An Evangelical man named Hober Sanovitch — likely a fake name and email address — sent me the following email (all spelling and grammar in the original):
Bruce – I’ve read your denials of Christ and, as a military vet defending our U.S. values, and I applaud your using your God-Given rights to do so.
There is no wall of separation of church & state. We do not have to agree with people but we need to defend against speech that espouses destruction of what America has stood for since 1776. Example: Congress House of Rep censure of Tlib & Omar (Islam Reps (D-Michigan).
It’s entertaining watching people & governments trying to outwit God … and to what end?
What are U.S. values? Who decides which values are American? Hober says he is a military vet who defends these unnamed values. Does anyone seriously believe that the military defends U.S. values, whatever they might be? I am sixty-six years old. From my chair on my front lawn, I see a well-trained military whose primary objective is to advance and protect America’s political agenda and protect the properties and profits of U.S. corporations. It seems to me that the powers that be use the military to “protect” America’s colonial and imperial ambitions. The United States has over 1,000 military installations across the globe. Why so many military bases? What “values” are these bases protecting?
The only “values” all Americans should hold in common are those found in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Military personnel swear under oath to protect and defend the Constitution, as do our politicians and law enforcement professionals. When is the last time our military has been called on to actually defend and protect the Constitution?
Hober says that I have God-given rights. I assume he is talking about the rights delineated in the Bill of Rights. However, whatever rights I may have were not given to me by the Christian God. The rights granted by the Bill of Rights do not come from God, they come from amendments enshrined into law (and later interpreted) by American men and women. God is not mentioned one time in the U.S. Constitution. Not one time. So enough of this nonsense about the United States being a Christian nation with laws given to them by Jesus (who is God). Wealthy white men wrote the Constitution — not God.
Hober goes on to say that “there is no wall of separation of church & state.” This is, of course, patently untrue. Are Republicans trying to topple the Wall? Absolutely. They cannot reach their theocratic goals as long as there is a wall between church and state. That’s why we must fight back every time theocrats even think about taking a brick out of the Wall.
Hober is not a believer in free speech. He supports freedom of some speech — that which aligns with his peculiar worldview. While there’s no such thing as absolute free speech, generally people should be free to say whatever they want (and to suffer the consequences of said speech). I despise street preachers, but I defend their right to stand on a public sidewalk and scream at passersby about sin and getting saved. I defend Donald Trump’s right to spew bullshit every time he opens his mouth. I defend the right of Palestinian-American congresspeople to show their support for the Palestinian people. We live in a pluralistic country. The U.S. is a secular state. We are a free people, although I suspect we are not as “free” as we think we are. The Bill of Rights guarantees the right to free speech. Hober evidently interprets that to mean “only speech that conforms to my white, heterosexual, Christian worldview.”
I would love to ask Hober what, exactly, “America has stood for since 1776.” Personally, I don’t care what our founding fathers “stood for.” Surely, we should know and reflect upon our nation’s 260-year history, but we live in a different day and time, so we must, with one eye on the past, forge our own way.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the past sixteen years, I have received countless emails and social media messages from Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and everyday church members. These emails and messages are typically hateful, judgmental, mean-spirited, and unkind. Some IFB adherents have threatened me with physical harm, including murder. They have also threatened my partner, our daughter with Down syndrome, and our other children. With no decency, no respect, and no regard for how their words might be perceived, these so-called lovers of Jesus ignore their Savior’s commands about how to treat their enemies. The Sermon on the Mount is nowhere to be found in their Bibles.
This behavior is not new, nor is it atypical. Abused people tend to abuse others. When you spend your life being berated and judged — hard, foot-stomping, pulpit-pounding, hellfire and brimstone preaching, brother! — by their pastors, is it any wonder that when they get older, they repeat the same behavior? The late Jack Hyles turned out thousands of preachers just like him, men filled with certainty and arrogance who Sunday after Sunday abuse their congregants with the pure words of God straight from the King James Bible. The late Cecil Hodges, a notable IFB preacher, said one time at a conference I was attending, “We hit our people over the head with the sin stick so often that they duck when we begin to preach.” Boy, ain’t that the truth. When you are psychologically abused and assaulted this way year after year, you begin to think the abuse is “normal.”
Some IFB preachers are nice people with winsome, kind, helpful personalities. By all accounts, they are respected by people both inside and outside of the church. Recently, Republican Mike Johnson was chosen to be the speaker of the House. Johnson is an all-round nice guy. However, when you look at his Fundamentalist Baptist beliefs and practices, you find a very different kind of man — beliefs that are physically and psychologically harmful. Johnson is a true blue believer, as was I. By all accounts I was a winsome, kind, helpful preacher, but my beliefs were anything but.
Does this mean IFB Christians are bad people? Well, certainly some of them are. More than a few IFB preachers are sociopaths, and some are even psychopaths. Narcissism is common. The question is, why this is so?
Hodges’ email was respectful and polite, so I shall respond to it in like manner:
Hello there Mr. Gerencser,
My wife and I have been IFB missionaries in Honduras for 26 years now. I would hate to think that I left my home in the USA and all that is dear to proclaim a gospel that is a figment of someone’s imagination. It would be sad to waste my life in such a way. But of course we do believe it is real and many precious souls have come to experience God’s grace as well.
People commit themselves to all sorts of beliefs that are false, beliefs they are willing to die for. Hodges likely thinks Mormonism is a cult, but millions of people believe Mormonism is true. Mormon missionaries go two-by-two across the earth, preaching the gospel and evangelizing sinners. They are devoted to the teachings of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. If the level of devotion and commitment is evidence for the truthfulness of a belief system, then Mormonism is definitely true. Of course, Hodges thinks Mormonism is false.
How is the IFB church movement any different? Just because people are committed to a peculiar belief system doesn’t mean it’s true. People can and do commit themselves to all sorts of beliefs that are false. None of us is exempt from delusion. All any of us can do is rationally and skeptically examine our beliefs. Hodges believes his peculiar brand of faith is True Christianity®. How does he know his flavor of Christianity is true and all others are wrong? Forty percent of Hondurans are Roman Catholics — Christians in every sense of the word. I suspect that Hodges rejects the claim that Catholics are Christians. How do we determine who is right? Every sect appeals to the Bible as evidence for their beliefs, yet no two of them agree on what the Bible teaches, They can’t even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, and communion. Why, then, is Hodges certain he is right?
I grew up in IFB Christianity in the 70s and 80s.
Hodges was born into and grew up in the IFB church movement. The only religion he has experienced is IFB Christianity. Thanks to lifelong conditioning and indoctrination, Hodges is certain that IFB Christianity is right. I understand where Hodges is coming from, having spent the first forty years of my life in Fundamentalist Christianity. Even though I left the IFB church movement in the late 1980s, I continued to pastor churches that were Fundamentalist. It was only when I pondered whether I could be wrong that I began to reexamine my beliefs. I wonder if Hodges has ever taken a hard look at his beliefs? How many books outside of his IFB rut has Hodges read? (Assuming he reads books. Some IFB preachers don’t read anything except the Bible and the terms and conditions on porn sites.) 🙂 Best I can tell, Hodges is King James Only — an untenable position if there ever was one. I wonder if Hodges has ever read any of New Testament scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the nature and history of the Bible? Until I was willing to read authors who were not IFB/Evangelical, my beliefs remained safe and secure. However, once I started wandering outside of the Evangelical box, I found that many of my sincerely held beliefs were untenable. I tried to hang on to some sort of faith, but eventually came to the conclusion that the central claims of Christianity were false.
Most IFB church members are cradle believers. Born into the church, it is all they know. They have what is called a borrowed faith. While they can point to a time when they got saved, they can’t point to a time when they weren’t surrounded by IFB beliefs and practices. Unlike many mainline sects, IFB Christianity is all-encompassing: multiple church services each week, Sunday school, revivals, conferences, youth rallies, and the like daily reinforce the one true faith (IFB Christianity). When people ask me why it took me fifty years to deconvert, I point them to my childhood, the conditioning and indoctrination. How could I have become anything other than an IFB preacher? My path was paved with thousands of hours of preaching and teaching that reinforced my IFB beliefs. I had no reason to think I could be wrong. The Bible says . . . end of discussion, right?
That seemed to be the tail end of the big church growth movement of the Fundamental Baptists in America. I realize that not all of the pastors of that time were faithful but many of them were. Some people were embittered over bad experiences they had with a particular church or pastor.
The bigger question is why the IFB church growth movement died on the vine. Why did so many of these churches close their doors or become shells of what they once were? If these churches preached the faith once delivered to the saints, why are they in numeric decline? Hodges would have me think that some people were “embittered over bad experiences they had with a particular church or pastor.” Is he suggesting that I am bitter? Scores of people have left IFB churches. Did they all leave because they were bitter or because they had bad experiences? Maybe we should take a closer look at these “bad experiences.” If I could, I would love to share with Hodges the emails I have received from hurting IFB believers. They were misused and abused, and, at times, raped, assaulted, and sexually molested. Bullies abound in the IFB church movement.
Regardless, the IFB church movement is dying because of its unwillingness to adapt to the times. Their rigid beliefs keep them from adapting to the twenty-first century. Instead, they continue to operate using 1950s methodologies. Of course, they take great pride in being anti-cultural.
I would love to know who Hodges thinks were “faithful” pastors. I suspect he and I have different definitions of the word “faithful.”
While I am no longer a Christian, I pay close attention to the IFB church movement. We have family members who are IFB pastors, evangelists, and missionaries. I daily read IFB websites and blogs, and occasionally listen to IFB sermons. I am a member of my alma mater’s (Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan) Facebook group. As someone who is considered an expert on the IFB church movement, I believe it is important for me to keep in touch with the machinations of the movement. While there is a peripheral movement towards more progressive practices, the beliefs of the 1970s and 1980s are pretty much the same as those held by more “enlightened” IFB preachers today. Sure, some IFB churches use drums and guitars in worship now, women are permitted to wear pants, and men can have mustaches, beards, and longer hair, but the core beliefs and practices are still harmful.
In my case I happen to believe to this day that the position of the IFB churches was and is the right position to take although some perhaps executed those positions poorly. It’s sort of like former President Trump I guess. Great policies but many hated his attitude and demeanor.
I certainly take issue with disgraced former president Trump having “great policies.” Many of his policies are contrary to the teachings of Christ. Worse, he is a vile, disgusting human being. Yet, countless IFB Christians voted for him twice and will do so again if he is on the ballot in 2024. I will never understand how any Christian could vote for the man.
Anyway I’m not the smartest guy in the world and my IQ is not the highest.
I can make no judgment here because I don’t know Hodges.
But the whole Christianity thing makes perfect sense to me.
Has Hodges seriously examined and studied any other religion but his own? I doubt it. I would love to know how many religious books he has read that were NOT IFB or Evangelical. Since such reading is widely condemned or forbidden, I suspect Hodges doesn’t wander too far from his IFB roots. I would be glad to make some reading suggestions if Hodges is interested in challenging his beliefs. 🙂
If it’s not real I don’t know why we are here on earth. Not much to live or die for if there is no eternal life.
We are here on earth because a woman and a man had sex, the woman became pregnant, and nine months later gave birth to all the Bruces, Sams, and Pollys of the world. I don’t need a deity to understand and comprehend why I exist. My existence is self-evident.
Does Hodges really believe there is “not much to live or die for if there is no eternal life”? Has he really thought about the implications of a meaningless life without Jesus/eternal life? I don’t know about Hodges, but my life is filled with meaning and purpose — all without God, Jesus, the Bible, or Christianity. Since this life is the only one I will ever have, I want to make the most of every moment of every day. Even in my sickest days, I still try to make the most of the day before me. I am in a tough spot physically with little to no hope in sight, but I still try to do what I can to make the most of my life. Does Hodges really believe life would be meaningless without eternal life; that the only reason he is a good person is that a religious book told him that a mythical deity promises him a home in Heaven IF he believes the right things? Is the promise of eternal life the only reason Hodges isn’t a rapist or a serial killer? If so, by all means, keep on believing. If Hodges needs religion to be a good person, fine. I just wish he’d realize that MOST humans do not need his brand of Christianity to live good and prosperous lives. In fact, I can make a compelling case for the fact that Fundamentalist Christian beliefs keep many believers from being good people; that their beliefs require them to hate, marginalize, and condemn anyone who thinks differently from them.
Polly and I have been married for forty-five years. We have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. We own our own home, drive a nice late-model car, and have two indoor and two outside cats. Our children and grandchildren all live within thirty minutes of our home. Are not these things (people) enough to make life worth living? If all I had was my family, it would be enough.
I hope Hodges will really rethink the notion that he has nothing to live for without the promise of eternal life. Is not this life enough, to live it fully and without reservation?
I give the following advice to readers on my About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
This approach to life has served me well, as it has countless other unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines.
And just imagine if hell is real after all(and I believe it is) then all those who scoffed at that are in real trouble.
Sadly, Hodges ends his email with an appeal to Pascal’s Wager and a reminder that HELL is real. The good news is that as an IFB teenager, I was gloriously, wonderfully saved, so, according to once saved always saved, I am still headed for Heaven when I die. Nothing can separate me from the love of God, right? Hodges could argue that I never was a Christian, but I am confident he can’t provide any evidence to justify such a claim.
As far as Pascal’s Wager is concerned, I wonder if Hodges has applied it to all the other religions of the world. Shouldn’t I also become a Muslim just in case the Muslim version of Hell is true? Shouldn’t I cover all my bases just in case the true God of the universe is Allah or any other deities humans worship are God? Instead, Hodges applies Pascal’s Wager and the threat of eternal damnation only to the tenets of Christianity.
But everybody is going to believe like they want to. Thanks for taking my comments.
My beliefs, for the most part, are based on evidence. I will become a Christian the moment someone provides me with sufficient reasons to believe. I am open to believing in God, but so far the evidence that has been provided to me is lacking or false. Hodges seems to be asking me to believe regardless of what I know to be true. I can’t do that. If there is a God, he knows exactly what it would take for me to come to faith in Christ. Instead, God hides or sends people to evangelize me who seem capable of only spouting Evangelical talking points or cliches. I am more than willing to have honest, open discussions about Christianity, but Bible quotes, sermonettes, or cheap evangelism methods ain’t going to cut it.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
An Evangelical woman named Barb Webb sent me a short email today that said:
It so heartbreaking to me that you didn’t meet the real Jesus. He is still there.
Webb then left the following comment on the post Why I Hate Jesus:
Heartbreaking to read that you were introduced to an imposter not the real Jesus.
I have no idea how much, if any, of my autobiogpraphical material Webb read. I suspect, not much. Her email and comment reflect ignorance about my story and past beliefs. No one with knowledge and understanding about my Christian past would ever say that I didn’t meet the “real” Jesus.
Who is the real Jesus? I believed in, worshipped, and followed the Jesus of the Bible. I assume this is Webb’s Jesus too. Of course, my story is different from Webb’s, so instead of trying to understand my story, she dismisses it out of hand, saying that I never was a real Christian.
What evidence does Webb have for the claim that I was introducted to a “false” Jesus? Is she saying my parents, pastors, Sunday school teachers, youth leaders, and college professors were all false Christians too; that everyone in my sphere of religious influence was deceived too?
I agree with one thing Webb said, “He [Jesus] is there.” 2,000 years ago, Jesus was executed by the Roman government. He was then buried in an unknown grave where he remains to this day. So, Webb is right, Jesus is still there, buried in an unknown grave somewhere in or near Jerusalem. He will remain there, never to be seen again. If Webb has evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it. (Quoting the Bible is a claim, not evidence.) She, of course, doesn’t, so all she has is a faith claim which I reject.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Yesterday, I received the following email from an Evangelical Christian named Kelli Ritter. My response follows.
Hello Bruce, do you really believe that a God that created you a human has to reveal Himself to you to be real?
God didn’t create me, so there’s that. Just because Genesis 1-3 says God created everything doesn’t mean he did. That’s a claim. If you want me to accept and believe your claim, you must provide evidence to support your claim. That’s how the real world works. People make all sorts of claims — including people from my own tribe — that are not true. They are free to believe whatever they want — including religious beliefs such as yours that I consider irrational and lacking in empirical evidence.
Religion is best served when people recognize that religious beliefs are based on faith, and not science. Either someone has faith, or they don’t. In my case, I don’t. If God wants me to believe in him and embrace the central claims of Christianity, he must give me verifiable reasons to believe. So far, no reasons have been forthcoming. Instead, all I see is an ancient tribal religion — a blood cult. Currently, Israel and Palestine are at war over what verses in the Old Testament allegedly say about land given to the Jews thousands of years ago. Thousands of people have died, and for what? A myth. There’s no evidence for the existence of Abraham (or Moses), yet Jews and Palestinians alike are willing to die over words spoken by a mythical deity to a mythical tribal leader. My God, it’s 2023, yet people are dying over interpretations of the Bible.
If salvation is the end-all, it seems to me that God would be clear about the matter. He’s not. Christians can’t even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, communion. Talk to a hundred Christians and you will find just as many beliefs about God, the Bible, and salvation. Who is right? You? The Catholics? The Baptists? Which Baptists? The Presbyterians? The Mormons? 2,000 years of nonsense and confusion. You would think God would want to settle this once and for all. Instead, according to you, he deliberately hides from us and obfuscates what should be clear to all of us.
God doesn’t require you to believe in Him for Him to be real.
While that certainly is true, I must believe in him to be saved and have life eternal. Religion can and does have value. Religion need not be true for people to benefit from it. Religion — including your flavor of Evangelical Christianity — has helped countless people, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. Religion can and does have a placebo effect. If that’s what gets you through the night, so be it. I just don’t happen to need a mythical religion and God to have meaning and purpose in my life.
And He couldn’t anyways because God is so holy and perfect that seeing that kind of perfection would kill us instantly.
God could reveal himself by actually involving himself in the affairs of the human race and creation at large. As things now stand, there’s no evidence that God is involved in our lives at all. At best, he is a deity who created the universe and then said, “There ya go boys and girls, do with it what you will.”
The world looks exactly as it should without the existence of God. We are on our own.
He doesn’t hide himself to play games of believe or non belief. God hides Himself because in our fallen state we can not see His form and live. That’s why He sent His Son. So we would know everything He said from the beginning was true.
How do you know what the Bible says about Jesus is true? Again, you are making all sorts of claims — without evidence.
God’s hiddenness, in my opinion, is an insurmountable problem for Christian apologists. If God wants me to “know,” he knows where I am. He can call, text, or write me or stop by and invite me out to lunch. Instead, all I hear is silence. Well, that and the droning, preachy words of Christians like you.
God doesn’t want your religion and Christianity isn’t a religion although it’s classified that way. Christianity is a relationship with God.
Christianity is a religion, and you embarrass yourself by saying otherwise. While certainly there is a relationship aspect to Christianity, you can’t disconnect it from the fact that Christianity is a 2,000-year-old religion comprised of tens of thousands of sects with countless (and often contradictory) beliefs and practices. The Bible says there is “one Lord, one Faith, and Baptism,” yet history suggests this verse is untrue. If Christians can’t figure out what is “true,” how can they expect the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world to do so?
God saved us from Himself. God has saved us for Himself . And God has saved us by Himself through Jesus Christ. If Jesus really did do all the things the Bible says He did and He really did rise from the dead, then our quest for God stops with Him. If you’re searching for evidence you will never find evidence for God except in scripture.
Well, let’s talk about the Bible, then. You make all sorts of claims and assumptions about the Bible. I am confident I can show you that your claims are false; that the Bible is an error-filled, contradictory ancient religious text; and that its words are largely irrelevant. If you haven’t read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books about the history and nature of the Bible, I encourage you to do so. His books will disabuse you of the notion that the Bible is inerrant or infallible. I will gladly ship one of his books to you, without cost.
When you read the word daily it has a power in it and it starts to reveal things to you. Heavenly things. And it is an amazing feeling to be revealed things from heaven. I hope that you will consider my words and consider Jesus Christ more seriously your spirit depends on it. I will be praying for you. God bless.
I daily read the Bible for most of the first fifty years of my life. As a pastor for twenty-five years, I spent over 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible. I can’t imagine there is much of anything left to learn. The Bible is no different from any other book. With so many new, interesting books to read, why spend your lifetime reading the Bible over and over and over again? That said, I have done my homework, and I am more than happy to discuss the Bible with you.
I found your words annoying, little more than a sermon. On my contact page, I ask people NOT to send me preachy emails like yours, yet you ignored my request and emailed me anyway. Why is that? Why do feel the need to seek out a complete stranger on the Internet and preach at them? What did you hope to accomplish? You didn’t say one thing that I haven’t heard countless times before. Thousands of Evangelicals have come before you, each thinking the Holy Spirit was leading them to email me. If God wants to “reach” me, I wish he would stop sending arrogant, preachy people like you (that’s sarcasm) and contact me directly.
I don’t have a “spirit.” I have a body that is broken, frail, and dying, but no soul, spirit, or other magical entity. Do you have any evidence for the existence of the “spirit?” That’s a rhetorical question. I know the answer is no. Your religion teaches you that you have a spirit or a soul (depending on whether you are bipartite or tripartite), but provides no evidence for their existence apart from a handful of Bible verses.
Thank you for taking the time to contact me. Let me know if you are interested in receiving one of Bart Ehrman’s books.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the weekend, I received an email from an Evangelical man named Richard Johnson. What follows is my response.
To be perfectly honest, I do not know exactly how I stumbled upon your webpage. I do not know you, nor do I desire to pick a fight with you.
You stumbled upon this site either through a web search or social media post. No one “stumbles” upon my writing by accident. Further, if, as Christian orthodoxy states, God is the creator of all things and the sovereign ruler of the universe, he is to blame for you reading my blog.
Not only do you not know me, your email reveals that you have no regard or respect for me as a person. I specifically asked you NOT to email me (please read the Contact page), yet you chose to do so anyway. Why is that? Did you seriously think that you were going to tell me something that I did not already know about God/Jesus/Bible/Christianity? Your email treats me as if I am clueless about what Evangelical Christians believe. I assure you that a have a working knowledge of all things Evangelical.
I am 71 years old, so that makes me around five years older than you. I am an evangelical Christian that has studied the Bible extensively for a number of years. Although I have never been trained in a seminary or been a pastor, the Jesus I know differs greatly from the Jesus you thought you knew at one time.
“Knowing” Jesus does not require studying the Bible “extensively” for a number of years.” Jesus never studied the Bible (as you are using the term), and neither did the apostles. The early church took hundreds of years to compile what you call the “Bible.” In fact, most Christians had limited reading and writing skills, and early gatherings consisted first, of worshiping in the Temple, and later gathering in homes to pray, fellowship, and listen to readings from the Old Testament and other religious texts. You may not know this, but early Christians did not own leather-bound Oxford King James Bibles. They relied on oral transmission of religious teachings.
Speaking of Peter and John — two of the men in Jesus’ inner circle, the Bible says in Acts 4:13: “Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.” Unlearned and ignorant, Jesus’ two closest disciples were, yet their behavior demonstrated that they were followers of Jesus.
How do you KNOW your Jesus is the right one? How do you know I worshipped the wrong one, a false Jesus? Do you know anything about the lifelong trajectory of my theological, political, and social beliefs? Or, have you cobbled together in your mind a strawman of the beliefs of one Bruce Gerencser — an Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist? How much of my autobiographical material did you actually read before hitting “send?” I suspect a post or three before you felt “led” by the Holy Ghost to preach at me. To this, I say, “Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.” (Proverbs 18:13)
The Jesus I know is the epitome of grace.
Jesus is God, right? I assume you are Trinitarian, so you can’t divorce Jesus from the actions and words of his Father. Thus, Jesus, the epitome of grace, is directly responsible for drowning millions of innocent men, women, children, babies, and fetuses in Genesis 6-9.
Richard Dawkins had this to say about the Old Testament God: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
This God is Jesus. Surely you know this, right? Christians love the Jesus of the gospels, but that Jesus is one and the same as the God of the Old Testament and the God of the book of Revelation who will one day slaughter most of the human race and make earth uninhabitable.
The reason why He left heaven was because He regarded our helpless estate as human beings. We are His creation. Satan deceived Eve. Adam chose to willfully sin, and every human being thereafter was infected with a sinful nature. That was why Jusus told Nicodemus he needed to be born again. When someone is born again, that person has a new entity that lives inside him/her that contends with the old sinful nature. In order for the “born again” entity to prevail over the old sinful nature, the born again entity must be fed more than the old sinful nature. Amy Grant once sang a song called “Are You Living In An Old Man’s Rubble. You can find it on Youtube should you care to listen to it. If you choose to do so, please find the version with the lyrics.
Outside of the Bible, what evidence do you have for these claims? Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it’s true. The Bible is a book of claims. If you want me to believe what you are peddling, you are going to have to provide actual evidence for your claims, starting with the notion that we are broken sinners who need fixing.
The Jesus I know and serve is a Gentleman.
The Jesus you know is one you have concocted in your mind, just as millions and millions of other Christians have done. I find it amazing that the Jesus you know looks like you, thinks like you, and believes the same thing you do. How can unbelievers know which Jesus is the right one? Christians can’t even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, and communion.
He died a painful and degrading death on a Roman cross to give us the choice to accept or reject Him and His offer of salvation.
Jesus was executed because he was considered a threat by the Roman government. Your statements about his death are claims for which you provide no evidence. Further, even when I consider your claims from an Evangelical perspective, it is evident you lack a comprehensive understanding of Christian orthodoxy.
Jesus died on the cross to atone for sin. Before the world began, God predetermined that Jesus would die at an appointed time for the sins of the elect. Jesus was a lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. Libertarian freewill is not taught in the Bible. Well, the Bible can be used to prove anything, but most Christians believe that salvation is of the Lord; and that no one is saved unless God regenerates, draws, calls, and redeems them. Jesus said in John 6:44: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
As far as Jesus’ suffering is concerned. He suffered for all of 12 hours or so. Sure, his suffering was painful, but I know people who have been suffering horrible, debilitating pain for decades. Compared to their suffering, Jesus’ was just a minor inconvenience. Please see I Wish Christians Would Be Honest About Jesus’ Three Day Weekend.) Jesus knew deliverance awaited just around the corner. Not so for these people, many of whom who have spent years without success begging Jesus to heal and deliver them
In your listing of 16 reasons why you are not a Christian, reason number eight was simply not true. God sends no one to hell. People who reject God’s free gift of grace are the ones that send themselves to hell. God will honor the decision of anyone who chooses to accept or reject Him.
It is “simply not true” because you say so? Who created the universe? Who is the sovereign Lord over all? Who is the Kings of kings and Lord of lords? Who knows the end from the beginning? Who knows our every thought, word, and deed? Who created Adam and Eve? Satan?
Matthew 24 and the book of Revelation make it clear that it is God (Jesus) who will one day cast all non-Christians in the Lake of Fire. He alone determines who is saved and who is not. I can easily argue that God determined who would be saved before the world was created; that no one goes to Hell unless God sends him there (and the same can be said for Heaven/God’s eternal kingdom).
You want to believe in libertarian free will because it makes God (Jesus) look good and absolves him of all culpability for human behavior and the state of the world. You want to give him all the credit for the good in the world, but none of the bad. God=good, Satan=bad.
In the book of Job, it was Satan that did all the tormenting of Job. God showed the devil and anyone else who read the book of Job the true nature of Satan. The Bible says that Satan will one day spend eternity in hell.
Who created Satan? Could Satan have done anything without God’s permission? Of course not. You seem desperate to protect God’s “good name,” so much so that you are willing to go to great lengths to distort the words of the Bible. Go back and actually read the book of Job without reading your peculiar theology into the text. You will find a God is front and center in Job’s suffering, none of which would have happened without God’s permission.
Satan is responsible for all the pain and suffering in this sin-sick world of ours. He was the one who oversaw the torture, suffering, humiliation, and death of Jesus on the cross.
Again, you are making claims — without evidence. Satan, much like God, is a mythical being. He can’t be responsible for anything because he doesn’t exist. Humans alone are to blame for what happens in the world. It was the Roman government, at the behest of the Jews, that oversaw the “torture, suffering, humiliation, and death of Jesus on the cross.” Not Satan.
Jesus did not die in vain, but He overcame death and the grave. I serve a risen Saviour and His name is Jesus.
I know you “believe” this, but you can’t expect others to believe it without providing convincing evidence for your claims. Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it’s true. Coming to this site and preaching at me and my readers accomplished what, exactly? Your words are no different from those of thousands of Evangelicals who have come before you. Same old shit, new day. Instead of preaching — listen. Instead of preaching — show respect to people you differ with.
I am more than happy to answer whatever questions you might have. However, I have zero interest in sermons or Bible quotations. I know all I need to know about God/Jesus/Christianity. With eyes wide open, I reject the central claims of Christianity. I am not low-hanging fruit; someone who is a prospect for Heaven. I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
A Christian man named Andy Miller sent me a short, succinct email today. Here’s what Miller had to say:
If you have left all tenants [sic] of faith, why do you care, except to build up yourself?
I know, I know. Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”)Child, please. Just another email from someone who has made no effort to understand my story. But, it’s a cold, rainy fall day in O-h-i-o. Why not give Miller the answer he so richly deserves? Evidence suggests Miller is affiliated with the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement.
Dear Andy,
The key to you understanding me is to actually read my writing. Based on what I can tell from this site’s server logs, you read all of one post before emailing me, The Scandalous Life of Jack Hyles and Why it Still Matters. You spent all of two minutes reading this article. You didn’t read the About page or any of my autobiographical material. No one, of course, is obligated to read anything before contacting me, but if you want to be taken as a thoughtful, honest interlocutor, it pays to do your homework.
I have not left all tenets of “faith.” What I have left is organized religion in general, and Christianity in particular. I have carefully weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. I am still a person of “faith.” By faith, I trust that science is the best tool for understanding our natural world. By faith, based on forty-five years of evidence and awesome rolls in the hay, I believe my partner, Polly, loves me. I live in a technologically advanced world; one which requires expertise beyond my abilities. By faith, I trust experts to tell me the truth about things I lack sufficient knowledge to understand. Son #3 is a certified mechanic. While I used to do ALL of my own repair work, I can no longer do so. My knowledge of automobile repair stopped growing in the early 2000s. When I have a car problem, I call my son. Why? He’s the expert, so I put my faith in him to tell me the truth.
Here’s my point, all of us are people of “faith,” to some degree or another. Most of us try to have what I call “reasoned faith.” None of us is a limitless dispenser of knowledge — though I try to convince my grandchildren that I am. 🙂 We rely on others, especially experts, to help us navigate our world.
While I no longer have the requisite faith necessary to believe the claims of Christianity are true, my ongoing objections have little to do with “faith.” If the Andy Millers of the world want to gather together on Sundays to worship a dead Jewish man with blood cult rituals, have at it. If they want to plaster their homes, yards, and autos with Christian signs, bumper stickers, creches, and Jesus Junk®, have at it. If they want to home-school their children or send them to private Christian schools, have at it. If they want to evangelize sinners on public sidewalks, have it. I have no problem with personal acts of piety. Each to their own, right?
However, when it comes to trying to overthrow the U.S. government, establish a theocracy, subvert the Constitution, take over public schools, indoctrinate children, or force others to live by your interpretations of an ancient religious text, I care — and I care a lot. Polly and I are parents to six adult children and grandparents to thirteen munchkins. I am sixty-six years old. I doubt I will make it to seventy. So, my focus is on what world I will leave behind for those that I love. I care a lot about their future. I care about what they are taught in school. I oppose any and all attempts to passive-aggressively force them to participate in release programs such as Lifewise Academy. I oppose any and all attempts to mandate school prayer, Bible reading, and posting the Ten Commandments. I want my grandchildren taught science, and not religion — creationism and intelligent design — masquerading as science. I want them taught the birds and the bees, and not here’s-an-aspirin-put-it-between-your-knees-and-just-say-no. I demand LGBTQ people receive equal protection under the law, receiving the same freedom, liberty, and justice as everyone else. I oppose book bans, music bans, play bans, beer bans, clothing bans, and countless other issues that seem to rile Evangelicals these days.
So you see, Andy, I care because these things matter — at least to me, anyway. You seem to think that I no longer have a right to protest these egregious affronts to our democracy and social order; that once I left Christianity I no longer had a right to say anything. I may have left Christianity, but Christianity sure hasn’t left me. Frankly, I can’t get away from it. And as long as Evangelicalism is hellbent on damaging and controlling my life and that of my family and friends, I intend to publicly push back.
Andy, you made no effort to know the man, the myth, the legend, Bruce Almighty, yet you felt qualified to judge my motives; that the reason I write is to build myself up — whatever the hell that means. “Build up” implies gain. What, exactly, have I gained by telling my story and critiquing Evangelical Christianity over the past sixteen years? I make no money to speak of from my writing. I receive donations via Patreon and Paypal, but these pay costs, and may, if I have a good donation year, allow Polly and me to eat a meal at a fancy restaurant and spend the night in a hotel. By the time I pay taxes on my blog donations — yep, donations are taxable — most years are a wash.
While I have an ever-increasing readership and loyal support from a number of readers — both of which are metaphorical jolts of adrenaline for me — I also attract a lot of negative attention. Hate mail. Death threats. Attacks on my spouse and our family. I am routinely battered and abused by people who allege follow the Prince of Peace. I would shutter this blog today if it wasn’t for the fact that the things mentioned above matter to me.
The only thing I have built up since I deconverted is my credit card balances and the number of shoes, fedoras, and Charles Tyrwhitt shirts I wear. I am sure you meant something else by your attack on my character, but I will leave it to you to explain yourself.
Do better, Andy, do better.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Two years ago, an Evangelical man from California named Daniel Kluver began his stalker-like behavior by emailing me and commenting on this site. He would later contact my wife and children on Facebook. A year later, Kluver was permanently banned from commenting and blocked (and reported) on social media.
During this two-year period, I wrote about or responded to Kluver eight times:
It has been a while since Kluver contacted me. Evidently, he was perusing an atheist porn site, saw my sexy Santa photo, and fearing the arousal of his latent gay desires, decided to fire off an email to me instead (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
You never were a Christian or you would still be one.
Welp, I was a Christian, so according to Kluver’s present theology, I must still be one. He at one time believed I was still a Christian, but he no longer does so.
According to Kluver’s illogical logic, once you are __________, you are always ___________, no matter what you say or do. Thus, I am either still a Christian (which he rejects) or I never was one.
Kluver doesn’t apply his illogical logic to any other aspect of life. If a person gets married and then divorced, is he still married? Of course not. I could use countless things to illustrate this very point. Life if filled with us changing our minds about choices we have previously made. As far as Christianity is concerned, I came to believe that I had believed a lie; that my parents, pastors, and professors had sold me a false bill of goods. Further, extensive study and investigation of the central claims of Christianity led me to conclude that I had spent much of my life worshipping and serving a God that did not exist.
What should I have done? Keep believing? Faith it until I make it? Better to believe a lie just in case I’m wrong? I did what most thoughtful people do: I examined the evidence at hand and changed my mind accordingly. If Kluver wants to reach me for Jesus — and he doesn’t — he needs to provide me evidence that the claims of Christianity are true. Further, he needs to model behavior that remotely suggests he is a follower of Jesus. So far, all I see is a hateful troll whose goal is to harass me.
Stop lying about this and tell the truth that you probably have nephilim blood running in your life.
For readers not familiar with Kluver’s claims I have Nephilim blood, Genesis 6:1-4 says:
When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim [giants] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
The Nephilim are mysterious beings or people in the Hebrew Bible who are described as being large and strong. The Hebrew word Nephilim directly translates to “the fallen ones”. Their origins are disputed. Some view them as offspring of fallen angels and humans. Others view them as offspring of the descendants of Seth and Cain.
The main reference to them is in Genesis 6:1–4, but the passage is ambiguous and the identity of the Nephilim is disputed. According to the Book of Numbers 13:33, ten of the Twelve Spies report the existence of Nephilim in Canaan, prior to its conquest by the Israelites.
A similar or identical biblical Hebrew term, read as “Nephilim” by some scholars, or as the word “fallen” by others, appears in the Book of Ezekiel 32:27 and is also mentioned in the deuterocanonical books Judith 16:6, Sirach 16:7, Baruch 3:26–28, and Wisdom 14:6.
According to Kluver, I am the offspring of a human mother and a fallen angel. He, of course, has no evidence for his claim. He’s just making shit up. I will, however, gladly submit to blood and DNA tests to prove Kluver’s claim. Where does one go for a Nephilim test? 🙂 I’ll be sure to ask my doctor at my next visit.
I have never heard of a saved devil so I understand that you can’t help being a liar.
In classic Revival Fires, Derrick Thomas Thiessen, and Victor Justice fashion, Kluver accuses me of being a liar. Once again, he provides no evidence for his claim. Among outspoken former Evangelicals, I am known for being open and honest about not only my past life, but the present. While I have a few secrets which I shall never divulge, I am generally an open book. Have a question? Ask. It seems, then, that Kluver is lying about me being a liar. Why do so many Evangelicals have such a hard time telling the truth or being honest interlocutors? I am more than happy to have discussions with Evangelicals provided they are thoughtful and honest.
So do you want all your garbage to die when you die or do you still want to bring embarrassment to your self?
Garbage? Unable to accept my story at face value, Kluver has resorted to all sorts of derogatory name-calling — a common Evangelical trait. Today, I am “garbage.” What does Kluver hope to accomplish by this approach? Shitting on unbelievers is not an effective way to reach them for Jesus.
After writing this post, I found a comment that Kluver left in 2019:
Baptist’s suck that’s all I want to say about them.
Okay?
In 2021, Michael Mock had this to say about Kluver:
Kluver seems to have mistaken being full of himself for being full of the holy spirit. Probably thinks of himself as a “straight shooter” who’s just “telling it like it is,” which is one of the top five excuses I’ve heard assholes give for their behavior over the years. But hey, if he has the power — excuse me, gift — to get his prayers answered by the Almighty, then this should be easy for him. All he has to do is get the Lord to address us directly. Have Jesus stop by for a beer. Easy!
Amen.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the weekend, I received the following email from a Christian woman named Alicia. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original. My response follows. Alicia means well, so I do want to extend grace to her in my response.
Hi Bruce,
I just love you. I bet you were an awesome pastor. (And your wife looks absolutely lovely.) I am a believer and I love Tim Mill’s site and your site.
I am not sure what Alicia means by saying “I just love you.” I tend to bristle when Christians tell me that they love me, knowing how “love” is used to manipulate people or as an evangelism tool. Alicia doesn’t know me, so she is not in a position to “love” me. Maybe she used the word in a colloquial sense.
I will leave it to former parishioners to say whether I was an awesome pastor. I humbly tried my best to minister to other people. Whether that qualifies as “awesome” is for others to decide. I do know that there are former parishioners who don’t think I am “awesome.” If these people saw me in a crosswalk, they would probably speed up and try to run me over. ‘Tis the nature of the ministry. You can’t be all things to all people.
Several months ago, I was interviewed by Tim Mills. Over 82,000 people have viewed the interview.
I find it so interesting to see how real believer’s minds change. I kinda get the textual and philisophical reasons why folks deconvert. But what I don’t get is when you guys say that there is no such thing as sin. Well, I do get it. It’s because you guys never wallowed in it yourselves. You actually walked the walk so your consciences are clear and your souls aren’t dinged up from it. You just feel like you’ve been bamboozled by religion.
Sin is a religious construct used by clerics to induce guilt and fear. Properly abused by preaching and teaching on “sin,” congregants are then offered a “solution” for their sin — Jesus. Of course, Jesus is only found in churches that preach Biblical truth — or so preachers say, anyway. Offered forgiveness, once accepted, church members are expected to be faithful attendees and tithers. Preaching up sin is a way for preachers to maintain their hold on congregants, and, most of all, keep the money flowing.
As a humanist, I believe in good and bad behavior — not sin. Many normal, healthy human behaviors are considered “sins” by Christians. People go through life feeling fearful and guilty over just being human. This is particularly true when it comes to sexual behavior.
Trust me when I say that I have done a lot of “sinning” in my lifetime. My religion taught me that I daily sinned in thought, word, and deed, committing sins, according to my pastors, of commission and omission. This thinking led to a lot of fear and guilt. I was worried that the judgment of God was nigh, and that if I didn’t stop sinning God might kill me.
Today, I live a much simpler life. No more fear or guilt, no worries about chastisement or judgment. My goal on any given day is to be a good man, living according to the humanist ideal. (Humanist Manifesto) And when I fail, I do my best to apologize and make restitution.
Well,,Lemme tell you, as a prodigal. THERE IS SIN. I walked away from God and walked in sin and it traumatized me. (Don’t let a Dr. prescribe an antidepressant. They will fry your brain worse than a street drug.) Anyhow,… When I came back to God and read the Bible again…talk about feeling Bamboozled. What a B-Slap! Over and over that Book warns us not to sin so we don’t hurt ourselves and others.
I can’t speak to Alicia’s experiences, but I don’t view myself as a prodigal. I am a truth-seeker. Fifteen years ago, my studies and experiences showed me that the central claims of Christianity are false. Prodigals are people who return to that which they left behind. How could I possibly do so? If Christianity is untrue, what is there for me to go back to? That ship has sailed.
You”re in therapy cuz you were sinned against so horribly as a child. Your precious mother was sinned against and so traumatized. ( Lord only knows what you saw and dealt with as a Pastor.) And as i said…my own sins traumatized me.
I am in therapy for a lot of reasons — childhood trauma being one of them. However, it would be wrong to pin my deconversion on trauma alone. I’m not an atheist because my step-grandmother sexually molested me, nor am I an atheist because of countless other childhood traumas. Sure, these events shaped me psychologically and affected how I engage the world I live in, but my deconversion rests primarily on intellectual reasons, not emotional ones.
I hope you don’t regret too much your time as a pastor. I”m sure you hedged a lot of folks from pain.\
The only thing I regret is spending so much of my life believing a lie. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed being a pastor. There are certain aspects of the ministry I don’t miss, but loving and caring for people? Preaching and teaching? Ministering to the least of these? I would be less than honest if I didn’t admit that I miss these things. Maybe I need to start an atheist church. 🙂
Forgive me if I seem like I”m talking church talk. I really am approaching it from a psychological standpoint.
The problem with approaching my story from a “psychological standpoint” is that Alicia is not qualified to do so, and neither are countless other Christians who take this approach with me.
I know you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, but you are not a medical professional, so please do not send me unsolicited medical or psychological advice. I am not interested — ever.
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
I make it clear that I am not interested in receiving medical or psychological advice — ever. I see a team of doctors on a regular basis. I see a psychologist weekly. I am well-cared for. That’s why I ask people to NOT send me medical or psychological advice. How hard can it be for people to respect my wishes?
Anyhow, please don’t feel the need to respond. I know you are a busy dude. And this topic is treading borderline for you.
Not treading, past the line. I know you mean well, so I am giving you a pass this round. In the future, when someone you don’t know says “These are my boundaries,” believe them.
I wanna say God Bless You, but I don’t want to offend.
So I”ll be more invasive and just say HUGE HUGS to you and your wife.
There is no God, so I am not concerned about his “blessing” in the least. I have much to be thankful and grateful for, but God plays no part in my life. I give credit to whom credit is due, and God ain’t done squat for me. How can he? He is a mythical being.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the weekend, an Evangelical man named Charles Pentland, Jr. sent me the following email:
Sad, you turned from the faith. You’re not the only one. It won’t be long & you will believe it.
I really don’t have much to say to Charles. For the life of me, I don’t understand why Evangelicals think threatening strangers on the Internet with Hell is an effective evangelization technique. Does anyone thusly threatened immediately fall on their knees, repent, and ask Jesus to save them? Of course not. Thus, I am left to conclude that such threats are all about people such as Charles, and not the people they threaten. They have a pathological need to be right, and what better way to show their rightness than by threatening unbelievers — especially atheists — with hellfire and damnation? Evangelicals feel vindicated, thinking, “I sure told that atheist.” Instead, all they do is remind me of why I left Christianity, and why the single best decision I made next to marrying Polly was the day I said to the world “I no longer believe.”
Charles feels “sad” over my loss of faith. Does he really? I doubt it. People change their minds about things all the time. People marry and later divorce. Jesus and I were married for many years — happily so. Yet, there came a day when I realized my marriage to Jesus was over. What did I do? I filed for divorce, and fifteen years later, I am still a happy divorcee. While I lost lifetime social connections when I deconverted, I have developed new relationships with people who accept me as I am, and not for what I believe. My life is better in every way — post-Jesus. Of course, Charles likely doesn’t believe me, thinking that no one can have a good life, a satisfying life, one filled with purpose and meaning, without J-e-s-u-s. All I know to do is to keep living my “sad” life all the way to the grave. Isn’t that all any of us can do?
Let me leave Charles with the advice I give to readers on my About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the weekend, I received several emails from an Evangelical women named Annelie. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original.
Annelie:
Hello there.. I just read your story Blog. I have one question only… And it’s one word…. WHY. ?
Did you walk away from God. Help me understand you.
Thank you for your kindness.
Carolyn:
Annelie,
It’s funny that you should use the word WHY. There is a whole series of posts under the word WHY on Bruce’s home page. Here’s the link: https://brucegerencser.net/why/. Read those posts, then come back and ask questions if you wish more information. The short of it is that Bruce is a voracious reader, and the more he read, the more he realized that the bible was neither inerrant nor infallible. Once he discovered this, he realized that fundamentalist Christianity no longer made sense.
Happy reading,
Carolyn Patrick, editor for Bruce Gerencser
Bruce:
Annelie,
Thank you for taking the time to contact me. Your question is one that has been asked countless times. I actually have a page that lists articles I have written that hopefully answer the “Why?” question. I believe my editor sent you a link to this page: https://brucegerencser.net/why/
If you have any further questions, please let me know, and I will do my best to answer them.
Annelie:
Bruce
I think you answered your own question…..
When you said that you once believed that Christianity was true…
And I hate to tell you that it STILL is… whether you choose to believe it or not.
Eternity is a L-o-n-g Time without GOD.
My heart breaks for you.
Annelie:
Hello again…
Just to let you know that I will not give up on you !
I will not stop praying for YOU. !
A song that come to mind for you is…
“ Set my spirit free , that I may worship Thee,
Set my spirit free, that I may praise Thy Name,
Let all bondage go, and let deliverance flow,
Set my spirit free, to worship Thee.”
Some day when I get to heaven,
I want to see ….. BRUCE : the mighty man of God there,
Singing with all his might…
“ Wonderful grace of Jesus,
Greater than all my sin,
How can my tongue describe it ?
Where can my praise begin ?
Taking away my burden,
Setting my spirit free,
Oh the wonderful grace of Jesus,
Reaches me. !!! “
It is evident from Annelie’s emails that she spent very little time reading my autobiographical material, especially the articles found on the WHY? page. I have come to expect such behavior from Evangelicals. Rare is the Evangelical who actually tries to understand my story before emailing me. (Please see Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait.)
Further, Annelie disregarded what is stated on the CONTACT page:
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
It seems to me that when you comment on a blog or email its owner, the very least you can do is respect their wishes. Sadly, Evangelicals are not a respectful lot. Putting a word in for Jesus, evangelizing the lost, or exposing heresy is more important to them than being decent, respectful human beings.
Annelie asked a question, one that was answered by both Carolyn and myself. Her response should have been, “Thank you. I will read the posts you mentioned, and if I have further questions I will let you know.” Instead, she went into preaching mode.
Annelie seems to think that assertions or claims are the same as “truth.” Saying Christianity is true whether I believe it or not is a claim, not a fact. I provided ample evidence for my claim that Christianity is not true, yet Annalie chose not to read those posts. Instead, as many Evangelicals do, Annalie stomped her feet and loudly proclaimed CHRISTIANITY IS TRUE! She provides no evidence for this claim. She expects me and other unbelievers to just believe her. Christianity, in her mind, is true, because she believes it is. End of discussion. Such thinking might work at countless Evangelical churches, but the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world such as myself require more than bald assertions and faith claims. If Annelie wants to discuss whether the central claims of Christianity are true — I’m game.
As Evangelicals often do, Annelie couldn’t help but threaten me with Hell. Oh, she didn’t come right out and use the word Hell, but it is implied when she said “Eternity is a L-o-n-g Time without GOD.” For Evangelicals, eternity is comprised of Heaven (the eternal kingdom of God) and Hell (Lake of Fire). Everyone goes to one of these places after they die. I have no doubt Annelie thinks I am headed for Hell.
What did Annelie hope to accomplish by emailing me? Surely she knows I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years; that I have an Evangelical Bible college education; that I pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years; and that I have spent the past sixteen years writing about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. What did Annelie hope to achieve by quoting the lyrics to the song “Wonderful Grace of Jesus?” I know all I need to know about Christianity. With my mind wide open, I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting. Did Annelie really think that by quoting Christian song lyrics I would suddenly fall on my knees, repent, and get saved?
In her first email, Annelie said, “Help me understand you,” yet subsequent emails suggest she is more interested in preaching at me than understanding me. Understanding me requires reading my autobiographical material. I make it easy for Evangelicals to “understand” me, but many of them are so damn lazy that they can’t be bothered to do their homework.
Annelie says she’s not going to give up on me. What, exactly, does that even mean? Is she going to kidnap me and beat Jesus into me? I am not low-hanging fruit, someone who can be easily evangelized. Thousands of Evangelicals have tried to evangelize me, without success. Does Annelie believe, with song lyrics in hand, that she is going to accomplish what thousands before her have been unable to do? “With God all things are possible,” Annelie might say. Yelp, everyone who has tried to “save” me allegedly had God on their side too. Yet, I remain an outspoken, unrepentant atheist. It seems, at least to me, that not only are Evangelicals powerless to “save” me, but so is their God.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.