Last week, an Evangelical man named Danny Kluver left an innocuous comment on one of my posts. Afterward, he contacted my wife on Facebook. Evidently, Kluver thought doing so was appropriate. Perhaps he thought his God was directing him to contact Polly. Regardless, she is off-limits. Want to set me straight? Want to share what God has laid upon your heart? Want to try to reclaim me for Jesus? Then contact me directly.
What follows is Kluver’s message. My response is indented and italicized.
If we are truly born again we cannot quit the church because we are the church. You can walk away from the lord and be miserable if you are truly born again just as a non believer that thinks they are born again and can’t understand why they are miserable.
I was a born again Christian (as if there is any other) for most of my adult life. I pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. I was in every way a follower of Jesus Christ. Yet, thirteen years ago, I divorced Jesus and publicly declared I was an atheist. According to Kluver, it impossible for a Christian to leave the faith — once saved, always saved. No matter what I say, no matter how I live my life, I am still a Christian.
Kluver believes that I surely must be “miserable.” Evidently, one cannot have a happy, satisfying life without Jesus. Ponder this thought for a moment. According to Kluver’s theology, the vast majority of the human race is miserable. Only those who believe as Kluver does are happy.
I have been where Bruce is or was and Hebrews twelve verses seven and on confirms the truth about someone.
Kluver doesn’t know me, so how could he possibly know where I am or where I was?
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Previously, Kluver said that I was still a Christian, but now he says that the measure of true faith is chastisement by God. In other words, Kluver can’t make up his mind whether I am a Christian. Is God chastising me? If so, that means I am a Christian. How could Kluver possibly know whether God is whipping me? Perhaps my difficulties and suffering are the results of “life.” Shit happens. No God needed.
God has answered every one of my prayers over the last twenty five years and you and your family have been my first and foremost prayers!
Bullshit.
Praying for others is my spiritual gift and I wasn’t sure what it was until I asked God to confirm it. We all have these gifts if we are born again and I believe one of yours is your heart for children.
More bullshit. According to Kluver, Polly and I have spiritual gifts, one of which is a “heart for children” (whatever the hell that means).
Kluver seems to have a hard time “discerning” whether I am a born-again Christian. He tells me “once saved always saved,” and then he tells me that “chastisement” is the measure by which one determines whether he is a Christian. And here he tells me that that having “spiritual gifts” is a sign of the new birth. So many salvation boxes to check. What’s next, circumcision?
take care and god bless you and your family!
*sigh*
What stood out most to me was that Kluver showed no interest in Polly’s spiritual welfare (outside of recognizing the obvious: she loves children). She was just a means to an end. You see, I am the big prize here, not Polly. She is just a garden variety unbeliever, hardly worth Kluver’s effort. No big reward in Heaven for reclaiming a lowly ex-preacher’s wife.
Polly’s thoughts on Kluver? Who the fuck is this guy? 🙂 Yes, the mild-mannered, reserved Polly Gerencser can be provoked to use the F word. Kluver should immediately fall on his knees and repent. His boorish behavior caused Polly to sin. And since she is still a born-again Christian, Kluver, the great prayer warrior he is, caused a weaker sister to stumble. Either that or Polly has little tolerance for Christian assholes these days. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Yet another contradiction… if you leave God you are apparently chastised by God for no longer worshipping him … but wait … when you are actively worshipping God then Satan attacks you and if you stop actively worshipping God then Satan leaves you alone.
So the fundamental Christian can’t work it out … if you’re happy and you’re not serving God then it’s cause the adversary is leaving you alone, but if something bad happens to you it’s because God is punishing you. May-bee it’s just that bad stuff happens in everyone’s life at some point?
Fundamental Christianity is psychologically harmful because no matter what you are doing, vigorously serving God, you expect to be punished, not serving God or not serving God in the right way? Expect to be punished. Why not lighten up and stop giving yourself a hard time, and stop putting your own (actual miserable internal possibly external thoughts/feelings/life) on youself and others and be free from this damaging circle, Danny and other’s like you?
That dude leaving a comment on Polly’s timeline was totally inappropriate. Once, I had a strange guy make some type of “You need to be saved” blah blah on one of my public posts. I don’t post much about religion, but I’m obviously not any kind of conservative Christian. I blocked said dude, and then he immediately tried to get me through what appeared to be his wife’s profile, which I also blocked. People are nuts.
‘God answered every one of my prayers over 25yrs.’ Roger. what are you on? Seriously, you believe that? Know what? I prayed for 50yrs before realising I was shouting at the ceiling, talking to myself. I prayed fervently for an end to war and starvation, for sick children not to die etc etc. I’d be praying my socks off right now if I was still fundy, for an end to Covid. And answers? Well obviously the answers to all of those was a resounding ‘No.’ And ‘god moves in mysterious ways’ doesn’t hack….Why would I return to that ”all-loving” god who acts so cruelly and callously to the prayers of his devoted followers and is conspicuous by his total absence in the suffering world it’s claimed he loves so much?
So God has answered every one of this guy’s prayers? At first I was going to request a list of noteworthy answered prayers. Then I was going to challenge him to pray for the healing of every cancer patient in his local hospital. But then I realized he was playing the classic game of sometimes the answer is no. In other words if he prays for a sunny day for his church picnic and it is sunny the answer is yes but if he prays for an amputated limb to regrow the answer is no. Either way his prayer is answered. Brilliant.
“God has answered every one of my prayers over the last twenty five years and you and your family have been my first and foremost prayers!”
so, what was this ass praying for? Evidently not for kids not to starve or amputees to get their limbs back.
such a liar for Christ.
I guess this guy didn’t really put God to the test then if all his prayers were answered – things like your garden variety key finding, parking spot searching, that spring will come soon, etc. I guess he’s extremely fortunate that he or his loved ones never had cancer or financial instability or the like. Bless him.
I hope Polly blocked this guy. She doesn’t need that kind of harassment.
Hello, Bruce. I hope you and Polly are free to go on lots of vacations this year😀. As for Danny, his contacting your wife, in some ways wasn’t as malevolent as most postings from Evangelical types. I’ll give him that. But, his claim that God has always answered his prayers doesn’t impress. Why is THIS ?? I can tell you, it’s because most Evangelicals are Neoliberals, for one. And lack genuine compassion for another, especially the poor or homeless. And, the clincher here– what about praying for the kids and babies being systematically abused by parent in the churches ? I NEVER hear this being practiced, not ever ! The day you start doing this,Danny– is the day your statement will hav merit. Pray for, and actively rescue those children being abused. Then you’ll be taken seriously . Bear in mind that it’s because of the conditions I mentioned above, that so many people have left the churches. They may not leave Jesus and the faith, but they’re really mad at the church !!( Barna .polls)
“Evangelical Man Is Unsurprisingly Bad At Understandinf Boundaries And Appropriate Behavior: Film at Eleven”…
The irony is that fundie preachers tell us that women lead men to sin. (As a late-middle-aged trans woman, it’s interesting to know that I have such power!) So, I’m contacting Polly, is this Kluver dude expressing a belief that she—a woman (oh, my!)—can lead poor Bruce back into the arms of Jeez-us?