Having a bit of extra time on my hands as I impatiently wait for Thanksgiving Day (family, food, and football) to arrive, I decided to comment on a recent blog post written by my friend Gary. You can read his post and my comments here. Into the discussion came a Fundamentalist Lutheran by the name of Jim Pierce. Pierce is a member of The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS). He swears he and his sect are most definitely NOT Fundamentalist. If you have some time, please read his comments on Gary’s blog. I’ll leave it to you to decide if Pierce is a Fundamentalist. For the purpose of this post, I want to share several of Jim’s comments that were directed my way. His comments are a fresh reminder that even if Evangelical Christianity’s narrative is true, I still wouldn’t become a Christian if it meant I had to go to church and heaven with the Jim Pierces of the world. No thanks. Give me hell every time. In fact, heaven for me would be the absence of such people. Dear Lord Jesus, PLEASE rapture your chosen ones ASAP.
“I’m just not pointing fingers where I don’t know what I’m talking about.” Taken in context, I think he’s got his grammar wrong, but whatever. As far as I can tell, he’s pointing a single finger, specifically the middle one, straight up.
Having a blog makes you an evangelical atheist? I think you’re good at pointing out the negative side of Christianity, especially the fundagelical version, but that by itself isn’t evangelical atheism to me. I suspect he believes anyone who isn’t a member of his specific faith is really an atheist, anyhow.
You’ve commented about the Missouri Synod churches being evangelical before. I might eventually look into their history. My Dad grew up in a Missouri Synod church, and evangelism was unthinkable to him. He respected anyone with strong ethics, regardless of their religious faith or lack of one, and his own personal religious practice was focused on loving his neighbors and doing unto everyone as he would have done unto himself. But his church experience was in the 1910s/20s/early 30s. Churches can change a whole lot in 80 years.
When I label a sect or church Fundamentalist, I do so based on their official doctrinal statement and their positions on social issues. Individual LCMS churches and pastors might be more moderate, but they are still part of a Fundamentalist sect. The LCMS position on core theological beliefs puts them squarely in the Evangelical camp.
The LCMS churches here are quite conservative, but do not spend much time evangelizing people outside of the church. Polly and I visited LCMS churches during our wandering days — both in Ohio and Arizona. None of these churches showed any interest in our family. One local church we visited….we got in and out without anyone saying a word to us. The pastor was standing at the back when we left. He saw us, but he was too busy talking about deer hunting to greet us.
As Bugs Bunny might have said concerning Mr. Pierce, “What a maroon!”. Your comments were great, especially about robbing others of eternal life. LOL! I’m generally live and let live, but people like that irk me to no end. You deserve better.
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your comments on my blog. Keep up the fight against religious superstitions and the bigotry and persecution they engender.
Gary
I remain baffled and slightly amused by the way so many of your critics can apparently read your mind, and use their psychic powers to determine the truth of your heart. I don’t recall having Jedi powers back when I was a Christian…
Yep. There are two people who really, really know me: Polly and my counselor. A man who has never talked to me or commented on my blog? Well, he doesn’t know jack shit.
Well, he might know Jack Shit – after all, he KNOWS Jesus Christ! 🙂
Hi Bruce,
Jim shows considerable disrespect when he calls you “a hack and nothing more”. If Jesus taught his disciples to love others as themselves (and Jim claims to be a disciple of Jesus), does he not see how this would turn ex Christians and other non Christians off? He says that he will pray for you to return to Jesus, but fails to show compassion, loving kindness and healing mercy in his dialogue. It seems that many theological conservatives have difficulty in showing respect towards those with whom they disagree.
Praying to Jesus is useless. It’s easy to say that one will do this, but shouldn’t Christians let their light of love shine? It may not persuade (unless good arguments are presented, backed up by evidence), but it would silence the charge (which is all too often true) that too many Christians are hypocrites.
Shalom,
John Arthur
JK Rowling once said that she ran across some fundies once and afterward mentioned that “I’m praying for you” never felt so intimidating. Or was it preying?
Never thought of that before, Trenton! Preying…honestly, that makes perfect sense in this context!
Let me add my chuckle-upchuck in response to the tone of the chosen, the one who speaks with authority and in declarative phrases! Let me tell you Bruce, you little useless atheist evangelist, how very duped you are. I have been you!
My goodness gracious, Bruce. The man has actually been you. Bruce, if I was in your pathetic, unbelieving boots, I would run to my closet and collect all my underwear etc. and dispose of it poste-haste! And the sex toys too! I can only begin to horrifyingly imagine what this man might have done with them while he was being you. Wow, he sure nailed you up for all of us to finally see in focus and with the depth of vision heretofore unseen in these here parts! Sir, you have been mortally Pierced. Lay down your weapons and admit your miserable defeat.
(Jim Pierce, not only have you not ever been Bruce G., it is clear to me that you are not even the man who wears your own name. You are a billboard for a fast-food fantasy, sir. A little declarative perhaps but well, I am a preacher’s son afterall!)
Real christian attitude on his part. Lcms is fundy and you have understood him quite well.
Tim
Bruce, is there any way to “like” comments here like over on Gary’s blog. You and many other people have left some really good ones. I seldom reply to them, but would probably “like” several of them were that possible.
Why do these God-botherers think the way to win someone over is to act like bloody wankers? Yup insults and bitchiness, a 100% guaranteed way of looking like a fuckface. For what it’s worth I think your blog is awesome, Jim wouldn’t know shit and is jealous.
I’d take it as a (cleary black-handed) compliment. You are not a shouting street preacher of atheism, yet your blog does reach people and he resents that. So continue preaching I’d say 🙂
Fundamentalist Christians such as Jim have been indoctrinated to believe that people who do not share their views are not only wrong, but evil, and anyone who actively attempts to deconvert the faithful (such as Bruce and me) is the epitome of evil. Fundamentalist Christians see us as the “filth” that the Bible says we are.
It is a sick belief system.
Bruce, I feel like the people writing are kinda scary. I hope that if someone feels the urge to call you names, pretend they know you etc aren’t really worth the time for you to respond. I also hope you don’t let them discourage you. You have a powerful voice, and any time I hear someone profess confusion about atheism or questioning people who are agnostic I mention your blog. And to read, a lot, of your escape from Fundie exisitence. You have helped many people understand what and why you deconverted. I hope initially people do sit back and let you be Bruce. Your education and experience of preaching have really honed your writings for people who are curious, or realize there may be people who have had various horrible experiences with faith in general, and got out ASAP. You, and everyone on this blog gave me my brother back. I can only deal with my own issues, I have no idea how people have time to look around, and try to fix other people. As for this Jim, he needs to re-read the Sermon on the Mount, and James if he is really a Christ-ian
I know you must be completely devastated that Jim is not impressed with your blog. I’ve seen how you’ve been sitting there, waiting for years, dreaming of the day when the god among men that the world only knows as Jim Pierce would come by and peruse your writings. Surely you were giddy with excitement, deeply and shamelessly coveting the praise that would no doubt be forthcoming. After all, his approval has great meaning and depth in today’s world. I can only venture a guess at the heartbreak and agonizing sorrow that you must be feeling with the realization that His Majesty, Jim Pierce, withheld his stamp of approval of your work. I see that you’ve changed your Facebook profile photo to one of sackcloth and ashes, and my heart aches for you, now that your life’s apex has been reached and your career as an influential former preacher and blogger begins its decline into obscurity.
After all, his opinion matters! Unlike the opinions of all the two-bit nobodies that comprise the rest of the internet. Nobody gives two half-hearted thirty-fifth anniversary pity fucks about those backwood hillbillies. But Jim Pierce… Jim is a man whose importance rivals that of Mahatma Gandhi, and now that he’s panned your work, you may as well start selling chrysanthemums on the side of the highway. Bless your heart, Bruce.