In 2023, Richard, an Evangelical Christian, sent me an email, to which I responded in the post Dear Richard, the Evangelical Christian. Richard did not respond to my post, either by commenting or sending me an email. In 2024, Richard sent me another email, Dear Richard, the Evangelical Christian — Round Two. In what is turning out to be an annual affair, Richard sent me another email, which follows. I will attempt to respond to Richard again. (All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original.)
Bruce, it has been awhile since I last corresponded with you. I noticed that you provided a couple of updates on 3/5/2025 where you shared a bit more about your life growing up. At times, it sounded pretty tumultuous, like life can be. Jesus certainly did not have it easy either.
In what way did Jesus have it “hard”? Outside of the 48-72 hours detailing his arrest, crucifixion, and burial, I find nothing in Scripture that suggests Jesus had a hard life. He might have had such a life, but we have no evidence that justifies such a claim. Even when we consider his suffering, it didn’t last long and does not compare to those who suffer years on end. (Please see I Wish Christians Would Be Honest About Jesus’ Three Day Weekend.)
King Herod wanted to kill him, so Joseph was instructed to take the family to Egypt and he quickly did as he was told. There was a certain similarity between the one you thought was your Dad and Joseph.
Robert Gerencser was no Joseph. He was largely an absentee father who repeatedly moved his family across the country because he couldn’t pay the rent or properly care for his wife and children. Dad didn’t attend my school or sporting events, never sent my children gifts for Christmas after promising to do so year after year, and stole money and property that belonged to me. Imagine being sent to school without lunch money or having to shoplift to have clothes.
As far as Dad’s motivations, I suspect he wanted to be viewed by others as successful and financially well-off. Simply put, he lived beyond his means, and his family suffered. For years, I hated my dad for all the moving, and the fact that I attended ten schools in three states. This was no way to raise and care for children.
You found out considerably later in life that you undoubtedly had another Dad you had never met. Joseph had been advised by Gabriel that Jesus’ Dad was God the Father, although it sounds quite clear from the Bible that his parents never revealed his origin in life to Him. Fear of being at odds with the religious establishment of the day was probably why Jesus and his half-brothers were not told of His supernatural beginnings by His mother and step-father. I do not believe that their role in His life caused them to love Jesus any less than the other children they had.
I found out who my biological father was via a DNA test. You make a lot of claims about Jesus and his parentage but provide no evidence for these assertions. A DNA test for Jesus would be nice. I get it, by faith you believe the supernatural claims in the Bible. However, I am not a person of faith, so if you want me to believe your claims, I will need more evidence than personal opinions. You are free to believe what you want, but I suspect your emails are an attempt to persuade me of the truthfulness of your claims. So far, I am unpersuaded.
Growing up in life, I was always told that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. One of the major problems with the doctrine of eternal security is that human beings and angels both have free wills. Satan chose to rebel against God, along with a third of the angels in heaven, and, as a result, they were cast out of heaven for their attempted insurrection/rebellion. We, as human beings, can choose to follow Jesus or we can choose to walk away from Him.
There is so much wrong with this paragraph that I don’t know where to begin.
First, both Calvinism and Arminianism — in all their flavors — are taught in the Bible. I concluded long ago that the Bible can be used to prove almost anything; when determining which Christian sect is right, I decided all of them are. Each sect, church, pastor, and individual Christian appeals to the Bible as justification for their beliefs. Who is right, and who is wrong? How do we determine who is right?
I reject the notion that humans have libertarian free will. I didn’t believe this as an Evangelical, and I certainly don’t believe it now. A lifetime of Evangelical and rightwing indoctrination and conditioning largely determined what I would believe, both as a child and an adult. There was nothing “free” about this process. If you would like to have an in-depth discussion about free will, let me know, and I will write an in-depth post (or series of posts) on this subject.
Let me add that Satan is not mentioned anywhere in the Old Testament. Evangelicals make a lot of assumptions about Satan. For example, most Evangelicals believe that the snake in the Garden of Eden was Satan. However, there’s not a shred of evidence for this claim.
Judas Iscariot was given numerous opportunities by Jesus to avoid the path of destruction his life of betrayal charted for him, but the love of money was too strong a temptation for him to resist. It also did not help that he was a thief as well. Jesus was certainly willing to forgive him.
Not according to the Bible. Judas was the Son of Perdition, chosen by God to betray Jesus. Since Jesus was a lamb slain before the foundation of the world, every aspect of Jesus’s birth and death were predetermined. God is sovereign over all things, including Jesus’s life and death.
Where does the Bible say Jesus was willing to forgive Judas? No, Jesus, the God-man, knew exactly what would happen to him. He knew when, where, and how Judas would betray him.
Initially, when the two thieves were being crucified with Jesus, they both railed against Him and were as abusive as the others who were mocking Him. (Matthew 27:44). Yet, in Luke 23:39-43, we read that when one of the thieves asked Jesus in humility to remember him when He came into His kingdom, Jesus was quick to assure him that he would be with Him in paradise that very day. In this life, what counts is how we finish and not how we start out. The thief who had the best ending never even got baptized.
All of us are privileged to be alive at this time in human history. There is much deception and an inordinate amount of erroneous information.
The Bible tells the good, the bad, and the ugly. It has nothing to hide. When Jesus was crucified, his disciples concluded that he would stay dead, yet he showed Himself to them on multiple occasions prior to ascending into heaven. From being totally dispirited and discouraged, they became transformed and turned the world upside down with the Good News that death was defeated and we could be reconciled to God because Jesus died in our place for our sins.
Where does the Bible say one of the thieves got baptized? Both died on the cross, and were either left on the cross to rot or were thrown in an unmarked grave for criminals. I suspect Jesus ended up in a similar grave. There’s nothing in the Biblical account that suggests either thief was baptized.
Did the disciples really turn the world upside down? What evidence do you have for this claim? Jesus, at the time of his death, was largely a failure. When his followers gathered in the Upper Room after his death, how many were there? About 120. Jesus was largely ignored by both Jews and Gentiles alike, and it would be hundreds of years, thanks to Constantine, before Christianity numerically grew. I am not saying the disciples didn’t spread the gospel, but most Evangelicals grossly overestimate the influence Christians had on society during the early years of Christianity.
One of the biggest stumbling blocks that Satan uses today are “Christians” who become his mouthpieces/servants by words they say and actions they take. You had your share of such people crossing your path over the years Bruce. Even Job had to contend with that. His wife and his three friends were not much of a comfort to him during his trials. Jesus does not behave that way.
Let me be clear, I deconverted because I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity were true; that the core teaching of the church no longer made sense to me. (Please read The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) I didn’t leave Christianity because I was hurt, bitter, angry, or any of the other false reasons ascribed to my deconversion story. Most of my negative experiences with Christians came AFTER I deconverted, not before. While I have certainly met some kind, thoughtful Christians post-Jesus, I have received countless emails, blog comments, social media messages, and snail mail letters from hateful, mean-spirited, nasty bullies-for-Jesus. I am talking about thousands of such interactions. The Bible says you can judge believers based on the fruit their lives produce. All I see is a rotting corpse.
Although in recent years, you have been working overtime to convince others there is no God, God in His mercy still very much loves you. He came into this world to save sinners. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour.
Speak for yourself; I am not a sinner.
You can’t possibly know if God loves me. I could be an apostate or a reprobate. I see no evidence for a God who “loves me, cares for me, and has a wonderful plan for my life.” All I see is an absentee God who doesn’t give a shit about me. Of course, I don’t think God exists, so my argument is with the Bible’s God — a divine being created by humans. Let me add in passing, do you know there are numerous deities in the Bible, beginning in Genesis 1? I encourage you to check out Dr. Dan McClellan’s work on this subject.
I spend very little time trying to convince people of anything, let alone atheism. I am just one man with a story to tell. If people find my story helpful, I am grateful. However, I DO NOT evangelize people for atheism. Sure, I critique Evangelical Christianity, but I do not attempt to bring people to the light. I am content to write, and let people do with my writing what they will. Unlike Richard and countless other Evangelicals, I have never gone to a Christian blog or website and tried to get people to deconvert.
You have a multitude of physical ailments Bruce but you are still alive. Where there is life, there is hope.
Hope for what? You seem to think that I am lacking in some way; that my life is missing something important. How can you possibly know this? Yes, I have serious health problems. Yes, I will likely die sooner, and not later. I know my days are numbered. Yet, you want me to waste my time worshipping a non-existent deity? No thanks. Been there, done that. I have weighed the claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting.
I do not believe God sends anyone to hell. He gives us a free will. We choose to live how we want to live. The actions we take are what decide our final/ultimate destination. Romans is a very good book which explains the difference between living for the flesh or walking in
the Spirit. The flesh and its fleshly appetites bring death. The Spirit gives life. We all need to choose life!
If God is the sovereign creator of all things and the giver and taker of life, then our eternal destiny rests solely with him. Our salvation rests in God’s hands, not ours. According to the Bible, every word, thought, and deed is controlled by God. It seems in Richard’s theology, God is the only one who doesn’t have free will.
It is evident that Richard thinks my life is inferior and that what I need is what he has — Jesus. And if I would only read the book of Romans, I would understand this. First, I exegetically preached through the book of Romans twice. I know what the book says. Second, I am not interested in what the Bible says about anything. That’s why I ask people NOT to send me preachy emails. Richard ignored my request and has now sent me THREE preachy messages, as if he could possibly say something I haven’t heard countless times before.
Apart from chronic pain and chronic illness, I have a good life. I have been married to a wonderful woman for almost forty-seven years. We are blessed to have six adult children, three daughters-in-law, and sixteen awesome grandchildren. We own our home, drive a newer model automobile, and have four cats. I have, in every way, a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious life. Yes, death is stalking me, and, at times, I can feel its breath upon my neck. I try each and every day to live life to its fullest. I have no need for God, the church, or the Bible. Richard lives in a blinkered world where all that matters is Jesus. If that works for him — fine, but such a life does not interest me.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Richard, do you know the old preacher joke? – a preacher guy was doing the children’s talk in a Sunday sevice and asked the kids, ‘What’s brown with a bushy tail and eats nuts?’ A child replied, ‘Sure sounds like a squirrel to me, but the right answer’s usually jesus.’
Your email reads, to me anyway, as ‘jesus…blah,blah, jesus,some more blah and jesus-is-the-answer-to-every-question blah blah blah.’ You know, we’ve all thought about god, jesus and the holy ghost deeply – and some of us believed we were serving the creator of the universe and his two side-kicks, some of us for years……and then we came to completely different conclusions. Much to our horror sometimes, we saw that we were dealing with a fiction and not The Truth at all.
You don’t need to be a bible expert, or read Bruce’s blog, to appreciate that the Jesus story is almost entirely fabricated. Only Matthew and Luke contain a birth narrative (why am I so suddenly pretending to be in any way bible literate but I enjoy reading Bart Ehrman! 😂), and they are incompatible. No, they aren’t ‘the same’ story told from a different perspective, they’re different attempts to relate some clearly half heard, half baked rumour circulating amongst people who had no possible way of knowing the truth of their stories. As an independent observer with little bible knowledge my view is that the birth narratives are agenda driven fiction, the resurrection was a fiction built on the fact that Jesus’ followers just couldn’t accept that their Messiah had been crucified and his body thrown into a mass pit. Jesus probably existed and for a very short period of time appears to have attracted a cult following, though of course he had no miracle performing abilities. I feel sorry for Richard, though maybe he’s happy in his make believe world.