Russ Wold, a Christian man from Yuma, Arizona, stopped by this blog the other day to peruse my writing. After spending a few minutes reading several posts, Wold was ready to render judgment:
You are an amazing specimen, or perhaps I should say, . . . FOOL. It is incredible that one individual can display as much confusion, bitterness, and discord, as you are revealing you have fallen into and are determined to wallow in . . . like a pig in the mud. You not only followed, . . . but served, the ecclesiastical disaster called CHURCH, which has evolved from the Roman Religion of the Popes, for many years without a clue as to the fact that it…IS NOT…”the faith which was once delivered unto the saints,” but then when you finally saw the hideousness of man’s religious contrivances (sectarian religious clubs), you turned to hate instead of to The Lord Jesus Christ whom you had long been pretending to serve. I leave it there! And I leave you and your website with disgust, and with dismay that a human being can even be capable of such blindness, delusion, and confusion. You deceived people for many years in “the church” . . . and now you are deceiving people still.
I wonder what Wold hoped to accomplish with his email? He doesn’t know me, and he made no effort to remedy his ignorance. According to the logs for his IP address, Wold came to this site via a Bing search. He first read the post titled Poking Geri Ungurean, An Evangelical Conspiracy Theorist. Three minutes later, he loaded the front page and, I assume, read one or more posts. (I don’t use post excerpts, so someone accessing the front page can read one to eight posts and it only shows as one post. I do this to make this site easier to read. Fewer clicks, more content.) Thirty minutes later, Wold sent me the aforementioned email. Two minutes after that, he re-sent his Christ-honoring email. Twelve minutes later, Wold read the post titled Why I Hate Jesus. And then, much like the vile snakes before him, Wold slithered off into the night.
Wold made no attempt to engage me in any way. He didn’t comment on any of the posts he read, nor did he mention them in his email. Wold couldn’t be bothered to read any of my autobiographical material, in direct disobedience to the Word of God. Proverbs 18:13 says: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.
Wold belongs to a group of Christians who think they have found “true Christianity.” Wold looks at 2,000 years of Christian church history and says “fake news.” I saw this same kind of thinking in the house church movement in the late 1990s. Organized religion was bad, small living room-based churches were good. The early church met in homes, and so should modern twenty-first-century churches. Wold thinks organized Christianity is a false religion, the evil child of Roman Catholicism. In his mind, he and his fellow band of travelers have found the “faith once delivered to the saints.” Everyone else, of course, is worshiping a false God in false churches led by false prophets. According to Wold, I was a false prophet back in my preaching days, and I am still a false prophet today.
Well . . . enough. Time for me to get back to false propheting, back to deceiving you, dear readers. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Last week, I received the index card above in my mail from Tommy Steverson, a 70+-year-old Evangelical man who lives in New Orleans, Louisiana. Today, I received a six-page single-spaced letter from Steverson, along with a tract and tract-like business card.
The tract-like business card is a lame attempt to prove that no human is a “good person.” Titled “The Good Person Test,” the card says:
Place your left thumb on the gold square and leave it for eight seconds. If you are a GOOD person then the gold square will turn green.
The back of the card says, in part, Did you pass the test? The fact is no one can pass the test.
Proof that I am a good person. Prove me wrong! 🙂
Well, that’s a lie. I put my left thumb on the gold square and left it for eight seconds. Low and behold, the square turned green! That means I am a good person. I don’t need to be saved from sin because I’m not a sinner. I am not perfect, but I am, indeed, a good person.
Steverson’s letter is titled “Crispy Critters.” The gist of the letter is that I will one day be a “crispy critter” in Hell unless I repent of my sins and accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Steverson ends his letter with Revelation 21:8 (NIV):
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death
Steverson poses what he calls three salient questions to atheists, agnostics, skeptics, and card-carrying unbelievers (all grammar in the original):
How is it that four different men [the writers of the gospels], and countless eyewittnesses, never recognized or recorded, even “one” instance of pride in Jesus Christ, in three and one half years of his life? How is that possible?
How is it, that four different men, and countless eyewitnesses, never heard of recorded even “one” instance of the words” I’m sorry, I made a mistake or please forgive me, from the lips of Jesus Christ? How is that possible.
How is it, that you probably never recognized any of this yourself? How is that possible?
Let me answer Steverson’s third question. The reason atheists, agnostics, skeptics, and card-carrying unbelievers don’t “recognize your claims” is because they aren’t true. We have no idea who wrote the gospels. They most certainly are not eyewitness accounts. We have no idea what kind of person Jesus was, or if the Jesus of the gospels remotely resemble the Jesus of first-century history. We do know that Jesus was a “man.” Thus it seems reasonable to believe that he had the same passions as the rest of us. The Bible is little more than a fairy tale shaped around a very human first-century man named Jesus.
It’s clear from Steverson’s letter that he is a Fundamentalist Christian who believes the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. This faith claim cannot be intellectually or rationally supported. If Steverson would like to talk about this subject with me, I would be glad to do so. If not, I encourage him to read several of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books. Ehrman is a New Testament scholar at the University of North Carolina. Author of numerous books on the text and history of the Bible, Ehrman disabuses Evangelicals of the notion that the Bible is in any way an inerrant/infallible book written by a supernatural God.
I won’t bother with the rest of Steverson’s long-winded, incoherent rant. New day, same old shit. If you would like to read the complete text of Steverson’s letter:
Steverson signed off saying, “Have a Nice Eternity.” In other words, “Bruce, I hope you enjoy burning in Hell.”
Sigh . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I received this message in the mail today from Tommy Steverson, a 70+-year-old man who lives in New Orleans, Louisiana. Evidently, Steverson thinks I “love” being right. Well, shit, who doesn’t like to be right? I don’t know about you, but I prefer to be right about things as much as possible. Who wants to go through life being “wrong” all the time. That said, I don’t “love” being right. My “love” list is quite small: Polly, our six children, and our thirteen grandchildren. Love, to me anyway, is that which I am willing to die for. I will stand in the way of a bullet for my family — that’s love. But, everything else in my life falls on a scale between like and indifference.
It’s too bad Steverson wasn’t clearer on what prompted him to buy a stamp and sent me a file card in an envelope. All I can do now is say huh? and point out his grammar error: it’s you’re not your.
Of course, it’s possible that Steverson dipped the file card in some sort of toxic nerve agent and I will soon be dead, as will Polly. Ya never know, right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Damn, I love typing the word r-i-g-h-t. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Our assessment of BG. We are not going to post this publicly so do not worry about being humiliated or embarrassed.
We have analyzed BG’s behavior and words for some time now and we see a developing identity. He is a person who was a low-level obscure independent Baptist preacher who certainly gets jealous and envious of others.
His Christian work seems to have been motivated by these desires as he used his own will and not Jesus’ in his ministry as well as his being critical of those more successful, popular, and less obscure counterparts.
Instead of humbling himself and correctly following Jesus, he followed his character trait and quit. That is not a sign of a good servant of God. He likes to stand in judgment of others grading their level of spirituality with a subjective ruler judging that those observed were not practicing the faith properly.
What exact standard he used is not known, but it was his own making and not God’s. Then instead of being the example, he walks away and condemns every Christin [sic] and God for failing to meet his ideals.
Now he is just a narcissist who hopes he gains the fame and popularity that escaped him when he was a Christian. he wants to leave a negative legacy behind so that people will think he was a great preacher and now a great blogger.
In reality, he remains obscure, uninfluential , and wants to be the center of attention like he has found something new and wonderful for the world, when he is just another unbeliever in a line filled with billions of unbelievers saying the exact same thing as every other unbeliever has said or is saying.
He is a sad and pathetic figure who needs to broadcast his failure to follow Christ to the end of the world and instead of being great, he makes himself a laughingstock. Someone who could not cut it.
And yes we are still sad that you walked away from your faith.
— end of email —
I will not mention this man by name nor will I link to his website. Long-time readers will know exactly who this small-minded, pathetic man is. He wrongly thinks that his words, if made public, will humiliate and embarrass me. Why? His email tells readers more about him than it does me, and readers will see it for what it is: an email from a man who is jealous that I have found happiness and peace without Jesus and the strictures of Fundamentalist Christianity. He wishes he could have what I have, and because his religion keeps him from entering the Promised Land and enjoying its fruits, he stands outside chucking rocks and hurling epithets at me, much like the playground bully.
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
As is my habit, on the first of every year I reset the banned and blocked lists for this site. And as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, those who have been banned and blocked in 2021 try to reprise their banishment in 2022. I have already banned (unable to comment) and blocked (unable to access this blog) three people, including Deacon John.
Deacon John is a “special” type of troll, one who goes out of his way to threaten me with Hell, often in graphic, pornographic detail. Over the years, he has gone by different names and used different tactics to reach me with his vile messages. Yesterday, Deacon John left the following comment:
The sad and short answer to this question is this:
The reason you “deconverted”. Is because you were likely never converted to begin with.
God’s Word speaks of a great falling away during the last days. False believers will weed themselves out like this. Sad but true 😭😢.
It is highly unlikely that someone could be in the Holy Spirit and the light of Jesus Christ then turn around and run into the demonic darkness known as atheism,anti-Christianity.
Yes you preached you knew the Bible front and back but you obviously trusted in Bruce for salvation and not Jesus.
This world is getting sicker and darker by the minute. ☹️
Evil is being called good. Good is being called evil.
“Woe unto you who call evil good and good evil that put light for darkness and darkness for light “ Isaiah 5:20.
It’s a world where we have women who can’t watch some eat a steak without bawling their eyes out because it was once a baby cow.
Or watch someone eat a BLT because it was once a baby pig.
But WILL NOT SHED ONE TEAR when a baby human is ripped apart limb by limb in its mothers womb. 😡
We have men who think cleaning a fish or skinning a deer is gross. But have no problem putting their mouths on another man’s butthole 🤢🤮.
Because that’s “LOVE”
First an abomination is ignored Then it is legalized Then those are called “Haters” they share the truth that it is an abomination!
Atheism is one of Satan’s biggest strategies to keep the USA blind and away from the only one who can save them.
JESUS CHRIST!
“Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world “ John 1:29
Now listen up.
Those who have ears let them hear!
One day everyone ever conceived is going to stand before Jesus Christ and will acknowledge him as Lord and King.
Children who died too young to make the decision to accept him or people not mentally make a decision to accept him are covered by his grace and will live eternally with him.
(In case you are wondering or have snide mocking response SIN is the reason for children dying and disease most NOT ALL but most atheists support baby murder pre born infantcide so why would care anyway)
Those who have consciously trusted him for forgiveness and eternal salvation will spend eternity with him rejoicing for their salvation! 🙂
Those who have chosen to reject him will live eternally separated from him in hell in despair and regret for their decision. And it is no party!
It will be torment and fear like you have never known before!
Demonic torment, fire that never goes out, weeping, gnashing of teeth,gnawing your tongue in agony,screaming, a horrendous physical thirst for one uno drop of water! Also a desire for unsaved family to accept Jesus and not go to hell.
And what is even sadder is that the lost and blind atheist thinks that is what soul winning evangelists want for them! NO! That’s ridiculous.
That’s why we warn you. We DO NOT want any of you to perish in a Christless hell.
And neither does he.
The Holy Spirit is more powerful than the deceiver.
Admit you have been deceived and you are a sinner.
Believe sincerely that Jesus Christ died and rose again.
Trust and accept him now.
Pray, “LORD GOD I KNOW I AM A SINNER AND I CANNOT SAVE MYSELF I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST SUFFERED AND DIED AND ROSE AGAIN I TRUST AND ACCEPT HIM NOW PLEASE PULL ME FROM THE SEWERS OF ATHEISM INTO NEW LIFE WITH CHRIST IN JESUS NAME AMEN “
As you can tell, Deacon John is a sick, perverse man, and his screed is a good example of how Fundamentalist Christianity can corrupt every aspect of your life.
ObstacleChick, a friend of mine and an occasional guest writer for this site, decided to respond to Deacon John, giving a brilliant summary of his comment:
Summary of Deacon John’s Screed, as interpreted by former fundamentalist evangelical turned atheist ObstacleChick:
1) Use of “no true Scotsman” fallacy
2) Mocking vegetarianism and/or veganism with a seasoning of misogyny included for good measure
3) Gratuitous abortion rant
4) Anti-LGBTQ rant, with fixation on rim-jobs (hmmmm….is this Deacon John’s Favorite Porn?)
5) Atheism = Satan
6) Age of Accountability used to try to mask the horror of doctrine that children, toddlers, and infants should deserve hell due to Original Sin
7) Another gratuitous abortion rant, with Blame the Bad Things on Humans Because SIN
8) HELL – the Crown Jewel scare tactic in the evangelical’s arsenal – it’s the Humans’ Fault
9) Monologue on the Glory of Eternal Torture aka Torture Porn for Your Tribe’s Enemies
10) Wham Bam Thank You Ma’am Repeat This Magic Prayer Chant and Voila – Eternity in HEAVEN!!!!
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Today, Donald is back, except his name is now Fred “Uncle Fred” Mullins. Donnie Boy Fred has a grammatical tell, so I knew Donald and Fred are the same person. Further, I suspect Don and Fred is also Tom (please see IFB “Love”) and John I’ve dealt with in the past.
Fred, an anal sex obsessed coward who hides behind pseudonyms and fake email addresses as he rails against the Evangelical-preacher-turned atheist Bruce Gerencser, has abandoned all pretense of “love” and “concern,” with his latest comments. This time, he not only goes after me, but he also goes after Carolyn, my editor, and ObstacleChick, a friend of mine and a guest writer for this site. Fred, who gets an erection just thinking about atheists being tortured by God in Hell for eternity, must be desperate. Unable to reach me with his perverse “love” and “concern,” he’s now trying to threaten my friends into believing in his hateful, violent, homophobic deity.
Since my writing causes Fred to have erotic fantasies about me and my friends, I have blocked him from accessing this site. I am sure, much like a pervert seeking out porn at any cost, Fred will find a way to avoid my block, but until he does he won’t be able to leave any more comments.
What follows are the comments Donnie Boy Fred has sent me today:
Atrocious grammar and spelling in the original.
Comment One
It is highly obvious that Bruce’s heart was never transformed by the Holy Spirit.
A person can preach and profess Christ and still be lost if they are not trusting in him alone.
I’m not his judge but from what I have read it appears bruce was trusting in good morals [ too bad you are not] and his work as a minister. Rather than the shed blood of Jesus Christ through his death,burial and resurrection.
Salvation is by grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone.
He suffered for you! He had his beard tore out his flesh beaten to shreds and spikes driven through his hands and feet.
He hung on the cross is agony for 6 hrs. Died to pay the penalty for sin and three days later rose again to give you eternal life.
Now the Bible talks about the great falling away in the last days. Does that describe Bruce? I do not know.
God’s Word says he remains faithful to us even if we lose faith in him for he cannot deny himself.
I sincerely hope that Bruce was truly saved and just fell into deep satanic deception and will only lose eternal rewards and not his soul.
TRUTH IS: For the follower of Jesus Christ this cesspool of a sinful world that is getting worse by the day is the only hell we will ever know!
For the lost person (atheist,Anti-Christian,those trapped in false religions, those trying to earn salvation through good works and religion) this sick world is the only heaven they will ever know 😭
And if you continue with the choice to live and trust in your sinful self and reject the grace of Christ I strongly suggest you had best try to stay healthy and alive for as long as you can!
On the death bed spit,fart ,scream ,rip the sheets tear the pillow , chew the pillow ,etc to do whatever it takes to stay alive in this world! Because once you slip all the way through you will be in torment unimaginable and will wish your parents never did the deed!
Comment Two
Yes buddy boy God does exist.
And those who practice iniquity like faggot loving will be punished like that Agag obstacleagagchick
Comment Three
Hell is REAL! HOT! And VERY TERRIFYING AND FOREVER! And you and little Carolyn and obstaclechick who also never trusted Christ are not going to like it.
Comment Four
Satan (and yes buddy rough he is REAL) now has most of the USA and world convinced that this sick demonic atrocity is “Normal “. And “love”. While precious souls lost in homosexuality pour into hell and he and every demon laugh their heads off!! 😡😡
However Jesus Christ has saved many out of this trap! Two good friends of mine have been saved out of it. Through Christ using the XXXXXXX ministry.
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several days ago, I received an email from an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) zealot named Noah Zielke. Zielke ignored my requests on the Contact Page and emailed me anyway. What follows is my response to him. Best I can tell, Zielke is a computer science major at the University of Alabama. I do give him credit for reading some of my autobiographical material, along with a few posts about the IFB church movement.
I publicly responded to Zielke’s email with a post titled IFB Zealot Says He’s Surprised God Hasn’t Killed Me Yet — Part One. As I expected, Zielke responded to my post with another email. What follows is the text of his email and my indented and italicized response.
Thanks for the response, I have only a few points to reply:
Yes, you ignored or disregarded pretty much everything I said.
In regard to: “It’s evident your momma didn’t raise you right, that you lack basic decency and respect for other people. This is a common trait among IFB Christians. What kind of person goes around calling people he disagrees with “stupid”?”
I assume you are being a bit tongue-in-cheek having read your other content, but if not, this is pretty hypocritical. One of your flagship articles is practically a treatise on how much you hate evangelicals, but you abstract this by making it seem like you just hate the “Jesus” that we have apparently constructed (which you just use as an effigy for us).
No, I was not being tongue-in-cheek. Going around calling people who disagree with you “stupid” is indecent and disrespectful. Outside of Donald Trump, you won’t find me saying anywhere that I hate anyone. Sorry, hating people is not in my DNA. Oh, it was at one time. Love what God loves, hate what God hates. And since God hates sinners, Christians should too. Such thinking caused untold harm to self and others.
I am a plain-spoken person. People who “misunderstand” my words typically do so on purpose — as you are doing here. If I “hated” someone, the readers of this blog would know it.
You reference the post Why I Hate Jesus in your thinly veiled attempt to smear my character. You are certainly not the first nor the last person to attempt to do so. Rather than take what I wrote at face value, you choose instead to attribute ulterior motives, and in doing so, attack my character.
The aforementioned post is difficult for Fundamentalists, who are Bible literalists, to parse. Such people have a hard time understanding metaphors. I don’t hate Jesus — he’s dead. I don’t hate people — including Evangelicals. So what do I mean when I say in this post I hate Jesus? As you discerned and then quickly turned it into a personal attack, the “Why I Hate Jesus” post is about Evangelical beliefs — not flesh and blood Evangelicals. It is Evangelical beliefs I hate, not Christians themselves.
I make no apology for my opposition to Evangelical beliefs and practices. And let me be clear here, I vehemently oppose Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) beliefs. The IFB church movement is a cult that causes untold heartache and pain. IFB churches and colleges are dying on the vine. I hope I am alive when the movement draws its last breath. I would love to be the one holding a pillow over the IFB movement’s face, ending its reign of psychological (and at times, physical) harm. Do I “hate” IFB preachers and church members? Of course not. I have family members who are IFB preachers, evangelists, and missionaries. I regularly interact with IFB adherents, hoping through my writing and private emails to help them see that one can be a Christian without buying into the violence and harm peddled by IFB churches and pastors.
My goal has never been to evangelize for atheism. That said, more than a few people have said that my writing was instrumental in their deconversion. Am I grateful for this? Absolutely. The goal of any writer is to persuade and help people. If I play some small part in helping people break free from the pernicious chains of Fundamentalism, I’m fine with that.
You recommend a book in which Jesus is called a “Stupid, Working-Class Hick from Galilee” (End of Christianity Ch. 2, John Loftus) among other things. Your general tone is condescension (occasionally love and understanding, it depends on the article).
John Loftus is an acquaintance of mine. I recommend John’s books because I think doubting Evangelicals will find his writing helpful. This doesn’t mean that I agree with everything John writes or says. I will leave it to John to defend his word choices.
You will find all sorts of atheists using the word stupid. I don’t use the word when referencing people — not in a literalist sense anyway. Have I ever said someone is stupid or ignorant? Sure. But my focus is always on their beliefs, not their person. I think you hold stupid, ignorant beliefs. That doesn’t mean, however, that I think YOU are stupid. Indoctrinated? Ill-informed? Lacking knowledge? Sure. But, not “stupid.”
Basically, it seems like you delight in pushing people to anger by crudely attacking everything that they believe, and then when they respond you act like an innocent do-gooder (like a big brother punching his younger brother and then acting innocent when the younger brother retaliates).
There ya go again with the attacks on my character. You just can’t help yourself. Again, I attribute this to your IFB upbringing. It’s just part of your metaphorical DNA.
I do two things on this blog: tell my story and critique Evangelical Christianity. I am pointed and direct. I have never been one to mince words. This is who I am. Don’t like it? Don’t read my writing. That thousands and thousands of people read my writing suggests that most readers connect with and appreciate what I have to say — including some Evangelical Christians.
I am just one man with a story to tell. If what I say provokes Christians to anger, what does that say about them and their faith?
I find it interesting, Noah, that you haven’t made one attempt to challenge my beliefs or conclusions. Why is that? Instead, you go after my character, assigning false motives to my work. Instead of accepting my story at face value, you have built in your mind a straw-man Bruce Gerencser. Doing so, allows you to dismiss what I say out of hand.
I think that if everyone is honest, they subconsciously believe that people who disagree with them on major issues are stupid, meaning at the very least ignorant and ininformed [sic], or are viewing facts from a misgiven or dishonest perspective. I believe that in this sense, you certainly, and probably your readers, believe that I’m “stupid”, you are just being a hypocrite who is afraid to say so.
Yes, I think you are ignorant and uninformed. Nothing you have said so far changes my opinion of your words. However, as I stated above, I do not think people are “stupid” in the sense you are using the word.
All you are telling me in this paragraph is how you perceive people who hold different beliefs from yours. It seems, then, you are the one who needs to change his behavior, not I.
What I sent you was quite literally the thoughts that crossed my mind as I read your blog. I figured based on what you write that you enjoy getting inside the mind of an evangelical.
I grew up in the Christian church and pastored Evangelical churches for 25 years. I daily monitor over 100 Evangelical blogs and websites. Over the last fourteen years I have received thousands and thousands of emails, social media messages, and blog comments from Evangelicals; from IFB adherents; from countless Noah Zielkes. I know exactly what is (and isn’t) in the minds of Evangelicals. You knew this, ignored my contact form requests, and emailed me anyway — not to interact with me, but to tell me what you think about me.
I’ve read bits and pieces of Bart Ehrman’s books, and I reject all of his conclusions because I firstly reject his premises and general approach. He portrays well-known and oft-responded-to facts about the Biblical text as startling revelations that shake the foundation of Christianity!. He portrays his and his colleagues’ hare-brained theories as established, unquestionable fact. He’s just the latest hype-job in a long line of critics who have their roots in German higher criticism from the 19th century.
So, you haven’t actually read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books, yet you feel qualified to critique his writing and dismiss it out of hand? You do know reading blog posts, book reviews, and forum posts is not the same as actually reading his books, right? Do your homework, Noah, and then we will talk.
I noticed you commented on a website devoted to Peter Ruckman and King James-onlyism. Do you really believe the King James Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God? Do you really believe the KJV is without error? Surely you know such a belief cannot be rationally sustained; that such a belief collapses if I can show one “error” in the text? Inerrancy, in general, is a house of cards built upon a rotting foundation. (I once was KJV-only, so I am quite knowledgeable about the belief, along with its various strains, including Ruckmanism.) I would be more than happy to interact with you on this issue.
A Sinner Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Earlier today, I received an email from an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) zealot named Noah Zielke. Zielke ignored my requests on the Contact Page and emailed me anyway. What follows is my response to him. Best I can tell, Zielke is a computer science major at the University of Alabama. I do give him credit for reading some of my autobiographical material, along with a few posts about the IFB church movement.
My response is indented and italicized.
A smattering of thoughts I had while reading your blog:
I believe that you probably did believe and are therefore my brother in Christ,
Well, I am sure glad you stopped by my blog to let me know that I was and still am a Christian. You need to get together with your fellow believers and hold a meeting to decide whether I am really a Christian. You see, Christians can’t agree on this matter. One group says I once was saved and now I am lost. Another group says that I never was saved. And yet another group, the one you are part of, says that I am still a Christian. I consider your position the most absurd of them of all. While morally and ethically my life is likely as good as or better than yours, there’s nothing in my life that remotely suggests that I am in any way, shape, or form a Christian. I reject the central claims of Christianity, believing that Jesus was human, not divine; that he lived and died, end of story. I reject the claim that the Bible is in any way an authoritative, supernatural text. I would be glad to interact with you on the nature and history of the Bible. I assume you believe the Bible is inspired, inerrant, and infallible — claims which cannot be rationally sustained. (If you have not read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the text of the Bible, I encourage you to do so. I will even buy one of Ehrman’s books for you to read and have it shipped to you free of charge.)
You and I are most certainly not “brothers.” I have one brother and two half-brothers. Last I knew, you weren’t on my genealogy tree. Though . . . my biological father did get around a bit, so we could be related. Please submit your DNA to ancestry.com and let me know if we are a match.
though I’m surprised God hasn’t killed you yet (Hebrews 12:6).
God hasn’t killed me for one reason and one reason alone: he doesn’t exist. The fact that I can write the things I do without your God saying anything suggests that she either agrees with me, is on vacation, taking a shit (1 Kings 18 — I can do Bible proof texts too), or is dead. Since, according to you, Jesus is God, and we know he is very much dead, lying buried somewhere on the Judean hillside, I am going with God is dead.
I have no doubt that I will one day die, likely sooner than later. My death certificate will not say: cause of death — God. I am sure it will likely say: cause of death — gastroparesis or heart attack or diabetes or blow to head with cast iron skillet wielded by my wife. Granted, whenever I die, IFB zealots will claim that God killed me, judging me for my sins and unbelief. Too bad I won’t be around to read what they have to say. By then I will have been reduced to ashes and spread along the eastern shore of Lake Michigan. I shall end up in the same place as you will, Noah. There is no Heaven, no Hell, no afterlife. Just the here and now, as Solomon so wisely and eloquently stated.
Let me give you a piece of advice that can be found on my About Page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Maybe you’re God’s punishment on stupid people.
It’s evident your momma didn’t raise you right, that you lack basic decency and respect for other people. This is a common trait among IFB Christians. What kind of person goes around calling people he disagrees with “stupid”?
This blog is read by lots of people, many of whom have college educations. Doctors, lawyers, dentists, psychologists, managers, preachers, evangelists, missionaries, teachers, engineers, professors, along with all sorts of “smart” people, regardless of their education level. That said, my focus has never been on the intellectual acumen of the readers of this blog. When people comment on this blog, I don’t check their education levels first. “Smart” and “stupid” are subjective terms, most often used in a pejorative sense.
Personally, I prefer that people just show me how “smart” or “stupid’ they are, you know, like you did in your email to me.
You should understand (and I know you probably do) that the reason the IFB hates you is because they believe that you are contributing to people burning in Hell forever. How, logically, is someone supposed to treat such an one.
No, IFB Christians “hate” me because it is in their DNA to do so. They have been indoctrinated and conditioned to “hate” anyone who thinks, believes, or lives differently from them. (Please see IFB “Love”.)
Please stop using the words “logic” and “logically.” It’s evident you don’t know what these words mean. Is it “logical” to believe virgins have babies, ghosts impregnate women, humans walk on water, turn water into wine, or teleport (sorry Star Trek isn’t real in case you didn’t know), or come back to life after they have been dead for three days? Is it “logical” to believe that an ancient religious text is some sort of supernatural book written by a supernatural God whom no one has ever seen or talked to; that humans are expected to obey and practice every word found in its pages? (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
Heaven and Hell, along with sin, judgment, and salvation, are religious constructs used by sects, churches, and clerics to keep asses in the seats and money in the plates. Preachers use fear and guilt to coerce people into getting saved. “Saved” from what, exactly? Humans aren’t sinful, broken, or depraved. Such thinking is a 2,000 year long con used to feed the voracious power and control appetites of Christian sects and churches.
There’s a better way, Noah. Seek and ye shall find . . .
How did Jesus say Christians are to treat their enemies? (Sermon on the Mount.) Can you not see that you have been taught a warped understanding of “love”? Having been raised in the IFB church movement and pastoring IFB churches for years, I know people are taught a warped, perverse sense of “love.” It’s a love that hates. If the goal is to win me back to Jesus, what is the best way to do so? Surely, hurling hateful invectives my way will only drive me farther away from Jesus. Whatever happened, Noah, to following in the steps of Jesus? You know, WWJD?
I have been attacked, savaged, and abused by countless Evangelical Christians over the years. IFB Christians are the worst, by far. Nasty, arrogant, self-righteous, showing little to no love for their fellow man. I have concluded that getting “saved” makes no appreciable difference in people’s lives; that Christian Fundamentalism breeds people who have little evidence of the fruit of the Spirit in their lives: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith (Galatians 5).
Sure, I have met a handful of loving, kind, thoughtful Christians. However, they are the exceptions to the rule. After fourteen years and thousands and thousands of emails, social media messages, and blog comments from the followers of Jesus, I can safely conclude that, for the most part, Christianity is bankrupt, that it doesn’t deliver what it promises.
Abiogenesis is anti-science, anti-common sense, and illogical.
I have not written one post on abiogenesis — not one. I am not a scientist, neither are you — reading Ken Ham’s blog doesn’t make you a scientist. I do have readers, however, who have science training. If they are so inclined, perhaps one or more of them will respond to your assertions.
Jesus was either God, or a lunatic. You seem to now think he was just a good man and the bad bits are embellishments? If even 10% of what he said was true, and he wasn’t God, then he was a quack and liar (ex – Mark 14:7 – spend the money on me, not the poor).
Sigh, CS Lewis. You seem to leave out the position that Jesus could have been a well-intentioned apocalyptic preacher; a “mere human” who ran afoul of the Roman government and got himself killed. We have no idea about who or what Jesus actually was. Jesus wrote no books of the Bible, left behind no writings, and the words attributed to him were written down by unknown authors 30-90 years after his death. If you have actual evidence that anything attributed to Jesus in the Bible actually happened or was said, I would love to see it. I’m confident that no evidence will be forthcoming. Once again, I encourage you to read several of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books. His books will disabuse you of your Fundamentalist beliefs about the Bible.
Believing that life can arise from purely naturalistic processes isn’t just intellectually dishonest, it’s insane, absurd, stupidity.I realize 3 & 5 are basically the same.
Please see my response to your third statement. Why did you feel the need to repeat this statement twice?
Are you a creationist? Do you believe Genesis 1-3 is literal history; that the universe was created in six 24 hour days; that the universe is 6,024 years old; that Adam and Eve were the first humans; that dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time as humans? I assume the answer to these questions is yes. If so, I will refrain from saying such beliefs are intellectually dishonest, insane, absurd, and stupid. I wouldn’t want to offend you by saying you are intellectually dishonest, insane, absurd, and stupid. My momma taught me not to call people names, but some of the readers of this blog might say creationism (young, old, or theistic) is intellectually dishonest, insane, absurd, and stupid. With fingers crossed behind my back, I apologize for their rudeness . . . though their conclusions are based on scientific observation.
I enourage you to get a sound science education. Then you will be in a position to intellegently talk about these things. It’s important, Noah, to know what we don’t know.
From, Noah
From Bruce, a sinner saved by reason.
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Let me conclude this post with one further observation about the “abortion is murder” position. If it is God who opens and closes the womb, and Jesus holds in his hand the keys to life and death, doesn’t this make the Christian God the greatest abortionist and murderer since Adam and Eve got off the Ark? Far more inseminated eggs/fetuses are miscarried than are aborted. Who is culpable for these miscarriages? Damn, theology is a bitch, isn’t it? God alone is to blame for miscarriages, thus he is the greatest abortionist of all time. And if this is true, shouldn’t God be arrested, charged with murder, and executed? Most Evangelical anti-abortionists are pro-death penalty. These immoral hypocrites believe serial killers, mass murderers, and abortion doctors should be executed. Fine, but shouldn’t God face the same punishment? Or are his “murders” somehow different from those committed by mere mortals? Perhaps it is time for God to be strapped to a gurney and given a lethal injection. If abortion is murder, how can Evangelicals arrive at any other conclusion but this one?
Note the line “If it is God who opens and closes the womb, and Jesus holds in his hand the keys to life and death, doesn’t this make the Christian God the greatest abortionist and murderer since Adam and Eve got off the Ark?” Regular readers of this blog know that I am a snarky curmudgeon who loves making humorous, and at times bawdy, statements — especially when drawing attention to outlandish Evangelical beliefs and practices. My writing reflects my personality, and that includes my snarkiness. Most readers enjoy my humor and those who don’t quickly exit stage right, never to be heard from again. The same goes for my occasional use of curse words. It seems words such as shit, fuck, or asshole are morally offensive, but covering up sexual abuse scandals and lying to children about an allegedly virgin-born, miracle-working, crucified, resurrected from the dead, missing for 2,000 years God-Man named Hay-Zeus is not. Saying hell, goddammit, or dick measuring contest (“Dr.” David Tee’s latest objection to my writing, jealous that my metaphorical dick is bigger than his) is so offensive that it warrants stoning, but a book that advocates, encourages, or commands all sorts of morally offensive behaviors is not.
Today, I received a comment on the aforementioned Abby Johnson post from Jared Brown. Brown read all of one post on this site before launching into a deep-throated attack on my character, accusing me of not being a “true” pastor, of not knowing the Bible, having t-r-e-m-e-n-d-o-u-s-l-y bad theology, and having a complete lack of basic Biblical literacy, even less than a three-year-old:
People please consider this. In the author’s bio below the story they say he was a pastor for 25 years. He casts stones at God calling him a murderer and questions, rhetorically, “isn’t theology a B?” All while not only having tremendously bad theology, but also a complete lack of basic Biblical literacy at all. Not only do you not have to be a pastor for 25 years, but I know three year olds who know better than to say that it was Adam and Eve who got off of the ark. Please consider the source. A man who claims to have been a pastor for 25 years who doesn’t know one of the most basic Bible stories that you can read within 20 minutes of opening the Bible. Not only would no Christian get that story wrong-certainly no true pastor would- I have never met a non Christian, secular person who did not know about Noah’s ark.
Of course, regular readers, along with anyone with common sense and critical thinking skills know that me saying ” since Adam and Eve got off the Ark ” is just the Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser being snarky (and hopefully funny). I have made countless similar statements over the years. Jared Brown is the first person to go all literal on me, unable to distinguish between me being a smart ass and me making a factual error. Instead of responding to the content of my article, Brown chose to attack me personally. Best I can tell, Brown is a young man from Texas. While I don’t know for certain what flavor of ice cream he eats, I suspect he is likely an Evangelical (or a conservative Catholic). I hope Brown will reflect on his comment, repent, and apologize. By all means, respond to my writing. Challenge my assumptions, interpretations, or conclusions. I encourage such interactions. However, suggesting that I wasn’t a “real” pastor or that I don’t know anything about the Bible is nothing more than an attempt to smear my character and dismiss out of hand what I have to say. Instead of interacting with the “message,” Brown went after the “messenger.” Instead of asking whether what I said is true, Brown spent his time attacking my choice of underwear.
Just in case Brown missed my biography: I spent fifty years in the Christian church. I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years, pastoring churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I attended an Evangelical college and married a Baptist pastor’s daughter. We homeschooled our six children, except for the five years we operated a private Christian school in Southeast Ohio. Over the course of the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry, I devoted thousands and thousands of hours to reading and studying the Bible, including reading countless theological tomes and listening to hundreds of sermons on cassette tape. All told, I preached over 4,000 sermons. I think readers can safely assume that I know the Bible inside and out, that I know where Adam and Eve and Noah and the Flood fit in the chronology of the Bible. If, after reading this post, Brown still thinks I am a “fake” pastor or have the Bible knowledge of a three-year-old (who can’t read and only knows what he is told), I propose we have a
I am confident that I will win this contest. I don’t know everything about the Bible, but I am satisfied that I have a sound working knowledge of the Biblical text, especially from an Evangelical perspective.
Well, enough. I have another post I need to work on– Noah receiving the Ten Commandments from Jesus on Mount Everest. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
