A commenter on this blog, T34, asked the following question on the post titled, Is Christianity a Blood Cult?
I read a few of the articles [on this blog] and none of the titles seem to answer my question. Please know I [am]not an evangelist. I honestly am searching for answers. I want to know if Bruce has had any supernatural or spiritual (not religious) experiences or relationship with God or another? I would like to understand more why Bruce chose to be an outright atheist as opposed to just non-religious or agnostic. And if he has had any supernatural or spiritual experiences I’d like to know what they were and what he thinks of them now.
Several years ago, Matt Dillahunty, mentioned on The Atheist Experience the difficulty in defining the word “spiritual” or “spirituality.” Ask a hundred people to define these words and you will get 101 different answers. “Spiritual” to a Baptist is very different from the way a Catholic, Buddhist, Pagan, or humanist might define the word. T34 equates “spiritual” with “supernatural,” so I will proceed using that definition, understanding that there is no absolute textbook definition for these words. For example, a Charismatic Christian considers speaking in tongues to be “supernatural” experience. An Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) Christian, however, considers speaking in tongues a tool used by Satan to lead people astray.
Before I answer T34’s question, I do want to answer one claim that she makes: she suggests that supernatural and spiritual experiences are not religious. I don’t believe that at all. It is religion, in all its shapes and forms — organized or not — that gives life to supernatural and spiritual claims. Without religion, I doubt humans would have much need for such experiences.
My editor pointed out that non-religious people can and do have paranormal experiences. Are paranormal experiences such as “seeing” ghosts supernatural in nature? Maybe, but I suspect that if naturalism and science had a stronger hold on our thinking, thoughts of ghosts would likely fade away. I’m deliberately painting with BWAPB — Bruce’s Wide-Ass Paint Brush. I recognize that there could be some experiences that might not fit in the box I have constructed in this post. Unlikely, but possible.
I had a church piano player in Somerset who was certain that her dead lover (long story) appeared next to her when she played the piano. I never saw him, but she swore he was right there cheering her on as she played “Victory in Jesus.” Could her story be true? Sure, but not in the way some people may think it is. Her story is true in the sense that she “thinks” it is. In her mind, this man is very real, even though his dead body is planted six feet under in the nearby cemetery. Thus such things can be “true” without actually being factually and rationally true.
I was part of the Christian church for fifty years. While I spent my preschool years in Lutheran and Episcopal churches, once I started first grade in 1963, I attended Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Southern Baptist, and garden variety Evangelical churches. I spent twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan, pastoring my last church in 2003.
When I discuss the spiritual/supernatural experiences I have experienced in my life, these events must be understood in light of the sects I was raised in, what my pastors taught me, what I learned in Bible college, and my personal learning and observations as a Christian and as an Evangelical pastor. My understanding of what is spiritual/supernatural is socially, culturally, tribally, and environmentally conditioned. A Southern Baptist church can be located on the northwest corner of Main and High in Anywhere, Ohio, and a Pentecostal church located on the southeast corner of Main and High in the same town. Both preach Jesus as the virgin-born son of God, who came to earth, lived a sinless life, and died on the cross for our sins. Both preach that all of us are sinners in need of salvation, and that one must be born again to inherit the Kingdom of God. And both believe Satan is real, Hell is sure, and Donald Trump is the great white hope. Yet, when it comes to “experiencing” God, these churches wildly diverge from one another. The Pentecostals consider the Baptists dead and lifeless, lacking Holy Ghost power, while the Baptists consider their Pentecostal neighbors to be way too emotional; to have a screw loose. Both churches “experience” God in their own way, following in the footsteps of their parents, grandparents, and older saints who have come before them.
As a man who pastored several churches in desperate need of change, I heard on more than a few occasions church leaders and congregants say, when confronted with doing something new or different, “That’s not the way we do it!” Behaviors become deeply ingrained among Christian church members. Our forefathers did it this way, we do it this way, and we expect our children and grandchildren will do the same. A popular song in many Evangelical churches is the hymn, “I Shall Not be Moved.” The chorus says:
I shall not be, I shall not be moved.
I shall not be, I shall not be moved;
like a tree planted by the water,
I shall not be moved.
That chorus pretty well explains most churches. Whatever their beliefs and practices are, they “shall not be moved.” So it is when determining what are real “spiritual” or “supernatural” experiences.
As a Baptist, I believed the moment I was saved/born-again, that God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, came into my “heart” and lived inside of me, teaching me everything that pertains to life and godliness. It was the Holy Spirit who was my teacher and guide. It was the Holy Spirit who taught me the “truth.” It was the Holy Spirit who convicted me of sin. It was the Holy Spirit (God) who heard and answered my prayers. It was the Holy Spirit who directed every aspect of my life.
As a pastor, I typically preached a minimum of four sermons a week. I spent several full days a week — typically 20 hours a week — reading and studying the Biblical text, commentaries, and other theological tomes. As I put my sermons together, I sought God’s help to construct them in such a way that people would hear and understand what I had to say. Daily, I asked God to fill me with his presence and power, especially when I entered the pulpit to preach. I always spent time confessing my sins before preaching, believing it was vitally important for me to be “right” with God before I stood before my church and said, “Thus saith the Lord.”
I expected the Holy Spirit to take my words and use them to work supernaturally among those under the sound of my voice. I believed that it was God alone who could save sinners, convict believers of their sin, or bring “revival” to our church. I saw myself as helpless — without me, ye can do nothing, the Bible says — without the supernatural indwelling and empowerment of the Holy Spirit.
As a committed Christian, I was a frequent pray-er. I prayed for all sorts of things, from the trivial to things beyond human ability and comprehension. I believed that with God all things were possible. In the moment, I believed that God, through the work of the third part of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, was working supernaturally in my life, that of my family, and of my church. My whole life was a “spiritual” experience, of sorts. God was always with me, no matter where I went, what I said, or what I did, so how could it have been otherwise?
In November 2008, God, the Holy Spirit, along with all of his baggage, was expelled from my life. For the past sixteen years, I have taken the broom of reason, science, skepticism, and rational inquiry and swept the Christian God from every corner of my mind. While I wish I could say that that my mind is swept clean of God, dust devils remain, lurking in the deep corners and crevasses of my mind. All I know to do is keep sweeping until I can no longer see “God” lurking in the shadows.
T34 wants to know how I now view the “spiritual” and “supernatural” experiences from my past life as a Christian and Evangelical pastor. As an atheist, I know that these experiences were not, in any way, connected to God. I have concluded that the Christian God is a myth, that he/she/it is of human origin. If there is no God, then how do I “explain” the God moments I experienced in my life? Does Bruce, the atheist, have an explanation for what “God” did in his life for almost fifty years?
Sure. The answer to this question is not that difficult. I spent decades being indoctrinated by my parents, pastors, and professors in what they deemed was the “faith once delivered to the saints.” This indoctrination guaranteed the trajectory of my life, from a little redheaded boy who said he wanted to be a preacher when he grew up — not a baseball player, policeman, or trash truck driver, but a preacher — to a Bible college-trained man of God who pastored seven churches over twenty-five years in the ministry. I couldn’t have been anything other than a pastor.
And so it is with the “spiritual” and “supernatural” experiences I had in my life. My parents, churches, pastors, and professors modeled certain beliefs and practices to me. I “experienced” God the very same way these people did. Social and tribal conditioning determined how I would “experience” God, not God himself. He doesn’t exist, remember?
I sincerely believed that, at the time, God was speaking to me, God was leading me, and God was supernaturally working in and through my life. But just because I believed these things to be true, doesn’t mean they were. A better understanding of science has forced me to see that my past life was built upon a lie, a well-intended con. This is tough for me to admit. In doing so, I am admitting that much of my life was a waste of time. Sure, I did a lot of good for other people, but the “spiritual” and “supernatural” stuff? Nonsense. Nothing, but nonsense. And saying this, even today, is hard for me to do. It’s difficult and painful for me to admit that I wasted so much of my life in the pursuit of something that does not exist.
T34 asked why I “chose to be an outright atheist as opposed to just non-religious or agnostic.” I am not sure what an “outright” atheist is as opposed to an atheist. Remembering what I said about the connection between religion and the “spiritual” and “supernatural,” isn’t someone non-religious an atheist or an agnostic? While such people may not carry those labels, aren’t non-religious people those who do not believe in deities? If someone believes in a God of some sort, be it a personal deity or some sort of divine energy, they can’t properly, from my perspective, be considered non-religious.
Granted, there is a difference between people who are non-religious and people who are indifferent towards religion. An increasing number of Americans are indifferent towards religion. They don’t give a shit about religion, be it organized or not. I suspect that many of these NONES will eventually become agnostics and/or atheists.
I label myself this way:
I am agnostic on the God question. I am convinced that the extant deities are no gods at all; and that the Abrahamic God is a human construct. That said, I cannot know for certain whether, in the future, a deity might make itself known to us. I consider the probability of this happening to be .00000000000000000000001. Thus, I live my day-to-day life as an atheist — as if no deity exists. I see no evidence for the existence of any God, be it Jehovah, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, or a cast of thousands of other gods. The only time I “think” about God is when I am writing for this blog. Outside of my writing, I live a God-free life, as do my wife and three cats.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I want to quibble with the idea that spiritual always implies supernatural. I have sat on the eastern side of the Sierra Nevada mountains in California, watching the sun set over the mountain peaks with the peculiar mountain cloud formations painted in the most amazingly deep sunset colors, and had my jaw drop in awe. It takes my mind out of its day-to-day existence and creates a sense of connection with something utterly wonderful. But the connection is natural; I am just another member of a species that evolved into being on this planet. The awe is just how my brain works. And yet, because the experience nourishes my psyche in a very primal way, a way that I can’t recreate with my will or anyone’s will, I consider it a spiritual experience.
Standing on a Northern California ocean beach, watching waves and contemplating the vastness of the ocean and the complexity of life within it, is equally psyche-nourishing. So does trying, really trying to get my mind around Deep Time, getting glimpses of understanding of how long ago 100 million or 1 billion or whatever years ago actually was.
YMMV. No gods/religion/supernaturalness/mystery required.
Violent prison porn deleted
Even when I was an Evangelical Christian, I don’t I witnessed or experienced anything that might be called “supernatural” or “paranormal”—unless you count speaking in tongues and other phenomena in those categories.
Today, as a longtime atheist, I still use the words “spiritual “ and “spirit “ in something like the senses Karen means them. There are events and phenomena that happen due to reasons and forces we don’t understand. At one time I would have said, “Well, that must mean that God exists.” But now I see them simply as what I can’t explain—whether because of my own inarticulateness (Is that a word?) or because there simply isn’t an answer. Probably the closest I’ve come to a “supernatural “ or “paranormal “ experience are in my dreams—which are the plays, if you will, of my subconscious.
If it see a sunrise or sunset on the ocean or some other splendid display, I allow myself to be taken out of myself, if only for a moment. I guess that is “spiritual “ for me.
As for religion: In previous comments I’ve mentioned H.L. Mencken’s “Memorial Service.” (https://homepages.uc.edu/~martinj/Philosophy%20and%20Religion/Atheism/H%20L%20Menchen%20-%20Memorial%20Service%20-%20Grave-yard%20of%20dead%20gods.docx) It clearly shows that every belief system based upon a belief in one or more deities—which is about as good a definition of religion as I can muster—has a cultural context and without it, the religion is not possible. Nobody believes in Zeus or Huitzilopotxhli, not because God or Allah is the “true” deity, but rather because nobody lives by the cultural norms of the ancient Greeks or Aztecs.
I don’t like the terms “spiritual” or “soul” because there are too many competing definitions/usages of these words that are often in conflict. What I do understand is that the human brain goes through many chemical and electrical processes that help us function as higher-ordered thinkers. The human brain has evolved a variety of ways that help us process information quickly. Pattern recognition, for example – we look at stars and “connect the dots” to identify patterns that remind us of familiar objects. Now, those stars we “connect” as constellations are not, in fact, connected to each other. We see them and assign meaning that doesn’t exist, and we create a narrative of causation (astrology) in order to try to explain concepts or to “predict” the future. We look at the sky and pick out shapes of clouds and say, oh, that looks like an alligator. It isn’t an alligator – it’s a mass of gas – but we like to identify it as something familiar.
I think supernatural events are much the same way – our brains trying to sort through a plethora of information and assigning meaning or cause to events we can’t explain yet. A trained scientist may assess an event we don’t understand as something that’s been studied and understood in a particular field,but those not educated in that field aren’t aware of the actual explanation and will use familiar objects/explanations to devise a story.
As far as experiencing wonder or awe at nature or concepts, I don’t view that as spiritual and certainly not supernatural. If someone wants to define wonder and awe as spiritual or supernatural, that’s fine, but I prefer not to use those words for lack of agreed-upon definitions.
My entire life, even before I was born, was based on fairy tales called supernatural experiences. My dad had a supernatural story that defined every single reason for each of his life choices. He was addicted to cigarettes and quit immediately when he got saved! (Not.) He locked himself away and told God he wouldn’t leave until he got a word, and God revealed his entire life! (But God told him never to tell the details.) He spent hours getting downloads from God! (Gleaned from the dozens of books he read.) He saw food being multiplied! God wrote in the sky with red letters! God resurrected a lady from the dead! (Turns out he got into a dick swinging challenge with the local prophet’s stories…)
When I prayed and cried for experiences of my own, I got nothing. I tried to please everyone to become worthy enough. I was conditioned to be receptive to EVERYTHING when we got into Charismania, so falling out and feeling ecstatic was a release and such a relief. The highs were incredibly addictive.
Once the lies I grew up on started surfacing, though, everything fell to pieces. And I’m talking lies that people, who I trusted, had told for decades as basic fact. And I had repeated them to be a good witness. My life was all based on lies. I’ve had some anger issues, to say the least. But I’m not going to wallow (as long as I can afford my prescriptions anyway).
I’m a truth seeker and know I will never have all the answers when it comes to knowledge or personal experience. But I think that’s one of the best things about being human. Are humans superior to other creatures? Heck NO. We’re destroying our own planet as we speak.
Are we capable of actually doing good? Looking out for each other? Making choices that are positive for others and not just ourselves? Absolutely. Will we survive another millennium? If not, we deserve to die out. Will we sit by and let the vulnerable die out today and tomorrow?
What good are spiritual experiences if we don’t actually change anything for the better in this lifetime? What good is belief without empathy and action? What good is an asshole with spiritual experiences who couldn’t give a shit about integrity? That’s the things I want to know.
I’ve had a number of occasions in my life where it felt as though I were experiencing something supernatural, especially several times playing sports. The experience can be very disconcerting at the time, even to the extent that when they happened I actually thought they were supernatural. Once time passed, however, I understood that these experiences were nothing more than either my mind playing tricks or, in the case of the sports, becoming hyper concentrated in a way that seldom happens during other activities (I think it often gets referred to as ‘in the zone’).
I don’t discount the supernatural in the way apologists like to claim of atheists, but I am yet to see either compelling evidence as to its existence or else a credible explanation for why it can exist. Of course that’s the beauty of supernatural claims. By definition, the claimant can point out that they don’t lend themselves to normal explanations because then they’d be natural and not supernatural! The counter to this is that if a supernatural event is such that it has an effect in our natural world (like the countless thousands of miraculous cures people claim) then it makes itself available to natural methods of investigation. When I read a peer reviewed article in the Lancet that deals with one of these miraculous cures (such as a regrown limb, or broken bone healed overnight) and saying that no natural explanation is possible, then I’ll begin to take such claims more seriously.