Two years ago, an Evangelical man from California named Daniel Kluver began his stalker-like behavior by emailing me and commenting on this site. He would later contact my wife and children on Facebook. A year later, Kluver was permanently banned from commenting and blocked (and reported) on social media.
During this two-year period, I wrote about or responded to Kluver eight times:
It has been a while since Kluver contacted me. Evidently, he was perusing an atheist porn site, saw my sexy Santa photo, and fearing the arousal of his latent gay desires, decided to fire off an email to me instead (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
You never were a Christian or you would still be one.
Welp, I was a Christian, so according to Kluver’s present theology, I must still be one. He at one time believed I was still a Christian, but he no longer does so.
According to Kluver’s illogical logic, once you are __________, you are always ___________, no matter what you say or do. Thus, I am either still a Christian (which he rejects) or I never was one.
Kluver doesn’t apply his illogical logic to any other aspect of life. If a person gets married and then divorced, is he still married? Of course not. I could use countless things to illustrate this very point. Life if filled with us changing our minds about choices we have previously made. As far as Christianity is concerned, I came to believe that I had believed a lie; that my parents, pastors, and professors had sold me a false bill of goods. Further, extensive study and investigation of the central claims of Christianity led me to conclude that I had spent much of my life worshipping and serving a God that did not exist.
What should I have done? Keep believing? Faith it until I make it? Better to believe a lie just in case I’m wrong? I did what most thoughtful people do: I examined the evidence at hand and changed my mind accordingly. If Kluver wants to reach me for Jesus — and he doesn’t — he needs to provide me evidence that the claims of Christianity are true. Further, he needs to model behavior that remotely suggests he is a follower of Jesus. So far, all I see is a hateful troll whose goal is to harass me.
Stop lying about this and tell the truth that you probably have nephilim blood running in your life.
For readers not familiar with Kluver’s claims I have Nephilim blood, Genesis 6:1-4 says:
When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim [giants] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
The Nephilim are mysterious beings or people in the Hebrew Bible who are described as being large and strong. The Hebrew word Nephilim directly translates to “the fallen ones”. Their origins are disputed. Some view them as offspring of fallen angels and humans. Others view them as offspring of the descendants of Seth and Cain.
The main reference to them is in Genesis 6:1–4, but the passage is ambiguous and the identity of the Nephilim is disputed. According to the Book of Numbers 13:33, ten of the Twelve Spies report the existence of Nephilim in Canaan, prior to its conquest by the Israelites.
A similar or identical biblical Hebrew term, read as “Nephilim” by some scholars, or as the word “fallen” by others, appears in the Book of Ezekiel 32:27 and is also mentioned in the deuterocanonical books Judith 16:6, Sirach 16:7, Baruch 3:26–28, and Wisdom 14:6.
According to Kluver, I am the offspring of a human mother and a fallen angel. He, of course, has no evidence for his claim. He’s just making shit up. I will, however, gladly submit to blood and DNA tests to prove Kluver’s claim. Where does one go for a Nephilim test? 🙂 I’ll be sure to ask my doctor at my next visit.
I have never heard of a saved devil so I understand that you can’t help being a liar.
In classic Revival Fires, Derrick Thomas Thiessen, and Victor Justice fashion, Kluver accuses me of being a liar. Once again, he provides no evidence for his claim. Among outspoken former Evangelicals, I am known for being open and honest about not only my past life, but the present. While I have a few secrets which I shall never divulge, I am generally an open book. Have a question? Ask. It seems, then, that Kluver is lying about me being a liar. Why do so many Evangelicals have such a hard time telling the truth or being honest interlocutors? I am more than happy to have discussions with Evangelicals provided they are thoughtful and honest.
So do you want all your garbage to die when you die or do you still want to bring embarrassment to your self?
Garbage? Unable to accept my story at face value, Kluver has resorted to all sorts of derogatory name-calling — a common Evangelical trait. Today, I am “garbage.” What does Kluver hope to accomplish by this approach? Shitting on unbelievers is not an effective way to reach them for Jesus.
After writing this post, I found a comment that Kluver left in 2019:
Baptist’s suck that’s all I want to say about them.
Okay?
In 2021, Michael Mock had this to say about Kluver:
Kluver seems to have mistaken being full of himself for being full of the holy spirit. Probably thinks of himself as a “straight shooter” who’s just “telling it like it is,” which is one of the top five excuses I’ve heard assholes give for their behavior over the years. But hey, if he has the power — excuse me, gift — to get his prayers answered by the Almighty, then this should be easy for him. All he has to do is get the Lord to address us directly. Have Jesus stop by for a beer. Easy!
Amen.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Recently my girlfriend and I watched an episode of “48 Hours” (transcript) about a California bus kidnapping in July 1976. The crime was as heinous as it was short-sighted. It involved three young men making a plan to abduct a bus full of kids and their driver. The men then put the abductees in a vehicle that had been previously buried underground. The children were able to dig themselves out and facilitate their own rescue after twenty-eight hours. Suffice it to say the trauma of such an abduction would leave emotional scars. Many of the children turned to drugs and alcohol in an attempt to deal with the trauma. Interestingly (and the reason for the article) one of the children (Larry Park, after abusing drugs in his 20s and 30s) turned to religion. He eventually became a pastor and met with the men who had done the kidnapping. In this he found relief.
So the question for me (and now for you) is this: if religion can give someone such deliverance, could it be that religion (whether true or not) could be a net positive? If fostering a delusion has a benefit, does it matter that the basis of the delusion is a lie? If placebos make you feel better, why not take them? I’d be curious how others feel about this, because considering the circumstances, it seems maybe he picked the lesser of two evils . . . (and maybe not evil at all?)
What say ye?
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
More people have left the church in the last twenty-five years than all the new people who became Christians from the First Great Awakening, Second Great Awakening, and Billy Graham crusades combined.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Earler this year, Garrett Biggerstaff, pastor of Pleasant Grove Missionary Baptist Church in Fairfield, Illinois, was accused of sexually grooming a child. Pleasant Grove is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. After his arrest, Biggerstaff resigned from the church. Biggerstaff was also an employee of Spring Garden Consolidated Community School District in Ina, Illinois.
A former pastor and Illinois school district employee has been arrested and charged with two counts of sexually grooming a child, following a months-long investigation.
The Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office posted an update to Facebook announcing the arrest of 28-year-old Garrett S. Biggerstaff of Mcleansboro.
According to authorities, the investigation into Biggerstaff began last September when “the Benton Police Department received information from a juvenile claiming to be the target of some form of sexual exploitation.”
“Officers handling the complaint in Benton contacted Detectives from the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office and a coordinated investigation [began],” stated the sheriff’s office.
“Evidence was collected and examined by the Sheriff’s Office member of the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force. From this work, a second juvenile victim was identified.”
After Biggerstaff was arrested Thursday, he was transported to the Jefferson County Jail and booked on felony charges. His bond was set at $150,000.
Biggerstaff was a pastor at Pleasant Grove Missionary Baptist Church in Fairfield, but was “suspended immediately,” reported Baptist Press about the church which is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. Upon being arrested, he offered his resignation, which church leadership accepted on Sunday.
Additionally, Biggerstaff had also been employed at the Spring Garden Consolidated Community School District in Ina, Illinois, resigning last November as the investigation continued.
Today, Biggerstaff pleaded guilty to one count of child grooming.
A 28-year-old former pastor and athletic director pleaded guilty Monday in Jefferson County Court to one of two felony charges of child grooming.
Garrett Biggerstaff, who was a pastor at the time for Pleasant Grove Missionary Baptist Church in Fairfield, was arrested in January in two separate cases accusing him of child grooming. The church terminated Biggerstaff shortly after his arrest. He was also serving as Athletic Director at Spring Garden Consolidated Community School District at the time but resigned after the information became public.
Investigations into the two cases began in September 2022 when Benton Police received information from a juvenile claiming to be the target of sexual exploitation.
Officers handling the complaint in Benton contacted the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office and started a coordinated investigation that ultimately resulted in a search of Biggerstaff’s homes.
Investigators say a collection of evidence revealed a second juvenile victim and the completed investigation was turned over to the Jefferson County State’s Attorney’s Office.
Warrants were then issued on January 4, 2023, for Biggerstaff’s arrest and he was taken into custody the following day.
Judge Jerry Crisel denied a defense motion last week to again vacate a jury trial scheduled for next week on both cases, with a final pretrial hearing scheduled for September 11.
During a final pretrial Monday, Biggerstaff entered into a plea agreement with the state and filed an open plea of guilty in one case in exchange for the other case being dismissed. An open plea of guilty doesn’t come with a sentencing agreement.
He’s scheduled to be sentenced on October 19.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
In his latest piece for the New York Times, he [David French] describes the “Rage and Joy of Donald Trump’s MAGA America.” It’s a neat argument, backed by his personal observations while immersed in the South, that MAGA supporters are not just angry about the state of the world and the leftist/globalist/whatevers they believe are wrongly in charge. They are actually pretty happy in the MAGA communities they’ve inhabited in the traveling circus following Trump around the country and in their local communities. The importance of that observation is this: they will need a replacement for that communal joy to encourage them to sever their connection to MAGA, not just steps that would defuse their anger.
That’s all fine with me in the sense that it’s worth studying more systematically to see if there’s something to it.
What I’m concerned with is his extension to religion and especially evangelicalism. The parallel he draws is this: “Evangelicals are a particularly illustrative case. About half of self-identified evangelicals now attend church monthly or less often. They have religious zeal, but they lack religious community. So they find their band of brothers and sisters in the Trump movement.” I’ve heard this sort of argument A LOT in the Trump years, trying to make the argument that church-involved people are the good, well-behaved ones who wouldn’t support Trump, while the non-attenders who still identify as religious/evangelical/whatever are the ones doing the objectionable thing in the news at the moment. The implication is that if those MAGA types could just get back to church (or in some other community), then the MAGA problem would be solved.
I’ve addressed this severaltimes before in severaldifferentways and I’m surely missing some posts, but let me say it again: church attendance is linked to Trump support.
….
What I think French and many others are missing is that church involvement is not the crucial dividing line here, but instead the kind of religious beliefs that the people hold are. This is a particular blindspot among some scholars of religion who think of American society as divided between church attenders versus those who are not. Of course there’s some of that, but if you really want to understand who is MAGA and who isn’t, you need to be thinking about apocalypticism. The people fixated on dividing the world into the forces of good and evil (demonic, embodied evil), see Christians facing rampant persecution, and foresee (yep, prophecybelief is a big part of this) a final battle ahead are on a different plane of existence from other people. And they certainly do feel warmly toward Donald Trump, anointed to be their savior.
….
David French laid out a thoughtful approach to thinking about how to deradicalize MAGA folks, but he’s wrong in his assumptions about the role of religion here. Among some, church involvement as it shows through apocalyptic beliefs is an accelerant of MAGA, not a replacement for it. The dividing line is clear. Those with religious beliefs that draw sharp lines between good and evil and feature elites who are making the case that Trump is the anointed ruler of America (and whose indictments are demonic) are the most dangerous and powerful support structures of the MAGA movement. We need to stop thinking that religion is the antidote – particular forms of it, like the New Apostolic Reformation, may be the cause of the problem.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Chrystal Frost, a teacher at Crenshaw Christian Academy in Luverne, Alabama, stands accused of having sex with two minor students.
An Alabama math teacher at a private Christian school is accused of having sex with two teenage boys who had both been her students, according to an arrest warrant obtained by Fox News Digital.
Chrystal Frost, 35, a married mother of three, resigned last month from Crenshaw Christian Academy, known as Home of the Cougars for its football team, after she was allegedly caught exchanging explicit photos with a student on Snapchat.
“Frost sent an obscene photo and asked that the student send a photo from the abs down,” according to a police report.
The school received an anonymous tip that a 15-year-old student, identified as GT, had a “nude breast photo of the math teacher on his phone,” which he had shared with some classmates.
An administrator confronted Frost, who allegedly “admitted to a different photo she sent to the cheerleaders where she pulled her Nike shorts up high allowing her butt cheeks to show, took the picture and sent it as a joke.”
Frost resigned Aug. 24, and the next day, the school reported the incident to the Luverne Police Department, which launched an investigation.
A student told police that GT had shown him the breast photo and then dropped a bombshell. He said GT and the teacher had been intimate.
In an Aug. 29 interview, GT admitted that his teacher sent him the lewd photo and then offered him sex. They met on a piece of land owned by his family in Pike County at least four times for the sick trysts.
On another occasion, when he went to feed the dogs as part of his chores, she met him and “performed oral sex on him” in a car. The student said he put an end to the disturbing relationship in early summer.
Police tracked down a second teenager, a 16-year-old student identified as AP, who was Frost’s student the prior school year. Frost allegedly used the same tactics to prey on him.
After he started homeschooling, Frost allegedly sent him a photo of her breasts before asking if he knew a place to have sex, the police report said.
The two met on a farm only once, where they allegedly had oral sex and intercourse. “The teacher made no conversations with him from arrival to ending of the sexual contact,” the report said. After the encounter, Frost allegedly sent two more lascivious photos and then blocked him from Snapchat.
In a police interview, Frost allegedly confessed to the depraved conduct and was arrested.
She is charged with traveling to meet a child for an unlawful sex act, electronic solicitation of a child, two counts of a school employee engaging in a sex act, and two counts of a school employee distributing obscene material to a student.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, I received the following email from a Christian woman named Alicia. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original. My response follows. Alicia means well, so I do want to extend grace to her in my response.
Hi Bruce,
I just love you. I bet you were an awesome pastor. (And your wife looks absolutely lovely.) I am a believer and I love Tim Mill’s site and your site.
I am not sure what Alicia means by saying “I just love you.” I tend to bristle when Christians tell me that they love me, knowing how “love” is used to manipulate people or as an evangelism tool. Alicia doesn’t know me, so she is not in a position to “love” me. Maybe she used the word in a colloquial sense.
I will leave it to former parishioners to say whether I was an awesome pastor. I humbly tried my best to minister to other people. Whether that qualifies as “awesome” is for others to decide. I do know that there are former parishioners who don’t think I am “awesome.” If these people saw me in a crosswalk, they would probably speed up and try to run me over. ‘Tis the nature of the ministry. You can’t be all things to all people.
Several months ago, I was interviewed by Tim Mills. Over 82,000 people have viewed the interview.
I find it so interesting to see how real believer’s minds change. I kinda get the textual and philisophical reasons why folks deconvert. But what I don’t get is when you guys say that there is no such thing as sin. Well, I do get it. It’s because you guys never wallowed in it yourselves. You actually walked the walk so your consciences are clear and your souls aren’t dinged up from it. You just feel like you’ve been bamboozled by religion.
Sin is a religious construct used by clerics to induce guilt and fear. Properly abused by preaching and teaching on “sin,” congregants are then offered a “solution” for their sin — Jesus. Of course, Jesus is only found in churches that preach Biblical truth — or so preachers say, anyway. Offered forgiveness, once accepted, church members are expected to be faithful attendees and tithers. Preaching up sin is a way for preachers to maintain their hold on congregants, and, most of all, keep the money flowing.
As a humanist, I believe in good and bad behavior — not sin. Many normal, healthy human behaviors are considered “sins” by Christians. People go through life feeling fearful and guilty over just being human. This is particularly true when it comes to sexual behavior.
Trust me when I say that I have done a lot of “sinning” in my lifetime. My religion taught me that I daily sinned in thought, word, and deed, committing sins, according to my pastors, of commission and omission. This thinking led to a lot of fear and guilt. I was worried that the judgment of God was nigh, and that if I didn’t stop sinning God might kill me.
Today, I live a much simpler life. No more fear or guilt, no worries about chastisement or judgment. My goal on any given day is to be a good man, living according to the humanist ideal. (Humanist Manifesto) And when I fail, I do my best to apologize and make restitution.
Well,,Lemme tell you, as a prodigal. THERE IS SIN. I walked away from God and walked in sin and it traumatized me. (Don’t let a Dr. prescribe an antidepressant. They will fry your brain worse than a street drug.) Anyhow,… When I came back to God and read the Bible again…talk about feeling Bamboozled. What a B-Slap! Over and over that Book warns us not to sin so we don’t hurt ourselves and others.
I can’t speak to Alicia’s experiences, but I don’t view myself as a prodigal. I am a truth-seeker. Fifteen years ago, my studies and experiences showed me that the central claims of Christianity are false. Prodigals are people who return to that which they left behind. How could I possibly do so? If Christianity is untrue, what is there for me to go back to? That ship has sailed.
You”re in therapy cuz you were sinned against so horribly as a child. Your precious mother was sinned against and so traumatized. ( Lord only knows what you saw and dealt with as a Pastor.) And as i said…my own sins traumatized me.
I am in therapy for a lot of reasons — childhood trauma being one of them. However, it would be wrong to pin my deconversion on trauma alone. I’m not an atheist because my step-grandmother sexually molested me, nor am I an atheist because of countless other childhood traumas. Sure, these events shaped me psychologically and affected how I engage the world I live in, but my deconversion rests primarily on intellectual reasons, not emotional ones.
I hope you don’t regret too much your time as a pastor. I”m sure you hedged a lot of folks from pain.\
The only thing I regret is spending so much of my life believing a lie. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed being a pastor. There are certain aspects of the ministry I don’t miss, but loving and caring for people? Preaching and teaching? Ministering to the least of these? I would be less than honest if I didn’t admit that I miss these things. Maybe I need to start an atheist church. 🙂
Forgive me if I seem like I”m talking church talk. I really am approaching it from a psychological standpoint.
The problem with approaching my story from a “psychological standpoint” is that Alicia is not qualified to do so, and neither are countless other Christians who take this approach with me.
I know you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, but you are not a medical professional, so please do not send me unsolicited medical or psychological advice. I am not interested — ever.
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
I make it clear that I am not interested in receiving medical or psychological advice — ever. I see a team of doctors on a regular basis. I see a psychologist weekly. I am well-cared for. That’s why I ask people to NOT send me medical or psychological advice. How hard can it be for people to respect my wishes?
Anyhow, please don’t feel the need to respond. I know you are a busy dude. And this topic is treading borderline for you.
Not treading, past the line. I know you mean well, so I am giving you a pass this round. In the future, when someone you don’t know says “These are my boundaries,” believe them.
I wanna say God Bless You, but I don’t want to offend.
So I”ll be more invasive and just say HUGE HUGS to you and your wife.
There is no God, so I am not concerned about his “blessing” in the least. I have much to be thankful and grateful for, but God plays no part in my life. I give credit to whom credit is due, and God ain’t done squat for me. How can he? He is a mythical being.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, an Evangelical man named Charles Pentland, Jr. sent me the following email:
Sad, you turned from the faith. You’re not the only one. It won’t be long & you will believe it.
I really don’t have much to say to Charles. For the life of me, I don’t understand why Evangelicals think threatening strangers on the Internet with Hell is an effective evangelization technique. Does anyone thusly threatened immediately fall on their knees, repent, and ask Jesus to save them? Of course not. Thus, I am left to conclude that such threats are all about people such as Charles, and not the people they threaten. They have a pathological need to be right, and what better way to show their rightness than by threatening unbelievers — especially atheists — with hellfire and damnation? Evangelicals feel vindicated, thinking, “I sure told that atheist.” Instead, all they do is remind me of why I left Christianity, and why the single best decision I made next to marrying Polly was the day I said to the world “I no longer believe.”
Charles feels “sad” over my loss of faith. Does he really? I doubt it. People change their minds about things all the time. People marry and later divorce. Jesus and I were married for many years — happily so. Yet, there came a day when I realized my marriage to Jesus was over. What did I do? I filed for divorce, and fifteen years later, I am still a happy divorcee. While I lost lifetime social connections when I deconverted, I have developed new relationships with people who accept me as I am, and not for what I believe. My life is better in every way — post-Jesus. Of course, Charles likely doesn’t believe me, thinking that no one can have a good life, a satisfying life, one filled with purpose and meaning, without J-e-s-u-s. All I know to do is to keep living my “sad” life all the way to the grave. Isn’t that all any of us can do?
Let me leave Charles with the advice I give to readers on my About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, I received several emails from an Evangelical women named Annelie. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original.
Annelie:
Hello there.. I just read your story Blog. I have one question only… And it’s one word…. WHY. ?
Did you walk away from God. Help me understand you.
Thank you for your kindness.
Carolyn:
Annelie,
It’s funny that you should use the word WHY. There is a whole series of posts under the word WHY on Bruce’s home page. Here’s the link: https://brucegerencser.net/why/. Read those posts, then come back and ask questions if you wish more information. The short of it is that Bruce is a voracious reader, and the more he read, the more he realized that the bible was neither inerrant nor infallible. Once he discovered this, he realized that fundamentalist Christianity no longer made sense.
Happy reading,
Carolyn Patrick, editor for Bruce Gerencser
Bruce:
Annelie,
Thank you for taking the time to contact me. Your question is one that has been asked countless times. I actually have a page that lists articles I have written that hopefully answer the “Why?” question. I believe my editor sent you a link to this page: https://brucegerencser.net/why/
If you have any further questions, please let me know, and I will do my best to answer them.
Annelie:
Bruce
I think you answered your own question…..
When you said that you once believed that Christianity was true…
And I hate to tell you that it STILL is… whether you choose to believe it or not.
Eternity is a L-o-n-g Time without GOD.
My heart breaks for you.
Annelie:
Hello again…
Just to let you know that I will not give up on you !
I will not stop praying for YOU. !
A song that come to mind for you is…
“ Set my spirit free , that I may worship Thee,
Set my spirit free, that I may praise Thy Name,
Let all bondage go, and let deliverance flow,
Set my spirit free, to worship Thee.”
Some day when I get to heaven,
I want to see ….. BRUCE : the mighty man of God there,
Singing with all his might…
“ Wonderful grace of Jesus,
Greater than all my sin,
How can my tongue describe it ?
Where can my praise begin ?
Taking away my burden,
Setting my spirit free,
Oh the wonderful grace of Jesus,
Reaches me. !!! “
It is evident from Annelie’s emails that she spent very little time reading my autobiographical material, especially the articles found on the WHY? page. I have come to expect such behavior from Evangelicals. Rare is the Evangelical who actually tries to understand my story before emailing me. (Please see Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait.)
Further, Annelie disregarded what is stated on the CONTACT page:
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
It seems to me that when you comment on a blog or email its owner, the very least you can do is respect their wishes. Sadly, Evangelicals are not a respectful lot. Putting a word in for Jesus, evangelizing the lost, or exposing heresy is more important to them than being decent, respectful human beings.
Annelie asked a question, one that was answered by both Carolyn and myself. Her response should have been, “Thank you. I will read the posts you mentioned, and if I have further questions I will let you know.” Instead, she went into preaching mode.
Annelie seems to think that assertions or claims are the same as “truth.” Saying Christianity is true whether I believe it or not is a claim, not a fact. I provided ample evidence for my claim that Christianity is not true, yet Annalie chose not to read those posts. Instead, as many Evangelicals do, Annalie stomped her feet and loudly proclaimed CHRISTIANITY IS TRUE! She provides no evidence for this claim. She expects me and other unbelievers to just believe her. Christianity, in her mind, is true, because she believes it is. End of discussion. Such thinking might work at countless Evangelical churches, but the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world such as myself require more than bald assertions and faith claims. If Annelie wants to discuss whether the central claims of Christianity are true — I’m game.
As Evangelicals often do, Annelie couldn’t help but threaten me with Hell. Oh, she didn’t come right out and use the word Hell, but it is implied when she said “Eternity is a L-o-n-g Time without GOD.” For Evangelicals, eternity is comprised of Heaven (the eternal kingdom of God) and Hell (Lake of Fire). Everyone goes to one of these places after they die. I have no doubt Annelie thinks I am headed for Hell.
What did Annelie hope to accomplish by emailing me? Surely she knows I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years; that I have an Evangelical Bible college education; that I pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years; and that I have spent the past sixteen years writing about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. What did Annelie hope to achieve by quoting the lyrics to the song “Wonderful Grace of Jesus?” I know all I need to know about Christianity. With my mind wide open, I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting. Did Annelie really think that by quoting Christian song lyrics I would suddenly fall on my knees, repent, and get saved?
In her first email, Annelie said, “Help me understand you,” yet subsequent emails suggest she is more interested in preaching at me than understanding me. Understanding me requires reading my autobiographical material. I make it easy for Evangelicals to “understand” me, but many of them are so damn lazy that they can’t be bothered to do their homework.
Annelie says she’s not going to give up on me. What, exactly, does that even mean? Is she going to kidnap me and beat Jesus into me? I am not low-hanging fruit, someone who can be easily evangelized. Thousands of Evangelicals have tried to evangelize me, without success. Does Annelie believe, with song lyrics in hand, that she is going to accomplish what thousands before her have been unable to do? “With God all things are possible,” Annelie might say. Yelp, everyone who has tried to “save” me allegedly had God on their side too. Yet, I remain an outspoken, unrepentant atheist. It seems, at least to me, that not only are Evangelicals powerless to “save” me, but so is their God.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The local, visible church is an independent body of believers who are not associated or affiliated with any denomination. The pastor answers only to God, and to a lesser degree the church. The church answers to no one but God. Most IFB churches oppose any form of government involvement or intrusion into its affairs. While some IFB churches have deacon boards or elders, almost all of them have a congregational form of government.
F stands for Fundamentalist (or Fundamental)
The independent church is fundamentalist in its doctrine and practice. IFB churches are social and theological fundamentalists (see Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?). Fundamentalists adhere to an external code of conduct. Often this code of conduct is called “church standards.” The Bible, or should I say the pastor’s interpretation of the Bible, is the rule by which church members are expected to live. IFB churches spend significant time preaching and teaching about how the pastor expects people to live.
IFB churches are also theological fundamentalists. They adhere to a certain and specific theological standard, a standard by which all other Christians and denominations are judged. Every IFB pastor and church believes things like:
The inspiration, infallibility, and inerrancy of the Bible
The sinfulness, depravity of man
The deity of Christ
The virgin birth of Christ
The substitutionary blood atonement of Christ for human sin
The resurrection of Christ from the dead
The second coming of Christ
Separation from the world
Salvation is through Christ alone, by grace, through faith
Personal responsibility to share the gospel with sinners
Heaven and Hell are literal places
Saved people go to Heaven, unsaved people go to Hell
I am sure other doctrines could be added to this list, but the list above is a concise statement of ALL things an IFB church and pastor must believe to be considered an IFB church.
B stands for Baptist
IFB churches are Baptist churches adhering to the ecclesiology and theology mentioned above. Some IFB churches are Landmark Baptists or Baptist Briders. They believe the Baptist church is the true church and all other churches are false churches. John the Baptist baptized Jesus, which made him a Baptist, and the first churches established by the Baptist apostles were Baptist churches. Churches like this go to great lengths to prove that their Baptist lineage dates all the way back to John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostles. (See The Trail of Blood by J.M. Carroll.)
Other IFB churches and pastors believe that Baptist ecclesiology and theology are what the Bible clearly teaches. They grudgingly admit that other denominations “might” be Christian too, but they are quick to say, why be a part of a bastardized form of Christianity when you can have the real deal.
Some Southern Baptist churches are IFB. They are Southern Baptist in name only. It is not uncommon for an IFB pastor to pastor a Southern Baptist church with the intent of pulling it out of the Southern Baptist Convention. Because of this, Southern Baptist churches frequently reject resumes from pastors with an IFB background. Area missionaries warn churches about pernicious IFB pastors who desire to take over churches and pull the churches out of the Convention.
Today, I want to focus on the “I” in IFB — Independent.
To properly understand the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement, you must first understand the IFB concept of camps. In the IFB, a camp is the tribe to which you belong. It is a membership group that is defined by such things as what Bible version is considered the “true” Word of God, what college the pastor attended, approval or disapproval of Calvinism, open or closed communion, or ecclesiastical, personal, and secondary separation. Many IFB camps will have multiple “positions” that define their group, and admission to the group is dependent on fidelity to these positions. Many pastors and churches belong to more than one camp.
IFB churches, colleges, parachurch organizations, evangelists, missionaries, and pastors are quick to state that they are totally independent of any authority or control but God. Much like the Churches of Christ, the IFB church movement is anti-denomination and any suggestion that they are a denomination brings outrage and denunciation.
The IFB church movement found its footing as a reaction to the perceived liberalism in denominations such as the Southern Baptist Convention and the American Baptist Convention. In the 1970s and early 1980s, I heard IFB luminaries such as Jack Hyles go on preaching tirades against the Southern Baptist Convention. Hyles would run down a list of the top 100 churches in America, attendance-wise, and proudly remind people that the list contained only a handful of Southern Baptist churches. Hyles made it clear that the attendance numbers were proof that God was blessing the IFB church movement. Hyles, along with other noted IFB preachers, encouraged young pastors to either infiltrate Southern Baptist churches and pull them out of the Convention or start new independent churches.
It should come as no surprise, then, that many local Southern Baptist churches, under the direction of their area missionaries, would not accept resumes from men trained in IFB colleges when there was a pulpit vacancy. They rightly feared that if they hired an IFB-trained man, he might try to pull their churches out of the Convention. This was not paranoid thinking. Almost every IFB pastor who came of age in the 1960s-1980s heard sermons or classes on how to infiltrate a denominational church and change it or take it over. Pastors were schooled in things such as diluting the power base. They were told that one of the first things they should do as a new pastor is determine who the power brokers were. Could they be brought over to the pastor’s way of thinking? If so, he should befriend them. If not, he should work to marginalize their power by adding pastor-friendly men to church boards and by flooding the church membership with new converts. The goal was to further cripple denominations such as the Southern Baptist Convention and to establish IFB churches in every community in the United States.
For decades, this plan worked and countless churches abandoned their denominational affiliations and became IFB churches. Added to this number were thousands of new IFB churches that were planted all over the United States. The IFB church movement, as a collective whole, was a religious force to be reckoned with. Their rape-and-pillage policy left carnage and destruction in its wake, not unlike the Charismatic movement during the same time period.
Despite taking over countless churches, starting new churches, establishing colleges, and sending missionaries across the globe, the IFB church movement could not maintain its meteoric growth. Over time, internal squabbles, scandal, doctrinal extremism, worship of personalities, charges of cultism, and a changing culture eroded what had been built.
IFB pastors were quite proud of the fact that many of the largest churches in America were King James-loving, old-fashioned, fire-and-brimstone preaching IFB churches. Today, there is only one IFB church on the Top 100 list — First Baptist Church of Hammond.
Outside of Jerry Falwell’s church, Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia — now a Southern Baptist congregation — none of the IFB churches on the Top 100 list in 1972 have as many people attending their churches today as they did in 1972. Some, such as Emmanuel Baptist Church in Pontiac, Michigan — the church I attended while in college — and the Indianapolis Baptist Temple, have closed their doors. Others, such as the Canton Baptist Temple, Akron Baptist Temple, Landmark Baptist Temple in Cincinnati, Ohio, Highland Park Baptist Church in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and Trinity Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida are mere shadows of what they once were.
In 2008, only one IFB church was on the Top 100 Churches list: First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana. They were listed as the 19th largest church in the United States, with a weekly attendance of 13,678. This attendance number is less than their average attendance number in 1976. Outreach Magazine lists NO IFB churches on their 2017 Top 100 Churches list. This does not necessarily mean that there are no IFB churches that are large enough to make the list. I suspect many of the larger IFB churches have stopped bragging about their attendance numbers or they don’t want to be grouped together with churches they consider “liberal.”
Most of the IFB colleges that saw meteoric growth during the 1960s-1980s, now face static or declining enrollment numbers. Some have even closed their doors. Publications such as the Sword of the Lord, the IFB newspaper started by John R Rice, have lost thousands of subscribers. Everywhere one looks, the signs of decay and death are readily evident. A movement that once proudly crowed of its numerical significance has, in three generations, become little more than an insignificant footnote in U.S. religious history. While millions of people still attend IFB or IFB-like churches, their numbers continue to decline and there is nothing that suggests this decline will stop.
Many current IFB leaders live in denial about the true state of the IFB church movement. They now convince themselves that the numeric decline is due to their unflinching, uncompromising beliefs and preaching. Upton Sinclair wrote:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
I think this aptly describes what is going on among the leaders of the IFB church movement. Their continued power, control, and economic gain depend on them maintaining the illusion that the IFB church movement is healthy and still blessed by God. However, the facts on the ground clearly show that the IFB church movement is on life support and there is little chance that it will survive. Those who survive will liberalize, change their name, and try to forget their IFB past.
Every IFB church, pastor, and college has what I call a camp identity. While they claim to be Big I Independent, their identity is closely connected to the people, groups, and institutions they associate with.
Some of these groups will likely object to being considered the same as other IFB groups. Reformed and Sovereign Grace Baptists will most certainly resent being talked about in the same discussion as the Sword of the Lord and Jack Hyles. But many Reformed and Sovereign Grace Baptist pastors come from an IFB church background. While certain aspects of their theology might have changed, much of the IFB methodology and thinking remains. Some of the most arrogant, mean-spirited pastors I ever met were Sovereign Grace or Reformed Baptist pastors. They may have been five-point Calvinists, but they were in every other way Independent Fundamentalist Baptists.
Most people don’t know that groups such as the Southern Baptist Convention and the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches are really fellowship groups of like-minded pastors and churches. While they have many of the hallmarks of a denomination, their churches and pastors remain, for the most part, independent, under no authority but the local church (and God).
IFB churches and pastors trumpet their independent nature and, as their history has clearly shown, this independence has resulted in horrible abuse and scandal. But, despite their claim of independence, IFB churches and pastors are quite denominational and territorial. They tend to group together in their various camps, only supporting churches, colleges, pastors, evangelists, and missionaries, that are in their respective camps.
In 1983, I started the Somerset Baptist Church in Mount Perry, Ohio. I contacted Gene Milioni, the pastor of Trinity Baptist Church — the church where I was saved and called to preach — and asked him about the church supporting us financially. Milioni asked me if I was going to become a part of the Ohio Baptist Bible Fellowship. He wanted to know if the church was going to be a BBF church. I told him no, and he told me that I could expect no support from Trinity unless I was willing to be a BBF pastor. I ran into similar problems with other pastors who demanded I be part of their camp in order to receive help.
Only one church financially supported me: First Baptist Church in Dresden, Ohio. First Baptist, pastored by Midwestern Baptist College grad Mark Kruchkow, sent me $50 a month for a year or so. Every other dime of startup money came from my own pocket or the pockets of family members. I learned right away what it meant to be a true Independent Fundamentalist Baptist.
Over the years, I floated in and out of various IFB camps. I attended Ohio Baptist Bible Fellowship meetings, Midwestern Baptist College meetings, Massillon Baptist College meetings, Sword of the Lord conferences, Bill Rice Ranch rallies, and the Buckeye Independent Baptist Fellowship. For a few years, I attended a gathering of Calvinistic Baptist pastors called the Pastor’s Clinic in Mansfield Ohio. When I pastored in Texas, I fellowshipped with like-minded Sovereign Grace Baptist pastors.
Every group demanded something from me, be it money, commitment, or fidelity to certain beliefs. If I were to be part of the group, I was expected to support the colleges, churches, pastors, evangelists, and missionaries the group approved of. Stepping beyond these approved entities brought disapproval, distance, and censure.
The next time an IFB church member or pastor tries to tell you he is an INDEPENDENT Baptist, I hope you will remember this post. Take a look at the colleges, missionaries, churches, and pastors, the IFB church member or pastor supports. It won’t take you long to figure out what camp they are in, and once you figure out what camp they are in, you will know what they believe and what they consider important. The old adage, birds of a feather flock together, is certainly true when it comes to the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement.
Parts of this post were previously published.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
