Over the weekend, an Evangelical (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist?) man named Richard left the following comment on a post titled IFB Church Member Takes Issue With a Post I Wrote about Tony Hutson and Middle Tennessee Baptist Church. All spelling and grammar in the original. My response is indented and italicized.
Local Christian churches are full of those who claim to be Christians but are not. The same goes for churches that claim to be Christian but are not. Many like to follow the man (preacher) & hold him up as an idol.
How could Richard possibly know this? Is he God? Shouldn’t who is and isn’t a Christian be left up to God? Richard, of course, KNOWS that he is a Christian; that his church is a True Christian church, so he uses his personal experiences and his church as the standard by which he judges others. 2 Corinthians 10:12 says: “or we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.” It’s a bad idea to use ourselves as the standard by which we judge others.
You can use the excuse all day this is why you left this church, that or Christianity. If you never possessed the Holy Spirit you never were a Christian in the first place. There is no way Bruce was ever a Christian but if it’s true he was a pastor then he filled those typical fake Christian churches.
Welp, Richard, my boy, I did possess the Holy Ghost. My life gave evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. The arc of my life was towards holiness. I was a true-blue devoted follower of Jesus. That Richard can’t square my present life with my past is his problem, not mine. It is up to Richard to provide evidence for his claims. Talk to my wife and children. Talk to those who called me preacher. Talk to my colleagues in the ministry. I double-dog dare you to find one person who, at the time, said, I wasn’t a Christian.
If Richard is a Christian — and I don’t doubt that he is — so was I. When someone tells me that he is a Christian, I accept his self-identification at face value. I wish zealots such a Richard would do the same. Of course, he won’t. The testimonies of people such as myself are kryptonite to beliefs. Thus, he must, despite evidence to the contrary, maintain I never was a Christian.
He claims to have read the bible numerous times which says nothing. You can read the bible all you want but if you don’t have the Holy Spirit to take you through the Living Word of God then the mysteries will never be revealed and it will just be foolish to you.
Except it wasn’t, and the Holy Spirit did guide me through the Bible as I read it numerous times and preached 4,000 sermons. I spent, on average, 20 hours a week, reading and studying the Bible over the course of twenty-five years in the ministry. Does Richard really expect anyone to believe that I was a fraud; a liar; a deceiver; a false prophet? Even God is shaking his head. 🙂
Most of you have hardened your hearts & God has come in turned you over to that, nothing odd about that, your futures are sealed.
Richard now turns his judgment toward the readers of this blog, not knowing that many of them are Christians. In his addled mind, we are reprobates; people who have hardened hearts; people who cannot be saved (according to Romans 1 and 2).
It is hard not to conclude that Richard is a judgmental prick.
It is this that burns you up inside.
What burns me up inside is hot food. Evidently, Richard has psychic abilities he uses to see inside of us. Amazing, right?
I couldn’t imagine The feeling knowing God & His Holy Spirit abandoned me, of course you’d have to have known Him first to feel that.
So which is it? Did I know God and the Holy Spirit, or didn’t I? Come on, Richard, get it right!
Even though most of you never really have you do feel the guilt of where you are going, this is plainly written in your remarks.
Again, Richard changes his mind. This time, we don’t feel the hunka, hunka, hunka burning love of the Holy Ghost on our innards, but we do feel guilty about “where we are going.” Chicago? Detroit? New York? LA? London?
The only guilt I feel is the over past harm I caused as an Evangelical pastor, husband, and father.
I feel for you but then again I don’t, you clearly denied Him & continue to do so. It honestly sucks to be you
Richard, be honest. You don’t give a shit about me or the readers of this blog. If you did, you would have behaved differently. Instead, you are just the latest example of a judgmental Evangelical who only cares about preaching AT people. Good job. What, exactly, do you think you accomplished for the kingdom of God?
I would love to compare lives with you. I have been married for forty-five years. We have six adult children, thirteen grandchildren, and two cats. While it is true that I am quite sick and on the short side of life, I am blessed beyond measure, grateful for all that I have. And the Reds have won four straight! Woo! Hoo!
What sucks is people like you; people who have lost all sense of decency, kindness, and respect for others. You said your piece, Richard. I am sure God is pleased by how you represented him.
BTW, I haven’t denied God. What I have done is reject the insufficient evidence presented for his existence. If you have better evidence, Richard, please provide it. Maybe you will be the one to win me to Jesus. Oh wait, you can’t. You have already determined I am a reprobate; a man headed for Hell, without recourse. You better hope you are not wrong. Imagine what God will say to you come judgment day?
Saved by Reason,
Richard’s response to this post:
Wouldn’t expect anything less for a response to attempt to justify yourself as an atheist & what you claim as a humanist – LOL. I just find your love affair for the IFB very humorous as I stumbled onto to your blog that attempts to discredit it. Most interesting were the comments of poor followers that agreed with you all beaten down and claimed to have PTSD. LOL rebellion. Funny how anything fundamental scares people. How dare people in 2023 take the Word of God literally when we should be re-creating God in our own image. I mean after all, Hollywood, the state & government say marriage between a man and a man is good & legal, after all they claim now up to 150 genders. How dare the church say women shouldn’t wear them hot britches and spray on tops, I mean it’s up to them men not to be tempted of lust. I applaud those IFB’s that do this and turns off those that disagree. Obviously you have a refuge those that are hurt because no means no. It’s only humanistic to build an army of like minded antichrists & atheists to make you feel better. If them queer suspenders do it for you then be my guest.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I considered all kinds of things to say to/ about this guy, but then I realized there’s no point in it.
I can’t insult him into any sort of intelligence.
These people are obviously conflicted in their minds. I’d refer to it as cognitive dissonance but it’s much more deeply ingrained than this, I assume as the result of constant indoctrination and self delusion. If we change course in anything else in our lives, from liking to watch football, then not, or liking to walk, then not, or enjoying curries, then not, I have no doubt that Richard would accept that. Yet when it comes to Christianity different rules apply, when to an outsider it’s not different. What’s so hard accepting that a person can immerse themselves hook, line, and sinker in a belief, be a fully paid up member, even leader, in this belief club, then one day change their mind and leave? Doesn’t mean they weren’t a full member but, of course, the likes of Richard have to resort to yet more make believe, as though their core beliefs aren’t bad enough, to explain away why there are people who change their minds.
Its amazing how Evangelicals suddenly think they are mind readers when they start developing theories of why we left.
A family friend wrote to me explaining that Merle was too enamored with Jack Hyles and that Merle had no means of hope when Jack Hyles failed, so Merle turned away in despair. He went on and on, writing directly to me, but speaking to me in the third person. If he wanted to know what was going on in my mind, he could have asked. Or he could have simply read it on my blog, which he knew about. Instead he resorted to telling me in the third person why I changed my mind. Ridiculous.
Where is your blog? I’d like to know so I can read it.
It is http://www.mindsetfree.blog
When folks like Richard write, they remind me of 9th grade kids who have to do a research paper but don’t know how to use credible sources to support what they’ve written. 🫤
When people believe in things for which there is no evidence, it’s difficult to have a conversation with them regarding that belief. They don’t have evidence for the thing they believe, but they are unwilling to give up the belief and will often double down on said belief. I haven’t figured out a way to get through to someone who believes that the Easter Bunny is real and has a plan for my life and will send me to the boiling pot for eternity if I don’t give him all the decorated eggs, dress in pastels, and try to win others over to the Bunnyverse.
My flip answer to someone who claims I never was a True Christian because I wasn’t indwelt by the Holy Spirit is, “You’re right – and you aren’t either because there isn’t a Holy Spirit”. But the truth is that when I was a Christian I did believe there was a Holy Spirit who inhabited my soul, and we could get into some weird Calvinistic arguments otherwise.
“I couldn’t imagine The feeling knowing God & His Holy Spirit abandoned me, of course you’d have to have known Him first to feel that.”
I couldn’t imagine it either, until it happened. If I never believed, why was I so upset when my belief started to fail and God was silent to my prayers for help? Please don’t try to say that I deluded myself that I believed in God, in Jesus, for decades. How is deluding yourself that you believe in something any different from believing in it. That reasoning just doesn’t make any sense.
“It honestly sucks to be you”
Yes, sometimes it does.
Richard, I totally get what your are saying. Seriously, who can understand the Bible without the Holy Spirit?
I clearly see what you are saying…to paraphrase “God, I thank You that I am not like theses other men – atheists, backsliders, trans and LGBTQIA+ – or even this blogging reprobate,,,” seriously, I get it – like words straight from the mouth of God. These words should be written in red so everyone can see the importance. It clearly separates the godly from the pretenders
It’s really to bad the Holy Spirit can’t help with understanding this message. What else can be said? Clearly the message is missed…he who has ears let him hear.
🙄🙄😉😉😈😈😈😈
Here’s Richard’s response:
“Wouldn’t expect anything less for a response to attempt to justify yourself as an atheist & what you claim as a humanist – LOL. I just find your love affair for the IFB very humorous as I stumbled onto to your blog that attempts to discredit it. Most interesting were the comments of poor followers that agreed with you all beaten down and claimed to have PTSD. LOL rebellion. Funny how anything fundamental scares people. How dare people in 2023 take the Word of God literally when we should be re-creating God in our own image. I mean after all, Hollywood, the state & government say marriage between a man and a man is good & legal, after all they claim now up to 150 genders. How dare the church say women shouldn’t wear them hot britches and spray on tops, I mean it’s up to them men not to be tempted of lust. I applaud those IFB’s that do this and turns off those that disagree. Obviously you have a refuge those that are hurt because no means no. It’s only humanistic to build an army of like minded antichrists & atheists to make you feel better. If them queer suspenders do it for you then be my guest”
Richard isn’t IFB, but he’s IFB adjacent — bigoted, homophobic, dismissive of anyone different from him. Yet, he’s a carpet cleaning business owner. He sure love ❤️ our money 💴.
I envy Richard his black and white worldview. It must be very comforting to have all the answer given to you, know that you are right, that anyone who questions your conviction is wrong and that they will be punished accordingly for it.