Several years ago, my wife’s cousin, and an Evangelical pastor in Newark, Ohio, posted the following on Facebook:
Do not be fooled! Class warfare, rioting, racism, defunding police, expansive government programs…these are the building blocks to socialism. These are reasons so many flee to America!!
I have known Polly’s cousin for over forty-four years. He was the ring-bearer in our wedding in 1978. Andy is an affable guy, the only preacher in Polly’s family that I get along with. We have had numerous conversations over the years. Never an angry word, though we have disagreed many, many times.
After reading Andy’s anti-socialism comment, I decided to respond, hoping that I could educate him about socialism, specifically democratic socialism. I suspect that I am the only atheist socialist Andy knows. The conversation quickly deteriorated when a friend of Andy’s named Tim — an Evangelical know-it-all, if there ever was one — decided to hijack the discussion and attack my atheism. He quickly started talking about evolution and morality, and even went so far as to tell me that I was an agnostic, not an atheist.
Long-time readers likely know what I told this man: fuck off! In fact, I told him to fuck off twice. The discussion was about socialism, but he wanted to make it about me and my atheism. I refused to play, and here’s his final comment to me (paragraphs added for readability. Grammar and spelling as written).
Last comment, then tomorrow when i get up I will just block you; since you do not want to debate.
you are angry because evangelicals make truth claims. yet you are making truth claims also. there is a saying. everyone has a right to their opinion, but only those who are correct have a right for their opinion to be true.
socalism is the start of communism and nazism. socalism has always harmed the poor and middle class, and makes politicians rich royal leaders. socalism always worships government, as everyone has to worship something. you know it. thus why you attack me, for pointing out truth.
Last, there is truth. there is a creator. there is a God, and that God is the one true God of the Bible. I pray that you meet him one day, before you die; as that will be too late. if you truly seek truth there are hundreads of books taht not only show the truth of what I am saying, but gives all the evidence inside and outside of the Bible for what I am saying. the best, for someone that truthly seeks truth, is evidence that demands a verdict.
I pray one day you seek the truth and realize that it is not what you claim it to be.
Just another day in the alternate universe called Evangelicalism. That this man thinks Josh McDowell’s book, Evidence That Demands a Verdict, is the best book for someone like me shows that he doesn’t really know much about agnosticism and atheism, nor does he know anything about my background. McDowell’s arguments have been debunked numerous times. Had I thought this man had a rational, skeptical bone in his body, I might have engaged him, but since he doesn’t, I chose not to cast my candy bars before pigs.
The only thing that offended me was his claim that I am an agnostic, not an atheist. He refused to let me self-identify as an atheist. In his mind, agnostic and atheist are two different things. Had he been open to thoughtful, rational discussion, I would have educated him about why many professed atheists are agnostics and atheists. I have talked about this issue numerous times on this site. Some strong atheists disagree with me on the matter, but claiming to be an agnostic and an atheist is certainly within the orthodox pale of the most holy atheist religion. Yet, this knucklehead thinks atheism is a religion. Whatcha gonna do when faced with someone who thinks he knows everything, yet knows very little? At this point in my quickly fading life, “fuck you” seems to be an appropriate response.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Recently, I received an email from an Evangelical man in California named Craig. Instead of answering Craig personally, I thought I would turn my response into a blog post. Since I believe Craig was being sincere when he wrote me, I have removed all personal identifiers from his email.
Craig wrote:
Hi Bruce. Nice to meet you.
….
Full disclosure: I remain a follower of Jesus Christ.
Bruce, while I’m sure there are exceptions, the I.F.B. community is not known for either their scholarship or for reflecting the love of Jesus. Did you ever explore other Christian faith communities before leaving Christianity? Regarding scholarship, I saw on your website that you enjoy reading books by Bart Ehrman. I’m sending you two links to debates Ehrman had with James White and Michael Brown. The links are to Ehrman’s blog site. Ehrman posted the debates on his blog site. On the respective blogs Ehrman acknowledges that he had two very worthy challengers. The respective topics are the veracity of the scriptures and the problem of suffering. I appreciate Ehrman’s transparency. Listen to the debates and draw your own conclusions but please do watch them both.
I’m sure you’re familiar with the story of Charles Templeton. Did you ever read Lee Strobel’s account of meeting with him? It’s both profound and heart wrenching. It’s chronicled in the preface to Strobel’s book entitled “The Case For Faith”. Here’s the link to their encounter: Charles Templeton: Missing Jesus
I’d love to refer you to numerous books regarding the evidences for Christianity. One of my favorites is “More Than A Carpenter” by Josh McDowell. Bruce, go with the facts. I know you’ve been hurt. So have I. Regardless, go with the facts.
I’ll close with this fact: Jesus loves you Bruce.
I appreciate you taking the time to read this email. Take good care.
Based on reading these three posts, Craig concluded that I was uninformed about Christianity and that I was hurt in some way as a Christian and a pastor. In other words, I am an atheist due to a lack of knowledge about Christianity — Evangelicalism, in particular — and emotional harm caused by unnamed others.
First, I was in the Christian church for 50 years. I was an Evangelical pastor for 25 of those years. Yes, I pastored several Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches, but I also pastored a Reformed Baptist church, a Sovereign Grace Baptist church, a Southern Baptist church, a Christian Union church, and a nondenominational church.
Second, I spent thousands and thousands of hours preparing my sermons, investing countless hours reading/studying the Bible, reading theological tomes, and reading Christian biographies. At one time, I had over 1,000 theological books in my library. I remember a church teenager coming into my office one day, marveling at my library. He asked, “did you read ALL of these books?” I replied, “yes, I really have read all of these books.” I also had Bible study software on my computer that I used in my sermon preparation. By all accounts, I was a well-read pastor, especially from an Evangelical/Calvinistic perspective.
Yes, I read Lee Strobel’s and Josh McDowell’s books. Even in my solidly Evangelical days, I considered these books Christianity-lite, unpersuasive at best, pablum at worst. I have never understood how Evangelicals think Strobel and McDowell are pillars of Evangelical theology, when in fact their writings are little more than trashy Christian fiction.
My leaving the ministry and Christianity is not due to a lack of knowledge. I wish there were an Evangelical competency test I could take so it would put an end to believers thinking I am ignorant of their beliefs. I’m not. I know the Bible and cardinal doctrines of Evangelicalism inside and out. In the twelve years I have been blogging, I have yet to hear a Christian argument I have not heard before. In fact, since the Bible is a closed canon, it is unlikely that Evangelicals will have original thoughts — outside of their attempts to revise their interpretations to better “fit” in a culture that increasingly rejects them.
Let me move on to Michael Brown and James White. I follow both of them. I was actually casual friends with White years ago. That said, both men are Fundamentalists. They may be more educated than the average Bible-thumper, but their theology is the same as some hillbilly preacher who pastors a church on the backside of a hill in West Virginia. They may be more “sophisticated,” but once you peel away the patina covering their arguments, what you find is generic Christian Fundamentalism. I appreciate Dr. Bart Ehrman’s willingness to engage these men in debates. Personally, I am not a fan of debates. I prefer reading to debates that are most often decided by who has the best personality and rhetorical skills. I own all of Dr. Ehrman’s books, and they are, for my purposes, intellectually satisfying.
When it comes to the “veracity of the Bible” and the problem of suffering, I have my own decided opinions, based on extensive study and reflection. I have concluded that the Bible is not what Evangelicals claim it is; that it is an errant, fallible, contradictory collection of texts written by fallible, uneducated men; that its central claims are demonstratively false (i.e. virgins don’t have babies, dead people don’t come back to life). I have also concluded that Evangelical apologists have no satisfactory explanation for suffering, especially when non-human animal suffering is included.
Craig makes an attempt to appeal to my emotions when he says, “we’ve both been hurt.” First, I don’t know anything about Craig, so it is impossible for me to know if he has, in fact, been hurt, or what he even means by the word. Second, Craig doesn’t know me, so he can’t possibly know whether I have been “hurt.” Had Craig delved more into my writing, he would have found that I have thoroughly discredited the “hurt” accusation. Sure, psychological reasons played a part in my deconversion, but the primary reason I divorced Jesus is because I no longer believe the central claims of Christianity are true. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
Craig implores me to “go with the facts.” And that’s exactly what I have done. Of course, Craig can’t wrap his mind around this fact. In his thinking, anyone who reads Strobel and McDowell and watches a couple of debates will immediately repent of their sins and ask Jesus to save them. Sadly, Evangelicals have little capacity to see possibilities outside the narrow confines of their peculiar religion. Such thinking is not surprising given the fact that Evangelicals believe right beliefs are what save a man and deliver him from Hell. Never mind my good works. Never mind the fact that I am a good, decent, kind husband, father, grandfather, and neighbor. All that matters is that I believe the “right” things. The Evangelical gospel is, in fact, this: “Believe THIS and thou shalt live.”
As far as whether IFB churches and pastors “love” Jesus, I would argue that I have met “mean as venomous snakes” Christians in all sorts of sects and churches. Non-IFB Evangelicals can be every bit as nasty and arrogant as people in IFB churches — and I have the comments and emails to prove it.
I spent a number of years in the IFB church movement. I met more than a few kind, decent, thoughtful people who deeply loved their version of Jesus. To suggest that the IFB church movement is somehow worse than Evangelicalism at large is a denial of the evidence at hand. Evangelicals are the most hated sect in America. Evangelicals, along with their counterparts in Catholicism and Mormonism are the primary drivers of the vile culture war that permeates the United States. It is Evangelicals who gave us our pussy-grabber-in-chief Donald Trump. Sure, IFB Christians are a subset of Evangelicalism, but they are hardly a blip on the religious/political radar when compared to Southern Baptists and nondenominational Evangelicals.
Let me conclude this post by answering this question posed by Craig: “Did you ever explore other Christian faith communities before leaving Christianity?”
I pastored my last church in 2003. Between July of 2002 and November of 2008, my wife and I, along with our children, personally visited the churches that are listed below. These are the church names we could remember. There are others we have either forgotten or vaguely remember, so we didn’t put them on the list. Churches in bold we attended more than once. All told, from 2002-2008 we visited about 125 churches. If I added every church I have ever attended or preached for in my lifetime, the count would be over 200.
When Christians tell me THEIR church is different, I often tell them that I have been to THEIR church. Not literally of course, but one church or another that I have visited over the past 40+ years is just like theirs. Churches are not as unique as they would like to think they are. Polly and I concluded that the name over the door may be different, but after a while, they all look and sound the same. Congregation size, building, music, preaching style, government, and liturgy might be different, but this is nothing more than the man behind the counter at the ice cream shop asking you: regular cone, waffle cone, or bowl.
If the church has a website, I linked to it. A handful of these churches are no longer open.
I think I can safely say that I have covered all my bases when it comes to Christianity. I would ask Craig: have you done the same? Reason loves you, and has a wonderful plan for your life.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
