Seth Dunn is a Fundamentalist Southern Baptist [Dunn has since written me and said he is not a Southern Baptist] who believes it is his duty to right all theological wrongs. Dunn, a professor at Tennessee Temple University, [Dunn has since written me and said he is not a professor at TTU; that the school went out of business a few years ago] is one of the hands-on proctologists at the Pulpit & Pen website.
Daily, the fine men at Pulpit & Pen rage against the machine — the “machine” being non-Fundamentalist, non-Calvinistic Christianity. Recently, Dunn took to Twitter to express his outrage over churches who hire female pastors. Thinking he was being clever, Dunn tweeted:
Dunn astoundingly believes that there is no difference theologically or morally between churches hiring female pastors and churches hiring sex offenders — rapists, perverts, sexual abusers, child molesters, and every other crime that might land you on the sex offenders list. Dunn rightly caught a lot of shit over his dumbassery, but he was not moved one whit from his viewpoint. He tweeted::
You see, all that Dunn cares about is loving what God loves and hating what God hates, or at least his interpretation of what the Bible says God loves and hates. In other words, Dunn hates most of the human race; which makes sense since Dunn is a card-carrying member of Club Calvin — an exclusive club made up special people chosen by God to be saved. I don’t know Dunn, but even in my Fundamentalist days I would have said, Dude, you are an idiot!
About Bruce Gerencser
Bruce Gerencser, 61, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 40 years. He and his wife have six grown children and twelve grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist. For more information about Bruce, please read the About page.
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He spells tomorrow ‘tommorow’.
Professor indeed!
Even in my most fundamentalist days I could not have agreed with Seth Dunn’s opinion and would consider it to be both senseless and deliberately harmful. Yikes! Hopefully rational religious people will justly recoil from such a position.
Ugh Tennessee Temple University is one of the schools along with Bob Jones University and Pensacola Christian College that my fundamentalist Christian school recommended to its students to attend. TTU had it’s own academy that was our school’s big in-state rival.
This guy REALLY hates women that much, huh?
A woman pastor!!!!
I am guessing it is a silent service 😉
Let’s see how much of their inerrant word they plan to follow
1 Timothy 2:11-12 New International Version (NIV)
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.
The Bible is full of such horseshit and the Apostle Paul hallucinated his ‘inspired word’. I feel like I must have been on narcotics AND hallucinogens to have ever been in that club… Holy Jesus, drown me in Kool-Aid!
In fairness to Paul he didn’t write Timothy and the verses in Corinthians on women being silent are considered by many scholars to be forgeries. He does address parts of his authentic letters to women so it seems he was more comfortable with women then our lovely doctor in this article . Hallucinating err visions was considered part of First Century Judaism so hardly surprising he did that.
Be that as it may the Bible does clearly teach women are to be silent in church and to learn only from their husband’s so I think the churches should enforce that rule:
4 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
It also requires women to wear veils:
4 [c]Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. 5 But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil.
7 [d]A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; 10 for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority[e] on her head, because of the angels. 11 [f]Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord.
I think this is wise indeed for as Paul notes women need this covering on their head because of the angels. I for one totally agree with Paul as we hardly need a repeat of the Noah’s Flood affair.
6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal[b]; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
The “sons of god” are of course angels. Job 1. 6 6 One day the heavenly beings[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came among them.
Footnote A Job 1:6 Heb sons of God
I for one have to agree with Paul that angel sex with his unveiled hotties ( after all the angels were tempted by them!) would have been very awkward indeed for our new religion…… Why isn’t our current church dealing with this problem with it’s female population is beyond me 🙂
To think churches in America now days just have to worry about who will cater the fried chicken. How times have changed!
A fine dose of humor and sarcasm on this Lord’s Day. 😉
Bad enough women have to worry about the clergy trying to sexually assault them at church, but now they have to worry about the angels doing that to them at church too. It really sucks to be a woman at church on occasions. Or would such sex be well heavenly… Or is it hotter than hell 😉
To bad they can’t tell us more but you know the rules from Timothy….
St Michael was hard on those sinful ladies takes a whole new meaning after reading Paul’s concerns….
While Jesus isn’t an angel maybe now we know why nuns are married to Jesus. Maybe they are Jesus’ second coming 😉
But at least these angels are not chasing children around so they are better behaved then a lot of clergy. To think scripture had to warn us about the dangers of angel sex in church but was oddly silent about other forms of dangerous sex in church. Inspiration does work in mysterious ways…
This is great.
ObstacleChick, I don’t think people like this hate women as much as they’re TERRIFIED of us. They’re also terrified that they can’t control themselves unless they keep their feet on our necks (kudos to RBG).
Maloyo, true, their vitriol is firmly rooted in fear. Kudos to all the men on earth who are not terrified of us but recognize us as partners, allies, equals.
What always amazed me about Calvinists was their arrogance-believing that they were the small number of God’s chosen people who alone would be allowed into heaven. No wonder they tend to be judgmental and moralistic. After all if God chose them they have every right to speak for him. Don’t they ever think that such a capricious and arbitrary supreme being could just as quickly decide to send them to hell just for shits and giggles?
Dave, ironically, you hit the nail on the head, there. I was a five-point Calvinist, and I fought against arrogance and elitism in my self, and I was not always successful. But God had my back, so to speak, and I had the Holy Spirit, the world was obligated to hear what I had to say about the Gospel. I would never have come out and admitted it, but that is how I felt. Ironically, predestination and sovereign election actually caused me to begin doubting my own election, because how could anyone but God actually know? In the system as I learned and experienced it, and with my own theological reasoning trying to explain defection away from the One True Faith even with apparent integrity by others, I could only conclude that some people were sent a strong delusion to believe in their own salvation and be rendered unable to truly believe and understand the Gospel. Then I talked to ex-believers (going outside of your bubble is always a bad idea if you are trying to maintain an impossible theological system in your own mind), who appeared to really understand the Gospel, they just rejected it and gave non-trivial reasons why, which I found difficult to dismiss and deny. So, my thinking gradually included the idea that the non-elect could truly understand and appreciate the Gospel for a time, but having no Holy Spirit, it could not last. Somehow, I also got the idea that someone could truly “believe” and yet still be lost, even though they believed in the Gospel and their own salvation without reservation. That was the only conclusion I could come to in order to explain the unbelief of those who departed the Calvinistic Christian faith, because the only other two conclusions I could think of I was forced to reject: the option that either salvation can be worked by God and yet lost by the same humans on which God has bestowed a work, or that it is all false and artificial in the first place (as John Loftus once said, and I paraphrase, there are no true Christians because Christianity is not true, etc.). I am not sure what I believe any more, as I still consider myself “spiritual” of a sort. I suppose you could say my Calvinism turned its own guns inward and started a protracted gun battle of not so “friendly fire” and turned me into a spiritual casualty of sorts. Better that, I think, though, than to be what I was.
You are so right about the connection between Calvinism and doubting one’s salvation/election. I knew a number of Calvinists who struggled with doubt. Calvinism is inherently a works-based religion, and doubters questioned whether their works was sufficient for someone claiming to be elect. It was, in every way, a vicious theological system.
Ever met a non-elect Calvinist? Me neither. 🙂
Bruce, that is a good point. LOL. My system pretty much mandated their existence, but none of the potential candidates ever believed or could believe they could possibly not be elect. It was only after they departed the faith, that the “faithful” like me branded them as such. For me, even though Calvinism is exactly the vicious works-based religion you say it is, my own trouble was not so much whether I was doing the right works or enough of them, but whether any of it really mattered—what if I did all the right things and I had been predestined to condemnation anyway? How could I know? Being strong in the faith and having no doubts meant ultimately nothing. Even those who died in the faith could be psycho-analyzed to the finest detail to see if there were some faults in their theology that could possibly reveal an unregenerate heart, especially anything to do with God’s sovereignty or morally questioning the righteousness of eternal conscious torment in Hell. In the end, I glorified an eschatological pessimism that asserted there were fewer Elect than even we the righteous ever supposed, and that even that number was a merciful increase by God’s grace from what would be merely sufficient. I really don’t miss that kind of thinking in the slightest.
Dear Mr. Gerencser, Idiocy is not a primary issue in my experience; in fact, in the frame behind this idiot is a cover from Bob Dylan’s Slow Train Coming, a remarkable piece of artistry. Dylan is no idiot and went through a ‘saved’ time, albeit without uttering dumbkoff stuff like this professor of dumbkoffism, Mr. Dunn. The problem with him and all the other drunk-on-Jesus people is that they have left Reason behind to cope with their horrible, disgusting, despicable selves, the sin of being human. Once Reason is left at the door and a biped can say “The Bible is inerrant and I understand it,” then all ‘idiocy’ breaks loose in the world, Temple Universities are built on it and on it goes. It is not an easy thing to see, to tolerate, particularly when one must contibute to it by allowing a tax-free status! Please tell me that Temple U. at least pays taxes!
Good question, on the taxes. I suspect, the college being an IFB institution (in origin), that they do not pay taxes.
Gerencser, you spread the misery today!
sad to say that people are actually following this idiot and living their lives by what he dictates. watched this happen as kid where people just wanted a pastor to tell them what to do no matter how stupid or harmful the advice. this guy may also be trying to obscure the publicity over the sex offenders in his organization.
The reason he has had a Twitter storm is because a LOT of Christians are very upset with him. I reported this and a follow-up to Twitter yo see if they will ban him. I encourage you all to do the same thing. I also put in a comment reminding him that any female missionaries he supports, especially if single, probably preach because they are the only ones who can.
After some reflection, (I am kind of dull and take lots of time with what is obvious immediately to others, so be patient, please…)
I wonder if anybody else felt as I did, somewhat confused about the purpose of the teacher’s original post saying women pastors are akin to sex offenders. What if he believes that women are made for men as many believe the Bible intends and when they rebel by becoming pastors they sin against men first and not God specifically. After all it is men who are responsible to God to control these lesser vessels and when she takes up preaching as if she has a penis, well, that isn’t too good. She is, in fact, offending the male member by commiting a sex crime against herself by preaching outside her proper role and more importantly against men. Sowomen preachers ARE in fact sex offenders as pastors. You can see that Seth Dunn has done his biblical homework here. Women are weaker and make mistakes. The very interesting and provocative thing to me is that he of course honors and loves women in Christ Jesus, Just as he loves sex offenders! Sex offenders are not so bad that Jesus can’t forgive them. Hyles and Swaggert will explain it all! Something gone awry in Temple? Naw, it has not changed much, I’d bet from a 25 years ago.
During my church experience we’d be subjected to taking one of those “gift” seminars where we had to check off our strengths and weaknesses and then add them all up and see what our score revealed and what gift(s) we had; that of course were suppose to be used in church service.
Apparently my gift was that of: pastor. Oh the looks on those men’s faces. Every. single.time. I got a kick out of it actually. The room would fall silent. I’d ask for an explanation. The pastor(s) would mumble a bit, try to look casual, smile (oh that creepy smile) and then say ‘well often women who are mothers score high on the pastoral area because they are mothers.’ LOL! Then they’d basically drop that and say, “what was your second highest score?” BTW, if you are wondering where we women who scored as a pastor belonged? You guessed it . . . the nursery.
Ah yes, finding out your gift. I remember visiting one church where they asked us what our gifts were. Polly and I shared what we had done in the past and what we enjoyed doing. We quickly found out for me, saying preaching and teaching was my gift was viewed as a threat, and for Polly, saying music was her gift didn’t fit where they needed “help.” And where did the church need help? That’s right, the nursery. 🙂 Needless to say, we didn’t join this church. Polly was clear to me: “I did the nursery thing for decades. I ain’t doing any more of it!” 🙂
My true gifting was that of being a thornish Eve. *big grin*
He hath been forordained before the foundation of the world with supralapsarian ability to tell you all that your all morons and to believeth whatever he saieth.