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Category: Atheism

Bruce, You Are a Fool, Says a Fundamentalist Christian Woman

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peanut gallery

Today, a Fundamentalist Christian woman named Brenda Moorfield left the following comment on the post titled How Dare I Badmouth IFB Evangelist CT Townsend! Says Fundamentalist Christian. My response is indented and italicized.

Both Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1 read, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’”

Brenda, what’s your objective? Surely you know that the Bible carries no weight with me; that I grant it no authority in my life. I am more than happy to discuss the nature and history of the Bible with you. I think you will find that I am quite conversant in all things Bible.

So, to the Bible, as interpreted by you, saying “Bruce Gerencser is a fool,” I say, so what? Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it’s true. The Bible is not evidence; it is a collection of books written by primarily unknown authors that make all sorts of claims. It is up to you, Brenda, to provide evidence for these claims.

You will find that presuppositionalist arguments carry no weight with me or most of the readers of this blog — many of whom are Christians. You presuppose that your peculiar version of the Christian God is the one, true God who created the universe; that nature, conscience, and divine revelation (the Bible) reveals to everyone, without exception, this God; that all humans intuitively know this God exists; that anyone who denies these “truths” is deliberately suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. You also believe that the Bible, as divine revelation from your God, is inerrant and infallible.

I reject these presuppositions out of hand. Let me be blunt, just because you say something doesn’t make it so. As a rationalist and skeptic, I expect actual evidence for your claims; not proof texts or regurgitated Fundamentalist talking points.

Some take these verses to mean that atheists are stupid, i.e., lacking intelligence. However, that is not the only meaning of the Hebrew word translated “fool.” In this text, the Hebrew word is nabal, which often refers to an impious person who has no perception of ethical or religious truth. The meaning of the text is not “unintelligent people do not believe in God.” Rather, the meaning of the text is “sinful people do not believe in God.”

Awesome, you know how to use Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. I find it interesting that you chose the third possible meaning of the word to make your point. The first meaning says that atheists are “stupid.” This claim — and it is a claim — is not factually supported. In general, atheists are more educated than Evangelical Christians. The more education one has, the less likely they are to believe in God; especially the Evangelical God. You commented on a post about Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist C.T. Townsend. If you are IFB or familiar with the movement, then you know IFB adherents are not known for being overly educated. The more Fundamentalist one is, the less likely they are to have a post-high school education. I don’t say this to say that Fundamentalists are “stupid.” I am saying that any suggestion that atheists, as a class of people, are stupid is a foolish and unwise claim. Are there stupid atheists? Absolutely. That said, most of the atheists I know are educated and well-read. Their atheism is rooted in knowledge and facts and a rationalist, humanistic understanding of religion and the world. That’s why we expect Evangelical zealots to interact with us on a rational, evidentiary basis. If you can do that, Brenda, I am more than happy to discuss with you anything you want. However, if you are here to quote Bible verses and preach, then I am not interested in hearing what you have to say. Yeah, I know, I have a hardened heart; I’m an apostate; I’m a reprobate.

In other words, it is a wicked thing to deny God, and a denial of God is often accompanied by a wicked lifestyle. The verse goes on to list some other characteristics of the irreligious: “They are corrupt; their deeds are vile; / there is no one who does good.” Psalm 14 is a study on the universal depravity of mankind.

Many atheists are very intelligent. It is not intelligence, or a lack thereof, that leads a person to reject belief in God. It is a lack of righteousness that leads a person to reject belief in God. Many people do not object to the idea of a Creator, as long as that Creator minds His own business and leaves them alone. What people reject is the idea of a Creator who demands morality from His creation. Rather than struggle against a guilty conscience, some people reject the idea of God altogether. Psalm 14:1 calls this type of person a “fool.”

Psalm 14:1 says that denying God’s existence is commonly based on a desire to lead a wicked life. Several prominent atheists have admitted the truth of this. Some, such as author Aldous Huxley, have openly admitted that a desire to avoid moral restraints was a motivation for their disbelief:

(Huxley quote deleted. It is irrelevant and an attempt to poison the well. I could just as easily say that Jeffrey Dahmer, Donald Trump, and David Hyles are Christians.)

Let’s see if I understand what you are saying here: atheists are corrupt, atheists are vile; atheists desire to lead a wicked life. Do you have any evidence for these claims? How many atheists do you know? How many of them have you actually talked to about their worldviews and how they live their day-to-day lives?

What you are saying to me directly is that the reasons I left Christianity and embraced atheism are because I am vile, corrupt, and have the desire to live a wicked life. (You could have quoted the “sins” in Romans 1 as well.) Evangelicals routinely accuse me of being a closeted homosexual. Their evidence? I have LGBTQ friends and I wear rainbow-colored suspenders.) Ask yourself this, Brenda. Did I immediately stop being a moral, ethical man the moment I said I was no longer a Christian? Did I stop being a loving, thoughtful husband, father, grandfather, neighbor, and friend? Did I have secret sins in my life, and becoming an atheist gave me to the freedom to lie, steal, cheat, and fuck whomever I want? Do you realize how silly this sounds?

Here’s what I know. Christianity has no corner on the morality market. You seem to forget that I was a pastor for twenty-five years. I counseled scores of church members and heard the deep, dark secrets of colleagues in the ministry. I can tell you this: Jesus is not vaccine against immoral and unethical behavior. Bible-believing Christians, who are filled with the Holy Ghost, can and do commit crimes and cause harm to others. I pastored people who committed all sorts of heinous crimes, everything from murder to sexual abuse to adultery to domestic violence, and numerous other crimes and lesser “sinful behaviors,” while not criminal, caused untold harm to their spouses and children. As far as preachers are concerned, please peruse the Black Collar Crime Series. You will find almost 1,000 stories about criminal misconduct by pastors, evangelists, missionaries, youth pastors, worship leaders, and other church leaders — mainly sex crimes. So any claim that Christians are moral or that Christianity provides morality that atheists don’t have is laughable and not supported by facts.

Further, I have been blogging since 2007. Thousands of Evangelicals have commented on my posts, sent me emails, or sent me messages on social media. By and large, their interactions with me have been caustic and argumentative. Many of these so-called followers of the Prince of Peace were hateful, vile, and nasty, threatening me with judgment, Hell, and death. Several have threatened to murder me; another threatened to assault my daughter with Down Syndrome. Others have visited other blogs and tried to attack my character. A new tactic is to seek out my family and acquaintances and try to evangelize them or play mind games. So, don’t tell me about the supposed moral superiority of Christianity. Thousands of former Evangelicals read my writing. Many of them will tell you, myself included, that we have met and know many fine people whom are Evangelical Christians. They will also tell you that Evangelicalism — especially the IFB church movement — is a poisonous tree that produces poisonous fruit. How about actually interacting with and learning from Evangelicals-turned-atheists/agnostics instead of pompously and arrogantly preaching AT them? Do better, Brenda, do better.

Belief in a divine Being is accompanied by a sense of accountability to that Being. So, to escape the condemnation of conscience, which itself was created by God, some simply deny the existence of God. They tell themselves, “There is no overseer of the world. There is no Judgment Day. I can live as I please.” The moral pull of the conscience is thus more easily ignored.

Belief in God has never stopped anyone from doing what they want to do. People do what they do — good, bad, and indifferent. All of us are as moral and ethical as we choose to be. I have murdered and raped as many people as I want. I have robbed as many banks as I want. I have sexually assaulted as many people as I want. I don’t want to, so I don’t — no God needed. If the only reason, Brenda, you are not a murderer, rapist, child molester, or thief is that you believe in God, then by all means keep believing in God. However, I suspect you know as I do that if you became an atheist today that you would be as moral and ethical today as you were when you were a Christian. People don’t suddenly become serial killers the moment they stop believing in God.

As far as accountability is concerned, I am accountable to my spouse, children, and close friends. I don’t need a magical being to keep me moral. I love my wife. I love my family. I love my friends and neighbors. And because I do, I want to be a good man; a loving man; a kind man. I am sure I frequently fail. but the bent of my life is toward love for those that matter to me.

Trying to convince oneself there is no God is unwise. The point of “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” is that it is an impious, sinful heart that will deny God. The atheist’s denial flies in the face of much evidence to the contrary, including his own conscience and the universe he lives in.

Most atheists don’t convince themselves against extant evidence that there is no God. Have you actually had a serious, lengthy discussion with an Evangelical-turned-atheist; a discussion where they explained to you their reasons for deconverting? I doubt it. Your comment reveals a total lack of understanding about what it is atheists actually believe and why they left Christianity.

What evidence can you provide, Brenda, for the existence of your peculiar version of the Christian God? Not A GOD, not a generic God, THE GOD, the one, true, everlasting God you worship. Since God commands you to give an answer to the hope that lies within you, please provide evidence — outside of Bible prooftexts and generic appeals to the natural world (creation) and morality (conscience), both of which can be adequately explained by science — for the existence of your particular deity.

A lack of evidence of God’s existence is not the true reason atheists reject a belief in God. Their rejection is due to a desire to live free of the moral constraints God requires and to escape the guilt that accompanies the violation of those constraints.

Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”) You are just preaching now. I suspect that was your goal. You really don’t have any interest in reaching me with the gospel. You are more concerned with being right; more concerned with putting an atheist in his place with God’s inerrant, infallible Word; more concerned about telling fellow Fundamentalists that you sure told that critic of C.T. Townsend. There’s no compassion, concern, love, or understanding in your comment from someone who invested little to no time in understanding my story or interacting me as an equal.

I deleted your lengthy quote of Romans 1:18-25. Did you think I have never read this passage of Scripture, or that countless zealots before you haven’t quoted these verses to me? As a pastor, I preached from this text numerous times. I know what it says inside and out. I spent over 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible during the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry. If you comment further, please refrain from prooftexts. If you have not done so, please read the comment policy — which you violated numerous times. The only reason I approved your comment is that I thought my response to you would be helpful to both Christians and unbelievers alike.

You ending your comment with Romans 1:18-25 is you saying that what you said in your comment is God speaking, not you; that if I have a problem with what you said, I have a problem with God. No, Brenda, I have a problem with you. My goal in this post is to both chastise and correct you. You could have had a thoughtful discussion with me. Instead, you wasted it.

Be well.

Saved by Reason,

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Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce, You Are Sick and in Pain Because God is Trying to Get Your Attention

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god trying to get my attention

The recent success of an interview (28,000 views) I did with Tim Mills, the Harmonic Atheist, has brought me increased attention from Evangelical Christians.

Video Link

The same happened with the Vice News interview (1.8 million views) I did two years ago.

Video Link

Media interviews I do always bring out knives, pitchforks, and pyres, but it seems, at least to me, Evangelical hostility levels have dramatically increased, so much so that I have had thoughts of throwing in the towel. So much vitriol toward an insignificant atheist. What gives? Judging by their attacks, you would think I had kidnapped their firstborn or slept with their spouse. One man, whom I have banned and blocked numerous times, is trying to get at me through family, friends, and acquaintances. Yesterday, he went after my youngest son’s transgender roommate. That didn’t go very well for this Evangelical man. He happened to run into a young man who is more than capable of handling themselves. In fact, I suspect they enjoyed eviscerating this man. Earlier this week, my youngest daughter received a cryptic email from an Evangelical man, saying that he was trying to get a hold of me. Of course, he wasn’t trying to contact me. I am one of the most accessible people on the Internet. I am but a click or two away. No, this man wanted to let me know that he could get at me and my family. Why else did he list all the publicly available email addresses for me, including several email addresses I haven’t used in twenty years?

The fact that I have a lot of serious health problems has made it easy for Evangelicals to say that these maladies are God’s judgment or God trying to get my attention. The unrelenting pain that is literally choking the life out of me is “God” trying to get my attention. Someday, hopefully not today, tomorrow, or next week, I will die. I know that I am on the short side of life; that either disease, accident, or the damn cat will one day put an end to me. I can only imagine what Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) zealots will say on their blogs and what preachers say in their sermons upon hearing reports of my demise. “Bruce knows the truth now!” “Atheist Bruce Gerencser now knows that God exists and Hell is real!” These followers of Jesus will feign sadness as they speak of my death, but they will silently say to themselves, “that God-hating, Devil-loving motherfreaker got exactly what he deserved. No one mocks my God and gets by with it. ” (Motherfreaker is a Baptist swearword. An Evangelical recently got upset with me because I used a swear word in one of my posts. I am sure you can imagine my response to him. Please see Evangelical Swear Words.) 🙂

Let me circle back around to this idea that God gave me fibromyalgia, gastroparesis, and degenerative spine disease because he is trying to get my attention; that every night I writhe in pain in bed, unable to sleep, my suffering is a message of love from the Christian deity.

What’s with God “trying” to do anything? Is he weak and powerless, unable to do what he wants? If God is not willing that any should perish, how is possible that Bruce Gerencser, a frail, broken-down biped, can thwart God’s will? Surely God can easily and effortlessly reach me at any time. “Nothing is too hard for God” and “with God all things are possible,” the Bible says. Yet, it seems that saving me is too hard for God and that it is impossible for the Big Kahuna to reach me.

If my suffering is God trying to get my attention, does this mean that if I repent and put my faith and trust in Jesus, my chronic pain and illnesses will immediately and magically disappear? Crickets are all I hear from Evangelicals. They know there is no connection between my health problems and God. None. Shit happens, and this is my shit.

I have a three-year-old redheaded grandson named Silas. He’s a handful. Silas has no fear of anything. He must be watched at all times. Our living room is small, 16’x20′. We have three lamps in the room, along with an overhead light. I HATE the overhead light. My grandkids know not to turn the light on when I am in the room. Not Silas. He will run over to the wall switch, give me a look — you know, THAT look — turn on the light, and run off. No matter what I say or do, Silas keeps flipping the switch. Mischief is his middle name, some sort of karmic payback for my own childhood mischief. If my mom were alive, she would be smiling.

Imagine if I determined to teach Silas a lesson about the overhead light. I decided that the next time Silas turned the light on I would break his arm. Boy, that would get his attention, right? This is EXACTLY what Evangelicals are saying when they say that God has afflicted me to get my attention or to teach me a lesson. What, exactly, did I ever do to God to deserve such punishment? Or is God okay with Bruce, the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist, and that it is Evangelicals who want to see me suffer? Sadly, many Evangelicals are sadists. Unbelievers have what they can’t have, so they rail against them, uttering threats of suffering, death, and Hell.

If I broke Silas’ arm because he kept turning on the light, I would deserve to be arrested and locked up for my crime. So it is for the Evangelical deity who inflicts suffering on finite beings. If such a deity exists, he is unworthy of our worship.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Dear Evangelicals: Insanity is Doing the Same Things Over and Over and Expecting Different Results

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insanity

I interact with Evangelical Christians of all stripes virtually every day; on Facebook, YouTube, via email, and responding to comments on this site. I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I attended an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) Bible college in the mid-70s and spent twenty-five years pastoring IFB, Sovereign Grace, Christian Union, Southern Baptist, and non-denominational churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I know Evangelicalism inside and out.

One thing I have learned in my sixty-six years of life is this: Evangelicals seem to have a hard time adapting or changing their ways to reach and influence unbelievers. In the IFB church movement, in particular, churches and parachurch organizations are using the same techniques and methodologies that they were using in the 1970s and 1980s. Our culture has moved on, but Evangelicals continue to sing the old gospel song, I Shall Not be Moved.

Evangelicalism is dying on the vine. Evangelicals often object when I make this claim, saying look at all of the growing megachurches! What they don’t mention, however, is that the vast majority of church attendance growth comes from transfers — people moving their membership from one church to another. All around the country, smaller Evangelical churches, whose memberships have been pilfered by larger congregations, are closing their doors. New convert numbers are in decline, as are baptisms. There is also a huge statistical disconnect between the membership roll and actual church attendance. On any given Sunday, half of Southern Baptist church members are not in church. Evangelical church growth experts are alarmed over the attendance decline among young adults. The rise of the NONES — atheists, agnostics, and people who are indifferent towards religion — scares the shit out of them, as does the increasing number of people who are “dones” — people who are done with church.

Knowing all these things, what do Evangelicals do to stem declines in attendance, conversions, and baptisms? The same things they have always done. Evangelicals have been waging culture wars for a hundred years. They are seemingly clueless as to how their wars are perceived by unbelievers and non-Evangelical Christians. Either that or they don’t care. Today, Evangelicals are one of the most hated religious groups in America.

As I mentioned above, I interact with Evangelicals almost every day, sometimes multiple times a day. As I pondered writing this post, I made a list of techniques Evangelicals attempt to use to win me to Jesus:

  • Love Bombing — pretending to “love” me, hoping that doing so will give them an in with me. Such people express deep love for me and often offer to buy me lunch/dinner or give me money.
  • Feigned Friendship — pretending to befriend me, hoping that becoming my friend will make me more willing to hear what they have to say. Evangelicals frequently send me friend requests on Facebook, even though we have absolutely nothing in common. Some of them will badger me about accepting their friendship. This approach usually results in me bluntly telling them why I do not want to be best buds with them. If all else fails, I tell them to go fuck themselves.
  • Threats of Judgment and Hell — telling me that I am under the judgment of God and headed for Hell when I die. How they think this approach will draw me to Jesus is beyond me.
  • Proof Texting — using Bible verses to show me I am wrong and why I need to repent of my sins and get saved. People seem to forget that I was a pastor for twenty-five years; that I likely know a lot more about what the Bible says and teaches than they do. Many Evangelicals are woefully ignorant about the Bible. Once beyond their proof texts, they flounder.
  • Philosophical Arguments — arguments used to prove the existence of God, God-given morality, or defend God from culpability for evil, pain, and suffering.

None of these approaches works with me. It’s not that I am a reprobate or an apostate — as many Evangelicals allege. Their claims don’t make sense to me. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) I find them to be irrational and illogical. I have been listening to Evangelicals for sixteen years. I can’t tell you the last time I have heard an original or novel argument from an Evangelical apologist. Take Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen. He has written thousands of words about me; countless posts that attack me or respond to something I have written. Thiessen’s position on anything and everything is this: the Bible is right, and you are wrong. End of discussion. Of course, “what the Bible says” actually means Thiessen’s personal interpretations of an ancient religious text. He is not special in this regard. Evangelicals are largely “God (Bible) said it, I believe it” Christians — that is until the Bible conflicts with how they want to live their lives. Then, what the Bible says is just a matter of personal opinion.

Here’s the thing: none of these things matters to the average unbeliever. What does matter is how supposedly born-again, sanctified, and filled-with-the-Holy-Ghost Bible believers live their daily lives. And quite frankly what unbelievers see (and experience) angers and disgusts them. God isn’t the problem, Evangelicals are. It is Evangelicals (and conservative Catholics and Mormons) who gave us Donald Trump. It is Evangelicals who were behind the 1/6 Insurrection. It is Evangelicals behind banning abortion, persecuting LGBTQ people, banning books, and restricting sex education. Worse, many Evangelicals are hell-bent on forcing the American people to obey, under the penalty of law, their interpretation of the Bible. In other words, they want to force their beliefs on secular, unbelieving, non-Evangelical Americans. Is it any surprise that many Americans hate Evangelicals? They want to return the United States to the good old days of the 1950s; a time when Christianity ruled supreme, LGBTQ people were deep in their proverbial closets, Blacks knew their place, and women were keepers of the home, busy with domestic work, cooking meals, bearing children, and fucking their husbands on demand.

If Evangelicals truly want to reach unbelievers, I suggest they stop talking and begin loving their neighbors as themselves. Instead of trying to evangelize people, how about loving them as they are; accepting them as they are; embracing them as fellow travelers on planet earth. Show your faith by how you treat others. Be a people who are known for how they treat people who are different from them; people who are known for their love, mercy, and compassion towards the “least of these.”

Will Evangelicals listen to a lowly, no-account Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist? Probably not. The Titanic is sinking, and Evangelical are on the deck shouting, I’m right, I’m right, I’m right, as the ship turns over and drowns them in the sea.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce, You Are Headed for Hell, You Never Were a Christian, Please Pray This Prayer

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Two weeks ago, my interview with Tim Mills, The Harmonic Atheist, was published on YouTube. As of today, over 20,000 people have watched our interview.

Video Link

With the interest in hearing my story have come scores of Evangelical Christians telling me that I am headed for Hell; that I never was a Christian; that I just needed to pray a simple prayer to Jesus and he would save me. Numerous zealots have weighed in on my story, certain that they know exactly what is “wrong” with me and what I must do to avoid being eternally tortured by their peculiar version of God. Several Calvinists weighed in, saying that it is evident I am a reprobate — one who is beyond the grace of God and cannot be saved. One man simply said, “Bruce is full of horseshit.”

Such is the nature of YouTube. Most content creators don’t moderate comments, so Evangelicals can and do bully and attack people who run afoul of their theology, beliefs, and practices. Tim did delete several comments that were over the top. I appreciate him doing so. On this site, I have strict commenting rules, which Evangelicals routinely ignore. If I had the same comment policy as YouTube, I would be overrun with abusive comments (as was the case years ago). There was a time when hateful comments really got under my skin and caused harm both to me and to the readers of this blog. Sometimes the hostile comments got so bad that I stopped blogging. Those days are long gone. I returned to blogging in December 2014. I made sure that I instituted strict policies governing Evangelicals. I also let Evangelicals know that if they sent me hateful emails I would publicly expose them for doing so. This has dramatically cut down the negative emails and comments I receive, but, as regular readers know, Evangelicals still feel led by the Holy Spirit to “share” with me what Hey-Zeus has laid upon their hearts.

I was raised in the Evangelical church, attended Bible college, and pastored churches for twenty-five years. I preached countless sermons about Hell. I fully understand what Evangelicals believe about Hell, the Lake of Fire, and eternal, everlasting punishment. And my critics KNOW that I know these things. Yet, over the past fifteen years, Evangelicals have told me I am headed for Hell more times than I can count. What do they hope to gain by telling me this? Or is the real issue that they find my story threatening; a reminder of the fact that if someone such as I can lose their faith anyone can? So they hurl hellfire and brimstone my way, hoping to quell their own questions and doubts. That’s why they rarely engage in meaningful discussions with me. Questions and pushback from someone who knows the Bible inside and out threatens their spiritual security, so they stand on the corner across the street from my house and chuck rocks.

Many Evangelicals try to discredit me by saying that I never was a Christian; that I was deceived; that I met a false Jesus. By doing this, they can, with a wave of their hand, ignore my story. The problem with this approach is that they have no evidence for their claim. Evangelicals cannot provide one church member or colleague of mine in the ministry who, at the time I was a pastor, believed I was a “false Christian.” Not one. They can, however, find numerous people who will tell them that I was a devoted follower of Jesus; that I took seriously God’s calling on my life. I wasn’t perfect, to be sure. I am sure my wife, Polly, and our six grown children could share plenty of stories about their husband and father being less than Christian. However, they would likely testify that the bent of my life was certainly toward holiness and love for God.

Many Evangelicals can’t square my story with their soteriology and interpretation of the Bible — especially Baptists — so they assuage their theological confusion by saying I never was a Christian. Instead of questioning their theology or trying to make my story fit their beliefs, they lazily decree that I was a false Christian.

I hate it when people say I never was a Christian. By doing this, Evangelicals discredit fifty of my six-six years of life on planet earth. They pretend that those years and how I lived my life don’t exist. When someone tells me their story I generally believe them. If I have doubt about some aspect of their story — say Evangelicals who say they were atheists before they got saved — I ask questions. I don’t automatically assume they are lying. When someone tells me they are a Christian, I believe them. It is their life, their story. Who I am to say that their experiences are invalid? I may think that some of their experiences won’t survive rational, skeptical examination, but unless they are directly interacting with me or trying to use their subjective experiences as evidence for the existence of God, I am inclined to accept their stories at face value. Life is too short for me to spend much time deconstructing the lives of others. I wish Evangelicals would take the same approach with me. Read my story, ask questions, and I will respond. Read my story and threaten me with Hell or discredit my life? I am likely to gut you like a fish.

The strangest approach comes from Evangelicals who think that prayer is some sort of magic spell; that if I would just sincerely pray a prayer they prescribe (which often contains heretical theology), Jesus would hear my prayer, save me from my sin, and give me a home in Heaven when I die. Every time an Evangelical takes this approach with me, I stop what I am doing and pray their prescribed prayer. I have done this countless times, yet I remain an atheist. Either prayer doesn’t work the way they think it does, or God is a myth. My money is on the latter.

As many Evangelicals-turned-atheists/agnostics have done, when I began having doubts about Christianity and the Bible, I pleaded with God to show me the truth. I begged him to show me a way to remain a Christian. One former friend and a colleague in the ministry told me that I needed to stop asking questions and just faith-it. A former church member told me that I needed to stop reading books. “Just read the Bible, Bruce,” she told me. Of course, I couldn’t do that. I had always been a voracious reader who was willing to change my beliefs if warranted. As congregants and pastor friends, they admired my intellectualism, but now they wanted me to return to an ignorant, child-like faith. My best friend, at the time, took a different approach with me. He wrote me a blistering email that said I was under the influence of Satan, unstable in all my ways. He made no attempt to pull me back from the abyss. Instead, he castigated me for ruining my family. None of these people, and others like them, were willing or able to honestly, openly, and without reservation, interact with me. Would their intervention have made a difference? No. I knew that their answers were no match for my questions. I was reading non-Evangelical scholars and theologians. I was also reading books by prominent unbelievers. I had spent twenty-five years reading books by Evangelical authors, so there was no need to re-read their books. Solomon said, “there is nothing new under the sun,” and that is especially true when it comes to Evangelical theology.

As my knowledge increased and the truth came into better focus, I once again asked God to step in and save me from myself. Alas, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords was silent, and he has remained silent until this very moment. I have concluded, then, that either God doesn’t give a shit about me or he doesn’t exist. All the evidence suggests to me that he doesn’t exist.

There’s nothing I can do to stop Evangelicals from doing what Evangelicals do. All I am saying in this post to Evangelicals is this: you might want to try a different approach with me (and atheists, in general). Threats of Hell fall on deaf ears. Suggesting that I was never a Christian only brings laughs and incredulity. And finally, asking me to pray shallow, often heretical prayers is making you look bad. How you frame the gospel in your prescribed prayers suggest that you really don’t understand the Christian gospel at all. Instead of asking me to pray a prayer, you might actually want to read your Bible and seriously study Christian soteriology. Maybe you are the one who isn’t saved. 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Some Atheists Think I was Stupid for not Deconverting Sooner

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stupid-idiots

Several days ago, an atheist told me I must have been pretty “stupid” if it took me fifty years to realize that Christianity was false. He proudly told me that he figured out as a child that God was a myth, and from that point forward he was an atheist. He added that “God” was no different from Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. In other words, he was saying that I must have been pretty dull if it took me five decades of my life to figure out what he figured out as a mere child.

Most atheists who take this approach with me grew up in nominal Christian homes Typically, they have little to no understanding of Evangelical theology and practice. Lacking knowledge and understanding of that which they criticize, these atheists set themselves up as the standard for deconversion. In their minds, anyone with any sense at all should be able to figure out there’s no God by the time he reaches sixth grade.

These hyperbolic atheists seem to not understand how Fundamentalist religious indoctrination and conditioning make it impossible for people to “see” the truth about God, Jesus, the Bible, and Christianity. I grew up in a dysfunctional Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) home. God, church, and the Bible permeated every aspect of my life. One-hundred-eighty times or more a year, I attended services and events that reinforced IFB theological and social beliefs and practices. That’s one service every other day. And then there were private acts of personal piety: daily prayer and Bible reading.

At the age of five, I told my mom that God wanted me to be a preacher when I grew up. Ten years later, I got saved and baptized, and two weeks later I stood before the church and told them God was calling me to preach. Several weeks after that, I preached my first sermon. At the age of nineteen, I enrolled at Midwestern Baptist College to study for the ministry. I married a preacher’s daughter. Together, we spent twenty-five years in the ministry. My life was all about the Evangelical God.

I spent almost fifty years in the Evangelical bubble. In the bubble, everything made sense; everything was internally consistent. Imagine a world where everyone has similar beliefs and moral values. Imagine where everything modeled to you as a child by adults and people in positions of authority reinforces IFB beliefs and practices. Imagine being part of a sect that separated itself from the “world”; from everything contrary to their version of “truth.” Imagine long lists of rules and regulations (church standards) that governed virtually every aspect of your life, from the length of your hair to the clothing you wear. Imagine being taught that God is all-knowing and all-seeing, and he will punish any deviations from church standards. All of these things taken together make one thing very clear: I couldn’t have been anything other than what I was.

My path in life was predetermined by my upbringing and intense religious conditioning and indoctrination. By the time I was old enough to understand life, it was already too late. Both counselors I have had over the years have told me that it is remarkable that I escaped the Evangelical bubble — especially as a preacher. By the time people reach the age of fifty, they rarely are willing to abandon beliefs they have held their entire lives. For me personally, I had invested my entire life in servitude to God and the church. I had sacrificed my financial and physical well-being seeking spiritual fulfillment and eternal life. The sunk costs were so great that it was almost impossible for me to walk away (and for Polly to walk away with me). Yet, I did. Why? Because I valued intellectual honesty. So stupid I was not. When my beliefs were challenged by evidence I couldn’t overcome, I changed my beliefs. And that’s why I am an atheist today.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Most nominal religious homes.

Who is Bruce Gerencser and Other Questions According to ChatGPT?

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chatgpt

I spent several hours on Sunday playing around with ChatGPT. I asked the AI several questions, and what follows are the responses it gave me. I am astounded by how accurate its responses were. My corrections of the AI are found in [ ].

Who is Bruce Gerencser?

Gerencser is a former Christian pastor and writer who is known for his blog “The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser.” He was a pastor in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) denomination for many years before leaving the ministry and eventually becoming an atheist. [I didn’t remain in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement, leaving in the late 1980s, eighteen years before I deconverted.]

Gerencser’s blog explores a wide range of topics related to religion, including his own experiences as a pastor, his journey from faith to atheism, and his critiques of various religious beliefs and practices. He is also a vocal advocate for the separation of church and state, and frequently speaks out against the influence of religion in politics.

Gerencser’s writing has been featured in a number of publications, including The Washington Post, The Huffington Post, and Patheos. He has also published several books, including “I’m a Christian and I’m an Atheist: A Memoir of God and Social Justice” and “The Bible and the Closet: How I Lost My Faith and Found Myself.” [I have not published any books. I am quoted in numerous books.]

Who is Polly Gerencser?

Polly Gerencser is the wife of Bruce Gerencser. Like her husband, she was also a devout Christian and a member of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) denomination. However, she eventually left the church and became an atheist. [Polly didn’t remain in the IFB church movement either.]

Polly has written about her own experiences with Christianity and her journey away from it on her blog, “Leaving Fundamentalism.” She has been open about the emotional and psychological toll that leaving her faith has taken on her, including the loss of friendships and strained relationships with family members who remain devout believers. [Polly has written very little about her experiences. She sat for some questions years ago and is featured frequently and prominently in my story.]

Along with her husband Bruce, Polly has been a vocal advocate for the separation of church and state and a critic of the harmful aspects of fundamentalist Christianity. Together, they have written and spoken extensively about their experiences and their perspectives on religion and secularism.

Is Bruce Gerencser an Atheist?

Yes, Bruce Gerencser is an atheist. He was previously a Christian pastor and missionary, but he eventually left the ministry and renounced his Christian faith. Since then, he has been a vocal critic of Christianity and organized religion in general, and has written and spoken extensively about his experiences and his perspectives on religion and secularism.

In his writing and speaking, Gerencser has been open about the emotional and psychological toll that leaving his faith has taken on him, including the loss of friendships and strained relationships with family members who remain devout believers. However, he has also expressed a sense of liberation and a renewed commitment to living a life based on reason, evidence, and compassion.

Is Bruce Gerencser a Christian?

Bruce Gerencser is a former Christian pastor and writer who now identifies as an atheist. He has publicly stated that he no longer believes in the existence of God or the truth of Christian doctrine. Therefore, it would not be accurate to describe him as a Christian.

Is Bruce Gerencser a Conservative?

Bruce Gerencser was a conservative Christian for many years, and he served as a pastor in conservative churches for over 25 years. However, he has since undergone a significant change in his political and religious views, and he now describes himself as a progressive, liberal, and humanistic thinker.

Gerencser has been open about his evolution in thought, and he has written extensively about his journey from conservative Christianity to progressive humanism. He now advocates for a more inclusive, tolerant, and compassionate approach to religion and politics, and he is highly critical of many conservative and fundamentalist views and practices. Overall, while Gerencser has a background in conservatism, his current beliefs and values reflect a more progressive and liberal perspective.

Bruce Gerencser, Separation of Church and State

Bruce Gerencser is a strong advocate for the separation of church and state. He believes that the government should not favor or endorse any particular religious belief or practice, and that individuals should be free to practice their religion or hold no religious beliefs without interference or coercion from the government.

Gerencser has been critical of many conservative and fundamentalist Christians who seek to impose their religious beliefs on others through legislation or government action. He believes that such efforts are unconstitutional and violate the principles of religious freedom and equal protection under the law.

Gerencser has also been a vocal critic of public schools that promote religious beliefs or practices, arguing that such actions violate the separation of church and state and are unfair to students who do not share those beliefs. He supports a secular education system that is inclusive of all beliefs and backgrounds and does not favor any particular religion.

Overall, Gerencser believes that the separation of church and state is a fundamental principle of American democracy, and he works to promote and defend this principle through his writing and activism.

What Does Bruce Gerencser Think About Donald Trump?

Bruce Gerencser has been highly critical of Donald Trump, both during his presidential campaign and throughout his time in office. Gerencser is a progressive and liberal thinker who opposes many of Trump’s policies and views, and he believes that Trump’s presidency was detrimental to the United States and to the world.

Gerencser has been particularly critical of Trump’s rhetoric and behavior, which he believes are divisive, cruel, and unethical. He has also been critical of Trump’s policies on immigration, healthcare, the environment, and other issues, arguing that they prioritize the interests of the wealthy and powerful over the needs of ordinary people.

Gerencser has been a vocal advocate for political and social justice, and he believes that Trump’s presidency represented a setback for these values. However, he has also expressed hope that Trump’s defeat in the 2020 presidential election represents an opportunity for the United States to move forward and build a more inclusive, compassionate, and equitable society. Overall, Gerencser believes that Donald Trump’s presidency was a negative force in American politics and that his legacy will be one of division, corruption, and extremism.

Bruce Gerencser, Leaving Christianity Story

Bruce Gerencser is a former Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor who left Christianity and became an atheist. He has shared his story of leaving Christianity on his blog and in other public forums.

Gerencser grew up in an IFB family and became a pastor himself, serving in various IFB churches for over 25 years. [I pastored four non-IFB churches.] However, over time, he began to question the teachings and practices of the IFB movement, particularly its strict rules and lack of accountability. He also became troubled by the prevalence of abuse and misconduct within the movement and the way these issues were often covered up or ignored by church leaders.

As Gerencser continued to explore his doubts and questions, he eventually came to the conclusion that he no longer believed in the existence of God or the truth claims of Christianity. He resigned from his position as pastor and publicly announced his deconversion on his blog in 2008. [I actually left the ministry in 2005, three years before I deconverted.]

Since then, Gerencser has become a vocal critic of the IFB movement and of Christianity more broadly. He has spoken out against the abuses and harms he believes are perpetuated by religion and has advocated for greater transparency and accountability within religious communities. He has also written about his own personal journey of leaving Christianity and the challenges and opportunities that come with this transition

Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church Movement

The Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement is a subset of Baptist Christianity that emphasizes the authority and inerrancy of the Bible, the need for personal conversion and salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, and separation from the world and from other Christians who do not share their beliefs and practices.

The IFB movement emerged in the mid-20th century as a reaction against what some perceived as the liberalization and compromise of mainstream Baptist denominations. IFB churches often have strict rules and standards of conduct for their members, including dress codes, prohibitions on secular entertainment and activities, and strong emphasis on evangelism and Bible study.

Critics of the IFB movement have raised concerns about its authoritarian leadership, lack of accountability, and the prevalence of abuse and misconduct within some IFB churches. In recent years, there have been several high-profile cases of abuse and cover-up within IFB churches, leading to increased scrutiny and calls for reform within the movement.

It is worth noting that not all Baptist churches or Christians identify as IFB, and that there is a wide diversity of beliefs and practices within the broader Baptist tradition.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.