shit happens, and this is my shit.
I have a three-year-old redheaded grandson named Silas. He’s a handful. Silas has no fear of anything. He must be watched at all times. Our living room is small, 16’x20′. We have three lamps in the room, along with an overhead light. I HATE the overhead light. My grandkids know not to turn the light on when I am in the room. Not Silas. He will run over to the wall switch, give me a look — you know, THAT look — turn on the light, and run off. No matter what I say or do, Silas keeps flipping the switch. Mischief is his middle name, some sort of karmic payback for my own childhood mischief. If my mom were alive, she would be smiling.
Imagine if I determined to teach Silas a lesson about the overhead light. I decided that the next time Silas turned the light on I would break his arm. Boy, that would get his attention, right? This is EXACTLY what Evangelicals are saying when they say that God has afflicted me to get my attention or to teach me a lesson. What, exactly, did I ever do to God to deserve such punishment? Or is God okay with Bruce, the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist, and that it is Evangelicals who want to see me suffer? Sadly, many Evangelicals are sadists. Unbelievers have what they can’t have, so they rail against them, uttering threats of suffering, death, and Hell.
If I broke Silas’ arm because he kept turning on the light, I would deserve to be arrested and locked up for my crime. So it is for the Evangelical deity who inflicts suffering on finite beings. If such a deity exists, he is unworthy of our worship.
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
