I recently received an email from a seventy-five-year-old attorney — a former atheist — who wanted me to know exactly what he thought about me and my deconversion from Christianity. Much of the letter was spent on the man telling me how smart he was and how he came to learn that materialistic atheism (his definition) is “the one ism I can say with near-certainty is flat-out false.” What does he believe?
I am content with a belief in a higher intelligence, a genuine meaning and purpose to human existence, and the continuation of consciousness after physical death – all because this is where I believe the best evidence firmly points.
Okay? And he felt the need to share this with me why, exactly? I have been an atheist for seventeen years. In all those years, I have never gone to someone’s blog or social media page unsolicited to attack their religious beliefs or deconstruct their story. I don’t understand the logic behind such behavior other than it makes the person passing judgment feel right or superior. Explain his motivation for saying things to me such as:
No need to respond, because I’m not really interested in you either!
I am somewhat older than you (75), highly educated, and have traveled a not-dissimilar path. However, my landing spot was entirely different and has left me, I hope, less bitter and consumed by anger than you seem to be.
The posts of yours that I have read strike as exemplifying the familiar figure of someone who once bought into beliefs that are patently silly, felt angry and betrayed when the silliness finally became apparent to him, and now harbors deep anger and bitterness beneath a not-very-convincing facade of “atheist liberation.”
I have to wonder to what extent your current position reflects an atheism that is more a knee-jerk embracing of beliefs that are the polar opposite of what you formerly believed (or at least pretended to believe) than a genuine commitment arrived at after a diligent exploration of the best evidence and arguments.
As much as I have enjoyed Bart Ehrman’s work, this was definitely his path as well – “If what I formerly believed isn’t 100% true, none of it is true.” This is a very lazy and short-sighted approach to the big questions.
To summarize, this man thinks:
I am bitter (stated twice)
I am consumed by anger (stated three times)
My deconversion was a knee-jerk reaction to Christianity
I took a lazy and short-sighted approach to the big questions of life
None of these claims is true, as I have made abundantly clear in numerous posts over the years. This means that this man has either not invested much, if any, time in reading what I actually wrote about my journey or he has constructed in his mind a straw man of the Evangelical-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser. I suspect both are likely true.
This man declared, “All I care about, or have ever cared about, is what is ultimately, ontologically True.” To that I reply, “Not me.” I care about a lot of things of life, but “what is ultimately, ontologically True” doesn’t make my top ten list of important things to care about in life. Sorry, but I am sixty-eight and in poor health. I am on the short side of life. Knowing this, I focus on that which matters the most to me: my partner of forty-seven years, our six adult children and their spouses, our sixteen grandchildren, and, yes, our cats — both the four inside cats, and ten or more outside cats (all of which are either stay or feral animals).
Christianity told me that the Bible had the answers to the big questions of life. I learned that this claim is false; that religion has no better (and sometimes worse) answers to these questions than secular worldviews. People are free to ponder their purpose, meaning, and whether there is life after death, but we are under no obligation to do so. For me personally, life is too short to spend much time pondering what life might be instead of living life every day to its fullest.
My reply to this man was direct:
Why did you write me? Your email is no different from those I receive from Fundamentalist Christians. Your false judgements reveal you haven’t read much of my autobiographical material.
Try harder, friend.
As of the writing of this post, I have not received no response from him.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
After reading my first response to him, the young Evangelical pastor sent me two follow up questions:
What interested you with Bart Ehrman?
Did something happen in your life that made you question your former reality?
I have long praised Dr. Bart Ehrman for playing an instrumental part in my loss of faith. Remember, I was an Evangelical Christian; a devout follower of Jesus and preacher of the gospel for most of my life. As an Evangelical, I believed the Bible was literally the Words of God, inerrant and infallible. Imagine spending the first fifty years of your life believing an ancient religious text is different from all other books ever written; a supernatural text written by a supernatural God. I believed the Bible was true in all that it said, containing instruction in life and godliness.
I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years, pastoring Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Sovereign Grace Baptist, Christian Union, Southern Baptist, and non-Denominational congregations. What was the one thing these denominations and churches had in common? To the person they believed the Bible was inspired, inerrant, and infallible — both at the textual and translation level. Not faithful; not reliable; the very words of the thrice holy God.
Dr. Ehrman (and others such as John Spong) educated me about the nature and history of the Bible. I came to the conclusion that Bible inerrancy and infallibility cannot be rationally sustained. All one needs to do is show one mistake or contradiction in the Bible, and inerrancy collapses. If Ehrman’s books taught me anything, they taught me that my pastors and professors lied to me about the Bible, as did countless Evangelical authors I read whose books/sermons claimed the Bible was a supernatural text in both its formation and message. These beliefs about the Bible were shattered by Ehrman’s thoughtful dismantling of inerrancy and infallibility. Once the Bible lost its divine authority over me, I was free to question, challenge, and, if warranted, repudiate its teachings.
I spent most of life adult life with my nose in the Bible. All told, I spent over 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible. I preached 4,000 sermons. I breathed in and breathed out the Word of God, so imagine my shock to learn that the Bible was not what I claimed it was; that it was a book that contained wisdom and moral teachings here and there, but it was a collated religious text written by mostly unknown authors, who made thousands of textual errors (most of which are insignificant, but some, if believed, contradict the beliefs and moral values held by most Evangelicals).
Knowing these things forced me to reexamine my sincerely-held theological beliefs. Over time, I reinvestigated the central claims of Christianity and found them to be false. I recognize that Evangelical apologists can and do have explanations and justifications for alleged errors and contradictions in the Bible. Christians have had 2,000 years to explain and justify what I call their “Book of Claims.” Not evidence, claims. As I was going through the deconversion process, I found the arguments of apologists for the claims of the Bible to be intellectually lacking, if not outright dishonest. Worse, apologists are forced to defend God’s violent, immoral behavior because to do otherwise causes people to question and doubt the Bible. Can’t have that, right?
Let me be clear, I read dozens of books during the deconversion process, written by mainline Christians, atheists, agnostics, and humanists. I didn’t need to read Evangelical authors, because I had already done so. Sadly, some Evangelical apologists think that if I just read or listened to the pablum of men such as Lee Strobel, C.S. Lewis, Josh McDowell, or William Lane Craig, to name a few, I would, in short order, return to Christianity. This is laughable, to say the least. I have read these authors and others, so there’s no reason for me to re-read their books. Worse are Evangelicals who claim that I am an atheist because I read too many books; that I should stop reading books and only read the Bible — preferably the King James Version.
Granted, millions of Christians don’t believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible, but they still worship Jesus. I have dinner once a month with three friends of mine: a retired United Church of Christ pastor, a former Lutheran pastor, and a Buddhist. The concept of inerrancy is foreign to them. Errors and contradictions in the Bible don’t faze them as they do Evangelical Christians. Thus, learning that the Bible was not what I claimed it was caused the collapse of my house of faith. How could it be otherwise?
Let me conclude this post by answering this young pastor’s second question: Did something happen in your life that made you question your former reality?
The short answer to this question is “no,” but I want to address the motive behind asking this question. I have been blogging since 2007. I have repeatedly answered questions about why I deconverted. The Why? page contains numerous posts detailing how and why I left Christianity. If I make one thing clear it is this: I divorced Jesus for primarily intellectual reasons. I didn’t deconvert because the church hurt me or I had bad experiences. Was I ever hurt or did I ever have bad experiences? Sure, as all of us do, but these things had little to do with my loss of faith.
When this young pastor and other Evangelicals ask me this question, he is really asking me, “What is the REAL reason I left the ministry and deconverted?” Unable to wrap their minds around my story and the stated reasons for deconversion, Evangelicals wonder if there is some sort of secret reason for me being an atheist today. Let me be clear, I am an atheist because I no longer believe the central claims of Christianity. Simply put, Christianity no longer makes any sense to me. I find the Bible’s supernatural claims to be irrational and absurd. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
It is true that emotions played a part in my deconversion, as they do in all decisions I make, but I can’t point to one hurt or emotional experience that provided grounds for walking away from everything I held dear. That said, my experiences with Evangelicals post-Jesus have largely been negative, causing more than a little emotional hurt. Evangelicals routinely lie about me, distort my story, threaten me with judgment and Hell, and go out of their way to discredit me. Worse, they threaten me with violence, and even murder. These lovers of Jesus attack my partner and our six children. Preachers preach sermons about me and use me as a cautionary tale, an illustration of what happens when you no longer believe the Bible is true. While these experiences are not sufficient to justify my deconversion, they are enough for me to conclude that Evangelicalism is morally bankrupt. Why would I EVER want to become a Christian again?
The aforementioned pastor concluded his email with the following: I pray that this conversation can go in the right direction of the Lord’s will.
What, exactly, is the “right direction of the Lord’s will?” This suggests that there is some sort of agenda, other than knowledge and understanding. My only agenda is to openly and honestly answer his questions. It is up to this pastor to declare his motivations. I am more than happy to answer whatever good faith questions he might have, but if there is some sort of ulterior motive lurking in the shadows, I can quickly become an arsonist.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I recently received the following comment from an Evangelical man named D.E. Wilson (all spelling, grammar, punctuation, and irrationality in the original).
My question is, if your an apostate and don’t believe in God and turned atheist I presume your unconcerned about Hebrews 9:27, you better hope your HUMAN MIND HAS JUDGED CORRECTLY.
Yes, I am unconcerned about anything the Bible says. It’s just a book, no different from the Harry Potter books. For readers not familiar with Hebrews 9:27, it says: “And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once and after that the judgment.” Wilson wants me to know that I have an appointment with death, and after drawing my last breath, I will be judged by God. And as he stated later, if I refuse to repent and get saved, I will burn in Hell forever. However, since I think the Bible has no relevance for today, I couldn’t care less if someone threatens me with hellfire and brimstone. The only person I fear is my partner, Polly, when she is holding a Lodge cast iron 12” skillet over my head.
And let me add, judgment doesn’t immediately happen after death. Most Evangelicals have no idea about what the Bible says about death and judgment. Even preachers often make unsupportable claims about death and the afterlife. According to Christian orthodoxy, after we die, we end up in the grave, awaiting the resurrection of the dead (just and unjust). After the general resurrection, we will be judged by God and sent to Heaven or Hell. Sorry, Granny ain’t running around Heaven. She’s dead, in the grave, awaiting the resurrection. THEN, she will be judged. (A good read on this subject is Dr. N.T. Wright’s book, “Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church.”
Wilson warns me in ALL caps: “You better hope your HUMAN MIND HAS JUDGED CORRECTLY.” I am confident that I have skeptically and rationally judged the central claims of Christianity and found them wanting. I’m betting Wilson has not done the same.
Now I’d like to introduce you to something new, you were never saved,
LOL! Something new? Really? I have been told by more pontificating Evangelicals than I can count that I never was a Christian. This claim is patently untrue. Have you noticed that when Evangelicals claim I never was a Christian, they NEVER, EVER present any evidence for their claim. And I mean none. They can’t wrap their minds around my story, so, with a wave of their hands, they dismiss my story out of hand. This is lazy thinking, to say the least.
I’ve been blogging for eighteen years; thousands of posts and millions of readers. In all that time, only one person who (allegedly) has publicly said that they KNEW I wasn’t a Christian. This person said she knew me in the late 70s and 80s, but refused to give her name. One person, of doubtful reputation. That’s it. If I was such a fake Christian, how is it that no one, including my colleagues in the ministry, sensed I was a fraud? Thousands of people personally knew me or heard me preach, yet to the person they thought I was a devoted, Holy Spirit-filled preacher.
Jesus says His people are given to Him by God and He’s lost none. Maybe the Holy Spirit will never save or draw you to Christ, because unless you’re drawn by God you cannot come to Him when you like. That’s one of the IFB mistakes that you can come to Christ without the drawing of The Holy Spirit.
First, I left the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) TWENTY FUCKING YEARS before I deconverted.
Second, I never, NOT ONE TIME, believed or preached that someone can come to Christ without the drawing of the Holy Spirit. (No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise that person up on the last day. John 6:44) Even after I left the IFB church movement, I still believed that the drawing of the Spirit (among other things) was required for salvation.
Wilson, as many Evangelicals do, judges me by his own personal experiences. Thus, he had a bad experience with the IFB church movement, and judges me by what he experienced in the past. This is a bad way to judge anything, especially religion.
Sometimes, my critics pick a singular point on my timeline, and judge me from that point in my life. This ALWAYS leads to bad conclusions. I evolved over the years politically, socially, and theologically. This should be considered a sign of growth and maturity, but many Evangelicals think if you theologically change your mind you are sinful or you have taken the first step down the path of apostasy. I was never afraid to change my mind if my studies showed me I was wrong. Over the years, I changed my mind about all sorts of theological positions. My core beliefs — think Nicene Creed — never changed, but my soteriology, eschatology, ecclesiology, and pneumatology evolved, sometimes dramatically.
I know I worked the bus ministry for years and had hundreds of professions and very few pocessors of a new nature, were you one of the thousands that prayed without seeing yourself as God sees you, a lost ungodly sinner who deserves hell and under conviction who broke down with a repentant heart crying out to God for forgiveness.
I was a true-blue Christian; a devoted, committed follower of Jesus. Yes, I saw myself as God saw me: an ungodly sinner deserving Hell. At the age of fifteen, I repented of my sins and cried out to God for forgiveness. There is literally NO evidence from that time that suggests otherwise. If you have it, Wilson, cough it up.
I did, and instantly I knew I was born again,
So did I. And I professed my newfound faith to my church, my family, and my friends. And when I went to school, I professed my faith to my teachers and classmates. And two weeks later, I told my church that God was calling me to preach. A few weeks later, I preached my first sermon.
To Wilson I say, let’s compare our relative Christian lives. I am confident that my life will measure up to yours. In fact, I’m confident I was likely more committed to following Christ than you are, and as an atheist, I’m a better Christian than many of the Evangelicals I know. Shall we whip out our proverbial gospel dicks and see who was a bigger/better Christian? I am game, if you are.
and by FAITH I became a new creature and it completely changed my life.
The same goes for me. Now what, Wilson?
There is hope but it’s Gods doing all of Grace and none of man. He even gives us our Faith.
And I NEVER, EVER, NOT ONE TIME, said otherwise. You seem not to know or have forgotten that I was a Calvinist. Every Calvinist I know would say, “[Salvation] Gods doing all of Grace and none of man. He even gives us our Faith.”
Try harder, Wilson, try harder. This post is your opportunity to challenge me and provide evidence for your claims.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Recently, a Christian man named Marlin had this to say about me:
I dislike Dennis Corle and I know Jack Hyles was evil. But you’re using them as part of your excuse as to why you’re no longer Christian, when it’s pretty clear you never were a believer.
As is my custom, I sent Marlin a link to my response.
Marlin replied:
You’re an old faggot who will burn even hotter for being a scoffer
Marlin reveals that he is either still an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist or his thinking and behavior are deeply influenced by IFB beliefs. By far, the nastiest people I’ve interacted with on this site are IFB Christians.
One tactic often used by IFB Christians is to call your opponent a faggot, queer, gay, or homosexual. This has nothing to do with sexuality. The goal is to marginalize and defame, and by doing so, this allows them to dismiss my story out of hand.
Marlin goes on to say that I am a “scoffer,” and I will suffer greater punishment in Hell for my unbelief. Of course, Marlin provides no evidence for his claim. He doesn’t address the fact that, according to many Independent Baptists, I am still a Christian. Once saved, always saved, right? He also doesn’t address the fact that followers of Jesus can and do deconvert.
When confronted with the awfulness of eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire, many Evangelicals will say that it is not up to them who ends up in Hell. They genuinely feel bad that their beliefs require the eternal punishment of their family, friends, neighbors, and coworkers. Marlin, evidently, has no such qualms. No, in his mind, I never was a Christian, and I will suffer eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire for my unrepentant unbelief. He KNOWS I am going to fry forever. Maybe Marlin is God in drag?
Marlin then left the following comment:
Intellectual reasons? You left Christianity after your neurological problems left you wheelchair-bound. You’re a sad, bitter old man. You were never a Christian because your idol is yourself. You loved your ability to walk and yourself more than the Lord, then claim your superior intellect evolved you beyond the things of God.
In my first response to him, I told Marlin that he was wrong about the reason I left Christianity; that I primarily deconverted for intellectual reasons. Marlin rejects my claim, saying that I “left Christianity after your neurological problems left you wheelchair-bound.” Is there any truth to his claim? Of course not. Marlin has constructed a strawman of me in his mind. Instead of critiquing my life according to what I have written, Marlin uses the strawman Bruce instead. This, of course, leads to faulty conclusions.
I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia twelve years before I deconverted. I didn’t start regularly using a wheelchair until 2009 — after I deconverted. It wasn’t until 2022 that I started using a wheelchair (or walker) anytime I am forced to walk more than short distances. I typically use a cane for short distances, a walker for moderate distances, and a wheelchair for long distances or times when I am required to sit for long periods of time.
As everyone but Marlin can see, my disability began when I was still a Christian and a pastor. My health problems played little to no part in my deconversion. I have never blamed “God” for my physical struggles. Life is what it is, and I accept the fact that chronic pain and suffering are as much a part of my life as breathing.
Marlin goes on to say that I am a sad, bitter man. Marlin provides no evidence for his claim. He doesn’t know me, so on what basis does he conclude that I am sad and bitter? I am neither, though, at times, my pain levels reach #10 on the chart, and I can and do feel sad. Who wouldn’t want relief from chronic pain and suffering?
Marlin again claims I was never a Christian. He then adds that I worship myself, saying, “You loved your ability to walk and yourself more than the Lord, then claim your superior intellect evolved you beyond the things of God.”
Honestly, it is hard to tell what Marlin means here. He seems to say that I loved the ability to walk more than I loved God. How did Marlin come to such a faulty conclusion? There’s nothing in my story that remotely suggests I worshipped the man, myth, and legend Jesus Christ. No, as my therapist would tell Marlin if asked, I think poorly of myself, struggling to maintain a healthy self-esteem.
As far as my intellect is concerned, what else should I use to determine my beliefs and make decisions? I assume Marlin does the same. Oh, wait, with one big difference. His intellect is sotted with Christian dogma and practices. They color every judgment he makes. This, of course, can be true of all of us. Our presuppositions can and do lead to faulty conclusions. That’s why I do my best to skeptically and rationally make decisions without bias from presuppositions. Marlin, on the other hand, thinks his peculiar interpretation of the Protestant Christian Bible is superior to anything I might believe. This, of course, is a common problem when dealing with Evangelical Christians. They are certain that they are “right”; that their beliefs and practices come straight from the triune God himself.
Marlin provides no evidence for any of his claims; just assertions and personal opinions. I challenge him to justify his accusations about me. I am confident that he will not do so because his whole view of me is based on a strawman caricature of me.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Recently, a Christian man named Marlin had this to say about me:
I dislike Dennis Corle and I know Jack Hyles was evil. But you’re using them as part of your excuse as to why you’re no longer Christian, when it’s pretty clear you never were a believer.
Dennis Corle and the late Jack Hyles are big names in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement. I have heard both men preach, and Corle held several revivals for me in the 1980s. I assume that Marlin is either a current IFB church member or a former one. Either way, his comment reveals a common IFB trait: making moral judgments without evidence to justify their conclusions. Marlin says it is clear that I was never a “believer,” yet he provides no evidence for his claim. He doesn’t personally know me, so he has no personal experiences with me to base his judgments upon. Further, he doesn’t provide any anecdotal or personal testimony from former congregants or colleagues in the ministry — you know, people who actually knew me — that bolsters his claim about my salvation. Despite not having any evidence to justify his claims, Marlin is cocksure that I was never a Christian.
Marlin suggests that it was people like Dennis Corle and Jack Hyles who played an instrumental part in my deconversion. This claim is patently false. I don’t believe I have ever suggested that these men or other preachers played a part in my loss of faith. I left the IFB church movement in the late 1980s, twenty years before I deconverted. While I was still an Evangelical Christian, I no longer ran in IFB circles.
I have made it clear over the years that I left Christianity for primarily intellectual reasons. Sure, there were emotional factors too, but at the end of the day, I left Christianity because it no longer made any sense to me.
If Marlin thinks otherwise, I suggest he provide evidence for his claims. Or he can admit that his claims are false. Marlin claims to be a Christian. I accept his claim at face value. If someone says they are a Christian, I believe them. Sadly, Evangelicals-turned-atheists are not given the same respect. Marlin KNOWS I never was a follower of Jesus, and this allows him to dismiss my story out of hand. Accepting my story as it causes cognitive dissonance and theological problems, so it is just easier to assert that I was never a Christian.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Grace: Hello Bruce, I read your article. You were a pastor for many years, and now you are an atheist. Is that correct?
Bruce: Yes, that’s correct. I was an Evangelical pastor for 25 years. Thanks!
Grace: And now you are an atheist? Is that correct?
Bruce: Yes. I deconverted seventeen years ago.
As you can readily see, I politely and pointedly answered her questions. Yet, Grace’s questions were just a set up for her finishing blow.
Grace: Pastors lead people to hell. So you were on your way to hell then and now.
Luther was as much a heretic as the Catholic church.
The great evangelical disaster leads people to hell.
OSAS is Unscriptural.
“by faith alone” is Unscriptural.
Tithing is not NT Scriptural.
Church buildings are Unscriptural.
But at least you worked Some for a livig [sic].
It’s a shame you led people to hell then and are still on your way there.
But, your choice.
Peace
As you can see, Grace is certain she is right and I am wrong. No discussion required. She knows I’m wrong and headed for Hell; that my entire sixty-eight years of life is a fraud; a lie.
Never mind the fact that Grace doesn’t know anything about me other than an unnamed article she read. To that I say:
It’s stupid and embarrassing to give an answer before you listen. Proverbs 18:13
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Anyone can comment on this site, even Evangelicals and Independent Fundamentalist Baptists. All I ask is that commenters follow the comment policy. Unfortunately, many followers of Jesus either can’t read or they think the comment policy doesn’t apply to them. In their minds, they are servants of Jesus, so whatever he tells them to do or say, they do it, Bruce be damned.
Over the past week, a new Evangelical commenter has been commenting on this blog. She has also sent me numerous emails. Her behavior gave me pause, but I thought I would let her continue to comment. Well, today brought the following comment which I want to respond to:
Ar the risk of being given the “boot” for mentioning prayer on here, I was just so touched, I had to send this. I wasn’t gonna say a blessed thing about prayers going up.for your health condition, 🙏 but was clandestinely putting you on every healing prayer site I could possibly find, in hopes that you would begin to regain some strength, and hope that you aren’t “destined” to continue suffering like this.
Yes, you have indeed crossed a line. I do not appreciate your conduct. Did I ask you to contact people and ask them to pray for me? No. Did I ask you to share my health problems with them? No. Yet, you felt you had the “right” to parade my name and health issues before others. You could have kept this to yourself, but you didn’t. No, you needed me to know that you and your Christian ceiling knockers were praying for me, ignoring what Jesus said about praying in secret.
I can’t stop people from praying for me. If Christians want to babble at the ceiling, so be it. However, I am not interested in being apprised of your vacuous, empty prayers. Yes, empty. Thousands of Christians are allegedly praying for me, yet my health remains the same, and I am still an unrepentant atheist. It is evident, at least to me, that prayer doesn’t work. It can’t, because the Christian God is a myth. He can no more answer a prayer than another mythical being, Satan.
That said, if I am instantly healed of gastroparesis (incurable), exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (incurable), degenerative spine disease (incurable), and peripheral neuropathy (incurable), I will repent and put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Time to put up or shut up. Surely, with all these prayer warriors praying for me, healing is but an utterance away.
This commenter gossiped about me with a pastor associated with Catch the Fire Ottawa. This pastor sent the woman a copy of what he prayed (all spelling and grammar in the original):
— begin prayer —
Lord Jesus,
We lift up Bruce to You today. You see his pain, You know every part of his body that is suffering, and You understand the depths of the times of despair he has felt at times bevause of it. He has said that if You cared enough to heal him, he would believe. Lord, we know that You do care — deeply. You cared enough to come, to suffer, and to die so that we might have life.
So we boldly ask, in Your mercy, that You would touch Bruce’s spine and body. Heal what doctors say is incurable. Bring relief where there has been only pain. Speak peace into the storm of his body and mind. Let healing flow through every part of his nervous system, his muscles, his digestive system, his pancreas — and especially his spine. Let him be able to say, “God heard me. God helped me. God is real.
But more than just healing, Lord, we ask that You would draw Bruce to Yourself. In Your gentleness, open his heart to Your love. Reveal Yourself not just as a healer, but as a Father and a Friend. God loves the fatherless. Meet him in the dark places with Your light. Give him hope not only for his body, but for his heart and inner well-being, healing from trauma and deep brokenness.
You often used healing in Scripture to bring people to faith — not just to restore their bodies, but to re-invite them into a relationship with You. Would You do that for Bruce? Not just to lessen his pain, but to show him You have never forgotten him.
We ask all this in Your powerful and compassionate name, Jesus Christ, our Healer and Redeemer. Amen.
Yes, Lord! We ask for a regenerative miracle for Bruce.
Amen
— end of prayer —
What more can I say other than “sigh.” (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”) Just another example of a follower of Jesus who shows no regard or respect for me or thinks she knows what is best for me. Such behavior is unsurprising. I’ve been blogging for seventeen years. I have seen this boorish behavior over and over again.
For the record, I wish I weren’t sick. I wish I weren’t in pain all the time. But wishing, like prayer, is a waste of time. Life is what it is, and no amount of babbling to the ceiling will change that fact. I accept that this is my lot in life. As I mentioned above, most of my health problems are incurable. There’s nothing doctors can do except treat my symptoms and try to alleviate my suffering.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, recently wrote several posts about me, Do Not Let Unbelievers Define You and Why Mention Us? What follows is my response to some of the things he said.
What is missing is the author’s [Bruce Gerencser] understanding of the Christian life, which he says otherwise. He fails to take into account that Christians are at all stages of sanctification and that Christians are still human and use human responses at different times.
Supposedly, Evangelicals are filled with the Holy Ghost. God literally lives inside of every believer, teaching them everything that pertains to life and godliness. Yet, when we look at their behavior, it looks like many Christians — including Thiessen — ignore the teachings of the Bible and the instruction of the Holy Spirit.
Thiessen justifies his “sin” by saying he is just human and God is presently sanctifying him. Thiessen has been a Christian for at least sixty years, yet his behavior suggests he is a neophyte who doesn’t practice what he preaches. If Thiessen is going to judge and condemn the behavior of unbelievers, he shouldn’t be surprised when judgment and condemnation are returned in kind.
Surely, Thiessen hasn’t forgotten that I was a Christian for decades; that I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I am quite familiar with what Thiessen calls the “Christian life.”
We wish we were perfect so that all of our responses would be viewed in a better light, but like all Christians, sometimes outside influences get the better of us all, and we say things in a way we should not.
Thiessen says he wishes he could be a better Christian, but, hey, no one is perfect, right? Fair enough, but when you repeatedly preach AT unbelievers, you shouldn’t be surprised when you reap what you sow.
Besides, doesn’t the Bible say, “Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world?” Did not Paul say, “I can do all things through Christ, which strengthens me?” Thiessen has everything he needs to be a humble, kind, thoughtful Christian, yet he, instead, presents himself as a weak, immature believer prone to the machinations of the flesh.
Instead of being condemnatory, unbelievers should apply a modicum of grace and understanding as Christians face a long, hard road, one that BG could not complete. He should not stand in judgment of others, but be humbled by the fact that millions of Christians are still walking the straight and narrow, a path he could not walk to the end.
I will show Thiessen as much grace and understanding as he shows towards me and the readers of this blog. Thiessen has long claimed that the Christian life is a long, hard road. He provides no evidence for this claim. Christians are human, just like the rest of us. The difference, however, is that Evangelicals think they are morally and ethically superior to the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world.
Thiessen continues to lie about why I deconverted. And he knows he is lying when he says I quit Christianity because I found it to be too hard. This is patently untrue. I deconverted because I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity.
But that is what unbelievers do. They use the scripture to condemn believers and ridicule them. Then write posts trying to humiliate them. Christians need to ignore such inflammatory words and condemnations.
I am not in the habit of condemning people. Thiessen evidently doesn’t understand the difference between critique and condemnation. Have I ever condemned Thiessen? Sure, but not often. I do my best to challenge and critique his assertions. When Thiessen starts attacking my character, I can, at times, respond in anger to him. An anger, by the way, that is often justified.
Thiessen says, “Christians need to ignore such inflammatory words and condemnations.” If Thiessen really believes this, why has he written two posts about me in recent days? I know Thiessen doesn’t like me labeling him as a “bad Christian,” but I call them like I see them. If Theissen had been a member of the churches I pastored, he would have been excommunicated for his boorish, un-Christian behavior. Much like Revival Fires, there’s nothing I can say to Thiessen that forces him to practice self-reflection.
Unbelievers do not understand what is entailed in the Christian life, nor do they allow for Christians to make mistakes. They want to see perfection from imperfect people. We do not need to make the Christian life any more difficult than it really is by letting unbelievers define our actions and words.
Does Thissen really believe that I don’t understand what God requires and demands from Christians? The issue isn’t Christians making mistakes. None of us is perfect. However, Evangelicals think they are morally superior to unbelievers. They demand non-Christians conform to and obey the teachings of the Bible — even though they don’t do so themselves.
I don’t define how Christians should live. I let the Bible do the defining. What better way to show the bankruptcy of Evangelical Christianity than pointing out that their works don’t match their words; that their behavior is contrary to the teachings of the Bible.
They do not know what God instructs Christians to say or do, and since they are not walking in the faith, they have no say about a Christian’s actions or words. Yes, some people do go too far, but rebuking them is up to their fellow Christians.
Is Thiessen kidding? Does he seriously believe that I don’t know what the Bible says about how Christians are to live their lives? The issue is that Thiessen doesn’t like it when I use the Bible to condemn Evangelical misbehavior, including his.
Only Jesus defines Christians and Christian behavior, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, we can overcome those faults that plague our lives. Sanctification is not an easy road, as examples by the many pastors, missionaries, and Christians who have left the faith.
No one should expect perfection from Christians when the world is still full of evil that is very active in seeking to destroy believers. That is another reason why we do not listen to unbelievers about our conduct. Their words can lead to our destruction as they misuse the truth to change Christians and how they interact with others.
Evil is not a thing. Evil is what people do, and Christians do a lot of it. Do I think Thiessen is “evil?” I don’t know him well enough to make such a determination, but I do know enough about his past to suggest that he has, at times, been a terrible Christian.
Thiessen wrongly judges unbelievers solely based on their lack of faith. However, all that matters is truth. All that matters is whether someone is speaking the truth, regardless of their personality and demeanor. One thing I have noticed from my interactions with Thiessen is this: he rarely, if ever, responds to my critiques. Instead, he attacks my character and, without evidence, says I’m wrong. Why am I wrong? I am an unbeliever, and unbelievers are always wrong in Thiessen’s alternate reality. Thiessen is a young-earth creationist. He believes the universe is 6,000 years old. He believes Adam and Eve were the first two humans, and God destroyed the earth with a flood, saving only Noah and his family. None of these claims are scientifically true, yet Thiessen thinks most scientists are wrong about, well, almost everything. Thiessen has very little science training, yet he passes himself off as an expert, complete with a fake PhD.
They are not there seeking what is best for us. They are seeking what is best for them and what they want to see. But we serve God and strive to please him even when we fail. That is the great thing about God. He uses grace and forgiveness, along with discipline, to help us get back on and stay on the right track.
We look to God for our correction when we do wrong and not unbelievers. Jesus defines us and helps us get to the truth of how we should live.
Blah, blah, blah. This is just a repeat of what he said previously.
The words in italics [Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist] tell us that he should know better than to write the content that he does. He is supposed to know all of this, yet excludes that knowledge when he rants against Christians. He doesn’t realize how much of a traitor he is in the eyes of many believers.
Let me stop laughing for a moment so I can respond to Thiessen.
Poor, ignorant, Bruce, right?
He should also know that what he sows, he shall reap. He can be very abusive, immoral, and other negatives in his writing about believers, so he should not expect to be treated with kid gloves by many Christians.
No, we don’t always reap what we sow. Just because the Bible says this doesn’t mean its true.
I have never expected people to treat me with “kid gloves.” However, the awful treatment I receive from people who are supposedly filled with the Holy Ghost is beyond the pale. Thiessen is trying to justify his bad behavior. In his mind, “I make him mad, so he has a right to treat me like shit.” Really, where does the Bible say this? Come on, Derrick, show me one verse that justifies your abhorrent behavior. I can quote a dozen or more verses that directly condemn your behavior. It’s not sin, Satan, or the flesh that keeps me from faith in Christ. It’s Christians like you who stand in the way of sinners coming to Jesus. Your behavior suggests that Christianity is not transformative; that there is no “new life in Christ.” If you think I am wrong, Derrick, prove it with your actions. At the end of the day, how we live is all that matters.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Kind, thoughtful Christians will often object when I reveal how I have been treated by Evangelical Christians since 2007. In their minds, they can’t fathom a Christian threatening to murder someone. Alas, deplorable conduct from Evangelicals is common; more common than polite, respectful behavior. Throw in the Evangelicals who take delight in threatening me with eternal punishment in Hell, and I’ve concluded that my writing either attracts the worst Christianity has to offer or this sort of behavior is normative.
Today, Daniel left the following comment:
I know you’re not lying, but you have seriously had “Christians” send you death threats? I’m sorry. That’s pathetic and vile. Jesus very clearly said if you hate someone in your heart it’s as if you committed murder. Wishing death on an atheist is totally opposite of what Jesus taught (I do believe His teachings myself). Can you expound on this or write an article about these threats? If you have not already.
I have had a few Evangelicals threaten to murder me. One man, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) from Detroit — 2 hours from my home — threatened to slit my throat. Others have prayed imprecatory prayers, asking God to physically and permanently silence me. And then there are the threats made against my family, including my thirty-five-year-old daughter with Down syndrome.
I have received thousands of emails, comments, and social media messages from Evangelical Christians. The majority of them were argumentative, belligerent, and hostile. Evidently, Colossians 3:12-17 NSRV is missing from their King James Bibles:
Therefore, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience.Bear with one another and, if anyone has a complaint against another, forgive each other; just as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; teach and admonish one another in all wisdom; and with gratitude in your hearts sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs to God.And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
These verses tell believers that they are to clothe themselves with certain behaviors. It seems to me a lot of Evangelicals are stark naked.
Here’s the thing: while their behavior is detestable, is it really much different from polite, smiling, Bible quoting Evangelicals who feel duty-bound to tell me and other non-believers that we are headed for Hell unless we get saved? While murdering me is bad, is not consigning me to endless torture and suffering in the Lake of Fire worse?
Even if I returned to Christianity, I would never attend an Evangelical congregation. The damage is done, and the behavior of too many of them is a poor reflection on Jesus. I have no interest in a religion that is known for what it is against, and is one of the most hated sects in America. The first people to object to this post will be Revival Fires and Dr. David Tee. Not surprising since they are known for abusing and attacking anyone and everyone who disagrees with them
Today, I received a long email from a Mennonite man near Somerset, Ohio. This man was a teen back in the days when I pastored Somerset Baptist Church. I befriended some of the Mennonite men who lived nearby. I found the lot of them to be good people. This man’s email reflected that goodness. It was polite and informative, a reminder of the common connections we once had. (Short Stories: Bruce and the Amish.) While a nice letter from an Evangelical man won’t convince me to return to Christianity, it does remind me that not every Christian is like Revival Fires and David Tee. I suspect the letter writer and his fellow Mennonites would condemn their behavior, as I have.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I received the following email today from an Evangelical named Garry (all spelling, grammar, and irrationality in the original):
A humanist and an atheist…..That’s all I need to know about you to dismiss your opinion! My unsolicited advice to you would be to please state your belief system at the beginning of an article you write. Wouldn’t have wasted my time with your article. To be fair however; CT Townsend is a charlatan and the Holy Spirit warned me against him long ago…..just as He has warned me against you just now.
Instead of judging and evaluating my writing based on its content, Adkins dismisses everything I say because I am an atheist and a humanist. Talk about a closed mind. I read Evangelical content virtually every day. I do not dismiss Evangelical writers just because of their religious affiliation. I try to judge and critique Evangelicals based on what they say instead of who or what they are. What’s important is what people think and believe. Granted, it is sometimes impossible to ignore a person’s character and associations, but I try my best to take a person’s arguments at face value.
I am perplexed by Adkins’ suggestion that I state my beliefs at the beginning of every article. Depending on what device and operating system you use to read this site, you will see an author’s block on the top right of the page that details who and what I am. People using mobile devices won’t see this, but EVERY post has an author’s block at the the bottom. Further, there’s an About page that gives new readers everything they need to know about the man, myth, and legend Bruce Gerencser. If you want to know who I am or how to contact me, that information is easy to find.
Adkins says God spoke to him directly, warning him against me. What did God say? I want to know. I have been asking this same question for almost twenty years. Most people who claim God directly speaks to them about me are unable to tell me exactly what God said. Of course, the reason for that is that God is a myth, and the only voice in their heads is their own. Adkins cannot prove God, in the person of the Holy Spook, said anything to him about the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser.
Much like other lazy, indolent Evangelical Christians, Adkins lacks curiosity. Either that or he thinks he already knows everything he needs to know about me.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
