A Christian man by the name of Gennaro wants me to LISTEN to him. What follows is what he wants me to hear. Are you ready? Drum roll, please. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.
I think you have missed the point, and I will defend the gift that GOD has given all, Jesus Christ.
What point, exactly, have I missed? You are defending a dead guy. But even if Jesus resurrected from the dead and ascended back to Heaven 2,000 years ago, why does he need you to defend him? Is Jesus so weak and powerless that he can’t defend himself or speak for himself; that he needs verbal masturbators such as you to speak on his behalf? If so, Jesus really needs to choose better spokespeople.
But free will, which GOD had also given us, as He doesn’t make us into Robots? It is up to the individual, a choice to follow Christ Jesus, and as a Christian Believer, I know I’m not perfect in the flesh, and deserve death!
Is God sovereign? Is God in control? Are predestination and election taught in the Bible? Is God the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end? Does God have free will? Can I thwart God’s will? Has anything happened that God doesn’t know about? Are there things God has no control over? Was Jesus a lamb slain from before the foundation of the world; before anyone “chose” to believe?
So many questions! What evidence do you have for your claim that we have free will? Something tells me that you have not really thought about these things, nor studied the Bible. Yet, you come to this site preaching that which you do not know.
The World is wide, and the road to destruction is also Leads to Death! If we are to follow Christ, we Must Have Faith, Living In His Commandments! If we say we Believe that Christ Came In The Flesh, we Are His Children! If we Say that We Have No Sin, The Truth Is Not In Us! If we are Truthful to GOD, Knowing, that We Need Him, and Confess Our Sins, He is Our Mediator, Who Asks The Father, as Our High Priest, Our Deliverer, Who Knew Not Sin, but Became Sin for Us! For GOD So Loved The World, that He Gave Us His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, that Anyone Who Calls Upon His Name, Shall Be Saved!
What is the “world?” Don’t you live in the “world” just as all of us do? The only difference between you and me is that you are irrationally in love with a dead man, and you think it your duty to tell others about your love affair with this man. Do you have any evidence for your claim that Jesus is still alive, that he walks with you, talks with you, and tells you that he is your BFF? Not your personal testimony. Not verses from an errant, contradictory religious text. Actual verifiable, empirical evidence. Get together with Etienne, another Jesus-loving masturbator, and try to come up with compelling evidence for your claims. Just because you say something is true, doesn’t make it so.
Personally, I love life on the broad way and wide road. It’s paved with freedom. Why would I ever want to walk the road you are on? No thanks.
Listen Bruce, Men have tried through The Centuries, to Created a Perfect World, Clearly Without GOD, and Not IN His Plan!
You mean Christians aren’t trying to create a perfect world? Sure, they are. Don’t you want a world where everyone worships your peculiar version of God and follows your interpretation of the Bible? Don’t you want a world where the flashing sign on the strip club says, JESUS! JESUS! JESUS! 24/7?
I am a humanist. Through humanistic principles and ideals, I want to make the world a better place to live. After all, I only have one life, as do you, and then we die and go to He . . . we just die, end of story. My children and grandchildren will live on, and I want them to have a better life than I had. You, on the other hand, think this world is a shithole. Sin and Satan have ruined everything, and so you are just hanging on until you die and God rewards you with a sweet, gold-plated room in Trump’s Heavenly Mara-Largo. And what will you spend eternity doing? Praising and worshiping a narcissistic God who demands your eternal fealty.
The Catholic Church, has deviated, and Destroyed Many Souls for Christ, Throughout the Centuries, Before the Protestant Formation? Waldesians, in The Italian Alps, Celtic Christians, in England and Ireland, Viadous, French Alps, and many other Authentic Christians from many parts in The World at that Time, and GOD is still working Through Many, Searching, Praying, and Living The Gospel as the evil one’s Time is Short, as a Roaring Lion, trying to Destroy Our Souls, and What is GOOD! Repent and Walk in The Faith! GOD knew that we were NOT PERFECT! But Christ was PERFECT, which we must Try and Emulate In This Life, as Our Heavenly Farther Searches The Heart of Man, even with our Shortcomings in The Flesh, We Strive to Perfection, as in Our Hearts and Minds, Following GOD and Christ, Inwardly, ,without The Oral Law of Tradition but as in Faith, We can Keep His Commandments. Blessed Be GOD, Creator of The Universe Amen
Ah yes, there’s a pure, true line of believers down through history that have kept the one true faith. And let me guess . . . you are one of those believers, right? Sure glad such a saintly Christian stopped by to tell me the TRUTH.
Gennaro then sent me a another message:
Another Thing Bruce, it Isn’t GOD’S Fault, But Only Men! As the evil one, puts a Stumbling Block in Our Way, Enticing us with All That Is Of The World! GOD has Given Us, the Gift of Christ, to Die in Our Place, Not Because We Deserved This, but Because GOD Loved Us and as A Father, we Should Love Him, Respect Him, Fear and Obey Him, Just Like Our earthly father’s, We Should Love, fear, Respect, and Obey, Amen
If God is who and what the Bible says he is, then he is responsible for everything. God even created evil according to the Good Book. You have shaped and crafted a God in your own image, Gennaro. You ignore God’s character traits and behaviors that disagree with you or present your deity in a bad light.
Dr. Richard Dawkins had this to say about your God, Gennaro:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
THIS God is in the Bible too. You can’t pick and choose. Either God is who the Bible says he is, or he doesn’t exist. I’m going with the latter. And if the God of the Bible is real, I wouldn’t worship him. Such a being is not worthy of my worship and obedience.
I read Gennaro’s comments to Polly after she came home from work last night. I said, “imagine a huge, life-sized picture of Jesus hanging on a bedroom wall. Imagine a man with his underwear and pants dropped to the floor, busy masturbating to the picture of Jesus. This is Gennaro.”
Gennaro finds pleasure in telling strangers that they are headed for Hell unless they believe what he believes. He loves constructing long sentences filled with Bible references, certain that his words will bring Bruce Gerencser and others like him to Jesus. Perhaps, Gennaro can share with us how many people he has “reached” with his masturbatory evangelism efforts. I suspect the answer is none, leading me to conclude that Gennaro’s messages are all about him, and not effectively reaching others for Jesus. You see, deep down in his heart of hearts, Gennaro has a pathological need to be right. What better way to reinforce his rightness than putting an Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist in his place?
Good job, Gennaro, good job. You have reminded former believers yet again how glad they are to be free from the mind-numbing, harmful teachings of Christianity.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I have lost the ability to read this type of blather. After about a sentence I go into a coma. None of them care what you really think, as long as they can preach about a living God who’s going to torture you for eternity unless you BELIEVE.
I hid behind the free will argument for years, feeling that it answered all the arguments about god’s responsibility for the suffering and pain in our world. As the other building blocks of my faith crumbled I realized how weak this argument was. Why was the free will of the murderer or rapist superior to their victims whose will was not to be victimized? If free will is so important to god why did it not exist in heaven? Why would an omniscient god not see the damage his version of free will would bring? As an indoctrinated Christian I could not allow such questions to enter my mind. Now they are just obvious
Well, looking at how Gennaro has structured his words in emailing you, Bruce, the whole thing appears jumbled and disjointed. Some words begin with capitals, some don’t, the weird colloquialisms, yes it’s hard to get through. He hasn’t sent anything you haven’t seen before. It seems he was in a rush and didn’t think this through.
Free will is a real biggie for me. Once you start questioning what we actually mean by the term you start to realise that it is a concept that doesn’t make sense. Because we have consciousness, which is little more than hyper awareness, we have an overwhelming feeling that we are in control of our thoughts and actions. We aren’t. Everything we think and do is the result of countless millions of physical processes taking place in our bodies, with our ‘consciousness’ being nothing more than an observer. It’s a massively immersive experience, to the extent that knowing this doesn’t really affect how we live, but it does rather knock on the head the idea that god gave us the ‘gift’ of free will.
Is it just me, a bit of a nit-picky grammar and style nerd but I’m totally put off by any argument that’s as badly composed as this? All those capitals. His statements are rubbish of course, and to me anyway, made to look a lot worse by his disregard for the conventions of style etc. I understand when folks whose first language isn’t english make grammatical or word errors etc in comments….but this guy….just weird. Guess his hotline to the holy ghost told him this was a Sure Fire Approach To An Apostate, he has an Unbeatable Argument and You, Bruce Will Be Down On Your Knees Begging For Forgiveness Right After Reading It….think his hell’ll freeze over before that happens to you or to any of us here, doncha think?
Matilda, I entirely agree on your point about grammar. I’m absolutely not a member of the grammar police as it’s so easy to make typing errors, punctuation errors, and styles vary considerably. There is, however, a point at which it’s more than just error or style, and it becomes indicative of desperately poor education, combined with an obsessive feeling of being right. This seems to result in lots of capitals, being the written equivalent of shouting, together with at times almost gibberish grammar. It’s almost invariably a clear sign of evangelical fundamentalism.
I don’t want anyone approaching me with their religious drivel until they can master the English language through an 8th grade level.
It’s amazing how many people want to terrorize you with threats of hell, Bruce. As if you hadn’t heard that thousands of times before – and heck, if they had bothered to spend some time reading your work, they would understand that you have PREACHED it hundreds of times.
The laziness of some of these commentors is mind-boggling.
Hello Bruce, I’ve been reading your blog for some time now, I haven’t all but I read as many I can find at a time. I emailed you for help but you haven’t responded and I understand. This story and this guy are exactly what I’m facing now. I can say that I identify as an agnostic right now, I have always had questions but when I ask, my very religious Protestant parents would respond exactly how Gannon responded, just with a little more yelling and threats that i’ll lose everything, gifts, blessings and life that I have. When they talk about how loving their God is, my mind quickly runs through how according to the Bible, Israelites suffered because of DISOBEDIENCE. I mean, if I had a child that snuck out to a party I told him not to, I would probably just ground him or better still talk things out, not kill and destroy him and his generations. Plus, I always get this one in my head, if Adam and Eve technically were pure and didn’t know sin before they ate the apple, how could that have counted as a sin. I mean at least for the Israelites they just died, but now it’s die and suffer for eternity. For me, I think it’s exactly what you said, christians believe that this earth is a shithole, I know many that actually pray for the destruction of Earth. Like when I talk to them about global warming and pollution, they said you can’t stop the disasters, it’s fufillment of the gospel. Like wtf, or when the terrorists invade churches and kill people, it’s persecution, when the exact same thing happened in Gaza, Its their God fighting for his people. Honestly, the only thing keeping me there is fear and that was why I emailed you, so you can help clear things up for me. Well, i’ve said too much, bye and thank you for your content.
Hey Victor, Bruce has multiple health issues that dramatically affect his life. (He explains this in this blog, too, no secrets.) So he may only have the strength to do very little. I’m not a former fundie and not agnostic or atheist, but someone else here can probably answer some of your questions from that perspective.
BJW, hey
Yes I’ve read about some of Bruce’s health issues and I’m deeply sorry and hope he gets better. I fully understand Bruce’s situation, pls can you help me identify anyone else who can help me? Thanks.
You should start by reading Bart Ehrman’s books. I think you will at least be able to decide if you need to be following the path you are on.
Victor,
Bart Ehrman also has a youtube channel, and for each of his books, there is usually a 1-1.5 hr lecture about that book that gives the highlights. It obviously has less information than the books, but unless you’re a speed reader, it’ll probably be much faster to get the gist of the situation, and be ready to dive into whichever books have the content you’re most troubled with.
Once you’ve watched the 5-6 videos that cover the topics of his books, you’ll understand how incredibly shaky the “inerrant” claims are.
He also has debates between himself and various christians on his channels, of which I haven’t watched very many.
If you have specific issues (eg, the notion of hell), there’s probably a debate or lecture a little more focused on that. Otherwise, perhaps start with the books in the order he wrote them. (Somewhere Bruce Almighty wrote his own preferred order for the books, but I don’t have a link to that specifically.)
forgot the link…
https://www.youtube.com/c/bartdehrman
Our nation was rich… God did this. Our nation was poor… God punished us. Our nation was overcome by an army and our men and women taken into captivity. God did this to punish us some more. Yet at the same time the world is a mess because it’s our fault. Look either God did it or we did it, and don’t use this… you made me angry so I hit you (your fault) victim blaming stuff.
How about God didn’t do anything it was just a bunch of stuff happening.