Bruce, You Never Met the “Real” Jesus

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An Evangelical woman named Barb Webb sent me a short email today that said:

It so heartbreaking to me that you didn’t meet the real Jesus. He is still there.

Webb then left the following comment on the post Why I Hate Jesus:

Heartbreaking to read that you were introduced to an imposter not the real Jesus.

I have no idea how much, if any, of my autobiogpraphical material Webb read. I suspect, not much. Her email and comment reflect ignorance about my story and past beliefs. No one with knowledge and understanding about my Christian past would ever say that I didn’t meet the “real” Jesus.

Who is the real Jesus? I believed in, worshipped, and followed the Jesus of the Bible. I assume this is Webb’s Jesus too. Of course, my story is different from Webb’s, so instead of trying to understand my story, she dismisses it out of hand, saying that I never was a real Christian.

What evidence does Webb have for the claim that I was introducted to a “false” Jesus? Is she saying my parents, pastors, Sunday school teachers, youth leaders, and college professors were all false Christians too; that everyone in my sphere of religious influence was deceived too?

I agree with one thing Webb said, “He [Jesus] is there.” 2,000 years ago, Jesus was executed by the Roman government. He was then buried in an unknown grave where he remains to this day. So, Webb is right, Jesus is still there, buried in an unknown grave somewhere in or near Jerusalem. He will remain there, never to be seen again. If Webb has evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it. (Quoting the Bible is a claim, not evidence.) She, of course, doesn’t, so all she has is a faith claim which I reject.

Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Comments

23 responses to “Bruce, You Never Met the “Real” Jesus”

November 10, 2023

BJW

I have a friend who claimed she saw miracles when her father was a missionary in Africa. And yet, no such evidence exists anywhere.

Reply
November 10, 2023

Revival Fires

Really Evangelicals should honor his request to not email him because sadly what can you expect from a pig but a grunt?

Those here want to wallow in their pride and Antitheism and atheism and do not want to be saved or hear the truth from anyone. Even with a huge amount of evidence. Biblical and non-biblical.

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1. November 10, 2023
  
  Astreja
  
  Dumpster Fire, “Biblical evidence” is an oxymoron. It’s an anthology of stories with heavy bias towards mythological nonsense. It also cannot be used to defend its own claims, any more than you can use a Batman comic as evidence for a real-life Batman.
  
  And “salvation” is not possible. Your ultimate fate is identical to ours: At the end of your days you will simply die and remain in that state. Pray all you want; it won’t save you.
  
  Reply
2. November 10, 2023
  
  Matilda
  
  RF: Brief history, Like Bruce, I jesus-ed my socks off 24/7 for decades. Hubs and I were always the first to sign up for evangelistic events, we led lots. We did anything our church asked for, from cleaning toilets to missions and had several bible-teaching roles. So when I, like Bruce, began to have genuine doubts, questions, dissonances and face the possibility that it was all a fiction…….I’m left wondering why, if my jesus/god is so omniscient, he didn’t correct my devotion to a ‘false’ jesus? If he saw how ardent and devoted we were, how keen to be ten thousand per cent True X-tians…..yet we were doing it all wrong….why didn’t he show us our incorrect doctrines and methods? Surely he knew we’d change them in an instant, obey the right ones, so we were following ‘the real jesus’ and jesus-ing according to the bible and his Plan For Our Lives? Nope, not a single word……cos we were jesus-ing right, but following a fictitious deity. Life’s so much better now I’ve worked that out!
  
  Reply
3. November 10, 2023
  
  John S.
  
  Revival Fires, you are obviously reading Bruce’s posts, I would assume including the recent one detailing his serious health issues. So why the “pig” comment? As Catholic Christian myself I feel that is uncalled for. The fact that you are still allowed to continue on this page is a testament to Bruce’s tolerance of other viewpoints . And by the way, I find his concern for marginalized people (including those abused by religious leaders) a lot more in keeping with Jesus of the Gospels than your insulting comments toward an ill elderly man who you disagree with.
  
  I find Bruce’s insights helpful in my own spiritual journey. His page has helped me to gain a more compassionate view of other people.
  
  It is people like you who contribute to a growing negative view of Christianity. Always judging others, I’m sure including other Christians who are not morally rigid enough in your book. You don’t do your particular faith any favors with your posts.
  
  Reply
4. November 10, 2023
  
  clubschadenfreude
  
  It’s notable that RF thinks that we need saved by him no one else. It’s curious how poor RF can’t do what jesus promised in the bible, so by his own “holy book”, RF is a complete fraud. That’s all the evidence I need.
  
  Reply
5. November 10, 2023
  
  ObstacleChick
  
  Revival Fires, your display of Christian Love – calling Bruce a pig – really is a poor witness of the teacher Jesus whom you claim to follow. Your testimony – your words – do not offer anything that would cause unbelievers to desire to follow the leader you say you follow. Why would any compassionate human being think, “Yeah, I want to find out more about the teachings of a thought leader that promotes calling someone with whom they disagree a ‘pig’”. By their fruits you shall know them – by your fruits I see a tree whose fruit I have no desire to sample. I suggest you read Matthew 25 again and ponder the words of the leader you claim to follow.
  
  Reply
6. November 10, 2023
  
  … Zoe ~
  
  I wonder if Revival Fires and Barb Webb share the same Jesus?
  
  Reply
November 10, 2023

clubschadenfreude

Barb is the usual preening twit who has invented her very own jesus.

Reply
November 10, 2023

ObstacleChick

Barb doesn’t know the “real” Jesus either. She knows the Jesus presented in 4 canonical gospels written decades after the death of Jesus and interpreted for centuries by a multitude of priests, pastors, and theologians, with information passed through the lenses of each one’s historical and cultural experiences.

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November 10, 2023

MJ Lisbeth

How is calling someone in Bruce’s condition a “pig” consistent with fealty to the “real,” however you define it, Jesus?

It’s bullying, pure and simple.

As for the question of the “real” Jesus: Whether he’s quoted in the Gospels or described in other parts of Scripture, what we are reading is a textual representation of him. As with any other kind of representation—say, a stained glass window or fresco—it is someone’s interpretation of him. And when we read or see those representations, we are interpreting them. So how can anyone claim to know about the “real” Jesus—if, in fact, Jesus ever existed.

The people who claim to know the “real” Jesus because of a personal experience (of, say, “accepting” him) are also interpreting whatever they experienced. Expecting someone to take such interpretations as the “real” Jesus is at best ignorant and at worst arrogant. (I say this as someone who once believed I had such an experience and thought that others simply “needed to see what I see.”)

I’m sorry if all of this sounds like I wrote it during a graduate school seminar.

(If you want to see a film that examines, in an interesting way, the question of the “real” Jesus, check out “Jesus of Montréal.”

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November 10, 2023

Jasper

Truth to tell, I would not know Jesus if he came up and kissed me on the cheek.

However, I have seen God face to face and lived. He measures up to all the hype.

Apparently, God reveals himself directly to fools like me, and not to great men like Bruce Gerencser who, when he was a Christian, lived, acted and served God just like Jesus did.

Bruce, how did you know to do that? How did you know to live like Christ lived; suffer like Christ suffered, with all the disappointments, betrayals, heart breaks, poverty, and from so many of those around you, apathy?

From the teachings of my Catholic religion, you had the E ticket ride to heaven.

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1. November 10, 2023
  
  George
  
  Jasper. You’re pulling the same tired “you-were-never-saved” routine. That’s easy to answer. I asked Jesus into my heart decades ago and never retreated from it. But much of what Bruce and his supporters here say is perfectly valid. I’m a saved, blood-washed, heaven-destined Christian. But this blog has a lot going for it, notably, when they say that Christian doctrine has holes that are big enough to drive an eighteen-wheeler through. There. Said by a real, shore-’nuff blood-bought Christian.
  
  Reply
  1. November 10, 2023
    
    Jasper
    
    George, I am too worried about myself to be concerned about whether someone else is saved or not.
    
    What was it about my comment that got you all fired up about “the same tired ‘you-were-never-saved’ routine?”
    
    Reply
    1. November 10, 2023
      
      George
      
      Not fired up. But the title of this thread is “Never met the real Jesus.” It’s what everybody says to Bruce or anybody else who deconstructs. You supported that title with your comment. And I showed that you can still be a Christian and yet deconstruct.
      
      By the way, I wouldn’t brag about your “the teachings of your Catholic religion” as you put it. Catholicism is a cult.
      
      Reply
      1. November 10, 2023
        
        Jasper
        
        George, The summation of my original comment can be summed up like this:
        
        I want to be like Bruce when I grow up. I envy his integrity and his iron will to call, “BULLSHIT!,” when needed.
        
        Since such character and integrity are rare as hen’s teeth they are to be appreciated and imitated.
      2. November 10, 2023
        
        George
        
        Okay, Jasper, If you were complimenting Bruce’s integrity, I’m corrected and I take it back (except for what I said about Catholicism being a cult).
        
        Jesus is the righteous dude, but all established churches are for-profit corporations (regardless of non-profit status) that should be taxed or closed.
        
        Once again, I was wrong about what you said. With all of the backs-and-forths on these threads, it’s hard to keep everything straight.
2. November 10, 2023
  
  clubschadenfreude
  
  Funny how jasper, also known as various other names on the debunking christianity website, fails to show his imaginary friend exists. each christian invents his jesus to conform to what he wants. Unsurprisingly, jasper can’t do what jesus promised per the bible, showing “jasper” to be just one more fraud.
  
  Reply
3. November 11, 2023
  
  GeoffT
  
  “ However, I have seen God face to face and lived. He measures up to all the hype.”
  
  That’s some claim you make there. Care to elaborate and explain why this wasn’t a delusion?
  
  Reply
  1. November 11, 2023
    
    Jasper
    
    GeoffT, To keep the religious preaching to a bare minimum let me just say that there exists a veil between our world of suffering and death, and the divine realm.
    
    John the Apostle’s book, Apocalypse (Greek for unveiling), also known as Revelation is about what he saw when the veil came down for him.
    
    At first I thought I was having a delusion. I found out it wasn’t a delusion because it happened on a mountain top in broad daylight and I was able to interact with what was presented to me.
    
    Delusions typically assault the freewill thus imprisoning the deluded person. I was free to leave at any time. I was free to interact or not. I was free to think about what I was seeing.
    
    I’ve been thinking about it for over 30 years and still have no clue concerning the why of it.
    
    Reply
    1. November 11, 2023
      
      … Zoe ~
      
      Jasper you wrote: ” I found out it wasn’t a delusion because it happened on a mountain top in broad daylight and I was able to interact with what was presented to me.”
      
      Zoe: I don’t see how this proves your point about your experience “not” being a delusion Jasper.
      
      Reply
      1. November 11, 2023
        
        Jasper
        
        Zoe, “A delusion is a false belief or judgment about external reality, held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, occurring especially in mental conditions.”
        
        I saw what I saw with my own eyes. We can argue all day whether or not I was deluded.
        
        Atheists think I am deluded. Most Christians think I am just plain weird.
        
        Why would God reveal himself to a jack squat nobody, a person of no authority or importance, a commoner? What’s the use? What practical purpose was served?
        
        So I understand your point.
      2. November 12, 2023
        
        … Zoe ~
        
        I understand your point Jasper. However, mental condition or possibly not, a delusion isn’t a false belief &/or judgement to the one experiencing it. It’s very real. Those who experience them do see them with their own eyes as with other senses. Often, people panic at the idea that their experience may have been a delusion. Is it wrong if it was?
        
        You wrote: ” What practical purpose was served?”
        
        I think that is a good question.