More Questions From an Uninformed Evangelical Reader

Recently, I received an email from an Evangelical man in California named Craig. Instead of answering Craig personally, I thought I would turn my response into a blog post. Since I believe Craig was being sincere when he wrote me, I have removed all personal identifiers from his email.

Craig wrote:

Hi Bruce. Nice to meet you.
….
Full disclosure: I remain a follower of Jesus Christ.
Bruce, while I’m sure there are exceptions, the I.F.B. community is not known for either their scholarship or for reflecting the love of Jesus. Did you ever explore other Christian faith communities before leaving Christianity? Regarding scholarship, I saw on your website that you enjoy reading books by Bart Ehrman. I’m sending you two links to debates Ehrman had with James White and Michael Brown. The links are to Ehrman’s blog site. Ehrman posted the debates on his blog site. On the respective blogs Ehrman acknowledges that he had two very worthy challengers. The respective topics are the veracity of the scriptures and the problem of suffering. I appreciate Ehrman’s transparency. Listen to the debates and draw your own conclusions but please do watch them both.
I’m sure you’re familiar with the story of Charles Templeton. Did you ever read Lee Strobel’s account of meeting with him? It’s both profound and heart wrenching. It’s chronicled in the preface to Strobel’s book entitled “The Case For Faith”. Here’s the link to their encounter: Charles Templeton: Missing Jesus
I’d love to refer you to numerous books regarding the evidences for Christianity. One of my favorites is “More Than A Carpenter” by Josh McDowell. Bruce, go with the facts. I know you’ve been hurt. So have I. Regardless, go with the facts.
I’ll close with this fact: Jesus loves you Bruce.
I appreciate you taking the time to read this email. Take good care.

Craig read all of three posts on this site:

Based on reading these three posts, Craig concluded that I was uninformed about Christianity and that I was hurt in some way as a Christian and a pastor. In other words, I am an atheist due to a lack of knowledge about Christianity — Evangelicalism, in particular — and emotional harm caused by unnamed others.

First, I was in the Christian church for 50 years. I was an Evangelical pastor for 25 of those years. Yes, I pastored several Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches, but I also pastored a Reformed Baptist church, a Sovereign Grace Baptist church, a Southern Baptist church, a Christian Union church, and a nondenominational church.

Second, I spent thousands and thousands of hours preparing my sermons, investing countless hours reading/studying the Bible, reading theological tomes, and reading Christian biographies. At one time, I had over 1,000 theological books in my library. I remember a church teenager coming into my office one day, marveling at my library. He asked, “did you read ALL of these books?” I replied, “yes, I really have read all of these books.” I also had Bible study software on my computer that I used in my sermon preparation. By all accounts, I was a well-read pastor, especially from an Evangelical/Calvinistic perspective.

Yes, I read Lee Strobel’s and Josh McDowell’s books. Even in my solidly Evangelical days, I considered these books Christianity-lite, unpersuasive at best, pablum at worst. I have never understood how Evangelicals think Strobel and McDowell are pillars of Evangelical theology, when in fact their writings are little more than trashy Christian fiction.

My leaving the ministry and Christianity is not due to a lack of knowledge. I wish there were an Evangelical competency test I could take so it would put an end to believers thinking I am ignorant of their beliefs. I’m not. I know the Bible and cardinal doctrines of Evangelicalism inside and out. In the twelve years I have been blogging, I have yet to hear a Christian argument I have not heard before. In fact, since the Bible is a closed canon, it is unlikely that Evangelicals will have original thoughts — outside of their attempts to revise their interpretations to better “fit” in a culture that increasingly rejects them.

Let me move on to Michael Brown and James White. I follow both of them. I was actually casual friends with White years ago. That said, both men are Fundamentalists. They may be more educated than the average Bible-thumper, but their theology is the same as some hillbilly preacher who pastors a church on the backside of a hill in West Virginia. They may be more “sophisticated,” but once you peel away the patina covering their arguments, what you find is generic Christian Fundamentalism. I appreciate Dr. Bart Ehrman’s willingness to engage these men in debates. Personally, I am not a fan of debates. I prefer reading to debates that are most often decided by who has the best personality and rhetorical skills. I own all of Dr. Ehrman’s books, and they are, for my purposes, intellectually satisfying.

When it comes to the “veracity of the Bible” and the problem of suffering, I have my own decided opinions, based on extensive study and reflection. I have concluded that the Bible is not what Evangelicals claim it is; that it is an errant, fallible, contradictory collection of texts written by fallible, uneducated men; that its central claims are demonstratively false (i.e. virgins don’t have babies, dead people don’t come back to life). I have also concluded that Evangelical apologists have no satisfactory explanation for suffering, especially when non-human animal suffering is included.

Craig makes an attempt to appeal to my emotions when he says, “we’ve both been hurt.” First, I don’t know anything about Craig, so it is impossible for me to know if he has, in fact, been hurt, or what he even means by the word. Second, Craig doesn’t know me, so he can’t possibly know whether I have been “hurt.” Had Craig delved more into my writing, he would have found that I have thoroughly discredited the “hurt” accusation. Sure, psychological reasons played a part in my deconversion, but the primary reason I divorced Jesus is because I no longer believe the central claims of Christianity are true. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)

Craig implores me to “go with the facts.” And that’s exactly what I have done. Of course, Craig can’t wrap his mind around this fact. In his thinking, anyone who reads Strobel and McDowell and watches a couple of debates will immediately repent of their sins and ask Jesus to save them. Sadly, Evangelicals have little capacity to see possibilities outside the narrow confines of their peculiar religion. Such thinking is not surprising given the fact that Evangelicals believe right beliefs are what save a man and deliver him from Hell. Never mind my good works. Never mind the fact that I am a good, decent, kind husband, father, grandfather, and neighbor. All that matters is that I believe the “right” things. The Evangelical gospel is, in fact, this: “Believe THIS and thou shalt live.”

As far as whether IFB churches and pastors “love” Jesus, I would argue that I have met “mean as venomous snakes” Christians in all sorts of sects and churches. Non-IFB Evangelicals can be every bit as nasty and arrogant as people in IFB churches — and I have the comments and emails to prove it.

I spent a number of years in the IFB church movement. I met more than a few kind, decent, thoughtful people who deeply loved their version of Jesus. To suggest that the IFB church movement is somehow worse than Evangelicalism at large is a denial of the evidence at hand. Evangelicals are the most hated sect in America. Evangelicals, along with their counterparts in Catholicism and Mormonism are the primary drivers of the vile culture war that permeates the United States. It is Evangelicals who gave us our pussy-grabber-in-chief Donald Trump. Sure, IFB Christians are a subset of Evangelicalism, but they are hardly a blip on the religious/political radar when compared to Southern Baptists and nondenominational Evangelicals.

Let me conclude this post by answering this question posed by Craig: “Did you ever explore other Christian faith communities before leaving Christianity?”

Here’s my answer from a post I wrote in 2015 titled, But Our Church is DIFFERENT!

I pastored my last church in 2003. Between July of 2002 and November of 2008, my wife and I, along with our children, personally visited the churches that are listed below. These are the church names we could remember. There are others we have either forgotten or vaguely remember, so we didn’t put them on the list. Churches in bold we attended more than once. All told, from 2002-2008 we visited about 125 churches. If I added every church I have ever attended or preached for in my lifetime, the count would be over 200.

When Christians tell me THEIR church is different, I often tell them that I have been to THEIR church. Not literally of course, but one church or another that I have visited over the past 40+ years is just like theirs. Churches are not as unique as they would like to think they are. Polly and I concluded that the name over the door may be different, but after a while, they all look and sound the same. Congregation size, building, music, preaching style, government, and liturgy might be different, but this is nothing more than the man behind the counter at the ice cream shop asking you: regular cone, waffle cone, or bowl.

If the church has a website, I linked to it. A handful of these churches are no longer open.

Churches We Visited 2002-2008	Location

Our Father’s House	West Unity, Ohio
First Brethren Church	Bryan, Ohio
First Baptist Church	Bryan, Ohio
Grace Community Church	Bryan, Ohio
Lick Creek Church of the Brethren	Bryan,Ohio
First Church of Christ	Bryan, Ohio
Eastland Baptist Church	Bryan, Ohio
Bryan Alliance Church	Bryan, Ohio
Union Chapel Church of God	Bryan, Ohio
Celebrate Life Christian Fellowship	Bryan, Ohio
Faith United Methodist Church	Bryan, Ohio
Trinity Episcopal Church	Bryan, Ohio
Archbold Evangelical Church	Archbold, Ohio
Sherwood Baptist Church	Sherwood, Ohio
Ney Church of God	Ney, Ohio
Ney United Methodist Church	Ney, Ohio
Sonrise Community Church	Ney, Ohio
Farmer United Methodist Church	Farmer, Ohio
Lost Creek Emmanuel Missionary Church	Farmer, Ohio
Hicksville Church of the Nazarene	Hicksville, Ohio
Community Christian Center	Hicksville, Ohio
Grace Bible Church	Butler, Indiana
St John’s Lutheran Church	Defiance, Ohio
Harvest Life Fellowship	Defiance, Ohio
Community Christian Center	Defiance, Ohio
Second Baptist Church	Defiance, Ohio
First Baptist Church	Defiance, Ohio
Grace Episcopal Church	Defiance, Ohio
First Assembly of God	Defiance, Ohio
Defiance Christian Church	Defiance, Ohio
First Presbyterian Church	Defiance, Ohio
St John’s United Church of Christ	Defiance, Ohio
Peace Lutheran Church	Defiance, Ohio
Pine Grove Mennonite Church	Stryker, Ohio
St James Lutheran Church	Burlington, Ohio
Zion Lutheran Church	Edgerton, Ohio
Northwest Christian Church	Edon, Ohio
Restoration Fellowship	Williams Center, Ohio
Pioneer Bible Fellowship	Pioneer, Ohio
Frontier Baptist Church	Frontier, Michigan
Salem Mennonite Church	Waldron, Michigan
Waldron Wesleyan Church	Waldron, Michigan
Lickley Corners Baptist Church	Waldron, Michigan
Prattville Community Church	Prattville, Michigan
Betzer Community Church	Pittsford, Michigan
Fayette Church of the Nazarene	Fayette, Ohio
Fayette Bible Church	Fayette, Ohio
Fayette Christian Church	Fayette, Ohio
Morenci Bible Fellowship	Morenci, Michigan
First Baptist Church	Morenci, Michigan
Demings Lake Reformed Baptist Church	Demings Lake, Michigan
Medina Federated Church	Medina, Michigan
Thornhill Baptist Church	Hudson, Michigan
First Baptist Church	Hudson, Michigan
Rollins Friends Church	Addison, Michigan
Canandaigua Community Church	Canandaigua. Michigan
Alvordton United Brethren	Alvordton, Ohio
Pettisville Missionary Church	Pettisville, Ohio
Vineyard Church	Toledo, Ohio
Providence Reformed Baptist Church	Toledo, Ohio
Lighthouse Memorial Church	Millersport, Ohio
Newark Baptist Temple	Heath, Ohio
Church of God	Heath, Ohio
30th Street Baptist Church	Heath, Ohio
St Francis De Sales Catholic Church	Newark, Ohio
Bible Baptist Church	Newark, Ohio
Cedar Hill Baptist Church	Newark, Ohio
Eastland Heights Baptist Church	Newark, Ohio
Northside Baptist Church	Newark, Ohio
Newark Brethren Church	Newark, Ohio
St John’s Lutheran Church	Newark, Ohio
Vineyard of Licking County	Newark, Ohio
Vineyard Grace Fellowship	Newark, Ohio
Grace Fellowship	Newark, Ohio
Faith Bible Church	Jersey, Ohio
Vineyard Christian Church	Pataskala, Ohio
Cornerstone Baptist Church	New Lexington, Ohio
St Nicolas Greek Orthodox Church	Fort Wayne, Indiana
Nondenominational Church	Angola, Indiana
Nondenominational Church	Fremont, Indiana
Victory Baptist Church	Clare, Michigan
First Assembly of God	Yuma, Arizona
Desert Grace Community Church	Yuma, Arizona
Calvary Lutheran Church	Yuma, Arizona
Bible Baptist Church	Yuma, Arizona
Calvary Chapel	Yuma, Arizona
Oasis	Yuma, Arizona
Faith Baptist Church	Yuma, Arizona
Valley Baptist Church	Yuma, Arizona
Calvary Assembly of God	Yuma, Arizona
Foothills Assembly of God	Yuma, Arizona
Morningside Baptist Church	Yuma, Arizona
Faith Horizons Baptist Church	Yuma, Arizona
Stone Ridge Baptist Church	Yuma, Arizona
Old Order Mennonite Church	Yuma, Arizona
Grace Bible Fellowship	Yuma, Arizona
Calvary Temple of Christ	Yuma, Arizona
Maranatha Baptist Church	Yuma, Arizona
Independent Lutheran Church	Yuma, Arizona
Community Christian Church	Yuma, Arizona
Church meeting in funeral chapel	Yuma, Arizona
Pentecostal Church	Winterhaven, California
North Holtville Friends Church	Holtville, California
Sierra Vista Baptist Church	Sierra Vista, Arizona
Hedgesville Baptist Church	Hedgesville, West Virginia
New Life Baptist Church	Weston, West Virginia

I think I can safely say that I have covered all my bases when it comes to Christianity. I would ask Craig: have you done the same? Reason loves you, and has a wonderful plan for your life.

Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

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Comments

24 responses to “More Questions From an Uninformed Evangelical Reader”

July 14, 2020

BJW

All of these evangelists have the same approach to you: read a couple of your blog posts, then implore you listen to So and So and you will be convinced. And then, if you decline, they end up becoming angry. I feel impressed more than ever that Christianity is a failed religion.

July 14, 2020

Karen the rock whisperer

I read stuff like what Craig wrote, I read the news, I read about the stupid behaviors of Fundies (Evangelicals/Conservative Catholics/Conservative Mormons) with regard to pademic, sex-abuse scandals, human rights protests, whatever…and I begin to think it’s hard to even get my mind around the SCOPE of the blame due to Roman emperor Constantine for officially endorsing this accursed religion. Without official recognition, it might well have died the swift death that it deserved.

July 14, 2020

Mike

The NAKEDPASTOR illustrates a pattern of witnessing or presenting our beliefs. I recall being trained, when invited into someone’s home during Church Visitation/Soulwining, to complement on something to the person I was speaking with before addressing the urgency to be saved or attend church.

https://www.nakedpastorstore.com/blogs/news/how-to-convert-heretics-online

July 14, 2020

DougK

Hmmm. Open mouth, insert foot…I trust that Craig read your reply, and will be wiser about these things in the future.

1. July 15, 2020
  
  Bruce Gerencser
  
  He read it. I sent him a link to the post. 🙂
  
July 14, 2020

ObstacleChick

Bruce, you obviously haven’t hit upon the correct iteration of Jesus. Surely there are more churches, you should be able to find the right version of Jesus soon! ****** terms and conditions apply

1. July 15, 2020
  
  Bruce Gerencser
  
  Yes, to quote U2, “I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For.” 🙂
  
July 14, 2020

Brian Vanderlip

When Bruce is implored to acknowledge ‘facts, I cannot help but notice that it is the same doublespeak over and over. These ‘facts’ are really feelings dressed up to present as immutable, dressed up as a king but the obvious lie cries out from the words: the king has no clothes!
Really, I would appreciate these letter writers putting away their pens and instead recording videos of themselves singing to Bruce:
One door and only one and yet its sides are two… I’m on the inside, on which side are you?
Maybe with a wee dance, a twerk, or even the twist!

July 14, 2020

Steve Ruis

Re “The Evangelical gospel is, in fact, this: ‘Believe THIS and thou shalt live.’”

I am so tired of this “promise.” I am told that if I believe what they believe, I will have eternal life! In the next breath they explain that each of us has an immortal soul, a consequence of which is every danged one of us will live forever. What they should be saying is “Believe THIS, or our god will be sure to burn your soul in everlasting fire forever and ever, Amen.” Now that would be honest.

Actually it was Christians who came up with the Lake of Fire concept, so Hell as we know it is to be laid in Jesus’s lap and no others. The Jews only had Sheol and there was no fire there. But we are also told that in Heaven, Yahweh has a mansion which has many rooms, so supposedly we each get one of those. A better concept of Hell would be to make the non-conformers into servants in this mansion. The servants sleep on rude cots in cramped servant’s quarters, get no days off, and do all of the cleaning, food service, waste removal, etc. all the time seeing all of the Good Christians reveling in this mansion. Now that would be hellish! And certainly more kind then burning and being tormented by demons. In the Christian concept of Hell, more and more demons are needed to be created to handle the load down there, don’t you know. So, why would a system that required more and more demons seems like a good idea to any sane god?

Do these people actually think about their claims?

1. July 14, 2020
  
  Karen the rock whisperer
  
  Thinking too hard about their claims will send them to eternal torture. But their god is GREAT!
  
July 14, 2020

Martijn Linssen

I have made que a few mistakes in life. A few big ones, even. Embarrassing, as well. Let’s ignore, for argument’s sake, a good majority of them all, and consider only those that were made in sobriety

After decades of contemplation and evaluation, and careful consideration, in all truthfulness, I can only make this one statement that I deem to be 100% true, all the time: it never is knowledge that is the reason for erring – it always is the lack of said knowledge, whether intentional or unintentional

Not knowing makes for simple truths, black and white without any shade of grey, perfect two sides of any coin, perfect opposites, the epitome of which is that very, very ugly and failed political American system: Dems versus Republicans.
Perfect duality – yes, indeed

I know tens, hundreds of scholars and academics who have read the New Testament back and forth as I have, and the greater parts of the Tanakh as well, likewise – next to other texts, more or less adjacent to Christianity. And only a handful of extremely orthodox fundamentalists among them “still believes” “as they should” although even they do show some cracks – it is utterly impossible not to

Craig is ignorant. Craig is not here to find or discuss religion, for Craig it is only about one thing: include you back into his group, or exclude you the f*ck from it for ever and ever, and burn you beyond recognition while doing so

And you can’t teach Craig, you can’t enlighten him. Because he doesn’t want to hear what you have to say, he wants to hear what he himself has to say – which are the echoes of what he has been impregnated with by his group, his peers.
Christianity, Churchianity, Evangelism – it is always only about them demanding you to become part of their group. It never is about reason, it must certainly never is about reasoning. Only two things: either you’re in, yon which you must be grateful to be allowed in, or you’re out.
Is there anyone who finds the Borg from Star Trek anything but horrifically scary? Well alright, you can pity them, if and when feeling hugely compassionate. But never doubt that they can only persist in their behaviour

Dogmatic Christians are immortal – they can’t die anymore, simply because they’re dead already. That is what is meant in the gospel of Thomas, by the way.
You can’t reason with fundamentalists, because their faith has nothing to do with ratio – only emotion

So if you want their attention, play at that level…

1. July 15, 2020
  
  Bruce Gerencser
  
  You said “And you can’t teach Craig, you can’t enlighten him. Because he doesn’t want to hear what you have to say, he wants to hear what he himself has to say – which are the echoes of what he has been impregnated with by his group, his peers.”
  
  So true, my friend.
  
July 14, 2020

dale m

Where does Craig get this strange idea that questioning and facts lead to religion? Craig is still religious because he doesn’t know how to approach the big questions without the crutch of religion. Evangelicalism has given entire generations crutches to stand up with before they learn to walk on their own. Hence, they have crippled those same generations forever. Why learn to walk when U have crutches to hobble through life with? Evangelicalism is where the real hurt is found. Secularism is the soothing jell that gently takes that hurt away. Anyways, the real cure is education. I loathe public school systems. But where R the private secular school systems? Unfortunately, they’re in still-birth mode.

July 14, 2020

Dave

I can recall prior to my deconversion feeling that my church was unique and had the real answers. Other churches could not be trusted and although they claimed to be Christian you really couldn’t be sure. I could never trust someone was really a Christian if they didn’t go to my church. How tribal and how arrogant! I think that’s a big reason mega churches thrive. You can look around you and see thousands of people who believe just like you do. Sure beats the dozens I would see all those years ago. Such nonsense

July 14, 2020

Brian Vanderlip

Oh, and Bruce, how the fangdang-it do you know all the churches you attended in the years 2002 to 2008? That just scares me and makes me look for valium! Is that the list-maker guy in you? My wife likes to make daily lists to keep track of a bunch of points as the day unravels but I am not aware of her making longer term lists. I tend to wander from one undone job to another, putter a bit and move along as a need arises. Yesterday it was the well-pump stopping that moved me to focus there… later I wandered back into the garden to weed carrots. It is wonderful to feel able to do this without being prodded by the great commission or cajoled by some religio-maniac to serve the master.

1. July 14, 2020
  
  Karen the rock whisperer
  
  Brian, you make me smile. My mom wanted everything written down, and when I hit 40 I started in her footsteps because menopause really messes with short-term memory. My dad, an accountant by trade, wrote down numbers…and only numbers. Retired from his trade, he operated the same as you’ve described for yourself, because most of his projects couldn’t ever be done. Priorities would make themselves known, as your well pump did. And yet, he managed to blow his friends’ and neighbors’ minds with his veggie garden and fruit orchard, kept track of which neighbors needed good fertilizer manure delivered from a farmer down the road who sold it for $5 a load and filled the bed of your pickup with his backhoe himself, and always seemed to find the best sales in the hardware stores without ever reading their sale flyers. He also had a local lumber yard intensely grateful because he would come in the middle of the hot summer and empty their scraps bin for them; that was kindling for winter fires. Three cheers for wandering.
  
  Oh, and while my mother was a devout conservative Catholic (who would have been appalled by my religious education at the hands of liberal nuns), my dad was technically Lutheran but never actually mentioned God, Jesus, or any bit of the Bible. His values followed the Sermon on the Mount, but always expressed in strictly secular terms.
  
2. July 15, 2020
  
  Bruce Gerencser
  
  We made that list several years ago. Had I made the list today, it would have taken me several days and a map to remember the churches we visited. Dying brain cells, unfortunately. 🙂
  
July 14, 2020

Emersonian

No UU church on the list, Bruce? 🙂 Ah well, we’re not really Christians per se, at least not by any definition Craig would put stock in. I’m curious about “church meeting in a funeral chapel” though–was it just the one meeting, or did they always meet in a funeral chapel for some reason?

It’s a shame that folks like Craig, who genuinely seem like kind sorts, can’t wrap their head around the fact that from the outside looking in their arguments are totally unpersuasive. Baffles me when evangelicals try to prove things to me by quoting scripture, to which my response is always “but why would I believe something just because it’s in the Bible?” I get that they do, but they don’t get that I don’t. Oh well.

1. July 15, 2020
  
  Bruce Gerencser
  
  NO UU churches. Not sure why either. I know, as it is today, there were no UU churches close to where we lived.
  
  1. July 15, 2020
    
    Emersonian
    
    Not surprising, we tend to be a pretty urban-based denomination. Probably there are UU’s in Columbus; maybe in Richmond IN, though I envision them having late night gang throwdowns with the Quakers there… 😀
    
July 15, 2020

MJ Lisbeth

I haven’t won the lottery yet. Why? I haven’t bought the right ticket. I guess I just have to keep on buying tickets!

July 15, 2020

clubschadenfreude

one more Christian looking for more external validation.

July 16, 2020

Julie S.

Bruce, your answers are always right on. I haven’t “come out” to my family yet, but I’ve dropped plenty of hints. I often talk to Fundies on Twitter & use my decent Bible knowledge against them & whatever the situation warrants. I’m just not quite to the point yet of making it all public knowledge. It’s a journey, I guess. They all know I’m an ex-fundy, but not that I’m to the point of denying God’s existence altogether. I’m slowly getting there.

Anyway, I wonder why, when people are blunt in expressing opposing views to these folks, that they always accuse us of having been hurt? And as a result, we are bitter, they say. Argh! I get so tired of hearing that!!

Thanks for always keeping it real, Bruce.

1. July 16, 2020
  
  Brian Vanderlip
  
  Hello Julie S. Happy for you being able to stand back from belief and question and to remove yourself from the extremism of fundagelical faith. Just wanted to express that I do sometimes feel bitter/hurt about what Christians have done to me and are now doing to others in our world.
  The very idea that having appropriate feelings is wrong is the business of evangelical belief. They make a point of crushing natural human feelings, call them sins and evidence of the fallen nature of humans. It’s a big crock of sheep-shit fed to the hungry. I have a right to feel as I feel. I simply hate what Christians do to children. It is wrong. It is abusive. Christians are taught to lie to themselves and others.