Dr. Gero asked:
What are the core fundamental beliefs of Baptists that are shared with these “non-denominational” churches? Also what separates Charismatics/Pentecostals from Baptists? They look mostly the same.
Please see my posts titled Are Evangelical Churches Really “Nondenominational?” and Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?
Nondenominational is Greek for Baptist. Theologically, there is little to no difference between nondenominational and Baptist churches. Go to a nondenominational church’s website, read their official doctrinal statement, and then compare it to the official beliefs of the National Association of Evangelicals and the Southern Baptist Convention. Any deviations are minor/insignificant. On secondary issues such as eschatology, pneumatology, ecclesiology, Calvinism, and Arminianism, there are differences of opinion, but none of which should cause the other to say, “You are not a real Christian.” Of course, there are always outliers, especially when you reach the outlands of Evangelicalism. I knew Calvinists who believed that Arminians were lost or Pentecostals who thought that you had to speak in tongues to be saved. All these exceptions do is prove the rule.
I should note, in passing, that many Charismatic churches are nondenominational. While their services may resemble a scene from One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, their core doctrines are as Baptist as any of the churches I pastored. Word of Faith churches and prosperity churches are an exception to this observation. Quite frankly, most of these churches are either heterodox or downright heretical.
There’s a difference between Charismatic churches and Pentecostal congregations, though that line has blurred somewhat over the years. I have attended numerous Charismatic and Pentecostal church services. I even preached for several Charismatic/Pentecostal churches. I generally found that Pentecostal churches were deeply influenced by the holiness movement, and many of them were appalled by what they saw in Charismatic assemblies. Charismatics seem to have no guardrails. “If God is moving, who are we to object?” the thinking goes. What started with speaking in tongues, has turned into all sorts of crazy, including raising the dead, hysterical laughing, and gold fillings magically growing in mouths. Just go to YouTube and search for Charismatic church services for evidence of my claims. Lots of cray-cray.
Sameness is in the eye of the beholder. I admit I have a sharply critical eye, so I tend to spot differences that casual church attendees might not see easily.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Yeah, Bruce, you are really right about modern evangelical church music being a bunch of “Jesus is my boyfriend” type of songs. That stuff is incredibly vacuous. I never had that much exposure to Pentecostals or Charismatics but what I did experience with them always seemed unhinged. There was a demon hiding behind every door and you had to learn to speak some gibberish tongues to prove that you were “baptized in the spirit”. I remember a few healing services where they would try to remove cancer or some affliction. But they were generally much better at removing money from your wallet. I still find occasional artifacts from my evangelical upbringing. So it’s probably enjoyable to know that out there somewhere there is a cassette that used to have your sermons on it that now are blasting AC/DC songs like ” Highway to Hell” and “Giving the Dog a Bone”.
Hope this pertains to the topic
Bruce says: ‘…. I admit I have a sharply critical eye, so I tend to spot differences that (others) might not see easily….’ I thought this when I visited an ancient and renowned ruined abbey in the UK last week. The first information board said it was the first Cistercian Abbey, and was a breakaway from the Benedictine order. Further splits happened within these Orders, the most extreme one – (and in their eyes the Most Spiritual, I’m sure) – being the Trappists. So no change there then. Why did I not see this when fundy? it’s been split after split pretty much since 33CE and we certainly experienced a few in the 50yrs of our church-going – some painful, some arrogant, some silly and trivial but heartfelt to those within them! And nearly always resulting in some very un-x-tian arguments and spats always!
I agree completely. When I look at Christianity I see split after split.
Bruce: “Nondenominational is Greek for Baptist.”
Zoe: This made me laugh. 🙂
‘But they were generally much better at removing money from your wallet.” Welcome, Danny!
Zoe, Barbara and Matilda—I am somewhat familiar with the history of the Roman Catholic Church. (I have learned most of what I know since abandoning Catholicism!) From what I know, your assessments of “split after split “ are correct. The most famous, of course, is the so-called Reformation. But there were many others before and after, some of which the Church tried to put down violently.
As for “charismatics”: I heard that term when I was an Evangelical Christian. I even heard of “Charismatic Catholic” congregations As an Evangelical, I thought the term was an oxymoron: At that time, I believed Catholics weren’t “true Christians “ and therefore couldn’t have the “gift” of “speaking in tongues.”
On a few occasions, I uttered some kind of gibberish that other congregants believed (and I wanted to believe, was “the Holy Spirit speaking “ through me. Of course,today I don’t believe it was the “Holy Spirit.”!If anything,’it was (a) mental health issue(s).
I have to admit that I am not well versed in the differences between charismatic, Pentecostal, or holiness sects. I thought they were all the sane thing. I shouldn’t be surprised that they’re different given the proclivity fir Christian sects to divide again and again and again.
You’ve pegged them pretty well, Bruce. Over the years, they’ve been reluctantly accepted by mainline churches. After all, Charismatics are big givers, so today’s churches welcome them as long as they don’t bark TOO much during services.
But for all-around, greasy, religious comedy, nothing beats a 1970s big-haired Charismatic televangelist in a loud, wide-lapeled, polyester sport jacket with a five-inch wide tie. It’s magical.
I got a second article? Either my question was good or you are preaching at me! 🙂 I really found the “Nondenominational is Greek for Baptist” very funny and will be stealing that.
So I gather difference between Baptists and Pentecostals is the speaking in tongues bit and the difference between Pentecostals and Charismatics is the degree of crazy things they think they can do. So Pentecostals are Crazy Baptists and Charismatics are Very Crazy Baptists. Is that right?
https://theopolisinstitute.com/the-rise-and-dangers-of-presbyterialism/ One influence that is often understated in nondenominational churches is Reformed/Presbyterian theology.