David Tee/Derrick Thomas Thiessen is the tall man in the back
Dr. David Tee, an Evangelical preacher whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, thinks my friend Ben Berwick (MM) and I owe him an apology for some sort of offense that resides only in the dark, empty depths of his mind.
We are still waiting for both MM and BG to apologize and take responsibility for the foul things they have said about and to us. They won’t do it because in their minds, they think they are doing what is right.
I think I speak for Ben when I say that we haven’t done anything worthy of an apology, so one will not be coming anytime soon. Both of us work very hard not to cause unnecessary offense, but when it comes to Thiessen, to speak the truth about him means causing him to “feel” offense. Thiessen speaks in the plural, saying “we are still waiting” for you to apologize. Who is the other person or persons we allegedly offended? Or is this feigned offense all about a butthurt preacher getting upset by something we may have written that he disagrees with?
Memo to Derrick Thiessen: No apology will be forthcoming. Do I regret a few things I have said about you over the years? Sure, but on most accounts, I have written about you truthfully and honestly. You have been given ample opportunity to set the record straight or defend your beliefs, but you choose not to do so, painting yourself as a martyr who is being wrongly “attacked” by atheists and agnostics. You typically write several posts about Ben and me every week. Never charitable, never honest, you choose to paint both of us in a negative light. That’s fine. Such is the nature of the Internet, right? Yet, shouldn’t we expect better behavior from one of God’s chosen ones? Especially, a so-called man of God? What would Jesus do (WWJD), Derrick? Not write two posts a week about two bloggers who, according to you, no one reads (another lie you repeatedly tell).
These days, I rarely respond to the basement-dwelling Thiessen. This post is my reminder to him that he should not expect an apology from me. I sent Derrick a 20″x30″ glossy photo of me pole dancing in the nude. I thought that would satiate his call for apologies and other desires he may have, but alas, Bruce Gerencser swinging in all his glory didn’t do it. Oh well, I tried. (In case Derrick has a hard time with sarcasm and satire, this last paragraph was both.)
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, is a Fundamentalist Christian blogger who has spent the past few years using my writing without credit or attribution for what he calls “teachings.” He takes a similar approach with my friend Ben Berwick. Thiessen has written more posts about the two of us that I can count. Sometimes, I just ignore the man. He’s little more than a gnat flying around my head on a warm summer day. These days, I selectively ignore Thiessen, choosing to only respond to posts I consider so egregious that they demand a response or are personal attacks on my character, family, or the readers of this blog.
Twice this week, Thiessen has demanded that both Ben and me apologize to him, for what I am not sure. I assume he’s demanding an apology because we dared to challenge his assertions about science. Thiessen sees himself as a defender of young earth creationism, a Bible literalist who will resolutely defend all sorts of nonsense because it appears in the Bible or is a personal belief of his. No amount of argumentation will change his mind. (And his defense of clerics who commit sex crimes is beyond disgusting.)
Thiessen claims to have a doctorate, including four science degrees — a claim he recently made for the first time. Geoff, a long-time reader of this blog, had this to say about Thiessen’s education claims and his understanding of science:
I don’t really care what educational achievements Tee claims, the proof of the pudding is in the eating or, in Tee’s case, the writing. There’s almost not a single sentence he writes that I can’t take issue with. Grammatically he’s dreadful, a clear indicator of his lack of proper education. Writing style not withstanding, his reasoning is impossible to understand by anyone with the slightest grasp of logic. He just doesn’t understand the scientific method. He seems to think it’s some isolated part of human existence, standing on its own, when in reality it’s the foundation on which everything we know about the world is based. Science essentially is observation and testing, reaching provisional conclusions, and incorporating them as needs be. Science and the scientific method is actually the only way we have of determining reality.
How is exploring the natural physical world going to provide the correct answers to our origins if science is not looking in the right direction or looking in the correct places? Providing the best explanation is not sufficient enough as the best explanation is not the truth.
The best explanation is the lazy man’s way to avoid the problems that arise with scientific research, when that research leads them away from natural solutions and into the supernatural. The scientists are too lazy and dishonest to say that the supernatural method is the only method possible.
Hence, God did it is the correct answer when science has no solutions. Here are some examples of science/evolution cannot answer why something exists.
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How can anyone trust science when it fails to provide the answers to these and a myriad of other mysteries? It is not lazy to say God did it because that is the answer to all the mysteries science cannot answer.
Science is incapable of digging for and finding the truth because it does not want the truth. it wants something that misleads, misinforms, and hides the truth. In other words, they want something they and their biases can live with, and that is not science, nor is it objective.
True science would recognize the weakness of the natural-driven science and recognize God as the creator, as there is no alternative answer. It would also recognize God’s creativity, power, and glory in all of these and other examples science cannot find a natural solution.
It is just idiotic to dismiss the phrase ‘God did it’ because science cannot accept the supernatural. That dismissal is arrogance and ignorance on display at the same time. It is also a demonstration that science is incapable of studying the past as well as deriving the correct answer.
Saying science is the only way to get to the answers is showing a great bias against reality and the truth. Science is no longer objective but a tool to promote one bias or preconceived conclusion over the truth.
Instead of providing the correct answer, science becomes a place for unbelievers to hide from both reality and the truth. No one can trust a research field that takes great pains and many steps to avoid coming to the right answer.
When one expounds the truth, God did it, they are not being lazy, but illuminating the correct answer for everyone so that they are not misled by the lies that come from the deceived and blind secular world.\Yes, God did it all and science is a tool used by evil to lead people away from God and giving him the proper credit and glory.
Only a fool would say or repeat the words in the title in the exact same sentence structure. God created everything supernaturally and without the aid of science. Science is in over its head and outside of its scope when it investigates origins.
The Bible has the correct answer every time.
This is a good summary of the way Thiessen thinks about science.
Thiessen confuses “science research” with “science.” They are not one and the same. Further, Thiessen might want to study what Dr. Sabine Hossenfelder’s critics think of her work.
This brings me to Thiessen’s demand that I apologize. After posting Hossenfelder’s video, Thiessen wrote:
With the above video, we expect a very honest, public, humble, and personal apology for the attacks and off-the-wall comments from both MM & BG.
We know what we are talking about; they do not.
I still haven’t stopped laughing about Thiessen’s demand. There’s nothing I’ve said that deserves an apology. Thiessen is butthurt over our coverage of his bogus “four science degrees” claim. Until Thiessen actually provides evidence for his degrees, there’s no reason for anyone to believe he has them. All we know for sure is that Thiessen attended an unaccredited Bible college in Canada as a young man. And we didn’t even know that until I outed him. Thiessen claims “God knows, and that’s all that matters.” This is a common ploy of Thiessen’s. Don’t want to answer a question? Deflect or make some sort of God claim. End of discussion.
MM [Meerkat Musings] continues to make false accusations against us [me], so we [I] are [am] ignoring his latest response. Yet, neither he nor BG [Bruce Gerencser] has [have] apologized for their false accusations and their lies about us [me]. They like to make things personal, which we [I] do not, thus they have no credibility or an honest character.
We [I] have proven our [my] point quite well and guess what. We [I] opened up YouTube a few minutes ago and at the top of the suggestion list was the following video:
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We [I] do not make fraudulent or misleading statements about anything. As you may have noticed, we [I] use legitimate websites and books to support our [my] points, so our [my] readers know they are getting accurate information.
That video is 20 minutes long, and it is well worth listening to as it provides not only information to defend one’s views on science but also provides eye-opening information on what is going on behind the scenes in science.
Maybe MM [Meerkat Musings] is upset as his rose colored view of science is destroyed, and it is not as glorious as he thought it was. Do not be fooled. Christians cannot trust scientists, and they do need to be fact-checked, etc., to get to the truth.
The Bible warns Christians about unbelievers and what they say. Those warnings include scientists and science, whether done by unbelievers or believers. We [I] are [am] not saying Christian scientists are all pure and do not commit fraud.
Those ‘Christian’ scientists who accept and promote evolution cannot be listened to either.
So once again, we [I] are [am] expecting a public, honest, humble, and sincere public apology from both BG [Bruce Gerencser] and MM [Meerkat Musings] because they are falsely accusing us [me] and have done nothing but lie about us [me] through their personal attacks.
Make sure to listen to the entire video to get all the right information on science.
Once again, Thiessen demands an apology from me.
Thiessen believes that Hossenfelder’s eighteen-minute video PROVES that Ben and I are lying about him and his science prowess. This claim has no merit. Besides, does Thiessen really believe that an eighteen-minute video by a controversial theoretical physicist justifies his criticisms of modern science? As I mentioned above, Thiessen confuses “science research” with “science” itself. He stupidly thinks that because a small minority of researchers lie or manipulate data that science itself can be disregarded anytime it disagrees with young-earth creationism and his wooden, literalist interpretations of the Bible.
Speaking only for myself, no apology will be forthcoming. I stand by every word I have written about Thiessen and his errant views of science and the Bible. I do kinda, a little bit, — I mean a teeny, tiny microscopic bit, regret saying a few years ago that Thiessen wants a picture of me naked to hang on his bedroom ceiling, but outside of that bit of risque humor, I stand by what I have written about him.
And Derrick? The offer of a picture still stands, but my nude photos are no longer available. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, recently wrote:
Unbelievers are very short-sighted when it comes to the topic of science. They think that science is the authority that provides all the answers, or will do so with enough research.
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But we and most Christians know better. Just a little research shows how bad science and scientists can be. Of course, unbelievers only give lip service to the destructive and harmful inventions that science, in general, has discovered and developed over the millennia.
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We cannot forget that ‘science’ brought the world Covid. The ironic aspect of this disease was that the inventor, science, could not create an antidote. The so-called vaccines were worse than the disease and never could stop the disease or reinfection.
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There is good reason for that. Scientists are not immune to sin, deceit, and are not omnipresent or omniscient. They are fallible human beings who have limited knowledge, and most of them are under the influence of evil.
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What unbelievers want believers to do is not what they will do. But that is a side point. The real issue is the so-called blind trust in science, even though much of scientific research is unethical or does not follow any rules of morality.
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Other examples is where ‘science’ developed heroin as cough medicine, radium for use in everyday items like toothpaste, forever chemicals which is a problem that has not been solved, thalidomide given to pregnant women to ease morning sickness, and even asbestos which took decades to clear up and even then it is not a job that has been completed (Ibid).
All of these examples and many more provide legitimate reasons to question and distrust science. No one knows the motivations behind the scientists’ work or why they included certain ingredients in medicines and everyday use items.
No one should be trusting scientists given their track. The original article [written by my friend Ben Berwick] we quoted provides another example of why believers should not trust scientists or even consider the words of unbelievers. They dismiss the experience, education, and other qualifications of believers simply because they hold to the religious views they disagree with.
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Rather, it is the reverse, as Christian believers have God helping them get to the truth. Unbelieving scientists do not want the truth; they want a natural answer, and that is their fatal flaw.
They are not looking for the right answer but one they can accept and live with. Unfortunately, too many scientists claiming to be Christian follow that ideology over what God has said in the Bible.
God has not said we cannot do science, but if we do participate in any form of that research field, Christians must follow God’s instructions over their unbelieving secular counterparts. We are not to lie, be unethical, but do science according to his will and for God’s glory.
That means we remove any element of sin in the process so that God can bring Christian scientists to the truth and the solutions. We do not follow the blind and deceived, for that takes us away from God and the truth, as well as solutions for the problems of this world.
No, we do not trust science as science is not an authority on anything, and that research field and its participants are not greater than God. God has the answers and the power to solve life’s problems. We do not put our trust in those who are mere humans who do not have the answer or the power to do the same thing.
— end of quote —
Thiessen says he has four science degrees, yet he refuses to name the the colleges he attended or how and where he “earned” his doctorate:
We find those quoted statements hypocritical because the author of those words does not believe one word we say, even though we have 4 scientific degrees behind our names.
Does anyone really believe Thiessen has four science (not scientific) degrees behind his name? When pressed on where he studied and got his degrees, Thiessen says “God knows and that’s all that matters.” This allows him to present himself as some sort of expert, when, in fact, he is anything but. Thiessen knows that if he ever posts his CV, it will likely reveal that he is a fraud or his “degrees” came from unaccredited institutions or diploma mills. Scientist, he is not.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The biggest difference is in the teaching of each faith. When was the last time you heard or saw gangs of Christians invading villages, killing their members, setting their buildings on fire, and then celebrating the deaths of those who do not believe?
Unbelievers get upset and call Christians and God many different names, accusing them of crimes they did not commit, all because they do not like the teaching found in the Bible. Yet, that teaching has not ordered anyone killed, nor villages burned, nor for celebrations of the death of the wicked.
Talk about a sanitized version of Christianity, from the teaching of the Bible to present day Christian beliefs and practices. Talk about living in denial over what the Bible actually says.
Sure, some expressions of Islam are violent. However, if we go back a thousand years or so, we find Christians acting just as violently as some Muslims do today. And when we turn to the Bible? We find account after account of God’s violence against those who dared to disagree with him or worship another deity. And when we get to the book of Revelation? Boy, oh boy, God drops all pretense and shows that he is, indeed, a violent, murderous, genocidal deity.
Did God ever command his chosen ones to commit violent acts? Of course he did.
Consider:
Then Amalek came and fought with Israel at Rephidim. Moses said to Joshua, “Choose some men for us and go out; fight with Amalek. Tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the staff of God in my hand.”So Joshua did as Moses told him and fought with Amalek, while Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. Whenever Moses held up his hand, Israel prevailed, and whenever he lowered his hand, Amalek prevailed. But Moses’s hands grew heavy, so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it. Aaron and Hur held up his hands, one on either side, so his hands were steady until the sun set. And Joshua defeated Amalek and his people with the sword. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this as a remembrance in a book and recite it in the hearing of Joshua: I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.” And Moses built an altar and called it, The Lord is my banner. He said, “A hand upon the banner of the Lord!The Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.” (Deuteronomy 17:8-14)
Hundreds of years later, GOD said:
Remember what Amalek did to you on your journey out of Egypt, how he attacked you on the way, when you were faint and weary, and struck down all who lagged behind you; he did not fear God. Therefore when the Lord your God has given you rest from all your enemies on every hand, in the land that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance to possess, you shall blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; do not forget. (Deuteronomy 25: 17-19)
And this brings us to 1 Samuel 15:1-8:
Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts: I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.Now go and attack Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”
So Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand soldiers of Judah. Saul came to the city of the Amalekites and lay in wait in the valley. Saul said to the Kenites, “Go! Leave! Withdraw from among the Amalekites, or I will destroy you with them, for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites withdrew from the Amalekites. Saul defeated the Amalekites, from Havilah as far as Shur, which is east of Egypt.He took King Agag of the Amalekites alive but utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. (1 Samuel 15:1-8)
Virtually every Bible scholar — except Evangelicals — says that God commanded Saul to commit genocide against the Amalekites for what their great, great, great, great, great grandparents did hundreds of years before.
The Bible contains numerous accounts of God’s violent acts, either directly or by his followers.
Richard Dawkins was right when he said:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
From Genesis through Revelation, we find a violent God who often maims and kills people out of jealousy or because they pissed him off. Shit, he killed a man just for keeping the Ark of the Covenant from toppling over. Talk about pettiness.
And since Jesus was God — the second member of the Trinity — another absurd, irrational belief — he, too, is responsible for the God ordained violence recorded in the Bible.
God of love, mercy, and kindness? Maybe, but honest readers of the Bible can’t ignore the fact that God was, at times, anything but. Oh, Evangelicals have all sorts of explanations for God’s immoral, sinful behavior, but the fact remains God commanded Saul to slaughter the Amalekites, including children, infants, and fetuses. A pro-life God he is not.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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We are not sure how long the new telescope has been operating. We [I, Derrick Thiessen] just found out about it last night, and unbelieving scientists are touting it as the miracle of science. [What Tee can’t be bothered to name is the Simonyi Survey Telescope at the Vera Rubin Observatory in Chile.]
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Since the universe is not expanding, dark energy most likely does not exist, and we do not think that dark matter exists either. It is just more made-up stuff by unbelieving scientists.
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Unbelieving scientists continue to chase the wrong things using the wrong tools and going down the wrong path. Then, while dismissing this telescope is easy, Christians need to be more on guard.
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The telescope may be an amazing piece of human construction and technology, but its main goal, whether stated or unstated, is to continue to deceive Christians and unbelievers.
It cannot find evidence for things that never existed. It can only capture what God did at creation. Anything else is read into the images by unbelieving scientists. Why do we find evidence for God everywhere? It is because God knew that humans would be exploring the heavens, the earth, and the oceans.
He made sure they were without excuse at the final judgment. God has let Himself, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit be known easily.
— Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, Don’t Be Fooled
The new telescope has been advertised that it could possibly find the origins of the universe.
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However, finding the origin of the universe is impossible.
The origins are gone, and the only evidence that there was an origin is the fact that the universe and everything in it exists today. The title of that video is misleading, but it also shows how arrogant and unintelligent scientists are.
The arrogance leads them to think they can build a telescope that can see into the past (which the video states it may do). The past is gone, and God is not going to be found repeating what he already did.
This leads to the unintelligent aspect of scientists. They think they can find something that no longer exists. Also, they think they can find a natural origin that never took place and never existed. That is just dumb.
We have the origin of the universe that everyone can read [the Bible], and no one has to spend billions of dollars to find it. All one has to do is buy or borrow a bible, read the first few verses of Genesis one, and they have the origins of the universe.
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No matter what man does and marvels at, God has done it bigger, better, and more glorious. When you watch these videos, keep in mind what we wrote in the previous article on the telescope. It cannot see into the past, it cannot see creation or the origin of the universe, and it is never better than what God did.
— Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, An Impossible Task
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, recently wrote several posts about me, Do Not Let Unbelievers Define You and Why Mention Us? What follows is my response to some of the things he said.
What is missing is the author’s [Bruce Gerencser] understanding of the Christian life, which he says otherwise. He fails to take into account that Christians are at all stages of sanctification and that Christians are still human and use human responses at different times.
Supposedly, Evangelicals are filled with the Holy Ghost. God literally lives inside of every believer, teaching them everything that pertains to life and godliness. Yet, when we look at their behavior, it looks like many Christians — including Thiessen — ignore the teachings of the Bible and the instruction of the Holy Spirit.
Thiessen justifies his “sin” by saying he is just human and God is presently sanctifying him. Thiessen has been a Christian for at least sixty years, yet his behavior suggests he is a neophyte who doesn’t practice what he preaches. If Thiessen is going to judge and condemn the behavior of unbelievers, he shouldn’t be surprised when judgment and condemnation are returned in kind.
Surely, Thiessen hasn’t forgotten that I was a Christian for decades; that I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I am quite familiar with what Thiessen calls the “Christian life.”
We wish we were perfect so that all of our responses would be viewed in a better light, but like all Christians, sometimes outside influences get the better of us all, and we say things in a way we should not.
Thiessen says he wishes he could be a better Christian, but, hey, no one is perfect, right? Fair enough, but when you repeatedly preach AT unbelievers, you shouldn’t be surprised when you reap what you sow.
Besides, doesn’t the Bible say, “Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world?” Did not Paul say, “I can do all things through Christ, which strengthens me?” Thiessen has everything he needs to be a humble, kind, thoughtful Christian, yet he, instead, presents himself as a weak, immature believer prone to the machinations of the flesh.
Instead of being condemnatory, unbelievers should apply a modicum of grace and understanding as Christians face a long, hard road, one that BG could not complete. He should not stand in judgment of others, but be humbled by the fact that millions of Christians are still walking the straight and narrow, a path he could not walk to the end.
I will show Thiessen as much grace and understanding as he shows towards me and the readers of this blog. Thiessen has long claimed that the Christian life is a long, hard road. He provides no evidence for this claim. Christians are human, just like the rest of us. The difference, however, is that Evangelicals think they are morally and ethically superior to the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world.
Thiessen continues to lie about why I deconverted. And he knows he is lying when he says I quit Christianity because I found it to be too hard. This is patently untrue. I deconverted because I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity.
But that is what unbelievers do. They use the scripture to condemn believers and ridicule them. Then write posts trying to humiliate them. Christians need to ignore such inflammatory words and condemnations.
I am not in the habit of condemning people. Thiessen evidently doesn’t understand the difference between critique and condemnation. Have I ever condemned Thiessen? Sure, but not often. I do my best to challenge and critique his assertions. When Thiessen starts attacking my character, I can, at times, respond in anger to him. An anger, by the way, that is often justified.
Thiessen says, “Christians need to ignore such inflammatory words and condemnations.” If Thiessen really believes this, why has he written two posts about me in recent days? I know Thiessen doesn’t like me labeling him as a “bad Christian,” but I call them like I see them. If Theissen had been a member of the churches I pastored, he would have been excommunicated for his boorish, un-Christian behavior. Much like Revival Fires, there’s nothing I can say to Thiessen that forces him to practice self-reflection.
Unbelievers do not understand what is entailed in the Christian life, nor do they allow for Christians to make mistakes. They want to see perfection from imperfect people. We do not need to make the Christian life any more difficult than it really is by letting unbelievers define our actions and words.
Does Thissen really believe that I don’t understand what God requires and demands from Christians? The issue isn’t Christians making mistakes. None of us is perfect. However, Evangelicals think they are morally superior to unbelievers. They demand non-Christians conform to and obey the teachings of the Bible — even though they don’t do so themselves.
I don’t define how Christians should live. I let the Bible do the defining. What better way to show the bankruptcy of Evangelical Christianity than pointing out that their works don’t match their words; that their behavior is contrary to the teachings of the Bible.
They do not know what God instructs Christians to say or do, and since they are not walking in the faith, they have no say about a Christian’s actions or words. Yes, some people do go too far, but rebuking them is up to their fellow Christians.
Is Thiessen kidding? Does he seriously believe that I don’t know what the Bible says about how Christians are to live their lives? The issue is that Thiessen doesn’t like it when I use the Bible to condemn Evangelical misbehavior, including his.
Only Jesus defines Christians and Christian behavior, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, we can overcome those faults that plague our lives. Sanctification is not an easy road, as examples by the many pastors, missionaries, and Christians who have left the faith.
No one should expect perfection from Christians when the world is still full of evil that is very active in seeking to destroy believers. That is another reason why we do not listen to unbelievers about our conduct. Their words can lead to our destruction as they misuse the truth to change Christians and how they interact with others.
Evil is not a thing. Evil is what people do, and Christians do a lot of it. Do I think Thiessen is “evil?” I don’t know him well enough to make such a determination, but I do know enough about his past to suggest that he has, at times, been a terrible Christian.
Thiessen wrongly judges unbelievers solely based on their lack of faith. However, all that matters is truth. All that matters is whether someone is speaking the truth, regardless of their personality and demeanor. One thing I have noticed from my interactions with Thiessen is this: he rarely, if ever, responds to my critiques. Instead, he attacks my character and, without evidence, says I’m wrong. Why am I wrong? I am an unbeliever, and unbelievers are always wrong in Thiessen’s alternate reality. Thiessen is a young-earth creationist. He believes the universe is 6,000 years old. He believes Adam and Eve were the first two humans, and God destroyed the earth with a flood, saving only Noah and his family. None of these claims are scientifically true, yet Thiessen thinks most scientists are wrong about, well, almost everything. Thiessen has very little science training, yet he passes himself off as an expert, complete with a fake PhD.
They are not there seeking what is best for us. They are seeking what is best for them and what they want to see. But we serve God and strive to please him even when we fail. That is the great thing about God. He uses grace and forgiveness, along with discipline, to help us get back on and stay on the right track.
We look to God for our correction when we do wrong and not unbelievers. Jesus defines us and helps us get to the truth of how we should live.
Blah, blah, blah. This is just a repeat of what he said previously.
The words in italics [Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist] tell us that he should know better than to write the content that he does. He is supposed to know all of this, yet excludes that knowledge when he rants against Christians. He doesn’t realize how much of a traitor he is in the eyes of many believers.
Let me stop laughing for a moment so I can respond to Thiessen.
Poor, ignorant, Bruce, right?
He should also know that what he sows, he shall reap. He can be very abusive, immoral, and other negatives in his writing about believers, so he should not expect to be treated with kid gloves by many Christians.
No, we don’t always reap what we sow. Just because the Bible says this doesn’t mean its true.
I have never expected people to treat me with “kid gloves.” However, the awful treatment I receive from people who are supposedly filled with the Holy Ghost is beyond the pale. Thiessen is trying to justify his bad behavior. In his mind, “I make him mad, so he has a right to treat me like shit.” Really, where does the Bible say this? Come on, Derrick, show me one verse that justifies your abhorrent behavior. I can quote a dozen or more verses that directly condemn your behavior. It’s not sin, Satan, or the flesh that keeps me from faith in Christ. It’s Christians like you who stand in the way of sinners coming to Jesus. Your behavior suggests that Christianity is not transformative; that there is no “new life in Christ.” If you think I am wrong, Derrick, prove it with your actions. At the end of the day, how we live is all that matters.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Kind, thoughtful Christians will often object when I reveal how I have been treated by Evangelical Christians since 2007. In their minds, they can’t fathom a Christian threatening to murder someone. Alas, deplorable conduct from Evangelicals is common; more common than polite, respectful behavior. Throw in the Evangelicals who take delight in threatening me with eternal punishment in Hell, and I’ve concluded that my writing either attracts the worst Christianity has to offer or this sort of behavior is normative.
Today, Daniel left the following comment:
I know you’re not lying, but you have seriously had “Christians” send you death threats? I’m sorry. That’s pathetic and vile. Jesus very clearly said if you hate someone in your heart it’s as if you committed murder. Wishing death on an atheist is totally opposite of what Jesus taught (I do believe His teachings myself). Can you expound on this or write an article about these threats? If you have not already.
I have had a few Evangelicals threaten to murder me. One man, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) from Detroit — 2 hours from my home — threatened to slit my throat. Others have prayed imprecatory prayers, asking God to physically and permanently silence me. And then there are the threats made against my family, including my thirty-five-year-old daughter with Down syndrome.
I have received thousands of emails, comments, and social media messages from Evangelical Christians. The majority of them were argumentative, belligerent, and hostile. Evidently, Colossians 3:12-17 NSRV is missing from their King James Bibles:
Therefore, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience.Bear with one another and, if anyone has a complaint against another, forgive each other; just as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; teach and admonish one another in all wisdom; and with gratitude in your hearts sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs to God.And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
These verses tell believers that they are to clothe themselves with certain behaviors. It seems to me a lot of Evangelicals are stark naked.
Here’s the thing: while their behavior is detestable, is it really much different from polite, smiling, Bible quoting Evangelicals who feel duty-bound to tell me and other non-believers that we are headed for Hell unless we get saved? While murdering me is bad, is not consigning me to endless torture and suffering in the Lake of Fire worse?
Even if I returned to Christianity, I would never attend an Evangelical congregation. The damage is done, and the behavior of too many of them is a poor reflection on Jesus. I have no interest in a religion that is known for what it is against, and is one of the most hated sects in America. The first people to object to this post will be Revival Fires and Dr. David Tee. Not surprising since they are known for abusing and attacking anyone and everyone who disagrees with them
Today, I received a long email from a Mennonite man near Somerset, Ohio. This man was a teen back in the days when I pastored Somerset Baptist Church. I befriended some of the Mennonite men who lived nearby. I found the lot of them to be good people. This man’s email reflected that goodness. It was polite and informative, a reminder of the common connections we once had. (Short Stories: Bruce and the Amish.) While a nice letter from an Evangelical man won’t convince me to return to Christianity, it does remind me that not every Christian is like Revival Fires and David Tee. I suspect the letter writer and his fellow Mennonites would condemn their behavior, as I have.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Supposedly, Evangelicals believe in salvation by grace, not by works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9). For those of us who spent years in Evangelical churches, we heard preachers say that we are saved by grace apart from the works of the law. Of course, these same preachers quote Old Testament verses, when needed, to justify their claims — i.e. tithing.
Recently, world-renowned theologian Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, wrote:
Circumcision was instituted by God, and that makes it a right and healthy act to do. When one circumcises their male child, they are acting in obedience to God’s instructions and not mutilating the body.
Thiessen claims Christians are commanded by God to circumcise their male children; that in doing so, they are being obedient to God.
If circumcision is commanded by God, we can conclude that it is a sin not to circumcise your male children, right?
Just another day in the wacky theology of Dr. David Tee. I have long believed that Theissen has a warped understanding of the Christian gospel. This is yet another example of this.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, shares with his readers how to reach sinners, unbelievers, and atheists for Jesus. What follows are quotes from his recent posts. These should give Christians and unbelievers alike a snapshot of how he interacts with and responds to unbelievers.
Maybe he’s not interested in evangelizing sinners as much as he is being right. This doesn’t surprise me. Christian Fundamentalists like to talk about winning souls for Christ, but it seems to me that what they really care about is being absolutely right.
Let me know you think in the comment section.
Dr. David Tee, In His Own Words
Unbelievers like taking common and legitimate aspects of writing and distorting them into something they are not.
BG at the end of his post gets upset that we have ‘impugned’ his character. Yet, he should not do it to God if he doesn’t want to have it done to him.
Another misunderstanding and misrepresentation of God and his actions.
Another wholesale misrepresentation and a personal attack thrown in.
Another misrepresentation and distortion. BG generalizes the commands to make his point, which undermines his credibility and ruins his honesty. He is not being honest even after being told the correct explanation about God’s commands.
The unbelieving moral standard is inferior and allows for sin and corruption to flourish.
The unbeliever is not in any position to judge God and His commands. Their idea of morality is worse than what they accuse God of being. Their definitions of the acts commanded are just as subjective and fluid as their moral code. The unbelievers’ moral code is not infallible nor omnipresent like God’s.
Not one of those accusations thrown against God is true.
At this point, we stop responding and addressing the falsehoods and misrepresentations written by BG. At the end he makes this claim that he has not murdered or raped so he must be a good man and we are impugning his character. Our response to that silly claim is HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
He does it to himself by purposefully lying, misrepresenting the facts, the Bible, God, etc., distorting the topics, and being dishonest in his points. We are not impugning his character but pointing out where he is wrong. Which we are allowed to do.
The only way to continue these types of discussions is if the unbeliever is honest, has an open mind, and will listen to your facts honestly and sincerely. Close-minded people like BG and MM only hear what they want to hear, then look for ways to misrepresent what was said.
Speaking of MM, he wrote a response to our mind your own business and his only point was– ‘I will write on any topic I want to’– such a stubborn, close-minded individual who does not get the fact that what he has to say means nothing because he is not qualified to speak on many topics.
They do not use all the facts, just the ones that support their deceptive point of view. They are not honest.
it is not the Christian who is ignorant, but the unbeliever who does not do very good research and only cherry picks the information they will use in their faulty attacks on God, the Bible and Christians.
When believers say things, it is often the case that unbelievers will ‘fact-check’ them. Then when the fact check turns up different information, they label Christians as liars.
This is another lie, as using corporal punishment is not beating a child or a student. But BG will not agree with that as he seeks to paint a false picture of us and what we believe. We could say that Bg does not care about innocent teachers or that teachers are being assaulted in the classrooms just by using his logic, but we won’t.
BG should know better than to lie about us, especially when he was not there nor knows anything about the topic he writes.
What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. This discovery only says that despite their claims to be rational and logical, scientists are great fairy tale writers.. They spin a good yarn that deceives millions of people, and that is wrong.
The scientists are not getting to the truth at all, but making everything up as they go.
But unbelievers like to think they get to dictate who will do what and do it according to their views. They forget there are others in the world who have the same rights and do not want them infringed upon.
This is another headline we came across, and we know the author [Bruce Gerencser] likes to word his headlines in a way that distorts what is going on.
The unbelievers’ solutions have been to remove God, prayer, specific punishments, and other similar aspects of school life and replaced them with ideas that do not work.
This is another ridiculous thing to say, as the unbeliever takes them out of context and misapplies them to whatever troubling thought they have on their minds. The unbeliever writing those words has no concept of what human flourishing means as he wants sin and corruption to abound at the expense of those doing what is right and moral.
But the unbelieving writer [Bruce Gerencser] of those quoted words does not care if he writes the truth or not. He just wants to justify his departure from God. He also wants to misdirect people’s attention away from what the unbelieving world is doing.
Anything that the writer accuses God of doing, his side of the world is doing with less than holy and pure motives, and on a far grander scale. He and other unbelievers are in no position to accuse God of anything.
Unbelievers do not make distinctions between true and false preachers/teachers. They lump everyone into one category, then continue to make false accusations against all Christians.
Only in the minds of unbelievers and atheists is this done. They always need something to fuel their hatred of Christ, even by exploiting the nonsense spoken by false teachers.
Unbelievers and atheists will go to any length to justify their decision to reject the offer of salvation, even by extrapolating false claims made by false teachers to others not guilty of doing such a thing.
If they [unbelievers] were honest, they would separate the true from the false teachers and be more open-minded to the former while closed to the latter. But rarely are unbelievers and atheists honest when it comes to Christ, Christians, and those who pose as Christians.
These comments can be labelled as ‘they will never learn’, ‘they will never listen’, ‘they will complain no matter what’, and by they we mean unbelievers and atheists. We like to distinguish between the two even though they are all categorized under the unbelievers label.
Ignoring is the best option because unbelievers and atheists rarely accept the truth as the answer.
Unbelievers continue to deny God the right to punish people and animals for their disobedience, even though they do the same thing as parents or supervisors, etc. They will punish people for violating their rules or the rules of a company, which affects the loved ones and animals of those punished.
The unbeliever and atheist fail to see the entire side to these issues they complain about. They only want to have their desired results, even though it leaves sin and crime sin place. In their complaints, there is no option to punish those who disobey or commit crimes. The sinner is free to act as they will without fear of physically paying for their crimes.
Also, the unbeliever and atheist will attack and punish those who are living by the rules, making them nothing but toothless hypocrites. They will do exactly what they complain about and act the same as God acts. Only the target is different.
The unbelievers go after those who disagree with/disobey their views and rules and condemn themselves by the very complaints they make against God. Their complaints hold no water and do not lead anyone to a better way or paradise.
Leave it to unbelievers to get the opposition to trans ideology and practice wrong, and then twist it into something it is not. This is what MM [Ben Berwick] has done with his recent post.
No religious right individual or organization are attacking trans people. They are trying to relieve them of the delusions that enslaves the latter. There is no right for fake women to invade real women spaces. There is no right to call themselves women when they are not.
The only small minded bigots we find are trans people. You can see their bigotry any day of the week as it is recorded endlessly in the different news cycles as well as other media outlets.
He [Ben Berwick] deludes himself, as do many others, into thinking he is right when all he is doing is helping erase the lines of right and wrong, and what is defined as sin. He leads people to sin and that is wrong.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Recently, Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, responded to my post Should Christians ALWAYS Obey God? I suspected one of my Fundamentalist critics would respond, and Thiessen was the first one to respond. What follows is my response. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original. Thiessen’s response is in bold font.
There are many factors that play into our not taking a break. Right now, we have had a rainstorm and are still waiting for a project to be sent our way. So we need something to do. The question in the title is not ours. It comes from BG’s website, and it reflects the attitude of MM and his question: would we kill him if God commanded us to?
Thiessen, as he is wont to do, drags my friend Ben Berwick into the debate. While Ben and I agree on this issue, I will leave it to him to defend himself. Is it fair to ask questions about whether an Evangelical Christian would kill someone if God commanded him to? Absolutely. It is, after all, in the Bible. God repeatedly commanded his chosen people, the Israelites, to commit violence and murder against individuals and people groups. If Thiessen has a problem with our observations and conclusions, his real problem is with God, not BG and MM (as he likes to call Ben and me).
Both are ridiculous questions because the answer to the title question is yes, and the answer to the annoying second question is that God does not give that command anymore.
Wait a minute, I thought the Bible says that Jesus (who is God) is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is a deity that doesn’t change his mind, though other passages of Scripture say he does. On what basis do we conclude that God doesn’t expect his followers to obey everything he commands them to do? Is Thiessen saying God changed his mind; that he figured out bloodshed, violence, and murder are not effective ways to get your point across — especially when innocent people get caught up in the carnage — including women, children, babies, and fetuses?
I asked in my post:
If God commands a Christian to do something, should he obey? How does a Christian determine that it is God commanding him to do something? What if God’s command runs contrary to the Christian’s personal moral code? Should the Christian obey, anyway?
The answer to the first question is, yes, he should, as the Bible teaches us that to obey is better than sacrifice. The second question is a bit more difficult to answer, as confirming God’s command takes several steps.
Thiessen’s position is that Christians should, without exception, obey God’s commands. Never mind the fact that he doesn’t practice this himself, He’s more of a “do as I say, not as I do follower of Jesus.
The first step is to confirm that the command is in line with God’s word
Thiessen believes the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. He believes every word of the Bible is straight from the mouth of God. Thus, in his mind, if God commands it, obey!
The second step would be to confirm that God is sending that command.The Bible tells us to test the spirits, and we should test that command to make sure God is giving it.
How could someone possibly know it is God commanding him to do something? How does a Christian determine whether it is God, Satan, or self telling him to do something? As far as I am aware, there’s no empirical test that can be used to confirm it is God giving a believer a command. As far as I know, all that Evangelicals have to go on are their feelings. How do Evangelicals know God is speaking to them? They allegedly feel it in their heart of hearts.
Third, the nature of the command must be analyzed to make sure the Christian is not being commanded to violate God’s other commands, laws, and instructions. Murder and rape etc., are certainly not commands coming from God.
And here is the crux of the issue. The Bible does indeed make moral claims. However, the Bible also records not only God, but his followers, ignoring and violating these moral claims. What’s up with that? Surely Thiessen is aware that God commanded the Israelites to murder and rape those he determined were his enemies. If Thiessen wants to debate me on this issue, I’m game.
Fourth, one must be careful not to confuse the commands given in the OT as commands to be followed today. For example, God commanded certain activities to be done as punishment for the other people’s sins. Those commands are very people and era specific and are not in force today.
Does Thiessen really believe that every act of violence God commanded Israel to do is moral? What did the innocents murdered and raped by the Israelites — as commanded by God — do that deserved such punishment?
Thiessen wants us to believe that God went to anger management classes, and now he behaves differently. However, the book of Revelation reveals a God who is still very much a vicious monster. Richard Dawkins was right when he said:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
As far as we know, God does not command anyone to kill others as punishment for their sins in the modern age. Those types of commands come from evil, and we know they come from evil because they violate God’s laws, instructions, and so on.
If these commands “come from evil,” logically God and the Israelites committed evil acts. I conclude, then, that the God portrayed in the Bible is evil.
Thiessen has no evidence for this claim. We humans cannot know God’s mind, the Bible says, yet Thiessen thinks he can discern and know the mind of God.
Then, we have NT instructions to guide us in how we obey God. Galatians 5 tells us:
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Thiessen might want to meditate on these verses and change his ways. My interactions with Thiessen suggest that he doesn’t think these verses apply to him.
We are also told in Romans to obey the laws of the land and murder, rape, pedophilia, etc., are against the law of the land and a Christian cannot disobey those laws. As you see by the quoted verse above, we are instructed to live according to the Spirit, which does not have any evil or evil doing in it.
Evil is evil, right? So if certain behaviors today are evil, those same actions were evil in the Old Testament too. Thiessen cannot have it both ways.
As for the question, if God commands something against a Christian’s personal moral code, would that person obey God? First, a Christian should not have a moral code that contradicts God’s or his instructions. etc.
But, every Christian does. No two Christians have the same moral code, and that incudes Evangelicals who claim that the Bible is their rulebook.
Second, it is better to obey than sacrifice, so the Christian must always obey God, as long as it is God giving the instructions. Disobedience is sin and wrong. Third, we do not go by the unbelieving world’s standards for commands or obedience . . .
Again, how can an Evangelical Christian infallibly know that it is God commanding them to do something? They can’t.
….
I wrote:
Does genocide, child sacrifice, and slavery promote the well-being of others and human flourishing? Of course not. Yet, when God commands such things, all of a sudden, Christians lose all sense of what’s best for themselves and others.
This is another ridiculous thing to say, as the unbeliever takes them out of context and misapplies them to whatever troubling thought they have on their minds. The unbeliever writing those words has no concept of what human flourishing means as he wants sin and corruption to abound at the expense of those doing what is right and moral.
Contrary to Thiessen’s assertion, I know exactly what human flourishing means and what we can do to make our world a better place to live. Again, I am more than happy to debate him on this issue.
I find it funny coming from a man with a sordid past that he says “sin and corruption to abound at the expense of those doing what is right and moral.”
I wrote:
The good news is that most Christians do not obey God. As cafeteria Christians, they pick and choose which commands to obey. That’s why they oppose genocide, child sacrifice, and slavery.
That is not good news but bad news. Christians are not free to pick and choose what they will obey. As Jesus said, ‘Why do you call me Lord yet do not do the things I say’. People need to look at what Jesus says honestly and implement his instructions correctly.
All Christians, including Thiessen, pick and choose the commands they want to obey. If someone obeyed every command, teaching, and precept in the Bible, you know what would happen? He would be arrested and thrown in prison.
At no time does Jesus teach to own slaves, commit genocide or do child sacrifice. Those activities are practiced by the unbelieving world as the sinful world aborts innocent children, keeps sex slaves, and kills people just because they do not like them.
Thiessen forgets the fact that Jesus is God. I have challenged him on this point before. I have concluded that he is heterodox on the nature of Jesus and the Trinity.
Everything that God commanded in the Old Testament, was also commanded by Jesus, the second person of the Trinity. Thus, Jesus commanded the Israelites to murder, rape, and commit genocide. To say otherwise is to deny the divinity and nature of Jesus.
We can point you to Hamas, Boko Haram, and other examples that show it is not the Christians that is doing this. Abortion is the biggest genocide taking place,e yet the unbelieving world practices it without guilt or shame.
The Christians are the ones trying to stop these things. But the unbelieving writer of those quoted words does not care if he writes the truth or not. He just wants to justify his departure from God. He also wants to misdirect people’s attention away from what the unbelieving world is doing.
Thiessen does what he always does: he attacks my motives and says I am a liar. I will leave it to readers to decide if I am a truth teller.
Anything that the writer accuses God of doing, his side of the world is doing with less than holy and pure motives, and on a far grander scale. He and other unbelievers are in no position to accuse God of anything.
It is best that he refrain from speaking, as his world is far worse than anything God has done.
Is this the best argument Thiessen can offer? God and his followers may have commited sinful, evil acts, but Bruce and his fellow atheists do worst things. Really? Whom have I murdered or raped? What immoral, evil acts have I committed. No, Thiessen objects to the fact that I speak my mind about Evangelical Christianity and people agree with me. His only response is to attack my character and lie — both of which, if the Bible is to be believed, means Thiessen is not a Christian.
What say ye readers? Please leave your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
