Most Evangelicals believe humans are born sinners; that from the moment of conception, humans sin in thought, word, and deed; that humans don’t become sinners, they are sinners. Further, the Bible tells us humans are the enemies of God; haters of holiness and truth. Labeled, “natural (unsaved) men,” the Bible says unregenerate people CAN NOT understand the things of God
Salvation (deliverance) from sin requires the active work of God on behalf of people who are dead in trespasses and sin. Humans have no power to save themselves. Salvation requires regeneration and faith, both of which must be given to unsaved people for them to be saved.
Most Evangelicals are cradle Christians, meaning they were born into and came of age in Evangelical churches. Typically, Evangelical congregants come to faith between the ages of four and fourteen. Ninety-eight percent of Evangelicals come to faith in Christ by age thirty. Simply put, most Evangelicals are saved before developing mature, rational thinking skills. It is much harder for someone to be saved once they develop the skills necessary to distinguish truth from bullshit.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, was raised in an Evangelical Christian home. The only religion he knows is Evangelicalism. Thiessen believes the words “Evangelical” and “Christian” are interchangeable. In his mind, Evangelicalism — his peculiar version of it, anyway — is True Christianity. Thiessen has a Christian Missionary and Alliance background. The CMA sect is a garden-variety Evangelical denomination. Within the sect, you will find believers who believe once a person is saved, he can never, ever fall from grace, and other congregants who believe a Christian can lose their salvation. What Thiessen actually believes on this issue is unclear. He has espoused both views, and has, at times, promoted works-based salvation. His viewpoint is determined by the particular theological point he is trying to justify.
Recently, Dr. David Tee, who is neither a doctor nor a Tee, wrote a post titled We Are Against Deconstruction. Here’s an excerpt from we’s post: 🙂
The issue here is the word ‘skepticism’. This is where many believers go wrong. Their skepticism should have been done long before they made a decision to follow Christ. All doubts should have been dealt with prior to that same decision.
There is no need to be skeptical about Christ or the Christian faith once one has been redeemed by Christ. That experience alone should tell them that God is real and that the Bible is true. Having second thoughts after you have been living the Christian life is wrong.
….
If one has doubts about a doctrine or practice of the church, they should search scripture to get the truth, like the Bereans did in Acts, and then follow the truth. No one should be deconstructing their faith as they did that before they became a Christian.
No one is born a Christian either so they should not live under a false assumption. Do your deconstructing before accepting Christ as your savior for then you still have a chance to be saved.
….
Doubts and skepticism after you have become a Christian is evil doing spiritual warfare against you and you need to do spiritual warfare against those attacks. Deconstruction is throwing up the white flag and surrendering. That is just the wrong thing to do after you believe.
According to Thiessen, children are supposed to deconstruct their Christian beliefs BEFORE they become Christians. All doubts and skepticism should be dealt with before a person is saved. This, of course, is impossible. The unsaved person, according to the Bible, cannot understand the things of God. They are dead in trespasses and sins, alienated from God, without hope in this present world. Yet, unbelievers are supposed to have a comprehensive understanding of Christianity BEFORE they are saved. How is this even possible, knowing that most Evangelicals are saved when they are children?
Most Evangelicals are saved BEFORE they have a full understanding of all that Christianity teaches. I heard scores of evangelism experts say that when winning sinners to Christ, soulwinners should tell them just enough to get saved; that they should avoid questions and stick to the plan of salvation. There will be plenty of time for their questions after they are saved! Most Evangelicals become Christians without thoroughly investigating the central claims of Christianity, and, sadly, many saved Evangelicals never take a hard look at what they believe.
How can a six-year-old child, raised in Evangelicalism by Evangelical parents, possibly determine whether Christianity is true? They do not have the rational thinking skills to do so — in a comprehensive way. Children “believe” because their parents, family, and tribe “believe.” Rarely, does skepticism play a part in their decision to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. One can’t be skeptical if they have no understanding of the world’s religions. How can one choose if he or she is only given one choice? Deconstruction requires choices. How can anyone possibly deconstruct Evangelicalism until they have first been exposed to non-Evangelical religions, beliefs, and practices? Choice requires knowledge, but most Evangelical children are deliberately sheltered from any other religion but Evangelicalism. And when these sheltered believers are exposed to the “world,” what often happens? They start asking questions, beginning their travel on the path of deconstruction.
Deconstruction is not the enemy — simplistic, untested faith is. Thiessen thinks his site exists to promote Biblical Christianity; a place where doubters and questioners can find answers. The problem is that Thiessen only has one answer for every question: believe and practice what the Bible says. The B-i-b-l-e, yes that’s the book for me, I stand alone on the Word of God, the B-i-b-l-e. BIBLE!
Thiessen believes deconstruction leads to Hell:
Yes, deconstruction does lead to hell because Christians are following and listening to unbelievers over God and his word. Peter talks about leaving the faith and it is not pretty. There is only one truth, one true faith, and deconstruction does not lead you to either.
In other words, rationalism and skepticism lead to Hell, ignorance leads to Heaven. My, what an advertising slogan.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Interesting,‘the bogeymen people will find when they can’t honestly look at themselves in the mirror. People with sexual hangups—and who can’t or won’t evaluate their parenting—blame LGBTQ people. Those who can’t or won’t examine their (often unconscious) attitudes about race and class attack Critical Race Theory. And those who can’t or won’t acknowledge their own doubts about, or the inherent contradictions in, their faith and beliefs blame deconstruction.
The common denominator is this: Such folks simply have no idea of what they are talking about. They don’t know, or want to know LGBTQ people. They wouldn’t understand Critical Race Theory if they were admitted to a club with a “Whites Only” sign on its door. And they couldn’t understand Deconstruction if à Deconstructionist took apart their church,
brick by brick, stone by stone.
Next Halloween, I am going to be Deconstruction. I’ll be that voice in the haunted house: “ooontologee.
Boooo!”
I listened to my teen nephews talk with fervor about their charismatic religious beliefs and their far-right politics. They’re still in high school, raised by undereducated religious right-wing parents. These boys have limited access to media and live in the Bible Belt in a mostly white rural neighborhood. Even kids at school make fun of their charismatic beliefs. So they’re pretty firm in their beliefs with the sincerity of inexperienced youth. I wonder if one day they will be able to explore the world in a way their parents have not. I wonder if then they may question the beliefs they were taught before they had the skills to examine critically. If they choose to remain in the bubble, they probably won’t question the beliefs…..
“What Thiessen actually believes on this issue is unclear.”
it’s plainly obvious what he believes: he believes that, because it’s “god”, it doesn’t have to make sense.
he could say that “god” demands that everyone in the world, in order to be “saved”, must worship mickey mouse, and because “the bible says unregenerate people CAN NOT understand the things of god” he has no obligation to explain it to anybody.
the fact that he DOES try to explain it, and in such minute detail, is what makes him so ridiculous. 😉
Such a great post Bruce.
I was a child who asked questions, including during my prayer for salvation at age 13 in which I question Jesus furiously, desperately trying to understand why he’d send me to hell. Jesus never answered. All any 16-20 year old counsellor could do is say, “Bible.”
When we ask those who are suppose to be our leaders questions, it is often those leaders who haven’t answered those questions yet themselves. They don’t know. I recall a senior pastor telling me not to worry about that, you’ll gradually become enlightened. Just get back to serving and let us worry about the rest. Umm, why don’t you hurry up on my enlightening and answer the question?
I thank the little voices that questioned me during my years in lay youth ministry. They assisted me in my desconstrucion.
“How can a six-year-old child, raised in Evangelicalism by Evangelical parents, possibly determine whether Christianity is true? ”
Well, Kee-riced! How could a ten-year-old or a twelve-year-old (or even a much older person) when raised in the delusional bubble of evangelicalism, tell which way was up or down in these matters? Where would the perspective come from? As Zoe says, even the older teens have no answer to honest doubts and challenges, except to blurt BIBLE. The concepts ‘visited’ on children in the evangelical world are downright abusive. ‘Doc’ Tee is espousing abuse by Bible-ing overseas children into the cultish bubble that is especially harmful in the overseas mission work. Along with the colonial overlords who brought ‘progress’ with a huge cost, western missionaries bring stunted views of religion to other parts of the world. All those who resist are condemned as Tee condemns Gerencser. Just imagining the narcissistic entitlement sets my head to thumping!
I disappeared for a while thinking your blog was safe from the headaches Derrick and his … fascinating … logic cause me, but decided to poke my head back in to see how you are doing these days. To slightly diverge off topic for a moment, I genuinely do hope you are well.
Now … first of all, I am a believer. Derrick wouldn’t identify me as a believer, for the sole reason that Derrick and I hold different views on whether the first half of 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (“prove all things”) should apply to his expositions on his blog … but I am. Nonetheless, I am a believer who acknowledges that any believer who says they never feel skepticism, never feel doubt, never lose their way … is a bald-faced liar. Derrick included.
As one who has struggled with my own health issues, and knows that some of his struggles are worse than my own … not to mention knowing that Derrick helplessly watched his faith-filled mother die even as a multitude of prayers were lifted for her and went unanswered … Derrick would simply not be human if such challenges didn’t prompt questions and doubts, even if he never voiced them.
My own pastor, one of the giants of the faith in my eyes, admitted to having a crisis of faith during his own health issues several years ago. I do not for a moment question the “real-ness” of the faith of someone who struggles under such circumstances. I do, however, question whether a man who denies ever having faced such a struggle and/or denies even momentarily faltering at such a moment is conveniently ignoring Leviticus 19:11 (whereas the Big Ten says “thou shalt not bear false witness”, Lev 19:11 is a little more direct: “Do not lie to one another”). At the very least, such a faith has never been truly tested.
“Doubts and skepticism after you have become a Christian is evil doing spiritual warfare against you and you need to do spiritual warfare against those attacks.”
Derrick … you, of all people, should understand the toll that mental-health challenges take on someone, even a believer. Even if you adhere to the school of thought that mental illness is nothing more than spiritual warfare masquerading as a physical illness (disclaimer: I have not ascertained one way or the other if Derrick does) you should know that such moments are why believers are told to come alongside those who are struggling. It is not the time to stand on the shore and watch to see if they can swim, and then to smirk and say “welp, they weren’t really believers” if they sink. Shame on you and any preacher who teaches or implies otherwise.
W. W. Jacobs: “I do, however, question whether a man who denies ever having faced such a struggle and/or denies even momentarily faltering at such a moment is conveniently ignoring Leviticus 19:11 (whereas the Big Ten says “thou shalt not bear false witness”, Lev 19:11 is a little more direct: “Do not lie to one another”).”
Zoe: Not excusing his behaviour, I would like to mention that some people don’t see themselves as liars. Simply, they aren’t lying. That is their internal world. They live in a fantasy world. And yes, they do deny reality and struggles. It’s very difficult for some people to let go of the fantasy because of real hurts, wounds and trauma. They live inside their own fantasy and here where religion (in this case the bible) is concerned, it can be used as part of the fantasy to appear authoritative when in fact it’s just spiritual bypassing.
I came back to finish this a little more. For him, you are not a believer. He can’t be corrected by using scripture because he is not wrong, ever wrong, etc. etc. Even if he agreed with your Christianity, he will not accept your correction because he is not wrong (in his own internal world.)
Just wanted to add a bit more to it for those who may be lurking.