Most Bible scholars outside of the Evangelical ghetto believe the Pentateuch/Torah — the first five books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy — was written by multiple authors over centuries. Many Evangelicals, on the other hand, believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch — an absurd claim if there ever was one. If you are unfamiliar with why this position is absurd, give the Wiki on the subject a read.
Thinking that Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible leads to all sorts of apologetic gymnastics and wild explanations for things in the text that make Mosaic authorship an impossibility. Is Moses authored the book of Deuteronomy, explain chapter 34, verses 4-8:
And the Lord said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither. So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
If Moses wrote Deuteronomy, how is it possible he also wrote his obituary? Absurd, right? I know all the explanations Evangelicals give to explain how this is possible, but none of them seem plausible. No, it is far more likely that an unknown author tacked on his account of Moses’ death long after he died. Problem solved, but many Evangelicals can’t accept that explanation because Bible literalism forced them to accept that Moses wrote the Pentateuch and he somehow mentioned his demise before he died, centuries after his death.
Here’s another. Take Numbers 12:3:
(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)
If Moses wrote the Pentateuch, he sure had a high opinion of himself. the Bible has a lot to say about the sin of pride, does it not? No, it is far more likely that an unknown author added this description of the humble, meek Moses long after he was dead. Of course, if you are an Evangelical who believes in the transcription theory — God gave Moses the words to write, he was just a secretary — problem solved. Just remember, when facing an insurmountable problem with the Biblical text, appeal to faith and the supernatural. Problem solved.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
According to Bible literalists, God created the universe in six twenty-four-hour days, 6,025 years ago. During the six days of creation, God created the first man, Adam, from the dust of the ground, and then created the first woman, Eve, from one of Adam’s ribs. Of course, as science clearly shows, these claims are myths. Nonetheless, countless Christians across the world, and most Evangelicals in the United States, believe these claims are true. They must believe these things because their view of Scripture as inspired, inerrant, and infallible demands it. This is why you find Evangelicals defending such abhorrent behaviors such as rape, murder, slavery, and genocide.
Adam and Eve had two sons Cain and Abel. It is assumed that Mr. and Mrs. Adam had other children, including daughters, but outside of a third son born later named Seth, the Bible mentions no other children. Adam and Eve’s children had children of their own, so a big question is who they had sex with. Their mother? Their unnamed sisters? Women who lived on Earth already when they were born? Fallen angels? Space aliens?
In Genesis 4:1-8 we find a story about Cain murdering Abel:
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
Upset over a rejected offering to the Lord, Cain killed his brother. The Lord was not happy with Cain:
What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
Cain, a keeper of livestock, was cursed by God. The Lord said from that day forward Cain would be a failed farmer and a fugitive/vagabond.
Cain replied:
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Who, exactly, were the people that Cain feared would “find and kill him”? According to the Bible, the only people on Earth at the time were Adam, Eve, and Cain. Was Cain afraid his parents would kill him? In come Evangelical apologists with all sorts of explanations, but their protestations are nothing more than personal opinions. Remember, when you hook your wagon to Bible inerrancy — not adding to or taking away from the Word of God — you are forced to accept what the text says.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.Psalm 12:6,7
Most Evangelicals believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible Word of God. Every word is true, without error or contradiction. This position cannot be rationally sustained. Educated Evangelicals know about translation errors and contradictions, yet still maintain the Bible is somehow, some way, without error. How do Evangelicals, knowing that the evidence is stacked against them, continue to say that the Bible — be it at the manuscript or translation level — is inerrant?
Evangelicals invented out of whole cloth a new doctrine to cover their asses — the preservation of Scripture. The preservation of scripture doctrine asserts that God has preserved the Bible throughout human history so that the Bibles we have today are God’s very words; God superintended this process in such a way that error did not enter the text through the translation and copying process.
I spent fifty years in Evangelical Christianity. I heard countless preachers preach-up and defend the preservation of Scripture. What these preachers said sounded right, but none provided evidence for their claim. Instead, we were told that God is perfect — how could his Word be otherwise? If this doctrine is true, then Evangelical preachers should be able to produce evidence for this untainted line of Scripture — all sixty-six books. When asked for this evidence — crickets. And yes, I am aware some proponents of King James-onlyism have detailed charts they use to prove the preservation of Scripture (and to a lesser degree the purity of the Baptist church).
Remember, the goal is to protect the Bible from critical examination. Doubt is poison to Evangelical preachers, so they go to great lengths to inoculate congregants from anything that would cause them to question the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible. One way to do that is to tell church members that God has preserved his very words, and they can trust that the Bible is authoritative, accurate, and true. Of course, any rudimentary understanding of the history of the Biblical text and the underlying Greek and Hebrew manuscripts shows that inerrancy, infallibility, and preservation cannot be rationally sustained. Inspiration is a faith claim beyond rational inquiry, but inerrancy, infallibility, and preservation can be critically examined. And when they are, the presuppositions underlying them fail.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Originally written in March 2015. Updated, expanded, and edited.
An anonymous commenter left the following comment (no longer publicly available) on the Galatians 4 blog:
if the Bible is not truth; the Word of God – then NO ONE can be saved. If we do not believe the Bible, we cannot be saved.
This comment was left on a post on a blog entry titled, The IFB Pastor Turned Atheist: Those Who Fall Away (no longer available). The post is about my defection from Christianity. The author of the blog post agrees with the anonymous commenter’s view: that if we do not believe the Bible we cannot be saved. (Interestingly, the owner of the Galatians 4 website is now an unbeliever.)
Here’s the problem with this view:
First, it makes salvation dependent on reading the right words and believing the right things.
Second, the first-century Christian church had no Bible. They had the Old Testament, a text that makes no mention of Christian salvation and Christian oral traditions. Besides, most early Christians could not read or write.
Third, the gospels were not written until decades after Jesus Christ died and resurrected from the dead. The writings of the Apostle Paul were written first, and they are quite sparse when it comes mentioning Jesus and clearly articulating the Christian gospel. Paul’s writings need the gospels for the Christian/Pauline gospel to make sense.
Fourth, the printing press was invented 1500 years AFTER the death of Jesus. What Bible did people read before the invention of the printing press?
Fifth, illiteracy and the cost of a printed Bible meant that most Christians did not own a copy of the Bible. They relied on others to read the Bible to them or pass on the oral stories of Christianity.
Sixth, it took centuries to complete the canon of the Christian Bible. Prior to this, Christians had “incomplete” Bibles, often containing only a few books of the Bible. And to this day, Christians debate whether certain books belong in the canon of Scripture.
The anonymous commenter does what a lot of Christians do: he takes how things are now and reads it back into Christian church history. You know, if the Oxford, Calf-Skinned KJV Scofield Bible was good enough for the Apostle Paul it is good enough for me.
Most Christians have little knowledge about the long, complex, and contradictory history of the Bible and the Christian church. This lack of historical knowledge allows them to make absurd statements like the anonymous commenter made on the Galatians 4 blog.
The bigger problem is the way Fundamentalists read the Bible. When they read the phrase “Word of God” they assume it means “the Bible.” This, however, is not the case. Most instances in the Bible where we find the phrase “word of God” refer to spoken words or Jesus Christ himself.
The phrase “word of God” appears 49 times in the Bible. As you can easily see, the phrase has several different meanings:
1 Samuel 9:27 And as they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, Bid the servant pass on before us, (and he passed on,) but stand thou still a while, that I may show thee the word of God.
1 Kings 12:22 But the word of God came unto Shemaiah the man of God, saying . . .
1 Chronicles17:3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying . . .
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luke 5:1 And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret . . .
Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken . . .
Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Acts 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
Acts 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John . . .
Acts 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
Acts 12:24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.
Acts 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
Acts 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word ofGod.
Acts 13:44 And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Acts 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.
Acts 18:11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Acts 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel . . .
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
1Corinthians14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
2 Corithians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God . . .
Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1 Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
2 Timothy 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water . . .
1 John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Revelation 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held . . .
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The word “scripture” appears thirty-two times in the Bible. Most of the time, the word scripture refers to the Old Testament, a text that is devoid of any mention of Jesus, the gospel, or ANYTHING Christian, for that matter.
The Bible states in John 1:1-2 that Jesus was the Word:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. (The rest of John chapter 1 makes it clear that the “Word” John 1:1-2 is speaking of is Jesus, not the Bible.)
With this thought in mind, that Jesus is the Word, let’s look at Hebrews 4:12-14:
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Raise your hand if you have heard Hebrews 4:12-13 quoted in reference to the Bible, the Word of God. Anyone raised in a Baptist church has heard this countless times. However, look closely at Hebrews 4:12-14. Is the word of God here the Bible or Jesus? Notice the male pronoun in the phrase manifest in HIS sight? Verse 14 makes the “who” of the text very clear when it says, “Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God…”
The whole point of this exercise is to show that it is important NOT to read preconceived ideas and beliefs into the Biblical text. Pastors breed ignorance when they quote verses to “prove” a point and do not convey to the congregation what the text actually says. They also breed ignorance when they refuse to say, not “the Bible says” or “God says,” but “our church says,” or “I say.” Far too many preachers are like Al Shannon, Jr, a fifty-year member of the Church of Christ. Shannon says about himself:
I adhere to the principle of speaking where the bible speaks, and remaining silent where the bible is silent. I do not add to or take from God’s Word nor do I go beyond that which was written. I prove all things by the scripture, and by no other source. This site is designed to preach the gospel and doctrine of [the Churches of] Christ unto all the world.
This kind of thinking is common in every sect that believes the Bible is an inerrant, infallible text. They think THEIR interpretation is the one, true, exact interpretation, and they alone are preaching the pure word of God. They are naïvely or deliberately ignorant about the influence of geography, culture, environment, and tribal affiliation on what one believes. (Please see Why Most Americans are Christian.) In their minds, they believe exactly what was written on parchment 2,000 years ago. In Shannon’s sect, many of the churches have a building cornerstone that says AD 33. That’s right, just like the Catholic and Landmark Baptist sects, they believe they are the one true church, established by Jesus to propagate the true gospel to the ends of the earth.
This kind of intransigence closes minds off from any other belief or idea. Until people dare to think that they could be wrong, that their sect might be wrong, or that the claims they make for the Bible might be false, there is little to no hope of reaching them. They are intellectually walled off from any voice but their own.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I follow the KJV 1611 group on Facebook. Recently, the following meme was posted:
I decided to respond to the meme. Enjoy!😉 All spelling, grammar, punctuation, and bad arguments in the original.
Bruce: I studied the Bible and that’s why I’m an atheist. 😈 Indeed, the truth shall set you free!
KJV 1611: Bruce Gerencser “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” – God
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser you did not study bc if you had you wouldn’t be an atheist..
Bruce: Tommy, I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years, and a pastor for twenty-five years. So nice try, but no cigar.
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser yeh, so you page says .. that doesn’t mean you understood what you read.. hey, I’m not judging… Youre a grown man, you have free will. Which is proof that God is real.. if we were confined to just being science we would be bound to only to laws of physics.. no free will. But you tell yourself whatever you choose. Regardless, you know you shouldn’t deny God/Jesus Christ and def not the Holy Spirit. Please reconsider your position
Bruce: Tommy, where can I take the test?😂
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser just order your permits online like usual.🤣
Bruce: Tommy, we don’t have free will, so there goes your God.
Q: Bruce Gerencser .. so who made you become an atheist?🤔.. nobody but yourself= free will
Bruce: Tommy, sure. 😀😃
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser yep I made you make that response too 🤔🤣.. thank you for continually verifying that I am 100% correct.. Because it’s your continual free will to choose to respond Just as it’s my free will to continue to prove you wrong and it’s working perfectly!!
Bruce: Tommy, nope. I answered you because I’m preconditioned to answer dumb statements. I can’t help myself, it’s my nature.
More seriously, if you want to have a real discussion about free will contact me via my blog. I’m more than happy to explain my understanding of free will — both as a Christian and an atheist. I’ve much to say, but this isn’t the proper forum to do so. 🤣❤️
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser you obviously, YOU HAD A CHOICE TO RESPOND.. OR TO NOT RESPOND ,,, WHICH proves you did 1 or the other and that was your choice , nobody made you. . that is free will. God isnt going to make you choose him. Your choice to respond to me Your choice to except him. Please, stop arguing…m still yet a free choice..
Janie: Bruce Gerencser pitiful.
Bruce: Janie, thank you.😂
Emily: Bruce Gerencser Galatians 5:7-9 KJV Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh $not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump…… there’s still time for you to repent and turn back to Christ
Bruce: Emily, sadly, you fail to understand that quoting Bible verses to atheists doesn’t work.
Joseph: Bruce Gerencser Anyone approaching God must first believe that He is.
Joseph: If I didn’t believe that you’re real, it would follow the same logic that it doesn’t matter what your comment says, or what you write on here at all. you’re an AI and you’re not real. If I approach you with that mindset I would have the same mindset about you as you do about God.
Bruce: Joseph, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Marcia: Bruce Gerencser facts, if you are not a child of God you can never understand his words. God spoke in parables so that they who belong to him can comprehend. You need to ask God for his wisdom and his spirit. Because without his spirit it profited nothing. If God doesn’t give you his understanding, then you just don’t belong to him. He created us all. But not everyone belongs to him. A fool says there’s no God.
Bruce: Marcia, good to know. Then there’s no need to preach the gospel to me, right? Or telling me to read the book of John, right? Or quoting Bible verses to me, right? You might want to tell your fellow believers that I’m deaf. 🤣🤣
Michael: “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap” (Galatians 6:7).
“[12] The wicked plots against the just, and gnashes at him with his teeth. [13] The Lord laughs at him, for He sees that his day is coming” (Psalm 37:12-13).
“And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:7).
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).
“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).
“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36).
“But unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (John 13:3).
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15).
“[18] Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, [19] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God” (2 Corinthians 5:18-20).
Mr. Gerencser, I’m pretty sure it’s likely you haven’t read the Bible in full, that is, cover to cover. Typically, those who profess to be Atheists, yet also claim to have read and studied the Bible, likely did not read a lick of it, or if they have, it was perhaps a few verses here or there; or what they ‘heard’ of the Bible from a third party who themselves don’t believe, and who claimed they too “read” the Bible.
I have encountered many Atheists in my day, and usually all they have to hear is the preaching of the Gospel message and they decide to remain an enemy of God in their unbelief, because their pride is offended by the conviction of the Gospel. And most often than not, these individuals wouldn’t even bother to read more of what they believe is an offense to them. So the claims of most Atheists of having ‘read’ the whole of the Bible is far more a stretch of the truth than they personally believe the Bible to be. If we are keeping totally 100% here.
I pray the Lord has mercy upon you and quickens your spirit that you might believe, call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved! But if you remain stubbornly hard of heart, and will not receive a love of the truth, then it is simply as my Lord Jesus says, “You are not of God”, you are not of the truth, therefore you cannot receive His words. And if this is the case for you, woe unto you. For Hell is real, my friend, and judgment IS coming! Only God knows whether you will ever believe or not, so I will lovingly say to you, my friend, be reconciled to God.
Repent of your sins! Turn from them and turn to God! Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, whom God the Father sent to die for yours, mines and the whole world’s sins. Put your faith in Him [alone] to give you forgiveness of your sins, redemption, and salvation!
Seek the Lord—NOW—while He may be found; and do not perish in your sins. For tomorrow is not promised to anyone. The life of men is but a vapor; like the grass that fades, or the glory of a flower that’s here today but gone tomorrow. Yet, if you repent and believe the Gospel of Christ, even though you die, you shall live!
“[16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).
Call on Him! 🙂 <3
Bruce: Michael, I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years. I pastored IFB, Southern Baptist, Christian Union, and Non-denominational churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. So, yes, I read the Bible — the KJV — cover to cover numerous times. All told, I spent 20,000 hours studying the Bible and preached 4,000+ sermons. I know, comprehend, and understand the Bible. If you doubt me, ask away. I’m confident I can pass with flying colors any Bible Knowledge Test you might give. 🤣❤️
Louwtjie: Bruce Gerencser sad to say this..but I question it…..were you ever born again. JOHN 3:3-5 Where you ever filled with the Hoky Spirit…did you ever confessed Jesus Christ as your Savior. ROM 10 :8-10…I don’t think so
Bruce: Louwtjie, yes, I was born again. Anyone who knew me at the time will testify of my faith in and commitment to Christ.
That I don’t fit in your peculiar theological box 📦 is your problem, not mine.
Bruce: Louwtjie, yes [were you ever born again], yes [were you ever filled with the Holy Spirit], and yes [did you ever confess Jesus Christ as your Savior]. Now what?
William: if your really a atheist??? you might have read the BIBLE, but study it is very different, you have my prayer that OUR FATHER will open your eyes to the real WORD of GOD [JESUS CHRIST] my opinion only
Bruce: William, yes I’m “really” an atheist — agnostic atheist, to be exact.
As pastor, I spent 20,000 hours studying the Bible and its attendant teachings. I preached expositionally. I committed myself to knowing the Word of God, not only for myself, but also for the people I pastored.
James: You cannot understand the bible unless the Holy Spirit gives you understanding, so if your not saved you have not the Holy Spirit indwelling you, therefore there is no understanding….
Bruce: James, yet numerous people quoted Bible verses to me in this thread. If I can’t “understand” it, why quote it to me? If the natural man cannot understand the things of God, preaching to me or quoting verses is worthless.
So, which shall it be?
Several other Fundamentalists commented but blocked me so I couldn’t retrieve their comments. Evidently, allowing an atheist to respond to a comment you made about him will give you demonic cooties.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Go to your average Evangelical church on Sundays and you will hear pastors say things such as:
I only speak what the Bible speaks
I only speak when God speaks
Thus saith the Lord . . .
I didn’t say it, God did
Your problem is with God, not me
Those raised in non-Evangelical traditions are likely saying right now, “What the fuck, Bruce. This is nonsense.” Nonsense, it is, but when you believe a supernatural God saved you from eternal death and lives inside you as your teacher and guide; when you believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible; when you believe God literally speaks to you through the words of the Bible and a still small voice in your head, it’s not hard to confuse your personal beliefs and interpretations with the voice and words of God. Worse yet, Evangelical preachers believe that God supernaturally calls them to preach the inerrant, infallible words of the Protestant Christian Bible. As a result, preachers think the words they utter during their sermons are straight from the mouth of God. THUS SAITH THE LORD!
“Bruce, how could Evangelicals believe these things?” I know, I know, but if I am honest, I held similar beliefs for almost fifty years. I know what religious indoctrination and conditioning can do to your ability to think skeptically and rationally. God hath spoken, how dare I doubt his Word, right? It wasn’t until I learned that the Bible was not inerrant and infallible; and that the central claims of Christianity lacked evidence, that I began to question my sincerely held beliefs.
In Genesis 3, we find a story about Adam, Eve, and a walking, talking snake. (By the way, nowhere in the Old Testament does the Bible say the serpent was Satan.) In verse one, the snake says to Eve: Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? God had warned Adam and Eve that if they ate fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they would die. Not eventually, immediately. Of course, we know God lied. Adam and Eve went on to have children and live for hundreds of years before they died. The snake was right when he said in verses four and five: Ye shall not surely die:For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The serpent rightly challenged God’s claim, saying “yea, hath God said?” According to Evangelical apologists, the serpent was Satan himself, and he was challenging the very Word of God. Talk about reading your peculiar theology back into the text. According to the Bible, Adam was 930 years old when he died. Eve likely lived a long life too, though the Bible does not record her age at death. This means, contrary to what God said in Genesis 2:15-17:
And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Adam and Eve did not die on the day they ate the forbidden fruit. God lied, so the serpent was justified in questioning God’s truthfulness. Of course, the Bible was written by men; contains the words of men; and is fallible and errant from table of contents to concordance. It is not surprising, then, that there are mistakes, errors, and contradictions in the text (especially before printing presses and copy editors).
People have every reason to question whether God actually spoke the words recorded in the Bible. Investing time in studying these issues will show that the Bible is a human book written by fallible, frail, contradictory men — most of whom are unknown. And if the Bible is a human book, that means words uttered by preachers from church pulpits are human too. The Bible may have spiritual value for those who need it, but it is in no way a supernatural text written by a supernatural deity. And if you object to what I have written in this post, it is up to you to provide evidence for your supernatural claims. “Bruce, the BIBLE says _________!” And I should care why, exactly? If you want me to believe the Bible is a God-inspired, inerrant, infallible collection of ancient religious texts, you must provide evidence for your bald assertions.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
By John MacFarlane, pastor of First Baptist Church, Bryan, Ohio, Truth? or TRUTH!
Though worldly ideas and “truths” may change, the truth of God’s Word never changes. For the truth of God’s Word to change, God would have to change. His nature would have to change and that’s never going to happen.
….
God tells us in Malachi 3:6, “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” Since His attributes and nature never change, God is ALWAYS truth, therefore, His WORD is always truth and that truth “endureth forever.” (Psalm 117:2)
There will never come a time where better or more current information will rectify some previous Biblical error. What God’s Word taught 2,000 years ago will be the same, valid truths needing to be taught 2,000 years from now, should the Lord tarry.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Afterward, Baptist sent me a polite email that I thought I would respond to in a post. I suspect more than a few readers will find my response interesting and, hopefully, illuminating.
Baptist first shared his experiences with Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches. Some of his experiences were similar to mine, though I want to make clear that I left the IFB church movement years before I left the ministry and later deconverted. I stopped self-identifying as IFB after the Jack Hyles scandal (Please see The Legacy of IFB Pastor Jack Hyles) and my adoption of Calvinistic soteriology.
What I want to focus on is Baptist’s second paragraph:
But my main point of contact was that you stated that you, one day, realized that the Bible is not infallible. Why did you come to believe that? I maintain that the Bible (K.J.V. for English readers) is fine and has no errors or contradictions, and I have spent decades answering questions on this topic. I study the Bible and a lot of ancient history. Most of the supposed errors/contradictions believed by people comes down to ignorance of ancient customs. I would like to know what it was for you, where you came to believe it was not perfect.
Evangelicals generally believe the sixty-six books of the Protestant Christian Bible are inspired, inerrant, and infallible. Inspiration is a faith claim, for which no argument for or against can be made. Either you believe, by faith, the Bible is inspired, or you don’t. I don’t. Inerrancy and infallibility, on the other hand, are empirical claims which can be tested, proved, or disproved. For much of my Christian life, I believed that the Bible was inspired, inerrant, and infallible. In the early 2000s, I stopped using the King James Bible, opting instead to read and preach from the New American Standard Bible (NASB) and English Standard Version (ESV). Devotionally, I started reading The Message. By this point, I had concluded that the Bible was faithful and reliable, but not inerrant and infallible. I never doubted that the Bible was the Word of God, but I came to see and understand the deep, fallible imprint human authors made on the original manuscripts (which do not exist).
The King James Bible was first released in 1611. The KJV was primarily a revision and update of the Bishops’ Bible. Translators primarily used Erasmus’ Greek text (Textus Receptus) for translating the New Testament, and the Masoretic text for the Old, along with the Greek Septuagint, and the Latin Vulgate.
In 1769, the KJV was updated, modernizing the English and fixing scores of errors and mistakes. Wikipedia states:
By the mid-18th century the wide variation in the various modernized printed texts of the Authorized Version, combined with the notorious accumulation of misprints, had reached the proportion of a scandal, and the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge both sought to produce an updated standard text. First of the two was the Cambridge edition of 1760, the culmination of 20 years’ work by Francis Sawyer Parris, who died in May of that year. This 1760 edition was reprinted without change in 1762 and in John Baskerville’s fine folio edition of 1763.
This was effectively superseded by the 1769 Oxford edition, edited by Benjamin Blayney, though with comparatively few changes from Parris’s edition; but which became the Oxford standard text, and is reproduced almost unchanged in most current printings. Parris and Blayney sought consistently to remove those elements of the 1611 and subsequent editions that they believed were due to the vagaries of printers, while incorporating most of the revised readings of the Cambridge editions of 1629 and 1638, and each also introducing a few improved readings of their own.
They undertook the mammoth task of standardizing the wide variation in punctuation and spelling of the original, making many thousands of minor changes to the text. In addition, Blayney and Parris thoroughly revised and greatly extended the italicization of “supplied” words not found in the original languages by cross-checking against the presumed source texts. Blayney seems to have worked from the 1550 Stephanus edition of the Textus Receptus, rather than the later editions of Theodore Beza that the translators of the 1611 New Testament had favoured; accordingly the current Oxford standard text alters around a dozen italicizations where Beza and Stephanus differ. Like the 1611 edition, the 1769 Oxford edition included the Apocrypha, although Blayney tended to remove cross-references to the Books of the Apocrypha from the margins of their Old and New Testaments wherever these had been provided by the original translators. It also includes both prefaces from the 1611 edition. Altogether, the standardization of spelling and punctuation caused Blayney’s 1769 text to differ from the 1611 text in around 24,000 places.
The 1611 and 1769 texts of the first three verses from I Corinthians 13 are given below.
[1611] 1. Though I speake with the tongues of men & of Angels, and haue not charity, I am become as sounding brasse or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I haue the gift of prophesie, and vnderstand all mysteries and all knowledge: and though I haue all faith, so that I could remooue mountaines, and haue no charitie, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestowe all my goods to feede the poore, and though I giue my body to bee burned, and haue not charitie, it profiteth me nothing.
[1769] 1. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
There are a number of superficial edits in these three verses: 11 changes of spelling, 16 changes of typesetting (including the changed conventions for the use of u and v), three changes of punctuation, and one variant text—where “not charity” is substituted for “no charity” in verse two, in the belief that the original reading was a misprint.
Most people who use the KJV use the 1769 revision. The 1611 version is unreadable for most modern readers. Once I understood the changes and corrections that had been made in the 1769 revision, I could no longer say with a straight face that the KJV was inerrant and infallible. I came to the same conclusion about ALL English translations of the Bible. It is impossible to conclude that the KJV or any other Bible translation is without error. Since the original manuscripts no longer exist, the same can be said about the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. This is the position taken by virtually all non-Evangelical Bible scholars. One can still hold on to the Bible being inspired by God, but inerrancy and infallibility cannot be rationally sustained. The data is overwhelming: both manuscripts and translations have scores of errors, mistakes, and contradictions. Dr. Bart Ehrman says there are over 40,000 differences in the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. Granted, most of these differences are minor, but when you believe the Bible is inerrant, it only takes one error to bring inerrancy tumbling down.
Baptist, as all Evangelical apologists do, likely has explanations for every error, mistake, and contradiction in the Bible. That’s why I don’t get into long, drawn-out debates over Bible errancy and fallibility. Evangelicals always have answers, but are they good answers? Keep in mind, for Evangelicals, the data don’t come first. Before they even read the text, Evangelicals are guided by several presuppositions: the Bible is God’s word; the Bible is inerrant; the Bible is infallible. When confronted with obvious errors, Evangelicals must, according to their presuppositions, find ways to make the text fit in the inerrant/infallible box.
As a pastor, I had a 1,000-plus-page book that addressed all the alleged errors and contradictions in the Bible. When I came across verses that seemed contradictory, I would consult this book. Most of the time, I was satisfied with the explanation, but other times I found the book’s explanations weak, incoherent, or absurd. In these instances, I put aside intellectual inquiry and appealed to faith. I told myself, “The Bible is the perfect Word of God.” Any apparent error or mistake was due to my lack of understanding, and, in time, God would make things clear to me. And if he didn’t, I would still trust him, believing the Bible was without error.
After I left the ministry twenty years ago, I began investigating the central claims of Christianity, including the claim that the Bible is inerrant and infallible. I concluded that these claims could not be rationally, intellectually sustained. I found Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the nature and history of the Biblical text to be helpful in this regard. Bishop John Shelby Spong was another author I found helpful. When people want to debate me on Bible inerrancy or infallibility, the first thing I do is ask them if they have read Ehrman’s books. If not, I usually say, “Read a couple of his books, and then we will talk.”
If someone is unwilling to read Dr. Ehrman’s books, I encourage them to watch the videos produced by Bible scholar, Dr. Dan McClellan. I watch Dan’s videos almost every day, always learning something new. I wish I had been exposed to men such as Bart and Dan in my younger years as an Evangelical preacher. I suspect I would have caused a lot less harm to the people I pastored.
I appreciate Baptist’s questions. I hope I have adequately answered them.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I came of age in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. I attended an IFB college and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. I was taught and believed that the Bible was inspired, inerrant, and infallible — the very Words of God. One cardinal rule I lived by was this: The verses in the Bible only have one meaning; many applications, but only one meaning. This is standard Evangelical dogma. Never asked, however, is whether this claim is true. Is there really only one meaning for every book, passage, or verse in the Bible?
If this claim is true, wouldn’t every Evangelical believe the same thing? Wouldn’t every Evangelical read the Bible and come to the same conclusion? If, as Evangelicals allege, every believer has the Holy Spirit living inside of them as their teacher and guide, it stands to reason that every one of them would agree with one another about what a particular verse says and means. If the verses of the Bible only have one meaning, and the Holy Spirit teaches and guides every believer, why is it impossible to find two Evangelicals who believe this or that verse says the same thing?
Here’s the truth of the matter: the Bible has no inherent meaning. Two thousand years of Christian church history clearly show us that Christians have NEVER agreed on what the Bible says. Thousands of Christian sects are evidence that believers cannot agree on the “one meaning” the Bible allegedly has. Think, for a moment, about all the Christians who have commented on this site over the years — thousands of them. All of them appealed to the Bible to justify their claims, yet their “one meaning” differs from that of other believers. Bruce, you never were saved! Bruce, you were saved, but lost your salvation! Bruce, you are saved, but backslidden! Which is it? If the Bible only has one meaning, this means that at least two of these “one meaning” Bible-based Christians are wrong.
We determine the meaning of Bible verses. The Bible says whatever we say it says. Denominations and churches are, at a fundamental level, groups of people who agree on what this or that Bible verse says. I was a Calvinistic pastor for several years. Most of the people who were members of the churches I pastored were Calvinistic too. What bound us together as a people? Our beliefs about what this or that Bible verse said about things such as total depravity, unconditional election, limited or particular atonement/redemption, irresistible grace, and the perseverance/preservation of the saints. While there were certainly members who were not Calvinists or perhaps had issues with one or more of the five points of Calvinism, it was our commonly held understanding of certain verses of the Bible that held us together. We, collectively, decided what the Bible said, as does every sect, church, or Christian organization.
Just remember this post the next time a church, pastor, or apologist tells you that there is only “one meaning” to a verse or book of the Bible.
Let me conclude with several short video clips from Bible scholar Dan McClellan on the issue of whether the Bible has “inherent meaning.” I love Dan’s content. I wish Youtube and Dan had been around when I was a pastor. I learn new stuff about the Bible and Christianity every time I watch one of Dan’s videos. I know most of all that my pastors and professors either lied to me or were ignorant themselves.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
