Excerpt from an Al Jazeera interview of Noam Chomsky
The United States is increasingly split – so is Israel. This is the first time Israeli leadership has openly broken with US leadership … when Smotrich and Ben-Gvir and sometimes Netanyahu say: ‘We’re just going to disregard what you want,’ openly and brazenly to American leadership, that’s new.
Recently, Israel may not have liked US policies, but when the United States demanded that it do something, it would do it. That was true of every US president up until Obama. Trump, of course, went all out to offer Israel anything it wanted, in love with Israeli power, violence and repression. Recognised the Golan Heights annexation, Jerusalem annexation, supported settlement policies all in violation not only of international law but of US policy. US had supported the Security Council resolutions that banned the Israeli takeover of Golan Heights and of Jerusalem. Trump reversed all that. … He did the same thing with Morocco, recognising Moroccan takeover of Western Sahara, which is somewhat analogous to the Palestinian situation.
But the new administration, especially the leading figures like Ben-Gvir, Bezalel Smotrich, are simply telling the United States: ‘Get lost.’ Netanyahu has made pretty strong statements, saying: ‘We’re a sovereign country, we’ll do what we want.’ It’s the first time the confrontation has been this clear and it’s not clear how the United States will respond.
Two or three years ago … a US representative in the House of Representatives, Betty McCollum, introduced legislation calling for the United States to reconsider US military aid to Israel in light of US law [which] has been regularly violated by US aid to Israel. Didn’t get very far.
Just a couple of days ago, Bernie Sanders introduced legislation calling for prohibition of US aid to Israel … asking for inquiry into its possible conflict with US laws which ban US military aid to any country which is involved in human rights violations. The IDF [Israeli army] is involved … so if there’s an inquiry into this, it might lead to a debate about the legality of the US aid to Israel.
Well, I think all of these things could lead to big changes in the future … It is based to a large extent on substantial shifts in public opinion. I can tell this just from personal experience, I’ve been giving talks, writing and so on about Israel-Palestine issues. Up until pretty recently, I used to have to have police protection if I gave a talk on a campus because of the violent antagonism of the pro-Israel forces. Police insisted on walking me to my car after a talk because of the threat. Even on my own campus, city police and campus police would be there if I was giving a talk. That changed radically.
The point at which it changed is easily identifiable: Operation Cast Lead. That was so brutal, violent, young people just weren’t going to take it any more. I think that was a real tipping point. You could see it very clearly in things like talks on campuses, even strongly pro-Israel campuses like Brandeis University …changed very sharply. These are attitudes of younger people that are going to have a big effect on all of us in the future. So there are conflicts brewing. You don’t see it yet in policy, but I think you can see the beginnings of it.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Is it worse for a country to occupy another country—or to help another country occupy another country?
There hasn’t been a single day in my lifetime (and I ain’t young ) when my native country, the United States, hasn’t done one or both. And the country we’ve aided and abetted has been Israel.
If it looks like a proxy war and quacks like a proxy war…
Recent polls show that while support for Israel is still strong among American Jews, it is waning somewhat, except among the ultra-Orthodox. A major reason, I beliet, is that they are realizing that some of the most ardent supporters of aid to Israel’s military are also some of this country’s more fervent ant-Semites who simply see the rise of Israel as the fulfillment of one part of a Biblical promise.
And let’s not forget the sick profiteering that ‘American love’ of Israel offers…. The war-machine is like the town’s rich deacon running the business of the church. The mouthpiece preacher (I am reminded by MJ’s gifted ‘typo’, “ant-Semite”) will talk about Israel as protected by God while still reminding the good Baptists that all those Israeli’s who don’t acknowledge Jesus as Lord, are fairly doomed to eternal damnation…) In the bigger picture, that bus loading for the streets of gold, the Baptists are up front and the believer-Israelis get the back of the bus! Don’t forget that brilliant, speed-mouth George Carlin and his reminder that while an all-and-everything God loves us, he needs our MONEY.
Shucks I love that artist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iouZYYzQEjU
Brian—I remember that George Carlin routine well. And, your image of “the town’s rich deacon running the business of the church,” is great!
While money motivates much American support for Israel, even the least Biblically literate Evangelicals know that God, in their Bible, sometimes used individual, and entire nations and races of, people as pawns to “save” others or simply carry out his whims, I mean, will. If you believe in that sort of God, you don’t have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to support Israel, even if you are Evangelical and believe that Jewish space lasers (financed by George Soros, of course) caused the wildfires in western North America.
Hey, MJ, thank you for your many contributions to this site. If you haven’t listened to Bart Ehrman’s very recent (in the last week, I think) interview on Fresh Air with Terry Gross (for his new book on Revelation), it’s well worth a listen, as Bart talks about people like John Hagee, and the whole bizarre “endtimes” insanity of evangelicals. There is no doubt that many Israeli politicians now court evangelicals for US support, rather than American Jews, and as you may know, one of the contentious issues in Israel now is efforts by arch-conservatives in Netanyahu’s government seeking to redefine who is a Jew in such a way as to exclude many American Jews.
Rand—I heard that interview. While I’ve read Ehrman and realized how much Evangelical (I was one!) support for Israel is based on the notion that it fulfills a Biblical prophecy, I never thought about how much a sometimes -wlllful misreading of Revelation plays into it. I have to admit that I got a chuckle when he said that not only are the translations not very good, neither is the original Greek. (Since I don’t know the language, I’ll take his word for it.)
I wish that once there was the country, starting in 1948, that aid to Israel was tied with good behavior on their part. People who are jerks over have had free reign to do pretty much whatever they wanted. What a shame that Abraham,also a jerk- had two boys with two different women, and played favorites with Isaac. The Arabs have their part, with the Hagar and Ishmael narrative. So this is one of those nasty family squabbles. The Palestinian Authorities, there in Gaza, are so corrupt,stealing aid money that should going directly to those average Palestinian families !! I know that’s one reason for the violence over there. I was really hoping that the Arab Spring would make a lasting difference, and it would deflate this Armageddon thing that many church goers long for. So depressing,all of it !🤮😭
While I don’t always agree with Chomsky on every political issue (though, most), as a linguist myself, I can certify that he has been for theoretical linguistics in the 20th century what Einstein was for physics. He’s now in his 90’s and still going strong. Go Noam! He is the conscience of America.
I really, really want Armageddon to not happen, and there ARE politicians who are using their status in Washington, to actually bring this about !! Right now, Putin is forcibly drafting Russian Asians to go to the Ukraine to fight. There are videos of Russian soldiers beheading POWS. My people will bear the brunt of the carnage in Armageddon, as they use horses now, just as in the Mongolian wars years ago. I found out how democracy was sabotaged by certain American officials in Russia,when there was still hope. Goldman Sachs. They totaled the Ruble,caused so much ruin ! Yeltsin was corrupt, and gave the KGB full reign. Back when there was independent TV stations in Russia, reporters risked their lives to warn the world. I watched Russian TV one day out of curiosity, that was an eyeopener ! No wonder so many courageous journalists were murdered, along with many democracy activists that Americans never heard of. This did set the stage for Putin. His installation as ” President” was tragic to behold. Seeing his reptilian demeanor, my heart sank, understanding that he is more than capable of launching WW3. The Neocons have their survival tactics worked out, they believe a war like this is survivable, only for them of course. What a convenient way to get rid of the poor. Neocons HATE democracy as much as Communists do ! Never forget this.
Wow, Yulya, what a perspective. Thanks for sharing. I share your opinion of Putin, though with far less experience and knowledge than you have. As far as I’m concerned the invasion of Ukraine has become a proxy war between the U.S.and Russia. Proxy wars are palatable to Americans because you get to be aggressive, endlessly expend weapons (thus feeding the military industrial complex), yet not suffer any local carnage that might affect elections. I do not support violence. But I agree that we are one impulsive act away from nuclear war.
Yulya, Your comment is something every American should read. I think there is an interesting and disturbing parallel between Evangelicalism and Neoconservativism. Just as the Evangelicals and Fundamentalists can rationalize their cruelty in the name of a Bible they have read superficially, if at all, neocons can rationalize war and subversion of other countries in the name of an American history about which they know little or nothing–and will do anything to ensure that other Americans know as little as, or even less than, they know.
When I was an evangelical, I TOTALLY supported Israel – God’s chosen people and all – and never questioned why a group of people who claimed heritage should be given already-inhabited land. We haven’t done that with other groups- and no country has really treated indigenous people as they should have been treated. There could have been a much better way to integrate immigrants into already-existing communities. Now we have segregated walled-off communities where inhabitants are treated as criminals – it’s an apartheid situation.
Studying how the eschatology of evangelicalism grew highlights the through line of Christian Zionism joining forces with Jewish Zionism and creating the nation of Israel and the resulting allyships that followed. Netanyahu himself understood the value in befriending and dare I say exploiting the evangelicals who, while they don’t see Jews as equals see the necessity of promoting the Jewish state of Israel in order to fulfill evangelical eschatology.
I know it’s fiction, but I just finished an Israeli show on Netflix called Fauda which addresses some of the issues there. It isn’t a cut-and-dried good guy vs bad guy situation there, and the show does try to address those complexities.
https://www.chick.com/products/excerpts/comics/3022-excerpt.html Warning! Incoming sarcasm. Under no circumstances should the United States government try to make Israel give up portions of the land now under its control. Such efforts will only lead to the United States suffering untold natural disasters. If you don’t believe me, just read this excerpt of this Jack Chick comic. Unfortunately this excerpt stops with the “perfect storm” that hit George H.W. Bush’s house one day after he said that Israel needed to make territorial compromises for peace.
That’s a great tract, Brocken, thanks for sharing it. I guess God pretty much provides rosy weather unless one harbors evil in his heart against Israel or some televangelist. This fact suggests that after every hurricane, tornado, flood, whatever weather tantrum, we should go house to house in the impacted areas to find out who suggested that Israel surrender territory, and make them pay for whatever damage has occurred. My guess is someone in Las Vegas is responsible for the Colorado River drying up, too. And God only knows what the dinosaurs said to warrant a meteorite.
MJ and Rand, thanks for your kind words ! Yeah, with all the craziness going on overseas as well as here, I’m very bummed out regarding all of this. And as for surviving another major war, it was outrageous to learn there are NO plans here, to save any citizens, we’re on our own. Having dinner and scrolling right now, trying to remember the exact title of a book about this very subject, I think it may be Raven Rock : The Elite’s Plan to Save Themselves While Letting You Die. I wrote that down a few years ago. Both parties are in on this. So it’s good to save up for the proverbial rainy day, if you can.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-crowds-chant-racist-slogans-taunt-palestinians-during-jerusalem-day-march