Today, an Evangelical man named Ryan (who used a fake email address) left a comment on the post titled Why People Have a Hard Time Leaving the IFB Church Movement. What follows is my response to Ryan.
A couple of thoughts.
You should have stopped here. Alas, you did not, so what follows is my evisceration of your ill-informed, poorly thought-out critique of my life.
John chapter 10 tell us that Jesus is the shepherd and his sheep know his voice… “a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him. (v. 5)” Maybe part of the problem is that some of these IFB churches are full of lost people who do not know the shepherds voice, hence why you were allowed to pastor at one of them.
Ryan, do you seriously think that all the people in all the churches I pastored were unsaved? It is evident that you didn’t bother to read much, if any, of my autobiographical material. Had you done so, you would have learned that I pastored a General Association of Regular Baptist Churches (GARBC) church, two Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) congregations, a Sovereign Grace Baptist church, a Christian Union church, a non-denominational church, and a Southern Baptist congregation. I also preached special meetings for other denominational churches, everything from Freewill Baptist to Assembly of God. Do you really think all these people were unsaved?
Thousands of people heard me preach over the years. I had numerous colleagues in the ministry. Not one of these people, at the time, “discerned” that I was unsaved; that I was a false prophet; that I was a tool of Satan. Either I had everyone deceived, or you don’t know what you are talking about. My money is on the latter.
Further, do you personally know the people I pastored, or me personally, for that matter? That’s a rhetorical question. I know you don’t. Yet, you think it is okay to judge the spiritual condition of thousands of people you don’t know. You don’t know anything about how I have lived my life, my character, or my commitment to preaching the Word of God and ministering to the churches I pastored.
Let me give you a verse to think about: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
I agree with you that the IFB pushes many false doctrines.
And what are those doctrines, exactly? What makes your doctrines right, and theirs wrong? How do you know you are right and everyone else is wrong?
However, the IFB is not the final say on Christianity.
And neither are you, yet you seem to think that you are. Why don’t you “share” your beliefs with me and the readers of this blog so we can have a go at them? Let’s see how sound you are doctrinally. No sect or Christian has a corner on right beliefs. Certainty leads to arrogance, and that is exactly where you are when you say that your beliefs are right, and everyone else’s beliefs are wrong (so much so that their wrong beliefs will land them in Hell).
Turning your back on Christ because of your IFB experience is exactly what the enemy would have you do.
Sigh (please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”). Had you bothered to read my autobiographical material, you would have learned that I pastored my last IFB church seventeen years before I left Christianity. I didn’t leave the faith because of my “IFB experiences.” I left Christianity primarily for intellectual reasons. I came to the conclusion that the Bible was not inerrant or infallible; that Jesus was not divine; that Jesus was not virgin born, nor did he work the miracles attributed to him; that Jesus did not resurrect from the dead.
I am an atheist, so the Christian God is a myth, as is the Devil. I have no “enemy” that has nefarious intentions for me. Well, I take that back. I have interacted with scores of Evangelical Christians who have wished ill will upon me, who are praying God judges or kills me, and who said all sorts of hateful, bigoted, vile things about me, my wife of 44 years, my six children, my thirteen grandchildren, and the non-Christian readers of this blog. Assholes, the lot of them.
I would beg you to reconsider your decision and read God’s word for yourself with an open heart desiring only to know the truth embodied by Jesus Christ.
Double sigh
Ryan, I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I was saved, baptized, and called to preach. I attended a small Bible college where I met my wife, a preacher’s daughter. I spent twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I preached 4,000 sermons. I read and studied the Bible for more than 20,000 hours. I can safely say that I know the Bible inside and out; that it is doubtful that you can tell me something meaningful pertaining to the Bible that I don’t already know. Feel free to try, but I suspect you will quickly learn you are out of your depth.
Supposedly, I am a reprobate; one who has done despite to the Spirit of grace. You implied that I am a servant of Satan. Yet, you think all I need to do is read God’s word for myself (who else would I read it for, Ryan)? Really? Besides, doesn’t the Bible say that the natural (unsaved) man cannot understand the things of God? Doesn’t the burden of my salvation rest on God’s shoulders? I can’t be saved unless your God, Ryan, gives me ears to hear and eyes to see. Salvation is of the Lord, right? No man can come to God unless the Spirit draws him. If you want me to be saved, I suggest you take it up with God. He knows where I live. He knows my email address and cellphone number. Come get me Jesus, I’m ready. How about dinner at 5 pm at Applebee’s?
My mind is wide open, Ryan. Feel free to provide me with compelling evidence that Christianity is true; evidence that I have not already considered. I seriously doubt such evidence is forthcoming. I have carefully weighed the claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting.
I am not trying to be impolite, but it is evident, at least to me, that you didn’t do your homework. Did you really think your comment would do anything other than annoy me? I suggest you never ever take this approach with a stranger on the Internet again. All you have done is remind the readers of this blog why they are glad that they are no longer Evangelical Christians.
All praise be to Loki.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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We had a sibling holiday meal today. Family converge in Lima, Ohio from several areas to meet in a geographical center, so to speak. And my sister-in-law said it was too bad people can’t just talk to people with different ideas. But when you have a judgmental person like Ryan, nothing is left to be said. Ryan doesn’t care about Bruce’s feelings. All he cares about is inflicting his poor ideas of his god on others. What a waste.
Ryan, like many former devout x-tians, I was, like Bruce, totally focussed on evangelism for decades. Name a type of outreach, and I’ll have tried it. And you know what? Over the years, we brought many to jesus. But I’m now de-converted – which a troll once told me True X-tians never, ever do, ergo, I was the fake kind. So does that mean hubby and I led folk into false doctrines that’ll get ’em tipped into hell with me? Here’s the thing though, if god saw my 24/7 devotion, my earnest evangelistic efforts to tell heathens they needed to repent….and I WAS DOING IT ALL WRONG…..then why the HECK didn’t he tell me so? One word from him and I’d have corrected my mistakes and changed to his approved methods in an instant.
Matilda–Great question. If there is a “right” way to “be saved,” study the Bible or witness to people, why doesn’t God reveal it clearly and unambiguously? Why does every sect believe theirs is the only “right” way?
“You need to read the Bible for yourself.”
“You can read the Bible, but you can’t truly understand it without guidance from the Holy Spirit.”
“God saves whomever he will.”
“You choose not to be saved.”
“God gives us free will.”
“God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.”
“God created everything, and it was good.”
“I (God) make peace, and create evil.” Isaiah 45:7
Yeah ok, you can find justification in the Bible for just about any stance you want. This is one of the reasons people leave fundamentalist Christianity. Other reasons include, but are not limited to, the problem of evil; that observable evidence doesn’t support a lot of things stated to be fact in the Bible; hypocrisy of people supposedly indwelling by the Holy Spirit; bigotry, misogyny, and racism supported by Bible verses; Christian Nationalism; anti-science sentiment and anti-intellectualism among fundamentalist Christians.
Read the Bible with an open heart? What does that mean? Does it mean read the Bible with a pre-conceived notion that it is the source of universal truth?
The letter writer explained it thusly: “desiring only to know the truth embodied by Jesus Christ”. That’s just how I did read the Bible many times-desiring to know the truth. But…… things changed when I stopped reading the “truth” already planted in my mind by church tradition into the those words.
Reading the Bible with an “open mind” is far more informative. That is part of what is leading me through deconstruction.
“Read the Bible with an open heart” = “Read the Bible until you believe what I believe.” How disingenuous, Ryan.
Wow. I would say I’m amazed that you still get messages like this, but then I remember that people don’t care to read more than about 1/2 of your posts before they go off on whatever they go off on. I did laugh at the last comment from JW about reading with an open mind. Yep, that’s what led me to deconstruction as well.
Are you sure Ryan is a grown man? His writing sounds like that of a naive high school student who is merely parroting the pulpit musings of his pastor? I wonder whether he has ever read the Holy Bible you have already read through numerous times. Maybe he would like to come over to my blog for a long visit https://faith17983.wordpress.com/ How about it Ryan? Come on over and read yourself blue in the face after you are finished at Bruce’s blog. Marry Christmas tooya!!!
I cannot wait to see if we hear from him again. Now we could rewrite his letter with the “invisible pink unicorn” everywhere it says god and send it back to him. 🤣