Several years ago, I received a Facebook notification about approving something Rick, a friend of mine, wanted to post to my wall. Rick is a long-time friend, former parishioner, and frequent reader of this blog. What’s interesting about his request is that he meant his message to be a private one sent to a friend of his by the name of Frank. The reason I got the notification is that he inadvertently tagged me. Here’s the message Rick sent to Frank — also a man I have known for many years.
Don’t be put off by Rick’s poor language skills. Several years ago, Rick had a major stroke. This affected his ability to write sentences. Best I can tell, the stroke has not affected his ability to study and read the Bible, nor has it affected his ability to read religious materials.
I met Rick in the late 1990s. At the time, I was pastoring Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio. Rick, a Calvinist, was looking for a Calvinistic church to attend and someone recommended that he check out Somerset Baptist. Rick joined the church, happy in knowing that he had found a man who was conversant in the doctrines of grace (the five points of Calvinism). For the next five years, I would drive two times a week — thirty miles round trip — to New Lexington to pick Rick up for church.
Frank and Rick, 1993, Somerset Baptist Church, Sunday Dinner
One Sunday night, while on our way to the church, Rick was waxing eloquently about double predestination and whether children who die in infancy and developmentally disabled people are automatically a part of the elect — those whom God, from before the foundation of the world, has chosen to save. I told Rick, with a slight irritation in my voice, that Calvinistic Baptist great Charles Spurgeon believed such people were numbered among the elect. Rick, not the sharpest tool in the shed when it came to social cues, continued to defend God having the absolute right to eternally torture anyone, including infants and developmentally disabled people, in the Lake of Fire. I could feel anger welling. I thought to myself, has Rick forgotten that I have a developmentally disabled two-year-old daughter with Down syndrome? Doesn’t he care how hurtful his words are? I slammed on the brakes and told Rick to get out of the car. He could walk to church, I told him. I quickly cooled down, telling him, I didn’t want to hear another word from him about whether infants and developmentally disabled people are elect. Rick complied, moving on to other hot button Calvinistic issues.
Let me share another Rick memory, one that I think readers will find funny. Rick worked third shift at a residential home for the developmentally disabled — Mount Aloysius. Unsurprisingly, Rick was quite tired by the time he arrived for Sunday morning church. Try as he might to stay awake, Rick would often fall asleep. Rick snored, so the entire congregation knew when Rick was sleeping. Sunday after Sunday I watched Rick fight sleep, his head bobbing back and forth during my hour-long sermons. One Sunday, Rick bobbed his head back and then forward just as he did Sunday after Sunday. This time, however, Rick’s head traveled forward farther than he intended, smacking the pew in front of him. I stopped preaching and went to Rick to make sure he was okay. Fortunately, the only thing harmed was his pride. After the service, I told Rick that perhaps he should skip the Sunday morning service when he worked the night before. That way he could be rested and mentally fresh for the Sunday evening service. By the way, this was the only time in twenty-five years of pastoring churches that I told someone, please don’t come to church.
I haven’t been Rick’s pastor for over twenty-seven years, and the last time I saw him was in 1996 when he and Frank drove to West Unity, Ohio to attend services at a new church I had planted. Since then, I have traded a few emails with Rick, but nothing of substance.
Rick’s message is a reminder to me that people still talk about my deconversion. People who knew me well — as Rick and Frank once did — are still trying to square the pastor they once knew with the atheist named Bruce Gerencser. In Rick’s case, he wonders if am just backslidden, or is it possible that I never was saved. I am sure Rick prefers the backslidden explanation. I am sure trying to wrap his mind around the possibility of me never being saved is too much for him to emotionally and intellectually handle. If I was never saved, this means that Rick was taught for five years by an unsaved pastor, a man he heard expositionally preach hundreds of times; preaching that he believed was empowered by the Holy Spirit. I am sure he remembers the countless hours we spent after church talking theology. I am sure he remembers my love, kindness, and compassion, and my willingness to, week after week, drive to New Lexington and pick him up so he could attend church. I am sure he asks himself, how is it possible that the Bruce I knew was never a true Christian.
The easy out for Rick is for him to embrace Arminianism with its belief that saved people can and do fall from grace. Doing so would mean that I once was saved, but now I am not. Of course, Rick’s Calvinism keeps him from believing I have lost my salvation, so he is forced to psychologically torture himself with thoughts about whether I am backslidden or was never a Christian to start with.
I wish Rick nothing but the best. I hope he will, in time, come to terms with my current godless state. I chose to be exactly where I am today. Or did I? Perhaps all of this has been decreed by God, and the person ultimately responsible for my lost condition is the divine puppet master, John Calvin’s God.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
On occasion, an Evangelical commenter will suggest that deep down in my heart of hearts I KNOW that I am still a Christian; that my claiming to be an agnostic/atheist is a ruse or some sort of misdirection meant to lead people away from finding out the truth about what and who I really am. Such a conclusion is derived from reading my writing through blood-of-Jesus-colored glasses, seeing faith where there is none. Several years ago, one commenter even went so far as to suggest that my capitalization of words such as Bible, Heaven, and Hell, was proof that I am, despite my protestations, still a Christian. Taking this approach, of course, allows once-saved-always-saved Baptists to square my past with the present. Once saved by the miracle-working power of Jesus, no matter what I say or do, I cannot be separated from the love of God. No matter how hard I try to divorce myself from God or run from his presence, I remain eternally married to Jesus. Jesus is the epitome of the abusive husband in a no-divorce state. The only way to be free of Jesus is to kill him. I wonder . . . is it possible to kill Jesus twice? 🙂
Most thinking people will recognize that the aforementioned argument is absurd and makes a mockery of what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ. Salvation is reduced to intellectual assent to a set of propositional facts about the nature of God, the human condition, the need of redemption, the threat of judgment, and the promise of eternal life. If someone, as I did when a fifteen-year-old boy, sincerely believes these facts, then he or she is instantly and eternally saved. After being instantaneously saved, it matters not how the saved sinner lives. He SHOULD desire to live right. Indwelt by the Holy Spirit, those born from above SHOULD desire to attend church, pray, read the Bible, and follow the commands and precepts of God. But if they don’t, they are still saved, no matter what! In other words, a Christian could renounce Jesus, reject the teachings of the Bible, embrace atheism, and live a life of debauchery; it matters not, he is still saved. Supposedly, such a life would bring God’s judgment and chastisement, but if it doesn’t, the Christian is still saved. Several Christians have suggested my health problems are God’s chastisement of me for my rebellion against him. The problem with this line of argument is that my health problems started years and decades before I divorced myself my Jesus. What was God up to then?
If I am still, way down in the depths of my imaginary soul, a Christian, why would I claim to be an agnostic/atheist now? Point to one good thing that comes from me professing to be an atheist. I live in rural Northwest Ohio. The Evangelical Jesus is on public display everywhere I look. In the Williams/Defiance/Fulton/Henry County area, three hundred churches dot the landscape. Almost all of them skew to the right theologically and politically. I am not only an atheist, I am also a pacifist and a Democratic Socialist. I am everything most people in the quad-county area are not. Being an outspoken atheist has resulted in social ostracization. While I have in recent years tried to pick my battles more carefully, I am still labeled by Christian zealots as an immoral tool of Satan. I continue to despise the preferential treatment given to Christianity and I deplore attempts to promote theocratic thinking and scientific ignorance. I have concluded that locals can live with my godlessness as long as I don’t shove it in their faces. Of course, there is this little problem called The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser. Anyone who bothers to do a search on my name — I am the only Bruce Gerencser in the world — will quickly find out my views about God, Christianity, the Bible, Evangelicalism, Trump, right-wing politics, asphalt auto racing, and the designated hitter. I am not hiding my lack of belief as much as I am being more careful in choosing when, where, and how I want to take a stand against God and his anointed ones.
It seems to me that it would an easier path for me if I said I was a Christian and lived as most local Christians do — as practical atheists, espousing a cultural Christianity that is trotted out for holidays, weddings, funerals, and periodic outbursts of self-righteousness over perceived secular attacks on the baby Jesus. I would, in effect, live as if God doesn’t exist. Such living is hypocrisy at its best — saying one is a Christian, yet living as if God is a myth. Surely, if people say they are Christians, shouldn’t they make a good faith effort to live according to teachings of the Bible? Shouldn’t their lives reflect their beliefs?
I can’t think of one rational reason for me to still be a Christian, yet claim to be an atheist. Being a Christian, even in name only, is a path of ease, one that requires nothing from me. Atheism, on the other hand, brings social and cultural criticism, ostracism, and attack. I do my best to be an example of a good atheist, someone who lives according to the humanistic ideal. I try to let my good works show the kind of man, husband, father, and grandfather I am. I want local Christians to know that people can be unbelievers and still live moral and ethical lives. Most of all, I want my life to be a glaring contradiction when how I live is compared to presuppositions and stereotypes about atheists. A Christianity worth having is evidenced not by beliefs, but by how a follower of Jesus lives. So it is with atheists. How we live our day-to-day lives is vitally important. People are watching us, trying to figure out what kind of people we really are. I want to be the best atheist in town, one who loves his fellow man and, when needed, lends his care and support to those in need. Surely, atheists and Christians alike should desire what is best not only for their progeny, but also for their friends and neighbors.
If you can come up with a reason for someone to still be a Christian, yet claim to be an atheist, please share it in the comment section below.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Trigger Warning for Evangelicals. This post contains sarcasm, sacrilegious humor, and 🙂 emojis. Do not proceed if these things will irritate your spiritual hemorrhoids. 🙂 You have been warned!
Just looking some things up on my phone this morning and came across this page, after you wrote an article on Kenny Bishop.
The article Lori is talking about is Southern Gospel Singer Kenny Bishop is Now a Gay United Church of Christ Pastor. Bishop, a former member (and lead singer) of a famous family Southern Gospel group called The Bishops, left Evangelicalism, married a man, and is the pastor of a United Church of Christ congregation in Kentucky. Kenny’s departure from Evangelicalism — the one truth faith — and his embracing of the “gay lifestyle” outrages many Christians. How can these things be? I get similar responses from former ministerial colleagues and church members. How is it possible that Pastor Gerencser is now an atheist and a liberal/progressive/socialist/pacifist? Such dramatic departures from the Evangelical norm do not compute for most Evangelicals.
I suspect that this is a bridge too far for most Evangelicals. 🙂
Not wondering exactly why I feel compelled to reach out to you, but I am a Christian.
Lori contacted me because she “felt” she needed to; that it was her duty to put in a word for Jesus. Lori ignored that I ask Evangelicals to NOT send me emails such as hers, and wrote me anyway.
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/ psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
Why is it so hard for Evangelicals to respect my wishes? After fifteen years and thousands of unwanted emails and comments from Evangelicals, I have concluded that what I want doesn’t matter to most followers of Jesus.
I’m not here to condemn you, but something you said caught my attention.
Lori says she’s not condemning me in her email, but that is actually what she does. She refuses to accept my story at face value, choosing to deconstruct my life based on her personal opinions and peculiar interpretations of the Protestant Christian Bible. I hope she will think about why this might be offensive to me, or how she might feel if I did the same to her.
You mentioned you don’t follow southern gospel music but you stated something inside you has always stirred you in your heart. My friend that’s Jesus still reaching out to you.
Lori wrongly assumes that the emotional feelings I have when listening to certain Southern Gospel songs are a “sign” that Jesus is trying to reach out to me. Come on Jesus, text me or shoot me an email! 🙂 Lost on Lori seems to be the psychological and sociological reasons such music might appeal to me. After all, I regularly listened to Southern Gospel, quartet-style music for almost fifty years. This music made a deep, lasting imprint on my life. The same can be said of songs by the Carpenters. Is it safe for me, then, to conclude that Karen Carpenter is calling out to me from beyond the grave? Silly, right?
I’m not sure what exactly turned you away from Jesus whether life or maybe some hypocrites along the way. All I know is until you take your last breath, Jesus is waiting.
And herein lies the problem, Lori made no attempt to find out who I am. She didn’t read any of my autobiographical material. (Please see Why? and the About page) Instead, she quickly read two posts and then emailed me. Had Lori bothered to do her homework, all of her questions about me would have been answered. And, I am quite accessible. If she genuinely had questions about my story, I would have gladly answered them, as I have done countless times before for other Evangelicals.
The Bible says in Proverbs 18: 13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Ouch. 🙂 I hope Lori will think about her email to me and ponder what her God says in the aforementioned Bible verse. I didn’t say it, “God did.” 🙂
I don’t believe your an atheist because of certain comments in your writings, but maybe just lost your way.
While Lori seems polite, I do wonder if she thinks it is genteel, sociable, well-mannered, thoughtful, considerate, and respectful (Carolyn, my editor, told me to choose one word for this sentence. I decided I liked all of her suggestions.) to email complete strangers and call them liars. And that’s exactly what Lori is doing when she says I am not an atheist. Lori says she is a Christian. I accept her self-identification at face value. Why can she not do the same for me? Why is it so hard for Evangelicals to accept that I once was a Christian and now I am not; that I once was a born-again follower of Jesus and now I am an atheist; that I once had foreskin on my johnson and now I don’t? 🙂
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I pastored churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan, spending thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible, and preaching 4,000+ sermons. I know the Bible inside and out. I haven’t lost my way, as if I am a puppy who got out of his pen, ran out the door, and wandered away. With full knowledge and eyes wide open, I reject out of hand the central claims of Christianity. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) God is a myth and Jesus is dead — end of discussion.
I realize that the biggest surprise at judgment day is the so-called Christian who judges others or does not have love for each other. They think they are going to step inside the gate with no problem as if better than Jesus himself. That will not be the case when he tells them depart from me I never knew you. Jesus is so misinterpreted by many who say they are Christians and are the farthest thing from it.
Lori seems to think that I’m no longer a Christian because of how Christians treated me; that I have been hurt by people. This simply is not true. Now, it is true that I have had countless vicious, hateful, nasty, vile Christians attack me since I left Christianity, but that was not the case while I was a Christian and a pastor. I was generally loved and respected. What should I make of all of this? I have concluded that Evangelicals have a hard time accepting people different from them. Their religion is built on a foundation of othering — us vs. them. Isn’t that exactly what Lori is doing in her email? She sees me as an “other,” someone who needs to be reclaimed for Jesus and restored to good standing with God and the Evangelical church.
I’m a Christian and yet I don’t agree with someone’s choices, my job is to pray for them and not judge them.
Lori says she doesn’t “judge” people, but that’s exactly what she did in her email. I am happy and at peace sans Jesus. Why not just accept that someone can be an atheist and live a fulfilled life? If I am happy with my life, isn’t that enough?
Just wanted to share with you this morning. I hope before your life is over you are able to find your way back to him.
I am sure readers noticed the subtle threats of Hell in Lori’s email She hopes and prays I repent and return to Jesus before I die. Why? Well, we know what will happen to me if I don’t: eternal torment and punishment in the Lake of Fire. No, Lori did not use the word Hell in her email, but it is implied in several statements she made about death.
I am, in fact, dying. Thanks to gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, degenerative spine disease, and a plethora of other serious health problems, I know my time on earth is short. Hopefully not soon, but I can feel the chilly hand of death on my neck. I intimately “feel” my mortality, yet I have no regrets over choosing to divorce Jesus. My life has been better in every way post-Jesus. I know that the Loris of the world cannot fathom a good life without God/Jesus/church/Bible, yet here I am, a shining advertisement for life’s possibilities after deconversion. Yes, I am in constant pain. Yes, life is hard and I literally and painfully struggle just to get out of bed in the morning. Yes, my life is littered with problems and trials. Yes, I am a weak, frail, contradictory man. Sometimes, I am a royal pain in the ass. Despite all these things, I wouldn’t trade my present life in the Promised Land for all the leeks and garlic in Egypt (Christianity). I am confident that when it comes time for me to die, I will be surrounded by the life of my life, six wonderful children and their spouses, and thirteen awesome grandchildren, and the last words from my lips will be, where’s the damn remote? 🙂
My advice is to go with your gut.
No, I plan to go with my mind. My “gut” can’t make up its mind. Diarrhea, constipation, nausea, vomiting, excruciating pain — sometimes all in one day. Last weekend, I had violent diarrhea, and before I could even finish my business I found myself face first in the toilet vomiting. At least I was able to flush before throwing up. 🙂 Small blessings from Loki, yes? I am sure Lori sees Jesus in this too. 🙂 Praise God, Jesus kept you from getting shit on your face! Come back to him today!
The spirit you feel when you listen to southern gospel music is Jesus reaching out.
No, it’s not. Lori provides no evidence for her claim, she just knows it’s true. All Lori needs to do is provide empirical evidence for her claim. Not a gut feeling, but actual testable evidence. Surely Lori and God can get together and provide this evidence for me. I’ll be waiting . . .
I read that you were having some health problems. Again I pray you go back to your roots and no matter what we’ve done Jesus’ forgiveness is waiting.
Lori suggests that my health problems are the result of my deconversion; that if I returned to Evangelical Christianity, my health would improve. Here’s the problem with Lori’s ill-informed “logic.” My health problems started DECADES before I deconverted. I first saw a doctor for my back in 1977, thirty years before I left Christianity. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 1997, a decade before I deconverted. Every one of my health problems except gastroparesis — an incurable stomach disease — predates my loss of faith. None of this, of course, will matter to Lori. She’s read two of my posts, sized me up, and rendered judgment.
His life is not just a story, but he lost his life to save ours. Again not here to judge you but felt compelled to reach out.
Lori keeps telling me that she’s not here to “judge” me, but her email suggests otherwise. Lori is likely convinced that telling me the “truth” is not judging. She’s just repeating what she thinks her version of God has said. Here’s the thing: I already know what God allegedly said. I am confident that I know the Bible far better than Lori. There’s nothing I need to know that I don’t know already. I realize this sounds arrogant, but I haven’t heard an original thought from an Evangelical in fifteen years. I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting.
Unlike Lori, I didn’t feel “compelled” to respond to her email. I am writing this post because I want to; I hope my response will be helpful to readers lurking in the shadows; I hope doubting Christians or readers who have left Christianity will find my response encouraging.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
One thing being a part of a church does for us is give us a community through which we find meaning, purpose, and identity. I spent the first fifty years of my life in the Christian church. For many years, I attended church twice on Sunday and on Wednesdays or Thursdays for prayer meeting. These church families I was a part of were central to my life. Most of my friendships were developed in connection with the church and my work as a pastor. I spent twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I developed scores of friendships, not only with congregants but also with colleagues in the ministry. As a pastor, I would attend pastor’s conferences and meetings. It was at these meetings that I had opportunities to talk with my preacher friends, sharing with them my “burdens.” We would laugh, cry, and pray together, knowing that the bond we had as fellow followers of Jesus and God-called preachers of the gospel was rooted in loving each other as Christ Jesus loved us. A handful of preachers became close, intimate friends with my wife and me. Our families would get together for food, fun, and fellowship — hallmarks of Baptist intimacy. We saw vulnerabilities in each other that our congregants never would. We could confide in each other, seeking advice on how to handle this or that problem or church member. When news of church difficulties came our way, we would call each other, or take each other out for lunch. These fellow men of God were dear to my heart, people that I expected to have as friends until I died.
As a teenager, I had lots of friends, male and female. Most of my friends were fellow church members, though I did have, thanks to playing sports, a few friends in the “world.” I always found it easy to meet new people and make friendships. I had no qualms about talking to complete strangers, a gift that suited me well as a pastor. As a nineteen-year-old boy, I enrolled in classes at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan. I quickly made a lot of new friends, including one who sleeps beside me to this day. I lived in a dorm room with three other men. Virtually every waking hour of my life was spent with fellow students — at church, school, and social events. As anyone who has ever lived in a college dormitory will tell you, dorm life is busy and full of activity. Practical jokes were an everyday occurrence, and, as a consummate jokester, I found great satisfaction in pulling one over on my fellow students. I lived on a dormitory wing that was labeled the “party” wing. The other dormitory wing was called the “spiritual” wing. My fellow party-wing residents loved Jesus, but they loved having a good time too. The spiritual wing? They loved Jesus too, but frowned on doing anything that might be perceived as bawdy or mischievous.
One day, a pastor by the name of A.V. Henderson preached at chapel (students were required to attend chapel five days a week). I have preached and heard thousands of sermons in my lifetime. I remember very few of them. I do, however, vividly remember Henderson’s sermon, even forty-five years later. Henderson was the pastor of Temple Baptist Church in Detroit. Temple was an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) megachurch founded by Baptist luminary J. Frank Norris and later pastored by G.B. Vick. The 1970s were the zenith of the IFB church movement. Most of the largest churches in the United States were IFB churches. Churches such as Temple Baptist were pastored by men who were great orators and pulpiteers. Henderson was no exception. Henderson’s chapel sermon was from the book of Job. It was, by all counts, a thrilling, rousing sermon. However, Henderson said something during his sermon that I didn’t, at the time, understand. He said, with that distinct Texas drawl of his, that people will go through life with very few true friendships; that most people were fortunate to have two or three lifelong friends. I thought at the time, what’s he talking about? I have lots of friends! Forty years-five later, I now know that A.V. Henderson was right; that true friends are rare indeed; that if you have two or three such friends, you should consider yourself fortunate.
It has been almost fifteen years since I last attended church; fifteen years since I have listened to preaching; fifteen years since I have sung the hymns of the faith; fifteen years since I have dropped money in an offering plate; fifteen years since I broke bread with people I considered my family. In early 2009, I sent a letter to my family and friends detailing my loss of faith. You can read the letter here: Dear Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners. I grossly underestimated how people would respond to my letter. In a matter of days, I received angry, venomous emails, letters, and phone calls. One ministerial colleague drove four hours to my home, hoping to turn me back towards the faith. You can read the letter I sent to him here: Dear Friend. I was shocked by how hateful and vitriolic my friends were to me. And here I am fifteen years later, and I still, on occasion, hear from someone who knew me and is shocked over my betrayal of all that I once held dear.
The friendships of a lifetime are now gone — all of them, save my friendship with an Evangelical man I have known for fifty-seven years (we walked to elementary school together). A.V. Henderson’s words ring true. I have one friend who has walked with me through every phase of my life. The rest of my “true” friends have written me off (2 Corinthians 6:14), kicked the dirt off their shoes (Mark 6:10, 11), or turned me over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh (I Corinthians 5). I was naive to think that it could be any other way.
Many people believe in unconditional love. I know, at one time, I did. I have learned, however, that unconditional love is largely a myth. (Please read Does God Love Us Unconditionally?) Unconditional love suggests that nothing we do to those we love can break the bond we have with them. Many people carry the notion of unconditional love into their friendships. We think, these people love me, no matter what. They will always be my friends. And then something happens. In my case, I spit in the face of God, pissed on the blood of Jesus, and used the pages of the Bible to wipe my ass, so to speak. I repudiated everything I once believed, and in doing so called into question the beliefs of my friends. The glue that held our friendships together was our fealty to a set of theological beliefs. Once these beliefs were questioned and discarded by me, that bond was irreparably broken. If the connection Christians have with their churches is akin to family, then when people walk away from the beliefs and practices of these families, they are, in effect, divorcing themselves from their families.
Marital divorce tears the bond between husband and wife. When Christians divorce themselves from Jesus, the bonds they have with their friends are ripped asunder. While this divorce can be amicable, most often it is not. My divorce from Jesus and the church was very much like a high-profile tabloid divorce. And even though the judge signed the divorce decree fifteen years ago, repercussions remain to this day.
I have learned that few friendships last a lifetime. Most friendships are dependent on time and location. Remember all your friends who signed your high school yearbook? Are you still friends with them today? Remember the best-buds-for-life from your college days? What happened to those friendships? Were these relationships true friendships? Sure, but they weren’t meant to last a lifetime. And that’s okay.
I don’t blame my former friends for the failure of our friendships. I am the one who moved. I am the one who changed his beliefs. I am the one who ripped apart the bond of our friendship. I do, however, hold them accountable for their horrendous treatment of me once I deconverted. They could have hugged me and said, I don’t understand WHY you are doing this, but I appreciate the good times we had together. I wish you, Polly, and the kids well. Instead, I was treated like dog shit on a shoe bottom; a person worthy of scorn, ridicule, and denunciation. By treating me this way, they destroyed any chance of restoration. Why would I ever want to be friends again with people who treated me like the scum of the earth?
I have spent the past decade and a half developing new friendships. These days, most of my friendships are digital — people who I will likely never meet face to face. This has resulted in Polly and me becoming closer, not only loving each other, but also enjoying each other’s company. For most of my marriage, Jesus, the church, and the ministry were my first loves. (Please see It’s Time to Tell the Truth: I Had an Affair.) It’s not that I didn’t love my children and wife, I did. But they were never number one in my life, and Polly and the kids knew it. I was a God-called man who devoted his life to Jesus and the church. Polly knew that marrying a preacher meant that she and the kids would have to share me with the church. (And her teachers in college and fellow pastor’s wives told her that’s how it had to be. God came first.) Little did she know that she would spend way too many years getting leftovers from a man who loved her but was worn out from burning the proverbial candle at both ends. Now that religion no longer gets between us, Polly and I are free to forge an unencumbered relationship. We have always loved each other, but what has now changed is that we really like each other too and are best friends. And in Polly, I have found one of the true friends A.V. Henderson preached about forty-five years ago. I am indeed, blessed.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Joe, the Evangelical, continues to email me. The count is now up to twenty-five comments and twenty emails. Today, Joe emailed me at 12:19 pm, 12:29 pm, 12:46 pm, 1:34 pm, 1:54 pm, 4:06 pm, 6:17 pm, and 8:08 pm. Joe even went over to ex-christian.net and said:
I don’t know but thought I would drop in to say I am still investigating every angle of deconversion. An older ex-Christian named Bruce in Ohio just threw me off his board and told me to f&$#$k off! I remembered that the Moderator here has much thicker skin, and is far more respectful to people. The man in Ohio immediately took offense when I quoted 1 John 2:19. But I wasn’t the one stating what it says in the verse— John the Apostle was!
I have not responded to any of Joe’s emails today, and I don’t plan to do so. I do plan to address some of what he said later in this post.
Here’s what Joe — a man who thinks he is Jesus — had to say:
Email One
I should have known you would do this. You opened up a door for me to respond to you. I tried to be civil in my response to you. I even explained I never said you were going to hell. But you insist on painting me in the worst way possible, and still insist you have the right to tell another person to f$#$k off at your leisure. You have only reinforced by your posts the fact that reconverts are very, very angry people with malicious attitudes. I will also share your blog with others to show them how a deconverted man reacts to discussions about God. How his hate is the dominant force in his life. You lost your soul for sure when you turned from Jesus—you no longer have a heart. Hate consumes you and is hunting you down now. Praise God he has saved me and continued to keep me. I pray I never wind up like you.
Email Two
This will absolutely be my last email to you Bruce. One day this will be reviewed as everything else will be before the Judgment seat of Christ. You will realize on that day that MANY people have tried to persuade you to repent from your decision to deconvert. You will realize then how you have treated those same people. I don’t care what you say Bruce— I genuinely continued to post on your site not to snidely judge people but to hopefully warn them and cause them to turn. But you are too hateful to accept that. I think there are other “lurkers” on your site that will be amazed to see the amount of hate you have towards Jesus Christ. In trying to “reveal” me on your site you have truly revealed yourself. I hope they see that and turn back to Jesus, seeing what they will turn into if they continue to reject Jesus. You may have committed the sin in 1 John 5:16 and I pray others will read your posts and beware. I know your response to all of this: f&$&$k off! Unfortunately those are the main words in your vocabulary now. Hopefully I’ve made your board more interesting. I note the SEQUELS keep coming Bruce. Otherwise the board is quite predictable and boring. Narcissists normally do have quite boring boards. Yours is no exception.
Email Three
By the way, you continue to shoot yourself in the foot Bruce. It’s your blog but you are centering on ME. I’m very flattered. Will there be a Part 5 and 6 also. I’ll go get my popcorn.
Email Four
It’s time to ‘fess up. You’ve been played. That’s why I’ve repeated twice now that you’re shooting yourself in the foot. I was VERY surprised the last Deconversion board that I was on I was the one who left–I wasn’t “thrown off” like you are doing. lol.
That moderator was VERY COOL and kept his composure. He knew I would continue to make the claims I was making but allowed me to continue. There were no personal attacks between he and myself, but I could tell he was very angered at my saying he was never a believer. I expected to be cussed at and removed but he never did. I had written a thread called “Israel: proof of God’s existence”. It might appear if you Google it. I’ve forgotten the name of the site.
But every other site I have visited had the same result: make a few posts, suffer harsh criticism, a few begin to cuss at you (but I never cuss back), and eventually the moderator bans you, or takes away your rights to post.
When I stumbled onto your site about Halloween and realized you were a deconvert, I said to my wife “I’ll bet I get banned within a week”. LOL. You took away my posting rights within TWO DAYS.
The majority of you are very angry people. Just read the posts on your “I hate Jesus” thread Bruce. So it doesn’t take much to get most of you all riled up. There is the occasional Michael (whom I take seriously) who is cordial and civil. But the majority are just like you Bruce. Ever heard the term “thick skin”? Deconverts do NOT have thick skin. LOL.
I email you again and again to see how much more I can rile you up. Man, you’ve dedicated 3 threads to me due to your anger.
I showed the most recent addition to the thread, PART 3 to my wife and she said “you should stop doing that. Someone is going to have a heart attack”. But I told her it was too much fun watching the reactions I was getting. I told her that “These people hate Jesus so much they spend HOURS talking about it”. And you most certainly do.
And it is pure guilt. You are afraid and I don’t blame you. You are rejecting the Lord of eternity. It displays itself in your anger and repeated reassurances to one another that Jesus is all “make-believe”. But Hebrews 10:26-31 states you are “expecting fearful judgment” It is something you cannot shake off no matter how hard you try to.
But you have all made your own choice to “trample upon the Son of God” (Hebrews 10:27) so I will continue to “play you” Bruce.
Oh– did I just ruffle your little feathers by emailing you again? Whoops! LOL. “How dare he continue to email me? I am Bruce Almighty and I asked him not to!” Ha ha ha ha
Will this email be in Part 4? Please entitle it “I continue to shoot myself in the foot” followed by 4 eggplants shaped like penises. That would be great. Ha ha.
Email Five
Google: “Deconversion Israel proves the existence of God”. Scroll down about 6 links. This is where I posted as Fish153 for quite a while. It is www.ex-christian.net. The Moderator was amazing. Very patient person. I truly admire him. He allowed me to post many different things and was confident enough in his own skin to not take it personally or ban me. I eventually left the board on my own. But I was told to f$@#k off many times by those without thick skin. I would feign surprise at their actions, but would never return the cursing.
I left the board admiring the man for allowing ALL views. I leave your board laughing. Another one shoots himself in the foot! Lol.
Email Six
Sing it with me Brittany: “Oops I did it again. I emai-eld Bruce, and now he’ll get mad, and send those egg plants…”Hey I wanted to let you know I’m drumming up readers for your blog. I was on another deconvert blog where they have allowed me to continue for some time now. I mentioned you. I didnt give your full name. I just said “A thin-skinned ex-Pastor and ex-Christian from Ohio named Bruce threw me off his board for quoting 1John 2:19 and stating he was never a Christian”. These people are used to seeing 1 John 2:19 quoted and being told they were never Christians. It goes with the territory. I also mentioned you have given me top billing on your board— even making sequels in parts 2 and 3 (so far). So I’m sure some will come to visit very soon. I think it’s always nice to get more readers for a blog. It definitely cannot hurt. All the best to you!
Email Seven
This is Joe’s wife. He doesn’t know I am sending this. Please stop encouraging him. You said “if he emails me again I will post it below”. Of course he e-mailed you. You left a door open for him. I am pleading with you to stop. Ever since Joe was very young he has been extremely frightened of Santa Claus. He was frightened to the point of psychosis.
A couple of days ago my husband dashed into the living room in tears and cried out “Santa Claus just told me to fuck off!!”
I seriously did not know what he meant until I saw your picture. “Why? Why? Why would Santa Claus tell me to fuck off?? He asked me.
All I could tell him is that maybe Santa is frustrated. Maybe he can’t fit down a chimney any more.
I know you’re not Santa, but he thinks you are. After he saw your picture his psychosis returned. He is a sick man.
And then, to top it off you send eggplant emogis. Joe is allergic to two things: Eggplant and Ohio. We have to avoid Ohio because he breaks out in hives if he goes near there.
So I have to ask you. For the sake of my husband please cease and desist. Do not “invite” him to e-mail you again or he will most definitely. I am asking politely. Thank you for listening.
Email Eight
You know, I had read almost everything on your blog except “Dear Jesus”. Deconverts always say it was nothing personal in their lives that turned them away from God. They say it was because of something they read, or due to Science, etc.
But it ALWAYS turns out to be something in their lives that caused them to turn away. When I read “Dear Jesus” I now see clearly why you are an apostate. You “served” Jesus, but “blamed” Jesus your whole life.
Your Mom, the divorce–“where were you Jesus?” I understand now Bruce. I PROMISE to never send you another email. I have badgered you with emails because I was genuinely upset that a former “Pastor” would tell me to “f” off.
There is another site that I am visiting again. They are a bit more understanding. There are some quick to curse there also, but that is to be expected.
I wasn’t aware of your sad past.. I’m truly sorry. But I have a far better understanding for your deconversion now. “Dear Jesus” is a real eye-opener to those looking for reasons for deconversion. My past is also sad but I don’t blame God for it.
Good luck with your blog. I am deleting every link to your blog, and regret barraging you with e-mails. Now that I understand your reason for turning back I regret not stopping earlier.
— end of emails —
Joe’s comments speak for themselves. I do want to address several things.
First, The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser is a blog, not a board.
Second, this is my personal blog. This blog has comment rules. Joe read these rules. He deliberately chose not to abide by these rules. He has no respect for me or the readers of this blog. I gave Joe rope to hang himself because I thought his comments (and emails) would be instructive, a reminder of the vile, ugly underbelly of Evangelical Christianity. Joe has certainly delivered.
Third, Joe has not read most of the 4,369 posts on this site. In fact, based on the server logs, Joe has read less than twenty posts.
Fourth, based on the server logs, this site has received no traffic from any of the ex-Christian sites.
If you have been reading this series of posts, it should be clear to you by now that Joe is a gaslighter, a liar, a bully, someone who isn’t used to someone standing up to him.
While Joe “apologized” in his last email, I don’t buy his apology, nor do I accept it. Joe is like an abusive husband who beats the shit out of his wife, abuses her with his words, and psychologically terrorizes her. And then, one day, he profusely apologizes to his wife, professes his love for her, promises to never, never abuse her again, and gives her $100 to buy a new dress. All is well, right? Nope. Days or weeks later, the husband abuses his wife again, a pattern of behavior that has been going on for years. Cause harm, apologize, cause harm, apologize, cause harm, apologize.
Joe tried to harm me, but failed. He tried to psychologically terrorize me, but failed. he tried to wound me, but failed. You see, contrary to what Joe says, I do have thick skin. Scores of “Joes” have come before Joe Sperling. I have been attacked and abused by God’s chosen ones over, and over, and over again. Years ago, Joe’s emails and comments would have caused harm. A decade of counseling has taught me how to deal with the Joes of the world. One way is to expose them, and that’s what I’ve done. Another way is to take their power away, the power to cause harm. And finally, putting people such as Joe in their place can be cathartic. I told Joe to “go fuck yourself,” not out of anger, but because I can. Joe can’t control what I say and that infuriates him.
Joe has repeatedly said he wouldn’t contact me again. We will see if he is a man of his word.
This is the last post in this series. Any further emails will be appended to this post.
Joe send me the following after this post was published:
Bruce– You tried to harm me and you succeeded. You tried to terrorize me and you succeeded. You tried to belittle me and you succeeded. Congratulations and goodbye.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
They want to do something immoral with impunity.This type of person wants to do something immoral that is forbidden by Christianity, like pre-marital sex or getting drunk in clubs with friends. They dump Christianity in order to have freedom to seek happiness in this life.
They want to make decisions based on their emotions, rather than wisdom.This type of person thinks that God’s job is to save them when they act irresponsibly. When God disappoints them by not make their recklessness “work out”, they leave the faith.
They want to be loved by people, not by God. This type of person thinks that Christianity is a tool that they can use to become popular. When they first try to articulate the gospel in public, they find that people don’t like them as much, and they feel bad about offending people with exclusive truth claims that they cannot back up using logic and evidence. So, they water down Christianity to get along with non-Christians. Finally, they jettison Christianity completely. This happens to a lot of young Christians the moment they hit college/university.
They don’t want to learn to defend their faith.This type of person is asked questions by skeptics that they cannot answer. Usually, this happens when people go to university after growing up in the shelter of the Church. The questions and peer pressure make them feel stupid. Rather than investigate Christianity to see if it’s true, they drop it, so they can be thought of as part of the “smart” crowd.
Let’s see, I have been married for forty-three years and I’ve never fucked anyone but my wife. I have no “secret” desires to sin. In fact, I suspect my godless life is quite Christian. Outside of my use of swear words, my TV viewing habits, and my love of whiskey, I am as moral and ethical as any Christian (not a very high standard, to be sure). Does Wintery Knight really want to get in a dick measuring contest to see who is more moral and ethical? (Please see the Black Collar Crime Series.) Wintery Knight thinks that Evangelicals-turned-atheists wanted to fuck with impunity (remember, it’s always about sex for Evangelicals) and that’s why they deconverted. Is that how it was for you? We can only wish, right? 🙂
Wintery Knight says Evangelicals-turned-atheists made decisions based on emotion, and when these decisions didn’t work out, they blamed God and deconverted. Was that the case for any of you? And let me be clear, all decisions are emotion-based. Humans are emotional creatures. “Wisdom” is a word used by Evangelicals to describe “thinking as God thinks” or “making decisions according to the Bible.” Atheists understand that we make the choices we do because we want to. Sometimes these decisions work out, sometimes they don’t. That’s life. I am almost sixty-five years old. I have made thousands of decisions in my lifetime. Good, bad, and indifferent. Unlike my wife, Polly, I have little problem making decisions. I spent most of my life working management-level jobs. Decision-making was expected of me. I have made some colossal mistakes over the years. Just ask Polly. 🙂 At no time as a Christian did I ever blame God when things didn’t turn out as I expected. (I asked WHERE was God in the post Dear Jesus, but I never blamed God for anything. I was a Calvinist, after all. Everything in my life was decreed by God, including my deconversion.) 🙂
Wintery Knight thinks Evangelicals-turned-atheists viewed Christianity as a way to become popular. Really? I mean, really? Does this remotely resemble your experience? Wintery Knight goes on to apply the slippery slope argument to Evangelicals-turned-atheists. We tried “to articulate the gospel in public,” found out [unsaved] people didn’t like us as much [duh, who likes someone who (unsolicited) interjects religion and politics in social settings?], and felt bad about offending people. So, we watered down Christianity to get along with unbelievers, and finally we “jettison [ed] Christianity completely.” I don’t know of one Evangelical-turned-atheist who would say Wintery Knight’s claim is true.
And finally, Wintery Knight says that Evangelicals-turned-atheists didn’t want to learn how to defend the faith; that they felt stupid when asked questions by unbelievers; so they deconverted so they could be considered part of the “smart crowd.”
Evidently, Wintery Knight hasn’t talked to many, if any, Evangelicals-turned-atheists. Most of the former Christians who read this blog are actually quite conversant in all things Christianity. They read and studied the Bible for years. In my case, I read the Bible from cover to cover numerous times. I spent thousands and thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible — roughly twenty hours a week. All told, I preached 4,000 sermons. I can safely say that I know the Bible inside and out. And I can say the same for the ex-Evangelical pastors, evangelists, missionaries, youth directors, worship leaders, college professors, and deacons, to name a few, who frequent this site. We left Christianity with full knowledge and eyes wide open.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
It’s Tuesday. A new day for Evangelical zealots to read the minds of Evangelicals-turned-atheists and tell them why they “really” deconverted, and what their “real” motivations were for abandoning Christianity. Elizabeth Prata is one such tone-deaf Evangelical.
There’s no such thing as an ex-Christian. Look at 1 John-
“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” (1 John 2:19)
John is saying here that people who ‘backslide’ and then fall away from the faith entirely, never really were saved to begin with. “They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him,” (Titus 1:16).
For many professing “ex-Christians”, it starts with apostasy, something Paul said there would be plenty of in the last days.
….
So the apostate’s progression is: profess Christ by mouth… but since there was no visible fruit to show the state of grace they were claiming on the inside, they were never really saved; fail to walk closely with Jesus by procrastinating in discipleship, bible study, prayer, and/or worship, furthering the distance between themselves and Jesus; listen to or promote destructive heresies that either they knowingly or unknowingly begin to believe, start doubting Christ’s sufficiency; doubt more, and then slide to full blown renunciation and end up in a state of atheism.
….
The end result of a Christian in name only – that is, one who claimed Jesus but never really believed – and is one who is at risk of being tempted by destructive heresies, and ultimately of apostasy. What comes next is atheism.
Atheism is a natural cul-de-sac in the road away from the cross.
….
After apostasy settles in and atheism rears its head, a person is well and truly now in the dangerous pits of despair, misplacing their burgeoning faith in something for a faith in nothing that will last forever.
I’m should just say “sigh” (please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”), but for the sake of the children 🙂 I will respond to Prata’s awful prattle.
It’s evident Prata has never meaningfully talked to Evangelicals-turned-atheists. Instead, much as countless other Evangelicals have done, she ignores their stories out of hand, justifying her boorish behavior by quoting the Bible. Much like Joe Sperber did in his email interaction with me, (please see Joe, The Evangelical, Likens My Life to Driving Off a Cliff and Committing Suicide) Prata uses 1 John 2:19 to justify her out-of-hand dismissal of deconversion stories:
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
According to Prata’s interpretation of this verse — a common interpretation — Evangelicals-turned-atheists were never Christians. Why? True Christians never leave the church. And make no mistake about it, the “us” in this verse is the local, visible church, and not the invisible, universal church. True Christians go to church and continue going to church all the days of their lives. Evangelicals-turned-atheists stopped going to church, so this is “proof” that they were never Christians.
This is akin to a man who was married to a woman for fifty years before divorcing his wife. The Pratas of the world say to the man, “you never were married.” Absurd, right? The man was married, and now he’s not. No amount of revision can change the fact that the man was married for fifty years. So it is when it comes to the deconversion stories of former Evangelicals. These people were once Christians and now they are not, regardless of what the Bible says. Facts are facts. Surely, that’s a “fact” we can all agree upon.
Here’s the money quote:
So the apostate’s progression is: profess Christ by mouth… but since there was no visible fruit to show the state of grace they were claiming on the inside, they were never really saved; fail to walk closely with Jesus by procrastinating in discipleship, bible study, prayer, and/or worship, furthering the distance between themselves and Jesus; listen to or promote destructive heresies that either they knowingly or unknowingly begin to believe, start doubting Christ’s sufficiency; doubt more, and then slide to full blown renunciation and end up in a state of atheism.
According to Prata, Evangelicals-turned-atheists never had “visible fruit to show the state of grace they were claiming on the inside.” In other words, their “works” didn’t match their words. Prata confidently states “Evangelicals-turned-atheists, procrastinated in discipleship, bible study, prayer, and/or worship, furthering the distance between themselves and Jesus; listening to or promoting destructive heresies.” Does this sound remotely true to you, especially those of you who were pastors, evangelists, missionaries, youth pastors, Sunday school teachers, deacons, Christian school teachers, and Evangelical college professors? Does this remotely sound true to those of you who were in church every time the doors were open? Of course not.
I was in the Evangelical church for fifty years, and a pastor for twenty-five years. I slavishly, passionately, and devotedly loved and followed Jesus. I forsook my houses, lands, and material possessions for the “sake of the call.” I devoted my life to preaching the gospel, winning souls, and building up the people of God. I daily read and studied the Bible, spending thousands and thousands of hours immersed in the Word. I preached 4,000 sermons. For years, I was an expositional preacher. I was not perfect, sinning daily in thought, word, and deed. But, the bend of my life (to quote John MacArthur) was towards holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. I raised my children up in nurture and admonition of the Lord. My wife and I, along with our six children, separated ourselves from the “world.” Personal holiness was important to us. We homeschooled our children, doing everything we could to train them up in the ways of the Lord. My theology certainly moderated and changed over the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry, but never strayed beyond Christian orthodoxy. Based on my story alone, it is abundantly clear that what Prata says about Evangelicals-turned-atheists is not true. I know she reads this blog, so I call on her to immediately repent and apologized to those whose character she has besmirched. Will she do so? I doubt it. Evangelicals drive cars that don’t have reverse gear. Certainty breeds arrogance, and arrogance precludes Evangelicals from admitting they are wrong.
Why do Evangelicals refuse to accept the stories of Evangelicals-turned-atheists at face value? Why do they close their eyes and plug their ears, pretending to not see and hear what is right in front of them? Why do they continue to quote Bible verses and sermonize? Why, if all else fails, do they turn to violence and torture porn, threatening Evangelicals-turned-atheists with eternal, everlasting torment in the Lake of Fire? Why do the stories of Evangelicals-turned-atheists bother them so much, often causing them to erupt in outrage? Why not just ignore those who deconvert, giving them over to Satan as the Apostle Paul did?
Here’s what I think: our stories scare the shit out of them. They know our stories ring true, yet we walked (or ran) away from God, Jesus, the Bible, and the church. And if this can happen to us, it could happen to them too. Over the years, several former church members — close friends — ended their friendships with me. Why? They found my story to be disconcerting. How is it possible that the man they called Preacher, the man who led them to Christ, baptized them, and taught them the Word of God, is an atheist? Unable to come to terms with my loss of faith, they distance themselves from me lest my atheist cooties rub off on them. One close ministerial colleague of mine, upon learning I left the faith, came to my home to beg me to reconsider. After hours of begging and pleading, it became clear to this man that I would never return to Christianity. (Please see Dear Friend.) He then begged me to NOT tell anyone about my deconversion, fearing that my doing so would lead people away from Jesus. Of course, I could not honor his request.
There’s nothing more powerful than a well-told story. This is why I am just one man with a story to tell. I write, people read, and decide for themselves whether my story rings true. Traffic numbers suggest that my story rings true for thousands and thousands of people. I receive frequent emails and comments from people thanking me for my writing. I am humbled by their kind words, reminders of the fact that my story matters. And so does yours. If you have not told your story, I hope you will consider doing so. Please contact me if you would like to share your story on this site.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I had a brief, unproductive — aren’t they all? — email interaction with an Evangelical man named Joe. Joe wrote to complain about a video I posted titled Ten Reasons Why You Should NEVER Celebrate Halloween:
I read your comments about Halloween and Awaken L.A. church. I am a member of the church and do not hold to what the video teaches. It does not represent the church at all. Most members haven’t even seen the video. I loved Halloween as a child and had loads of fun going door to door collecting candy. Personally I see no harm in dressing up and “trick or treating”.
The only harm I could see would be a small child idolizing Killers and dressing up like them (Freddy Krueger for example). As a child we dressed up as hobos, pirates, etc with your occasional “dracula”– but it was a fun time. Children will make up their own minds one day– we don’t need to force them not to trick or treat, or be afraid of one-day a year.
I just wanted to add those comments as your article appears to label our church as some Cult-like group which it is not. The Halloween video is the product of one over-zealous member of the church with little wisdom or real understanding. As I said I hadn’t even seen this video until you posted it.
I responded:
Thank you for contacting me.
This video is on the official YouTube channel for Awaken L.A. If it doesn’t represent the official position of the church, then the video should be removed. I suggest you ask church leadership why the video is on the church’s channel and if it represents the official position of the church. You may have a different opinion, but that doesn’t mean your pastor (s) or church does.
Have a good week.
Joe replied:
Thank you. I will talk to our Pastor.
Joe then sent me this email:
I read “Bishop’s Roulette”. One question: if the “majority” of people think as you do in America, how can Donald Trump be elected again? Or is your math just a bit off?
I didn’t respond to this email. Maybe MJ Lisbeth, the author of the Bishop’s Roulette article, will answer Joe in the comment section.
And then he sent me this email:
I read your blog about Midwestern Bible College. You mention you are the only one you know who became an atheist. It reminded me– out of all the students who attended my graduating class at Canoga Park High School here in California, only ONE has driven off a cliff to his death.
I responded:
Really? I mean, really? For fuck’s sake, are you trying to say that me leaving Christianity is akin to someone driving off a cliff to kill themselves?
Do better, Joe, do better.
Joe replied:
I promise no more messages (unless it’s OK with you) but I am very curious about you.
Have you ever read the book by Jean Messlier the Roman Catholic Priest who served his whole life in the Catholic church and then died? I’ve forgotten the Title of his book, but Voltaire loved it.
After he died they found his memoirs and he pronounced his atheism clearly. I read the book and found it to be fascinating. It was hard to believe he had spent his life as a priest if he never really believed any of what he was teaching.
I thought “is that possible”? Then I saw your story. Preach for 50 years then become an atheist? 2 years maybe, but 50 years?? But then I realized that 1 John 2:19 does not have a time limit to it. It simply says “They went out from us to show that they were NEVER really of us”. Pretty clear– no time frame given. I know you “believe” you were once a truly born again person–sanctified and saved. But 1 John 2: 19 shows that when one goes forth and denies the faith they are “showing clearly” that what they claim is simply not true.
Is that possible though? I think Jean Messlier proves it can be so. Messlier had “left” the church in spirit many years earlier. He only stayed because the church was his whole life. When he died though he revealed his heart.
I know my quoting 1 John 2:19 might anger you. But is is right there in the Bible.
I would be interested in corresponding a bit with you if possible. Dan Barker wrote a book called “Losing faith in faith”. Interesting title actually. Not “Losing faith in Jesus”– no, its “Losing faith in faith”. It speaks VOLUMES. I would just be interested in asking you some questions. I find deconverts to be fascinating.
I responded:
It’s impossible to have a meaningful discussion with someone who refuses to accept my story at face value; someone who can dismissively wave away my life with a quote of a Bible verse.
Fact: I once was a Christian and now I am not. Your inability to square that with your theology is your problem, not mine.
You say you are a Christian. Imagine if I said, “no you are not.” Right here in Harry Potter 6:66 it says you never were a Christian. Imagine me dismissing your story out of hand. No matter what you said, I replied, Harry Potter 6:66 says . . .
I hope you understand and appreciate how offensive your line of questioning really is.
Let me add, your comment betrays a lack of imagination, a lack of understanding of theological systems other than yours.
Joe replied:
I accept your story Bruce. I really believe you believe you were truly a Christian. A true Christian believes the Word of God. And perhaps you “used” to believe it. One is “born again” by believing the Word. But what if one in reality never really believed it? Intellectually they held to it– but from the heart they always doubted?
Is that possible? Yes– it is. For example: Jehovahs Witnesses intellectually assent to the Word. But they are not “born again”. They follow “the letter” but not “the Spirit”.One could be a Jehovah’s Witness for 50 years and not be truly “saved”. Yes–its possible.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are sincere. But they are sincerely wrong. Because I AM a Christian I believe the Word. And it says in 1 John 2:19 that those who abandon the faith were never really of the faith– or they wouldn’t LEAVE it. There is no Harry Potter 6:66 in reality. But there IS a 1 John 2:19. And I believe it is God’s Word. I don’t dismiss your story. It’s real. It’s just that what you state is fantasy– you never were a true Christian. By leaving the Faith you PROVE that to be true.
Joe added:
Yes. To me leaving Christianity is like driving off a cliff. To have been SO close to Heaven and then turn back like those in Hebrews 6:4-6 is insanity. Being the “only one” from your school to become an atheist is no badge of honor. The people in Hebrews 6:4-6 are rare. But I would not want to be one of them. That’s for sure.
I did not respond to his last two emails. Why bother, right?
Another fruitless conversation with an obtuse, tone-deaf Evangelical Christian. Joe says he is interested in “understanding” the stories of people who leave Christianity, but this simply is not so. He just could not bring himself to understand my story at “face value,” — as factually true. Instead of accepting as true that I once was a Christian, Joe says I might have thought I was a Christian, but the Bible says otherwise. His mind is closed off from any worldview or belief system but his own. This is what Fundamentalism does to a person, robbing them of the ability to see things as they are. By any objective standard, I was a Christian, a child of God, one who was born from above. I pastored thousands of people over the years and was friends with numerous Evangelical pastors, missionaries, evangelists, and other church leaders. Not one person EVER said, “Bruce Gerencser is not a Christian.” Either I was a master of deception, deceiving thousands of people into believing I was a follower of Jesus, or I was who and what I said I was.
No matter what I say, Joe knows better. Why? The BIBLE says . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Several years ago, I received the following email:
So, when you were a Christian, did you have a relationship with the Lord? And if you did, did you not study the bible, asking Him how you should apply what is written into your life? Did you not realize all the he said, she said of different Christian religions is all man made, laws and rituals (earthly confusion I think making others/us separated from God ) and not to be our basis for judging one another, because that is God’s job anyways.
I was raised catholic. I married a divorced Lutheran, and my scales were slowly being removed, as my mother in law told me, you know there will be others besides catholics in heaven…that rocked my world. . Fast forward 25 years of living in Houston Texas and many different Christian churches, all having nuances that makes them their label, but the church began when Jesus started preaching? Or died? I don’t really know, but does that affect my salvation? I believe no one shall come to the Father except through the Son. So, how did you break off your relationship with Our Lord? You know, He’s never let go of you and there’s nothing you can do to separate His love for you. I’m glad I don’t have it all figured out, because I bet you don’t have peace if you’re still lost in this stuff you’re trying to hold onto. Pride is a sneaky thing. But God loves His perfectly imperfect children.
Let me see if I can unpack some of what the letter writer says and asks, hopefully providing adequate answers to her questions.
The letter writer asserts that once someone becomes a Christian Jesus holds on to them f-o-r-e-v-e-r. She tells me that nothing can separate the believer from the love of Christ. Romans 8:31-39 states:
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This means that if I was ever truly a Christian, I still am. No matter what I say or do, Jesus still loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life.
Based on her questions, I suspect that the letter writer has some doubts about whether I truly was ever a saved, sanctified, bought-by-the-blood Christian. She asks, did you have a relationship with the Lord? Of course I did. For most of my life, I was closer to and more intimate with Jesus than I was with my wife. I loved Jesus more than I loved my spouse and children. Jesus was the be-all and the end-all, the first and the last, the alpha and omega. I spent time daily talking to Jesus and reading his favorite book — the King James Version of the Protestant Bible. No one ever doubted who Bruce Gerencser put first in his life. I know Polly didn’t, and it wouldn’t have surprised me if she had divorced me, alleging neglect. I am grateful that she didn’t, and now I have the opportunity to show her who it is I really, really, really love, worship, and adore.
The letter writer also asks if I studied the Bible and sought to apply its teachings to my life. I sure did, day in, day out from the age of fifteen to the age of fifty. The word of God was an ever-present reality in my life. I studied, memorized, and practiced its words. As many aging ex-Christians with fading memories do, I have a hard time remembering what I watched on TV last night, but I can quote hundreds of Bible verses I memorized decades ago — all the way back to age five. As a pastor, I spent, on average, more than twenty hours a week reading and studying the Bible. From such studious endeavors, I bathed myself in THUS SAITH THE LORD. I preached thousands of sermons and shared the gospel of Christ with hundreds and hundreds of people. Simply put, I was all in when it came to following Jesus (as anyone who knew me at the time will tell you).
The letter writer wonders if I have peace. Yes and no, When it comes answering the question, do gods exist, I have no worries or concerns about saying NO. I am at peace with my atheism and humanistic beliefs. I have no fears of judgment or Hell. So, from this perspective, I have a Gandhian-level of peace. That said, I can’t say that I am totally at peace. How can I be? I watch the news every night. Scary stuff going on in the world. That said, most, if not all, of these things are out of my control. Generally, I am stoic about life, a pessimist with streaks of hopefulness.
I am almost sixty-five years old, and most of my life is in the rear-view mirror. My children and grandchildren, however, have many roads to travel before reaching home. I want them to have a better tomorrow, one where love, peace, and justice prevail. So while current events worry the heavenly hell out of me, I am committed to doing all I can to make the world a better place to live. One way I do so is to lay an ax to the bare root of Christian Fundamentalism, hoping that, in time, this tree of hate and bigotry will come crashing to the ground. And then I plan to chop the tree into firewood, have a bonfire, and roast hot dogs and marshmallows over its dying ember.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
No matter how many posts I write about the reasons I left Christianity (please see Why?), I still get comments and emails from well-meaning Christians who think that the “real” reason I am not a Christian is that “bad” Christians hurt me. The thinking goes something like this: bad Christians psychologically harmed me in some way, resulting in my rejection of Christianity and my embracing of atheism. It seems that these armchair psychologists know more about me than I do.
I suspect the reason they refuse to accept my story at face value is that they cannot fathom why anyone would ever want to get a divorce from Jesus. In their minds, Jesus is a wonderful friend, companion, and lover, better than any that can be found in the universe or to infinity and beyond (to quote Buzz Lightyear). Who in their right mind would reject the love of Jesus, the forgiveness of sins, and the promise of eternal life in Heaven after death? How about someone who thinks that Jesus was a mere mortal who lived and died; that the need for forgiveness of sins is a religious con game used to prop up church attendance and offerings; that the only thing that awaits humans after death is eternal decay, darkness, and silence?
You see, the reason I am not a Christian today has little to do with whether someone hurt me at some point in time during my fifty years in the Christian church and the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry. Sure, I met a lot of hurt and heartache along the way. Some of the nastiest, meanest, most cantankerous people I’ve ever known, I met in church. But, some of the kindest, nicest, and most loving people I’ve ever known, I’ve met in church as well. In fact, the overwhelming majority of Christian people I’ve known over the years are good people. I may now think that they have some crazy beliefs, but that doesn’t mean they are bad people. I’ve met more than a few atheists who have crazy beliefs, including a few who voted for Donald Trump. I cannot for the life of me understand how atheists could vote for Trump, but they did. Does the fact that they voted for Trump mean that they are now bad people? Of course not! So it is with Christians.
Christians who think my atheism is the direct result of exposure to the wrong kind of Christians must answer me this: since most of the Christians I was exposed to in my life were good people, why wasn’t their goodness enough to keep me on the straight and narrow? Shallow is the belief that rests alone on the goodness or badness of believers. On any given day, Christians can be found doing good and bad things, and the same can be said for atheists. It is impossible, then, to judge the merits of Christianity or atheism based on behavior alone. Yes, I think Evangelical Christianity, with its self-righteous moralizing, promises far more than it delivers. Yes, I think many preachers preach one thing and live another — I know I did and I know many other pastors who did the same. Yes, I have an ax to grind, a bone to pick — or any other metaphor you can think of — with Evangelicals who pontificate about morality and right belief, then ride the moral high horse, only to then be exposed as liars and hypocrites. Yes, I have no patience for denominations, churches, and pastors who turn a blind eye to child sexual abuse and other criminal acts, choosing instead to put the testimony of the church above the harm caused by offenders. Yes, I can find countless things that I don’t like about not only Evangelicalism, but progressive and liberal Christianity too. But, even taking all of this into account, most Christians are good people. I wish Christians would return the favor by saying that most atheists are good people too. I suppose this is too much to ask. Without atheists, agnostics, humanists, and secularists, who would Evangelicals have to fight? As long as they can paint people such as myself as workers of Satan, there will always be a mythical enemy to fight.
Let me, one last time, be clear on why I am not a Christian. While there are certainly psychological reasons that played a part in my decision to walk away from Christianity, they are not the primary reasons I did so. If I had found that the Christian narrative was true, I would’ve kept believing regardless of how people treated me. However, through much study, I determined that the central tenets of Christianity were not true. While I believe that Jesus was a historical person, I do not think that he was God, virgin-born, worked miracles, resurrected from the dead, or ascended to Heaven. The Jesus who walked the dusty roads of Palestine was likely some sort of apocalyptic preacher who lived and died, end of story. I also think that the Bible is not in any way an inspired, inerrant, infallible text written by God, either directly or through men as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The Bible is littered with errors and contradictions and lacks internal consistency. While certainly the Bible has deeply influenced Western civilization, so have other books, yet we don’t consider these books to be of divine origin. I also reject many of the moral teachings of the Bible. In particular, I reject the notion that humans are broken sinners in need of redemption; that there is any such thing called original “sin.” Sin is a religious construct used to control people through fear of judgment and damnation if they don’t cower before Jesus and the church and ask for the forgiveness of sins. I consider many of the teachings of the Bible to be anti-human, used to subjugate women and control children.
I hope this short post makes it clear to those desperate to suss out the “real” reasons for my deconversion that the primary motivator for my loss of faith is intellectual, not psychological. Sure as the sun rises in the morning, I will get emails apologizing for how “bad” Christians treated me, hoping that I will give Jesus another chance by finding a church of “good” Christians. In responding to them, I will send them the link to this post. There is really nothing more that I can say on this matter.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
