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Fundamentalist Preacher Upset That Unbelievers Ask Him for Evidence for His Claims

Bruce Gerencser 8 Comments
dr david tee's library
Dr. David Tee’s Massive Library

Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, continues to passive-aggressively respond to my posts, often refusing to mention my name or link to my writing. In a post titled Why Noah’s Ark Will Not be Found, Thiessen wrote:

People want evidence

This is what the modern world has turned into. Due to the rise in scientific influence and its demand for physical evidence, everyday people want to see evidence before they accept a premise as true.

The demand for evidence has overwhelmed the population elbowing the requirement for faith to the sidelines. It used to be that people believed the Bible without the need of any evidence.

That is not blind faith but acknowledging the fact that without faith one cannot please God. Also, it is an act of obedience as faith has always been the requirement for salvation and other biblical topics.

However, when science was placed as an authority the demand for real physical evidence rose and people stopped obeying God and wanted to see more and more physical evidence.

….

While we have so much evidence for Noah’s flood, it still takes faith to believe the biblical record. We do not know how Noah and his sons built such a large ship, how they weathered the storm, and much more. Everything about the flood has to be taken by faith.

Except for the lesson that God provided through this biblical event. Instead of searching for the ark, people should be learning what disobedience is going to cost them.

According to Thiessen, people used to “believe the Bible without the need of any evidence.” He provides no evidence or study for his claim, but I will accept his claim for the sake of argument. While there was likely a time when believers generally put their faith in the Bible and rarely, if ever, questioned its claims, thanks to the scientific method and the proliferation of evidence on the Internet that challenges faith claims, Christians are more likely to question and doubt what they hear from the pulpit. Thiessen, of course, will attribute this to Satan. After all, it was Lucifer (Actually a talking snake. The Bible never says the snake was the Devil.) who said to Adam and Eve, “Yea hath God said”? The answer to the snake’s question, of course, is “no.”

We teach our children not to trust people just because of what they say or their position of authority. Smart parents teach their children to be skeptical of all claims, including those uttered by authority figures. If a teacher, preacher, policeman, or other authority makes a claim, they should, at the very least, justify their claim. Every claim should stand on its own two feet. We should remain skeptical until hearing sufficient evidence to justify a claim.

However, when it comes to Evangelical Christianity, people are expected to check their brains at the door. Faith, not reason, is the standard of judgment. If a teaching or belief sounds irrational, just have faith. If a pastor’s preaching seems to run contrary to what we know to be true, just have faith. No matter how crazy a belief sounds, just have faith.

Thiessen says “We have so much evidence for Noah’s flood,” — a claim that is categorically false — but turns right around and says “It still takes faith to believe the biblical record.” Here’s the thing, if we have evidence, we don’t need faith. Faith is what people exercise when they don’t have a good reason to believe. Show me, I will believe, and then I won’t need faith.

Faith is never a good way to determine whether something is true. Faith allows people to believe all sorts of crazy things, including the supernatural claims of the Bible and Donald Trump’s claim that Haitian immigrants are eating cats and dogs in Springfield, Ohio. Thiessen would have us believe everything in the Bible by faith, even without an evidentiary reason to do so. Only in religion do we ask people to place faith over reason, skepticism, and rational inquiry. Imagine a scientist presenting a paper without evidence for his claims. “Brethren, I ask you to take my word for it that eating three Snickers bars a day cures fibromyalgia.” Why, this scientist would be laughed out of the room. His fellow scientists would demand empirical evidence for his claims, and even then, they would likely retest his claims before accepting them as true.

Thiessen wants us to just close our eyes and wish upon a star. Any and every absurd claim can be believed if people will just have faith. But that’s not how the world works in 2024. It’s not 1100 CE anymore. We now live in a scientific era where people are expected to provide evidence for their claims — including preachers, evangelists, missionaries, and Sunday school teachers. If credible evidence cannot be provided, moderns will not believe.

Thiessen longs for a day when people just took his word for it. I am sure it grates on him that he is no longer viewed as an authority on the Bible; and that people rightly challenge his bald assertions. If Thiessen wants us to believe, all he has to do is provide evidence for his claims. Not quote Bible verses or appeal to hermeneutic sleight of hand, but actual evidence. I remain ready and willing to believe. All it would take to convert me is to provide sufficient evidence for the existence of the Christian deity and the central claims of Christianity. So far, this evidence has not been forthcoming.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Black Collar Crime: IFB Pastor David Baker Kills Himself Instead of Facing Sexual Battery Charge

Bruce Gerencser 13 Comments
pastor david baker

The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

David Baker, pastor of Family Baptist Church in Columbia, Tennessee, allegedly killed himself after facing charges that he sexually assaulted a minor.

Yesterday, The Daily Herald reported:

A Columbia pastor was charged with aggravated sexual battery Tuesday and booked at the Maury County Jail.

David Mark Baker Sr., lead pastor of Family Baptist Church in Columbia, served as a candidate for Maury County mayor in the 2022 election, entering the race after now U.S. Rep. Andy Ogles dropped out to run for the 5th District Congressional seat.

Baker, a Santa Fe native, started Independent Baptist Online Bible College, a ministry of Family Baptist Church, has led a life coaching business, and is an author of several books.

He also runs a ministry Fallen in Grace, with Indiana pastor David Hyles, who has faced much controversy.

Baker previously served as chaplain of the Maury County Jail for 28 years.

Bond set at $200,000.

Baker’s court date is 9:30 a.m. on Oct. 9 in Maury County.

Today, The Daily Herald reported:

Just a day after Columbia Pastor David Baker, Sr. was charged with aggravated sexual battery by Maury County Sheriff’s Office, he has died of apparent suicide, according to Columbia Police Chief Jeremy Alsup.

Baker served as lead pastor of Family Baptist Church in Columbia and ran as a candidate for Maury County mayor in the 2022 election.

According to Alsup, Baker “walked into the ER at Maury Regional Medical Center, went straight to the bathroom and was soon found deceased in the bathroom.”

Alsup shared that video captured Baker walking into the hospital emergency room.

Bond was posted at $200,000 Tuesday, and a court date was previously set for Oct. 9.

The charge against Baker involves a minor, Sheriff Bucky Rowland confirmed Wednesday.

During the 2022 election, Baker filed a defamation lawsuit in Maury County court against then-opponent Maury County Mayor Sheila Butt, which was later dropped. He was also criticized during the election by a former member of Lighthouse Baptist Church, (which filed bankruptcy in 2017) regarding his handling of the member’s sexual assault by a fellow church member.

Baker, a Santa Fe native, started Independent Baptist Online Bible College, a ministry of Family Baptist Church, led a life coaching business and penned several books.

He also ran a ministry Fallen in Grace, with Indiana pastor David Hyles. Hyles has faced much controversy, including allegations of rape, according to multiple media reports by the Fort-Worth Star Telegram, though he was not charged.

Baker previously served as chaplain of the Maury County Jail for 28 years.

Fox-17 reports:

Authorities say the family member he molested was under the age of 12.

There was nothing Godly about him. He was, he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing,” said Aimee Spires.

Spires told FOX 17 News she went to Baker’s church when he was a preacher at Lighthouse Baptist Church. He was a pastor at Family Baptist church when he was arrested.

“I was angry because all the victims that there is, there’s no telling how many victims, how many girl victims that are out there that he may have done this to,” said Spires.

Another former church member and activist Tiffany Boyd is upset at what he is accused of doing considering what he preached.

“A hypocrite. There are a lot of words, but many of those, I can’t say on camera, it’s infuriating. I mean, it really, it’s infuriating.” she said.

The Columbia Police Department confirmed Baker shot himself today at Maury Regional Medical Center.

The hospital’s spokesperson tells FOX 17 News, a man went into their restroom and shot himself twice in the chest. They said they tried to save him and placed the hospital on lockdown.

As noted in the news articles, Baker ran a ministry for “fallen” ministers with disgraced miscreant David Hyles — the son of the late Jack Hyles. Called Fallen in Grace, this ministry helped restore preachers to the ministry after they fell (or headlong ran) into sin –especially sexual sins, including rape, adultery, and molesting children. Hyles has a long history of sexual misconduct, but has, so far, evaded accountability for his behavior. Birds of a feather flock together, and that is certainly the case of Hyles, Baker, and other fallen Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preachers. Both Hyles and Baker provided a smokescreen for other “fallen” preachers, helping them return to the ministry. Dr. David Tee (who blogs at TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God), a notorious defender of preachers who commit sex crimes, would be proud of these men and the “service” they provide to God’s people.

While I am saddened by Baker’s alleged suicide — after all, he had a wife and eleven children — I hope that his death puts an end to Fallen in Grace and its pernicious enabling of sexual predators and other offenders. Interestingly, less than a day after Baker was arrested, he and the Fallen in Grace ministry have been scrubbed from Family Baptist Church’s website. Nothing to see here! David Baker? David Baker who? David Hyles? Never heard of him. Fallen in Grace? Not ministry we are familiar with. In the IFB church movement, the modus operandi is to deny, cover-up, and move on. There are souls to save, sermons to preach, and offerings to collect.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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How Evangelical Church Discipline is Used to Abuse and Harm Congregants

Bruce Gerencser 8 Comments
john macarthur

In the news of late are stories about Grace Community Church in Sun City, California, its pastor John MacArthur, and how they handle church discipline. Most American churches don’t practice church discipline. Church members don’t know anything about the subject, having never seen it put into practice. I pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. I pastored scores of people, yet only exercised church discipline on one man — an act I came to later regret. I was, however, co-pastor of a church that routinely used discipline to keep members in line. More on that later.

Many of the Evangelical churches that regularly discipline are doctrinally Calvinistic. Grace Community is Calvinistic. It regularly and routinely disciplines “erring” congregants. Recent news reports speak of women being disciplined for leaving or divorcing their husbands, contrary to the advice and admonition of Grace Community’s elders. One woman even left the church and asked for her membership to be withdrawn. Instead, the church disciplined her. She has filed a lawsuit against Grace Community and MacArthur for disparaging her publicly from the pulpit.

Church discipline is a tool used by churches and pastors to control congregant behavior. There are prooftexts they used to justify this practice, which I shall ignore for the purpose of this post. Most Evangelical churches have loose, at times non-existent, membership requirements. As long as you are not an evil Sodomite or living in open sin, churches will welcome you into their memberships upon profession of faith or transfer of membership from another like-minded church. While baptism is often required before membership, churches increasingly ignore this requirement, which is odd since the New Testament clearly teaches that baptism is a prerequisite to membership (if not salvation itself). Once a member, congregants are encouraged to attend church, tithe and give offerings, and serve in some meaningful capacity. Churches that practice discipline, however, demand congregants not only attend church unless providentially hindered, tithe and give offerings, serve in the church, and obey the teachings of the pastor.

Churches use church discipline as a means of control. Fundamentally, churches are social clubs with membership requirements. If you want to join the club, you must agree to the club’s membership rules, and if you don’t you will be booted out of the club. In 1995, I was excommunicated from Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf, Texas. Please see I am a Publican and a Heathen — Part One for more on my time at Community Baptist. I tried to leave the church quietly, but I was told that since I had to have their permission to join the church, I had to have their permission to leave. I ignored their edict, resigned, and moved back to Ohio. The very night we were leaving, the church held a meeting to deal with “the Bruce Gerencser problem.” My fellow co-pastor led the church to excommunicate me, and to this day I am considered a publican and a heathen.

Much like Grace Community in Sun City, Community Baptist used church discipline as a bludgeon to beat congregants into submission. I saw church members disciplined for all sorts of trivial reasons, including not regularly attending church. Even people who made it clear they were leaving the church and moving on were disciplined for not asking the church to leave. Of course, this threat of public shaming is used as a tool to force compliance.

I pastored Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio. It was a church I started, and in the late 1980s, I led the congregation to embrace Evangelical Calvinism. Every congregant agreed with this drastic theological change, though I suspect some of them acquiesced out of fear. Months before I left this church to become the co-pastor at Community Baptist, I had my first opportunity to put church discipline into practice.

The man in question, now dead (I preached his funeral a few years ago), I’ll call Robert. Robert was a committed follower of Jesus, attending church every time the doors were open. Anything I needed done, Robert would do. He was rough around the edges, having grown up in a dysfunctional home. I still remember the first time Robert came to church. He was dressed in ratty, dirty clothes, and he was wearing a Zig-Zag hat. Robert and his family lived less than a mile down the hill from our home. We started out picking up their four children on Sundays and bringing them to church. Eventually, I convinced Robert and his wife to attend, and a few weeks later I led them to faith in Christ.

I genuinely loved and appreciated Robert, even though I found his behavior, at times, troubling. I viewed him as a “project.” Robert had been a member for ten years when he was kicked out of the church. His crime was serious — unrepentant adultery. I tried to get Robert to reconcile with his wife, but I failed. Using Matthew 18 as the standard, I first talked to Robert one-on-one, and then I brought a witness, a fellow pastor, to talk to him. Our appeals were rebuffed and ignored. Finally, I took the matter before the church, asking them to excommunicate Robert for grievous unrepentant sin. The church unanimously voted to kick Robert out of the congregation. He was no longer permitted to attend our services unless he publicly repented. His wife and four children remained in the church, and the children attended our Christian school.

A few months later, I resigned from the church. Several congregants came to me and said that Robert wanted to come to my last service at Somerset Baptist. I refused, saying that Robert had to publicly repent before he returned to church. Even his wife, whom he later reconciled with, pleaded with me to let him come back to church. I, however, stuck to my guns, thinking I was standing true to the teachings of Christ. In hindsight, I regret not letting Robert attend the service. I was nothing more than a Bible bully. Yes, the Scriptures were on my side, but I allowed my interpretation of the Bible to overrule my humanity. Yes, adultery was a sin, but he was hardly the only man or woman in the church to have committed fornication or adultery. Robert was just stupid enough to get caught.

After my experience at Community Baptist, I came to see and understand that this Calvinistic form of church discipline was a bad idea; that it was used to control congregants, eliciting fear and submission. I would later take a closer look at church discipline and conclude that it was cultic practice, a way for preachers to demand conformity and obedience.

My advice to Evangelicals seeking a new church to attend is to avoid like the plague churches that practice church discipline — Bible be damned. Congregants should be able to quietly leave without disciplinary action. It is common for church members to move on to other churches for a variety of reasons — some justified, some not. Regardless, why not let them quietly leave without publicly shaming and rebuking them from the pulpit? It seems to me that it is never wise to burn bridges. I had more than a few members leave for a variety of reasons and later return to the church — often years later. Had the church disciplined them, it is unlikely they would have returned.

How did your church handle church discipline? Did they excommunicate erring members? Did they publicly shame them? Did your pastor ever preach on church discipline? Please leave your erudite thoughts in the comment section.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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I’m a Prophet, Preacher, or Evangelist Because I Say I Am

Bruce Gerencser 3 Comments
calling of god

Have you ever wondered how, exactly, an Evangelical man (or, in some instances, woman) becomes a prophet, preacher, or evangelist? What is the process one goes through to become a spokesperson for the Evangelical God? In this post, I will detail how someone becomes an out-front spokesperson for the one true God.

Salvation Experience

First, a candidate for the ministry must be a saved/born again/bought-by-the-blood child of God. A prospective prophet, preacher, or evangelist must have a clear, definitive testimony of salvation. An added bonus is a life before Jesus that includes drug use, drunkenness, sexual deviance, Satan worship, or atheism. The more fantastical the testimony, the more likely it is that congregants will think a person is a bona fide man of God.

Baptism

Second, a candidate for the ministry must be baptized. This is the first step new believers take in their new life with Christ. Some Evangelical sects also believe that ministerial candidates must give evidence that they have been baptized with the Holy Ghost. Such Spirit baptism is often evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Calling

Third, a candidate for the ministry must know that God is calling him to be a prophet, preacher, or evangelist. How does one know that God is calling him? Well, he just knows. Calling is a feeling, a psychological/emotional impression. I was saved and baptized at the age of fifteen. Several weeks after my conversion, I felt led by the Holy Spirit to go forward and confess to the church that I believed God was calling me to preach. The church was thrilled over my confession of ministerial ambition. Two weeks later, I preached my first sermon. For the next thirty-five years, I never one time questioned my calling. I just knew beyond all shadow of a doubt that God had called me into the ministry. I was as sure of this calling as I was the fact that Jesus had saved me from my sins.

Educational Requirements

While some Evangelical sects have educational requirements for ministerial candidates, other sects, along with Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Charismatic, Pentecostal, Southern Baptist, and non-denominational churches have no requirements other than salvation, baptism, and calling. Countless Evangelical churches are pastored by men and women who don’t have a lick of post-high school education. The same can be said for evangelists. Years ago, I attended a revival meeting at a holiness church near the Baptist congregation I was pastoring. The evangelist, an older man, would have his wife read the Bible for him. I had seen this tag-team approach before, but this evangelist was having his wife read because he, himself, could not read. Yet, I am sure if I asked if he was a God-called preacher of the gospel, he would have said with great assurance and certainty, yes.

Within the broad, diverse Evangelical tent, it is common to find prophets, preachers, or evangelists with little or no relevant ministerial training. God saved and called them, end of discussion. And as long as they believe God called them, that is all that matters. Sure, scores of Evangelical ministers have college educations. However, a closer examination of their educational backgrounds often reveals that they attended unaccredited Bible colleges or institutes (local church-based schools). These institutions often provide perfunctory, superficial educations that are little more than Sunday school classes. Even for men who attend accredited Evangelical colleges and universities, the academic level of their instruction is often woefully lacking. Readers might be surprised to know that the overwhelming majority of Evangelical ministerial graduates lack thorough, comprehensive training in the teachings of the sixty-six books of the Protestant Bible. All too often, ministerial students take survey classes that are little more than shallow commentaries on the Bible. Worse yet, most Evangelical pastors are not fluent in the original languages the Bible was written in — Hebrew and Greek.

Ordination

Many Evangelical sects and churches use ordination as a gateway of sorts for men and women who say God has called them to be prophets, preachers, or evangelists. Ordination is a stamp of approval put on the candidate by the denomination or church. In the IFB church movement, churches often call for a council of like-minded pastors to come together to examine the prospective ministerial candidate. Often, these examinations are little more than rubber-stamp approvals of the candidates. Who are they to say to “no” to what God has said “yes”? How does the council know God has called a person into the ministry? Do they get some sort of impression or feeling that affirms to them that the candidate is a God-called prophet, preacher, or evangelist? Nope. they just take the candidate’s word for it.

External Evidence

Certainly, sects, churches, and ordination councils look for external evidence of calling. Is the prospective prophet, preacher, or evangelist active in the church? Does he or she have a passion for soulwinning? Does he have the requisite skills necessary to preach and teach? You would think this last point would be essential, but having listened to scads of sermons, I can tell you that a lot of pastors and evangelists are terrible communicators. In the early 1980s, I helped my father-in-law start an IFB church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio. Dad had a real passion for evangelism, but his sermons, to put it bluntly, were atrocious. Dad graduated from Midwestern Baptist College in 1976. Somehow, he got through college without ever learning to construct an outline and deliver a coherent sermon. Outlining always came easy for me, so I sat down with Dad one day and tried to teach him how to make a sermon outline. Sadly, my instructions did not stick. How he got through Midwestern without learning the basics of sermon construction is impossible to comprehend. I suspect that to his professors and pastors, Dad saying God called him into the ministry was all that mattered. Hey, who are we to say this guy isn’t fit to be a preacher? I left the church in Buckeye Lake in 1983, moving a half-hour south to Somerset to start a new IFB church. Dad closed the church six years later and never pastored another church again. He continued to preach, but most often his congregations were found in nursing homes and jails — places where sermon quality didn’t matter.

Lone Rangers

What happens if a man’s church or sect doubts his calling? Does that mean the prospective candidate can’t be a prophet, preacher, or evangelist? Silly boy, of course not. You see, the “calling” card trumps all others. If a man says God has called him, how dare any sect or church say “no” to what God has said “yes”. This is especially true with churches that are non-affiliated or independent. If a man finds disapproval in these settings, he’s free to move on to another church willing to acknowledge his calling. And if he can’t find a church that will put their stamp of approval on his life, there’s nothing to keep him from starting his own church. Thanks to the First Amendment and non-existent tax laws governing churches, little stands in the way of a man starting a new church. Over twenty-five years in the ministry, I started four churches and pastored three churches that were first-generation church plants. Nothing ecclesiastically or governmentally stood in my way. I was a God-called preacher of the gospel, and that’s all that mattered. With Bruce and God, all things were possible.

Are you a former Evangelical prophet, preacher, or evangelist? Did you consider yourself called by God into the ministry? Were you ordained? Did you have a Bible college education? How in-depth was your training? Please share your experiences in the comment section.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Dr. David Tee Responds to My Post About Jesus Abandoning Hospitalized Woman

Bruce Gerencser 8 Comments
woman-lying-on-hospital-crying-praying-to-jesus-with-raised

Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, took issue with a recent post of mine:

When it comes to spiritual issues and Christians, unbelievers develop some weird and absurd views. They do not grasp the subtleties involved with God’s answer to prayer. Take for example this post Jesus Abandons Christian Woman in Hospital, Leaving Her to Suffer Horrific Pain [by Bruce Gerencser]:

Over and over and over again, for two hours, an elderly Charismatic Christian woman in a hospital bed near mine, lay on her bed with hands extended to the ceiling, pleading for Jesus/God to come to her and make his presence known….

Fortunately, after two hours of crying out to Jesus, he finally showed up! Just kidding. What showed up was a nurse with a syringe filled with high-powered narcotics. Soon, the woman fell asleep, ending her pleas to God. When she awoke, family and medical staff alike comforted her so she would no longer hysterically cry out for an imaginary pain-alleviating deity. Her suffering was alleviated, not by God, but by medically trained and compassionate human beings.

It is obvious that unbelievers will not see God or Jesus behind the kind act of the nurse. They only look on the surface of events and do not look for the real action taking place behind that surface view.

Unbelievers fail to realize that God uses people thus a human would be sent with the right medication to alleviate the woman’s pain. Given the fact that deaths due to medical malp[practice [sic] are abundant, the woman receiving the right dosage of the right medicine is an act of God answering her prayers.

Why would it take so long? Well, real life does get in the way of God answering prayers. One reason is that the nurses resisted God’s leading and disobeyed. Another is that they came when they were free as they had other patients to minister aid to and other practical and real reasons.

It is not that God abandoned this woman but that he answers in his time. Unfortunately, according to the author of that post, the woman’s faith was being undermined by family and medical staff. That is another reason God’s aid was delayed.

The post goes on to denigrate God and the Bible but that is also par for the ocurse [sic] as unbelievers never see God in any result of prayer. Not because they do not believe but because they do not look for God’s behind the scenes action.

According to Thiessen, I failed to see “God or Jesus behind the kind act of the nurse.” How could I, or anyone else, for that matter, see God or Jesus behind the nurse caring for this woman? Thiessen makes a claim for which he provides no evidence. Thiessen claims that I just took a “surface” view of the situation. How could I have done otherwise? I have no tool available to me that allows me to detect Jesus/God, so I make judgments based on what I see and hear. If God is the sovereign of the universe and hears every believer’s prayer, why did it take him two hours to show up? Jesus could have immediately revealed himself to her or alleviated her pain, but he didn’t. Instead, she lay on her bed writhing in pain, pleading for Jesus to make an appearance and alleviate her suffering.

Thiessen asserts, without evidence, that the woman finally receiving the right dose of narcotics was “an act of God answering her prayers.” How could he possibly know this? It is far more likely the charge nurse had to get in contact with the doctor before giving her pain meds and this took some time to accomplish or she had already received pain meds and it was too soon for more.

Thiessen suggests that God’s tardiness (not explaining how God could be tardy or absent when he is ever present) was due to “the nurses resisted God’s leading and disobeyed” or “they had other patients to minister aid to and other practical and real reasons.” Again, Thiessen provides no evidence for his claims. He is just making shit up as he goes, trying to make God look good. I was two beds away from this woman in a ward when the events detailed in my post happened. She had nursing staff in her room the whole time. My nurse, an RN, spent thirty minutes with the woman, trying to comfort and settle her down. She had plenty of human help, but supernatural deliverance was nowhere to be found.

Thiessen claims that the woman’s family and her nurses undermined her faith, and that’s why pain relief was delayed. I have no idea how he came to this conclusion. Besides, what kind of God withholds pain relief from one of his followers because of what others did? Why should she be punished for what others do (not that they did what Thiessen alleges)?

Thiessen concludes his post by saying “Unbelievers never see God in any result of prayer. Not because they do not believe but because they do not look for God’s behind-the-scenes action.” Saying God answered a prayer is a claim. If you want me to believe a supernatural claim then you must provide sufficient evidence for your claim. Thiessen, of course, doesn’t do this. As a Fundamentalist presuppositionalist, he believes that his claims are self-evident; and that unbelievers are deliberately deaf and blind to what God is doing in the world. Sure . . . but if Thiessen wants me to accept his claims, he going to have to do more than quote Bible verses, share personal experiences, or make bald assertions for which he provides no evidence. I am not going to take his word for it, and neither should anyone else.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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The One Thing the Evangelical God Could Do to Convince Me He Is Real

Bruce Gerencser 12 Comments
amputated leg

I am often asked what evidence it would take to convince me of the existence of the Evangelical God; the God of the Bible. Some atheists refuse to answer this question, saying “God knows what evidence would convince me of his existence, so when he provides it, I’ll know it.” Fair enough. The Evangelical God is allegedly omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. If these claims are true, God knows exactly what will convince unbelievers of his existence. Yet, God is silent, outside of helping Granny find her car keys or Grandpa his hearing aids.

So what could the Evangelical God do to convince the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser that he exists? One thing. One thing that God, in all of human history, has never done. One thing that would clearly, and without ambiguity, show me that he is real. What is that one thing, you ask? I would like to see God miraculously regrow an amputated arm or leg. Do this, God, and I will admit that you are real. I may not worship you, but I will believe you exist. Regrowing an amputated limb is not enough to absolve God of his murderous, genocidal acts recorded in the Bible. I can admit this God exists without bending a knee to him.

Okay, God, the ball is in your court.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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The Atheist Hymnal: Singing a Song in Praise of Christopher Hitchens

Bruce Gerencser 7 Comments

A collaboration between Bruce Almighty and Microsoft CoPilot AI.

Here’s a song praising the late Christopher Hitchens, set to the tune of “Blessed Assurance.”

Verse 1:

Blessed with reason, Hitchens we praise,
Voice of the skeptic, lighting our ways.
Champion of truth, with courage so bright,
In the face of dogma, you stood for the light.

Chorus:

Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free,
Your words inspire, your mind a sea.
In the quest for knowledge, you led the way,
Guiding us through night to the break of day.

Verse 2:

Critic of falsehoods, fearless and strong,
In debates and writings, you righted the wrong.
With wit and wisdom, you challenged the lies,
In your legacy, the truth never dies.

Chorus:

Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free,
Your words inspire, your mind a sea.
In the quest for knowledge, you led the way,
Guiding us through night to the break of day.

Bridge:

In your prose, we find the spark,
Of a mind that left its mark.
Though you’re gone, your voice remains,
In our hearts, your spirit reigns.

Chorus:

Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free,
Your words inspire, your mind a sea.
In the quest for knowledge, you led the way,
Guiding us through night to the break of day.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Jesus Abandons Christian Woman in Hospital, Leaving Her to Suffer Horrific Pain

Bruce Gerencser 10 Comments
woman praying

Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

I see your face, Jesus!

I see you, Jesus!

Come to me, Jesus!

I see your face, Jesus!

Over and over and over again, for two hours, an elderly Charismatic Christian woman in a hospital bed near mine, lay on her bed with hands extended to the ceiling, pleading for Jesus/God to come to her and make his presence known. She had just had surgery and was in a tremendous amount of pain. Pain medications were ineffective, so she turned to Jesus — the ultimate pain reliever. As a former devout Evangelical, I understand the woman’s pleas. As a pastor suffering from chronic illness and pain, I daily pleaded with God to deliver me from my suffering; or at the very least lessen my pain so I could sleep and do the work of the ministry. Alas, not one of my prayers was answered by God. At the time, I believed that if God didn’t answer my prayers, he was using my pain and suffering to either punish me, correct me, or for his glory. God always got a free pass.

Fortunately, after two hours of crying out to Jesus, he finally showed up! Just kidding. What showed up was a nurse with a syringe filled with high-powered narcotics. Soon, the woman fell asleep, ending her pleas to God. When she awoke, family and medical staff alike comforted her so she would no longer hysterically cry out for an imaginary pain-alleviating deity. Her suffering was alleviated, not by God, but by medically trained and compassionate human beings.

I genuinely felt sorry for the woman, knowing that Jesus was not going to show himself to her; that all the prayers, Bible verses, and worship were no match for severe pain; and that narcotics are the best tool medical professionals have in their toolbox to alleviate suffering.

I understand why Evangelicals turn to Jesus when suffering, but he is little more than a placebo. Jesus has never made a pain go away. He has no power to palliate suffering. How could he? Jesus is dead. Sure, prayer/meditation/positive mental attitude/mindfulness can help reduce pain; they are, after all, placebos. If you want to put this to the test, the next time you have surgery, ask the surgeon to do it without anesthesia or ask him to NOT give you narcotic pain meds post-surgery. None of us, I suspect, is willing to do this, even Holy Ghost-filled Christians. When we are in pain, we want the best post-surgery pain relievers. We want pain relievers because they work.

Nurses kept this woman sedated for the duration of my stay. I am grateful she found relief from her pain, even if her God had nothing to do with it.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Did Jesus Invent Thought Crimes?

Bruce Gerencser 20 Comments
thought crimes

Every day, billions of humans have thoughts that they never act upon or speak out loud. We don’t have a pre-crime bureau, as in the 2002 Tom Cruise movie, Minority Report, where people are arrested, convicted, and incarcerated for their thoughts (or what they “might” do). We generally judge people based on what they do, and not what they think.

All of us have had thoughts that we would never want anyone to know. Years ago, as I was driving to nearby Defiance, I pulled up to the traffic light at the corner of Clinton St and State Hwy 15. The light was red, so my eyes turned toward the drugstore on the corner. As I surveyed its parking lot, I noticed a large dumpster. I thought, “That sure would be a good place to dump a body”! WTF, right? Where in the world did that thought come from? Am I a hopeful serial killer? Not likely. It was just a random thought, likely fueled by my TV viewing habits. Should I have been arrested for my thoughts? Of course not. I have had numerous crazy thoughts over the years; fleeting moments where my thought processes turned dark. As a depressive, I have had countless suicidal thoughts. Should I be arrested to keep me from harming myself? Most people would say no. Most people ponder killing themselves at one time or another. These thoughts come and go for most people, who don’t act upon them. I suspect most of us don’t want to live in George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four world; a world where people are routinely arrested for their thoughts by the Thought Police.

Unfortunately, many Evangelical Christians are taught that God does, indeed, judge us for our thoughts. In Proverbs 23, the Bible talks about a ruler, saying, in verse 7a, ” So as he thinks in his heart so is he (KJV). This verse is often mistranslated, misinterpreted, or misapplied, but generally, Evangelical preachers use this verse to say that “we are what we think.” They justify this use or interpretation by quoting the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:27-28:

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus said that if a man looks at a woman and lusts after her, he has committed adultery with her in his heart. In other words, Jesus judges a man for what he thinks, and not just for what he does. Just because a man looks at a woman and has a lustful thought, it doesn’t follow that he will have adulterous sex with her. Imagine if this were really true. Most of us would have committed fornication or adultery with countless people.

Talk to people who spent their formative years in Evangelicalism and you will hear how they were taught that they could sin with their thoughts; that just having a sinful thought will bring God’s judgment upon you. Evangelicals are encouraged to fill their minds with Bible verses, prayer, sermons, Christian literature, and Christ-honoring music. And when these methods fail to keep “bad” thoughts at bay, either Satan is blamed for our failure or our “flesh” is.

Were you taught that your thoughts could be “sinful”? Please share in the comment section how this thinking affected you.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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If Heaven is the Goal, Then Every Evangelical Christian Should be Pro-Abortion

Bruce Gerencser 4 Comments
noah's flood

Listen to Evangelicals justify God killing children and unborn fetuses in Noah’s Flood or other Bible stories where God either kills children/babies or commands Israel to do so, and they will eventually tell you, “at least all the children went to Heaven” (of course, a Calvinist might object to the universality of this claim, since only elect children go to Heaven after they die).

If this claim is true, it provides Evangelicals with a conundrum. If all children and fetuses go to Heaven when they die, this means that aborted zygotes and fetuses go to Heaven too. Wouldn’t it be better to abort all zygotes and fetuses, ensuring them a home in Heaven after death? Abortion provides a sure path to Heaven, as does miscarriage. This means every Evangelical should be pro-abortion. Better to abort fetuses than to have them reach the age of accountability and reject Jesus.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

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Bruce Gerencser