Recently, I received a one-link email from a Christian man named John Roden:
https://www.angelfire.com/va/sovereigngrace/personaltestimony.html
Sigh, Angelfire. So 1990s. The link Roden sent me was to a page detailing his testimony. I perused Roden’s testimony, concluding that he has bought into the Calvinistic gospel of sovereign grace. His main page revealed a plethora of articles on Calvinism.
I replied to Roden, asking him “What’s your point in sending me a link to your alleged conversion story?”
Roden fired back:
My heart goes out to you, dear friend, for I was once also hardened against the truth as you are at this time. Yet God was pleased to be merciful to me, and I pray that while reading my testimony of the grace of God and the Scriptures quoted and referenced therein, God might be pleased to also grant you repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).
Friend, you may laugh, and say there is no such place as Hell, but I would caution you to weigh seriously the dying words of Thomas Paine, the renowned American author and infidel whose book, Age of Reason, exerted considerable influence in his day against belief in God and in the Bible. When he came to his last hour before death in 1809, Thomas Paine cried out,
“I would give worlds, if I had them, that Age of Reason had not been published. O Lord, help me! Christ, help me! O God, what have I done to suffer so much! But there is no God! But if there should be, what will become of me hereafter! . . . If ever the Devil had an agent, I have been that one!”
Then, my friend, consider the last words of Voltaire, the noted 18th Century French infidel and talented writer who wrote much in his day against the Bible. He said of Christ, “Curse the wretch!” He once boasted, “In 20 years Christianity will be no more. My single hand shall destroy the edifice it took 12 apostles to rear!” However, the physician who attended him in his final moments before death said he cried out desperately:
“I am abandoned by God and man! I will give you half of what I am worth if you will give me six months life. Then I shall go to Hell; and you will go with me. O Christ! O Jesus Christ!”
Contrast the tragic death scene described above with the last words of Dwight L. Moody (1837-1899), the American evangelist who spoke these words with joy as he was about to enter eternity:
“I see earth receding; heaven is opening. God is calling me.”
David Brainerd, whose remarkable evangelistic work among the American Indians still inspire the people of God who read about him, was heard to whisper at the moment of death,
“He will come, and will not tarry. I shall soon be in glory, soon be with God and His angels!”
Saul of Tarsus was one of the worst enemies of the Lord Jesus Christ, yet God was merciful to this one who–like you–hated Him. Saul–after his conversion–became known as the Apostle Paul, who wrote 13 epistles of the New Testament. The story of his miraculous conversion may be read in Acts 9.
A sinner who also received mercy
(Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:4-10),
John Roden
Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”.)
First, Roden ignored my requests on the Contact page, showing disregard and disrespect towards me. If someone asks you not to contact them and you do it anyway, you are being disrespectful. Roden likely thinks “God” told him to contact me. I guess rudeness is okay if you are hearing voices in your head.
Second, Roden ignores the fact that I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years, a Calvinist for many of those years. Does he actually think that quoting Bible verses at me will actually make any difference? Does he really think me reading his testimony will cause me to fall on my knees and confess that Jesus is my Lord and Savior? Not a chance. I wonder if he bothered to read any of the posts on the WHY? page. I suspect not.
Third, Roden deliberately used alleged quotes by Thomas Paine and Voltaire that have no basis in fact. (Please see The Vindication of Thomas Paine by Robert Ingersoll and The Fantasy of the Deathbed Conversion by Lawrence Krauss.) All one has to do is consult God (Google) to learn that these quotes are apocryphal, lies, or in dispute. Like many Evangelicals, Roden mines the Internet for quotes that prove his point: that atheists die screaming for God and Christians die peaceably praising the dead Jesus. Having watched a number of faithful followers of Jesus die, I can tell you that very few of them had Jesus’ name on their lips when they drew their last breaths. Some of them were fearful, despite all the Bible promises they heard over the years. And some died without saying a word, as their brains and hearts shut down. There’s literally nothing that can be learned from the words uttered by people on their deathbeds. To Roden I say, stick around, I hope to have quite a sermon for people on the day I slip out to the crematorium. Maybe Polly will record it so everyone will know what the infidel and apostate Bruce Gerencser had to say when dying.
Before I could respond to Roden’s email, he fired off another missive from God:
While there were apostates from the Christian faith in the apostolic era–and in our day such as yourself–there are also notable converts to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ from atheism. One such is Lee Strobel. Are you familiar with his story, and his book, “The Case for Christ“?
A sinner who received mercy
(Titus 3:5),
John Roden
P.S.–Another book you might consider investigating is “Evidence for the Historical Jesus: Is the Jesus of History the Christ of Faith,” by Gary Habermas.
Sigh. Apologists always bring up Strobel. His books are apologetical pablum. His atheist claim has been widely disputed. And even if he was, so what? What does his conversion prove? Very few atheists convert to Evangelicalism. Even fewer atheists, who were once Evangelical Christians, return to Christianity. It happens, but not very often. And even if it does, so what? If Roden wants to look at statistics, he might want to look at the increasing number of people who are leaving “Biblical” Christianity. the fastest growing “religion” in America is the NONES — people who have no interest in organized religion. Roden might want to consider why this is happening. One can only hope that Roden looks in the mirror.
As far as Habermas is concerned, color me unimpressed. I wonder if Roden agrees with Habemas’ reductionist view of the gospel? I don’t need to read another book. I’ve likely read more theological tomes than Roden. I know all I need to know. I remain unconvinced that the central claims of Christianity are true. I am more than happy to look at new evidence for Christianity, but I don’t expect any to be coming. Christianity is a dead, text-based religion. Anyone who can read can find out all they need to know about Christianity.
Roden is a Calvinist. Why all the verbiage and book recommendations? Isn’t it up to God to save me if I am one of the elect? Why the need for middlemen like Roden? God knows my email address, cellphone number, and where I live. He can reach me at any time. No need to send Christian assholes to slip me a message from Jesus. I’m waiting God . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I agree with your observation, Bruce, with regards to this person’s professed Calvinistic beliefs.
Authors like McDowell, Strobel, and Geissler, were considered “second-rate” in my old Calvinist circle since they were “evidentialists”. These writers spend too much time trying to appeal to the sinful reasoning of human being.
Instead, one should start from the proper “presupposition”, revealed in the Bible, when arguing for the Christian faith. After all, no clever arguments will win people over, rather God-given regeneration brought about by the preaching of the “simple” gospel.
(I am in no way arguing for this view, I am just making an observation that Calvinists tend to have a different approach to apologetics).
And with regards to deathbed conversions: I come from a multi-cultural and multi-religious society. Stories of conversion to Christianity, and from Christianity to other religions, abound.
One such story involves an account of one particularly horrendous figure in history converting to the “one true religion” before he died, and this supposedly demonstrates the truth of said religion and how everything can now be forgiven. Unbelieveable.
Indeed, people around me compete on whose religion can attract the most prominent converts. Conversion stories are not a reliable way to discern truth, although they do have huge emotional appeals.
Speaking of Calvinistic apologetics, I have come across this rather confusing piece:
“The Christian claims that the facts – the objects of knowledge – are related to one another because the Christian claims to know God. The non-Christian does not, and so there is no reason to assume that the objects of knowledge are related to one another. For the sake of our argument from the necessity of omniscience for knowledge we start with the assumption that facts are related such that even one newly discovered fact can overturn our previously held knowledge of others, but even granting this assumption is granting more than the non-Christian can rightfully claim.”
https://choosinghats.org/2011/02/an-informal-introduction-to-covenantal-apologetics-part-26-omniscience-and-unrelated-objects/
I’m just throwing this out here hoping that someone could actually read what the author is trying to deliver, since apologetics don’t work if your audience doesn’t catch the message. And that confused audience I am.
To be honest, I am not familiar with this type of argument, but I think the gist is compatible with “presuppositionalism”.
I think the writer believes:
God creates everything and knows everything, therefore everything in this universe should relate to each other in a harmonious way without contradiction.
One can be sure that there is a so-called consistent general principle to the universe because there is a General Mind behind it all. God is the grand weaver, who pulls single yarns of “facts/knowledge” together to create a giant interconnected web of knowledge. The existence of one “fact” can only be reliably inferred from another if, and only if, one assumes a grand principle behind it all. God is an epistemological necessity, at least according to this writer.
Basically an echo to what Paul says in Acts, “in him we live, move, and have our being.”
By not making this presupposition, the author believes that atheists cannot be sure of the reliability of their epistemology. Some Christians love to say, “If reason evolved from the randomness and chaos of evolution, how can reason be trustworthy?” (By the way, evolution is not random, it is directed by selective pressures).
Some Christians would also say that human relationships – and relationships between “cold facts” or objects – are only logically possible in a universe created by One Relational (Trinitarian) Being. Therefore, the Trinity is proven to be a logical necessity.
Of course, a lot of philosophers and non-Christian religions don’t agree with this conclusion. I believe that other religions with a strong emphasis on omniscience and sovereignty will make a similar argument for the existence of their non-Christian God.
I was confused why a Calvin’s would try to proselytize to you. Does this fellow subscribe to the notion that God uses people as his tools to win people to him? I thought that wasn’t how Calvinism works (not that I care).
I am still amazed at the number of Christians who either don’t bother to read your numerous posts detailing how you were an evangelical pastor for 25 years, or they do know and think you were the “wrong kind” of Christian or not a real Christian or somehow failed to learn The Way of Salvation. Wow.
I have been around some people who were dying, and they weren’t completely coherent or cognizant of reality. I wouldn’t have put much stock in what they were saying. And people’s personal “testimonies” on religious or “spiritual” concepts don’t take away the fact that I have spent a lot of time and resources studying Christianity and find its claims implausible overall.
Deathbed conversions. As the Church Lady would say, “HOW CONVIENIENT!”. It’s right up there with Mormons baptizing their ancestors.
As for Thomas Paine, it would seem he was a Deist, believing in one god. To put words of regret in the mouth of someone who can’t correct the record, frankly, seems like the most pernicious kind of censorship, and censorship is something Christians excel at.
Strobel was never an atheist. At best it was a subject he never seriously considered, but I’ve never known an actual, thoughtful, atheist think the way he does. He makes the claim because he thinks it increases his credibility. It doesn’t.
So, more of the same old, same old…sigh
I’m a believer (which I rather suspect will be a surprise to certain lurkers on your board) but I’ve not felt the need to evangelize you or my fellow posters here. Even the man who influenced my spiritual choices when I was younger acknowledged that beating someone over the head with a Bible is rarely effective (many key figures in my spiritual journey seem to be a bit of an aberration in terms of not insisting that I jump on the nearest sidewalk soapbox) but to my knowledge, those who know me have never not known that I’m a believer.
I reserve my evangelism efforts more for people who believe their cold went away after three days because they persisted in claiming healing for three days, not because they have an immune system, or people who fail to acknowledge the lesson of “O Brother Where Art Thou” when Everett informs Delmar that “even if [salvation] put you square with the Lord, the state of Mississippi (… or Oregon or Arizona or Wyoming …) is a little more hard-nosed.”