Dr. David Tee, who is neither a doctor nor a Tee, has long objected to the Black Collar Crime Series. Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, has written several posts about my Black Collar Crime posts. Here’s what he said in his latest post on the subject (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
We read BG’s response to our black collar crime series article. .He is lucky that we are not litigious in nature and do not strike back at those who not only distort what we have said but libel and slander us.
But he says things the way he does because he is a first-class narcissist who needs to be seen as the victim 100% of the time. If he wasn’t that way his posts would be written vastly different than they are being written.
He just doesn’t get it. No one needs his black collar crime series. Everyone that needs to know already knows about what some pastors do. There is no need to pile on and add misery to those who are already miserable.
Of course, if you read that series, you will find that BG does not present one legitimate solution to the problem. Instead, he spends his time attacking us as we are providing the framework for a solution to ministers going and gone bad.
We would prefer that those men not join the ministry until they allow Jesus to heal them of their problems. But since they do not postpone their answer to their calling, we must deal with the problem within the church.
The secular world does not have a solution for the problems these men face and instead of embarrassing and humiliating pastors, they should just remain silent trusting that church officials will be led by God to handle the problems correctly.
….
They [rapist, predator, abusive preachers] have sinned and come short of the glory of God, just like the rest of us. Christ is there for them as he is for all of us. We are no better even if we did not commit such worldly sins as the bible tells.
Those men are no worse than any one of us and deserve a second chance. Where would any of us be if we were not given 2nd, 3rd, or 14 chances by God?
As you may have noticed we are not saying much about BG and his black collar crime series as that rant is not worth discussing. The author of those words doesn’t speak the truth and offers no legitimate reason for it to exist.
We have said the worst we are going to say about the owner of that website and series. As all he can do is distort, libel, and slander. It is not worth getting into a war of words over.
But since it does exist, that series does provide us with a starting point to provide direction for those Christians who may have condemned and judged those men or do not know what ministry they should do.
We should not judge nor condemn those men because that is not our duty. We are not better than them and we do need to find a way to solve their problems BEFORE they get themselves into trouble.
….
We have not changed one word of what we said in the article on the black collar series. That series is a useless effort that does not help anyone.
According to Thiessen, if a preacher commits a sex crime, he is not disqualified from serving in the ministry; that God forgives them (how does he know this?) and we should too. And therein is the fundamental problem: unconditional forgiveness. No matter what a person does, God forgives him. All he needs to do, according to 1 John 1:9, is repent and ask for forgiveness. Rape a child? Repent and ask for forgiveness. Sexually assault a teenager? Repent and ask for forgiveness. Molest children? Repent and ask for forgiveness. Manipulate a woman who is under your care so she will have sex with you? Repent and ask for forgiveness. No matter how heinous the crime, all an offending preacher needs to do is shoot a prayer up to Jesus and he will immediately wipe your sin slate clean. Awesome, right? No matter what a preacher does — even two, three, or fourteen times, according to Thiessen — forgiveness is but a prayer away.
I know several Evangelical preachers who refuse to run background checks on workers in their churches. Why? Whatever these workers might have done — including sexually molesting and assaulting children — is in the past, covered by the blood of Jesus and buried in the deepest sea to be never remembered again. If God has forgiven them, so should their fellow church members.
How hard can it be to say to prospective clerics: if you commit a sex crime, you are no longer fit to serve as a pastor — period? If you are a registered sex offender, you are no longer fit to serve as a pastor — period. Sexually molesting and abusing children, sexually assaulting teenagers, and taking sexual advantage of church women (or men) should be immediately, and forever, disqualifying. That it is not in many corners of the Evangelical world is troubling, to say the least.
Sexual predators cannot be “cured.” We can have a long discussion about pedophilia, but the fact remains that predators typically re-offend; that children are NOT safe around them. Some predators should be locked up without the possibility of parole. Others should have strict limitations put on them, including forbidding them from having contact with children and other vulnerable people. Next to the finality of murder, sex crimes leave some of the deepest, most long-lasting scars on victims/survivors. Doubt me? Scores of victims/survivors read this blog. Ask them how being sexually violated has affected their lives. Untold harm, heartache, and loss, yet the Derrick Thiessens of the world ignore the harm caused by predators, choosing instead to “forgive” offenders and send them back into the ministry so they can “prey” again.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I forgot, didn’t Dr T have some shady sexual abuse allegations?
‘….I know several Evangelical preachers who refuse to run background checks on workers in their churches.’ That’s jaw-dropping to me in the UK where our laws are very strict about this and any adult working with children in any capacity has to be checked. It’s automatic to us – like putting on your seat belt as you get into your car – never to be alone with a child in any circumstances. When I ran a Sunday School class in a very small church, I might only have 2 attendees, 8yo twins whose mum was a good friend. But I obeyed the letter of the law and asked another adult to sit in with me. A couple of older members of the congregations told me they’d really enjoyed these sessions. When you’ve sat and listened to sermons week in week out for decades, this was a refreshing change maybe. And decades ago, hubby and I would each drive children home after a kids club, using our two cars. That had to stop when the new laws came in, it wasn’t always possible to find a second adult to come in the car too.
The last three churches I pastored had insurance through companies that required background checks. No checks, no liability coverage for sex crimes.
The whole saga is just so sad. Bottom line, David has no sympathy for victims of violent crimes, even when those victims are children. He expects them to forgive their abusers, no matter the life-long trauma that can arise from these situations. He just doesn’t care for how it renders them.
Today, he said that offenders are “victims.” OMG! Really?
Well, given what we know, I’m not surprised.
“But he says things the way he does because he is a first-class narcissist who needs to be seen as the victim 100% of the time.”
I suppose Thiessen has never heard the saying “Every accusation is a confession.”
😀 I was thinking something similar, Fiveacres. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see DDT himself in the BCC series someday.
Thanks, Bruce. Wise words indeed. Report such to the authorities immediately. Then the church should take seriously the words of the Bible which really none of these evangelical, fundamentalist churches do. Castaway means something from Paul. Predators of children with the millstone around their neck, according to Jesus. Yes, forgiveness if true repentance, but not reinstatement. Adultery might be a different matter, depending. But again, I have warned even my own family who currently don’t necessarily profess Christian faith to avoid churches, most anyhow, and sadly, for good reason. I write here as a person of faith, myself.
David Tee, here’s the solution for sexually abusive clergy – STOP SEXUALLY ABUSING PEOPLE. If they don’t stop, CONVICT THEM AND LOCK THEM UP. There’s nothing narcissistic in that.
Thiessen continues to rage against me and the Black Collar Crimes series. Here’s his latest post. Note what he says about “victims.” In his mind, offenders become victims.
https://theologyarchaeology.wordpress.com/2023/12/13/someone-has-to-do-it/
The thing I possibly dislike most about Tee is his total lack of humility. He doesn’t for a second stop and ponder the possibility he might be wrong (unlike any real academic), and his only argument against the many logical refutations there are of his writing is that they aren’t heeding the word of God.
Yep. If memory serves, Mike Warnke once boasted to his audience, “I don’t need to consider the other side’s arguments, because I’m right.”
“The secular world does not have a solution for the problems these men face and instead of embarrassing and humiliating pastors, they should just remain silent trusting that church officials will be led by God to handle the problems correctly.“
Yes “Dr.” Tee, just like my own church did for decades. And you know what made the Catholic Church change its practice? Exposure. Ridicule. Civil Liability. Bankruptcy. Loss of massive numbers of members. All thanks to the intervention of “worldly” institutions like the media, government agencies, civil and criminal courts, etc.
Now we are finding out that the churches of the SBC, IFB as well as the uber-cool coffee-house hipster “yay-Jesus!” evangelical churches have sexual abuse scandals on par with the Catholic Church. Except now, their victims aren’t having any of it anymore. Now, the pervert pastors who for decades convinced their victims and their families that “I’m not the dummy you’re the dummy” 1984-thought police style are actually being arrested, put in jail, prosecuted and sentenced to prison, etc.
When Jesus said, “You are the salt of the world”, he also said what happens to “salt” that loses its value- it is trampled down. Not “restored” so that it can ruin more food. Not “prayed for” by the other bags of salt.
Confession and Absolution belong to the religious realm. But these sacraments do not eliminate the consequences of horrible behavior in this life.
I’m sure if one of your followers made a commitment to help your ministry, especially financially, and then repeatedly failed to honor their agreement, and further also began stealing your “donations”, you would demand justice, or at least your money that was owed. If this persons conduct prevented you from buying that new car you needed for your “ministry”, you would probably even want retribution.
So now imagine a woman who was molested by a person she trusted since childhood. Someone she told things to that she didn’t tell her parents. Someone who manipulated her into sex in his office and then more than 25 years later made a public spectacle by “confessing” to an “affair” so he could get the applause and hand waiving prayer from his followers. And the response of the church elders, the “gatekeepers” is “he confessed and was forgiven. Now you must confess your role in tempting him (when you were 16) and do penance”. And if she goes to the police? Or even complains? Then she is ostracized. The perpetrator goes on to become Bishop. And writes a best-selling book about how to grow a mega church.
In your ideal world this would have been the outcome at New Life Christian Church in Indiana. Instead, the Pastor’s victim found the courage to confront him midway through his performance on stage. Thanks to “evil” social media, and mean old “BG”, this story went viral. The Pastor is no longer a Pastor, and more abuse became known. The Pastor is being investigated by State Police. He will most likely never write that best-seller, and most importantly never Pastor another church that is concerned about its reputation. And the victim has found her confidence, and is inspiring other women to come forward.
This is how a culture of abuse is ended.
John, if I may, I’d love to quote you in an upcoming post?
Hi Ben- most certainly! It would be an honor and privilege.
Thank you John, I’ve now shared your wisdom: https://meerkatmusings.co.uk/a-wise-rebuttal/
That Tee- bagger has some things in his own past in America, that he’s keeping hidden, no doubt. So of course by now I expect him to come to the defense of perpetrators. He really identifies with these characters being exposed in the Black Collar Series, doesn’t he !