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Will There be Any Women in Heaven? Hint, the Answer is No!

philippians-3-20Caution! Snark ahead! You have been warned.

One of the more bizarre beliefs found within the confines of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement is that there will be no women in Heaven. That’s right, ladies, there will be NO females in Heaven. The thinking goes something like this: God, the father is male and Jesus is male. In Heaven, Christians will receive perfect resurrected bodies just like Jesus’. Thus, everyone in Heaven will be a thirty-three-year-old male. This means, of course, that God promotes and supports Transgenderism for women. Time to get your male on, ladies. Prepare now for eternity in Heaven as a m-a-n.

The late Peter Ruckman, a noted IFB preacher and defender of the King James Bible, had this to say about women in Heaven:

This means that every saved woman in the body of Christ is indwelt by a MAN, at least as far as sexual designations are concerned. Someday, the saved woman will be fashioned “LIKE UNTO HIS GLORIOUS BODY” (Philippians 3:21). (Bible Believers’ Bulletin. May 1986, page 3)

This would mean that every saved woman in the body of Christ will eventually become a THIRTY-THREE AND ONE-HALF YEAR OLD, SINLESS MALE (Phil. 3:20-21). She would be a perfect replica of the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29). (Bible Believers’ Bulletin. May 1986, page 3)So up in Heaven, ladies, you are going to be a 33 1/2-year-old male just

like your Saviour. If that seems odd or peculiar or distasteful to you Christian ladies, just remember that you have a man living inside of you (1 Tim. 2:5 cf. Col. 1:27), and that your destiny as a child of God is to be conformed to that man’s image (Romans 8:29). (The Book of Luke: The Bible Believer’s Commentary Series, page 636)

Since every Christian in the Body of Christ has a MAN inside him (or her) (Colossians 1:27; John 1:12) and is PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of that man (2 Corinthians 4:4; Romans 8:29; 1 John 3:1-4; Philippians 3:21), there is no question at all about the future state of every Christian in the Body of Christ, except in the minds of Hebrew and Greek professors and the “vast majority of conservative, Bible-rejecting blockheads.” The believer will appear in glory as a 33-year old sinless male. (22 Years of the Bible Believer’s Bulletin Vol. 1 “The AV Holy Bible” page 110)

Moreover, everyone in heaven is a male…The woman is a “womb-man,” a man with a womb.
(The Books of First and Second Corinthians: The Bible Believer’s Commentary Series, page 343)

The indication is that the only people who get a glorified body like Jesus Christ are people in the Church Age. The only people who get a 33-year-old sinless [male, see p. 596] body are people saved in the dispensation of grace. All others get their eternal life by partaking of a tree, and they go into eternity male and female, exactly like Adam and Eve were before they fell. (The Book of Revelation: The Bible Believer’s Commentary Series page 587)

Is it any wonder then, that in IFB churches who hold such views, women are lorded over by misogynistic men who think God has given them the right, duty, and responsibility to lord over the fairer sex?

My question is whether there will be women in Hell? I wasn’t able to find any IFB preacher taking up this subject, but I did find a few words from their fellow misogynists in Islam. The Islam Question and Answer site says:

Praise be to Allah.

It was narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) that women will form the majority of the people of Hell. It was narrated from ‘Imran ibn Husayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “I looked into Paradise and I saw that the majority of its people were the poor. And I looked into Hell and I saw that the majority of its people are women.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhari, 3241; Muslim, 2737)

With regard to the reason for this, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was asked about it and he explained the reason.

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allah ibn ‘Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.” They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allah?” He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).” It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allah?” He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 1052)

It was narrated that Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) said:

“The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) went out to the musalla (prayer place) on the day of Eid al-Adha or Eid al-Fitr. He passed by the women and said, ‘O women! Give charity, for I have seen that you form the majority of the people of Hell.’ They asked, ‘Why is that, O Messenger of Allah?’  He replied, ‘You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religious commitment than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.’ The women asked, ‘O Messenger of Allah, what is deficient in our intelligence and religious commitment?’ He said, ‘Is not the testimony of two women equal to the testimony of one man?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Is it not true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her religious commitment.’”

…..

And Allah knows best.

For Fundamentalist Baptist and Muslim women alike, Hell is their religion, and Heaven is getting as far away from it as possible.

No matter what women say or do in IFB churches, they will always be considered second-class citizens; inferior to men because the Bible says that women are weaker than men and more prone to emotional silliness. Women can’t be preachers, teachers of adults, elders, deacons, or political leaders. According to some IFB preachers, women just aren’t suited for such jobs. God wants women to submit to their husbands and pastors, and busy themselves with house-cleaning, cooking, raising children, and working in the church nursery. For these women, their husbands are their bosses, and it’s their duty to submit to them as unto the Lord. Ponder that thought for a moment. How does Jesus want you to submit to him? With love, commitment, and strict obedience. In patriarchal homes there is a strict order: Jesus, pastor, husband, wife, children, and dog. Upsetting this order, according to preachers of complementarianism, brings God’s judgment. No marriage is a good one without it being perfectly aligned with God’s order for the church and home. Or so preachers say, anyway.

Some IFB women endure such treatment for the sake of their children. It is not uncommon to see such women divorce their husbands once their children are out of the house. I suspect other women take the he that endureth to the end shall be saved approach. They willingly suffer being misused and abused, believing that God will reward them in Heaven for their sacrificial obedience.

But what if Peter Ruckman and his fellow misogynists are right; that women will be turned into men once they arrive at the pearly gates? Think about that fact for a moment, ladies! Imagine spending your life putting up with shit from men, only to find out when you get to Heaven that God hates you too and plans to turn you into a thirty-three-year-old man. Isn’t God’s plan wondrous?

My advice to IFB women is this: RUN! Flee the mind-numbing, psychologically damaging preaching of IFB pastors. If need be, tell your IFB husband that he has two choices: FLEE or separation/divorce. Life is too short for women to give it all up to the wants, whims, needs, and desires of religiously motivated men. There’s no Christian Hell or Heaven awaiting, ladies, so now is the time to make for yourselves your own heaven and hell on earth; hell for the men who demean you and heaven for yourself and those value you as people.

I shall wait for God’s anointed ones to show up and object to what I have written here. The BIBLE says ___________, they will say, and in doing so they will prove, yet again, that the Bible can be used to prove almost anything; that Peter Ruckman with his belief that there will be no women in Heaven is just as credible and believable as Christians who suggest otherwise. Evangelical Christianity is, in effect, a paint-by-number board without numbers. Believers can freely use — thanks to the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God — whatever colors they want to paint their picture. How dare anyone suggest that their particular picture is not a representation of True Christianity®.

38 Comments

  1. Avatar
    Trenton

    Will these people in their self imposed ignorance get a clue about reality. There may be no women in heaven but I would rather spend an eternity in hell with the women than a bunch of brown nosing self righteous pricks and their mysogynistic god. That being said the pricks would not be here without women. Also while they complain about women being to emotional they take offense to any affront to their own masculinity.

    Now for the fun useless science facts.
    1. The default for himans is female
    2. In androgen insensitivity syndrome an xy male embryo develops a vagina because it will not respond to testosterone, however a different hormone that suppresses the developement of ovaries still works fine. In the complete version the genetic male will grow up acting and looking like a female. Where it gets interesting is the incomplete version where the baby comes out with ambiguous genitalia(or none at all).
    3. Turner syndrome where there is only on x chromosome and thats it. Of the 1% that do not end up being miscarried they develop into women.
    That does not even touch other genetic anomolies or intersex people.
    4. Lastly and most importantly, these men would not exist at all if they were not born from a woman in arguably one of the most painful processes any human can endure. Nine hours on a cross aint nothing compared to a baby coming out of a human birth canal.

    One last thing, wouldnt the marraige of Christ to his bride be a little too gay for all these homophobes if they are all turned into men first?

  2. Avatar
    ObstacleChick

    This one left me speechless for a moment. Just when I thought fundamentalists couldn’t become any weirder, I read this.

    My 1st response was going to be, “I guess I need to start practicing scratching my add like an uneducated peasant 33.5 year old guy from the Iron Age”. But who am I kidding? As an atheist, I have a one way ticket on the hell-bound express train. I am just not sure if I am going to Christian hell or Muslim hell. Or maybe as an atheist I get an upgrade pass that allows me to travel between the 2? Will I have to change into my fire proof burka to go to Muslim hell or is that garment required in both? Or does it not matter because we are all sinners in hell anyway and if one of the few males in hell (since most inhabitants will be women) sees a fire-prokf boob who cares anyway?

    And where does Pastor Rickman get that Jesus was 33.5 years old? Does he literally believe Kesusxwas born Dec. 25? Does he not know the Catholic Church co-opyed a pagan holiday and turned it into a Christian one?

  3. Avatar
    maura

    my revulsion for these misogynists has no bounds. what do they think will happen to the women they love? are the women aware of this? how is it possible that ANY women consents to bear children? live with them? tolerate them? it is inconceivable.

  4. Avatar
    TLC

    So all the time these men are having sex with their wives, they’re actually having sex with a man, too? Hmmm….methinks someone is expressing some repressed desires through this preaching.

  5. Avatar
    Grammar Gramma

    “Man has imagined a heaven, and has left entirely out of it the supremest of all his delights…sexual intercourse!…His heaven is like himself: strange, interesting, astonishing, grotesque. I give you my word, it has not a single feature in it that he actually values.”

    ― Mark Twain

  6. Avatar
    deano

    This article seems to prove my point that these early christians, were actually the GALLI priests, with their cult of the transgendered eunech Attis, and worship of the great mother Cybele, a virgin mother.

    Celibate for the Kingdom, or Eunech ? MATTHEW 19:12.

    Who are these men self castrating themselves to get to heaven? How, when Jesus hasnt yet died for their salvation?

    Is this why priests at the Vatican use to CASTRATO choirboys and refuse women into their heirarchy?

    • Avatar
      Bruce Gerencser

      You are reading your personal beliefs into my post. I definitely did not say what you are implying.

      It would be helpful if you engaged with what I actually wrote instead of every comment being about Catholicism and this or that conspiracy theory.

    • Avatar
      GeoffT

      Deano said

      “Is this why priests at the Vatican use to CASTRATO choirboys and refuse women into their heirarchy?”

      No, not at all. Choir boys generally have been castrated throughout history so as to maintain their treble voices, though the Vatican did rather turn it into an industrial level operation. As for women, the Catholic Church has a very ambivalent view, on the one hand they revere Mary, at times seemingly more even than Jesus, but no way will they entertain the idea of women holding any form of authority, and certainly not ministry.

      The Galli priests were a Roman cult that had nothing whatever to do with modern Christianity.

  7. Avatar
    Dale

    Bruce (may Allah be pleased with him), I have never ever ever ever heard of this before! Is this a common belief in the IFB?

  8. Avatar
    Child and believer of Jesus Christ!

    Satan has mixed your mind if you believe this article, laughable! Non believers minds are closed to the full truth and can and never will understand the father of truth Jesus Christ! The people dissing the lords way here are clearly lost in sin; enjoy your “happiness” and belief for all time!

    • Avatar
      Bruce Gerencser

      Are you denying what the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God says? Why not interact with the content of this post instead of hurling insults?

      If I didn’t know any better, I would think you are jealous that we are happy without God/Jesus/Bible/church.

      Weren’t you an unbeliever at one time? Yet, you say “Non believers minds are closed to the full truth and can and never will understand the father of truth Jesus Christ! ” I assume this applies only to me and other unbelievers, not you? You might want to rethink your logic, CABOJC.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Bruce Almighty

  9. Avatar
    Rick Allen

    I find it ridiculous that people of the 21st century follow ancient tribal like villagers who scribble on dead animals, and pass on from generation to generation verbal stories of what they can “remember” and all common sense is tossed out the window.

    Lets take a look at a couple to show how the 21st century “sheep” STILL follow these villagers, even when scripture states otherwise:

    A virgin birth? Human magically by the power of a deity impregnates a 21yr old host.
    Point 1: A human cannot manifest a fertilized egg solo. Yes it is cool to think about – but in reality – NOPE!
    Point 2: Did god forget how to make a human? Why use a host(Mary)?
    Point 3: What was the delay? This is a son of an entity – why the 9 month gestation period? Why all the drama?
    Why? There are two possible reason that is tossed around the web. Both are plausible: Pantera(doubtful) or victim of conjugal rape, which is more likely if you read the scripture below.

    Some other points of interest: Mary “volunteered” to go to Elizabeth. She did not need to go, and Elizabeth was doing fine without her. Afraid of Joe my “know her” again? What Joe did was a crime, so had to marry her, as on her death bed she would spill the beans.

    Lineage JC is NOT the son of God, No where does it say as such. The lineage points to Joseph most the time, or some red-herring. But never directly “son of god”

    Luke 3:23 – NOT son of god, but (supposed) son of ole’ Joe.
    Matt 1:16 – Referencing Joe again
    Romans 1:3 – “Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;” key phrase “of the flesh” that’s sex – Joe is busted! Why? Because he is the descendant of the house of David. So it is his seed.

    Another major story – popular around Xmas time. Emanuel/Jesus – hint: NOT the same person. Emanuel was a promise to King Ahz from god (via Isaiah since apparently god no longer talks to people), in the NT, JC was NEVER called Emanuel (one of 3 sons of Isaiah). More importantly, why would Isaiah make a prediction for a birth some 750yrs in the future, when King Ahz was asking for help now? Even states in the story around 60yrs from birth that Ahz city will still be standing. Read the story. Not to mention in both Isaiah and Matthew, the translation was correct but interpreted wrong – or how the church wanted to push the agenda.

    God is good phrase? NOPE
    Book of numbers: Slaughter of women and children by order of god!

    New Testament came along because after the OT, people were leaving god. Most were leaving for Wicca, and therefore born the “which hunts” to deter people from the new religion. They had to come up with something spectacular to draw people back. A virgin birth! This is why the OT and NT conflict so much.

    A funny fact that is always over looked:
    Serpent saved mankind from slavery and ignorance.Re read genesis, god wanted slaves – stupid ones, that’s why they were ordered to stay away from the “tree of knowledge”, someone else came along, very hated in the bible, thus why they were called a “serpent” (just think liberal nutjobs that call trump a snake – is he a real snake? no, just a slanderous term), Also it was NOT Lucifer as preachers love to teach. says right in genesis “beast of the field”, But even so, why punish to walk on belly when you are already on your belly unless it was one of the people from NOD( remember NOD was already around and fully populated BEFORE adama and even – who do you think Cain married and from where?) that came to foil more of gods devious slavery creations by telling them god is full of crap, you’re not going to die. God lied. No one dies – ironically though, man had to toil and women had to bear the pain of birth – but sex was still pleasurable.

    There’s my sermon – everyone pull your head out. This is the 21st century – not 1AD or 6k BC. Is everyone’s self confidence so far off that you need some make-believe entity to make you feel better? And if so, is a dead guy on a cross the way?

    • Avatar
      GeoffT

      The biggest issue about the Christmas story is the most obvious, yet fundamentally overlooked. Mary, a teenage, unmarried, girl was impregnated by a much stronger being without her consent, and possibly against her will. According to the story she appears to have taken it quite well (though it clearly caused bouts of amnesia through her life), but that is not the point. Apart from anything, she would have been branded a harlot for becoming pregnant out of wedlock (not that this is mentioned in any gospels), so God didn’t really do much in the way of favours.

      Telling this story as though there’s some sort of warm glow comes from it just goes to show how far detached from reality superstitious belief takes us.

      • Avatar
        Rick Scorpio

        I looked it is from this angle years ago, however I wanted a more definitive “who” (vis scripture). Joe was well known and respected – with clever writing in the bible, most likely joe could not wait til the wedding night for a little fun, and he was protected by the priest – as what he did was against the law, and even if Mary was stoned (as per law of Moses), she would most definitely announced the joe was the abuser. Not to mention, this just makes more sense and much more plausible than believing an alien impregnated her.(god? Seriously, If he could snap his proverbial fingers, and impregnate Mary, why could he not do that with Moses wife after the flood? He was starting over right? )

  10. Avatar
    Rick Scorpio

    Hi Bruce – love your page! OK back as you for the fun mrs-potato-head-put-a-penis-on to go to heave theory (heheh)
    According to (Galatians 3:28) there is no male and female, of course this would make the “binaries” jump for joy.
    So according to this script, there will be no males either. IMHO, this really screws up the story of genesis, as why make man and woman separate if everyone will be genderless. Yes I understand that the NT was written for an agenda driven religion, vs the OT.

    • Avatar
      Grammar Gramma

      Then I guess Mark Twain was right – there will be no sexual intercourse in heaven, nor swearing either. Tell me again why anyone would want to go there.

  11. Avatar
    Greg

    These comments are fairly ridiculous and ignorant. Let the Rawach QADASH (Holy Spirit) lead you and look beyond a fleshly my mind, there’s a few things to understand. Humans don’t exist in heaven (the kingdom), they can’t. Christ only came in human form to this world but exist as a completely different entity outside of this realm. Lastly, there are no women angels. Hence, why the angels left their first estate to know the daughters of men.

    Spot on with this post. To understand the relationship between men and women, you have to understand the relationship between Ahayah and the Rawach Qadash.

    You will be like Christ but in his heavenly form. There is no one in heaven or hell right now. And for your own souls sake his name is Yasha/Yashaya not Jesus. Esau is the end, Jacob the new beginning. So, Edom ain’t saving anybody. Blessings.

    • Avatar
      Astreja

      Greg, what’s the difference between “being led” by the Holy Spook and “being led” by Satan? None that I can see. Besides the fact that they’re both mythological characters without any referent in reality, they’re essentially just sock puppets that the evil god of the Bible uses to manipulate the thoughts, emotions and actions of mortals. So much for that “free will’ shit.

      The rest of your post is amusing, but nowhere near as entertaining as Norse mythology. (high-fives Dear, Sweet Uncle Loki)

      • Avatar
        GeoffT

        Astreja you make a very interesting point that no amount of apologetics has ever resolved to my mind. No matter how committed in belief any Christian may be, and of course there are millions of very decent ones, none can be sure whether they are following the word of God or that of Satan (this presupposes both exist, neither of which is true). The bible may just as easily have been inspired by Satan as by God, and it’s certainly true that believers pick and choose between moral imperatives, which they label as being the work of Satan when the particular injunction doesn’t comport with their personal sense of morality.

      • Avatar
        Greg

        I mean you understand good and evil right? The difference is, the “fruits of the spirit” determine which one you are lead by. It’s still a choice because you decide what you do with evil or good thoughts. You decide what your deeds will be. You decide whether you will believe in an omnipresent God or yourself. Anyone who rejects Ahayah has rejected the spirit and are blinded. They receive hardened hearts (synonymous with close minds).

        Unfortunately, you have no idea what happens to you after death. You can’t created another Earth and you can’t move mountains. It’s funny that in todays world the Bible and it’s prophecies are being fulfilled almost everyday and people still think it’s lore lol.

        Foul language/perverse mouth is a fruit of Satan so, there’s that. 501(c) and mega church speakers are full of “lust of the eyes” another fruit of Satan. You can read the entire Bible and never understand anything past basic human ideology because you aren’t led by the spirit. It’ll just be a fit of denial and ignorance.

        • Avatar
          Astreja

          Greg, the only thing “leading” us is our own decisions and actions. No supernatural boogiemen. None. Zero. I also consider life after death to be so vanishingly improbable that I don’t waste any time at all worrying about it.

          Grow the fuck up.

          • Avatar
            Greg

            You obviously misunderstood what being “lead by the spirit” means. I just established you make your own decisions did I not? Just curious do you vote? Prideful and disrespectful, another example of not having the spirit. 😁

            I’m not worrying I have peace. That’s all his words bring to me. Also, I’m not the one getting all bent out of shape and insulting people because they believe in the most high. I stand unmovable.

            “Grow the f*** up” – This is a meaningless insult with little intelligence behind it. I love you too!

          • Avatar
            Sage

            Hi Greg,

            You caught me on a good day. You should be glad.

            Your problem is you judge, pronounce a person guilty, then go on to tell them just how fucked up they are, and always have been.

            And you think this will “change people’s hearts.”

            You speak of people making decisions, implying it is their right, yet you belittle them for making a choice that does not match the choice you think is right for them. Apparently your god give people free will. Apparently you believe that is wrong and you must correct the people who freely use this choice and conclude differently than you.

            There are no prophecies being fulfilled almost every day. If we put that another way, there are almost 365 prophecies, perhaps more, fulfilled every year? 3,650 in the last ten years?? Where are all of these prophecies? There are only 1,189 verses in the Bible. Can your spirit help you see the issue here?

            Now maybe you like to use hyperbole but that’s not really useful then you are trying to argue something is factual. Or maybe you believe all that you have said, but the thing is, it is based on faith, not fact.

            Just an aside, your god says you can move mountains with your faith. Just pointing that out.

            See, the issue is that your beliefs are based on faith. It is faith because it cannot be proven. Your holy book emphasizes this constantly. Yet you want to claim they are proven.

            The reality is that your belief is no more verifiable than a belief in any other god. You just choose to make this a “reality” based on your faith.

            You are in no position to judge my past relationship with god. You make many assumptions, but you don’t know anything. To defend your belief, you attack others who have deconstructed their religious belief. Perhaps this makes you feel better, perhaps you do this because you have doubts.

            I guess the real question is this…why can’t you go hang out with your holy group and leave the rest of us alone? I have rejected your Christian god as yet another mythological being. As you said, it’s my choice, so who are you to question it? Why do you go out of your way to question and belittle people who have rejected your god?

            Maybe it is better for you to just shake the dust off your shoes and leave us to deal with the results of our decisions.

          • Avatar
            Astreja

            Greg. I misunderstood nothing. You are obviously up to your neck in mythological detritus, spewing unsupported assertions and calling total strangers “blinded.” You represent something that I never, ever want to become.

            Prideful and disrespectful? Well, I’m not the one invading believers’ websites.

            And lose the “too” in “I love you too,” you pretentious ass. You are not loved by me, and the probability of that changing approaches zero, so just consider yourself extremely fortunate that I don’t actually hate you or wish you physical harm.

          • Avatar
            Greg

            Got it Bruce! Makes complete sense lol. Didn’t realize what kind of people were here. I apologize for my intrusion.

            Matthew 7:6​ Give not that which is Qadash unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

            Oops

  12. Avatar
    Karuna Gal

    It’s interesting to me that Greg uses Hebrew terms in his posts, when the equivalent English words would work just as well. One long time Baptist church in my town is now named “Kessid.” Evangelical/Baptist churches are expropriating Hebrew terminology. Why? Maybe you can address this sometime, Bruce. I don’t get it. Is it marketing? Or are they showing solidarity with Israel, or hiding their own spiritual bankruptcy by aping Jewish culture?

  13. Avatar
    Rick Scorpio

    o bummer on the block hahah

    I was gonna ask, why would someone like him in the 21st century follow the beliefs of a bunch of villagers that don’t even have a grasp on science to explain away much of what they saw in those days. I am sure the “bible” would have been written much differently. Especially if it was a “craft” Jacob was on, or a possible Advance community that adam (adamu?) was created and quite possibly eve was cloned (from adam), but even this is not true, because if the “bone” from adam created eve, and the theory that she was cloned, eve would have been male.

    Regardless. This is what most religious followers didn’t get. Some nomads whip up a deity to explain away that which they didn’t understand and now in the 21st century, modern society still follow it – ignoring all scientific facts to the contrary. Example I learned very young that heaven is not in the sky (we fly planes and send satellites up) when I inquired about that they told me that it is a “state of mind”. They had no answer when I asked about the “crafts” in paintings or the fact that everyone was in clouds.

    Oh well.

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Bruce Gerencser