Yesterday, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Ansen (who read all of three posts):
Hi dear brother. My name is Ansen. I’m nothing important. I’ve been under spiritual attack by alot of evil in the world. I’ve been given a gift by God to see a small glimpse of spiritual things.
I was reading your blog and I was inspired [he read one of my posts on street preaching] until I read the part of you becoming an atheist.
I thought to myself that a man who pastored churches for 25 years gives all of that up for worldly pleasures. I thought this is insane.
You being a pastor for 25 years should have understood that we are at war with principalities and powers.
Dear brother. The Lord Jesus Christ is coming back soon.
I can’t impart the things I’ve seen to be given to you. I can’t physically let you see the things I can see because I don’t know how.
In any case. I wouldn’t want you to experience the pain that I have.
But I can tell you that Jesus is definitely real. There is indeed a devil that is trying to take us away from God.
I want you to do a spiritual test with yourself.
Ask yourself what would happen if you tried to believe in Jesus again?
Then try and attempt to believe in Jesus.
If you can’t bring yourself to believing in Jesus it’s because something Evil(The Antichrist) is trying to stop you.
Spend at least 5 minutes trying to believe in Jesus.
If you’ve found difficulty doing it. Then you need to keep doing it.
There is something trying to stop you Bruce.
Carolyn, my esteemed editor and friend, sent Ansen the following response:
Mr. Hatcher,
I write on behalf of Bruce Gerencser. I sometimes answer his emails when he is behind on them. That said . . .
Regarding your importance or lack thereof, it is your god who makes you feel unimportant, like a worm, like a sin-filled creature. Bruce is no longer having any of that.
I wonder how the evil in the world attacks you. I don’t think Bruce believes in the personification of evil. That is, people are evil, but there is no evil force outside of people that can attack other people. Bruce doesn’t believe in gods – not yours, not anyone else’s – so he has no belief in your “gift” or your “small glimpse of spiritual things”; especially where they involve Bruce himself.
Bruce did not give up his faith for “worldly pleasures.” Indeed, about the only “worldly pleasure” he indulges in is occasional strong spirits. He gave up his faith because he sought a church where the congregants served Jesus, and could find no such church after attending more than 100 churches of various denominations. Discouraged, he began to read the bible again (for the 5th or 6th time, at least) and saw the multiple gods of Genesis, the two separate creation stories, the fallacy of Adam and Eve being the first people on earth (where did Cain’s wife come from? Cain “builded a city” – who populated the city?). He saw the malignancy of a god who caused his people to destroy armies, then kill the men and take the women as their own. He saw the dastardliness of a god who caused men, women, innocent children and even unborn babies to be drowned in his flood. The logistics of Noah taking two of every living creature aboard a huge boat are insurmountable, and there is no physical historical evidence for such a great flood.
He continued into the new testament, and saw the conflicting narratives of the gospels regarding the birth of Jesus. He realized that he could no longer believe in a virgin birth, a man who walked on water, walked through walls, or who died and came back to life.
I am not sure who would be at war with “principalities and powers.” Bruce is not your dear brother.
The promise of the return of someone named Jesus has been passed on for more than 2,000 years. It will go on as an empty promise until such time as Christianity dies out.
Bruce has no belief in your dreams, visions, or hallucinations, so it does not matter that you cannot “impart the things” you’ve seen to be given to him.
Bruce has experienced far greater pain than have you. Bruce lives with fibromyalgia, raging osteoarthritis, gastroparesis, and peripheral neuropathy, the combination of which makes him hurt from the crown of his head to the bottom of his feet. He has no pain-free days, just manageable-pain days. Bruce would not want you or anyone else to experience the pain he has. And your pain is . . . what??
Bruce can no more believe in Jesus than he can believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, leprechauns, or any of the myriad other mythical creatures out there in the world. When you can show some hard, tangible evidence of the existence of a god, then Bruce might be willing to expend some effort examining the evidence to determine whether he believes the evidence is real. Only then would he consider belief in such a god. Until that time, Jesus is just a man who may or may not have lived a long time ago, but is not alive today and is not worthy of worship.
Bruce put himself through spiritual testing every day as he began to lose his faith. He did not want to lose his faith, but the more he examined, the more he realized he could not believe. There is no point in any such spiritual test at this point.
Now fuck off.
Carolyn Patrick, editor for Bruce Gerencser
Well said, Carolyn, well said. Except that “now fuck off” line. I would never say such a thing to a proselytizing Evangelical Christian. 🙂 Well . . . actually I would. You see, I have a statement on my contact page that specifically asks Evangelicals to NOT send me emails such as the one Ansen sent me. Much like Fake Dr. David Tee, Father John, and countless other Evangelical zealots, Ansen has no regard for what I want nor respect for me as a person. In his mind, all that matters is getting a word in for Jesus. That’s why I do not respond kindly to such people. Sometimes, a “fuck off” is warranted. Last week, after an onslaught of emails from the Fake Dr., I emailed him and said:
And I suggest you take a 12 inch dildo and shove it up your ass. I’m sure there’s one in your nightstand. Now fuck off you piece of shit.
After several more back and forths, I said:
I’m not being funny. You are a despicable human being. Fundamentalism has so rotted your mind that you are unable to be a decent person. You are a bully who loves to gaslight people. Not just my opinion either, asshole. Ask around. You will find that my opinion of you is held by many. You have spent years attacking people, getting banned at numerous sites, yet you accept no responsibility for your vile behavior.
You need professional help, David.
I always politely respond to Evangelicals who have sincere, thoughtful questions about my story or something I have written. However, when Evangelicals show no regard for me as a person and are only interested in advancing their agenda, I am going to let them know what I think about their boorish behavior. When necessary, I am quite happy to give proselytizing Evangelicals the Bruce Gerencser Treatment®.
— Bruce pauses for five minutes to try to [savingly] believe in Jesus —
Nope, it didn’t work . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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standing ovation for Carolyn’s reply
Damn, it’s hard to clap and laugh at the same time!
Amen! Carolyn channeling Bruce is a pleasure to read.
Woah! Carol! You go, girl!
Carol: “Bruce can no more believe in Jesus than he can believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, leprechauns, or any of the myriad other mythical creatures out there in the world.”
Just an FYI. For myself, personally, I also like to use the example about elves. Seriously, did you know that many people in Iceland believe that elves (“Huldufólk”) really exits?
That said… back to the topic on hand….
Woah! Carol! You go, girl!
Carol–That response is epic. And it contains one of the single most important sentences I’ve read in a while: “He did not want to lose his faith, but the more he examined, the more he realized he could not believe.” Every sincere, committed atheist–indeed, everyone I’ve ever known who had to give up something that was part of their identity and purpose, can say something similar: We did everything we could. We tried to hold on. But we couldn’t; there simply was no longer any way to justify or sustain it.
(Although I am talking about my journey from faith to atheism, I could also say the same for my gender and sexual identity: I held onto my life and identity as a cisgender heterosexual male until I couldn’t)
Very few people gave more of their lives to something they no longer believe than Bruce did. Nobody has any business telling him he didn’t try enough or didn’t do it right. Anyone who’s arrogant enough to tell him to look past his own suffering–which, by the way, he has, throughout his life, really deserves to be told to go fuck off.
‘…We did everything we could. We tried to hold on. But we couldn’t; there simply was no longer any way to justify or sustain it….’ This was exactly my experience too, after being fundy for many years and now having doubts 6-8yrs ago. I’m so grateful to have found this blog around then and Neil Carter’s which saved my sanity. A crystallising moment for me was when Neil wrote that we didn’t deconvert cos we were the lukewarm x-tians that the bible warns against – as some arrogant fundy-know-alls told us. We jesused our socks off 24/7 and tried to hold on to our faith but with mounting horror and extreme reluctance, realised it was all a fiction. (Paraphrased from my memory). And to re-quote Bruce, we didn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. We looked into that water and found it very murky indeed and then saw that there never was a baby there in the first place.
And I want to add my congratulations to the brilliant Carolyn’s take-down.
As one who often says “fuck off” to these fundie trolls, well done Carolyn! And Bruce, your fuck off imagery to fake dr was awesome. Of course, he’ll just use that to whine about how mean you are.
I don’t identify as atheist, as most of you know. But I feel comfortable with atheists. First, I followed Bruce and his blog helped me to see my beliefs weren’t really rooted in Christianity, anyway. I have a level of belief that is: I hope universalism is true. Otherwise, I don’t care about people’s religious beliefs, but how they treat their fellow man. And I love being around people who believe in rationality and science.
Where I’m going with this is because I have loved ones who identify as atheist, which is why I decided to follow atheist blogs. And I discovered people who wanted the truth, who wanted to know things, and who believed in proof. There isn’t a sincere atheist who can go back to believing in a god, as they are convinced all the way to the bone there is either no god, or no way to prove an invisible god. So when Christians beg you to believe, it’s an insult. They think they are being kind but really, they are presumptuous assholes. (At least the fundie ones are. I know some loving Christians and guess what? They don’t proselytize me.)
Thus is a test comment
I’m applauding Carolyn’s response, so it’s hard to type.
Also, “Hi dear brother. My name is Ansen. I’m nothing important.”
He could have stopped right there.
Amimental – You are soooo right! 😄
Ah, that was epic! Carolyn, take a bow, you legend!
“I thought to myself that a man who pastored churches for 25 years gives all of that up for worldly pleasures.”
Makes me laugh to hear woo-sufferers disdain worldly pleasures, as if, by magic, they do such a thing themselves. This particular coo-coo is having a jolly old pleasuring time cooing religio-clichés in Bruce’s direction. He’s positively gleeful in his spiritual insights, his utterly shallow foray into criticism. As he pleasures himself at others’ expense, he imagines he is involved in the great commission.
They keep coming here and pleasuring themselves in public. Practice some restraint, will you? Please please don’t do this ‘out loud’ but follow the teachings and closet yourselves to ‘prey’.
Oddly, such displays as this leave one feeling that Carolyn’s ‘fuck off’ is pure Shakespeare!
these folks are just plain stupid. and evidently their god is just as stupid if it accepts people who are believe “just in case”.
Arsenal makes Bruce sound like he gave up pastoring to become some combination of Hugh Hefner and Tony Soprano……if that’s true, Bruce has been holding out on his storytelling….
Carolyn, great response.
😂😂😂😂
Props to Carolyn and her very well written fuck off to Ansen.🥂🍾🥂
Wow, all this time I’ve been reading your blog and I’m only now finding out you are deep into “worldly pleasures”! I wish you had confided in me years ago so I could have tasted these “worldly pleasures”!
Why, just today I surfed the Internet, watched TV, ate at a Chinese restaurant, and bought groceries. Such a worldly life I live. 😂😂
Hah! There you are, following The Atheist Agenda! Which looks a whole lot like The Homosexual Agenda, the Humanist Agenda, and maybe even The Christian Agenda (if you leave out the churchy part).
Ansen Hatcher writes like a child and does need to grow up. Bottom line, is if a person wants to believe in Jesus,they will. If not, they won’t and can’t be made to, or cajoled into that. Ansen, surely by now, you are old enough to know people only bother with beliefs when they’re ready to. Stop with the nagging,will you ??