The Biblical miracles that Jesus and his disciples did in the first century are repeated by true believers throughout history. Every century has had observable evidence proving the Bible true. The evolutionary experiments do not have that track record.
They are lucky to have 150+ years of experiments and they still have people who disagree with how the mechanisms of evolution operate. There is no such division with the observable evidence that has taken place in support of the Bible.
Every true Christian knows exactly how those miracles were done and they were witnessed by both unbelievers and believers. We are not talking about the fake faith healers. We are talking about the true miracle workers who do not make a show of it or use it to get rich.
They do it all the time and it is witnessed by whoever wants to see it. The Christian has observable evidence for the existence of God, Jesus, and creation. The question is will they believe it or not?
You see, it is not really about observable evidence but about the unbeliever hiding from the truth. There is more than enough observable evidence to show the Bible is true. It boils down to the fact that unbelievers do not want to humble themselves and be servants of God.
They like their lives as they are and do not want to change. That is the power of deception in their lives. Ex-Christians can whine and moan all they want about Christ not being real but they are just trying to convince themselves that they did not throw their lives away for nothing.
The Bible should be enough evidence for everyone as it fits the dictionary definition of the term ‘evidence’ it furnishes proof of creation, why we are here, and more. Then the true followers of Jesus furnish even more proof through their changed lives, their healing of others, and more.
— Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology, Observable Evidence, November 7, 2022
It’s interesting that Mr Tee provides not one example of these supposed miracles that he witnesses daily (the sun rising doesn’t count, incidentally). Nor is he able to. As for people disagreeing about the mechanisms of evolution? Of course they do, it’s a complicated subject that Tee will never, ever, have the intellect to comprehend, but there’s no disagreement as to the factual nature of evolution, nor its foundations. The irony is that being an apologist is a way of ensuring you disagree with almost everyone, as no two apologists ever seem to agree. Then again, apologetics only exists because the underlying basis for religion is so lacking in reason and in logic.
The very existence of life in a universe so hostile to it defies reason and logic and by extension acts as evidence of design by many believers. The very fabric of reality breaks down when you start getting into the subatomic world of quantum physics and discover that energy can materialize into reality as matter out of thin air; Time and space can be manipulated by intense gravitational forces. If logic and reason is the foundation of atheism then make sure you don’t look at reality any closer than Isaac Newton did because it all melts away when you look inside the atom.
You posted four comments after I wrote:
“I will give you one more opportunity to comment. One comment, say whatever it is you think God wants you to say. After that, I will not approve and further comments from you. One comment, Peter. Just one.”
You do understand what “one” means, right?
Peter, there is a brilliant site here (http://creationtheory.org/Probability/Page03.xhtml) that offers a demonstration of the principle of probability. It explains how the structures of the universe can form and organise, without a guiding hand. It’s the pity the site’s author isn’t so active online anymore, as I think you’d like him Bruce.
He’s taken to not even naming us directly, and not even doing the curtesy of a direct link. I guess he’s sour that we use his real name, rather than participating in his facade.
I see he wrote another post about me. Used BG and didn’t link to this blog. Such behavior, in my opinion, is unethical. When I use someone’s work, I always give proper attribution. Thiessen will likely say the Bible doesn’t say anything about attribution, so he’s not obligated to do so.
That is a frequent fundamentalist response. I suppose they don’t want people to actually read the other side. As you say, one should always let people know where they can find the writing that one is criticizing when it is easy to do so.
And if it happens to be the case that you refuse to own your own past and authorities are seeking you, you can run to another country and further make-believe that God told you to do it because Christians are persecuted by Satanic unbelievers! Some of these persecutors are not only big humans but they are big atheists as well and so if it wasn’t for them you would probably not have to have run to another country. All this is obvious and proved by the Bible. It is very very simple and if you don’t see it, well, that proves you are not worthy.
Mr. Tee clas there is proof but then offers none. I am sure if I asked him he would tell me I can’t have the proof because I am deluded by Satan. It’s sad that he wastes so much time trying to promote mythology.
Yep. Satan influenced unbelievers can’t know the truth about anything. The indwelling of the Spirit and the Bible (as interpreted by Thiessen) are prerequisites for understanding “truth.”
While the universe is full of miracles and is a bit miraculous on it’s own, Biblical miracles that prove God and Jesus, aren’t particularly impressive. The Bible claims Jesus raised the dead (!), and other ailments on par with curing an amputee (blindness, leprosy, etc.), yet we don’t see this. If you’re an amputee, all the king’s horses, and all the king’s men can’t put you together again. Certain ailments cure themselves, some exhibit spontaneous remission, these are the only “miracles” in God’s repertoire. Dr. T would no doubt question why I insist on such extraordinary evidence, simple–extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I agree ❤️❤️
2 billion followers, Two thousand years after he died? I’d say that’s pretty extraordinary. ☺️
Hindus and Muslims can say the same. There are many reasons why people congregate around a person, a belief, or a cult. Why are there so many Christians today? Tribal/family/cultural influence and geography. Truth is not a required component. Christianity is easily explained from an anthropological, sociological, and geographical perspective. Besides, are you saying that someone is a Christian just because they say they are?
2 billion or any plurality believing something is not even evidence, nor is it particularly extraordinary. This isn’t even a majority of the 8 billion in the world. This reminds me of a criticism of the 4th commandment to “honor your parents”. Copulation and procreation are not particularly good indicators of an venerable person.
Let me add that while 2 billion is a lofty sum of people, much more impressive is the ubiquity of science. While cultures and religions vary across the world, the same science is done in New York, New Delhi, Moscow, Beijing, and Tokyo. Of course this isn’t extraordinary evidence that science came down from on high, in fact its origins begin in the Aegean archipelago where it is difficult for a strong man to exert power and free thought could prosper.
Your claim about “same science” is debatable… politics and money and power have corrupted most places of science. Dissenters of the accepted narrative are ostracized, even when their arguments are rock-solid truth.
I am in drought-ridden California. I woke this morning to the sound of rain on the roof, and the downspouts are still singing. There are water drops on my window. I am experiencing a miracle just sitting at my computer. I am absolutely certain that no deity was responsible for this experience, because there is zero evidence for that assertion. Serious rain, in November, in my area is still an [expletive] miracle.
Thiessen babbles on about evidence, but clearly slept through the classes that explained what scientific evidence actually is. He also doesn’t seem to understand that the Bible is a CLAIM. (Okay, a lot of claims.) The claim can’t also be evidence. Rational thinking simply doesn’t work that way.
Bruce and Ben, you are my heroes.
Thiessen went to an unaccredited Fundamentalist Bible college, as did I. He has no credible training in archeology —- as his post (and others) clearly shows. Sadly, Thiessen doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. 😢😢
I love how Christians say that Biblical miracles are happening today. I have a friend who told me she either saw a miracle, or a demonic happening. (I forget because both go in the “supernatural things that could never happen” file in my brain.) I have never, ever seen anyone go into a hospital and heal all the sick and injured. That would be pretty convincing…right? Let religious Trump people go into hospital and heal the sick, and feed the poor, and I’ll sing hallelujah. Ahhahahaha.
My church has served hot meals to poor and homeless people of all races and religions at our local city-center shelter for years. How many hallelujahs are you willing to sing?
Please provide a copy of your church’s budget. I would love to see how much money your church spends on ministering to the least of these compared to their overall expenditures. Fifteen years I have been asking this question. I have yet to have a church/pastor provide its budget. Why? Because the amount of money they spend on ministering to the least of these is a pittance compared to what they spend on “important” stuff. Maybe your church is different, Peter, but I doubt it.
We don’t minister to them. We just serve them hot meals; no questions asked. What are saying? Since we can afford to do this it doesn’t count???
Your comment “My church has served hot meals to poor and homeless people of all races and religions at our local city-center shelter for years. How many hallelujahs are you willing to sing?” suggested you and your church were doing something special or extraordinary. Neither is true, as a quick look at your church’s budget will show.
As I related in a guest post I wrote last year, I went to Lourdes during the course of a bike trip from France into Spain and back. Although my faith was all but gone by that time, I paused, “just in case” someone took of the waters, tossed his or her crutches aside and skipped away, singing praises to the Lord. Of course, nothing like that happened. Oh well.
I am no scientist, but I think that theories like those of evolution and atomic structure are built, not from single pieces of empirical evidence, but from a number of such pieces linked by quantifiable (or at least verifiable) observations. The problem with asserting that the Bible is the Word of God or the Absolute Truth or whatever they want to call it is not only that their god is undetectable (unlike fossil fragments and other artifacts) but that such links don’t exist between that god and what they claim to be his word–which contradicts itself in all sorts of ways.
🤣🤣🤣 couldn’t stop laughing. This one is truly classic.
Thanks for the chuckle Bruce.
Well that made even less sense than usual. WTF are these “experiments” he’s talking about? Our understanding of geological time does not relate to “experiments.”
Tee of ALL people !! He’s really not qualified to talk about miracles. I have no problem with miracles happening, though they don’t occur just because someone needs them. It’s arbitrary, at best. As one radio personality once said, ” Miracles are called miracles, because they rarely happen.” One of the few honest explanation on the subject that I ever heard. This was emphasized regarding the ” blab and grab,” types who promise healings and other benefits if people send money to their shows. Lots of people got taken that way. I lost interest in the idea of miracles, because while asking God for help for certain things,no help came. It’s a system outside of human control or logic. I don’t even like to ponder that stuff. Too arbitrary and conditional for my liking. That means that even if you believe such things can or will be done, you have no say. My own experience is, yes, they do happen, but not enough. Even worse is when some jerk like Tee carps about that subject, lol.
This was a masterclass in how to properly christian (according to Derrick), assert claims as if there facts and pretend anything you don’t agree with doesn’t exist. I might actually start believing in God again if people like Derrick(and victor justice and reviled fires) shut up and minded their own business🤣. That truly would be a biblical miracle I could get behind.
That is one poorly written bit of flotsam. If I handed that in to a professor it surely would have been a fail or handed back with instructions to redo the assignment. How many miracles has the high, holy and mighty Thiessen done?
The thing about the “miracle” discussion is that believers move the goalposts far more than they do in normal apologetics. They redefine that every time you get close getting to name a define the word. And it doesn’t help their side that immoral fraud “Dr. Tee” is contributing to the discussion.
unsurprisingly, these christians can’t do miracles despite the promises in their bible. oh dear, what’s the problem: their bible lies and/or they lie.
“unsurprisingly, these christians can’t do miracles despite the promises in their bible. oh dear, what’s the problem: their bible lies and/or they lie.”
Let’s change the word “Christians” to “jews” and see what happens. Just an experiment.
“unsurprisingly, these jews can’t do miracles despite the promises in their Torah, oh dear, what’s the problem: their Torah lies and/or they lie.
Dang! You sound like a bigot.
Bye, Peter. I am done with your repeated accusation that we are bigots. No one is being a bigot. I explained to you the purpose of this blog. Evidently, you chose to ignore what I said.
I will give you one more opportunity to comment. One comment, say whatever it is you think God wants you to say. After that, I will not approve and further comments from you. One comment, Peter. Just one.
Bruce
The torah doesn’t promise that Jews can do miracles. Try again dear. Your need to make false claims caused you be ever so wrong.
The following bible verses are what your bible has your god/jesus promising to true believers. Funny how not one of you can do this. So what’s the problem, Peter?
“22 Jesus answered them, ‘Have[b] faith in God. 23 Truly I tell you, if you say to this mountain, “Be taken up and thrown into the sea”, and if you do not doubt in your heart, but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you. 24 So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received[c] it, and it will be yours.” – Mark 11
“Go into all the world and proclaim the good news[d] to the whole creation. 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved; but the one who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes in their hands,[e] and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.’” Mark 16
“7 ‘Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? 10 Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!” Matthew 7
“1 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then believe me because of the works themselves. 12 Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If in my name you ask me[e] for anything, I will do it.” John 14
“ 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. “ John 15
“13 Are any among you suffering? They should pray. Are any cheerful? They should sing songs of praise. 14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up; and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human being like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the earth yielded its harvest.” James 5
Hi! Former atheist here. Converted to Christianity 19 years ago. I sat in my college astronomy classes waiting for the professor to explain to me how matter, existing randomly, interacted with natural laws, acting randomly, in a universe ruled by entropy to kickstart the evolutionary process which led to the existence of intelligent, self-aware, conscious living organisms. No such answer came. There is a limit to what matter can do on its own without intelligent manipulation. A skyscraper cannot exist without a blueprint; a human cannot exist without DNA. Theories abound but the fact remains that all living things come from other living things. No scientist has ever been able to duplicate the moment non-living matter formed the simple blue-green algae capable of adapting to its environment and beginning the miraculous process of evolution. I don’t seek to convert anyone to my beliefs. Faith, or lack therof, is highly personal. But not all of us are knuckle dragging, Bible thumping evangelicals warning people to turn or burn.
Peter, I don’t see physics, chemistry or biology to be “random” – if anything, they’re anti-random. In my opinion, our universe is merely one possible way that the subatomic building blocks of matter fit together.
What does need an explanation is the claim that there’s an eternal sentient being just sitting there doing things. No explanation as to its composition or its origins, just the feeble excuse “God was always there.” What an utter cop-out that is.
Explain the existence of your god first, before dissing science. All you’ve got so far is an argument from incredulity and a massive unsupported assertion that explains bugger-all.
Peter, I don’t accept your claim that you were once an atheist. Lee Strobel claims he was once an atheist because he thinks it gives him more credibility as an apologist (a poor one), but it’s clear that, at best, it was a matter to which he gave little thought. It’s clear that you fall into the same camp. Your argument is the argument from incredulity. You can’t understand how everything that exists could be natural in origin, so you take the lazy way out and invent a god. Trouble is, you have then to explain the existence of this even more puzzling phenomenon (and clever semantic gymnastics doesn’t help, as Aquinas showed). You could be honest and just admit that you don’t know, though it’s clear daily that science is progressing in finding answers in a way that religious belief is unable to do. You say that there are limits to what nature can do without intelligent guidance. How do you know? You are just making an assumption. Nature can produce waterfalls, stalagmites and stalactites, majestic rock formations, all without guidance. Abiogenesis has been studied for a long time and we think that we do understand the natural processes whereby organic carbon compounds formed from non organic.
By all means you are entitled to your beliefs, but don’t try and attach a facade of reasonableness that is in no way warranted.
Pete seems to be the typical liar for christ. I can be quite sure he never went to college or attended an astronomy class. Alas, he has done a lovely job of showing he is exactly a “knuckle dragging, Bible thumping evangelicals warning people to turn or burn”
And Daddy Bruce won’t let me post in his echo chamber anymore. He’s a coward too.
If this seems like an “echo chamber,” it’s because many of us have had similar experiences with churches and came to our beliefs or non-beliefs through empirical evidence, study and reason.
If a bunch of scientists with similar backgrounds agree on a principle or theory, is that an “echo chamber?”
“Pete seems to be the typical liar for christ. I can be quite sure he never went to college or attended an astronomy class. Alas, he has done a lovely job of showing he is exactly a “knuckle dragging, Bible thumping evangelicals warning people to turn or burn”
I thought you didn’t allow these kinds of personal attacks in your blog Bruce. Any warnings for this person? Didn’t think so.
I give regular readers space. You, Peter, started with:
“Here’s a challenge atheists. Go back and edit your posts. All you have to do is change the word “Bible” to “Koran” or “Torah”. Go ahead and aim your ignorance, bigotry and hatred toward Jews and Muslims. Let’s see it.”
And then:
“Let’s change the word “Christians” to “jews” and see what happens. Just an experiment.
‘unsurprisingly, these jews can’t do miracles despite the promises in their Torah, oh dear, what’s the problem: their Torah lies and/or they lie.’
Dang! You sound like a bigot.”
You have proven yourself to be yet another insufferable, name-calling Christian. And it is for that reason you are not permitted to comment on this site.
I gave you an opportunity to leave one last comment. You squandered it. I told you that I would not approve any further comments from you, yet you have ignored me and left numerous comments.
Why is it so hard for Evangelicals to play well with others.
Well one thing is crystal clear Bruce. The people who post on this site are good at playing with themselves. 🤣 Enjoy your echo chamber.
Says a guy called 🍆🍆🍆 Peter 🍆🍆🍆
Your Christianity is showing.
What a Christ-like comment, Peter. Way to represent your “religion of peace”.
https://science.nasa.gov is one of many resources one could research to see the ongoing strides science is making to discover the beginnings of the universe. (I do not know how to hyperlink in this format, but at least I am woman enough to admit it(snark intended for DT) Science is ever-evolving and in search of answers to life’s questions. Science isn’t afraid to say it was wrong or there could be more than one explanation, whereas your religion erroneously claims it’s the be-all-end-all, even though it doesn’t make sense and cannot be replicated to prove it’s reality. It is my opnion, that Christians and other religious zealots don’t want to look at the evidence too closely because they would see that religion is all hogwash. You are too afraid of eternal damnation for even thinking god isn’t real, just by questioning it’s existence. (at least it was for me, but I got over it)
You folks seem to be quite human in your responses, which is contrary to claims of divinity after “accepting Christ”. In other words, you are no different than the rest of us heathens; we just stopped allowing the brainwashing to hold us hostage.
Hey! It hyperlinked itself! Who knew?!