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An Independent Baptist Woman Asks, How Do You “Minister” to Atheists?

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ifb

I found the following dated discussion on a public forum called the Online [Independent] Baptist Community. I have excerpted the relevant comments from the thread. Enjoy! 🙂

Madeline stopped commenting on this site twelve years ago. One can only hope that she found the light of reason, skepticism, and common sense.

Madeline asks:

How do you minister to atheist?

Most atheists I minister to don’t care what I have to say. The Gospel bounces off of them like bullets to Superman. If I tell them that God loves them and sent his only Son to die for them, they respond by saying, ‘I don’t care, I don’t believe that!’. Or if I were to ask them if they believe that they will go to heaven when they die, they respond by saying, ‘I don’t believe in God or Heaven’ What am I suppose to do? And I don’t want to go force the Gospel on them, they get upset sometimes and this scares me!!!

Anon:

Try asking an atheist why we have seven days in the week and why we have Saturday and Sunday off.

Samer:

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

And so it is that the Bible doesn’t need to prove God–it’s evident by nature–and it simply begins “In the beginning God…”!

We know that people who reject this are hardheaded and willfully ignorant (Psalm 14:1, 2 Peter 3:5). Thus, they usually aren’t responsive to logic.

Atheism, to say there is no God, is silly. To say there is no God is akin to saying there is no gold in China. Such a statement requires absolute knowledge of everything, which none of us has but God.

If I told you to look at any building, and asked you to prove to me that there is a builder, you would probably say “That’s easy! The building is proof that there was a builder.” You don’t just lay down cement and lights and bricks and glass, and turn around and after a million years, a building will be there. And so creation is proof of a Creator.

It’s the same with a painting, like the Mona Lisa. Prove to me a painting has a painter, and you will say the painting itself is proof. Nobody in their right mind would think the Mona Lisa (or something much more complex) appeared by chance, yet the earth and heavens are filled with beauty and art. Art implies an Artist.

….

Countless statistics can be used–the anthropic principle is amazing–but in the end, they’re just willingly ignorant, as Peter says.

….

And remember! God has given us ALL a conscience inside of us. Every time we sin, we do it with knowledge that it is against God’s law. Use this fact!!

Itl:

I’ve got some more suggestions as well.

1) The last thing to do is to get into an intellectual debate. Try not to quote from stuff (like from secular historians) outside the Bible to help your witnessing, and STAY AWAY from philosophical stuff. Many of them are well-skilled in philosophy and such stuff, they will defeat you easily if you do not rely on God’s Word alone.

2) 1 point you can tell them: Man, by nature, is a religious being. Even the most remotest tribe will at least worship something, or will be interested in spiritual fulfillment. If it is not religion (very true for the atheist) that they seek, they will seek other things, like philosophy, arts, history and so on. I have never, in my life, heard of a person who has absolutely no interest in any spiritual things. Does that not tell us Man retains in his heart, a knowledge (albeit corrupted) that there a God exists? Tell them then, this God is the Biblical God, the Lord God Almighty.

3) What about life after death? Many atheists will tell you after death, they just go out of existence. But I doubt any of them will feel comfortable about it. Aha! The conscience. The fear, that judgment shall come for them after death. Another evidence of God’s existence. Focus on this part, the conscience (as the other brethren here have mentioned). If God does not exist, then morality does not need to exist as well, because human beings will have no one to be responsible to, but themselves. This is why many unsaved people who go on to a life of decadence and evil first reject God.

5) Btw, I find it contradictive they can get upset after hearing the gospel of Christ preached. If they do not believe (and reject) in God or the gospel, they wouldn’t feel offended in the first place (because they think it’s nonsense). Perhaps it’s their conscience being pricked? Hmmm…

And, if they threaten to get violent or blackmail you, back away. [it’s good if you can find a fellow brethren to help you] You preached the gospel to them: it is now their responsibility to accept or reject it. But at least you have sown seeds of God’s Word in them, which, hopefully… will grow and bear fruit aplenty.

May God’s blessings and protection be with you, as you preach His news to the lost!

LettheRedeemedSaySo:

When ministering to an athiest I would address the issue of What is Truth?

Madeline:

I’m actually using some of the pointers here on this thread on an atheist forum and see if I can get some ministerial experience. Well at least they can’t chase me!

Psalm 18:28

Are you sure you want to witness an atheist forum? It is harsh and they will shred you into pieces. I know several people had a change of view of the bible after being on an atheist forum (they were a young Christian). One of them became a theist evolutionist. You have to have a thick skin, and full knowledge of the bible and bible history, and strong faith and love for Jesus that nothing can cause you to lose your faith. I survived from a atheist forum, and it left some doubts in me for awhile. What didn’t kill me made me stronger. Many people who thought they knew Jesus decided to reject him after being in a atheist forums

Madeline:

Yes yes! I want to minister on an atheist forum. Anyone who rejects Jesus after being influenced by atheists would have proven to be a false convert. Jesus said that none of his sheep can be removed from him. And I may be young, but am not a young christian. God made you stronger after debating with atheists, and I’m sure he will do the same for me. Yay!!!!

Madeline:

Uhhhhhhh! I don’t think the atheists on the forum are going to change their mind. 😥 I tried but nothing seems to convince them. It’s so sad, the devil has blinded their minds and my heart grieves for them.

Madeline:

What am I doing wrong? I tried to minister to the atheists on the forum and gave it my all, how come it has no effect? What am I doing wrong? Someone please help me!!!

Samer:

You presented the Word, but you can’t do anything more–the result are of God. If it were up to us to get people saved, nobody would ever be saved–it’s all God!

Regarding atheists, though…

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:(2 Peter 3:5)

They are willingly ignorant. They don’t want to believe. I know this, having two atheist/agnostic siblings…Just hardheaded, because if God exists, then they’re in big trouble because they love thier sin too much.

Madeline:

I posted almost 70 replies just today on the forum and nothings changed. Should I quit? and what should I say to them if I decide to quit ministering?

Madeline:

No, not really! They hurt me emotionally there and I could not take it so I left. They don’t want to learn. Some of their posts are filled with sexually explicit remarks and explitives which are too offensive to mention. But as you said, I will leave it up to God as of now since there has been no progress. Thank you!

Madeline:

It is easier said than done grace. I bombarded them with scriptures, they can’t stand it when I quote scriptures, it makes them angry. I have made almost 80 posts in less than 2 days and nothing has progressed. If you think you can give them a change of heart, be my guest.

Madeline:

One thing I have learned thus far from debating with the ‘hard core’ atheists on the forum is that they will never believe the bible unless you can bring scientific evidence of some sort to the table.

Kevin Miller:

There’s a lot of good material on Biblical science out there. Kent Hovind is one of them. It’s much easier to prove Biblical science than evolutionary. You should look into it, I’m sure you can find some good stuff on the web.

Psalm 18:28:

They will refute anything. They are blind. You have to let them know what sins is and why they need to a savior. give them the 10 commandments and ask them if they broke it. If they say no, they have not broken it, then tell them how they broke every commandments. Then tell them that it is because they are not God and need to understand that the HOLY, SINLESS God is the only who can save them. They can not enter heaven as a sinner. They have to trust Jesus to wash their sins away so they could enter heaven. I am not better at explaining but you probably could.

Itl:

Madeline, Psalms18_28 is correct – they’ll (the “hardcore” atheist) refute anything. To them, they would believe only in the things they call as “science” (which may not necessarily be genuine science, but science “falsely so called”). As I have said earlier, the last thing to do when witnessing to them is to “debate”. I would recommend you to save all these Biblical Science for the agnostics, whom I believe are more receptive to the gospel.

Psalm 18:28

you might can ask them “where did the big bang come from?” or where did everything began? Can’t be aliens (looking at some of their prospective, some believe in aliens), because even they have to come from somewhere.

It was all created from God, who has no beginning or ending. They may asked who made God, but we know that he always existed. His proof of his existence is that we are here, and that’s the reality.

They probably knew who you are by googling your screenname, especially when you link their website to us.

Twinkle:

here you are…Hi mad!

Whoa…neato! A website for baptists only! Maddy, I wouldn’t spend too much time with atheists, there are those who are lost and are willing to receive the Gospel. Do what you can and shake the dust off your feet. So what did you do today…?

See you at Bethel Sunday?

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Quote of the Day: The Practical Effect of Trying to Rejoice Always, Pray Always, and Thank God for Everything

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1-Thess-5-16-18

The cynical part of me observes that passages like this [1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, rejoice always, pray always, in everything give thanks to God] keep believers tied up in knots because they literally can’t do what he’s insisting are God’s commands. Well, maybe, if you’re a monk on some Mediterranean island and have lots of time to work on the praying without ceasing, but that’s obviously not who Paul is thinking of. But if you live in a state of fear that you’re not obeying God well enough, how do you fix that? Why, you go to church, pray, fellowship, listen to your church founder’s letter read yet again, tie yourself further up in knots, and cycle yourself deeper and deeper into the religion. It’s manipulative. And of course, manipulative processes, no matter how well-intentioned, will get hijacked by people who have ulterior motives.

— Karen, the Rock Whisperer, comment on Should Christians Rejoice Always and Thank God for Everything? August 16, 2022

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Should Christians Rejoice Always and Thank God for Everything?

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1-Thess-5-16-18

The Apostle Paul says in I Thessalonians 5:16-18:

Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (KJV)

The Message puts it this way:

Be cheerful no matter what; pray all the time; thank God no matter what happens. This is the way God wants you who belong to Christ Jesus to live.

This text tells Christians three things:

  • They are to rejoice always no matter the circumstance
  • They are to pray without ceasing
  • They are to thank God no matter what happens
  • It is God’s will that you follow these commands.

Paul is not making suggestions here, as Evangelical preachers make clear in their preaching. Ask any Evangelical if they have ever heard sermons about rejoicing always, praying without ceasing, and always thanking God for everything, and they will tell you yes. Worse, they will likely tell you that these commands were an unattainable ideal; that they caused them much consternation and depression. What Christian has ever rejoiced always, prayed always, or thanked always? None. In the hands of Evangelical preachers, especially those who are IFB, these verses become millstones around the necks of people of faith. Often, they cause psychological harm.

praise the lord

I am sixty-five years old. I have experienced a lot of things that caused me to rejoice: my marriage to Polly, the birth of our six children, and the birth and growing lives of our thirteen grandchildren. I am quite stoic about life. I am not a clap-happy seal who gets excited about the trivialities. While I rejoiced when the Cincinnati Bengals made the Super Bowl last year, my feelings paled considerably when compared to watching my beautiful bride walk down the aisle or holding our first child in my arms, and many years later our first grandchild in my arms. Most of life just “is.”

I have experienced some things in life wherein I had no capacity to “rejoice.” When I thought Polly was going to die from ulcerative colitis, I did not rejoice. As I continue to struggle with gastroparesis and unrelenting debility and pain, I do not rejoice. When my parents suddenly died at relatively young ages and Polly’s sister was tragically killed in a motorcycle accident, I did not rejoice. As I mentally page through the trauma I have faced in life, I find nothing to rejoice over. I have experienced horrific things in my life, things no child should ever face. How could I possibly “rejoice?” I see no redemptive value in these things. I wish I had experienced none of them. Yet, Evangelicals are taught that they are to rejoice no matter what happens in their lives; that they are to be thankful to God no matter what happens. Rarely do they ask, why? Why should I rejoice? Why should I give thanks to God?

Verse 18 mentions “the will of God,” and therein is the answer to the why? question. You see, Evangelicals are taught that their peculiar God is sovereign; that he is the creator of all things; that he controls all things; that everything happens according to God’s purpose and plan. Thus, when you are lying in bed, writhing in pain, rejoice! When your baby is born with fatal birth defects, rejoice! When your wife runs off with another man and divorces you, rejoice! When you lose your job, your house is foreclosed upon, and your car is repossessed, rejoice! And greater still, THANK GOD for what you are experiencing in your life. Paul said in EVERYTHING give thanks. No matter what pain and suffering you face in life, your experiences are God’s will. So dear Christians, God says shut the fuck up and take it! That’s what Paul, writing under the influence and control of the Holy Spirit, is saying to you.

I am so glad to be free from this kind of thinking. Though it still plagues me from time to time, I no longer feel the need to praise and thank Jesus when my life is in the toilet or when my pain is so bad that I want to kill myself. Shit happens, life is hard, and then you die. Live long enough and you will face a good bit of pain, suffering, and heartache. For some people, the hits never seem to end. I am grateful that my illnesses and pain aren’t the sum of my life; that there are moments in my life when I can rejoice.

Yesterday, Polly and I, along with our oldest son and his girlfriend, and Bethany, our oldest daughter who has Down syndrome, traveled three hours south to Cincinnati to watch the Reds play the Chicago Cubs. We had a delightful time, even though I was in a lot of pain. Afterward, we ate at a Bone Fish Grill, which was an unmitigated disaster. More on that tomorrow. We finally arrived home around 11:00 pm. By then, my pain levels were off the charts, despite taking extra narcotic pain meds, and my legs were swollen from fluid retention. I finally fell asleep around 4:00 am, though I had to get up repeatedly during the night to urinate as my body fought to remove the fluid from my legs. I slept to 4:30 pm, waking upon hearing the loud, playful voices of my youngest grandsons.

Just another day in my life. If I am going to do anything that matters in life, I must be willing to pay what I call “the price of admission.” I could drug myself enough that I wouldn’t have any pain, but I wouldn’t be able to do anything — literally. So, because I plan on living until I am dead, I must daily determine how much pain I can live with. I take hydrocodone, NSAIDs, and powerful muscle relaxers, just enough so my pain is lessened so I can function. There’s never a day when I feel well or am without pain. That’s just how it is. Does this mean I never have any reason to rejoice? Of course not.

I rejoice over spending the day with my son, his girlfriend, my wife, and my daughter. I know that I have a finite amount of time I can do so. Someday, sooner than later, I will no longer be able to do these things. I rejoice over the Reds beating the Cubs, a highlight in a depressing season. I watched Joey Votto play, knowing that next year might be his final season. I watched numerous young rookies hit and field, wondering if I were seeing stars-in-the-making. I rejoice over the endless banter between us as we drove to and from Cincinnati. I rejoice over hearing my son laugh as we listened to comedians on our way home. Most of all, I rejoice over not having to rush to the bathroom, avoiding shitting my pants or vomiting. That is a good day in and of itself.

Yet, I know there will be days that I have nothing to rejoice over; just moments and days to be endured. This is life as it is. No religious fantasy or delusion. Imagine how much better it would be for Evangelicals if their pastors told them the truth: sometimes life sucks. Expecting people to rejoice over whatever happens in their lives, or expecting them to thank God no matter what, doesn’t help them, especially when they are also told that someday after they die, God will reward them for not blaming him for the shit that happened in their lives. Instead of every human being brought before God’s throne in Chick tract This Was Your Life fashion, perhaps it is God who should be called to account for his mistreatment and abuse of humanity.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Black Collar Crime: United Methodist Pastor Rick Haberland Pleads No Contest to Child Pornography Charges

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rick haberland

The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

Rick Haberland, pastor of Oneida United Methodist Church in Oneida, Wisconsin, pleaded no contest last Friday to charges of child pornography possession. Haberland previously pastored United Methodist Church in De Pere, Suring and Hickory United Methodist Churches in Suring, Phillips United Methodist Church in Phillips, and Tabor United Methodist Church in Eden

The Post Crescent reports:

Rick E. Haberland, former pastor of Oneida United Methodist Church, pleaded no contest to all five charges Friday morning during a plea hearing in Outagamie County Circuit Court. A no-contest plea accepts a guilty verdict without admitting or denying any guilt.

….

He was arrested in February following an investigation in response to a Cybertipline report from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

During the course of the investigation, police linked Haberland with a Skype account and email address involved in multiple exchanges of child pornography.

On Feb. 23, police executed search warrants at Oneida United Methodist Church and Haberland’s nearby residence, during which they seized his phone. A digital forensic examiner estimated Haberland’s phone had more than 150 videos depicting sexual abuse of children, in addition to written statements about sexual abuse of infant to 12-year-old boys, according to a criminal complaint. 

During the search at Haberland’s residence, investigators found 1.2 grams of meth in his bedroom closet, the criminal complaint said.

Haberland was initially charged with 13 counts of possession of child pornography, but nine were dismissed.

Haberland’s sentencing hearing is scheduled for 9:30 a.m. Oct. 14.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Evangelical Stalker Daniel Kluver Thinks I’m a Christian and Have Returned to Preaching

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danny kluver

In May 2021, an Evangelical man named Daniel Kluver began stalking me on the Internet. I have asked him to stop emailing me or sending me messages on social media, yet he continues to do so. Some of Kluver’s past literary works say things such as this:

Evangelical Man Says I am Infested with Evil Spirits:

You are the one making an ass out of your self! If all you can talk is shit then go talk It to the devil. A devil did speak through in a lie yesterday. You claimed to have demonic power yesterday [evidently Kluver doesn’t understand sarcasm] but the fact is the devil in you was just boasting about himself! You have no power and your garbage that you dump into the world will soon be over according to your testimony about your health [ah yes, another passive-aggressive threat]. Sometimes when people are infested with evil spirits they don’t even know what is wrong with their selves. If that’s the case with you then you still have a chance for the evil spirits to be flushed out and then you won’t have to keep living like the guy in mark chapter five.[the demon-possessed maniac of Gadera] I have learned how to get demons to manifest in people like you and that is evident.

Another Facebook Message From an Evangelical Zealot:

Peter ruckman was disliked by many brainwashed preacher boys but he was my favorite teacher because he was a straight shooter! Just because the Bible says in the latter times some will depart from the faith giving heed to doctrines of demons like the nuns that won’t marry doesn’t mean you have to. You should watch demons and Christians by ruckman.

You speak like you were a brainwashed preacher boy and it makes me wonder if you are really saved.

I have prayed for god to soften your heart and cut you to the marrow if that’s what it takes.with stents and patches all over our bodies we are in the third quarter of life.

I would probably bet that your wife has been a first peter chapter three wife at times.

Gods message to you is don’t let your pride get in the way of eternity! The only way you could ever preach gods word and denounce him later is only by devils that you have let surround yourself. Devils perched on both shoulders whispering lies into your mind to block the Spirit of God all mighty!

there is a literal hell and I have found that out before I was saved. God used it as a tool to get my attention and it worked.

I am going to ask God to pull back his protective hand off of your life if that’s what it takes to get your attention. In case you haven’t realized it yet I asked God to use me and instead of street witnessing like I used to he is using technology. I have to stay prayed up to fight the devil everyday and you saw how he was working on me with the first message I sent you.

If I don’t see you in heaven then I will see you on judgment day! Take care and god bless!

Yet Another Facebook Message From an Evangelical Zealot:

You morphs are just confirmation of the times we are in.

You have shown that you don’t love or fear god and you are useless now!

Your opinions are slanderous and you have become just like satan whom you serve. A stumbling block to some. Just a bunch of hot air to others.

Rough times ahead just right around the corner for those who hate god.

You’re wrong about who dies when you said that we will both die. Believers never die!

I am amazed at your ignorance and you probably were thrown out of the congregation that you say you were pastoring. I doubt that much of what you said is true!

Why don’t you get a job?

Kluver even contacted my wife, Polly, on Facebook:

If we are truly born again we cannot quit the church because we are the church. You can walk away from the lord and be miserable if you are truly born again just as a non believer that thinks they are born again and can’t understand why they are miserable.

I have been where Bruce is or was and Hebrews twelve verses seven and on confirms the truth about someone.

God has answered every one of my prayers over the last twenty five years and you and your family have been my first and foremost prayers!

Praying for others is my spiritual gift and I wasn’t sure what it was until I asked God to confirm it. We all have these gifts if we are born again and I believe one of yours is your heart for children.

take care and god bless you and your family!

Kluver also sent me private messages on Facebook. Eventually, I was able to successfully block and ban him. Somehow, earlier this month, Kluver was able bypass being blocked and banned and contacted me on Facebook. Not remembering my previous interactions with him, when Kluver messages me about the weather and IFB evangelist Dennis Corle, I politely and happily answered him. After two or three messages, a light went off in my addled senior brain, reminding me who this man really is. I quickly banned and blocked him. Not one to take a hint from anyone but the Holy Spirit, Kluver came to this site and used the contact form to send me an email:

Hey Bruce I heard that you are preaching again. That’s awesome because you know what the baptist say: once saved always saved! If that’s true then you are stuck being a Christian. I will tell Dennis corle hello for you and tell me where you are preaching so I can stop by and say hello.

What the fuck, right? Kluver is a sociopath with advanced degrees in gas lighting and passive-aggressive behavior. Kluver has in the past threatened me, so I find him saying “so I can stop by and say hello” troubling. Fortunately, Kluver lives in California, so I am not too concerned that he will try to show up on my doorstep and say “hello.”

I am not sure what to make of his claim “Bruce I heard that you are preaching again.” I assume this is just Kluver making shit up. No one, anywhere, including yours truly, is saying that “Bruce Gerencser is preaching the Christian gospel again.” I remain an unrepentant atheist, an enemy of God and Christianity. Now, if an Evangelical church would like to have me come and preach, I am more than happy to do so. However, I suspect they might not like my sermon. 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: The Government Has Zero Jurisdiction Over Churches

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bible thumper 4

The government has zero jurisdiction over the local church. In any way. It neither defines it nor regulates it. That is solely the jurisdiction of Christ Jesus.

— Denise, Surph’s Side, “God vs Government”: the pretend heroics of Grace Community Church, August 15, 2022

Denise defines herself this way:

My name is Denise. I grew up in the Charismatic movement, but God delivered me out of it, and I thank Him for that. My heart is to show other believers the error of various movements(WOF, NAR, Seeker Friendly, Reformed theology/New Calvinism).I want to help them find truth through Scripture. I love the Word of God and hold it dear to my heart. It is the standard by which I filter everything, including doctrine & politics, including my own thoughts and actions. Ps 138:2 There is One God, and within the One God there are three distinct, co-equal and co-eternal persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit(1Peter 1:2; Matt. 28:19; Matt. 3:16-17; John 14:16-17). Literal 6 day Creation is Truth.Scripture is infallible, inerrant, & God-breathed (2Tim. 3:16, Heb.4:12, Ps. 19 & 119). Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone for the glory of God alone apart from any works (baptism, prayers, walking an aisle, etc.) so that no one can boast (Eph. 2:8-10). God is totally Sovereign in ALL things (Ps 33). I do mean ALL. Man is responsible for his sin. God is responsible for saving the elect through HIS means.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: A Warning From God

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“I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things” (Isaiah 45:7). Certainly God is in total control of everything in this universe and He has allowed this coronavirus situation for His purposes.

I do believe it’s a warning to a nation that puts to death nearly 1 million children a year, has told God He’s not welcome in schools, rejects nativity scenes and crosses in public places and has allowed the religion of atheism to be imposed.

It’s a warning to a nation with a lot of churches but majority of which are lukewarm and compromise God’s Word in Genesis with man’s pagan religion of evolution and millions of years.

It’s a warning to a nation that is at war against the family and promotes sexual perversion through Drag Queens, LGBTQ movement, etc.

It’s a warning to a nation that is at war against children as they permeate their minds with wickedness through education and media.

It’s a warning to nation that views the elderly and infirmed as needing to be eliminated.

It’s a warning to a culture where politicians and others say we need to pray about this coronavirus situation but are not repentant about blatant sin that permeates the nation.

Be warned America and all Western nations–be warned world.

— Ken Ham, via Clyde Herrin: Here Are Some Things I Have Learned From Studying the Bible, April 6, 2020

I find it interesting that Ham didn’t use the KJV for his quote of Isaiah 45:7:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Hmm . . . God created evil. I can see why Ham would prefer the word calamity to evil. Regardless, Isaiah 45:7 clearly teaches that God is sovereign and in control of everything. That would include, by the way. the very things Ham is complaining about. You can’t have it both ways. Either God is in control, or we are. Based on the available evidence, it is humans who are in control. So to Ham’s warnings, I say, “who cares?” Ham sounds like a droning ceiling fan on a hot, lazy August day. Of course, if God really is in control, I only say and do what God wants me to. 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Atheists Stupidly and Rabidly Hate God

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atheists are idiots

Those “freethinkers’ marching in lockstep, getting their “facts” from atheopath talking points clearinghouses, seem determined to argue with Christians and creationists about practically everything.

….

Many professing atheists seek their identities in denying the existence of God, which is galactically stupid even on the surface. Study on it a spell. How many a-Easter-Bunny-ists write and sell books, form groups, make videos, have people pay money to join their “reason circle” to combat the Easter Bunny, use anti-Bunny profile icons, and more? It’s because there is no Easter Bunny, but they know God exists and suppress the truth! For some inexplicable reason, ridicule is an acceptable substitute for rational discourse and proves them right. Contradiction and ridicule are not refutation. You savvy that, pilgrim?

It is amazing that so many of Satan’s handmaidens reflexively contradict us, thrusting their atheopathy into the bright spotlight. For example, informed creationists [oxymoron] often have to correct evolutionists and professing atheists on their own belief systems and scientific truth. Also, you would think that people who claim to believe in reason, science, and logic would have at least some skill in using those things. Instead, we are subjected to bullying and malarkey. Most are all hat, no cattle.

….

In their rabid hatred of God, Christians, and especially biblical creationists, bigots like this [and most atheists] are fond of perverting Scripture. It’s who they are and what they do, even when the truth applies to them — and they end up proving God right yet again.

— Cowboy Bob Sorensen, The Creation Cowboy, Internet Atheists Proving God is Right about them — Again, August 8, 2022

Dr. David Tee Says I Don’t Have Permission to Criticize, Insult, or Make Fun of Christians

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dr david tee

According to Fake Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, I don’t have permission to criticize, mock, or make fun of Christians. Thiessen has his thong tightly wedged up his tight ass over my Songs of Sacrilege Series. Evidently, I need to have permission to criticize, mock, or make fun of Christianity. Permission from who, you ask? Thiessen doesn’t say. Thiessen should check out the Sounds of Fundamentalism and Sacrilegious Humor series’ too. Barrels of laughs abound.

Here’s what he had to say:

Just when you think BG [Bruce Gerencser] could not go any lower, he surprises everyone and does it. Nothing is gained by mocking others and Christians should not do it to anyone. They need to remember how they felt when Jesus was mocked when he was being crucified.

Why make fun of something people believe in?

….

BG does not like getting mocked, analyzed, shown to be in error, and so on. We know this from the myriad of articles he writes whining and crying that someone challenged his point of view.

Yet here he is throwing the first stone at those who believe in the Jesus he quit on and left. That is not right in any belief or non-belief system. As we have noted in many of our articles, it is tough to live the Christian life.

The people who stick to their faith should be praised not vilified or made targets. Just because a person like BG does not believe, that does not give him permission to demean and insult those who do. Nor does it grant him permission to insult or criticize their religious faith.

….

We do feel sad for them as they are deceived and in need of true help, something that mocking does not accomplish anything constructive and makes you less of a person. It isn’t Christ-like either as Jesus never mocked.

Why should I care about how Jesus felt when he deliberately got himself killed (the essence of substitutionary atonement)?

Thiessen also thinks I should act Christ-like. Really? Why? Why should I care one whit about the dead man named Jesus? Besides, it’s hilarious to have a hateful, bigoted narcissist giving me life advice. No thanks.

Thiessen seems to forget I’m an atheist. He also forgets that I think his religion is a cult that causes untold harm. I want to do all I can to bury Theissen’s bankrupt religion in the depths of the seas, never to be seen or heard from again. I plan on mocking and laughing at his religion until I die.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

UPDATED: Black Collar Crime: Kristie Evans Sentenced to Life for Murdering Her Husband David Evans, a Baptist Pastor and Swinger

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pastor david evans
David Evans, pastor of Harmony Freewill Baptist Church in Ada, Oklahoma

The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

In 2021, I reported that David Evans, pastor of Harmony Freewill Baptist Church in Ada, Oklahoma, was allegedly murdered by his wife, Kristie, and her lover (and threesome partner), Kahlil Square.

The Daily Beast reported:

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation on Friday said Kristie Dawnell Evans, 47, had been arrested and charged with first-degree murder after confessing her role in her husband’s murder. Her lover, Kahlil Deamie Square, 26, was also arrested on Thursday on the same charge.

Authorities say that Kristie Evans asked Square to kill her husband in a sinister plot the two hatched while the pastor was away in Mexico. According to an affidavit, obtained by The Daily Beast, the mother-of-three later told police her husband “was verbally abusive and controlling of her” and “called her names like ‘slut, fat, ugly, and whore.’”

“Kristie gave David’s gun and a box of bullets to Kahlil,” the affidavit says, based on interviews Evans had with investigators. “Kristie and Kahlil agreed upon an approximate time Kahlil would come to the Evans’ residence to kill David. Kristie left the backdoor unlocked so Kahlil could make entry to the resident.”

In a bizarre twist, the pastor’s wife told investigators that she and Square “had a sexual relationship that also included David at one point as well.”

“Kristie and David first met Kahlil months ago at a Super 8 Motel,” the affidavit states. The trio had sex at the Super 8 Motel on more than one occasion. One time, “Kristie secretly dropped her phone number on the floor for Kahlil. Kristine continued to communicate by phone daily with Kahlil without David’s knowledge,” the affidavit continues.

Evans admitted that Square stayed over for three nights while her husband was in Mexico, too. She told Square that her husband was verbally abusive, that he mistreated her, and that “it would be nice to have more freedom.” “Kahlil simply responded with, ‘damn,’” the affidavit says.

Then, at around 1 a.m. on March 22, Evans called 911 to report that “someone had shot her husband” inside their home in Ada, about an hour outside of Oklahoma City. When officers arrived, David Evans was “lying in bed, bleeding from the nose and mouth” with a gunshot wound to the head. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Evans was later found guilty of murder. Yesterday, Evans was sentenced to life in prison.

The Oklahoman reported:

A judge Wednesday sentenced admitted murderer Kristie Evans to life in prison for the fatal shooting of her pastor husband after hearing sordid testimony about their secret swinger lifestyle.

The punishment means she will not be eligible for parole until she is in her mid-80s. She is now 49.

She showed no emotion as Pontotoc County District Judge Steven Kessinger announced his decision. The judge called the killing nothing short of cold-blooded and said any remorse was newly found.

She pleaded guilty in April to first-degree murder, admitting she coaxed a lover into fatally shooting her sleeping husband early March 22, 2021, inside their home in Ada. She testified Tuesday she was immediately remorseful.

Her attorney, Joi Miskel, had asked the judge to order her to prison for only four years. The attorney said Kristie Evans had been a victim of domestic abuse throughout the 30-year marriage and a slave to her husband’s sexual wants.

“She is not a danger to society,” Miskel said.

A prosecutor had asked the judge to impose a life term without the possibility of parole. “She had options. She chose the worst one,” Assistant District Attorney Tara Portillo said.

The judge said he considered Kristie Evans’ testimony that her husband had abused her but could not discount that she had orchestrated his murder.

“As you testified,” he said, “actions have consequences.”

Her husband, David Evans, 50, was a beloved Baptist pastor. He had preached about attacks from the devil to the congregation at Harmony Church in Ada just hours before his death. The pastor, also known as Dave Evans, had just returned from a mission trip to Mexico.

He also had led a double life as a swinger, who collected porn and arranged for his wife to meet with men in Oklahoma City, Norman and Moore for threesomes, according to testimony at the two-day sentencing. The prosecutor conceded in closing remarks to the judge that the pastor was a sexual deviant and a “dark, dark individual.”

The judge noted as he imposed the sentence that Kristie Evans planned the crime, provided the murder weapon and ammunition, and allowed access to her home.

Kristie Evans testified she begged her lover, Kahlil Square, to help her get out of the marriage after enduring years of abuse. “I was desperate,” she said. “I wanted to be free from that. I knew of no other way.”

She said she left one of her husband’s guns outside the house and left the back door unlocked. She said she found Square hiding, dressed all in black, after hearing noises inside the house. She said she had to assure Square her husband was sound asleep because he was worried he was making too much noise.

….

She said she heard the shot and saw Square run out the back door. She said she found her husband, bleeding and gurgling from a shot to the forehead.

“I held his hand and told him I was sorry,” she said.

Square, 27, of Moore, also was charged with first-degree murder in the shooting. His next court date is Aug. 25. He also confessed, according to testimony at a preliminary hearing last year. The gun has never been found.

Kristie Evans insisted in her testimony that she still loves her husband, but the judge pointed out she had once described him as an obstacle to be removed.

The judge also said she showed no remorse when she wrote “pornographic” letters in jail to Square and another inmate. The judge said Kristie Evans first wrote Square only 19 days after her arrest to find out if he was OK, still her man and had everything he needed.

The letters were introduced into evidence Tuesday. In one letter to the other inmate, she wrote about her sexual prowess.

“I could wear a man out,” she wrote. “Any man would have done it for me after I got through with him.”

….

The prosecutor told the judge that Kristie Evans had her husband killed for money, a $250,000 life insurance policy. The prosecutor said the pastor and his wife had filed for bankruptcy months before, in October 2020.

The prosecutor also said Kristie Evans had manipulated her lover with sex and statements of love into putting a bullet into her husband’s brain.

“We also know that Kahlil Square wavered and that she talked to him on the phone from church and still persuaded him to carry out the murder,” Portillo said.

Kristie Evans and Square first met at the Super 8 in Moore for a threesome in January 2021, according to her testimony. She slipped him her phone number at a second threesome a week later and they began seeing each other without her husband.

Square visited her at her home over three days in March 2021 while the pastor was on his mission trip. He became a suspect because his car had been spotted at the house.

Kristie Evans claimed she didn’t leave her husband because she feared he would kill her parents, then her and then himself. She said she also needed to keep her job for the insurance to pay for medication for her kidney and thyroid issues.

She had a kidney transplant in 2013. She also has had her thyroid removed.

Her defense attorney, Miskel, said the judge will review his decision in a year and could modify it then.

“Her remorse is real and it was from the very beginning,” she told reporters. “Every time I’ve met with her, there is remorse.

“And you have to understand that she has suffered for years and years this horrific abuse. You don’t just shake that off in a matter of days, months, weeks or even years. And you have to think she still has had no kind of counseling, any kind of therapy, to work through these issues of decades of abuse.”

Asked about the sexually explicit jail letters, the defense attorneys said, “Kristie received positive feedback from her husband when she would perform sexually for him. That’s how she’d been conditioned over 30 years.”

She wrote the jail letters because of that conditioning to get a positive response, the attorney said. “She did cut it off.”

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.