Recently, Pastor Tommy McMurtry, pastor of Liberty Baptist Church in Rock Falls, Illinois, said:
The atheist religion always is a supporter of perversion. They are always the biggest supporters of the LGBT, the trans rights, and all that because it is an anti-God religion. And unfortunately for them, the preaching of the truth that we do exposes the filthiness of their lifestyle, the filthiness of their belief system, and they don’t like that. They just hate light. That’s all there is to it.
My recent interaction with a man who was a teenager and married young adult in two churches I pastored, raised a regret that I have long had about my ministerial career and its deleterious effect on people who called me “Preacher” or “Pastor Bruce.” (Please see Dear Terry — Part One and Dear Terry — Part Two.) Thousands of people sat under my preaching at one time or the other. Hundreds of others were active congregants with whom I had closer relationships. And a handful of people — not many — were friends.
For many years, I was a hardcore, hellfire and brimstone, pulpit-pounding, King James-waving Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preacher. While my theology and practice moderated over time, I was still quite conservative theologically and politically. It wasn’t until late in my ministerial career that I made a decided leftward turn towards the social gospel and liberal politics.
My regret comes from the influence I had over people during my IFB/conservative days; how my preaching and teaching deeply formed and instructed church members; how my preaching and teaching caused incalculable psychological harm (and led to physical harm and abuse when parents put into practice my instruction on discipline). Many of the people I once pastored are either no longer Christians or have moved on to gentler, kinder expressions of faith. I am glad that they have progressed and matured, even if I disagree with their sincerely held beliefs. I am not an antitheist. I don’t hate God or Christianity, in general. I am friends with people who are Christians. On Monday, I had lunch with a man who pastors an Evangelical church in Bryan, Ohio. We had a wonderful time. On Sunday, I will have dinner with three friends of mine: a former Lutheran pastor, a United Church of Christ pastor, and a Buddhist. We have been meeting together for years. We eat, drink, and talk about all sorts of things — including religion. I am quite comfortable having discussions with religious people as long as they don’t view me as their “enemy” or some sort of target for evangelization. I have no interest in having discussions with Bible-thumpers or Evangelical zealots. If such people want to interact with me, they can do so through my blog. Beware, the blog dog bites. 🙂
Some former congregants such as Terry haven’t moved a lick belief-wise over the years. Terry is attending a church that has beliefs similar to the churches he attended when I was his pastor. His worldview has evolved very little, if at all. I know other former church members who have similarly “progressed.” Oh, they might have made changes to peripheral social beliefs on dress, alcohol, or entertainment, but their core beliefs are similar or identical to what they were when I was their pastor. I feel bad about this, even though I know, as my therapist frequently reminds me, that their belief choices are not my fault or my responsibility. I understand this from an intellectual perspective, BUT, it is hard for me to not lament that I didn’t teach them better; that I didn’t expose them to the depth and breadth of Christian faith and theology; that I didn’t encourage them to think skeptically and rationally. I know that I couldn’t do these things because I didn’t know any better myself. I was a product of a lifetime of religious conditioning and indoctrination. That said, I have never been able to shake the regret I have over my IFB past. I am sure some of you understand exactly what I am talking about.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Several days ago, I received a Facebook Messenger message from a former church member named Terry. Terry was a teenager and young adult in two churches I pastored: Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio, and Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio. You can read my response to Terry’s message here.
I thought my post was thoughtful and polite, cognizant of the friendship and professional relationship I had in the 1980s. I tried to focus on our shared experiences instead of giving Terry what is humorously called “The Bruce Gerencser Treatment®. Had I viewed Terry as just another Bible-thumping, filled-with-certainty Fundamentalist Christian, I would have just said “sigh” (please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”) or told him to fuck off. But, I value our past shared experiences and friendship we once had, so I decided to respond in a way that would hopefully encourage engagement and, perhaps, show Terry that he might want to rethink what he wrote to me.
Terry would have none of that. Looking at his profile revealed that he has, at least recently, been attending Full Armor of God Baptist Church in Pataskala — a King James-only Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) congregation. Whether Terry regularly attends this church, I do not know. That said, I felt bad when I saw Terry was attending an IFB church, having moved very little theologically or spiritually since his days as a teenager at Emmanuel Baptist Church. Certainly, he is free to worship and believe as he wants. Freedom of religion, right? But, where Terry attends church and who his pastor is might explain his abrasive and hostile response towards me. Or, he just may be an asshole, regardless of his religious background. I haven’t spoken to Terry since the late 80s, so I don’t know what kind of man, husband, father, and grandfather he has become.
What follows is my response to Terry. I doubt I will make any headway with him, but I hope I can educate him about atheism and pushback on some of the false claims he makes.
So what it boils down to is you believe now that nothing created everything. That’s comical. I suppose we came ashore out of the water with gills and a tail and later shed those for lungs and two legs and feet.
Do you have a science education? What do you really know about evolution, archeology, cosmology, and other science disciplines? I am the first to admit that I don’t know a lot about science. Much like you, religion neutered my thinking about science, wrongly teaching me that the Bible is a science textbook — that whatever the Bible says about science is true. Over the years, I have worked hard to fix my ignorance, but I still don’t know much about science.
I do know this much: the universe is not 6, 027 years old; the universe was not created in six literal twenty-four hour days; humans and dinosaurs did not exist at the same time; the earth was not destroyed by a universal flood. These are scientific facts, as any cursory reading of biology, archeology, geology, and cosmology shows.
Terry, what science books have you read over the past forty years? Not religious books or books written by Evangelical apologists — actual books by experts in their relevant fields? Or is your entire understanding of the universe based on what some unknown authors wrote centuries ago before science was even a thing; or it is based solely on what a non-science-educated preacher (such as the Bruce Gerencser of yesteryear) told you from the pulpit? Regardless, I find your certainty troubling; that you are willing to believe things that you haven’t studied or know anything about.
Evolution is a scientific fact. It best explains the existence of our biological world. Evolution and other science disciplines take us back to the Big Bang, 13.8 billion years ago. The question, of course, is what happened before the Big Bang. None of us knows. There are numerous theories about what happened, but young (or old) earth creationism is not one of them. Creationism is religious dogma, not science.
Let me encourage you to read Why Evolution is True, by Dr. Jerry Coyne. Written at a popular level, I think you will find Dr. Coyne’s book to be an excellent primer and explanation of evolution. If you truly want to discuss evolution and creationism, I’m game. More than a few of the readers of this blog have university-level science backgrounds. I am sure they would love to have a friendly, thoughtful discussion with you about these issues.
You bring up creating something out of nothing, a common creationist canard. Keep in mind, you face the same problem: where did God come from? If everything requires a creator, so does God — your God, or any other deity, for that matter. The fact remains that none of us knows for certain what happened before the Big Bang. I am content to say, “I don’t know.” I am more focused on the present, the here and now. The only time I talk about the subject is when Evangelicals such as yourself ignorantly think that atheism and evolution are one and the same.
Atheism is a simple, one-sentence statement about the existence of deities. Wikipedia describes atheism this way:
Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
As you can see, atheism is “an absence of belief in the existence of deities.” That’s it. The origin of the universe has nothing to do with atheism. Sure, most atheists also believe evolution best explains our biological world, but this belief is not a requirement to be an atheist. Atheists can and do have all sorts of beliefs. Some atheists are right-wing Republicans, believe in conspiracy theories, and are every bit as tribalistic as Fundamentalist Christians.
I love how you bash me on your blog and bash the community where I live and all your cronies chime right in.
Terry, I am perplexed by how butt-hurt you are. Did you expect me to just say nothing or to fall on my face in repentance and tears, and say, Terry, you are right. I found your Bible verse memes so convicting that I unfriended you. That’s not going to happen. If you didn’t want a response from me, you shouldn’t have messaged me.
I can’t find any place in my post where I bashed you as a person. In fact, I went out of my way to be friendly and polite, valuing our past relationship and experiences. As far as what I wrote about Buckeye Lake, what did I say that was factually incorrect? In the 1980s and 1990s, the village of Buckeye Lake proper (not North Bank or other lake edge communities where upper-middle-class, rich people live) was rife with poverty and rundown properties — mostly rentals, some of which were owned by slumlords. Most housing was converted cottages — 900-1,200 square feet in size. The poverty rate was high, with a sizeable percentage of residents on public assistance.
You seem to forget that I worked for the village of Buckeye Lake for three years as a grant administrator, workfare program manager, and building code enforcement officer. I administrated federal and state grants that were used for litter control enforcement and property rehabilitation and remediation. During my time at Buckeye Lake, my workers razed over fifty abandoned, shuttered cottages, the start of the community renewal that took place afterward.
I also oversaw the village’s workfare and court-offender work programs. Over 100 people worked for me every month, picking up roadside trash, reclaiming illegal dumping grounds, and tearing down abandoned houses. I am quite proud of what we did to make Buckeye Lake a better place to live.
Cronies: a close friend. Synonyns: brother, buddy, chum, pal, sidekick. I didn’t read any overtly harsh criticism of you from my “cronies.” Maybe the real issue is that your Fundamentalist butt cheeks are chapped or you expected to be able to preach AT me without any pushback or challenge. Regardless, how about we try to have an adult conversation, Terry. Have questions? Ask away. Want to politely challenge my beliefs? Please do so. Or you can keep rubbing Vasoline on your ass.
As far as asking you questions about your family you never gave me an opportunity to ask you anything before unfriending me.
Terry, I pared down my Facebook Friends list more two years ago, so we were “friends” before that. You had plenty of time to ask me questions before that, but you chose not to. That’s not my problem. I chose to have a small friend list of people who actually regularly interact with me. Neither of us interacted with the other, so that’s the reason I unfriended you. I am sorry that my doing so offended you in some way.
Here’s your chance now: ask me whatever you want. I will gladly answer whatever questions you might have. But, if all you want to do is preach at me, I have no interest in further engagement with you. Life is too short to involve myself in banal, fruitless discussions. Honest, sincere questions are always welcome. If that is what you want, I am game. Ask away and I will do the best I can to answer your questions.
You say you don’t remember if we were friends on Facebook or not but you can remember me as a friend from many years ago funny isn’t.
In other words, you are calling me a liar. Evidently, you must value Facebook or get some sort of existential importance from it, but I don’t. The ONLY reason I have a Facebook account is for my blog. Some readers prefer to read my blog on Facebook, so I oblige them. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have a Facebook account. As it is, I rarely post on my Facebook wall, and when I do I post articles and photos about family and cats. I reserve discussions about religion and politics for my Facebook business page or my blog. My friends list is reserved for people I regularly interact with, be they family, friends, or blog readers. I could have thousands of Facebook friends overnight if I chose to have them, but I don’t.
As far as my memory is concerned, your accusation reveals that you know nothing about me. If we were actually friends or you were a blog reader, you would have known that I have serious health problems; that I have gastroparesis and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI) — incurable stomach/bowel diseases. I also have fibromyalgia — a disease that affects muscles and nerves — osteoporosis, and degenerative spine disease:
I live with constant, unrelenting, debilitating pain, from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. I am nauseous all the time, and vomiting is common. Throw in diabetes and high blood pressure, and, well, I have plenty on my plate physically.
Because of my pain (which I take multiple medications to control), I typically sleep in 1-2 hour segments. I am fatigued and tired every moment of every day of my life. As a result, my short term memory is not what it used to be. Besides, I am almost sixty-seven years old. Memory issues are common. I tend to have a sharp memory when it comes to things that happened years ago, but not with current or recent events. Just ask Polly. She will tell you everything you need to know about my memory issues. Or you can just keep calling me a liar.
There’s nothing “funny” about your response to me. I find it sad that you would choose to treat me this way, especially since, as far as I know, I did nothing but befriend and help you. Perhaps your religion is getting in the way of you being a decent human being. Ponder all the ways you could have responded to me, yet you chose to be judgmental and argumentative. Your choice, but I am not sure what you hoped to gain. You have burnt whatever relationship we once had to the ground, and for what? To prove to yourself that you are “right?” To put me in my place? To put a good word in for Jesus? If so, this means you aren’t interested in fostering a renewed friendship with me; you just wanted to score points in the Christian vs. Atheist game.
You knew we were friends on Facebook but you unfriended me because of my love for a risen savior who is sitting on the right hand of God. One day you will bow before him and tell yourself how big of fool you really are.
Again, you are calling me a liar. You have no evidence for your claim, yet you continue to make it. Why is that? I told you the truth. You can accept it, or not. I don’t give a shit either way. You and I are no longer friends, and you seem to want to attack my character, so I hope you will forgive me for not wanting anything to do with you. If and when you can be a decent human being, let me know, and I will be glad to interact with you. I am NOT the enemy, your enemy, or anyone else’s enemy. I am a man you once knew that has different religious (and political) beliefs from you. Is this how you treat everyone you disagree with? Or perhaps my story bothers you, and instead of trying to understand it, you lash out in angry disrespect. Rage away, Terry, but I will not engage you further.
Thousands of people read my blog every day, and some of them are Christians. I am also friends with Christians on Facebook. I am confident that what I believe is true; that the Bible is not inerrant and infallible; that the central claims of Christianity are false; that Jesus was not divine; that Jesus was not a miracle worker; that Jesus was not born of a virgin or resurrected from the dead; that Jesus was an apocalyptic Jewish preacher who was executed by the Roman government for crimes against the state, end of story.
I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years. I spent twenty-five years pastoring churches in Ohio, Michigan, and Texas, before leaving the ministry in 2005 and deconverting in 2008. All told, I preached over 4,000 sermons and spent 20,000+ hours reading and studying the Bible. I know the B-i-b-l-e inside and out. That you think a Bible verse meme would convict me in some way or cause me to unfriend you is ludicrous. The Internet is awash in memes posted by Evangelical zealots. Check out my Facebook business page (and click follow) if you want to see my mockery of them. I don’t make fun of them out of fear. I mock them because they are silly, often ignorant, and more often than not promote heterodox or heretical beliefs. If you want to have a serious discussion with me, Terry, I am more than willing to do so. I will gladly answer any question or challenge you might have. However, if all you want to do is cast stones and call me a liar, I hope you will understand if I tell you to go fornicate with yourself.
I wish you well, Terry. I shall always remember (I hope) the good times you and I shared. I can see beyond your rigid Fundamentalist beliefs, choosing to focus on the wonderful experiences we once had. If you can’t or won’t do that, that’s on you.
Bruce
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Over the past seventeen years, I have received thousands of emails, phone calls, text messages, social media messages, and snail mail letters from (primarily) Evangelical Christians. When I first started blogging in 2007, I decided to use my real name and make myself available to anyone who wanted to contact me. I have, on occasion, regretted doing so.
The majority of the emails and messages I receive are hostile, violent, and argumentative. Laden with personal attacks, these contacts are meant to judge, correct, belittle me, or put me in my place. Seventeen years of such emails and messages have left me largely immune to such ill-bred, brutish behavior. I read every email I receive, answering them as I can. (Currently, I am three months behind on answering emails.) I pay close attention to emails from family, friends, former parishioners, and regular readers of this blog. I feel a sense of obligation to these folks, so I try to prioritize their correspondence.
Some emails and messages warrant a public response, as I will give with the message I received today. The following Facebook Messenger message came from a man who was a teen and young adult in two different churches I pastored: Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio (1981-1983), and Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio (1983-1994).
I am generally polite and patient in my responses to former church members. I am well aware of how my story and deconversion trouble and upset people who once called me “Preacher” or “Pastor Bruce.” They know me from a time and place long ago that is very different from where I am today. Not morally or ethically; not personality-wise. I was twenty-four years old when I met Terry; now I am almost sixty-seven. Lots of water under, over, and around the metaphorical bridge, but to a large degree I am the same person today as I was forty-plus years ago. I am a kind, decent, and thoughtful man. Not perfect. I can be temperamental, argumentative, and opinionated, but I have become less so, telling Polly, my partner, the other day, in a moment of deep, dark depression, that most of the things I obsess over or that aggravate me really don’t matter. The danger, of course, for depressives, is “nothing matters” can quickly turn into suicide. That, so far, has not been the case for me, but I do recognize that not much matters beyond the people we love.
In the early days of this blog, I took to heart the nasty, hateful things Evangelicals said to me. Their words caused deep wounds, so much so that I would stop blogging. I would delete my social media accounts and even change my email address so people couldn’t contact me. Thanks to extensive and ongoing therapy, I have (most of the time) learned to handle such people. I no longer let people such as Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, Elliot, Revival Fires, Silence of Mind, and other caustic, abrasive so-called Christians like them get under my skin. I don’t know them; they don’t know me; their words really don’t matter. They can go fornicate with themselves for all I care. They are little more than pissants, quickly dispatched with little thought or concern. However, when it comes to people with whom I had a significant personal relationship, I try to hear them out and respond accordingly. So it is with Terry, whose message I respond to below.
Here’s what Terry wrote to me (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
Hey Bruce I’m not sure why u unfriended me. I still respect you and love u in Christ. I’m saddened you turned your back on Christianity. You know what Jesus did for us on that cross. Maybe u unfriended me because my bible versus was talking to your heart and the adversary turned u against me. I’m praying for you and Polly. God Bless
Dear Terry,
You and I go way back. I first met you in the early 1980s when you were a sophomore student at Lakewood High School and I was the assistant pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake. My primary responsibility was working with junior high and high school students. I have many fond memories from the three years I spent at the church. As you may remember, the youth department quickly grew, reaching a high attendance of 90 people. The majority of church attendees were youth group participants. Unfortunately, when Polly and I left Emmanuel to start a new church in Somerset, attendance dropped by seventy percent. I always felt bad that this happened, but many of the teens had a close attachment to me. One of the reasons for this is that Polly and I, along with our two young sons and foster son (and later foster daughter) moved to Buckeye Lake to be close to the people we were pastoring. We moved into a ramshackle cottage a few blocks from where you lived at the time. Buckey Lake wasn’t the greatest place to live, but I felt it important to live with and among the people I ministered to. Polly’s mom refused to move from Newark to Buckeye Lake, not wanting to live around poor people or “welfare bums.” (Note for readers: Buckeye Lake, a community of around 3,000 people, was once home to an amusement park. Most of the housing was originally meant for seasonal use, but during WW II, much of it was converted to year-round use. Most of the homes were small, and of poor construction. The poverty rate was quite high compared to the surrounding area.)
You and I spent a lot of time together. You attended church every week, often bringing friends to the services. You were active in the youth group. I have many fond memories of you personally, and the youth group as a whole. I am sure you remember the lock-in we held at the Newark Y. You and your schoolmates worked hard to invite your unchurched friends and acquaintances to the event. If I remember correctly, more than 200 students bought tickets for the lock-in. The bring-your-own-team basketball tournament was the highlight of the night, for me.
So many memories . . . hunting rabbits together, the basketball program I sponsored at Jacktown Elementary School, playing tackle football and softball, attending your baseball games, and trying the best I could to help you navigate life. I performed your wedding ceremony — a double wedding at the Dawes Arboretum pond. After you got married and Polly and I moved on to a new church, you and your family attended Somerset Baptist occasionally, but distance prevented you from being a regular attendee, and eventually, we drifted apart. That said, I always considered you a friend.
I have given you this short history lesson to remind you of all the shared experiences we have. It would have been wonderful to talk with you about these things. I would have loved to hear about your family; your children and grandchildren. It would have been nice if you had asked me how I was doing, or inquired about Polly, our six adult children, or our sixteen grandchildren. Instead, you decided to skip the pleasantries and polite discourse and go on a religious rant, complete with a conspiracy theory about why I unfriended you on Facebook. You could have asked all sorts of questions about my deconversion, but you didn’t. Imagine if we had met face-to-face somewhere in Newark, after not seeing each other in over thirty years. Would you have said these things to me? Of course not. We would have talked about old times, sharing a warm embrace — a reminder of the friendship we once held dear. Evidently, all that matters to you is passing judgment on my life and putting in a word for Jesus.
Concerning Facebook, we may have been “friends,” but I don’t remember it. Two years ago, I pared over a thousand people from my friends list, choosing only to befriend people with whom I had regular interaction. I suspect you were one of many people I unfriended. I assure you that my unfriending you had nothing to do with your content or the fact that you posted Bible verses to your wall. What I find amusing (and oh so sad) is that you think that your posted verses were “talking to my heart,” and that I couldn’t handle the conviction, so I unfriended you. First, I don’t have a heart, and neither do you — at least not the one mentioned in the Bible. Second, why would words from an ancient religious text — one that I know inside and out and have read cover to cover numerous times and spent 20,000+ hours studying — bother me in the least? Third, I am an atheist, so I don’t believe in the existence of gods, including yours. It stands to reason, then, that I also don’t believe in the existence of “the adversary” (Satan). That you think I “turned against you” is silly. Few friendships last a lifetime, ours included. I haven’t talked to you in years, yet, suddenly, your Bible verse memes were used by Satan to turn me against you? Surely, you can see how silly this is. You are trying to judge my motivations when you have no reason or warrant to do so.
Terry, you say you love and respect me, in Christ. All I hear is the tired, worn-out Christian cliches I have heard countless times before. What in your message is loving and respectful? So many things you could have said or asked, but, instead, you chose to preach at me and remind me of what “Jesus did for us on the cross.” Did you think I didn’t know that already, or consider the fact that I don’t believe as you do; that, to me, Jesus is a dead man who lies buried somewhere in an unknown Judean grave?
People change. Beliefs change. I once was a Christian, and now I am not. If you really want to know why I am no longer a Christian, please check out the posts found here. Better yet, ask me. Don’t preach at me or condemn me. Ask . . . Better yet, dwell on the fond memories of yesteryear; of the times spent playing basketball or hunting rabbits; of the times we spent talking about life and the challenges you were facing. So many good things to remember and talk about. Why choose to preach at me about the one thing for which we have no common ground? Did you think your words would convict me of the error of my way or magically bring me back to Jesus? If so, you missed the mark. I am fully persuaded that the central claims of Christianity are untrue. If that means you can’t accept me as a fellow human being, someone who befriended you and always treated you well, so be it. I’m content to remember the times we once had.
I wish you and your family well, Terry.
Bruce
Other letters to former parishioners:
Dear Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Repost from 2015. Edited, rewritten, and corrected.
Have you ever read an Evangelical or Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church advertisement or sign that says, First Baptist Church, The Friendliest Church in Town or We LOVE People? No one ever bothers to ask, so are all the other congregations in town churches that hate people and are unfriendly?
Churches who talk about their love for people and how friendly they are sincerely think these advertising slogans are true. To them, shaking hands with visitors, making them feel at home, and letting them know where the nursery and bathrooms are shows that they are a people-loving, friendly church. The question I ask is this: WHY does this or that church love people and befriend newcomers? What is their motive for being so loving and friendly? Most often, their motive is to win lost souls to Jesus, resulting in increased attendance. And more people=more money in the offering plate. Like any business, their goal is to gain customers, increase revenues, and expand the business.
Ask any Evangelical pastor or church member if their church loves people and they will say, Of course we do! We love people like Jesus loved people. We love our neighbors just like we love ourselves. But this is no disinterested love. This is a love that has an ulterior motive. It is a love that has conversion and assimilation as its goal. Just ask them if a lesbian woman in a same-sex marriage can join their church or teach Sunday school and you will find out quickly how little they actually love other people.
Their Jesus is a Jesus who loves people so much that he does not leave them where they are or as they are. Their Jesus changes and transforms people, so their objective is to love and befriend people so that they might be saved (changed and transformed) and become a part of their church. That’s what their Jesus is all about, making more church members. (Matthew 28:19,20) Sounds crass, but any Evangelicals pastor who tells you church attendance numbers don’t matter is lying.
Compare Evangelical love for people to love that accepts people as they are, where they are. There’s a big difference between the Evangelical love for people and loving and befriending people with no expectation of return. In some liberal/mainline churches such an approach to love and friendship exists, but I’ve never seen it in Evangelical or IFB churches. And I just know a commenter is going to scream that THEIR church is different. Sure it is.
Once an unaware newcomer is friended and loved to Jesus and made a part of the church, it is on to new people to pretend-friend. For those taken in by the friendliest church in town advertising campaign, they quickly learn that the church is no more or less friendly than any other church or social group. In every church there are kind, decent, friendly people. There are also people, sometimes the pastor, who are mean, nasty, and unfriendly. Sadly, in churches that are Fundamentalist, their initial friendliness quickly dissipates and is replaced with legalism, demands to conform, and a quick unfriending if you do not fall in line. Ask anyone who has deconverted: what happened to all the friends they had while attending the friendliest church in town? Once people leave their churches, they often find out how unfriendly their churches really are. They find out that friendship was a lure, a scam. The true nature of a church is revealed by how it treats those who leave the church, regardless of their reason for leaving.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Polly and I are re-watching The Wire on MAX — arguably the best series of all time. One episode featured a scene from Orlando’s Gentlemen’s Club — a strip club operated by Orlando, but owned by Baltimore drug dealer Avon Barksdale.
The scene under discussion took place in Orlando’s dressing room for the strippers. On the wall was a sign that reminded me of my days as a dorm student at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan:
As you can see, someone marked out the six and wrote a one. 🙂 If you have ever been to a strip club, you would see that the one-inch rule better reflects reality, and in venues where lap dances are given, the distance number is actually zero. (Please see Short Stories: The Preacher Goes to the XXX Movie House.)
The sign got me thinking about my days as a dorm student at Midwestern. The college had a six-inch rule too. Dorm students were forbidden from getting closer than six inches to the opposite sex. Breaking this rule could result in expulsion from college. Please read Thou Shalt Not Touch: The Six-Inch Rule, if you have not already done so.
Much like the sign at Orlando’s Gentlemen’s Club, the six-inch rule (the width of a hymnbook) was universally ignored by dorm students. The rule was strictly followed when at school or in public dorm spaces. However, away from the college, say on a double date, the rule was cast aside for normal, healthy heterosexual experiences. Polly and I did not kiss each other until we had been dating for four months. We did the dirty deed during Christmas break while I was visiting Polly at her parent’s home in Newark, Ohio. And once we tasted the forbidden fruit, there was no going back. While we were virgins on our wedding day, more than a few students couldn’t wait, rounding third and sliding into home before saying “I do.”
I don’t know of a dorm couple who didn’t break the six-inch rule. Some got caught and were either campused (lost dating privileges) or expelled, but most couples learned how to play the game (and who to double date with) and escaped punishment. Polly and I certainly feared getting caught and being expelled, but the six-inch rule was no match for raging hormones.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Repost from 2015. Edited, rewritten, and corrected.
Many Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches advertise themselves as “old-fashioned” churches. Many IFB preachers call themselves “old-fashioned” preachers. What do they mean when they say they are an old-fashioned church or an old-fashioned preacher?
An old-fashioned church is one that yearns for the past — usually the 1950s. In their mind, if society and Christianity would return to the 1950s all would be well. In the 1950s, Blacks knew their place, women were barefoot and pregnant, birth control was hard to come by, abortion was illegal, homosexuals and atheists were in the closet, and Joseph McCarthy terrorized Americans with attempts to root out communism. In the 1950s, we fought a war against communism, teachers still prayed and read the Bible in school, creationism was considered good science, and Christianity controlled the public space.
Then came the rebellious 1960s and 1970s, and everything changed. Sixty years later, Blacks no longer know their place, Whites are becoming a minority, couples no longer get married, women have access to birth control, LGBTQ people and atheists are out of the closet, a Kenyan-born Muslim socialist communist black man was president, abortion is legal in some states, prayer and Bible reading in school are banned, creationism is considered religious dogma, same-sex marriage is legal, and Christianity is no longer given a preferential seat at the head of the cultural table.
From the Fundamentalist Christian’s perspective, I readily understand why people yearn for the old-fashioned days of the 1950s. The 1950s were a time when their brand of Christianity was the norm. Now they are fighting to be heard. Thousands of church members have left, seeking out the friendlier confines of generic, hip Evangelical churches. Instead of hard preaching against sin, Christians clamor for pastors who will “feed” them and minister to their felt needs. Most of all, they want to be entertained. Nones and atheists are increasing in number, and more and more people consider themselves spiritual or not religious. Pluralism and secularism are on the rise, and cultural Christianity is the norm and not the exception.
So what’s an old-fashioned Baptist church like? Their services are quite traditional; traditional meaning as it was in the 1950s. The focus is on “hard” preaching, often from the King James Version of the Bible. The goal is to convert sinners and strengthen church members so they can withstand the wiles of the devil and pressure from the “world.” Everything the old-fashioned Baptist church does is a throwback to yesteryear — an era when preachers preached hard, hymns were sung, altar calls were given, couples stayed married, women saved themselves for marriage and the kitchen, and the Christian church was the hub around which the community revolved.
Millions of Americans attend some sort of an old-fashioned church, even if the Baptist name is not over the front door. They love the respite their church gives them from the evil, sinful, atheistic world they live in. They love the certainty they hear in their pastor’s sermons. They are glad to be a part of a group that thinks just like they do. For those who desire to live in the 1950s, an old-fashioned church fits the bill. It heals their angst and gives them peace. It does not matter if their beliefs are true or whether their practices accurately reflect the 1950s. People seeking and finding value, hope, peace, and direction do not require or need truth. All they require is faith, and their belief that their “old-fashioned” version of Christianity is true. This is the power of myth.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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That’s what faggots deserve, is the death penalty! And they should do it publicly for everybody to see.
What does God say the homos deserve? In Leviticus 20:13, a famous verse, it says, ‘If a man also lie with a man as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.’ That’s what faggots deserve.”
Every single sodomite, every single homosexual should get the electric chair. And they should do it publicly for everybody to see, so that they know that’s what happens to these freaks! These rapists, these child molesters.
They are God-haters. It’s the reason why they’re even like that.
You know, a couple of my friends in the New IFB, they got in hot water because they said that they should line up all the faggots and, you know, and put them in front of a firing squad. I think that’s too easy. I think they should get the electric chair, make it a little more painful.
— Robert Larson, Bible Believers Baptist Church in Union Gap, Washington
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Several years ago, I was interviewed for the Preacher Boys podcast by Eric Skwarczynski. The primary purpose of Eric’s podcast is to expose abuse within the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. Eric and I share a common purpose when it comes to sexual abuse and clergy misconduct in IFB churches, so I was more than happy to lend my voice to his noble cause.
At the end of the show, Eric asked me whether I thought the IFB church movement could be reformed. I told him I didn’t think it could be reformed, and that I hoped to be alive when the IFB church drew its last breath. I want to be the person standing at the bedside with a pillow in hand, smothering the last breath out of a cultic religious movement that has caused incalculable harm. I have seen first-hand (and participated in) the carnage caused by IFB churches, colleges, and pastors. I have talked to and corresponded with countless people whose marriages, families, and personal lives were ruined in the name of the IFB God. The psychological wounds and scars run deep. The widening exposure of abuse within the IFB church movement is a sign that people are no longer willing to be cowed into silence by men who value protecting their reputations and their ministries more than they do victims/survivors. This exposure is in its infancy, so we can expect to see more and more abuse stories come forth in the days, months, and years ahead.
While it is certainly true that some IFB churches and pastors have “reformed,” I have found that the changes that they have made are largely cosmetic. I don’t know of an IFB church that embraces progressive theology, liberal social values, or inclusivism. Big change in “reformed” IFB churches usually means they use translations other than the KJV, use drums, have praise and worship teams, allow women to wear pants, and permit men to have hair over their ears. Real “reformists” now let congregants go to movie theaters, drink beer from time to time, or read books not published by the Sword of the Lord or Bob Jones Press. Why, some IFB churches are so liberal that high school graduates are now permitted to attend colleges other than the ones attended by their pastors. Talk about unholy ecumenicism! Such changes, however, are window dressings meant to give the appearance of a new, improved IFB. Once in the store, people find the same authoritarian practices and exclusionary doctrines. The fundamental problem with the IFB church movement is their beliefs and practices. These things will never change. They can’t. The very foundation of the IFB church movement is the notion of certainty and right belief. Countless IFB churches and pastors believe that they alone have the truth; that they alone are God’s voice and God’s chosen people in their communities. The IFB church movement has always been separatist and anti-cultural. I haven’t seen anything in recent years that suggests this has changed.
The only cure for the IFB church movement is death. And the good news is this: IFB churches, colleges, mission agencies, and parachurch organizations are in numerical and economic decline. The heyday of the IFB church movement was 40-plus years ago. In the 1970s, many of the largest churches in the United States were IFB churches. Today, many of these same churches are either closed or are shells of what they once were. From 1976-1979, I attended Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan — an IFB institution started by Dr. Tom Malone in 1954. Midwestern was never a big college, but today it roughly has ten percent of the students it had in the 1970s. Its website is outdated, and current information about the college hasn’t been posted in ages. The spacious 32-acre college campus has long since been abandoned and sold. Midwestern is now an ancillary ministry of Shalom Baptist Church in Orion, Michigan. Its president, David Carr, like his father Harry Carr, is a Midwestern grad. I predict that there is coming a day when I will hear that the college has closed its doors.
Dr. Malone was the pastor of the nearby Emmanuel Baptist Church. A product of Bob Jones College, Malone started Emmanuel in 1942 after becoming increasingly troubled over what he perceived as liberalism in the Southern and American Baptist conventions. In the uber-sanitized authorized biography Tom Malone: The Preacher from Pontiac, Joyce Vick shares the following apocryphal story:
People ask me all the time, “Brother Tom, to what group do you belong? Of what association are you a member?”
I answer, “None.”
They ask, “Are you a Missionary Baptist?”
“Yes, I am.”
It may sound like a lie, but they do want to know what I am. “Are you a Southern Baptist?”
I say, “I am Southern and I am a Baptist.”
“Are you a Conservative Baptist?”
“Sure, I am conservative.”
“In what association book does Emmanuel Baptist Church appear?”
“Don’t have any.”
“Where are your headquarters?”
“I don’t have one.”
“You mean you don’t belong to anything?”
“No, I belong to the same thing to which the church at Antioch belongs. There is only one tie between New Testament churches, and that is the tie of fellowship. Each church is a local, autonomous church within itself. We have God, El Shaddai, and that’s enough.”
I have never felt I was called to preach for anybody, but I have felt I was caused to preach to everybody. I am not preaching for anybody but Jesus. There is nothing so wonderful, nothing so wholesome, as for a preacher to know there are no strings attached.
Thank God, I don’t have to fit into a denominational program. Thank God, I don’t have to get my orders from some national headquarters. Oh, thank God for the privilege of going to God for my directions! (pages 303, 304)
Emmanuel would be a new kind of Baptist church: an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist congregation. In the 1970s, Emmanuel had over 7,000 active members, and had attendances on special days of over 5,000. Today? The doors of the church are shuttered, and its few remaining members scattered to other Fundamentalist churches in the area. The same story could be said of countless other IFB churches. Even First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana, pastored by the late Jack Hyles and once arguably the largest church in the United States, is a shell of what it once was. Sure, you can find growing IFB churches here and there, but most of them are dying. Oh, they will still brag about the number of souls saved, but actual attendance numbers don’t lie.
My wife’s uncle, the late James Dennis, graduated from Midwestern in the 1960s. After pastoring a church in Bay City, Michigan, Jim moved to Newark, Ohio in 1968 to assume the pastorate of the Newark Baptist Temple. A church plant by the Akron Baptist Temple (started by Charles Vaden), the Baptist Temple, as it is commonly called, would see exciting numeric growth in the 1970s and early 1980s. However, by the time Jim died, after serving the Baptist Temple for forty-two years, the church was a shell of what it once was. Its one-time large Christian school was forced to drastically reduce its staff. Licking County Christian Academy (LCCA) at its inception was an Accelerated Christian School (A.C.E.) institution. It would later morph into an unaccredited traditional K-12 school. Today, a skeleton crew of staff use prerecorded Abeka videos to instruct students. Some of our relatives currently attend LCCA, as did our three oldest children for a short time.
Polly and I attended the Baptist Temple for a short time decades ago. I could write for hours about our experiences there — good and bad. We left the Baptist Temple in early 1981 to help Polly’s father, a 1976 graduate of Midwestern and Jim Dennis’ pastoral assistant, to plant a new church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio. I continued to have interaction with Jim and the Baptist Temple into the early 2000s. When our family briefly relocated to nearby Frazeyburg, Ohio in late 1994, people were shocked that we decided to NOT join the Baptist Temple, choosing instead to join the Fallsburg Baptist Church, an IFB congregation pastored by my former best friend Keith Troyer.
Over the years, I have watched the Baptist Temple “evolve.” While the church and its leaders are no longer as dogmatic as they once were over “church standards” (extra-Biblical rules used to govern and control the behavior of congregants), they are still a hardcore, right-wing, King James-only authoritarian congregation. When asked what I think has “changed” at the Baptist Temple, I laugh, and reply, “men are allowed to have facial hair now.” I suspect that this is not the kind of “reform” Eric Skwarczynski is talking about.
IFB institutions don’t reform. At best, they pretty themselves up a bit, hoping to attract unsuspecting visitors. Most IFB churches, however, remain committed to what they call “old-fashioned” Baptist beliefs and practices. They are proud to never have changed anything except their underwear. James Dennis was proud of the fact that he believed the same Biblical “truths” when he retired that he believed when graduating from Midwestern years before. No one should wear unchangeability as a badge of honor. “I have never changed my mind on anything. Bless your heart, my beliefs have never changed! Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and so am I. Can I get an AMEN?” And it is for this reason alone that I am convinced that it is impossible to reform the IFB church movement. The movement has chosen to die on the twin hills of arrogance and certainty. All any of us can do is to help them swiftly meet their end.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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When you go to Pigeon Forge, sit in mall parking lot, you’ll find more women with shorts on than pants & dresses put together. If you dress like that and you get raped, and I’m on the jury, he’s going to go free. You don’t like that, do you? I’m right, though. Because a man’s a man.
— Bobby Leonard, Pastor of Bible Baptist Tabernacle in Monroe, North Carolina
Bobby Leonard is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preacher, pastor of Bible Baptist Tabernacle for fifty-four years. His vile comment in his sermon resulted in widespread condemnation, resulting in Leonard apologizing:
I want to express my deep regret for the statements made from the pulpit. I am only beginning to understand the hurt and offense caused, and I take full responsibility for my words. As a pastor I failed to uphold the biblical values of love and compassion. I apologize for the pain caused and commit to learning from making this foolish and sinful statement. Bible Baptist Tabernacle and I unequivocally stand on the biblical position that rape under any circumstances is a heinous crime to be punished severely and is never excusable.
What are we to make of Leonard’s apology, especially considering he made this statement six months ago and only apologized AFTER his words were revealed by Bad Preacher Clips on Twitter? Leonard apologized because he got caught. His words caused such outrage, he had no choice but to eat them and “apologize.”
Generally, preachers such as Leonard say what they mean the first time. Apologies are damage control, not repentance and contrition. Leonard has been an IFB Christian his entire life. He has heard similar statements countless times over the years; I know I have.
Here’s the late IFB demigod Jack Hyles saying virtually the same thing; suggesting that if women who dress immodestly (show their thighs) get raped, they deserve it.
Here’s what a few other IFB/Baptist preachers said about women dressing immodestly:
An immodestly dressed woman is like a cigarette at a gas pump. The cigarette does not explode; the explosion comes as a result of the inherent instability of the fuel. But whoever lit the thing is an absolute fool. I can hear the responses being typed furiously all the way from Iowa. “Well, he should control himself!” Amen, sister, amen. He should walk in the Spirit and thus not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. And you should not run around half-clothed.
— Tom Brennan, pastor of Bible Baptist Church in Dubuque, Iowa, Brennan’s Pen, The Relationship Between Modesty and Lust, April 25, 2022
The entire eighteenth chapter of Leviticus is on nakedness. Although most Christians still consider bestiality as being wrong, they no longer consider homosexuality as being wrong or dressing improperly as being wrong. Many see nothing wrong with dressing scantily. Many see nothing wrong with mixed bathing, yet God calls it an abomination. How many cases of incest have taken place in homes where passions have been inflamed by immodesty among family members? How many boys and girls have been raised in homes that practiced immodest dress and now live lives of promiscuity?
— Gerald B. Collingsworth, pastor of Heritage Baptist Church in Mogadore, Ohio, Right Living is Not Legalism, May 18, 2019
It’s that beautiful yet dreadful time of year when summer clothes come-out. And it seems that every summer shorts get shorter, necklines plunge lower, styles get tighter, and fabrics are so thin that one could read a newspaper through them. Yet issues over modest clothing aren’t just significant to the Amish and crotchety old people who complain about “those ‘dang teenagers.”
When a glutton eats too much, no one else gets fat. And when a thief steals from a convenience store, only the thief goes to jail. But when a young lady dresses inappropriately, the effects of her sin are expansive.
Her sin spreads.
As she strolls down the beach in her immodest bathing suit or worships on a Sunday wearing a revealing dress, everyone who sees her is handed temptation. The men and boys around her must battle the sin of lust, while the women and girls around her must battle the sins of bitterness and jealousy and the temptation to show-off their bodies, too. Everyone is distracted by the young lady’s clothing and everyone struggles to think pure thoughts.
— Kara Barnette, wife of Tim, pastor of Heritage Hills Baptist Church in Rockdale County, Georgia
There is an infatuation with the body, and, of course, the sexual aspects of the body as well. Some sports encourage immodesty, revealing large portions of the body and this happens in some sports. These are the risky sports. Here they are, what are the risky sports? Gymnastics. Gymnastics and swimming. These are the sports in which there is an added risk.
Why are all of the gymnasts [at] more of a risk than other sports? Do you really want your daughters involved in a sport that involves a fair amount of immodesty in which red-blooded American male coaches are interacting with these girls? Or, worse yet, where the infatuation of the body eventually effects the lesbian coaches?
— Kevin Swanson, Gymnastics and the Sexual Abuse of Kids, February 9, 2018
Leonard should be fired for what he said, but he won’t be. Why? I suspect more than a few church members agree with him. What Leonard spoke out loud is not uncommon in IFB circles. Just good ‘ole old-fashioned, pulpit-pounding, toe-stomping, fire-and-brimstone preaching, right?
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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